Roster Construction

by talonk on Apr 29, 2008 12:10 PM EDT

Based on what we drafted this year, it looks like we are going to be heavy on TE, LB, and DL going into next season.

Does this help our Special Teams a lot? We had good special teams last year, and I expect a lot of the guys drafted not to crack the starting line-up, so they have to play on special teams right?

Also, let's say Rucker pans out as a good receiving TE this season (going four wide with him, KW, BE, and DS). And let's also say that Quinn finally becomes the starter by the end of the year.

Does this mean Savage would have two valuable trading chips in DA and KW going into next offseason? What would the cap hits be if we dealt them both? How many multiple picks would we get for each? (My best guess is a 2nd and 5th for DA and a 1st and 3rd for for KW, but that is purely a guess)

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Doubtful

I do not think the Browns are heavy at any position. Heiden, Winslow and Irons are only TE’s on roster before Rucker was signed. Rucker is Winslow’s replacement. I love Kellan but he has yet to make it through a full season of play and more importantly has never been healthy once off season has started. No way we get a 1st and 3rd for him. He will not be traded. Other teams know of his situation and that is why he wants more $$$ now. He and Savage know that he has MAYBE 2 years left in his body. I would put about 25% on Kellan being a Cleveland Brown or in football for that matter in 2009.

As for Anderson.. what happens IF the Browns start out 0-4 or 1-3…. the fans will be screaming for Brady and we just wasted an opportunity to get quality draft picks for Anderson. That is one way to look at it, but I disagree. 60+ QB’s started last season and since we all know there are only 32 teams that means that many QB’s got knocked around. Brady is making next to nothing and so I am cool with keeping both of them on the roster through 2009…...............
Only problem: You know as well as I do that Brady will look better in camp this July which will make things even more complicated…. The Browns can in no way shape or form bench Anderson after giving him 20 million… this kills his trade stock….....

In the end – tougher schedule but Browns win 9 or 10 games and make it as a wildcard with Anderson as QB. Kellan only plays 10 games and Rucker steps in as starter.
And finally, if the above happens then that means Anderson at age 25 has led us to two straight seasons of 10 wins so we have to trade Quinn and get (hopefully) a 2nd and a 4th or maybe a 2nd and 3rd for him where we can address the backup spot.

Agree? Disagree?

by AaronD on Apr 29, 2008 1:01 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Kellen’s made it through a full season each of the last two years.

He’s 24. He’ll be a Brown in 2011, let alone 2009. Now, his skills may deteriorate, but your analysis of our Pro Bowl tight end is highly reactionary and approaching comical, considering it’s based on a 4th round pick.

by kwoog on Apr 29, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

AND ANOTHER THING: Why would the Browns trade UP for a TE? They wanted this guy bad because he had a 2nd round rating in thier minds AND Heiden just surgery and will probably get staph and die within the next 4 months…...

Rucker will be the TE starter for the 2009 season with or without Pro Bowler Kellan on the team.

by AaronD on Apr 29, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

haha, re: “staph and die” comment.

i just think the idea that he’ll be ahead of Kellan on the depth chart is nuts. i know they traded up, i know he was in the initial 12 Offensive guys that Savage had earmarked in the fall. I just think that there’s plenty of room on the roster for both and that your projections, though based on valid long term concerns, are way off… by two seasons at the very least.

by kwoog on Apr 29, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

What is wrong with adding depth? if Savage thinks that Rucker is going to be a player, I have no problem with trading up and getting a guy that Savage coveted.

Depth is the most important factor in constructing a team. Hopefully Rucker can develop into a weapon that Chud can find uses for. Remember, Chud was a TE coach and likes using them in his offense.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 29, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Oh, there is nothing wrong with depth. If anything, that’s exactly the point I’m making. Appreciating depth is why having Rucker is good, even if K2 plays at a high level for another 5 seasons. I was only trying to point out that drafting Rucker doesn’t have to mean Savage is trying to find a replacement for one of our best players.

by kwoog on Apr 29, 2008 10:34 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

What do you consider “quality” draft picks for Anderson?

Everything I read on the national level said that there was little interest in Anderson, especially for the 1st and 3rd round price. Regardless of somebody’s stance on whether it should be Quinn or Anderson at the helm, you cannot give away a capable QB without getting great value in return, and apparently, it wasn’t out there.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Apr 29, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

From what I have read Dallas was prepared to sign him to the tender giving us a first and a third and then proceed to trade him to Baltimore. I am confident there was a market for Derek

by Roger Dorn on Apr 30, 2008 8:37 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Are you thinking about this?

Let’s sit back and consider what Savage has done during his tenure with the Browns, and then ask yourself this: Would he really resign Anderson to a bigger deal than previously offered just to prevent Dallas from trading him? Secondly, do you think he really believed this scenario and would admit to it?

The Browns would have received the 1st and 3rd round picks they were rumored to be seeking in a trade. Should the Cowboys have signed him, giving the Browns the compensation picks, and then traded him to the Dolphins, then who cares? As for the rumored trade to the Ravens, this only went as far as one of PFT Florio’s “league sources” as a mere suggestion. If you think the Browns coaching staff doesn’t see the same flaws in D.A. that many of us do, and could therefore gameplan against D.A. to a tee, then why worry about him landing back in the AFC North?

If there truly was a market for D.A. as lucrative as we’d like to believe, then D.A. wouldn’t be a Cleveland Brown today.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Apr 30, 2008 9:29 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I have thought about it for the very reasons you pointed out and I still come to the conclusion that even if they viewed Anderson as a flawed QB, they would rather up their offer than let him somehow end up on an intradivision rival, the Ravens. The Dolphins rumor for me makes far less sense.

I don’t really read PFT, so maybe I had heard this from someone who had read Florio’s article, but I do think Savage for certain would not want DA to be a Raven even given the appropriate compensation.

by Roger Dorn on Apr 30, 2008 1:17 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Kellan has played through considerable pain every year in uniform. He is a 1st round pick and has played like one. He cannot be demanding more moeny right now just for the hell of it… Even with Rosehaus as an agent, Kellan is making plenty of money and it is solely about his playing days being numbered.
I never said that Rucker would be as good or better than Kellan. Not many teams take a TE in the top 10 of the draft. The Browns did and Kellan was worth it – very solid player. But Rucker should be able to step in and play respectable as TE’s go.

As for Anderson. There will definitely be teams calling Savage if he wins 10 games again…. so the verdict would be out on him and he would not still have that potential “bust” associated with him.

by AaronD on Apr 29, 2008 2:07 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Matt Schaub was worth 2 second rounders and a switch of firsts. If DA doesn’t totally crap the bed, there will be a market for a mid-20’s pro bowl QB.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 29, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Guys ask for more money “for the hell of it,” literally, all the time. I honestly can’t think of a more prevalent off-the-field activity of athletes.

by kwoog on Apr 29, 2008 2:13 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

True… So you are not the least bit worried about his body? He takes a beating and it is irrelavent that he is 24. With all the surgeries and hits he has taken he is approaching 35 years old.

I hope he plays for 10 years but there has to be some reason why we wanted Rucker so badly.

by AaronD on Apr 29, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

we wanted Rucker so badly b/c we rated him as a 2nd rounder, regardless of position.

even if Kellen just “plays” 7 years, we’ve got him for another 5. If he’s only in the league 7 years (5 seasons on the field), we’ve got him for another 3 (ie, until 2011).

yes, i’m concerned about his body. but in week 16, did you see a different Kellen than week 1? was he not getting open and making plays? in the end, i think the contract stuff has more to do about getting paid/recupping some of the $ he (deservedly) lost after the moto accident, than his impending physical deterioration.

by kwoog on Apr 29, 2008 2:28 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

i swear i hit “reply”, sorry

by kwoog on Apr 29, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Ok, let me add to what I meant to say. I am not advocating trading DA or KW.

However, IF BQ ends up starting (and playing well), I really don’t think DA will be content being the backup in 09. So what could Savage conceivably get for him next offseason in that regard and what would be the cap hit for trading him?

Also, if Rucker comes in and plays well, AND next offseason KW starts clamoring for more $$ (I believe he has already laid the groundwork for that this year), would it be conceivable to deal KW for draft picks and what kind of cap hit would that get?

Again, I am not expecting either to happen, but if we deal DA and KW next offseason, we could load up with draft picks (which NE always seems to be doing) and instead of only having 5 draft picks (no 3 and no 5 next year already), we could end up with more. Once we are on the plus side of the ledger of draft picks, it would be easier to deal up (without sacrificing future year picks like we are doing now) and easier to drop down to continue stockpiling young talent. We can’t keep going after free agents every offseason like we have for the past 2+ years. We won’t have the cap space for it.

by talonk on Apr 29, 2008 3:02 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

If I remember correctly, the cap hit to trade DA would not be huge. A large chunk of his contract is tied up in roster bonus money.

If he is traded before next years roster bonus of 5 million dollars (which is after next years draft I believe), whoever traded for him would be on the hook for that.

After that I believe that you would divide his signing bonus by three (The number of years on the contract) and add up what would be left (The acceleration part of the penelty), then subtract out his salary (since he would be paid by team X not the Browns) and that would be his cap hit. Not much if my ramblings here are correct.

Something like 4.6 million (Bonus) – 3.3 million (I am guessing at his salary, but I think this is close to correct) = 1.3 Million dollar cap hit, which would be worth it if they were getting numerous picks back.

Last I looked, the Browns were projected to have somewhere near 30 million dollars in cap space next year due to thier creative uses of funny bonus incentives.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 29, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I was under the impression that it would be easy to trade Derek after year 1 of the contract, but admittingly am not all that familiar with his contract details

by Roger Dorn on Apr 30, 2008 8:38 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

I remember the same thing

by NickFantana on Apr 30, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

It would be. The cap hit would not be huge

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 30, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Its spelled "Kellen"

We moved up to draft a proven guy who was an effective weapon against the top competition in college. It doesn’t matter where he plays. In fact, the Browns just reportedly signed what could be another TE (or fullback) in West Texas A&M’s Kolo Kapanui.

Teams do this all the time (see: Dallas Cowboys drafting Fasano and Bennett with Witten already on board). This is a guy who isn’t really young enough to “replace” Winslow. I know Winslow has a lot of wear an tear on that knee, but he has been a pro bowl caliber TE for two years in a row now. He isn’t going to fall off the map instantaneously. Rucker is talented, but not nearly as talented as K2. People have to gameplan around K2. We can’t just trade a guy like that away, especially because he was a major part of bringing the Browns back to respectability.

Plus, we can use these guys all at the same time. If we come out in an I formation with Kellen, Rucker, Braylon (out wide), and our favorite Jerome Harrison lining up behind Vickers, teams would be forced to put 8 guys in the box, and play their base D (4-3 or 3-4). Then, we could motion to a shotgun formation with Vickers next to DA, Kellen and Braylon out wide, and Rucker and Harrison in the slot. That’s a defensive nightmare! Covering Kellen with a CB and Harrison with an LB are absurd mismatches, and my guess is that Rucker can get open on most SLB’s as well. Plus, Vickers can also catch the ball. The hardest part about doing this would be convincing someone to put Harrison on the field. They can play together. Trust me, if I can do it, Chud can do it. He was TE himself, and a TE coach, so he knows how to use these guys.

It’s exciting to have less obviously cut-able players on the roster. I would assume that K. Wright is gone, but we still need another CB that can play. We have some expendable players at LB, but then where do we look? Are we actually starting to assemble talent?

by rufio on Apr 29, 2008 5:27 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Thanks. “Kellan” was bothering the hell out of me.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Apr 30, 2008 9:31 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Not only are we assembling talent, but for the first time since they’ve been back in the league, we’re assembling quality depth.

Rex Hadnot
Lennie Friedman
Leon Williams
Daven Holly/Brandon McDonald
Joe Jurevicius
Shaun Smith
Brady Quinn

These are all second year players that will not (by my best guess) be in the starting lineup against Dallas. All of these players would have been starters the first year that Phil and Romeo took over. To discuss how talented the Browns are, the first way to assess it is to look at the multitude of positions at which they have an above replacement-level player second on a depth chart. That’s how you’re continuously successful in the NFL.

by NickFantana on Apr 30, 2008 10:21 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs