Eric Mangini Replaces Romeo Crennel as Head Coach
by Chris Pokorny on Jan 7, 2009 9:47 PM EST
in General News
117 comments
Get used to that expression Browns fans.
The Cleveland Browns will hold a press conference Thursday morning to announce that Eric Mangini is the new head coach of the Cleveland Browns. Besides having the title of "head coach", it is expected that Mangini will have more control of the talent on the 53-man roster than Romeo Crennel ever had.
Mangini's staff is already in the process of being assembled.
Offensive Coordinator: Things aren't looking good for Rob Chudzinski. Originally, reports came in that Jets OL coach Bill Callahan would be offered the Browns' offensive coordinator job. However, the Jets are able to block that from happening. NFL.com's Adam Schefter reports that Jets QBs coach Brian Daboll has emerged as the favorite to be Cleveland's next offensive coordinator.
Defensive Coordinator: The Browns hired former Raiders defensive coordinator Rob Ryan to fill the same position in Cleveland, according to NFL.com's Adam Schefter. Ryan ran a 4-3 defense in Oakland, but he has experience controlling a 3-4 defense. Personally, I want to see the 4-3 scheme in Cleveland again. Ryan, a former head coaching candidate with other teams, certainly provides more experience than Todd Grantham and Mel Tucker had.
I wonder if Ted Dashier's control of special teams will remain in tact. The Browns have had success with Phil Dawson, Joshua Cribbs, and several other special teamers the past two years.
UPDATE (12:11 AM Thursday): From the Plain Dealer, regarding former head coach Romeo Crennel:
New Browns head coach Eric Mangini and fired coach Romeo Crennel reportedly agreed Wednesday that there was not a place for Crennel on Mangini's staff, such as defensive coordinator, sources close to the situation told The Plain Dealer.
Crennel could be willing to stay around in an advisory role, the source said. But ESPN's Michael Smith reported Wednesday night that Crennel and Mangini would part ways.
I didn't expect him to stay, and this seems to all but confirm that.
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Not a fan of the Mangini hire. I believe he was a tad overhyped coming from NE. But, I think this move is saved by the hiring of Rob Ryan. He was being wasted in Oakland and he will be an asset here in Cleveland.
Definitely a pleasant surprise to bring in Ryan.
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
by Chris Pokorny on Jan 7, 2009 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not so sure. Isn’t he the anti-Ryan. I mean, unlike his dad and brother, I think his defenses have always been the no attack, drop 7, bend but don’t break, style? And doesn’t this fit with the Belicheck/Romeo/Mangini mold? This is the biggest reason I’m not more excited about mangini. I want a major defense scheme shake up and I just don’t see it happening with someone from the same school as Tucker and Crennel.
phenomenal hire with ryan, no question. instant credibility in the locker room w/ ryan.
i could only know less about daboll if i didn’t know his name, so i reserve comment there. let’s hope he’s ready and able to develop brady’s skill set.
as to mangini, i like it. given the other options, and the fact that he has 3 years under his belt in the largest and (arguably) toughest sports market in the country, i think he ought to come in here and get moving in the right direction quickly…after having had many of his ups and downs on the jets’ dime.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 7, 2009 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
To warm up to the Browns community immediately, it is expected that Mangini will name Derek Anderson his starting quarterback during the press conference tomorrow.
;)
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
Hopefully he trades one of them so we don’t have to go through another season of guessing who is the QB. I’d rather risk not having a QB then the controversy of two QBs who could be starters.
I know your a big DA fan but did you really hear that or are you pulling our leg?
Pulling your leg (hence the wink). However, I would not be surprised in the least if Anderson is given a chance to compete for the job.
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
by Chris Pokorny on Jan 7, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
I am beginning to think that would be the best course of action. Trading him now before the draft we would probably sell our stock at it’s lowest value. Mangini should get a look at both guys unless he/the new GM really know something we don’t.
As much as I want to avoid the huge roster bonus and as much as I want more picks in this draft, we might have to keep him around.
Yuk. Anderson is at his lowest point in the last couple years, but is there any reason to think it will not only be lower as time goes forward?
I think you offer DA to anyone for a high 3rd round pick or better and if there are no takers, tell him he is a backup and be done with it.
Can we pay a backup that much? I mean I know we like to try to be the Patriots, but cmon.
I am not saying we should start him, we should just wait until someone offers us something worth it. My guess is that won’t be before this year’s draft. If someone offered us something decent I would pull the trigger now, I just am not sure if that would happen.
Plus I think Mangini should/will get a look at both guys at least in a minicamp before he puts the future of the franchise on somebody’s back. That wouldn’t be an easy thing to do for me if I were coming in as a new coach/GM.
Is Anderson going to healthy by camp? How is his rehab going?
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
I’ve covered this before. DA and BQ’s combined salary isn’t that much. It is 9M for 2009.
The need for a decent backup QB in this league is tremendous. Ask any Dallas fan how they feel about Brad Johnson. How do you feel about Ken Dorsey? With a new OC Dorsey is done. You keep DA as a backup even though he is paid as the starter. The media and fans want BQ anyway, so the controversy is minimal. You bring in a young guy as 3rd string and groom him for the future backup roll.
Of course he is tradeable for the right value, but to keep him as a backup is also a good value even with his contract
Maybe I should delete my comment before I see it on RotoWorld ;) “Chris Pokorny of Dawgs By Nature reports that Mangini is in favor of Anderson staying with the club”.
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
by Chris Pokorny on Jan 7, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
lol
I’ll get in touch with the staff there for you =P
by stalkingbamby on Jan 7, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
A couple of odd things I heard today(from the plain dealer)-maybe they aren’t true anymore:
1. Crennel was a strong candidate to stay as Defensive coordinator
2. Anderson would stick around, at least until his bonus kicked in this Spring at which point his salary decreased thereby making him more tradeable.
3. In his interview Mangini stated something to the effect: “…I can win with brady Quinn.”
I guess that points to Anderson and Crennel going away….I do like the Rob Ryan hiring
Stay w/ the club until you’re offered a 2nd round pick prior to paying his bonus you must mean.
by dawginphilly on Jan 7, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
The team really needs to move on from having 2 QBs. In a perfect world, we’d be able to hold two competent quarterbacks, but for the stability of the club, we need to make a choice. All things considered, Quinn is going to be that guy. Just preparing you for the inevitable move right now
The best two-QB system is like what the Steelers had. A guy they trust in Ben Roethlisberger, and then a one-year castoff in Byron Leftwich, who knows he is there for one year just to get his name out there again.
On the same note though, I thought the Cowboys were set up decently with Brad Johnson as their backup. Yikes.
As far as this team goes, you’re definitely right — no more controversies!
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
by Chris Pokorny on Jan 8, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
Or you have two legitimate candidates, like Arizona, until one of them makes it clear he should be the guy. Our guys just haven’t been trying hard enough to be the guy, I guess.
by cleveland teamer on Jan 8, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
This is a strong hiring until he is 2-4. With that being said, I like his experience, I like his attitude, and I like his hiring of Rob Ryan (no mo’ Romeo). Why keep Chud? He showed a consistent dislike of the run, and that burned us during 2007’s run and quite often this season.
I’m a strong believer that Brady Quinn needs to show he’s our QB. DA is much too inconsistent, and when the weather turns nasty, basically November 15th on (6 games a year), his down the field style is nullified.
MANGINI’S SUCCESS HINGES ON BRADY QUINN.
Really?
Mangini is the answer? Eric Mangini? Seriously?
Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.
Definitely a less prominent hire after the two-season rumor of getting Bill Cowher.
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
by Chris Pokorny on Jan 7, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
I’m so relieved we didn’t get Cowher. I’m mildly pumped about both of these moves, even if this excludes Pioli.
not sure about the relief on the cowher front, but i’m with you in the state of mild pumpedness. even without pioli, i think mangini’s a good-to-very-good move.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 8, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Nugget Between Mangini/Crennel
Regarding the usage of Patriots receiver Troy Brown as a defensive back…
Crennel credited current Jets coach Eric Mangini for the off-the-wall idea. "It was a need because of an injury situation and Mangini said, ‘What about Troy?’" Crennel said of his then-defensive backs coach. "He had some quickness, so we used him in practice and he looked pretty good, so we used him in the game."
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
As soon as Mangini
was fired, It appeared that all other coaches fell to rear of the line. Lerner had his coach and the rest will fall into place.
I am OK with the hire. As mentioned he coached in a media market that is brutal ( listen to WFAN everyday) and they rode Mangini down the stretch of season like a beat up donkey. Cleveland will be a marshmellow compared to New York.
WIn, instill some fire into this team, and have accountability on this squad.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
What makes you think he’ll be able to instill any sort of fire in this team? That was one of the major complaints about him in NY. He just stands there, emotionless, trying to emulate daddy Belichick. Exactly like Crennel.
Why is it that people think that fist-pumping, yell-in-your-face-on-the-sideline coaches are the only kind of coaches who can motivate an athlete? There’s more than one way to motivate an athlete. Besides, these guys are professionals – shouldn’t they have some motivation to start with?
Besides, these guys are professionals – shouldn’t they have some motivation to start with?
Clearly, many of them don’t. Whatever the reason is, it’s a fact.
Why is it that people think that fist-pumping, yell-in-your-face-on-the-sideline coaches are the only kind of coaches who can motivate an athlete?
One of the Jets “veterans” spoke anonymously on the Mangini firing, saying something to the effect that he and others wished they could get any kind of a positive reaction out of him. I don’t think he was requesting a Cowher-like face spitting “HELL YEAH!” or a Crennelesque quiet hug, just something other than the frowny, grumbling, lifeless impression of Belichick Mangini seems so fond of.
Besides, does a team that tanks a what… 9-3?… season seem more firey motivator or failed schemer?
As Browns fans, we’ve seen a lot of that fist-pumping attitude work well. Cowher, Schotty, even Butch Davis, who while credited as being a terrible talent evaluator and ultimate failure, is still regarded by many here in Cleveland as a good football coach. It’s more fun to root for the guy who is willing to hug a player in excitement or berate a player in public because of a bonehead play. We just got done watching Crennel fail by standing on the sidelines with a passionless, possibly-clueless look on his face. Never did I get the impression watching him that he cared passionately about his team’s constant failures.
When as a fan, it seems like the coach doesn’t share your frustration with losing, why wouldn’t you resent disconnect and want to root for a coach who, at a minimum, would let you know he shared your frustrations?
Tampa was also 9 -3 and looked to have a sure 1st round bye until they went into a free fall. Their coach, Jon Gruden is as animated as they come yet the team dropped it’s last 4 games. Those Rah Rah guys eventually get tuned out if they can’t back up their hot air with solid football knowledge or are inconsistent in their dealings with players.
I would like to see a bit more emotion from our head coach but I don’t think their demeanor is a huge factor in whether or not a team plays hard for them.
IMHO, the key is knowing how to get the most out of each player while still remaining true to your core team philosophy. You may have to get in one guys face to motivate him while another one needs constant reassurance. Knowing how to juggle the different egos is key.
Look at Tom Landry, Tony Dungy and Bill Belecheat… all successful and all very mellow on the sidelines.
No, I’m not saying that in the slightest. Although I am not a psychologist, I think it should be pretty clear that there is no one method that will motivate ALL athletes, ALL the time. Some athletes will be motivated by a yell-in-your-face guy and some athletes will be motivated by a quiet word of praise. A coach who tears up the sidelines may be fun to watch, but he also may be hell to play for, especially if he’s volatile and inconsistent.
by woodsmeister on Jan 8, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
No I am saying there is no way you have the ability to define what “the motivation to start with” is in quantifiable terms and then prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that “many” (yet another term without a clear definition) professional football players are not properly motivated “to start with”.
You simply “feel” or “think” or “believe” that they are not properly “motivated to start with”
by rufio on Jan 8, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We just got done watching Crennel fail by standing on the sidelines with a passionless, possibly-clueless look on his face.
It’s the clueless part that is the problem. I have no complaints about a stoic coach, but bewildered stoicism like Crennel’s is obviously bad. What’s wrong with being a “passionless” winner like Belichick?
All I ask for in a coach is intelligence and competence. Manage the game well, prove that you know what you’re doing, and success is likely to follow. The coach can motivate the team by being smart and professional, and earning their trust. I don’t think he has to be fiery to motivate players.
by cleveland teamer on Jan 8, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not that I disagree that stoic coaches can be successful, it’s that I think it’s natural to prefer a boisterous coach after seeing a stoic one fail.
It’s just another thing not to like about Mangini.
Yeah, I agree. Trying to look at the bright side of this hire.
Emotional coaches are definitely more entertaining, at least.
by cleveland teamer on Jan 8, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
I’m being overtly pessimistic on the hire, and that has as much to do with Lerner as it does with Mangini.
I don’t think Mangini has proven he can be effective. I don’t like how the last two weeks has played out with Lerner. Therefore, I’m going to criticize until I see positive results. No more blind enthusiasm for me.
Go Cavs!
sorry to nitpick, but the jets blew an 8-3 record, not 9-3, and as has been pointed out earlier, favre’s 2 TDs/9 INTs performance down the stretch had to have at least as much to do with the collapse as mangini’s lack of pom poms.
the afc was tough this year…the pats won 11 games and didn’t make the playoffs. i’m not sure i’m willing to pin the whole of the jets issues on mangini when his HOF qb went in the tank against.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 8, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Listen, we all are frustrated Brown fans. We all have are opinions on what works and what does not.
IMO this team was not ready to start the season, injuries mounted, in house bickering, rumors of who will be fired and then Quinn getting punched in the face.
I just want accountability, and some positive energy on the field. I am not calling for a coach to grab the facemask of a player and twist his neck. However, Romeo’s method was not working, and Mangini’s pissed off look might work.
I just hope he has learned from the mistakes he might have made in NY.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
I’m okay with this hire, not jumping up and down excited. I wanted Pioli but for whatever reason that didn’t happen. I like the Rob Ryan hire; Oakland’s defense was pretty good the past couple years even though the team was terrible. Mike Greenburg was talking about this hire on Mike & Mike this morning (he’s a big Jets fan) and said that he think Mangini is a very smart guy and can learn from his mistakes in his first job like Belichick did. (He also said that he though Mangini needed a couple years as an assistant before becoming a head coach again to think about what changes he needs to make; hopefully he can improve without doing that.)
It will be interesting to see who they bring on as GM. I was hesitant about Kokinis at first but read some good things about him in the PD yesterday (posted them in another thread). I’d also be happy with that guy from the Eagles. I’m sure when they talked to him about setting up an interview they told him they were interested in Mangini, so he must be fine with working with him. I guess we’ll just have to hope that Lerner is making the right decisions.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
I’ve been taking a lot of heat from my co-workers here in New Jersey. Quarterback controversies can ruin any head coach. I just hope that we do not run a 3-4 defense. Mangenious seemed to ruin the Jets personel with that decision last year. The Romeo Crennel era is finally over. Yeah!!!!
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic. - Robert S. Wieder
That’s fine, as long as its not a non-blitz, shell, drop 7 or 8, bend-but-dont-break 3-4 defense that nobody is afraid of. It may be moderately effective. But its ceiling isleague average. No chance for greatness.
That the Jets were 7th in the league in sacks and rush D encourages me. Still, I think we are getting the wrong Ryan.
This is my favorite part of this hire so far:
about the 3-4 D:
Likes to form 4-3 concepts out of the base 3-4 front. You’re not married to the concept of always adjusting the defensive line.
I am interpreting that as not as much 2-gapping, being able to stunt and blitz, and rushing at least 4.
that’s a nice way to look at it. I’m being pessimistic here, but isn’t that what Crennel did? Yeah, we were a 3-4, but Wimbley’s constant “blitz” made it more of a 4-3 conceptually.
Wimbley did not “constantly” blitz, especially this year. When we rushed 3 and dropped 8, we usually rushed the DEs and NT.
I believe what he means by “4-3 concepts” is not simply rushing 4 guys but attacking gaps and not reading and reacting (waiting).
Maybe that’s just me getting my hopes up.
You are right- Wimbley did drop in coverage more this year. Still, its the creativity of positioning in the front 7 and where the 4th (or 5th/6th!) rusher is coming from (both actual location and the player that I worry won’t improve under a guy from the same philosophy as Crennel/Belicheck.
Like I said, I’m a little encouraged by the Jets sack numbers and rush defense. I’d like to find the sack rate numbers by team though. Maybe I"ll look around on footballoutsiders for a bit.
All I know is that someone, somewhere, in some point in time in the Bellichick system knew how to confuse the QB and get pressure on him.
Romeo didn’t bring that here. I pray Mangini can.
We don’t even need to bring more pass rushers, we just need to be effective at pressuring the QB any way that a coach chooses to do it. I can’t say I don’t love a fancy blitz, but as long as we can get pressure we’ll have a better chance of getting Ws.
Thoughts from the presser so far:
- We are definitely running a 3-4. Mangini likes the flexibility of it.
- The quarterbacks seem to each have a chance to win the job. He said he won’t make a decision until he sees them both in the huddle.
- He believes in accountability. Has any coach ever said he doesn’t? He said that accountability meant to him that he would have guys who played with a “passion for the game.”
- His offense is a blend of the digits (?) system, the New England system and the West Coast system. He has guys from all of those systems on his staff.
- One specific question about the dissapointment of Winslow and Edwards this year he turned into a rambling answer about how every team starts over at the start of every year. He seemed to be happy to have both of those guys.
- He is going to “get to know” the staff already here. Based on his answers to other questions, I would say that the era of Tucker and Chud is done.
- He dodged every question about the Jets. Clearly didn’t want to talk about that.
- The media jumped all over the absence of Randy Lerner. I cannot imagine how his presence would have helped. Mangini is clearly the face of the franchise now and said as much himself.
Tony Grossi has a recap of the press conference here. He said he is “light years” ahead of where he was three years ago as far as being prepared to be a head coach. He’s talked to people about being coordinators but nothing is set yet.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 8, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, you did a much, much better job than Grossi. I just linked to that so people could read the entertaining comments that accompany every cleveland.com article.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 8, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
We got Issues
1. Hiring Mangini is a step in the right direction. The man works his butt off (see: Bilicheck’s comments on Mangini). His departure from NY was more about Favre falling apart down the stretch than it was about Mangini.
2. Quinn should be the guy. Hopefully, Mangini will see that Anderson is a West Coast guy. He’d much rather play in Seattle, San Francisco, or Oakland than in Cleveland. Quinn is the natural choice for future success.
3. Ryan’s 3-4 D could be a detriment. With the premier teams in the league featuring the tandem running back backfields (Titans: White/Johnson, Ravens: McGahee/McClain, Steelers: Moore/Parker), it’d serve a defense well to play some serious smashmouth football.
Screw the “bend but don’t break” philosophy. I’d rather see a team held to a couple of 3-and-outs, a fumble or two, and then pick up 45 yards on a big plass play before being held to a field goal than I would a series of 12-yard pass plays followed by a TD. That scenario describes what happened in Oakland last year. Opposing offenses had a field day.
That said, I think Ryan is a great hire. He just needs to go back to a 4-3.
DP
Peter King on the Mangini hire, and why Lerner acted so fast. He calls it “compelling and risky.” Very interesting article.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
i would
be glad about mangini, except that it cost us a chance at top-shelf GM candidates pioli and heckert.
kokinis hasnt even been involved in college scouting the past 5 years.
Pioli would’ve been vastly better for this franchise than Mangini will prove to be.
Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.
by BringBackKosar on Jan 8, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
this is a pretty ridiculous statement. i wanted pioli more than mangini, too, but to say that pioli would have been a lock over mangini is impossible to assert so categorically.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 9, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Take from Sporting News
I wrote last week that Mangini was fired too quickly by the Jets, and that he will make a good NFL head coach one day. Apparently, Browns’ owner Randy Lerner feels the same way. Mangini’s Jets faltered down the stretch this season, but that does not make him a bad coach. Not when Brett Favre threw two touchdown passes and nine interceptions over the final four games.
Interesting how Jets owner Woody Johnson wants Favre back, but sent Mangini packing, even though he had a winning record in two of his three seasons as Jets coach. Mangini will turn only 38 later this month. And Mangini undoubtedly learned a lot from his three seasons with the Jets, in a high-pressure media market like New York.
Many NFL head coaches have done better in their second job after being fired the first time, including Mike Shanahan, Bill Belichick and Tom Coughlin. Nobody is saying Mangini will win a Super Bowl with the Browns, but you would have to guess the Jets’ experience will help make him a better coach. And with plenty of coaches to choose from, still very early in this year’s coaching carousel, Lerner jumped on Mangini like a trampoline, confident he can take the Browns to the next level.
This also increases the possibility that the Browns will hire George Kokinis as their general manager. Kokinis, the Ravens’ director of pro personnel, is a friend of Mangini’s
Oh The People You Meet When Your Out of Ammo.........
Not to start anything but . . .
Does anyone think the sudden ouster of African-Americans will cause any kind of dissension on the team?
I’m just bracing for Jim Brown to weight in on this.
Na — on all the issues to worry about, this should be at the very bottom.
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
by Chris Pokorny on Jan 9, 2009 8:38 AM EST up reply actions
This wasn’t an Auburnesque controversial decision where we passed over a seemingly more/equally talented African American man for a White one with arguably less of a resume. Black coaches in the NFL also seem to have a more level playing field than college coaches so I think it will be less of a big deal here.
It might cause a disruption but a lot of the players in the NFL seem to acknowledge that everything in the NFL is about business.
“Besides having the title of "head coach”, it is expected that Mangini will have more control of the talent on the 53-man roster than Romeo Crennel ever had."
ARGH! That shit almost never works. It didn’t work for Holmgren or Mike Shannahnahannahan, and it sure as hell didn’t work for Butch fucking Davis.
God, I hope I’m wrong……
Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.
to say mangina will have more control over the 53 than romeo is simply to say he’ll have ANY control over the 53. as has been well established, savage had 100% control, romeo 0. i don’t see anywhere that mangina is also going to be the GM, just that he’ll be more involved than romeo. this reads quite consistently with the message of “one team” in the front office.
let’s not try to create overreactions, please.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 9, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Why wasn't Mangini interviewed or even mentioned
in conjunction with any other job? A week and a half went by. Did Mangini or Lerner indicate neither wanted anything else but the other?
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
I have a feeling that Lerner extended an offer that was meant to discourage Mangini from interviewing elsewhere. Not that it was a “take it or leave it” offer, but that it was enticing enough in both financial terms and control given that he was unlikely to receive it anywhere else. The fact that he was hired before the GM makes me believe this even more.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
I’m gonna put my football ignorance on display again. First, Mangini wants to stick with the 3-4 because he likes the flexibility. However, he prefers the bend-but-don’t-break approach, and from what I’ve read so far, his D isn’t very exotic. So why insist on the 3-4.?
And if you’re set on a 3-4, why would you want a DC who has been running a 4-3 (but has some experience with a 3-4)? Also, Ryan’s defense hasn’t exactly been lighting things up. Someone earlier said that was a result of poor drafting and FA signing, e.g., lack of talent on the field. Ultimately, the Ryan part doesn’t bother me as much if he truly has run a successful 3-4 and if the problem really lay in the talent.
But that brings me back to the idea of the flaccid style 3-4. Can such a defense be effective on it’s own, or does it have to be backed up with a consistently prolific offense?
First, Ryan should not be judged by the Raiders. The Raiders are going to fail as long as Al Davis has control of that team. They are a mess, and their defense is actually decent considering how terrible their offense is and how many HCs they’ve had recently.
The 3-4 is typically thought of as “more exotic”, and certainly was when NE was winning super bowls and Steve Spagnuolo had not yet won one as the Giants DC. Really, if you have versatile players and are creative, you can be “exotic”. It does not matter how many players have their hands on the ground.
Same thing with the coordinator; if he knows conceptually what you are trying to do (i.e. send more people than the offense can block, overload a side, confuse a QB by moving people around, etc.) then he should be able to work with 2, 3, 4, or 5 people with their hands on the ground.
Does Mangini in fact prefer the bend-don’t-break? I have no knowledge of this. There have been tons of 3-4 defenses who have carried the load for their offenses. The Ravens are doing it right now. They call themselves a base 3-4, but run a lot of different looks up front. They have been a base 3-4 for a long time (on and off) and usually are good despite their usual lack of offense.
Rating head coaches, I would give Shanahan a 90, Mangini a 70 and Romeo a 40. I would have been happier to land Shanahan. We will see improvement from Mangini because, unlike Romeo, Mangini wil manage the clock and make better in game decisions. And perhaps, the Browns will show up and play like they are ready to play more often, though, that remains to be seen. We should see less mindless penalties and a more prepared and disciplined squad. I’m not saying Mangini can’t develop into a top flight head coach, but Shanahan is already there.
Had Shanahan made himself more available to interview with Lerner, perhaps Lerner wouldn’t have pressed the panic button.
Perhaps Shanahan was a 90 with number 7 on the staff, but since he has put together just one playoff win out of the mostly lackluster AFC West. Not to mention the collapse of epic proportions this season. Plus- he’s in line to make about $20M just sitting on his ass next season, so he was probably inclined to take a season off.
Romeo maybe is a 40….on a scale that ranges from 40-100. :-)
This year was not Shannahan’s fault. I live in Broncos country and they ONLY had a passing game. 7 RB on injured reserve = no running game. Their defense also suffered injuries (Champ Bailey) but mostly had no talent.
If you want to blame Shannahan the GM, that’s fine. He has not done a good job drafting. But Bill Walsh could not have coached the Broncos in to the playoffs this year.
How long would it take to re-tool our personnel to be decent in the only offensive system that Shanahan is capable of coaching? 2 year? 4 years?
by woodsmeister on Jan 9, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Whatever personnel Shanahan works with will produce more than Mangini in 2009. Mangini is still taking the head coach graduate courses. Shanahan holds the degree. Whether Mangini ever becomes as qualified as Shanahan remains to be seen.
Now, if you mean that Shanahan can only coach one way, a way that requires very special personnel, that is a slap at his abilities. We can agree that good coaches build around whatever talent is available. That is why Shanahan had a large contract and league wide respect.
Really? So if Shanahan goes to Detroit or Kansas City, you’re guarenteeing that those teams will finish with a better record than the Browns next year?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
The true way to judge a coach is how well he does with the same people. They woudn’t be coaching the same people.
My contention is that, with the same squad, Shanahan would get more out of the Browns.
Now, I understand that Shanahan has strong preferences for specific types of offense, but to assume that’s all he can coach, sells him short.
I was just responding to this statement:
Whatever personnel Shanahan works with will produce more than Mangini in 2009.
I thought you were saying whatever team Shanahan coaches in ‘09 will be better than the Browns. I didn’t know you meant if the were coaching the same team, because obviously that’s not possible.
Honestly, we don’t know if Shanahan will be a better coach for the Browns than Mangini. Yes, he did win two Super Bowls, but that was over a decade ago. We don’t know how he would fit with the personnel the Browns have. Over the past three years, Mangini’s teams have been better than Shanahan’s. I don’t know who would have been the better coach for the Browns; only time will tell if Mangini was the right choice.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 10, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
it’s pretty ridiculous to say that shanahan is only capable of coaching a single offensive system. for one thing, you have absolutely no idea if that’s true. the offense that he has run in denver has been so wildly successful (their defense has been their achilles) that’s he’s had no reason to change it up, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t. i have no idea if he would be a better coach than mangini for the browns, but saying he’s only a one-trick pony is just silly.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jan 10, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Fast TE who can catch but isn’t that good of a blocker: check.
Big WR who drops balls but is a freak athlete: check.
Any human with legs to be a RB: check.
A fast, athletic offensive line: LT and LG check, C, RG, RT probably not.
Also missing: 1-2 WRs who are at/above average NFL 2nd and 3rd WRs.
2 seasons tops.
does anyone here know anything about Chris Polian? having cut his teeth alongside his dad, one of the best GM/personnel guys in the business, he seems like a decent candidate. plus, at 37, seems to fit randy’s hope to put together a young front office to build a dynasty.
just a thought. i know nothing about him except that he went to John Carroll, so he’s gotta be good.
Really nice story by Mary Kay Cabot in the PD today about Mangini’s start in Cleveland as a ball boy under Belichick, and how he worked his way up the ladder. It’s amazing how much talent Belichick assembled in Cleveland while he was there. The article talks about Mangini, Kokinis, and Pioli sharing an apartment in Berea when they all worked for the Browns — it’s amazing where those men ended up considering they all started at the very bottom. The article gives a good background on Mangini’s rise from ballboy to public-relations intern to video assistant to assistant coach.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
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