'The Stillers' by Joe Posnanski

by rolub on Jan 29, 2009 11:51 AM EST Comment 47 comments

I enjoyed his blog post about the article and where it came from, moreso than the actual article in the KC Star itself.

My Fanpost needs to be at least 75 words long, but because it would be ignored if it was the appropriate Fanshot, I am breaking my long-standing adherence to the rules so that this may be read.

Is that 75 words yet? No, it's only 67. By now, I should be past the 75 word minimum.

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I root against the Steelers, and have no problem doing it.

Also, this should probably be a FanShot.

by JulioBernazard on Jan 29, 2009 6:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

yes, it should be.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Jan 29, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think his story is bullshit. There is no “i understand the steelers like my family.” pure bullshit. i hate them, i hate everything about them, it makes me want to fucking puke. That guy is a tool. I hope AZ kicks the living shit out of them, i hope they embarass them, i hope worthlessturder throws 5 interceptions and gets emotionally damaged from it. there is no excuse to ever root for the steelers. i’m thoroughly disgusted.

by Dawg Nuts on Jan 30, 2009 10:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

You may not agree with that article, and that’s fine, but Joe Posnanski is the best sportswriter in the country. His blog is very entertaining and a must-read for any sports fan. He’s one of the few newspaper writers that actually uses good analysis when writing about baseball. If you’ve never read his blog before, you should definately browse some of his posts because they’re very good.

I think the point he’s trying to make is that Cleveland and Pittsurgh are very similar cities, and the people there very similar, so Browns fans and Steelers fans come from the same background. The problem is that there are too many bandwagon-jumping obnoxious Steelers fans all over the country that have no connection with PIttsburgh, they just want to root for a winning team. And they act like they’re better than everyone else because their football team is winning. Those fans are a-holes.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 30, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

fair enough, I had just read it and was heated when I replied. I’ll try to check out some of his stuff. Nice point about the Steeler fans, and living in Central PA I’ve been smothered by it for 10 straight days now.

by Dawg Nuts on Jan 30, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As another blogger pointed out on a diff. SBN site, Posnanski moved out of the Cleve when he was a ’tween. Dude roots for the Royals, and does not represent The Cleveland Voice. At all.

by joeee on Jan 31, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know how much he “roots” for the Royals; he’s lived in KC for a while and writes for their newspaper, so of course he writes about them often. But if you read his blog, he always talks about Cleveland sports and his affection for them as a kid which has continued his whole life. I don’t know why someone would say he doesn’t represent the “Cleveland Voice”; his writings about sports fits with most Cleveland sports fans that I know.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 31, 2009 7:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, he actively roots for the Royals, and only refers to Cleveland in a nostalgic frame. He is a former fan who has spent almost his entire life in KC. Next.

by joeee on Feb 1, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Besides, a Cleveland fan who writes lovingly about the Steelers and wants them to win just ain’t a Cleveland fan!

by joeee on Feb 1, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Once again, he’s a KC writer so what do you expect. I’m sure he would root for the Browns or Indians if they were in the playoffs. He still writes about the Indians frequently and his favorite player was Duane Keiper. That would be like one of us writing about Brook Jacoby or Pat Tabler years from now. How does that not “Cleveland” enough for you?

Besides, who are you (or anyone else) to determine that he’s not “Cleveland” enough. No, he’s not a Cleveland writer — but I’d still much rather read his articles than anything from Bud Shaw or Bill Livingston. He’s a great writer, whether he’s talking about the Indians or Royals or any other team. I don’t see the need to criticize him.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Feb 2, 2009 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t believe I called him a bad writer. I said he isn’t the “Cleveland Voice,” so his felating of the Stillers is not indicative of The Cleveland Opinion on the Stillers, as dawgsnuts remarked.

by joeee on Feb 2, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As much as I hate the Steelers, you have to admit that they have a great organization that is well-run from top to bottom. I hate their fans, especially all the obnoxious front-running fans in Ohio, but you have to respect the owner and the people who run the team. They’ve been consistantly good for three decades. Even the biggest Browns fans would have to admit that. So him writing that the respects the Steelers organization doesn’t make him not the “Cleveland voice.” Besides, he’s a sportswriter — he’s not going to write an article about from the perspective of a fan. Of course he’s not going to write the same things that we do on this blog.

And even if you don’t agree with his opinions in this article, that doesn’t mean he cannot write other articles that do represent the “Cleveland voice.” It’s just one article, and Cleveland fans can have different opinions. I don’t see what is wrong with saying that Cleveland and Pittsburgh are similar cities, and the people living there have similar backgrounds, so he can relate to Steelers fan because he grew up a Browns fan.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Feb 2, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He has not spent his entire life in KC. He’s spent the last 10 years there as a columnist, but I don’t think its fair to say he’s a Royals (or Chiefs for that matter) fan. He follows them, but that is for professional reasons, not personal. He also has lived and wrote for newspapers in Charlotte, Augusta, and Cincinnati.

The dude looks very favorably towards Cleveland. His writings about Cleveland are much more from a fan and nostalgic perspective compared to writings about the Royals, Reds, and other topics, which are more objective. I’d say the only thing he likes more than talking about Cleveland is Bruce.

Throw in some great, great writing on baseball in general and the Negro leagues, and you have a thoroughly entertaining blog. He is also incredibly prolific, writing for SI.com, his Newspaper and his blog throughout every week, all while writing a book.

I heart Posnanski.

by DaytonDogg on Feb 2, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly. I don’t know how anyone can read that blog and not think that Poz is a Cleveland sports fan. Of course he talks about the KC teams, but you can tell he writes with his heart when he tells stories about Cleveland teams from his childhood.

Not to mention he’s the best baseball writer in any newspaper in the country.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Feb 2, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You keep referencing your disbelief that “anyone could think XX about Poz other than what I think about Poz.” I don’t know who “anyone” is, I’m only trying to tell you how I read the blog.

Ever notice how Poz always references “growing up as a Cleveland fan?” Poz’s Cleveland teams are 20-30 years past; let me know when he’s churning out articles about Grady, Asdrubal, Fausto, and I’ll let you know I think he’s an Indians fan.

by joeee on Feb 3, 2009 2:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Let me know when you’re churning out articles about Grady, Asdrubal and Fausto and can come close to matching even 1/16th of Posnaski’s knowledge of baseball.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Feb 3, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, the classic “you have to be in the industry to have preferences about the industry remark” coupled with “I really have not understood what joeee was trying to say.” Sorry for the third person reference, but you get the gist.

Let me rephrase for you Turkmenbashi, because you seem disinterested in understanding my (admittedly verbose and numerous) comments on this topic.

I have never written that Poz isn’t knowledgeable, or just about the best popular-consumption baseball writer out there. I merely stated that the piece Poz chose to write in tribute to the Steelers should not come as a surprise, because he is not the bard of Cleveland. Got it?

by joeee on Feb 3, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No, he’s not a Cleveland blogger. He writes for a KC paper, but most of his blog posts aren’t KC-centric, they’re about teams across the country. So of course he’s not going to have an article breaking down the Indians in ‘09 because that’s not what he does. But that doesn’t make him any less of a Cleveland fan. I’ve read most of his blog posts so I think I have a good idea of how he feels, I would guess that if you asked him privately which teams he roots for the most he would say it’s the Cleveland teams. You can tell from his writings that he still has a fondness for them. So that’s why I think saying he doesn’t represent the “Cleveland sports fan” is ridiculous.

How often have you read his blog? Or are you making this judgement from reading one or two articles? Again, just because someone write something good about the Steelers doesn’t mean they’re not a Cleveland. You’d have to be an idiot to say that they don’t have one of the best organizations in the NFL. Tony Grossi at the PD has been writing that the Browns organization needs to be more like the Steelers — does that mean he doesn’t represent the “Cleveland voice”? But he must, of course, because he writes for a Cleveland paper — just like Poz must be a KC fan because he writes for a KC paper.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Feb 3, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey joeee:

This.

Got it?

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Feb 3, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Turk – you brought the hostile tone, you brought up an imaginary point about Poz that I never made. Care to explain yourself? Seriously.

by joeee on Feb 3, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t mean to be hostile, I just don’t understand what you’re trying to prove by “calling out” Pos here. He knows more about more teams than any other mainstream writer in the country, and despite his physical geographical location, he knows a great deal about the Tribe. I’m just not sure what your beef is. It feels like your typical complaint – somebody or something is popular or well-liked by most people, so you feel it is necessary to dislike it or point out its flaws for the sake of… what exactly? Being contrarian? Trying to show how non-conformist you are? I just don’t understand that mentality.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Feb 3, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ya know, nevermind. I’m being a bit unnecessary here. It doesn’t matter. My apologies, it’s been a really long weekend, just awful, and I didn’t mean to jump down your throat.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Feb 3, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Whatever, consider it dropped.

by joeee on Feb 3, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course the Steelers are good. Who on Earth thinks otherwise? But the Red Sox are good too. A lot of hated franchises kick butt – hence the hate. Poz has the journalistic freedom to write about whichever current team he wants. Why choose the Steelers? Why not the ‘09 Indians? I read the blog, and one of my buddies at college grew up in Kansas and read the KC Star for years and years. We talk about Poz all the time – very favorably, I might add. If he isn’t a KC fan, he hides it well, and if he is an Indians fan, his insistence on “past-tense-fandom” is certainly curious. But who cares who he likes? My point: as stated, was to dawgnuts, which is that it’s not a big deal for Poz to give ups to the Steelers, because he has no reason to be irrational – otherwise, a fan of the Browns.

by joeee on Feb 3, 2009 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As I said before, he’s a newspaper writer, he can’t be irrational like a regular fan. Why is that so hard to understand? He’s not going to write like we do on this blog because it’s a different forum.

And of course he’s not a Cleveland fan like he was as a kid. Two reasons — one, he hasn’t lived in Cleveland in many years and he writes about another team so of course he’s going to follow that team more than any Cleveland team. And two, he’s not a kid anymore. Most fans lose much of their irrational fandom as they become adults (not all do, and that’s a problem). He’s not going to idolize any baseball player like he did Duane Kuiper even if he was still the biggest Indians fan in the world. So of course any of his writings about this subject are going to be more past tense, because they’re memories from his childhood. Just like we write about Belle, Lofton, and Baerga.

But all this doesn’t mean he’s not still a Cleveland fan at heart. He writes about getting his heart torn out by John Elway just like the rest of us. Not many writers write about being a Cleveland sports fan like he does (including many at the PD), and he evokes memories that I can relate to, so I don’t see why it’s so necessary to let everyone know he’s not a real Cleveland guy.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Feb 3, 2009 9:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Haha, don’t mean to be a heartbreaker. As if someone like Poz heaping adoration on the Steelers isn’t heartbreaking enough.

Look, plenty of writers write for outside newspapers and continue to support their hometown in side comments. To me, Poz is just a great baseball writer. He isn’t “ours” – we don’t share allegiances so we shouldn’t expect him to share our biases. And plenty of adult, smart fans can hate on franchises out of principle. That’s all.

by joeee on Feb 3, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

he’s a newspaper writer, he can’t be irrational like a regular fan.

I don’t know about baseball writers, but Grossi’s comments about wanting to be more like the steelers are based on poor logic, if not flat out jealousy.

the steelers elevate the importance of the Browns game and they win, so if we elevate the hype around that game, we will win? No.

Romeo and others’ attitudes toward that game were rational and the way you should approach all pro games. Every game in the division is worth the same in terms of making/missing the playoffs. When you are a team like we are, every game counts if only for moral victories like getting to .500 or not being the worst in the league.

If you can “raise your game” for the steelers in preparation or in practice or in the game, you aren’t working hard enough in the rest of the games. That goes for coaches, players, waterboys, fans making noise on 3rd down in the stadium, everyone.

The only difference between the steelers games and any other game is that we feel better if we beat them and worse if we lose comparitively.

by rufio on Feb 4, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I just finished reading Posnanski’s “The Soul of America”, which is about Joe spending a year traveling with Buck O’Neil (or is it O’Neal?) as O’Neil went around the country – at age 93, the last full year of his life – promoting the inclusion of Negro League players in the Hall of Fame. It’s a terrific read. Even though the book isn’t overtly about racism in America, I came away with a clearer understanding of its impact on these players than at any other time in my life. I heartily recommend it – a quick read, funny, and should be of interest to anybody who is a baseball fan.

by drjeo on Feb 3, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I read that book also and it’s very interesting. I learned a great deal of baseball history that I did not know.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Feb 3, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t like michigan, I don’t like the steelers.

I root for both teams whenever it benefits the Ohio State University or the Cleveland Browns. Otherwise, I want them to lose in embarrassing fashion whenever possible.

I remember when OSU couldn’t seem to beat michigan, and when the rivalry was back and forth, so I am not going to act like they aren’t our “real” rival now. michigan will rebound the same way the Browns will rebound, and both rivalries are very much alive. I will try to enjoy when my team is on the winning side, but I will also try be gracious when my teams are on top.

That doesn’t mean I like my rivals, that doesn’t mean I root for my rivals. No way.

by rufio on Jan 30, 2009 4:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I hate Michigan, but I want them to win every game until the Ohio State game. The greatest OSU-Michigan game ever was in 2006 when they were both undefeated and ranked first and second in the country. That makes the rivalry great. Most OSU fans celebrated when Michigan lost to Appalachian St., but I didn’t want that to happen because all it did was make the Big Ten look bad. The rivalry is better when both teams are good and fighting for first, just like Browns-Steelers.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 30, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

College football is a different animal.

If it does benefit OSU to have michigan win, then I will be hoping michigan wins. If michigan is already headed to their worst season in history and them winning one game won’t change any kind of prestige or anything like that, I am hoping they get beaten. But, because of the BCS and the way conferences are set up, it is almost always the case that a michigan win is good for OSU.

The Browns, on the contrary, would normally benefit from a steelers loss. A steelers regular season loss directly increases the Browns’ chances of winning the division. If it were possible that a steelers win would actually help the Browns (say in some sort of tiebreaker situation), then I could root for the steelers. But, it is almost always the case that a steelers loss will be either neutral or good for the Browns. In those cases, I root against the steelers.

I will gladly accept several years where the Browns are phenomenal and the steelers are no where close. Maybe once we get a few Super Bowl wins I can think about the sake of the rivalry or a clash of AFC powers or something being good for my entertainment. Until that happens, I will be rooting against the steelers.

by rufio on Jan 30, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree completely — rivalries in college are different than the pros. My point was that usually it’s not good for OSU if Michigan loses (last year notwithstanding). But it usually helps the Browns if the Steelers lose, because they may be fighting for just one playoff spot, as you said. And you’re right that I’d love to see a decade or so of the Browns dominating the Steelers to make up for the last decade, but it feels much better to beat Pittsburgh when they’re good. Of course I wouldn’t be sad if they went 0-16 next year! ;)

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 30, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Word.

by rufio on Jan 30, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would settle for beating the Steelers, period, regardless of whether they are good or not. I want the Steelers to go through a 10-year drought when they win 3 or fewer games a year and the fans get miserable and hostile and all the fairweather bandwagoners around me in Central Ohio have to find another team to frontrun with because the Steelers suck so badly. Steelers fans are obnoxious, especially the bandwagoners. I want Steelers fans to experience humiliation and defeat, especially on the world’s largest stage.

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Jan 31, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+100,000,000,000

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 31, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1,000,000,000

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 31, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just noticed I posted that twice — didn’t mean to.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Feb 1, 2009 12:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think I just dislike bandwagon fans in general.

by rufio on Jan 31, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I root for Michigan to lose every game like it’s a disease.

by gahnki on Jan 31, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is one of the greatest things i have ever read. Sure I hate the steelers as much as the next browns fan but it was great!

by drunkrooster on Jan 31, 2009 6:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Cleveland still has a team?

Love checking out Browns’ talk from time to time.
Do you realize that most Steeler fans forget that there’s still a
team in Cleveland? Beating that Browns was an objective every
year for a time, but now it’s just a given. Ohio’s own Ben Roethlisberger
owns both “teams” in that “state”, has twice as many Super Bowl rings as
the Browns have ever had, and everyone in Pittsburgh or has the common
sense to cheer for the greatest and most successful football franchise in NFL
history knows, that the Ravens are the only threat to the Steelers year in and year
out. Not only does Pittsburgh own your pathetic “didn’t know you had a team again”
arse, but the team that you built into a contender left in the middle of the night for
Baltimore, only to promptly win a Super Bowl.
Understand your place in the scheme of things: you’re 4 wins total btw the Steelers and Ravens every year, nothing else.

by dr. weldose on Feb 21, 2009 5:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

King of Short-term memory

by Roger Dorn on Feb 21, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I never understood the physchology of a fan who equates a teams success with his personal success. In short, I am willing to bet that he is not a real doctor.

by gahnki on Feb 22, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs