Mocking the Draft: RB Arian Foster & CB Jackie Bates

by ChrisPokorny on Aug 4, 2008 12:30 AM EDT in General News Comment 37 comments

With the 2008 preseason just getting underway, what better of a time to bring up the 2009 NFL Draft, right? Our network's exclusive football draft website -- Mocking the Draft -- just released another edition of its 2009 Mock Draft.

Keeping the Browns at the No. 22 spot for rounds one and two, here is how writer Matt Miller sees things shaking out for the Browns:

Round 1: RB Arian Foster

Round 2: CB Jackie Bates

Not too surprising to see the running back and cornerback positions for our picks. Head on over to Mocking the Draft to chime in on Miller's selections.

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Comments

If we don’t pick a pass rushing outside linebacker in either rounds 1 or 2, I’ll go nuts. That’s a far greater need than CB.

by kwoog on Aug 4, 2008 10:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Luckily

you can usually find good players at both those positions outside the first round.

by rufio on Aug 4, 2008 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If after trading a QB we have two firsts and a second, or two seconds and a first, i’d love to go RB, OL, CB in some kind of order. Unless, of course, overwhelming value is presented at another position.

by kwoog on Aug 5, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OL = OLB, whoops

by kwoog on Aug 5, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am of the opinion that we should probably wait until this season is complete until deciding what we need to build on / acquire in the 2009 offseason.

Although, a RB/CB/LB seems like pretty obvious choices here.

by DisplacedBuckeye on Aug 4, 2008 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Right, that’s always a given that we need to wait until after this season. But, some preliminary talks about projections can be a little fun to think about for some folks.

A QB in round two isn’t out of the question either if we deal Brady Quinn.

Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.

by ChrisPokorny on Aug 4, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Arian Foster, a first round pick?

I truly doubt that.

by gahnki on Aug 4, 2008 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Arian Foster may be a 2nd rounder, and given that no juniors were in this draft its likely he would have been on the mock. As to a QB in the 2nd, god no. What we need is a veteran we can use to manage the game if our starter is injured, not some high paid fan-favorite. Lets pick up a QB in the 5th or 6th and let him be our #3.

Then we can just hire Dorsey as a coach and be done with it.

by Estonianzulu on Aug 4, 2008 3:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I would like not to take a QB that early, but it seems to be a trend among some contending teams.

Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.

by ChrisPokorny on Aug 4, 2008 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True

but it still seems a little silly to me. Green Bay taking Brian Brohm? Aaron Rodgers can’t feel good about that (not to mention the whole Favre fiasco). Philly and the Kevin Kolb thing? I’d rather go with a Colt Brennen late.

by rufio on Aug 4, 2008 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

more picks

Don’t forget it is likely we will be able to get another number 1 or 2 for Quinn after DA has another pro bowl year.

by bellar on Aug 4, 2008 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If a team was unwilling to draft Quinn with a first round pick before I don’t believe the chances are high that they would be willing to part with a pick now.

by gahnki on Aug 4, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree

A lot of teams will set their draft board and fall in love with guys who they think they can get. The teams picking in the 15-20 range had to have believed Quinn would be gone. As slow as the draft looks on T.V I am sure it would have been difficult for a team to abandon its plan and adapt that quickly.

Even if you don’t believe/care about the above, there were still 10 or so teams picking in the first round AFTER we got Quinn. If you don’t think a team like the Ravens would have picked him if he fell to them…

by rufio on Aug 4, 2008 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also, it’s not that teams weren’t willing to do it; close to one third of the league had not even made their first round pick, and I’m sure several of those teams after our selection at No. 22 would’ve taken him in round one.

Through a trade, yes, I don’t see us getting a top ten pick by any means, or a top fifteen pick. A top 20 pick is really stretching things still, but after that it could be gravy for a team. He would’ve had two years to develop a little more as a backup already (with mentoring help from Dorsey), easing some of his “rookie” aura, despite the fact that he didn’t play on gameday. I think Quinn would’ve gone ahead of every quarterback in this year’s draft except Matt Ryan, and had the right scenario come up and had we not been in the same division, I think the Ravens would’ve been interested in acquiring Quinn for a top ten pick.

Just speculation and crazy rambling involved in my theories too, of course…

Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.

by ChrisPokorny on Aug 4, 2008 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Forgot to include this: a great preseason performance, along with a start or two in the regular season (if we’ve clinched the playoffs or DA is injured) that include strong efforts, factors into my thought process of him going for a first round pick again.

Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.

by ChrisPokorny on Aug 4, 2008 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This makes a lot of sense to me. If he throws up a Kelly Holcomb in a playoff game or even a few regular season games and a team is in desperate need of their future QB, it’s not a stretch to think that BQ may look more appealing than any of the possible draft-picks this year.

by DisplacedBuckeye on Aug 5, 2008 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, how many teams that are going to be picking in the mid-late twenties that need a quarterback?

Those are all playoff teams who are likely to be set at that position. If a team was willing to give up a first rounder it would have to be someone like the Bears who maybe have a pretty good year but nothing special. They may then be slotted in the 16th-20th slot which would be fair value for Quinn, and may match up with the Bears desires.

It certainly is possible, but it will take a unique situation that matches up with the Browns perceived value of Quinn.

by gahnki on Aug 5, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Minnesota

Green Bay
Chicago
Washington
Jersey-B (Jets)
Tampa Bay
Buffalo

all teams that could be picking from 15-on who probably think or are close to thinking that all they need is that one missing piece. Obviously I am not a fortune teller, and I can’t see the future so I have no idea where they will all be drafting. Some people probably think I missed a few teams, some people probably think I included a few teams who have zero chance of picking outside of the top ten. Great. My point here is not to guess where teams will finish the season.

My point is to say that a megaton of NFL teams do not have settled QB situations. A lot of teams don’t even think they have a long term answer. Some think they have a long term answer, but really have a bust. There are simply not enough good QBs to go around in the NFL, and because of the premium placed on the QB position, Quinn or DA will have value to a lot of teams. More value than they are probably truly worth. It is not a “unique” situation with the Bears.

by rufio on Aug 6, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree

1) he was drafted in the first 2) he will have 2 full seasons of prep and practice that another team won’t have to go through. This may depend on how he looks this preseason or regular season if needed. Similar to the Rivers situation where the charger decided to go with the younger guy. I forget what they got for Brees but they went with the unproven guy because of Brees’ shoulder. I think if all goes well this season the Browns would stick with the proven Anderson but we’ll see.

by bellar on Aug 4, 2008 8:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Brady Quinn had a lot of problems coming out of college. There was a reason he dropped so far in the draft, and now teams have no way of knowing how much he has improved. If we want to shop him he must impress any time he gets a chance to play. Pre-season, mop up duty, etc.

by gahnki on Aug 4, 2008 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only reason he fell so far is b/c the run of teams from 9-22 all had tons of $ invested in QB already.

At the very worst he’s worth a 2nd rounder (plus more)... so if we’ve got a first and two seconds next year, i think this team could get stacked…

by kwoog on Aug 5, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only reason he fell so far is b/c the run of teams from 9-22 all had tons of $ invested in QB already.

No…that is pretty wrong. Quinn’s mechanics were somewhere between average and not good. He also struggled with difficult throws such as the deep out route from the opposite hashmark.

He is obviously a talented player, but some teams at the time thought the Browns were reaching by trading up to 22 and drafting him. I doubt those same teams would trade a first rounder for him if he does not impress in limited action.

by gahnki on Aug 5, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I forgot to add that I’m sure the money thing had a ton to do with some of those teams passing him up. Some of thsoe teams had pretty significant quarterback issues, though. The Dolphins passed on him, because they liked John Beck better.

by gahnki on Aug 5, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just because the Dolphins liked John Beck better doesn’t mean they are right. I am pretty confident when I say I would take Brady over Beck then and now. That Dolphins management team was a joke

by Roger Dorn on Aug 5, 2008 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

That is very true. However, it illustrates that Quinn had question marks around his ability.

He was not a must have player that some people think he is. Teams are not going to trade a significant pick unless they see noticeable improvement from Quinn in the limited action he will receive this year.

If he is the same quarterback he was at Notre Dame then he is not worth a top 20 pick. And once you get out of that range the Browns have to ask themselves if the value they will receive in return is worth giving him up.

Of course, this whole discussion is in a vacuum. If there is an injury or Quinn demands a trade everything could change.

by gahnki on Aug 5, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

“That is very true. However, it illustrates that Quinn had question marks around his ability.”

It illustrates that Quinn had question marks by a management team that was a joke, nothing more, nothing less.

10 Houston – Schaub
11 San Francisco – Smith
12 Buffalo – Losman
13 St. Louis – Bulger
14 NY Jets – Perhaps, but passed
15 Pittsburgh – Little Ben
16 Green Bay – Both guys
17 Denver – Cutler
18 Cincinnati – Palmer
19 Tennessee – Young
20 NY Giants – Manning
21 Jacksonville – Maybe, but Gerrard
22 Dallas – Romo

So, out of all those spots, one, maybe two possible teams were not completely and totally eliminated from taking him. Such is the nature of the position, and how draft spot is never related to “board grade” for QBs. In a perfect world, if those teams could trade the monster contract of the starter on their roster for the right to draft Quinn, I bet at the time quite a few would jump at the chance (San Fran, Buffalo)

If he is the same quarterback he was at Notre Dame then he is not worth a top 20 pick.

He was, and probably is.

by kwoog on Aug 5, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, all this Quinn speculation really isn’t my information. I am going off of what I have read at the OBR report. The former NFL scouts have stated many times that Quinn was very questionable coming out of Notre Dame. He developed bad habits and his arm strength has been questioned.

I trust the people reveiwing players at the OBR report, because they have more experience than me.

What I do know is that he regressed from his junior to senior year statistically. With the OBR info and the stats I can confidently form the opinion that Quinn was a huge question mark out of Notre Dame.

by gahnki on Aug 5, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True, but Savage also had him graded top 10, and he has more experience than the OBR guys.

Bottom line is you’re right, the grades other teams have on him is and always will be pure speculation. What isn’t speculation is that from 9-22, only two teams could even for a milisecond consider drafting him. It’s basically like saying he went 11th.

by kwoog on Aug 5, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True, but Savage also had him graded top 10, and he has more experience than the OBR guys.

That is very true. Phil Savage has proven that he is an expert at discovering talent.

by gahnki on Aug 5, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Charlie Weis, although biased, went on record as saying Quinn could thrive in a pro offense immediately. I know Weis has struggled thus far at ND, but he I do trust his judgment as an offensive mind

by Roger Dorn on Aug 5, 2008 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is in Charlie Weis’ interest for that to happen. Much easier to recruit when you can point and say, “I’m the reason he is succesful in the NFL.”

I know you noted the bias, but it would be really hard to trust a coach’s judgement of their own players when they can benefit from it,

by gahnki on Aug 5, 2008 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree, however, Weis only benefits if Quinn actually succeeds. Weis saying one thing or another doesn’t have much of an impact on Quinn’s actual performance

by Roger Dorn on Aug 5, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stats

He made that whole team better. Look at the year after he and Jeff Szmardxjxhxjxha left the team. They. Were. Terrible.

With Quinn and some long grass, they should have beaten USC. Without him, they lose to NAVY. His impact, regardless of stats, was huge for that team.

by rufio on Aug 6, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Draft grades at the time don’t mean crap. I get the whole “questions about his ability” thing because unless you are Brady or P.Manning, people are probably going to question your ability in some facet of the game as a QB.

But how are other “must have” players doing right now? Matt Leinart, Vince Young, even the questionably under 300lbs JaMarcus Russel? There is a long list of draft busts. This argument doesn’t make sense because we are so far removed from the time when we drafted Quinn. People will give up good draft picks for QBs, and they will throw out their draft grades if Quinn has one lights-out game.

How about DAs original draft stock? I think it is safe to say that he would be taken earlier than the 6th round right about now.

by rufio on Aug 6, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs