OH-IO at non-buckeyes games
by Brownsguy on Aug 1, 2008 2:37 PM EDT
112 comments
Can someone explain to me why I have to hear some drunk moron in jean shorts and a sleeveless t shirt yelling this at every indians/cavs/browns game?
I understand the fact that OSU football is the only team around here who does not continually let down cleveland fans. However, I am pretty sure that yelling "OH-IO" at indians games does not give support to the players on the field. And looking at the browns roster, none of the players attended TOSU, so why do people continue to do this? In the pre-Tressel era you would never hear this at sporting events. However, in the past few years, I cannot remember the last time I was at a sporting event in Cleveland where some jibroni with 8 stacked empty beer cups starting this deplorable chant. Same concept can be applied to playing hang on sloopy over the PA system. One exception to my distate is when the buckeyes band plays one game a year at browns stadium.
Another thing about Ohio State fans (and by the way I am an ohio state fan)..... Why do you wear jerseys to non-ohio state sporting events? I look at these people and wonder who let them out. Why on earth would you wear a scarlett #7 jersey to a tribe, cavs or browns games? It is completely obnoxious and part of the reason why ohio state was listed as one of the most hated college football teams. Squealers and red sox fans are the kings and queens of rocking their teams gear to a sporting event that has nothing to do with that team. In light of this, it disheartens me to see buckeye fans stooping to their level. Wearing a baseball cap to a game does not bother me, or even a t shirt. However, a jersey is not normal attire for anything, and wearing one means you went out of your way to be a d-bag.
This is a fan-created post. Dawgs By Nature assumes no responsibility for the content listed.
0 recs |
112 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Lived my whole life in cleveland and if theres one thing i can’t stand its vocal OSU fans (i’m actually a Wisconsin fan.) So many people around here are fair-weather bandwagon fans of OSU it disgusts me. And i agree 100% with the sentiment about the OHIO chant and the OSU jerseys at non-OSU games. At an Indians game you want to support the indians, same with the cavs and the browns.
Well maybe a person doesn’t have the money to buy a jersey for every team, or doesn’t care to. So is a person not allowed to wear a Cavs jersey at an Indians game? Or an Indians jersey at a Browns game? Those are all local teams, and Ohio State is the local college football team for most fans in Ohio. If you’re a Wisconsin fan that’s fine, but you’re in Ohio so what do you expect?
Chanting “OHIO” or singing Hang on Sloopy doesn’t mean you’re not supporting the Indians. It’s just a way to bring the fans together, which is what sports is all about.
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
That's me.
I just graduated (from tOSU, incidentally) and I do not have the money to buy a jersey for every sport. I have one LBJ jersey and a couple of Browns shirts I got from thrift stores, that’s it. I wear a team’s gear to represent that team no matter where I am.
Although, knowing what some OSU students and fans can be like, I understand the disdain for some of them. There are definitely a good chunk of tOSU fans who are d-bags (every team has jerks rooting for it). But, then aren’t you really just complaining about d-bags and not people’s fashion choices? Or fair weather fans and not their fashion choices?
And if you are going to complain about what people wear, why not talk about someone wearing a steelers jersey to a Cavs game or something like that? That makes a lot less sense to me.
Lastly, as for this:
“However, a jersey is not normal attire for anything, and wearing one means you went out of your way to be a d-bag.”
Jerseys are perfectly normal attire for young people, especially young people involved in hip hop culture. If you want to be old and/or mature a jersey is not the way to go. Bonus points if you can identify this: “I don’t wear jerseys I’m 30-plus, gimme a crisp pair of jeans, ** button-ups”
Obviously, Brad, not all of this is meant as a reply to you. I just went off on a couple tangents.
I agree completely. Of course some OSU fans are a-holes. So are some Michigan fans. And some Northwestern fans. And some Kent State, and Akron, and Youngstown St. (my alma mater) fans. Don’t judge everyone by a few idiots.
Also, the answer to your question is Jay-Z. Where are my bonus points?
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
As energized Browns fans broke into Ohio State’s signature "O-H-I-O" sing-a-long, raising their arms overhead to form each letter in the fourth quarter, Edwards, a Michigan man through and through, joined in."I was definitely doing it," Edwards admitted. "This is Ohio. This is my residence. This is where I play football. This is where I earn my paycheck. This is the city I’ve adopted and the one that has adopted me. I don’t mind doing O-H-I-O. I don’t believe it just pertains to Ohio State.
"Cleveland," he said, "is in Ohio."
Ohio State was voted the most hated program in College Football because they are good, not because their fans have a chant. No one hates Northwestern for a reason.
And O-H…..I-O because I can.
Are you kidding me?! Most Cleveland sports fans are also Ohio State fans, so what’s wrong with that? It’s not about the players in the field, it’s about the fans in the stadium. It’s the same thing as fans at Progressive Field cheering if a Browns player throws out the first pitch, or the score of a Cavs game is announced between innings. Are the fans not allowed to cheer for those teams, because it’s a different sport?
And what’s wrong with wearing a OSU jersey to a Browns or Indians game? Maybe that person doesn’t have a Browns jersey but wants to show that they’re from Cleveland, OHIO. I’ve worn an Indians shirt to a Cavs game before—is that wrong? This is one of the dumbest posts I’ve ever read on this site.
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
Also, I just realized what’s especially dumb about this quote:
Why on earth would you wear a scarlett #7 jersey to a tribe, cavs or browns games?
Do you know who wore #7 for OSU? Ted Ginn, Jr. Do you know where he’s from? CLEVELAND!!!
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
‘72 OSU alum here. I was born and raised in Cleveland and stayed. The rebirth of championship college football at OSU, with the arrival of Jim Tressel, won’t last indefinitely. My advice, get on the friggin bandwagon while there still is a bandwagon. The OSU football and basketball teams are your ambassador to other states. Unfortuantely, our ambassador leaves that other state in shambles too often, which is why the hatred/jealousy.
You wear that tattered jersey to the table, state dinners and weddings.
boo this post. boooooo.
Part of the culture and pride of living anywhere in the great state of Ohio is the Ohio State Buckeyes. Anytime you have more than a couple dozen Ohioans in the same room, there is going to be Ohio State jerseys and OH—IO chants. That’s true in Athens, that’s true in Cincinnati, that’s true in Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland, and everywhere else in this great state. At the Hofbrahaus in Newport, Kentucky across the Ohio river near Cincinnati, Hang On Sloopy is a staple of the corny German band that plays every night. It’s played at county fairs and city street festivals.
We live in Ohio. Get over it.
I didn’t feel the need to start a thread about this, and I don’t necessarily agree with all of it, but I am generally annoyed by the OSU homerism, enough to the point I do the Gator chomp when the song is played at other Cleveland sporting events and bars. I’ve been booed, and that made me happy.
I also purchased an LSU shirt from Steve and Barry’s a couple days before the recent BCS title game, and wore it proudly before and after the game. I’m somewhat of an instigator.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
I like OSU, but I’ve often done the Gator Chomp just for the sake of doing it. I can’t explain it…it just feels cool or something. (Does Gator Chomp without having a sports time in mind)
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
by Chris Pokorny on Aug 4, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
^team, not time
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
by Chris Pokorny on Aug 4, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
“Annoyed by the OSU homerism”—let me get this straight; you’re annoyed by Ohio State fans who live in OHIO?!? I don’t get that. Do you get annoyed with “Cleveland homerism” by fans from Cleveland?
I get annoyed by front-running, bandwagon jumping fans (such as all the Yankees, Red Sox, Cowboys, and Steelers fans who live in Ohio) but I don’t mind people from Boston that are Red Sox fans. I’m sure if I grew up in Boston I’d be a die-hard Red Sox fan, too. Let me ask you, which team are college football fans from Ohio supposed to root for?
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
rolub, if I assume correctly, is a Gator fan and therefore is not use to the passionate response that Ohio State has in Ohio.
Florida is filled with transplants from other states to the point where out of state teams are more popular than the colleges in Florida. Georgia and Ohio State probably have bigger following than most college in Florida.
The only real place where the Gators own is in Gainesville…even then you can find plenty of fans for other teams. It’s probably just a shock to his system that an entire state can support a team as fervently as Ohio does OSU.
You assume incorrectly. I’ve lived in Ohio my entire life, Cleveland for 24 years and Dayton for 4 while in school.
And I hate the SEC as a conference more than I hate OSU homers, believe it or not. The difference is, if I bitch about the SEC around here, everyone nods their heads and drinks their beer. If we talk about OSU football, the conversation’s more interesting.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
“Homerism” has nothing to do with just being a fan of your local team. It has to do with having a false perception of reality or distorting it by sharing blame with everyone else. OSU players running into problems with the law?
“It’s not Tressel’s fault for being low-character guys in, he’s just trying to better their lives!”
“Every college has non-law-abiding athletes, look at Georgia!”
I can be a fan of the Indians while accepting the Paul Byrd likely cheated during his pro career, possibly while an Indian. I’m a homer if I say they haven’t proved that he used HGH so therefore he’s done nothing wrong.
One of the things that irks me (and this is probably not true in your case) are the OSU fans who speak of the school as if they went there, when they actually failed out of BGSU after 3 semesters. I’ve always felt that you have a loyalty to the school you went to, and if you didn’t attend there, then why root for them? If someone in Cleveland says they root for Ohio State because they’re from Ohio, well, why not Akron? or Kent? those two Division I schools are closer in proximity to Cleveland than Columbus is. Why does Ohio State represent everyone in Ohio? Because it’s in the capital? It’s the largest public school in the state? Any other arbitrary reason?
Don’t kid yourself in saying that the non-alumni OSU fans in Cleveland are not front-runners, because the majority are. They weren’t around in the same numbers 15 years ago.
If you went to OSU and root for the Buckeyes, that’s great. If you’re from Columbus, super. No problem whatsoever, even if you display “homerism” by my definition. I feel the same way you do about front-runners; either you mistakenly took this as a personal attack on your fandom, or you can’t identify/admit to the frontrunners in your own crowd.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
I actually did go to OSU for grad school (went to Youngstown St. for undergrad), but that’s not why I’m an Ohio State fan. I was a Buckeyes fan growing up, just like I was a Browns, Indians, and Cavs fan (I grew up about an hour west of Cleveland, in Norwalk).
People across the state root for the Buckeyes becuase it’s OHIO STATE University, not the University of Columbus or anything else like that. And it’s also the only major college football team in the state. You can be a fan of Akron, Kent St., BG, YSU, or any other “local” college and still be a fan of OSU. Those schools are not in the same conference with OSU so they’re really not competeing against each other. When I was at YSU, almost all my friends there were also Buckeyes fans (except the guys from Pennsylvania, who were Pitt or Penn St. fans). That doesn’t mean we didn’t root for YSU and go to their home games, but we always watched the Buckeyes games on TV whenever we could. I know people who went to BG, Kent St., OU, and other schools like that and they’re all Buckeyes fans, too. It’s a state pride thing.
And I don’t excuse OSU players who have run-ins with the law. It does happen at every college and it really says nothing about how a coach “runs his program” (unless the incident get too excessive). The reality is when you have over 100 players in any program (who are all 18-22 year old males) you’re going to have some who get in to trouble. It doesn’t matter if you’re talking about the football team or pre-med majors. Regular students get DUI’s, drug charges, bar fights, etc., but people don’t hear anything because they’re not football players. If you think it’s only football players getting in to trouble, or only players at certain schools, then you’re naive.
Also, I’m sure there are more front-running OSU fans in Cleveland now than there were 15 years ago. You know what - the same thing happens when the Indians or the Cavs are good, too. Nobody went to Indians games for decades, and then in the ‘90s when they became dominating all of a sudden every game was sold out and people all over northeast Ohio were wearing Indians clothing. I’ll bet you don’t see that this year. So the same thing happens with OSU - they’ve been dominating lately and they have a local coach whom everybody loves, so casual fans are becoming more vocal. That happens in every sport. I can name many family members of mine who are only casual sports fans who follow teams only when they are good. But real sports fans follow the Buckeyes, or whoever, no matter how good they are. And I’m sure there are plenty of those around Cleveland. As many as in Columbus—of course not. People in C-bus don’t have any other major sports team to root for (other than the Blue Jackets who are rather new, and it’s hockey) so many of them are psycho about the Buckeyes. I’ve lived in C-bus the past few years so I realize that. But I just ignore those idiots.
By the way, I didn’t take this as an attack on my “fandom”. I just think it was a stupid post. You can’t compain about people in OHIO cheering for OHIO STATE.
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
we’ll have to agree to disagree.
when St. Ignatius gets knocked out of the football playoffs, I don’t root for Cleveland Heights over St. X because I live in Heights (assuming Rotsky can really turn the Tigers around too). when the Dayton Flyers are eliminated from post-season competition, I don’t root on the Vikings or Buckeyes. I have an affiliation with those schools that having nothing to do with geography, and that’s how I feel about that.
to be fair, i think i strayed from my original point, that as a percentage, I run into more annoying Buckeye fans than any other team (and I’ve encountered plenty of Steelers and Bengals fans mind you). And not internet commenters… real live people. For what it’s worth, Bengals fans come in a close 2nd.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
by rolub on Aug 5, 2008 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
interesting. When it comes to high school and colleges, I certainly root regionally. I’m also a UD grad (‘05), but I’ll cheer for all the Ohio MAC teams, Ohio St., Cleveland St., heck, I’d probably even root for Wright State if there was a reason to. Exception, of course, for Xavier, which I despise. I root for the Northern Ohio High Schools to humble St. X for the same reason. Rooting for these other schools is a regional pride thing. I root for the Big Ten in non-conference games. Its good for the Midwest, its good for Ohio. I root for the MAC, especially the Ohio schools because it is good for our state and most of my friends went to these schools.
I guess I don’t notice annoying Buckeye fans because I grew up as one. But I am so glad to be leaving Cincinnati before the start of this football season, I agree, the Bengals fans are terrible to deal with.
You are a UD fan? That’s so sad. I feel the same way about them (and UC) as you do about XU, the cream of Ohio schools. I’ll bet college basketball season makes you very, very unhappy.
Lame insulting aside, I can’t agree with this. You are a fan of one team. I’m with rolub on this one. Cheering for multiple teams is nothing more than hedging your bets. Of course, being a Flyers fan, I guess you have no choice.
Proud supporter of the Cleveland.
Dude
Georgia had 8 players arrested so far in 2008. I am pretty sure Tress has had less in his whole career (I am counting 5? And Antonio Henton’s was total BS). Plus, its not his job to babysit. I think 5 arrests among about 100 18-24 year olds per year over 6 years would beat the non-athlete average at tOSU, it definitely would at some other schools. Point to his inability to win the BCS title game of late, or his conservative playcalling, but his arrest record is among the best when looking at elite level college football programs.
You hate the fans, thats fine. But Jim is a classy guy and seriously cares about character.
Sorry rolub, am going to have to call BS on this post.
So since I did not go to OSU, I am not allowed to root for them? Please tell me why.
I was born in Berea and lived in Cleveland (near Lakewood) until I was 10. During those formative years, I was a diehard Indians, Browns, AND Buckeye fan. During the summer we would watch the Indians games or listen to them on the radio. In the fall, we would watch the Buckeye game on Saturdays and the Browns game on Sundays. We even watched the Cavs sometimes too.
But then my mother decided to move to California. Am I supposed to just drop my loyalties and become Dodgers/Lakers fans? NOOOO. That is the pure definition of being a bandwagon fan.
Even after living in California most of my life, I still bleed Browns Orange, Indians Blue, Cavs Blue/Orange (now Wine and Gold)... and yessss OSU scarlet and gray. No I didn’t go to OSU for college, (I went to a smaller California state school, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo) but I always wanted to, just couldn’t move out of state. But according to you, I am a non-fan, because I am not an alumnus. Sorry, I just do not agree with you on this one.
I’m a buckeyes fan.
But Rolub’s right.
I’ve found the most annoying buckeye fans, as Rolub points out, are non-alumni. My buddies at OSU get tired of all the football hype. It really doesn’t matter too much – but there is no innate quality of “buckeye” sports that makes them so appealing. If Kent were the absolute powerhouse, year in, year out, they would be our state’s Auburn.
That, and the OSU inferiority complex is maddening.
Well, if you ever saw me watch a game, I am not one of the annoying fans that roots for OSU. I’ll sit there and cheer but I do not start walking around pointing at opposing fans, etc.
I agree there are plenty of annoying fans …. for all teams. It just so happens when there are really good teams, it seems there are a lot more nutcases (ie Yankees, Lakers, Cowboys, etc).
What I didnt agree with was his assertion that since I did not live in Columbus, nor go to OSU, I shouldn’t be a fan of theirs. That is the fault with his premise.
I don’t get it….am I not allowed to root for the Indians because I never lived in Cleveland? If people are only allowed to root for the Buckeys if they went to Ohio State, does that mean that people can only root for the Indians, Cavs, and Browns if the live in the city of Cleveland?
I root for Ohio State because that was the closest “major” college football team to where I grew up. Plus, it’s the major state university in Ohio (hence the name) and the largest so it is the school that most people from the state root for. Yes, if a hundred years ago Kent State became a major football power and was in the Big Ten then most fans in northeast Ohio would probably root for them. But they’re not, so I don’t get your point.
Growing up I only watching OSU games on TV, but when I went to grad school there and got season tickets, I fully embraced the “OSU football” experience. Tailgating before the games and watching football in a stadium with 100,000 screaming Buckeyes fans is awesome. I cannot describe how exciting the atmosphere is at those games. The only thing that compares was going to two Indians playoff games last year.
Do some OSU fans take it too far? Of course! But there are fans like that at every school, it’s just that OSU has so many fans that there are more of the idiot fans. But you cannot judge all fans like that. There are annoying Indians and Browns fans, too.
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 5, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Plus, it’s the major state university in Ohio (hence the name)
You know statistics: correlation is not causation. Besides, this is an ancillary point.
I’m not challenging the right to root for any team. You however, seem to question why you wouldn’t root for the buckeyes, as you’ve repeatedly harped on the revalatory point that they are 1. in Ohio and 2. named Ohio State.
I’m only confirming Rolub’s accounts of frustration to conform to the Buckeye Nation at all Cleveland sporting events. Period. Do not read into this too far.
I know statistics, but I don’t know what it has to do with that statement.
I don’t question why a person wouldn’t root for the Buckeyes. I question why a person would be surprised that a fan from Ohio would root for the Buckeyes. And I question why some people are frustrated with fans cheering for Ohio State at a sporting event in Ohio. That like me going to Detroit and wondering why there are so many Wolverines fans there.
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
Well you’re acting like it on this thread.
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 5, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve simply stated my opinion with reasons, as you have done the same. We disagree.
I haven’t told anyone they can’t root for OSU. I just don’t get why.
Although I admit the seriousness with which people are taking this is starting to entertain me. So continue if you (the collective “you”, not you personally, Brad) must.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
I just think it’s ridiculous that people complain about cheering for OSU at a sporting event in Ohio. I don’t know if that’s serious or not. But I hope you enjoy buying a T-shirt of the next college football national champion while you compain about front-running fans.
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 5, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I grew up in Sandusky- about 2 hours from Columbus, 1 hour from Cleveland, 2 hours from Detroit. I love the State of Ohio. I have family all over the state. I absolutely love college football. What team would it make sense for me to root for?? I have degrees from the University of Dayton and the University of Cincinnati.
Ohio is unique in that it has 1 major football school and is a very large state. Texas has UT, A&M, Tech; Pennsylvania has Pitt, Penn St., Michigan has UM and Mich St., Florida has the big three and now South Florida, California has USC, UCLA, Cal and Standford. Except New York (which is weird- they only have Syracuse and I don’t think you can say they have state-wide support), no state as large as Ohio has only one major football school. I’m not counting UC, and its clear why. They just moved into a major conference and this year they had their best football season in 40 years and there was still as much attention on UK and tOSU. Plus, Ohio is one of the best high school football areas and the best of the best players all over the state go to Ohio State.
Ohio State is a symbol for this state and its something that I have a lot of pride in, despite my lack of connection to the University. Major college athletics is largely a regional thing, and I love that. Your lack of pride or understanding of what Ohio State means to the state of Ohio’s economy, high schools, football, etc. is what really is confusing. Not that there are Ohio St. fans in all parts of the state.
It’s not Tressel’s fault for being low-character guys in, he’s just trying to better their lives!"
You know not of what you speak. Ohio State, under Jim Tressel, has brought in some of the highest character players in college football.
Do not speak ill of them unless you have met them. This is a picture perfect example of “internet buffoon caricaturizes players.” The standards at Ohio State are above NCAA requirements, above Big Ten requirements, and above university requirements.
They are Jim Tressel requirements. Do you know the most disappointing thing for Jim Tressel about last season? It wasn’t that he lost in a national title game…it’s that the team GPA dipped below a 3.0 for the first time in awhile.
Most D- 1 college team GPA’s hover around a 2.4. But, you’re correct, he is bringing in “low character players.”
If you went to OSU and root for the Buckeyes, that’s great. If you’re from Columbus, super. No problem whatsoever, even if you display "homerism" by my definition. I feel the same way you do about front-runners; either you mistakenly took this as a personal attack on your fandom, or you can’t identify/admit to the frontrunners in your own crowd.
It appears as if you are on some weird crusade against Ohio State frontrunners. Of course there are frontrunners. Do I care? No. Why would I care? They don’t affect my fanhood at all.
What I find funny is the blinking neon sign of hypocrisy in your statements:
I also purchased an LSU shirt from Steve and Barry’s a couple days before the recent BCS title game, and wore it proudly before and after the game. I’m somewhat of an instigator.
Is that not the sign of a front runner? So, in your crusade against frontrunners you have adopted the characteristics of one! How ironic.
They are Jim Tressel requirements. Do you know the most disappointing thing for Jim Tressel about last season? It wasn’t that he lost in a national title game…it’s that the team GPA dipped below a 3.0 for the first time in awhile.
Put down the joint.
You are guessing.
I am not.
I know people on the team. I know people close to the program. Don’t make yourself look like a fool to those who know.
I had a feeling you’d try to retort with some “in the know perspective.” You’ve used this on LGT before. He’s the head coach of a semi-professional football team. His athletes are hired by the university to compete. Even my school, NU, treats its football players as mercenaries.
Every coach in the nation will say “academics first.” Every coach in the nation is lying. Every fan (minus one) sees this for what it is: propaganda.
He’s paid millions of dollars to win football games.
I’ve also heard him say, read etcetera, that he pushes his players to audition for the NFL as soon as they are ready. This is why it’s so “special” that Laurianitis (SP) is sticking around. For many players, this means leaving school without a degree.
I will not continue this argument beyond this point, because it is at a cleveland.com level of absurdity.
I don’t care whether you believe if I “know” things that others would not. It does not affect the truth if you believe me or not.
Every coach in the nation will say "academics first." Every coach in the nation is lying. Every fan (minus one) sees this for what it is: propaganda.
Of course they will. The proof is in the numbers, though.
From 2001-2006, 97 Buckeyes were named academic All-Americans, the most in the conference. That is ahead of such academic powerhouses as Northwestern and Michigan. In the fall of 2006, with the team marching on towards a perfect 12-0 regular season, 56 players had a GPA of 3.0 or better.
What I said earlier about the team GPA is true. That is what he was most disappointed in.
He’s paid millions of dollars to win football games.
Of course that’s true. And he does win football games. Not quite sure what this has to do with your contention, though.
I’ve also heard him say, read etcetera, that he pushes his players to audition for the NFL as soon as they are ready. This is why it’s so "special" that Laurianitis (SP) is sticking around. For many players, this means leaving school without a degree.
Sooo….telling players to leave school if you are a first round pick is wrong?
That is Jim Tressel’s policy by the way. If you are going to receive guaranteed millions then leave. I think that’s remarkably unselfish since it makes his job harder every year.
And I’m really glad you brought up James Laurinaitis. He stayed because he wants to experience Ohio State football under Jim Tressel more.
If you were around the program during the Cooper years and compared it to now you wouldn’t know it was the same university.
Under Cooper players rarely went to class and quit on their teammates during games. They played for themselves and had no care for academics.
Now players lose playing time for not trying hard enough in the classroom. They may be passing the class, but if they skip any classes or complete assignments there are immediate consequences.
Really, it is quite obvious you don’t follow the program very closely. Most of your statements are broad generalizations.
I will not continue this argument beyond this point, because it is at a cleveland.com level of absurdity.
You are correct. You have no real argument other than “my school treats athletes as mercenaries” and then applying that across the spectrum.
You obviously have never met Jim Tressel. I think you should read his book, “The Winner’s Manual: For the Game of Life.” He is donating the profits to a construction of a new library for Ohio State. I’m sure he has some dastardly ulterior motive, though.
You may understand what I am trying to convey to you a little better if you read the novel. He is a truly remarkable person.
It’s hard to get a 3.0 in “Athletic Training.” Or whatever they take. Especially if your prof wants a chance at tenure someday.
Calling these guys “students” is, by any definition, ridiculous.
There are probably some athletes like that but don’t label them all that way. Most OSU football playes will never play a down in the NFL and will use their degree to support them the rest of their life. Just as an example, it was much-publicized that Craig Krenzel, the QB of the 2002 national championship team, was a molecular biolgy major. He’s out of football now after a very short NFL career and back at OSU going to school to be a doctor or dentist or something like that. And a recent starting cornerback for OSU was an engineering major (don’t remember which one off the top of my head). Now I’m not trying to say that they’re all scholars, and of course some of them are using OSU as purely a stepping stone to the NFL, but you cannot say that they’re all majoring in “athletic traning.”
And if you’ve ever heard Jim Tressel talk you’d know that he’s serious about academics and character. He is absolutely loved by everyone at Youngstown State—not just for his coaching job but for what kind of person and leader he is. You can say bad things about the university or some of the players but you cannot say anything bad about Tressel.
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
That link was about Charlie Weis discussing Brady Quinn. I’m sorry, but I really don’t see what that has to do with Jim Tressel. Can you please elaborate?
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
7 Family Resource Management
7 Communications
5 Business Administration
4 Business
3 Sport and Leisure Studies
3 Consumer Affairs
2 Finance
2 Human Development and Family Science
1 each African-American Studies; Social and Behavorial Sciences; History; Political Science; Health Science
This is from the previous season’s media guide. 59 players received a full page of info, and 21 of those players were undeclared. Most of those players were sophomores. The 38 players with declared majors are above.
Seriously, if you want to make generalizations put some effort into proving the generalization correct.
I’m sure there are some players that get by on easy classes. To paint such a broad stroke over every athlete in college is ridiculous, though. That can just be filed under the stereotype of a dumb athlete.
If you’ve ever heard Marcus Freeman, James Laurinaitis, Todd Boeckman, or a bunch of others speak you know they are educated individuals.
I’m finding more and more that blogs are a wonderful resource for Straw Man argument examples. Of course there are a few bright kids like Krenzel.
(And by the way, to me your list of majors proved my point about “Athletic Training”, it didn’t refute it.)
Not everyone can major in molecular biology. That seems to be what you are getting at.
Maybe you can clarify and point out which majors you deem “inappropriate” for student athletes to be taking. I’m eagerly anticipating your judgement.
Gahnki – you’ve shown some real level headedness, and obviously know a lot about OSU football, intimately, but why are you refuting this point?
You, of all people, know the demands a program like OSU puts on its players. All D1 programs are hard, let alone OSUs. Neither right nor wrong, it is simply impossible to expect athletes of this caliber to have focus in real, solid studies. This is true at my school, which has stringent academic recruiting requirements. Most players get a certain degree – I won’t name which to possibly avoid anyone who took this subject seriously – which allows them to devote an ungodly amount of time to their sport. Krenzel is the exception that proves the rule.
This does not reflect badly on football, college football, college, or OSU. This is not someone attacking a specific program, it’s merely the nature of the beast.
I am not refuting his point at all. I understand completely that a number of players don’t challenge themselves in college.
What I am wondering is what he sees on that list that he has trouble with. There are some challenging courses on that list. There is probably only one major that I can attribute to being a “slacker” course.
I am genuinely interested in what he sees that is a sign of his viewpoint.
joeee made my general point entirely.
i’ll admit to being a bit pretentious on attacking those majors… i guess. i have my M.A. in philosophy, and now temporarily (and unfortunately) work in the private sector. i won’t single out any of those majors for the same reason as joeee listed above, as well as that would deviate much too far from sports.
and honestly, i couldn’t care less about this subject. i don’t follow college sports closely at all. sorry to ruffle your feathers.
go browns!
Well, you said it as if the fact that you have a MA in philosophy entitles you to make fun of 18-22 year olds working on getting their undergrads in business, business administration, finance, history, political science, etc.. I mean, a MA in philosophy is very respectable, but a dude that gets his BA in history will be in the same position you were in after undergrad, academically.
I’m not making fun of 18-22 year olds, and of course I wasn’t admonishing History. I’m applying to History PHD programs this fall. I’m just saying, some of them (the ones in greater numbers) aren’t exactly the most rigorous of challenges.
But the more power to them, I think everyone should be able to go to college w/out being in debt. Not just the ones that can run under 4.7 in the 40.
here here to that last statement. But I’m going to restrain myself from going political.
Business administration doesn’t seem outrageously easy. I got my undergrad degree in Poly Sci, I know that humanities and social science degrees aren’t the most challenging in the world, but its not a layup. Now, the Family Studies and Sports and Leisure Studies programs do seem a little , um, light. But, if it wasn’t for football, many people would still choose these majors as something that is interesting to them, something they could succeed in and something that could help them in their future. I just don’t get the value in attacking these types of things.
You’re absolutely right. There’s no value in attacking them, in isolation. Any attack would be predicated on the entire structure of the educational system, its funding and its expenditures… as well as numerous other things that have no place here, and certainly have nothing to do with a 19 year old college student in Columbus.
I was just teasing the guys who probably wanted to beat me up in high school.
I just wanna see how close I can get the comment box to the edge of the screen.
(Eats popcorn and continues to enjoy the debates)
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
by Chris Pokorny on Aug 6, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed they do; just cooler for me personally to see it over here now ;)
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
by Chris Pokorny on Aug 6, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’ve never seen any posts with this many comment here at DBN. I like it.
In the future, however, I hope we can all be discussing, you know, the Browns.
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
agreed. This sites comments seem to be growing. Definitely a product of the consistency and quality of the content on the home page. Nice job Chris, thanks.
BS
Its all those fairweather fans coming over now that the Browns are good. I hate frontrunners, I am always so surprised that when a team does well their fan base increases in size. What a total joke, they are like, so totally annoying.
When the team is good everyone pays attention a little more. For the diehards, they are a little more diehard, for casual fans, they might not miss any games this year. For your non-football fans, you may turn on the game. Its a matter of degree and I think a better team leads to paying more attention to them by all levels of fans.
Excluding gameday threads, which have hovered around 300 at times, I believe it is the most (and growing).
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
by Chris Pokorny on Aug 6, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel bad for our Buckeyes SB Nation site.
You know…Around the Oval? ;)
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
by Chris Pokorny on Aug 6, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Gahnki -
I must “modify” my clause to not reply. I will not introduce any new arguments, but clarify a remark of mine that you misread and misunderstood.
I wrote the following:
I’ve also heard him say, read etcetera, that he pushes his players to audition for the NFL as soon as they are ready. This is why it’s so “special” that Laurianitis (SP) is sticking around. For many players, this means leaving school without a degree.
Your response:
Sooo….telling players to leave school if you are a first round pick is wrong?
I did not pass judgment on this statement – nor did I say it was bad. In fact, something I did not say but which is in tune with my cynical view of the OSU and other football teams is that it is the indefensibly correct view. These players are not students. They are effectively semi-pro. It is, therefore, in the best interest of their careers to pursue the NFL immediately. Jim Tressel agrees with me. There is no real price for leaving college early. However, it means in many cases that the player does not graduate with his degree, simply because it is difficult to graduate, like Gonzo, in three years. Therefore, Tressel is encouraging many players to leave school and subordinate their degree/education. This is the correct move for a professional coach.
I assumed that you were shepherding that statement into the other contentions. It makes much more sense now standing alone. You are correct that these players are semi-pro. However, there is a very large difference between a Jim Tressel, and some other coaches out there who couldn’t care less what their players do after their time at the university.
For such a well spoken/written guy
You don’t make a whole lot of sense. Tressel pushes his players not to DECLARE for the draft, but to petition the committee that assigns them a draft round grade. He wants them to know what they are getting into as best they can when they are deciding whether to enter the draft or not. He wants to make sure these kids are making the correct decisions with as much information as possible.
You seem to agree with this, and think that it is a good thing for a coach to do, yet, you question Tressel’s character because of it? I don’t get it. I did go to public school, though.
Aside from your points about the NCAA/Football players in general, what is it about Tressel, specifically, that makes him so bad? His players are much more well behaved than other major programs, and having hear him speak in person several times, he seems to genuinely care about character, integrity, education, and being a good person. He has never had an “I AM A MAN, I’M FORTY” moment, his players have not released video of them fake-lynching anyone, and when I have seen the players in class or on campus they are usually just well behaved, quiet, huge guys.
Hate on the system, hate on the actual football team on the field, hate on tOSU getting in to the BCS championship and not being able to win it, hate on the “the”, hate on the lower half of the school academically, hate on the annoying drunk guy who roots for us, but it makes no sense to hate on JT.
Rufio -
You should spend less time taking things I write personally or divining some non-existent attack – “I did go to public school, though” – and try to understand my intention.
Let me spell this out for you as simply as possible – I’ll borrow things I previously wrote to do so.
First:
Every coach in the nation will say "academics first." Every coach in the nation is lying. Every fan (minus one) sees this for what it is: propaganda.
Second:
This does not reflect badly on football, college football, college, or OSU. This is not someone attacking a specific program, it’s merely the nature of the beast.
Third:
I did not pass judgment on this statement – nor did I say it was bad.
I am annoyed that you are making me fill in the gaps like this, but here goes:
I have never questioned Tressel’s character. This was an assumption made by some posters here. This is fiction and is below my own standards. It didn’t happen. Go look it up.
I have never said Tressel does not value academics.
I have never said Tressel is a bad coach.
I have said that it is correct for Tressel to push his players into the NFL.
I am a fan of both Tressel and TOSU football.
Here is the comment from Gahnki which started this whole thing:
Do you know the most disappointing thing for Jim Tressel about last season? It wasn’t that he lost in a national title game…it’s that the team GPA dipped below a 3.0 for the first time in awhile.
There are myriad reasons for Tressel to run an organization with guys who do not attract negative attention to the university via conduct or ineligibility. It’s also possible he does so for some of his own personal wishes, but that’s a seperate debate – one which we have not touched nor should we right now.
THE ONLY POINT I CHALLENGE IS THE NOTION THAT ACADEMICS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN FOOTBALL, LET ALONE A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. THEY ARE NOT. TRESSEL, LIKE EVERY COACH IN AMERICA, VALUES FOOTBALL OVER ACADEMICS BY VERY DEFINITION.
That is all.
“I’m somewhat of an instigator.”
So what makes this different than the loud-mouthed OSU jerk who cusses at the opposing team?
You are just as bad since you are misrepresenting yourself. Yes, I said it. You’re just like a Steelers fan who would attend a Cleveland-Atlanta game and try to instigate Browns fans. How is that any different?
by talonk on Aug 5, 2008 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am a Buckeye through and through. Sometimes, I find it slightly annoying the obnoxiousness of Buckeye nation. However, I consider Florida fans in the great state to be bandwagon fans to an even worse level, unless you grew up in Ashtabula.
I admit that I was annoyed when the Browns drafted Braylon. Braylon struggled with the state pride for a time. However, if the Browns or Indians are playing good enough then you won’t be hearing the chants and seeing the jerseys as much at their games.
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic. - Robert S. Wieder
The only thing that I get annoyed by Buckeye fans (I am not one) is the fact that they would not want the Browns, a completely unrelated team to any college football program, to draft a player like Braylon Edwards. This is what other posters are talking about when they say OSU fans are homers. Who cares if Braylon Edwards went to Michigan? He’s the best player on our team now and we would be a worse franchise without him. That sort of bias should not affect your support of the Browns or who we draft unless that person had displayed disrespect to our fanbase in the past, which I don’t believe Braylon has. If all 7 of our picks were spent on Michigan players and we were a better team for it, then you should be pleased as a Browns fan. It doesn’t mean you are less of an Ohio St. fan.
To put it in my perspective, I went to Boston College and although we don’t have any great rivalry, my school hates Notre Dame. What was my reaction when the Browns traded to draft Brady Quinn (who I despired in college?) Completely pumped up at the time
There is no hatred deeper than tOSU-um.
But I put it aside for anyone who makes the Browns better, period.
Those people probably aren’t very big Browns fans to begin with. The amount of info they have on Braylon is probably that he attended Michigan. An educated fan know that Edwards is a talented player.
I agree.
The funny thing is that I hate a lot of Buckeye fans. The fairweather fans that boo when a collegiate player drops a pass. The ones who claim to be fans yet say Tressel should be fired for losing in the championship games.
The fans who don’t understand that it’s collegiate athletics and not professional.
I just take issue with the generalizations being presented earlier in the thread. The Buckeye fanbase is so large that you are bound to find an obnoxious fan(s) everywhere you go.
and that he dropped some big passes at UM. I was honestly torn about Edwards when we drafted him. But mainly because I didn’t think he was worthy of a top-5 pick. Turns out I was wrong. But I don’t have any problem rooting for him now, and I think most Browns-Buckeye fans feel the same. He probably will never be my favorite player, but I am glad he is on our team.
The opposite though does hurt worse. I hate hate hate that Santonio Holmes in in Pittsburgh and that Troy Smith is in Baltimore.
I couldn’t agree more with that last statement. I loved Santonio at OSU and knew he’d be a great NFL receiver, so I was absolutely crushed when he was drafted by the Steelers (why do they have to always be so damn smart at drafting?!). And now I have to watch our beloved Troy Smith with Modell’s team. Yuck. I wish their was one of those regional-drafting rules where Cleveland got first dibs on all former Buckeyes (screw the Bengals…haha). Just think how great the Browns would be with every great OSU player from the last 10-15 years.
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
yeah, I like following the careers of former buckeyes. The WRs especially. Joey Galloway is soo underappreciated.
Hey, what is David Boston doing right now? I always expect him to come out of nowhere and have a big year with that huge body.
Boston is teaching Roy Hall how to never use his talent.
Santonio once saw my friend riding his Unicycle. Yes, unicycle. He told him that it looked awesome and whatnot. My friend asks him if he wants to try it out, to which Holmes replies “haha, nah, I’d never forgive myself if I wrecked my football career on that”. My friend laughs and rides away thinking that some guy just has a big ego or is joking/lying.
Then the Texas game comes on, and he says “Hey, that’s the guy!” I said, “yeah he wasn’t joking, he’s going to be worth 8 figures in about 6 months.” True story.
You think O-HI-O at Browns games is bad?
You should see the looks when I do it at USC games.
Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.
I wrote this post when I was bored to tears at work one day, and today is the first chance I have had to read responses. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading each of them. Hopefully everyone is taking some time to recover from the punch in the mouth we all received watching the game last night. Go browns.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Non-stop coverage of the team with the best fans in the NFL, the Cleveland Browns.
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Follow DBN on Twitter
Browns Links
Local Media Sources
Official Browns Site
Orange and Brown Report
Cleveland Plain Dealer
Akron Beacon Journal
Browns Communities/Blogs
The Watercooler
Waiting for Next Year
Dawg Scooper
Dawg Talkers
Dawg Bones
The Browns Board
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
