08 Season Outlook

Most Improved Player: Leon Williams. I think he’ll be the one to really create havoc in the backfield with the revamped front seven. 7+ sacks

Most Disappointing Player: Winslow. He’s one of my favorite players, a real Joey Belle, but I think the knee catches up with him and he loses time. If he’s healthy, though, I think McDonald. He’s going to get abused by whichever PIT/CIN WR he’s tasked with covering.

Most surprising unit on team: LBs. They may finally become a disruptive force under Tucker and behind this new line.

Most disappointing unit on team: DL. I think I’ll be very happy with their play, but they’ll go relatively unheralded because they won’t pile up stats. Everyone knows the secondary is think and so expectations are low.

Record for season: 9-7

Over, or under?

Anderson’s season QB rating: 84 Over, but not by much.

Stallworth’s receiving yards: 750 Over, and he’s the reason for the over above.

Wimbley’s sacks: 7.5 Under, he get’s double teamed again all year.

Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones Total Interceptions: 17.5 Over. I think much like the 06 Bungles, interceptions are a hallmark of this team’s success (largely due to front seven disruption). The picks are what save this unit from being disastrous.

by danvail on Jul 22, 2008 1:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

MIP: 3 way tie:
Jerome Harrison figures out special teams and finally gets in games to provide a change of pace to Lewis.
Travis Wilson carries his offseason momentum over in to the season, actually plays, and doesn’t drop everything thrown at him.
Eric Wright in his 2nd season now has the confidence and experience to allow his ridiculous athletic ability to take over.

Most disappointing player: I would go with Brandon McDonald here, but to be disappointing you must have failed to live up to expectations. My expectations for McDonald are very low. I would like to think no one will disappoint, but if I have to pick I will say Jamal Lewis, simply because expectations for him are pretty ridiculously high. If he fails to rush for over 1300 yds and 7TDs he is going to look bad, even though any year before 2008 Browns fans would have taken 1200 and 6TDs in a heartbeat.

Most surprising unit on team: I will take the LBs because they get a bump from the DL being better. Would any unit besides the LBs or DBs playing well really surprise anyone? Not me. And I just won’t pick the DBs to surprise. They might, but I am not betting on it.

Most disappointing unit on team: DBs. I think they are going to let a lot of people get a lot of yards.

Record: 9-7, winning the AFC North.

Anderson’s QB rating: over, but barely. We are talking 85 or 86.

Stallworth’s Rec yards: Under, by a decent amount. 600.

Wimbley’s sacks: Over. Way over. 12.

Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones INTs: Under. Waahayhayhayhayaaaaaaaaaay under. We are hearing a lot of “bend don’t break” and a lot of “Cover 2” coming out of press conferences. I pray that they don’t play soft zone coverage all day a la Ohio State, where Mel Tucker learned the ropes. It just won’t work against the QBs we play. Vince Young can run, Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Tony Romo, Little Ben, and Donovan McNabb will tear that up. I would love for us to get creative in sending people at the QB, but I don’t see it happening. I see the secondary making too many tackles and too few plays on the ball. Except Wright.

by rufio on Jul 22, 2008 2:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Most Improved Player: Wimbley, 13+ sacks, pro bowler

Most Disappointing Player: Edwards. Not a bad year, but he has “only” 10 TDs and fewer receptions than last year.

Most surprising unit on team: Secondary. Insanely talented, 2, maybe 3 potential probowlers back there. By midseason people will have totally forgotten that this was the off season “trouble” spot.

Most disappointing unit on team: Linebackers or Offensive line. LB b/c they only have two legitimate starters (Wimbley and Jackson). OL b/c this is not a pound-you-down line. They are great technicians/pass protectors, but they are not elite run/power blockers. This will hurt on everthing from short yardage situations to late year poor weather games.

Record for season: 11-5

Anderson’s season QB rating: 84
I agree, over, but barely

Stallworth’s receiving yards: 750
Under

Wimbley’s sacks: 7.5
Way over, and with good odds I’d consider taking double the over (15)

Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones Total Interceptions: 17.5
Under. Corners are great, stick-to-you-like-glue cover guys, not flashy chance takers.

by kwoog on Jul 22, 2008 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

OL?

You might have sold me based on the argument that everyone is calling them the best unit in the NFL and that it will be a hard expectation to live up to. Maybe you might have sold me on the fact that Ryan Tucker has a broken hip (don’t you need gray hair to get one of those?) and that one of our key backups in Seth McKinney hasn’t finished a season healthy in quite some time.

But you are trying to tell me that our OL will disappoint because they aren’t good? It seemed to me that Jamal Lewis was running pretty well when there was snow on the ground last year. In weeks 12-17 last year, Jamal Lewis put up:
134
62
118
163
92
and 128 yards.

That 62 yard game? It was in Arizona. They play in a dome, and Arizona seems like it would be a nice place to be when the Lake Effect is hitting Northeast Ohio. The 92 yard game? That was the Cincinnati game, and we all should know by now that we should have handed it off to him more that day. How about 163 in an 8-0 win against Buffalo in the snow? That game it was like Beanie Wells vs. michigan: everyone knew Lewis was getting the ball, and no one could stop him. All I can remember from the NYJ 118yd game is Jamal Lewis getting free and running over ~6 guys en route to the end zone…in the snow. How is the OL so bad in bad weather games? Please explain.

by rufio on Jul 22, 2008 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My point wasn’t that they will be bad in poor weather. My point was that this is an excellent pass protection line, but that as far as run blocking goes they are less skilled. Now, they still may be top 10 in football at it, but this is not the best run blocking line in the league. Steinbach, Fraley and even Thomas are not maulers… If it’s third and three and everyone in the building knows it’s a run, they can be stopped. So late in the year when we’re playing the front 7s of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh in those conditions, and not Buffalo and the Jets, I think this may be exposed.

by kwoog on Jul 23, 2008 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m sorry man, you still have to own up to this:

“This will hurt on everthing from short yardage situations to late year poor weather games.”

Steinbach isn’t a mauler, but there is a reason he has been to the Pro Bowl. He still can run block. Just because teams don’t do it by hitting you in the mouth doesn’t mean they can’t run the ball. Teams like Denver and Atlanta (in previous years) have built their running game on having smaller, quicker Olinemen. Hopefully we can figure out a way to get our line to the point where if it is 3rd or 4th and anything less than a full 2 yards, we can just hand the ball off and it is automatic. I agree with you, I don’t think we are there yet. We don’t have a Jacksonville-type run blocking line, but do we need one? Only time will tell.

Philly’s front 7 is really good, but they are built to rush the passer, not to stop the run. ESPN has one guy on the whole DL listed at over 300lbs. That is Brodrick Bunkley at 306. I think we will run the ball just fine in that game if we can keep Philly off the scoreboard enough to be able to run consistently. If we are playing catchup all day and have to continually pass, we will be playing into the strength of their DL.

Pittsburgh’s line is going to be pretty good. Casey Hampton is a handful at NT, which is one of the reasons I wish it would have worked out between LCB and the Browns. Plus, as Chris pointed out in some of his training camp position previews, Jamal Lewis has struggled against pittsuck while in Cleveland. Maybe we can go with a lot of unbalanced line with Joe Thomas as the TE. Maybe we can play some pony backfield with Jerome Harrison, maybe Jamal Lewis will simply be able to get it done, but no matter how it happens, I just hope we can run the ball in that game. Then again, it didn’t matter last year in the second pitt game of the year. Jamal Lewis only ran for 35 yards, and other people stepped up and we still only lost by 3. Obviously we can’t count on Cribbs having 100yd return TDs, but even after playing so poorly, we almost found a way to win. Great teams just find ways to win, no matter the style.

by rufio on Jul 23, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Most improved player: Eric Wright and Travis Wilson
Most disappointing player: Joe Jurevious sounds like a logical choice right now
Most surprising unit: Secondary (expectations are low but they are young and hungry)
Most disappointing unit: The kicking game, Dawson has no leg and Z wasn’t good last year.
Record: 10-6 North champs
Anderson: 84.1, so, over I guess
Stallworth: well below 750, 650 or less unfortunately
Wimbley: Over 7.5 closer to 10 a huge year for him!
Secondary: Under for just those 4, but linebackers and nickel backs will add to it.

by bellar on Jul 22, 2008 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Most Improved Player: Eric Wright

Most Disappointing Player: Eric Wright. I’ll explain that. I think Wright will improve dramatically but not nearly to the point where he is capable of covering some of the WR’s we will see this year.

Most surprising unit on team: OL. Won’t it be a surprise if a Cleveland o-line is good two years in a row? I think the defensive line will also be quite good.

Most disappointing unit on team: LB’s

Record for season: 8-8. 9-7 if everything goes very well.

Over, or under?

Anderson’s season QB rating: 84. Over, but not by much.

Stallworth’s receiving yards: 750 Under, but still a good year.

Wimbley’s sacks: 7.5 Underish, hard to tell on this one. I think that the whole line will do well, which will keep Wimbley from getting monster numbers.

Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones Total Interceptions: 17.5 Under. Sean Jones and Brodney Pool will produce but the Wright/McDonald combo will struggle.

Proud supporter of the Cleveland.

by fwembt on Jul 22, 2008 5:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’m surprised at all the pessimism concerning our secondary, even though I know, I know, it’s all most “analysts” talk about (and even I admit depth at corner is a problem). But the starting 4? I’m gonna try and ease your minds a bit… If you’re curious, here are some comments I made on the Steelers SBN site, defending the Browns secondary (and citing a few football analysts I respect, like KC Joyner and Matt Williamson).

For what it’s worth, Joyner often says that he’s trying to do something similar in football as what Bill James did baseball. And Williamson is from and lives in PGH, and openly roots for them. So I think they’re pretty credible sources.

by kwoog on Jul 22, 2008 7:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't care about "analysts".

First of all, Baseball and Football are two completely different games. Football stats (even Joyner’s, which I enjoy very much) will always mean less than baseball stats. I respect what Joyner is trying to do and I like some of his stats a lot. However, In Baseball, it is incredibly easy to isolate one on one matchups that affect the game; namely pitcher and hitter. In football, it is almost (if not) impossible. How much does a DB’s game depend on the pass rush? On the WR he is covering? On the opposing QB? The opposing OL? The other eligible receivers in the game?

Second, I am sorry but I just can’t buy in to McDonald becoming a stupendous starter in his 2nd year. He is quick, and has pretty good hands for a DB, and seemed smart enough to be where he needed in zone coverage last year. I don’t see him being able to turn and run with bigger and faster guys on the outside. How is he going to do against Santonio Holmes, Limas Sweed, Terry Glenn, TJ Hooseyomama, Reggie Wayne, Amani Toomer, etc. etc.? I love him in the slot, playing mostly underneath and/or zone coverage. I would love to have a bigger, faster guy on the outside. What if TO, Plaxico Burress, Chad Johnson, or Brandon Marshall motion and he has to cover them? Do you like those matchups?

Third, even if the starting 4 play well, we play a lot of teams with wide-open offenses this year. Indianapolis and Cincinnati love to pass the ball. Pittsburgh is going to throw some multiple WR sets at us, Dallas will too, and both of those teams have good receiving TEs. Philadelphia doesn’t exactly play between the tackles, power football. Will an old, short Terry Cousin be able to make things work? What happens if one of the starting 4 get injured? With the coaching staff promising to keep things simpler, will we be able to get enough pressure on the QB to make the DBs look good? Will we be able to confuse some of the great QBs we play this year with simplified schemes? I don’t question the talent of our starting back 4, but the above questions need to be answered before I can feel good about our D, especially the secondary.

by rufio on Jul 22, 2008 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Rec’d for speaking the truth.

Proud supporter of the Cleveland.

by fwembt on Jul 23, 2008 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eh, you guys will see. Nobody’s 4th corner is a star (except maybe the Cowboys), and teams have been spreading the field for decades. Barring injury, the secondary will be fine, and has the upside to be superb.

by kwoog on Jul 23, 2008 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree about the difference of stats in baseball and football. In fact, I wrote about this very thing over a month ago on BTSC. That being said, both Wright and McDonald’s YPA are so good that they are hard to ignore (a point made by Joyner, when he says that they could each go up a couple yards and still be quality starters).

McDonald shut down Andre Johnson last year, and he is light years ahead of any of the first group of receivers you mentioned (seriously, Sweed/Glenn/Toomer? I chuckled at the suggestion one should be intimidated by those guys). And the receivers you mentioned in the last sentence of the second paragraph are all 1s, so Wright will probably be on them the majority of the time anyway.

Finally, concerning the slot, it is a much different task than playing alone out on an island. It requires less raw athletic ability and more experience/football knowledge. This is b/c you’re covering a more cluttered space in the middle of the field, w/ shorter routes. The entire reason McDonald had the chance to shut down Johnson last year was because Wright was injured. In his absence, they put McDonald on one of the very best receivers in all of football, instead of having him play slot. Why? This is because of the difficulty (scheme-wise) of the assignment. Therefore Bodden went inside. And the slot has been Cousin’s “specialty” for many years, including last year when he posted impressive numbers.

by kwoog on Jul 23, 2008 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry dude, I don't go to Steelers web/fansites out of principle.

Sweed: 6’4” McDonald: 5’10”. We should at least be concerned about that in the endzone. You are probably right about Glenn, but only because he is injured. When he isn’t he is way faster than McDonald. Toomer is a hell of a lot bigger than McDonald with 5” and around 20lbs. on him. I brought up specific players to emphasize size and/or speed matchups that may present problems, not necessarily point out a differential in skill level or value (which is something I believe YPA is supposed to do). How he makes up (or tries to make up) that difference in size or speed is what I am interested in, not how good all of those players are perceived to be by anyone.

McDonald shut down Andre Johnson last year when Johnson clearly was not 100%. He tried to come back too soon against New Orleans, and it cost him over the rest of the season, which incidentally cost me a fantasy season. Yes, I made a mistake by not including his name on the list of #1s who might motion over to be covered by McDonald this year and yes, he is a great WR. See the below post on why the DBs might not be on one guy all game.

If you still don’t want to take it from me:

Weaknesses: Doesnt have great bulk and can get pushed around by bigger receivers. Hasnt shown great upper-body strength, doesnt play with enough of a mean streak and should have problems slowing receivers down at the line of scrimmage. Takes too long to open his hips when forced to turn and run downfield and lacks the second gear to recover once receivers get a step on him. Doesnt do a great job of getting his head turned around, lacks ideal body control and has problems locating balls thrown over outside shoulder.

Maybe he has worked on those things and we just don’t know it, but what I am saying is based on what I have seen and what scouts saw from him in college, he hasn’t done enough yet to warrant hype or a whole ton of confidence from anyone. He played pretty well in spot duty, but can he do it the whole year? What about when other teams start looking at ways to beat him? Will he still look as good after he has been scouted and targeted by other teams? I just can’t feel confident about that yet. How does he make up for his lack of measurables? These are questions that need answering before I can feel good about him as our starter. Maybe he answers them this year, but he hasn’t done it yet.

Oh by the way, we won that Houston game in the 2nd half by running the ball when Houston knew we were going to run it, right through their Dline that included 3 first round picks—AND everybody’s new superstar Mario Williams. Time of possesion in the 2nd half: 20:56 to 9:04. You’re right, we can’t run the ball.

by rufio on Jul 23, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude, Andre Johnson is 6’3” (and McDonald is listed at 5’11”, btw). And in the games bracketing the Cleveland game he had 120 and 116 yards, 15 total catches and two touchdowns.

Some two year old scouting report low level analyst who is looking at about 400 possible low level picks is not going to convince me over Joyner’s stats, a pro-level scout who is a PGH homer (Matt Williamson) and a year of seeing it with my own eyes… not to mention the praise from our own front office and even best receiver, who said he wasn’t at all surprised by McDonald’s success b/c he “goes against this guy everday in practice” (Edwards).

For the last time, I didn’t say we couldn’t run the ball. I even said we were top 10. What about that don’t you understand? I simply said they would disappoint, which in part is based on the unit being slightly overrated (at least in the run game).

by kwoog on Jul 23, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

McDonald is listed at 5’10” on the Browns’s official website, but if you need that kind of victory or something over some random guy on the internet, congrats, you just won.

Look, there are questions in my mind as to McDonald’s ability. Nothing you or anyone else can say will answer those. Nothing but solid play on the field on game day will. There is no point in trying to convince me. I get it, you like him. He still needs to prove himself to me before I buy in AND there are other people who don’t buy in for one reason or another too. You wanted to know why there was pessimism, I told you. What do you want from me? “Oh man, I totally agree with you now and feel 100% positive about the secondary!”? It is going to take at least a few days of camp and a preseason game to get me to that point.

You: Why all the pessimism regarding the secondary?
Me: I just can’t buy in to McDonald yet because he hasn’t played/started a whole season and there are questions regarding his play, plus depth after him is unproven at best.
You: McDonald played well when he was asked to last year, especially for one game
Me: He still hasn’t sold me based on one whole season. He will have to make up for a lot of physical disparity which is possible, but hard to do. Teams will scout him harder and find his weaknesses.
You: But he played so well in that one game against a great reciever!
Me: It is still one game, and no one knew who he was. Remember Wimbley last year? People figured him out. He still isn’t proven, and won’t be until the end of the season, period.

by rufio on Jul 23, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You’re ridiculous, and even bad at Strawman Tactics.

by kwoog on Jul 23, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why Chud puts men in motion; matchup problems or reads. Your choice.

When teams motion a receiver over from one side of the formation to the other, they are getting a read on what type of D the opposing team is playing. Lets say Wright is lined up on Johnson set out wide on the offense’s right, and McDonald is on our old friend Andre Davis in the slot on the left side.

Now lets say Houston motions Johnson all the way across to set out wide on the left. If Wright follows him all the way out there, Houston knows we are in man, and that is not good for us.

What should happen at least sometimes is that McDonald should take Johnson all the way out wide, and either Wimbley or Jackson should move out wider to be somewhere over Davis. Now Houston won’t know if we are man or zone, but we have a matchup problem because Wimbley is guarding a WR and Eric Wright a TE.

Typically, this is how “cover 2” D adjusts to a man in motion, and I the only things I have heard out of press conferences is that we will be playing more “cover 2”, and there will be a more simplified defense this year. I am not going to try to predict what we will do on D, but if we truly are playing a base cover 2, we will see a lot of this type of adjustment. Indy does it, Detroit does it, Tampa does it. This will leave McDonald on a #1, and if I were the other team, I would be doing this all day long to throw at him. Hopefully we can mix in both of the above adjustments and maybe even a little:

to keep offenses on their toes. If they have to wait and see what they get when they put someone in motion, the QB might take half a second longer to react or might throw when he isn’t sure what is going on, leading to sacks, delay of game penalties, and INTs for us. Regardless, ESPECIALLY in a cover-2 zone, teams will sometimes leave one DB on one half of the field all game long, no matter what receiver is where which is why we have to trust McDonald to match up against #1 guys at least some of the time.

by rufio on Jul 23, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I appreciate the effort, but I know all this. I was talking about 3+ wide receiver sets, and by “slot” I meant the third CB who is covering the third receiver… the one not lined up out wide like the other two.

If it’s just a two receiver set, I have no problem w/ McDonald going up against any receiver, really, considering the massively improved play from the front 7 and his own skills based on last year’s numbers.

by kwoog on Jul 23, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One decent half of a season does not a starting NFL cornerback make. You cite the Houston game as an example but in that game Houston only ran for 70 yards and only had the ball for 24 minutes. Part of the reason that McDonald did so well was that everyone knew that Houston was going to throw the ball and the Browns defence could just wait for it.

KC Joyner is reallyan unproven commodity at this point. He may want to be Bill James for football but, frankly, he isn’t. It will take more than some YPA to make eight games look like they indicate a tremendous corner. I think all Rufio is saying is that there is reason to doubt our secondary. You can try and dress it up all you like but McDonald and Wright are both unproven and Pool is inconsistent. That’s not a recipie for instant success.

Proud supporter of the Cleveland.

by fwembt on Jul 23, 2008 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you.

At least I make some sense to somebody.

by rufio on Jul 24, 2008 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is literally insanity. I’ve mentioned about 5 other sources besides the “one game.”

Do you guys know how to read?

by kwoog on Jul 24, 2008 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I am somehow a college graduate. Don't ask me how.

But aside from personal attacks-

You just can’t win an argument with me about how I feel. I feel that the secondary is unproven, period. Nothing you can say or do will “win” me over to feel better about that! Nothing! For me to feel better about it, they are going to have to play well for at least the first half of this season, which hasn’t happened yet, so just wait for it to happen and THEN say “I told you so”.

Based on the same games, the same information out there on the internet, the same scouting reports, the same everything, we came away feeling completely different about it. Who cares?

You wanted to know why there was pessimism, I told you why I was pessimistic, and now you think I am an idiot, so just continue thinking I am an idiot. Nothing more needs to be said.

by rufio on Jul 24, 2008 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve never cared about anything less than convincing you of an argument.

I thought we were having a discussion where we might both learn something from each other. Obviously that’s not your intent (“Nothing!”)

So, yes, you are pessimistic for one reason. And I’m optimistic for 5. Case closed, go Browns.

by kwoog on Jul 24, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Asking if you know how to read is no more a personal attack than concocting a ridiculously inaccurate and insulting “recount” of a discourse, ie, your strawman argument.

by kwoog on Jul 24, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rufio’s reason for doubt is gratuitous pessimism, based on a scouting report written by an 80 year old man who watched 15 mins of vcr tape on McDonald when he was 21 at Memphis. That’s the entirety of the actual arguments made against him.

My (reserved) optimisim is based on:
1) Statistics from multiple sources, from Joyner to Football Outsiders.

2) More recent and skilled scouting from the guys at Scouts, in particular Matt Williamson.

3) Watching his play as a rookie, which yes, consisted of shutting down one of the 5 best receivers in the league.

4) Quotes from the front office, from last year to last month, about his athleticism, technique and skills.

5) Quotes from Braylon Edwards and other receivers, who’ve consistently said that this guy lights it up in practice, and needs to get on the field.

by kwoog on Jul 24, 2008 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think that the point we are trying to make is that scouting is inexact. Scouts routinely are wrong. Counting on them is a substantial risk.

As a rookie McDonald was decent. He was not great and, even given it was just one game, Andre Johnson is hardly one of the five best receivers in the league. I already explained how that game wasn’t the McDonald v. Johnson showdown you are portraying it to be.

Of course our front office/players say good things about him. What are they going to say? They also said good things about Charlie Frey, how did that go?

I think that you are so over the moon optimistic that you perceive our bit of guarded realism as pessimism. I don’t think either of us are, we just don’t McDonald as the star you claim he is.

Proud supporter of the Cleveland.

by fwembt on Jul 24, 2008 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s cool. I don’t think I’m over the moon about him. I think that he’ll be a solid #2 cornerback. I just tried to engage in a conversation about why. It’s one of many unknown areas about this team, and all we can do is speculate. I tried to make that speculation based more on arguments than “feelings.”

Afterall, look at the corners NE is throwing out there this year…

by kwoog on Jul 24, 2008 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, agree to disagree. FWIW, I really hope you are right.

Proud supporter of the Cleveland.

by fwembt on Jul 24, 2008 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Most Improved Player: I’ll go with most surprising and say Antwaan Peek. Injured last year and out of position when Houston switched to a 3-4, he will be out to prove something and won’t have many blockers that should be focused on Rogers, Williams, and Wimbley. Second place: D’Qwell Jackson

Most Disappointing Player: LeCharles Bentley already won this award, but for the remainder of the year I will choose Andra Davis. I think by the end of the year, we won’t be hearing much from him

Most surprising unit on team: Safeties. Sean Jones is in a contract year and Brodney Pool a year more experienced (remember he left after junior year of college), I could see them playing extremely well with the added help on the defensive line

Most disappointing unit on team: I will say QB, not because I think they will struggle, but because they make me the most nervous and are the key to a winning season. Strong play from either Anderson or Quinn and I can’t envision us missing the playoffs.

Record for season: 11-5. You can call me the Gipper because I am the eternal optimist. Like I said above, if Anderson and/or Quinn play well, we have the strength on both lines and playmakers to be one of the best teams in the league.

Over, or under?

Anderson’s season QB rating: 84. Under, but barely. Just enough under to keep the Quinn debate alive

Stallworth’s receiving yards: 750 Over, I see between 800-900 yards

Wimbley’s sacks: 7.5 Over. I think he gets 10 or more this year

Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones Total Interceptions: 17.5 Under. It will be close, but our secondary strikes me more of a coverage, not allowing the catch type unit, than an opportunistic interception group

Training camp is here! GO BROWNS

by Roger Dorn on Jul 23, 2008 8:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Most Improved Player: Eric Wright- he plays shutdown corner, part because of skill, part because i think teams will pick on the opposite side, be it McDonald or a guy off the practice squad.

Most Disappointing Player: Beau Bell- after the lack of depth at corner, LB remains a relatively week and untested position. Because he was our “top” pick, people will place unfair expectations on him and he won’t meet them… which is ok, since he’s a 4th rounder anyways.

Most surprising unit on team: RBs: Jamal Lewis proves last year wasn’t a fluke by going 1500 yards and 12 TDs while missing 2 games, and during those two games, the OL plows the way for Jason Wright to go over 200 yards and 3 scores.

Most disappointing unit on team: LBs, se above

Record for season: 9-7, which will be good enough for the North title.

Over, or under?

Anderson’s season QB rating: OVER 84 (with the tools around him, anything under 80 would be grounds for the Quinn era to begin)

Stallworth’s receiving yards: UNDER 750 (not enough balls to go around with the running game and Edwards/Winslow, unless he breaks a couple 50+ yarders)

Wimbley’s sacks: UNDER 7.5 (help on the d-line will ease the pressure on him, but that doesn’t mean it’ll be easy to nab the QB 8 times)

Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones Total Interceptions: OVER 17.5 (they’ll be picked on all year; the sheer number of passes thrown their way should get them close to 20)

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Jul 23, 2008 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Most Improved Player: Eric Wright, we really need him to build on last year and fulfill his potential. I think he is more than up to the task.

Most Disappointing Player: Kellen Winslow, Jr., simply for health reasons

Most surprising unit on team: Running Bank, Lewis should turn in another solid year (1200 YD+ 8 TD) but I’m banking on bigger contributions from the backups and FB, specifically Harrison and Vickers in the passing game.

Most disappointing unit on team: QB simply due to the fact that Anderson is in a no win situation IMO. Unless we make the playoffs, win the Super Bowl, beat Pittsburgh twice by 50 points AND he throws for 4000 + YDs 25 + TD many will call for Quinn. Anderson does need to improve his short passing and TD/INT ratio but should not be worrying about his job at this point

Record for season: If all goes well 11-5 and a playoff win. We HAVE to at least split with Pittsburgh

Over, or under?

Anderson’s season QB rating: 84 Over. 88 sounds about right. Derrick cuts the picks down by 3-5 in his 2nd year as the starter.

Stallworth’s receiving yards: 750 This sounds about right. I was thinking 45-50 catches at 15 a catch for about 700 YDs so under.

Wimbley’s sacks: 7.5 Hoping we attack this year! We aren’t talented enough to do the read/react thing. We need to send as many guys as it takes to get pressure. Over at 11.5 sacks.

Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones Total Interceptions: 17.5 Over. 20 sounds about right. Hopefully the additions on “D” will lead to more pressure which will lead to more turnovers.

by mgtbfb on Jul 23, 2008 12:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Vickers

Good point about his contribution. I hope he comes through.

by rufio on Jul 23, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Most Improved Player: Brodney Pool
Most Disappointing Player: Shaun Rogers
Most surprising unit on team: Secondary
Most disappointing unit on team: Defensive Line
Record for season: 7-9 (schedule)

Anderson’s season QB rating: 84 – Under
Stallworth’s receiving yards: 750 – Under
Wimbley’s sacks: 7.5 – Over
Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones Total Interceptions: 17.5 – Under for those 4, Over for the team

I actually expect much more from the defense this year improving to league average. I also expect the offense to be just average as I am not sold on DA’s ability to throw underneath. I hope I’m wrong because I see a ton of potential for this team. I expect this year to be somewhat of a step back before a huge leap forward in 09.

by dvd1204 on Jul 23, 2008 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Most improved player; Eric Wright, I think that he will take a step towards stardom. He really seemed to improve with every game. Another offseason learning the defense should only help.

Most disappointing player; Jamal Lewis, I hope I am wrong but I don’t think I am. Second place, K2. He will be out a couple of games but the passing offense will not miss a step because of Martin Rucker stepping up and becoming a real difference maker in the passing game.

Most Suprising Unit on Team; The LB’s. Leon Williams is a stud and should be on the field much more than he is. The new DL will keep OG’s off of D’Qwell and Andra allowing them to make more plays.

Most Disappointing Unit on Team; The running game. JLew will not be the JLew we saw last year, and Jason Wright is not going to set the world on fire.

Record for Season; 8-8 (This will still win us the AFC North)

DA’s Rating; Over, by just a little bit
Stallworth; Over, I think he will approach 1,000
Wimbley; Over. He is a bad ass.
Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones; Over because of the new added pressure.

by Bernie19Kosar on Jul 23, 2008 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Most Improved Player: Jerome Harrison. I’m really close to predicting that he’ll have 1,000 yards rushing. He’s looked good in the limited opportunities he’s had in the past. I see him having more opportunities because of…

Most Disappointing Player: Jamal Lewis. Did you ever have one of those feelings that a guy is due to get hurt? For some reason, I can’t escape that with Lewis. He’s older, has a physical running style and isn’t as strong as he once was. Oh, and he has a new contract as well. I don’t see this ending well for him, at all.

Most surprising unit on team: The DBs. People are talking like they are horrible. I’m comfortable to 3-deep. If they can avoid injuries, and the DL gets the pressure that people are imagining, the secondary won’t matter and will be largely covered.

Most disappointing unit on team: Special teams as a whole. Phil Dawson will regress a little. I could see Zastudil falling back. And it wouldn’t surprise me to see Heiden and Friedman fighting for active roster spots, which could really hurt the wedge in the return game.

Record for season: 9-7 (No playoffs)

Over, or under?

Anderson’s season QB rating: 84: Under, I’m thinking DA falls back a bit and becomes a slightly above-average QB.

Stallworth’s receiving yards: 750: Under, he has trouble staying healthy. I could easily see him missing 2-3 games, which really limits his yardage possibilities.

Wimbley’s sacks: 7.5: Over, breakout year. Big breakout year.

Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones Total Interceptions: 17.5: Under, this isn’t a bad thing, mind you. I just doubt how many passes they’ll actually intercept instead of defending.

by Fundamentals on Jul 23, 2008 5:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He’s older

I don’t think there’s a bigger misconception regarding the Browns team/players than this. Lewis is only 28. Maybe people say he’s older because he broke onto the scene in the Super Bowl as a rookie and had his monster 2,000+yard campaign in his third season, and those happened decades ago. Still, he’s two years away from the 30-year old “running back wall”, whether you believe in those things or not.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Jul 24, 2008 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just a Hypothetical

Who would you rather take:

Player A who is 27 with five 300 carry seasons and one 400 carry season

or

Player A (same player) who is 30 with three 300 carry seasons and not one over 350?

by rufio on Jul 24, 2008 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not enough info to answer. choosing one of these based on this info does not necessarily lead to the right answer.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Jul 24, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

on 2nd thought, I can answer this. i had to rethink what you meant by “same player”.

all else equal, i’d rather have a guy who’s 30 and hasn’t had a 400-carry season.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Jul 24, 2008 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let’s not forget that Lewis A) takes better care of his body than most NFL players. He also ran stronger as the season went on. His last four games he rushed for 501 yards on 101 attempts for a 4.96 YPC average. He’s shown no signs of being worn out since he donned Orange and Brown. He should be a workhorse again this year, and if he’s not it will be due to some normal RB injury – not age.

by danvail on Jul 24, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Please ignore the “A)”

by danvail on Jul 24, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I am not trying to knock on Lewis at all. He is a baller, and as much as I can tell a great guy for the professionalism level of the team. I was more interested in Fundamentals’/Rolub’s definitions of “age” at RB. Do you measure in carries, years, both? How much is each weighted in peoples’ minds?

I am interested in perceptions here: if Lewis gets some “normal RB injury” do we perceive that he is getting hurt because he is getting “old”? etc. etc.

by rufio on Jul 24, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I go largely on carries and running style. Lewis falls on both of those. Its not just that he’s carried the ball a lot, but that he’s done it with a very physical style of play that would add up over time, I would think.

by Fundamentals on Jul 24, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Most Improved Player:Quinn

Most Disappointing Player:Anderson

Most surprising unit on team:defensive line

Most disappointing unit on team:special teams

Record for season:10-6

Over, or under?

Anderson’s season QB rating: 84 under

Stallworth’s receiving yards: 750 over

Wimbley’s sacks: 7.5 under

Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones Total Interceptions: 17.5 over

by elsandito on Jul 23, 2008 11:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’ll add that some of the comments here about Jamal disappoint me. I consider him to be one of the great big backs in history. He is Jerome Bettis with breakaway speed. He is an uber fast lineman with moves that carries a football. His absence in the lineup would significantly impact the Browns’ ability to field a balanced attack. I did not realize just how under appreciated he is by Browns fans until this.

by elsandito on Jul 24, 2008 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think anyone ever denied that when Jamal Lewis is playing like Jamal Lewis, he is an animal. If they did, I disagree with them.

If anyone has questions about Jamal, they will be things like “can he still do it after all that wear and tear?” or “will he continue to work as hard with a new multi-year contract?”.

Even if he took a step back because he is older or less hungry, he is still so much better as a #1 back than either of the other guys we have. If he went down I think it would have a big impact too. I don’t deny his value to the Browns. I just believe that expectations for him are pretty ridiculously high. He has thrown out numbers like 1600+ yards. I picked him to “disappoint” because even a pretty good year for a RB (say, 1200 yards and 6TDs) would not be up to the Jamal Lewis standard. Personally, if he doesn’t get 1400+ yards, I probably will be disappointed because he is such a good back.

Much appreciation and respect for Jamal.

by rufio on Jul 24, 2008 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You have an appropriate degree of admiration for Jamal, but I don’t assume it is equally shared among others. Jamal’s presence in the backfield alone, assuming he’s healthy, forces opposing linebackers to hesitate before taking a step backwards into coverage. Today’s pro football is played at such an awesome speed, that hesitation is worth a lot. No linebacker wants to expose his defensive back to a Jamal collision, because the back cannot be trusted to make the open field tackle. This is one of the reasons why Browns’ passing game has improved.

by elsandito on Jul 24, 2008 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Most Improved: Leon Williams (someone in the LB core needs to step up for us to win more than 8 games, He seems more likely than a rookie or a couple of washed up vets)
Most Disappointing- Jamal Lewis (look, he never was that good. He has a good OLine to run behind, bu tif the offense struggles, this is where I’d look second)
Most Surprising unit- I guess DLine is the least surprising surprising pick here, I mean 2 new starters should bring about some changes
Most Disappointing unit- DBs- there is a glaring lack of depth and I’m not sure we won’t make other teams look good.
Record- 8-8
Anderson QB rating of 84: OVER- I think Anderson sucks… like very bad. But this offense is too good to not put impressive numbers as a QB. 84 would be terrible. If the rating is under 90 going after the first 4 games or so, Quinn should be getting a long look.
Stallworth 750 Rcv yds 750: UNDER- Winslow and Edwards are going to get most of the looks, especially early in the season.
Wimbley Sacks 7.5: OVER- the dude can get 7-10 sacks a year just by dipping his shoulder and speed rushing from the same side of the ball every snap on defense. Hopefully they will use him more creatively and maybe even teach him a counter move.
Starting DB’s INTs- 17.5: UNDER- that would be a lot of INTs for 4 guys. Probably the most overrated stat for an individual defender.

by DaytonDogg on Jul 24, 2008 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You would look to Lewis 2nd...

...and you don’t like DA, so I am assuming you would look there first?

by rufio on Jul 24, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

correct.

by DaytonDogg on Jul 25, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, a lot of DA hate in here… I’m not even close to sold on the guy but the level of disdain for a first year starter that went to the Pro Bowl is a bit surprising.

A few comments on the over/unders…

QB rating – I think I set this fairly well – a lot of people commenting how close they think it will be. I have to disagree with DDogg about his assessment of QB rating. Under 90 after the first four games means getting benched? WTF? We play the Giants, Redskins, Jags, then the Ravens. Not exactly a whole bunch of easy to pass on teams. Re-think that sentiment.

Stallworth at 750 yards. It seems 700 would have made a better o/u. The reason I see Donte going over is the likelihood of KW2 missing time.

Wimbley sacks, it seems 8.5 might have been better. I still think teams will double team him enough to mitigate his ONE (albeit pretty damn good) rushing technique of dipping his shoulder and rushing the outside edge. There’s a reason he was negated so often last year. He’s shown no ability to take advantage of inside opportunities.

DB picks… We had 16 between the starters last year (Bodden, Jones, Pool, Wright, and McDonald). With the number of people picking Wright or Pool as the most improved players it’s a bit surprising you don’t think they’ll end up with more. I don’t think 4.5 picks each is all that much to ask if they’re getting as much pressure as we all think the front seven can provide.

PS, DDogg: “Probably the most overrated stat for an individual defender.” That’s why I listed the starting secondary. For a defense, interceptions, the more common turnover, is a very important team statistic. If our DBs aren’t picking off some of the ill-advised passes thrown with hands to the face, we’re probably in for a long year.

by danvail on Jul 24, 2008 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We elder statesmen have seen a ton of young guys like Anderson come and go. These athletes are blessed with size, strength and natural ability. Anderson lacks 2 critical qualities. He is not a leader and he is not a deep thinker. The result of this is that when things aren’t going our way, he doesn’t rally his troops, he acts the bystander. Also, he has never and will never take care of the football. He is either too attracted to the high risk approach of throwing into multiple coverage or he is simply fooled by disguised coverages. It’s not important which of these are true. He has a long record dating back to his college days of turning the ball over far more than is considered prudent for success. Having said all that, I think he can be a useful backup qb over the long haul and far better than Charlie Frye will ever be.

by elsandito on Jul 24, 2008 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Backup?

He will be starting for us, or for someone else for at least 3 more years. Do I really need to list the QBs that started in the NFL and address the vacuum of talent at the position? If by “over the long haul” you mean beginning 4+ years from now and ending in about 10, then OK, maybe. There are people so desperate at QB that DA will start for a while somewhere in the league, regardless of whether or not he can lead someone to the Super Bowl.

by rufio on Jul 25, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I meant that he’d be a suitable backup for the Browns, a team that has a qb with the talent and leadership abilities of Quinn. I agree that Anderson would start for a number of other teams, but only because their qb’s don’t even possess the the size, strength and ability of Anderson. And I am not opposed to trading Anderson for the right offer.

by elsandito on Jul 25, 2008 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think K2 will miss a whole lot of time. The dude is simply a beast and will play through a lot of pain. His knee has got to be stronger this year than it was last year if only because he is 1+ year removed from microfractue surgery, and not coming back from it. A ‘scope is a lot easier to come back from (when you don’t get a staph infection).

But even if you are correct and K2 does miss time, I think Stallworth will get hurt at some point this season too, hurting his chances to go over 750.

Also, our first games are Dallas, Pitt, Baltimore and Cinci. Your point is still pretty valid, though. Every one of those teams but the Bengals has a pretty good D.

Yes, Wimbley only has one move. If he doesn’t develop either a counter move or another effective move, I will be a little disappointed. I don’t think that was the only reason he was “negated” last year, though. The DL clearly did not take up enough blockers, and it seemed Wimbley was double teamed and gameplanned against much much more than his rookie year. Hopefully Williams and Rogers can help with that.

Thanks for setting these things up, this has been fun.

by rufio on Jul 25, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

On Anderson- I think he is really bad. I really do. I think he was and will continue to be carried by an awesome line and two elite receivers in Winslow and Edwards. If his rating is in the mid-80’s, that is problematic. The passing offense NEEDS to be the strength of this team. If it isn’t, we aren’t going anywhere. Average isn’t going to cut it. We don’t have a dynamic running game (more below) or an defense to make up for a starting QB to be mediocre. Now, I what I meant about the 4 games and a QB rating under 90 was that Quinn should start to be considered. If we have we start seeing the division slip away from us and Anderson is playing just average, Quinn needs to be considered. I’m not clamoring for him to start right away, but to not consider him if Anderson turns out to be anything less than a pro-bowler (which really just means above average), then we should see what Quinn’s got. I realize that the first four games are against tough defenses, but its not like the schedule gets easy after that- we have a difficult schedule.

Re: INT’s- I know you listed the starting secondary. But even last year to get to your 16 you had to name the top 5 guys. It’s hard to say who will get the lucky deflection or be the recipient of a terrible Baltimore Raven QB throw. It could be the 4 guys you mentioned, it could be a backup, it could be a nickel back, it could be a linebacker. Besides dropping the ball when it is there for the taking, there isn’t much a guy can do to get INT’s, it comes from good fortune, mistakes by the other team, and the scheme that the defense is in.

Oh, about Lewis- he simply isn’t that great. See some of the work done by the boys over at Mistake on the Lake Sporting Times: here and here

now, I think they overstate his suckiness, but I think there is a lot of truth in those fancy numbers they use. And to expect Lewis to outperform his career numbers for two years in a row is a little foolish.

by DaytonDogg on Jul 25, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Lewis

It’s been discussed here and there recently, that football players’ individual success is arguably more dependent on his 10 on-field teammates than on his individual ability alone. So it’s unfair to think that Lewis cannot again outperform his career numbers when he’s playing with an entirely different team than he did in his first six seasons. As the O-line this year is not significantly different than last year, I see no reason why he can’t repeat last year’s numbers.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Jul 25, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s fair. His season last year should be given more weight than what he did on very different teams behind very different lines (and mostly with no competent passing game) in Baltimore. Still, I think expecting him to reproduce at last year’s numbers is asking a lot from a guy who has had one season better than last year, two the same as last year and 3 much worse than last year. RB’s usually don’t get better 8 years into their career, and maintaining a solid performance is asking a lot for the guy with as many carries as he has. I hope he proves to be an anomaly, and depending on what the passing game does, he should have every opportunity to produce.

by DaytonDogg on Jul 25, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

When you look at last year’s ratings, and particularly those 90 and above, it’s hard to disagree with your assessment. However, guys who throw 29 TDs before their 25th birthday are few and far between… and those that don’t go on to improve and have successful careers are even fewer and farther between.

by kwoog on Jul 25, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I meant to include the link.

by kwoog on Jul 25, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

funny, looking at that you notice alot of quality starting QB’s for playoff teams who are right around DA or below him.

17. Derek Anderson – 82.5
18. Philip Rivers – 82.4
20. Jason Campbell – 77.6
25. Eli Manning – 73.9
26. Vince Young – 71.1

With the exception of Jason Campbell all those QB’s played almost full seasons for their teams.

Then look at the QB’s who were on playoff teams you have an average QB rating of 92.13 (slightly better than Hasselbeck.) So the lowest needed QB rating would be a 71.1 but if your QB has an 80 or so QB rating, and the other phases of your game are running on all cylinders you have a good chance of making the playoffs.

by Lisol on Jul 25, 2008 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

believe it or not, teams can make the playoffs with a crappy quarterback. Even more surprising to some, really really bad quarterbacks often WIN the Super Bowl! Vince Young is terrible. The offense he runs is terrible. His passing is terrible. Not sure what your list means here, except that there are QBs that are bad… even worse than Anderson. Then again, if Derek Anderson played with Tennessee’s offense, his rating would probably drop pretty low.

by DaytonDogg on Jul 26, 2008 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My point of the link was that excepting what Eli did, the teams w/ QBs that had a 90+ rating are pretty much the only teams that you’d consider to have a shot at the Super Bowl… thus, that I thought your point was correct: you need at least 90 QB play to be a legit threat.

However, I think that a 24 year old doing what DA did last year portends well to getting to that level.

by kwoog on Jul 28, 2008 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I also am a little skeptical of Anderson, but the guy is still young and has plenty of room to improve

by Roger Dorn on Jul 25, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is how I feel. The complete disregard for his age/experience level and especially his potential for improvement is staggering.

How is it so easy for some of you to think DA’s incapable of improvement. This will only be his second year as a starter (first pre-season) and that means his first offseason working with Braylon and KW2. He adds another WR that plays to his downfield strength in Stallworth. This will be his second year in the Chud offense.

I’d be surprised and very disappointed if he DIDN’T show marked improvement. I think this plays into the ‘first four games’ sentiment DDogg posted, but the difference I suppose is that I expect DA to improve and it seems DDogg and others expect him to fail. Maybe that’s just presumptive on my part but it doesn’t seem so.

Also, on in the INT’s, the reason I included those five guys was that they split time as starters, so including only four would have left us with less than four starters with less than 64 games started in 2007. That said, McDonald only had one pick last year. One of the reasons I included this stat and in the manner I did (listing the individual starters) was to point out the importance of keeping those four on the field and productive. If they lose starts to injury it will hurt us more so than some other positions would.

by danvail on Jul 28, 2008 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As a disclaimer: I am not sold either way on which QB should eventually end up as “our guy”.

I think some of the concern regarding Anderson’s capacity for improvement is because people don’t perceive him to be 1. really smart and 2. a really hard worker.

I just have this perception that DA is a very laid back type of guy. He also doesn’t seem like a genius. The best QBs in the NFL’s modern era and in the NFL today have been relatively competitive guys who are very intelligent or who have otherwise had “it”. Joe Montana was crazy smart. Steve Young was so competitive he played through waayyy too many concussions. Dan Marino, John Elway, Tom Brady…those guys were/are warriors. Peyton Manning has a ridiculous drive and is incredibly smart. Do you see more of that sort of intangible in DA, or BQ?

I think the best comparison between DA and a great quarterback would have to be Brett Favre. He has a cannon of an arm. He loves to have fun. He has that gunslinger mentality and will try to force too many throws in to coverage. I just think Favre has something that DA doesn’t. All of those plays where he would be getting sacked and just flick the ball to someone and save the play, or when he would carry out a perfect play fake resulting in a defender chasing a non-existent ball…does DA have that? I think it remains to be seen. He certainly doesn’t seem as competitive as Favre…but the “it” question is the one DA has to answer.

Obviously, you can win the super bowl with a sub par QB. Its even pretty easy to make the playoffs in the NFC with a sub par QB. We haven’t had a decent starter since we have been back, and to maybe have two is special, especially with other teams starting such players as Chris Redman, Shaun Hill, and Cleo Lemon. Its not that people don’t think that DA can improve (he will) at least for me, personally, I think that DA might lack “it”/the intelligence/competitive drive to do the things he needs to do to be a star in the league and make the Browns a threat perennially. Every year the Colts have Peyton, they are in the playoff race. I would love to say the same thing about a Browns QB.

by rufio on Jul 28, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can see your point on DA’s apparent lack of hyper-motivation and/or intelligence, but….

1. First, does DA seem any dumber than Roethlisberger? Honestly, that guy gives me more of a dumbass vibe than some of the linebackers to have played in that city. What about Cutler? or Vince Young? They don’t strike me as neurosurgeons. Besides, have you had a conversation with DA? Who knows how smart he really is? The “Aw, shucks” attitude may prove a very poor reflection of his intelligence.

2. As far as work ethic or “drive” is concerned, I wish I could find it, but I read a piece about DA that put him in the film room more than anyone else on the team. Maybe that means he just needs more time to absorb what others can grasp in a shorter time. Maybe that means he’s more dedicated than some are willing to give him credit for.

3. Leadership – that’s the toughest one. I really never saw him “take charge” the way most QBs do these days. Maybe that was just a result of there being confusion as to whose team it really was, or maybe it was just because it was his first year starting. Maybe he’ll develop into that outspoken leader role, maybe he won’t. The biggest maybe I have, though, is that maybe it doesn’t matter. Maybe, there’s more than one way to lead an NFL offense. Maybe, his never-get-rattled, shake-it-off, don’t-fee-the-pressure attitude will rub off on his teammates and allow this team to operate in clutch situations where a QB screaming his lungs out would frazzle a WR or lineman just as he needs him to focus. That doesn’t seem so implausible to me.

by danvail on Jul 28, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

1. Jay Cutler seems like one of the dumbest QBs in the NFL. BUT first, as you point out I have never talked to any of these NFL QBs nor do I know much about them aside from on field play and second hand conversation. Second, they don’t have to prove their intelligence to me. Third, they would prove their intelligence by what they do on the field, not how they talk or what they say. On field play is all that matters. Peyton manning plays smart, so does Brady. They know what other defenses are doing, and they make the plays that prove they are intelligent. The fact that they are pretty well spoken is just a bonus.

2. If DA works hard, great. He still is not perceived as someone who does by the fans. He does not appear to be a super competitive person, which some believe can make a good player great.

3. Yelling at people doesn’t always work. No matter your style, on field play, Ws and rings make people respect you as a leader. If Derek can lead the Browns to those, people will look to him as a leader. Ryan Leaf yelled a lot, and he sucked. He just doesn’t have that sort of presence to command the whole team’s attention YET.

I am not trying to make an argument against Derek at QB. I am trying to answer your question “How is it so easy for some of you to think DA’s incapable of improvement”. I am throwing out reasons people perceive DA as someone who won’t improve a whole lot. Maybe they are wrong, maybe they aren’t. I personally am fine with whoever is behind center in a Browns uniform as long as they are the best person for the job. Romeo gets paid to make that decision and I don’t, so I will trust whoever he puts out there.

by rufio on Jul 28, 2008 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

“Maybe they are wrong, maybe they aren’t.”

This is the crux of the issue. There are zero reasons to think they are right (since they are all by people who can, quite literally, have no idea whatsoever what his football intelligence is). There are multiple reasons to think that they are wrong (historical examples of QBs who did had similar seasons as similar ages, talent/skill set).

I will say this as far as “it” factor goes w/ DA: In the fourth quarter of the Baltimore game with the “crossbar kick”, he drove us within range, and culminated it all when he stood in there, double pumped while having two arms wrapped around him and fired, without stepping into it, a bullet over the middle to Braylon to setup the field goal, on fourth down I believe, I started to think he has that “it” fairy dust that fans crave. A couple bad play calls in a tornado before half time at Paul Brown stadium hasn’t diminished that for me.

by kwoog on Jul 28, 2008 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We can all have SOME idea of Anderson’s football intelligence, I mean, we DO watch him play in NFL games. I’ve seen him make stupid-dumb throws and crazy-smart throws. As long as he is in Orange and Brown, I hope there are more smart ones than dumb ones. As for his POTENTIAL for football intelligence, I agree. Savage, Crennel, even Anderson himself might not know.

Like most Browns fans (and unlike you, for some reason) I have been burned one too many times to be so sure and so optimistic just yet. I love where the team is headed, I just can’t tell if we are there. I am not convinced DA has “it” and not convinced last season was more than just a fluke. I don’t think we can know until we see what happens this season. That is why all of this is fun, thats why they play the games.

We know even less about Quinn.

by rufio on Jul 29, 2008 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not “so optimistic.” I just don’t worry about things gratuitously. And if I did, I certainly wouldn’t write about them ad nauseum on a website. Or if I did, I’d be on the cleveland.com boards.

We get it, you won’t be convinced until the games get played. We get it, we get it, we get it. I think most Browns fans on here (unlike you, for some reason) want to talk about things that they haven’t already made up their minds on.

by kwoog on Jul 29, 2008 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well you’ve already made up your mind that you don’t like me and that everything I say is wrong, so can you stop discussing that?

by rufio on Jul 29, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Man, I don’t dislike you. Sorry it came off that way.

I do dislike hearing bashing for bashing’s sake, and unsubstantiated criticism after unsubstantiated criticism. That’s what talk about DA’s “heart” and “it-ness” sounds like to me. Instead of simply saying you’re wrong, I was trying to refute these gratuitous criticisms w/ sacts (an example of DA displaying tremendous heart/will, the lack of knowledge anyone not in Berea has about his intelligence). That’s all I ever do… I may disagree, but I always back it up.

But post whatever you like, my bad.

by kwoog on Jul 29, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brass knuckles fight ‘oughta settle it.

Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.

by ChrisPokorny on Aug 1, 2008 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Most Improved Player: Wimbley

Most Disappointing Player: Derek “Horse Balls” Anderson. Sorry, DA, but I expect you to regress to the mean.

Most surprising unit on team: DBs

Most disappointing unit on team: RBs

Record for season: 10-6

Over, or under?

Anderson’s season QB rating: 84 UNDER

Stallworth’s receiving yards: 750 OVER

Wimbley’s sacks: 7.5 OVER

Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones Total Interceptions: 17.5 UNDER

Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.

by BringBackKosar on Jul 24, 2008 6:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Best Nickname: “Horse Balls” in a landslide

Proud supporter of the Cleveland.

by fwembt on Jul 24, 2008 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What the heck .. .I did so poorly in the indian’s predictions, why not try again ….

Most Improved Player: Wright - I agree with the few that say he steps it up to an almost Pro Bowl level

Most Disappointing Player: Dawson – this is the year we have tryouts mid-season. Hopefully we score lots of TDs.

Most surprising unit on team: Secondary – from all of the press clippings, this is supposed to be our weak spot. With the improved DL, they become above league average.

Most disappointing unit on team: Special Teams – I just feel that we’ll have a few injuries and regression from last year’s good ST play.

Record for season: 9-7, winning the division by beating a beat up Pitt team in Week 17.

Over, or under?

Anderson’s season QB rating: 84 – Under, He’ll throw enough picks to bring this down.

Stallworth’s receiving yards: 750 – Under, I think Winslow/Rucker and Edwards get the bulk, but Stallworth scores 5 important TDs (3 of 30+)

Wimbley’s sacks: 7.5 – Over, improved interior DL helps free him up, say 12 sacks for the year.

Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones Total Interceptions: 17.5 – Under, I think as a team we’ll get more than 18, but a few of those will fall to LBs and DLs on pressures/tips to the QB instead.

by talonk on Jul 24, 2008 7:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Most Improved – Eric Wright, the new D-Line and Wimbley will help make Wright look really really good.

Most Disappointing – Kellen Winslow, Winslow will play through alot of pain this year, which means Rucker and Heiden will be getting more looks in the passing game, not to mention JJ (in the later half of the season if he returns) or whoever else ends up being our slot reciever.

Most Surprising Unit – Secondary, See above

Most Disappointing Unit – Special Teams, Phil Dawson will have an off-year, and it will be hard to live up to last year.

Record for the season – 9-7, winning the division

Anderson’s QB Rating – Over, 90s or so, with a more diverse recieving corps and more work on his game, DA will do much better this season

Stallworth’s receiving yards – Under, but anything over 600 will be a good season for him, I expect him to have at least 10-15 20+ yards plays, and produce 3-5 TD’s

Wimbley’s sacks – Over, looking at 8 or 9

Total Interceptions – Under for the starting secondary, over for the whole defense

by Lisol on Jul 25, 2008 9:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Most Improved Player: Derek Anderson. Short passes.

Most Disappointing Player: D’Qwell Jackson. I don’t have any confidence he’s added bulk, I think he will be knocked backwards by ballcarriers.

Most surprising unit on team: CBs. McDonald and Wright are the new Minnifield/Dixon.

Most disappointing unit on team: LB’s, I’m worried they won’t improve as much as the DL should allow them.

Record for season: 11-5, why not be optimistic now?

Over, or under?

Anderson’s season QB rating: 84. Far over, I think around 105.

Stallworth’s receiving yards: 750 Over

Wimbley’s sacks: 7.5 Over, for sure.

Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones Total Interceptions: 17.5 Under, but the defense will allow less than 400 yards per game and under 20 points per game.

by NickFantana on Jul 29, 2008 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Most Improved Player: Joshua Cribs. How can he improve from last year? Just wait and see. Offensively he will become as significant of a threat as the big three (BE, K2 & JL). Special teams play will improve even from last year and unlike the Bears teams can not afford to kick away from him. And if they do that credit goes directly to him. (Which they should create a stat for that too).

Most Disappointing Player: Having JJ miss any part of the season and the probability that he will miss the entire season.

Most surprising unit on team: Can the D-Line be surprising? I’d throw in the two OLB and say that pass-rush/run stopping unit will be as surprising as our offense was last year. Barring injuries they will be in the top 5 in sacks and run defense (a product of our good offense)

Most disappointing unit on team: O-line, RB, WRs, TEs, D-line, LBs, Punting, Kickoff/PuntReturn are all going to be top 10. Leaving QB and Secondary as the only suspect areas because of lack of overall experience. I think both will play well overall but the expectations are too high on both for the output. I like our CBs for the future but now seems quite scary. Jones is good but Pool could be better. If Baxter can contribute plus we pick up a veteran CB as I expect Savage to do before the first game then this could be a non-issue. QB has the biggest chance to disappoint, given the high hopes for our team. I will go with the Secondary because of depth and because we are facing a majority of the top 15 passing teams in the NFL (Colts, Houston, Jags(surprise this year), Bengals, Steelers, Giants, Cowboys, Eagles, Denver).

Record for season: 11-5 (5-1 AFC North, 2-2 NFC East, 2-2 AFC South, 2-0 (Buffalo & Denver)

Anderson’s season QB rating: 84 – It’s hard to see him improving over last years stats. I’m not 100% sure what goes into a QB rating but the way he throws the ball he will always have a higher number of INTs and a lower completion %. Therefore I will have to go with lower then 84. DA is a good QB, not a Pro Bowler year in and year out. Picking 84 is a good number because it puts you in the improve or not improve camp. He would have to get treatment for his testicular elephantitis (aka Horse Balls) and take some physics classes to improve upon the 82.5 Rating last year. (It would be interesting to know what his QB rating was for the last 6-7 games).

Stallworth’s receiving yards: 750 – Under, in 6 seasons the guy has only had two (945 & 767) going over. If it was his second year in the offense I’d say over and JJ only had 616 yards last year and it’s hard to imagine a better #2 receiver.

Wimbley’s sacks: 7.5 – Over. He is the real deal. Pressure from the inside and especially the other outside position both of which were no existent last year will improve his numbers. In fact Wimbley will come close to doubling that number with 6 games against weak offensive lines of the Steelers, Ravens and Bengals.

Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones Total Interceptions: 17.5 – This is a tough one and beating the over is expecting a 20% improvement (if you though in Leigh stats) from last year. If all stay healthy then it’s plausible, but again it would be a significant jump. I say no only because Pool and Even teams who get high turnovers like Vikings & Ravens didn’t beat this # with 4 guys. (Of course I hope I’m wrong). This one stat too will rest on the D-Line’s shoulders.

Also the posts about concerns of K2’s health are funny. True fans have pointed out that he is a beast and will play through any injury. Beyond something freakish happening that man will break the Browns single season records for Rec & TDs for TEs this year and will challenge Braylon. Honestly if Quinn was QB he would be his number one target because the man can flat out catch (even if he dropped the TD in the SF game).

by Guage80 on Jul 30, 2008 9:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I enjoyed sitting back and reading everyone else’s input for a week and a half. Time to give my rough sketch (I say that because it could change when I do my official preview for the season, where I’ll elaborate more):

Most Improved Player: Kamerion Wimbley. If the defensive line lives up to its potential, Wimbley won’t need an effective inside move to beat his man because he won’t face double teams. And, if they do double team him, then fine: let’s see guys handle Rogers and Williams one-on-one regularly.

Most Disappointing Player: Martin Rucker. I think this has a lot to do with there being too much hype around him—after all, he was still a fourth round selection. The prospect of bringing him into games is intriguing, but we’re banking on him to master the offense as a constant speller to Winslow right away, and it’s tough to imagine a fourth-round rookie doing that.

Most Surprising Unit on Team: Tough to say, because they are almost all either very strong or below average. I’ll go with the inside linebackers: with the extra defensive line push up the middle, maybe we’ll truly get a look at the “real” Andra Davis, who is also reportedly in better shape.

Most Disappointing Unit on Team: Outside linebackers, particularly in defending the pass. That is not Wimbley’s strength, and the depth at the position after him and the now-absent Peek isn’t stellar.

Record for Season: (Reserved hype for my season prediction post, sorry guys, lol)

Over or Under?

Anderson’s Season QB rating: 84 Slightly over. His touchdowns will still be up there, but the gunslinging interceptions and the games where his accuracy goes off base will still be there.

Stallworth’s receiving yards: 750 Under. This bulk of this team’s receiving stats still belong to Edwards and Winslow, so I’d imagine Stallworth in the high 500s to low 600s, with a fairly high YPC average.

Wimbley’s Sacks: 7.5 Over…can’t say otherwise since I chose him as my most improved player.

Wright/McDonald/Pool/Jones Total Interceptions: 17.5 I’ll go for the under here…there’s a chance a guy like Terry Cousin could actually come in and intercept five passes as the nickel back if teams think they can over-pickon the depth behind our starters.

Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.

by ChrisPokorny on Aug 1, 2008 12:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs