Post-Game Thread: Another Loss to Pittsburgh
by Chris Pokorny on Oct 18, 2009 4:46 PM EDT
in General News
601 comments
Will it ever end?
The Browns suffered another loss to the Steelers Sunday, this time losing by a final score of 27-14. The Browns started the game using the Wildcat formation early and often with Joshua Cribbs. It started off effective, until the drops at the wide receiver position started to plague the Browns again. After Cribbs was intercepted, the Steelers later went on to go up 14-0.
Then, Cribbs' abilities played a factor again, as he returned a kickoff 98 yards for a touchdown to keep the Browns within striking distance heading into halftime.
Derek Anderson had his best drive of the game to start the second half, connecting several times with Mohamed Massaquoi en route to an offensive touchdown. The Browns were down just 17-14 with 11:39 left in the third quarter.
Our offense couldn't muster anything after that. There was a period in which both teams traded turnovers, but eventually, the Steelers put the game away thanks to the passing of Ben Roethlisberger.
It wasn't a horrible game to watch, but when you're dominated 543 to 197 in total yardage, you shouldn't expect a victory.
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Trade Brady Quinn to KC for Brodie, trade Derek Anderson for a pick(s), maybe trade down in the draft, draft Greg Hardy, the best S/CB available, Brandon Lang, and Levi Brown, and hire me as GM.
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Oct 18, 2009 4:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought Levi Brown was a Penn State tackle that was drafted two years ago?
by Grockcubs on Oct 18, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was. But he’s also a pretty decent QB prospect from Troy who should be available on the second day. 24 Td 7 int 7 YPA 63% over his time starting this year and last. Level of competition is his big question, but he’s got prototypical size and really good accuracy. Doesn’t make many mistakes but may be too cautious.
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Oct 18, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also comes from a system offense and is has none of the tools
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 19, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t have faith in any of those guys you listed. I personally don’t think Lang will be an above average player in the NFL. Joyner had a great piece about him at ESPN, and even if he is a good NFL player, I agree that he isn’t the kind of pass rusher we desperately need. Also, I don’t think Hardy is a good fit for the 3-4. Lastly, Croyle is not an NFL starter.
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you going to get for Anderson now? a 7th round pick?
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 19, 2009 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hardy is a bad fit for a 3-4, and he would play the same position as Lang.
I sense a Troy homer.
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 19, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember that this was the same guy who though we should draft Glen Coffee at 36 this year.
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 19, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
a healthy Wimbley possibly turns this into a win. We just need a defensive playmaker/game changer. We’re missing that one impact linebacker or safety that can change the game with one play. Hopefully we can find him in the up coming draft.
by siejecy on Oct 18, 2009 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
alot of folks are looking at us to draft e berry from UT.
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Oct 18, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wimbley gets us a win if he is on the field? I don’t see that at all.
by Grockcubs on Oct 18, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not a win, but he would have helped. He’d had a sack in 3 straight games before today, and he has had a great year so far. He’s also one of our better defensive players.
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wimbley could have been a big difference. He has played really well this year and going to Trusnick is a giant drop off in talent.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. Wimbley is a defensive playmaker, especially on the blitz. With another dangerous pass rusher on the field, Roethlisberger would have had much more pressure on him.
by roar888 on Oct 18, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, we’re gonna play this game where we supposed that our players are all available but the Steelers have to do without whomever because it’s a given.
by elsandito on Oct 18, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, I don’t think its a big surprise that our depth isn’t as good as the Pittsburgh’s. Being without our two most talented LBs for most of the game was a huge deal.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hard for me to imagine that wimbley makes a 14 point difference all by himself.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question about Wildcat Offense
Why is Anderson on the field for the wildcat formation? Doesn’t that put you at a disadvantage, like playing 10 vs 11? The other team knows that Anderson won’t be involved in the play. If you put a real wide receiver out there instead then it gives Cribbs another option and makes it harder for the other team to guess where the play will go.
Can someone who knows about X’s and O’s explain?
The only thing I can think of is because Anderson has the microphone in his helmet, but does that matter when you’re just running one or two plays?
by JB-Cleve on Oct 18, 2009 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m guessing the idea is that if we’re still huddling, if Anderson isn’t in there, the defense knows it’s the Wildcat. Likewise, if Anderson runs off the field, it’s the Wildcat. When they break from the huddle, if Cribbs lines up under center, the defense has a little bit less time to adjust accordingly.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Oct 18, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that it makes a huge difference; just searching for a reason.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Oct 18, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well also, Derek Anderson is one of those guys who is a genetic freak and could play any position he wantd. he can get open for a pass and burn a CB, they could run a sweep and he could put a nasty juke move on a LB, or take lateral and drop a sick bomb on some fools for the TD. he’s really the all around perfect weapon in wildcat.
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Oct 18, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that, and it creates a potential to bait the defense into leaving the QB open assuming he isn’t an option on the play, and creating a wide open passing play. he’s never going to be the first option, but if the defense starts to cheat he’s available.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Oct 18, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Ravens scored like this on a pass to Flacco last year, didn’t they?
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought they had scored too, but not according to Flacco’s receiving stats:
2008: 16 games, 1 catch, 43 yards.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Oct 19, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought so too.
Wasn’t it Troy Smith to Joe Flacco?
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe so. Apparently it wasn’t a TD, though. I think Quinn could be dangerous as a WR (for a QB) but I don’t see DA being able to do that.
Maybe our offense will be so bad by the end of the year that we try to use both Quinn and Anderson at the same time, and we can find out.
by rufio on Oct 20, 2009 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would also leave open the possibility of Anderson coming in to motion and Cribbs handing the ball to Anderson for a pass play.
by JustBob on Oct 18, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right. Denver did that a lot last week, and it worked very well.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s about personnel groupings. Defensive coaches send in different defensive personnel groups to counter and match the play-specific offensive personnel grouping. When the quarterback stays out there, it forces the defense to stay in a base personnel grouping. The Browns didn’t’ want the Steelers to sub in an extra linebacker once they recognize wildcat.
by gahnki on Oct 18, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Horrible anderception was on the field for a diversion. It would be a factor if they would run something like a hitch to him and the recievers flood to his side for a pass play. Look for it in the future. But then again I wouldn’t expect to much from the OC. No creativity at all. This was by far his best play calling game yet.
by The naome40 on Oct 19, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, Eric Mangini addressed this question in his press conference today. (Is there a reporter lurking here?)
See the 7-9 items down in the interview:
http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2009/10/cleveland_browns_eric_mangini_11.html
by JB-Cleve on Oct 20, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quick observations:
The Good:
- MoMass and Robo. Robiskie looks like has the best hands on the team. Nice catch on the sidelines where he was just out of bounds, and a very good completion over the middle. MoMass was productive again as the #1, though he did have a drop or two.
- Wildcat. The running game was very successful out of the wildcat. both with Cribbs running and with him handing off to Harrison. I don’t really mind the INT, just not sure you should pass twice in a row from that set.
- Cribbs. He was due for a big game. And he stepped up huge. Kick return, running from the wildcat, and a big hit covering a punt.
- Run defense. Holding Steeler RBs to under 4 YPC (just as they did against the Bills). This is really impressive after getting torched earlier in the season.
The Bad:
- Hands. Lewis (at least twice), Harrison, Stuckey (at least 3 times) and MoMass all had drops. With DA’s lack of touch and inaccuracy, he is going to have more drops than most QBs, but still this is getting ridiculous.
- DA. We haven’t had a good game played by a Browns QB this year. DA has had his historically awful games this season, but he hasn’t had his really good games like in 2007. This is the DA that I expect most of the time. Even at his best, he is going to hold the ball too long sometimes and fail to make good decisions. Sure, his receivers dropped more than they should, but even if you say its 70-30 the receivers’ fault, that is one big fucking pie chart of crappiness to split.
- McDonald. I defended McDonald a lot last year and in the offseason. I still think he is above average in pass coverage. But he just can’t make tackles on NFL players. It seems like a combination of lack of size/strength, lack of effort and lack of technique. He can’t help his size, but there is no excuse for his effort being so poor. Hopefully Francies can start taking some time.
- Deep middle pass coverage. I actually don’t think this was Elam and Pool’s as much as some. The Browns seemed to be playing more zone and Tampa-2. I like that idea with the more mobile QB, but that puts a lot of pressure on the MLB that has to drop in a deep middle zone. Without DQ, that was the rookie Maiava, and he was often late getting back and out of position. Rothlisberger, Cheap Shot Ward, Heath Miller and Holmes just are too good for these mistakes, and they made the browns pay.
- The refs. I don’t think it was the camera angle. I don’t think it was the chain. That spot sucked on the Rothlisberger sneak- it shouldn’t have been close. Then, the ball was short of the marker. I’ve never seen such a blatant disregard of what is going on by officials. (well, maybe since yesterday’s florida game). And the worst part of all- why not frickin review that spot? What was the replay official thinking??
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Based off of the announcers it sounds like McDonald was a huge goat. He was being targeted and he could not make the tackles. That CB spot should be targeted for upgrade this offseason.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he was constantly going high, trying grab the jersey of RBs and WRs. Even Wallace ran right through him. Whats worse is that he gives up on the play and looks like he doesn’t care.
In fairness, he did have a play where he blitzed, Rothlisberger shook him off and he came back and got him for a sack.
Still, he should be benched because of effort and forced to watch tape of Antoine Winfield for 72 straight hours. Winfield has no problem making tackles in the league and is an inch shorter and 10 pounds lighter than McDonald.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Based off of the announcers it sounds like McDonald was a huge goat.
It seemed to me that the pass defense was the big hole in the Browns game plan. Other than that we’d have been right in the game. I totally agree that we need to address pass defense at linebacker and the secondary through the draft and free agency. Heck we got 2 days and some good trade material let’s get started now!
To DaytonDogg… nice summary.
About the good…
When you look at the game total stats you think “man, their defense sucked!”. But that is not the whole story. Most of the game the Steelers had no success running against the Browns. It was the Browns pass defense that seriously broke down. It is as if assignments are completely being missed and players are not at all where they are supposed to be. So with the good performance against the run and the pressure/sacks on Roflberger, the D-line gets another big thumbs up from me this week.
I’d add the offensive line to the good. They only started sacking us near the end of the game when desperation started setting in and we had to go deep. I really enjoyed the “student body left/right” plays around the ends with those big dogs leading the pack… awesome!
About the bad…
DA – I see week to week improvement in the passing and running game. I think the team is still coming together. I believe that as the season goes forward we’ll start seeing more consistency from DA and from the offense in general.
Pass Coverage – as above… we were just completely outclassed by their receivers.
All-in-all for me, it was an enjoyable game to watch… probably the most I’ve enjoyed watching a Steeler game in a long time. Several Roflberger sacks, some ints, fumbles, Cribbs run, the longest, most beautiful pass of the season to date to MoMass, Robos catch… just very poor pass defense or the Browns could have won this one.
Next time we have them at home… can the Browns bring home the win at home? I’m thinking…. maybe so!
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 18, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re- secondary:
I think Wright held his own, and even McDonald wasn’t terrible in coverage. The plays came mainly down the middle, and mainly in zone. Again, I think a lot of it was on Maiava (I hope I’m spelling that right). A couple plays he got matched up in man coverage on Ward. That’s a failure in the scheme and Maiava. When it was zone, Maiava just was a step behind where he should have been and the Steelers are too good and it was too easy for them to exploit these faults.
Re the O-line. I agree. They played well for the most part against probably the most difficult blitzes in the NFL. The right side had some problems and even Thomas had a hold, but overall they were a positive.
Re DA: Disagree. I don’t know what over the last few years makes you think we can expect any sort of “consistency from DA”. Improvement? Maybe on the offense overall, but I think the improvements are with the receivers learning, Harrison and Cribbs getting more touches and getting used to it and the playcalling getting a little (tiny bit) better.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McDonald’s tackling though despite his coverage makes him a huge liability.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. Like I said, i think he should be benched. Just that I don’t think he can be blamed too much for the Steelers passing success today.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McDonald should be benched for Francies, and we should seriously look into getting Mays or Berry in the draft. I was really frustrated watching McDonald’s lack of effort and technique with respect to tackling. How many times do we have to watch a RB literally carry him or stiff arm him multiple times in the same play? I agree with the earlier post that he tackles high and does not seem to play with energy when the play dictates that he make a tackle.
by chitown browns fan on Oct 19, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t disagree with you, but I don’t know what Mays or Berry has to do with McDonald.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 19, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, agree about the offense, not a lot to be encouraged about.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know… I don’t think you can say that when the offense is bad, it is DA and when it gets better it is everyone else. The expectation for consistency is just a reflection of what should happen if and when our offense ever stabilizes. I don’t expect a lot of consistency from a guy who has played under 4 coordinators and thrown to I don’t know how many different receivers. I see the possibility with DA from the 2007 season… Last year it was a team in turmoil with a coach that didn’t know how to address the issues. I expect more consistency out of DA as the season progresses with more experience with the system and players. If we don’t see consistent improvement then we’ll know something… I think DA and the receivers played better this week than last week.
I will say one thing though… I’m beginning to think that there is something about DA (as others have already pointed out) that makes it hard for receivers to catch his throws. I don’t think it is just speed. Probably placement + speed.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 18, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t expect a lot of consistency from a guy who has played under 4 coordinators and thrown to I don’t know how many different receivers.
Then why would you expect anything different from Quinn?
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 18, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait… was he? Or are you referring to his comments elsewhere?
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can’t point to the offensive coordinators and crappy WR’s as a reason to why DA sucks. Quinn is working with the same tools.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 18, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we weren’t talking about Quinn. We are evaluating DA as an NFL QB. The only thing to do at this point. DA vs. Quinn doesn’t mean a damn thing anymore. It doesn’t matter which you think is best.
The question is simply if either is viable. Two independent questions.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My fault.
Anyone who thinks that DA is anything other than what we have seen so far is kidding themselves.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is a fair question. To me the job was Quinns to win… he had to be demonstrably better than DA in a reasonable amount of time. I wish he had been but he wasn’t.
If Quinn didn’t win the job, then it was DAs. We can argue about what a reasonable amount of time is but that one won’t be solved… has Jamarcus Russell had enough time in Oakland? Has Sanchez had enough time as he just threw his 8th interception in the last 3 weeks? The only way to predict who is going to pan out is to look from the vantage point of the future. Might Ty Detmer have been a good QB if hadn’t thrown a bunch of ints his first game? Who knows?
I’ll tell you what though. If Anderson doesn’t improve week-to-week, I think we’ll see Quinn back in. I think it will be the Detroit game.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 18, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But even in 2007 DA wasn’t consistent.
I’m not saying that when the offense is bad it is all DA’s fault. Just that DA isn’t good enough to overcome a struggling line, or a below average running game, or bad weather, or inexperienced receivers, or any other adversity. If everything is going right, DA has a chance to be very good. but even then, he isn’t consistent.
On the difficulty on catching DA’s passes- you are right. He isn’t very accurate. Not only is there a general lack of touch, but many of the passes are not in the ideal catching areas. Sure, there were about a dozen passes in the last two weeks you would expect NFL players to catch, but they weren’t ideally placed.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree on DA’s challenges., too much speed and too many suboptimal placements. They’re not uncatchable balls, but they’re harder to gather in then they should be….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 18, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DA looks bad when receivers don’t make catches. That’s all. I refuse to give professional receivers the excuse that they don’t like the ball DA throws. Give me a break. Yes, DA doesn’t have the touch of some finesse passers, and once in a while a screen pass or short route is thrown harder than it should be, but please. Guys are dropping balls all over the field. Jamal dropped one screen pass and one 5-yard slant over the middle. Mass dropped a couple, at least. Stuckie was non-existent. We’ve had at least 14 dropped balls in the last 2 games. That affects the offense’s ability to convert on 3rd, to keep the defense honest and spread out, and to establish a legit run game. And then everyone’s all over DA’s stats after the game . . . dude must feel like he’s living in an alternate reality where guys drop well-thrown balls but the ball he’s throwing gets blamed. I’ve never hear this sort of reasoning before as a justification for poor catching.
Speaking of run game, Jamal Lewis should be benched. He is no longer effective because he does not burst through the hole. Every run that Harrison gets is more effective than each run Lewis gets. He should be coaching.
by chitown browns fan on Oct 19, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unofficial 2009 Cleveland Browns motto: There’s plenty of blame to spread around.
I think our receivers and DA both have issues. Better receivers make more of these catches, sure. A better QB delivers better balls and makes those catches easier to make. Improvement either way can make the difference.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 19, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure how you can give the D-line a “…big thumbs up…” when they gave up over 500 yards to the Steelers. You can’t take away the pass break downs. Perhaps they broke down because they were trying to stop the run (and they still gave up 140 yards rushing).
by Cols714 on Oct 18, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rushing 36 times for 140 yards is nothing to get excited about… They passed for 400 yards. The D-line had 3 sacks. Nothing was happening up the middle for the Steelers. And there were wide open guys when we were rushing 3… where were the linebackers and the secondary? I don’t think you can blame the D-line for the 400 yards passing.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 18, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They shut down Parker and Mendenhall. The reverse was the only big running play given up all day and that was on McDonald.
The D-Line did their job. And how. The Browns were down all game and the Steelers couldn’t seal the victory on the ground like they have in the past.
I don’t see how this is even debatable.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pittsburgh has become a pass-first team. Everyone else in the league has figured that out. Why haven’t the Browns?
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 19, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
still bitter about that 4th down call. but hey, at least they didn’t lose by 2 or something. now that would’ve been bad!
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still, it would have changed the game.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doubtful. We’d have been down 7 instead of 10 at the half. Don’t really see how that would have changed the game.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 18, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, his receivers dropped more than they should, but even if you say its 70-30 the receivers’ fault, that is one big fucking pie chart of crappiness to split.
Exactly.
by golanbatrac on Oct 18, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said as usual, DD. Again this week, I think the blame in the passing game can be spread around but DA does not get a free pass here.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 18, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed abou the refs. They were awful
How did they not see the hold on Cribbs touchdown? And not blowing the whistle when Mendenhall stopped and was laying on a guy was pathetic. That was high school. Blow the whistle when the play ends. They made a ton of mistakes. When they spotted the ball at the 20 after Clark’s pick I told the guy next to me “they have no idea what they are doing.” Sure enough, someone upstairs must have told them the rule and they spotted it at the one. The whole game was horrible officiating.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
by maryrose on Oct 18, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I watched closely for a hold on the Cribbs TD, still can’t find it.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It occurs on the 26-yard line
Keiwan Ratliff (#31) is clearly grabbed on the jersey on the left shoulder. Cribbs is behind Ratliff at the beginning of the grab. By the time the jersey is stretched to obvious view, Cribbs is now ahead of Ratliff. The announcer (Kevin Harlan) then backpeddles to say that Cribbs was ahead of Ratliff, but he was not at the beginning of the hold. The grab took place before the jersey stretch. We will never know if Cribbs would have scored anyway without the hold, maybe so, but it is a moot question. It was holding, it was a clear stretching of the jersey, and it should have been called. Watch it again. You’ll see,
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
by maryrose on Oct 19, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t believe you’re complaining about the officials. Steelers fan crack me up — they win by 13 points and that’s still not enough for them. They have to come to a Browns fan website and complain about the officials screwing them over. You guys are really something else.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not complaining at all about the officials
I merely agreed with the post and pointed out another bad call (no call). His initial point was complaining about the refs. All I did was agree and pointed out another call that spoke to his point about the officials being terrible. My goodness. Wow, you can’t even be agreed with!
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
by maryrose on Oct 19, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t act like you were thoroughly agreeing. You know there is a difference between what you did and agreeing that there were some (big) calls that should have gone the Browns’ way. Please.
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just want fair representation
Yes, the measurement thing was bizarre. The official still insisted that he looked at the correct angle and made the correct call, but it’s hard for me to believe they made the right call. I’d be pretty peeved if I were the Browns…
They also should have called holding on the Cribbs TD, since the hold began while Cribbs was still in front of Ratliff…
Once they made they technically made the correct ruling, but I have a problem with the ruling. Hines Ward caught a touchdown pass. Anyone who understand football knows it was a touchdown. Because they overly define the stupid thing, it was not a TD…
Mendenhall landed on top of a guy and stopped trying. Blow the stinking whistle instead of allowing that garbage…
They spot the ball on the 20 and give an explanation. Then they move it to the one and change the explanation? What’s up with that? Do it right the first time if you know the right thing to do…
If you’re going to call out the refs, and in this game you should, don’t just point to the blatant inujustice against the Browns…Tell the whole story, pro and con…
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
by maryrose on Oct 19, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on…this isn’t si.com, it’s a browns blog. we don’t care about bad calls that may have gone against the steelers.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously . . . I highly doubt anyone on a Steelers blogs is complaining about the bad calls that went against the Browns.
As woodsmeister said, Steelers fans have enjoyed the best luck of any group of fans in any sport. They’ve won two Super Bowls in the past 5 years. They shouldn’t have anything to complain about for the next decade. But that’s not good enough for them — they’re whining that they didn’t beat us by 30 points.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not "complaining"
But there is an entire post Mechem’s Review of the Refs that takes the browns side on the Ward TD and the Mendenhall fumble, with a good portion of the comments agreeing with the poster.
As far as complaining about refs, EVERY fan base does it, regardless if its a winning, losing, or middle of the pack team. It is just sports nature. No fan wants to realize that refs are unbias and get paid without regard to who wins.
On your drastic generalization of Steelers fans: so after we win a SB we are supposed to just stop caring? Not likely, we have the same passion as the year before, and we will argue and back our team no matter what.
Also, you do see the irony in complaining about someone else’s whining, right?
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 19, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I came to the Steelers board after a Browns win, and bitched about the Browns getting hosed on a call, ya’ll would boo me out the door.
We have enough issues to waste time on, without Steeler fans complaining about their WIN.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not complaining at all, sorry if I came off that way. I’m here for good debate, and I generally visit all of the AFC North blogs to keep an inside look on the division.
I just don’t like when people generalize an entire fan base.
Anyway, the door at BTSC is always open, for debate, friendly trash talk, or “disagreements” on calls.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 19, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am by no means implying you. There are a lot of intelligent fans out there. I was mostly talking about the trolling boobs.
Not you.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 20, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sorry that you don’t enjoy the rules of the NFL. But the calls on the Ward play, the Cribbs TD, the Mendenhall play, and the Steelers INT were all made straight by the book.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 19, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Hines Ward play was easy. Did you watch MNF the first week of the season? Incomplete. A player needs to kep possesion after he contacts the ground. Easy.
If Mendenhall “stopped trying” then that is a Mendenhall problem. He was laying on another player. He wasn’t down. Very simple. Keep up.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have to disagree with your second part. Its called forward progress. Once the play stops making an effort to move forward he should be called down. So is the rule.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 19, 2009 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The forward progress rule states that a ball carrier cannot proceed as a result of contact, simply quitting on a play does not consitute failure to advance as a result of contact.
by elsandito on Oct 19, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A player is ruled down if… The runner’s forward progress toward the opponents’ goal line is stopped by contact with an opponent, with little chance to be resumed
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 19, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
with little chance to be resumed
i think that kills your argument. there have been many a plays where a ballcarrier has rolled off a player on the ground and continued his progress. the “little chance to be resumed” phrase is meant for when a ballcarrier is standing upright and has a swarm of 5 defensive players pushing him backwards.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Oct 19, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mendenhall was wrapped up by a guy much bigger than him and not moving. I believe that is little chance of being resumed.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 20, 2009 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that the rule, the play ends when there is little chance of being resumed?
by Roger Dorn on Oct 20, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We were talking about the forward progress rule:
A player is ruled down if… The runner’s forward progress toward the opponents’ goal line is stopped by contact with an opponent, with little chance to be resumed
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 20, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve seen many, many examples of a player being wrapped up and fall on another player without touching the ground, then get up and run for more yards. The only reason you’re arguing this is because he fumbled. If he would have escaped the grasp and ran for a touchdown then I can guarentee you wouldn’t be here arguing that he should have been called down.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 20, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I have seen lots of examples where runners should have been ruled down and were stripped. Neither that, or you seeing the opposite has bearing on this argument.
The only reason you’re arguing this is because he fumbled. If he would have escaped the grasp and ran for a touchdown then I can guarentee you wouldn’t be here arguing that he should have been called down.
This statement really makes no sense. You’re right, why would I argue an issue that isn’t an issue? However, I would not have been mad had he been ruled down and then he escaped and ran for a TD after the whistle. And I would not be here arguing he shouldn’t have been ruled down.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 20, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with the rule is that it leaves it open to official interpretation, the meaning of “little chance of being resume” is a subjective device.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 20, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly think it’s an interesting point. If that were Harrison, I might be saying the same thing.
by joeee on Oct 20, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The majority of officiating is. Holding: Did he grab the guy enough to impede him from making a play? PI: Did he interfere with the guy enough to make a play on the ball?
I just thought his interpretation was wrong.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 20, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it made complete sense. As Roger said, the point where a runner’s forward progress is stopped is open to interpretation. So, as a fan, we see things in the way which benefits our team. He fumbled, so you thought he should have been ruled down. My point was that had he not been ruled down, and escaped to run for a touchdown, you would not be arguing against the TD. So it’s very subjective (like many rules in the NFL) and fans tend to see it in the way which helps their team.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 20, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Play through the whistle” goes for both offense and defense.
by rufio on Oct 20, 2009 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not disagreeing with that statement, but I am saying the whistle should have been blown before the strip.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 20, 2009 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn’t mean its not on Mendenhal to take care of the ball till the whistle. If he hangs on to the ball, there is no room for the officials to make an error; he still had control over the play.
by rufio on Oct 21, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Typical Steelers fans. Despite following the luckiest franchise in the NFL, they believe the world is still against them. They’re never going to change. You expect too much. It’s not a good game if the other team gets within 20 points and has several players go on the IR afterwards.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 19, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correction – It’s not a good game if the other team gets within 20 points and doesn’t have several players go on the IR afterwards.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 19, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody besides you and the CBS guy saw a hold on that TD. Even on the replay the CBS guys said it was a good no-call.
Mendenhall wasn’t down and he was still trying to fight for extra yards. Sorry if you don’t like the rule, but that is the rule.
They got the Clark play right in the end, so no gripe there.
Sorry, but Steelers fans don’t get to complain about officiating. Especially not today.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, but Steelers fans don’t get to complain about officiating
See Super Bowl XL. Steeler fans can NEVER bitch about officals. EVER.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 18, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree, that Super Bowl should of been played in Pittsburgh, they got every freaking whistle. Steeler fans should pipe it down when it comes to officiating.
by Grockcubs on Oct 19, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much can we attribute this one to poor QB play?
Anderson’s stats are pretty bad for this one, yes there were some drops again, but do we really think that if we take those drops away that the score is closer? I’m not so sure that Quinn can do better, but if we’re gonna be fair, Anderson has been just as ineffective as Quinn was, isn’t it time that we pull DA?
by Browns town on Oct 18, 2009 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good QB play makes this game closer. Great QB play could have won this game for the Browns. Unfortunately, we do not have a good or great QB on the team.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hopefully we will at the end of the 2010 draft. if we can solidify the o-line and if robiskie/momass develop, we have hope!
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...somewhat
I’m not trying to be a Quinn apologizer, but do we really think that he’s been given a fair shake? This was Anderson’s 30th start I believe, how is it possible that we’re still undecided on what DA can be, but after 5 starts, we have given completely up on Quinn?
by Browns town on Oct 18, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It might be time to bring in the Rat!
Ratliff ftw! :)
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 19, 2009 7:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good question. As someone I was watching the game with said, “If BQ was playing this way, he’d be on the bench by now.” Obviously someone still has high hopes for DA, thinks BQ is completely disastrous with no possible upside at this point, or is just afraid to switch back because it would make the team seem completely rudderless.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 18, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in spite of his numbers (not something i say very frequently), i still believe that anderson looks the FAR better qb over what we saw from quinn. the drive that began the second half was so superior to anything we got out of quinn as to be humorous.
but given the team’s results and anderson’s numbers, it is fair to wonder about giving quinn another chance. the fact that it hasn’t even entered the conversation suggests to me that the “team mutiny” theory may have some merit.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The team mutiny thing is what makes me think twice about putting Quinn back in there. I have pretty much given up on both, and am okay with whichever QB they want to throw to the wolves.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If there was a mutiny at hand, I’d guess that the primary instigator of said mutiny has been shipped to the Jets for players and picks.
I’d like to see Quinn one more time. If he looks as bad against Detroit, Jacksonville, KC, and Oakland as he did against Minnesota, Denver and Baltimore then we know he’s not an NFL quarterback and we can move on.
The only thing that I know for certain about the Browns quarterbacks is that DA is awful.
by golanbatrac on Oct 19, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would imagine there were some pretty loud defensive voices in the almost-mutiny discussion, too.
i’m with dorn. i don’t really care who plays qb the rest of the year. they both stink.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points (including that it probably doesn’t matter.) I didn’t include “Mangini would lose the team if BQ came back” in my list of options. Hard to imagine that Mangini would take well to extortion given the fate we’ve seen handed to most malcontents on this team.
What’s the most credible source we have on that so-called mutiny now, anyway? I’m skeptical of all of these ‘sources say’ stories, especially when I think the sports media loves to smell blood in the water, whether it’s actually there or not.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 19, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s loose at this stage…dan patrick mentioned it on his radio show as a “sources say” type of thing. i have no problem seeing it, though, so i guess i lend it a bit more cred.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patrick mentioned it as sources, but also said the whole NBC studio team (which is like 15 guys including Peter King) were discussing it.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Anderson does not get better I think we’ll see Quinn come in against Detroit. I’m for this and I think he should be left in until the end of the season.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 19, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds fair. If he’s going to see the field again in a non-emergency context, Detroit seems like as good a team to start him against as any.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 19, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm. Some sports commentator heard it somewhere and passed it around the newsroom, then? Not too far-fetched of an idea maybe, but pretty tenuous as far as sources go.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 19, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, considering he offered no source, it is entirely tenuous. as dorn mentioned, the whole nbc studio group was discussing it, though, and i don’t find it too hard to believe. either way, we ought not to get any confirmation.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Quinn has been given a fair shot.
I am not sure he is the answer, and at this point it isn’t looking good for him, but I’d love to at least be more sure one way or the other.
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks. This is what I have been saying all along. Just start him for 5 or 6 games, no BS, just let him play, if he stinks fine, move on. However at this point IMO, I don’t think we have a good gauge of what he can do.
And if the player want to mutiny screw em. Grow up.
by Grockcubs on Oct 19, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DA throws too hard on short and medium passes.
Proof:
Stuckey comes here and can no longer catch a pass.
Edwards leaves and can catch a pass.
by tribe71 on Oct 18, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not that he’s throwing hard, Payton throws hard. But, when a qb throws hard, the throw has to be in a catchable location. You can’t expect these guys to haul in a one handed fastball or reach back behind to get it or take it off their shoe tops. The ball has to be delivered in a reasonable location. DA does not have the accuracy, even on a 10 yd toss, to do this.
by elsandito on Oct 18, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at some of Manning’s passes in slow motion. They are not easy balls to catch. They are catchable, and he is accurate, but receivers also make plays to get to balls thrown to locations where only the receiver has the chance to make the catch. That location is not usually in the receiver’s bread basket, and the fact is that our receivers, top to bottom, have been dropping balls that are, too frequently, more, or at least as, catchable than a comparable pass thrown by another QB. This is the NFL. I can’t imagine people on Manning’s team saying, “I don’t like catching passes thrown by you because you throw the ball with velocity.” Fans would consider that foolish. We, as Browns fans, are used to making excuses for our team. Our receivers are running before they catch the ball and flat out missing catches. I’d say the blame is about 80% receivers, 20% DA.
by chitown browns fan on Oct 19, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I assess it as 50 – 50 myself, on average.
Better receivers make these catches. Better QBs don’t require the skills of better receivers in order to make most of their completions.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 19, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t try to blame DA’s bad performances purely on the receivers, or even 80% on them.
When DA throws the ball and drops it right on Royal with no one around, that’s on Royal. When he throws over the middle to Stuckey and it hits him in the hands but it is behind him, that’s on DA.
You know what I can’t imagine someone saying? “Look at the way Anderson consistently puts the ball where only his receiver can get it, hits him in stride, and leads him to the open area of the field.” Because if it happens, it doesn’t happen consistently.
As the WR, if I can get any part of my hands on the ball, I am thinking it is my responsibility to make the catch and if I don’t, that incomplete pass is on me. If it comes in harder than I thought, it doesn’t matter, I’ve just got to catch the damn ball. No one whose job it is to catch the ball should be satisfied with themselves right now.
As a fan, however, I can tell that there are a LOT of balls DA could put in better spots for our guys. There are also some balls that our receivers have no chance of getting. This shouldn’t be surprising; DA has always done it. In 07, he made up for it by completing some bombs down the field and zipping a few throws in to tight coverage on 3rd down.
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying DA doesn’t throw balls behind receivers at times or doesn’t throw the ball too hard at times. That’s a given and a fact, but let’s be fair here. For every ball that’s thrown behind a Stuckie or too hard for a screen, there’s at least an equal number that are – or seem to be from the television screen – catchable.
How many times do we have to watch a ball like Royal’s or like Lewis’s on Sunday or like the last one Braylon dropped when he was here fall to the ground for no good reason whatsoever? Sure, that sort of thing happens everywhere occasionally, but it seems to me at least half of our dropped passes are catchable. I can’t be the only one noticing this.
If there were a good way to define what a catchable ball is, I would guess that our Browns have a statistically significant number of dropped passes that having nothing to do with the QB or other variables (good defense, weather, etc.) relative to other teams in the NFL.
by chitown browns fan on Oct 19, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When DA throws the ball and drops it right on Royal with no one around, that’s on Royal.
Yes, I saw it. DA still isn’t doing his job.
Furthermore, even some of the “catchable” balls DA has thrown could be thrown better. Even some that have actually been caught.
One drop is too many, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that we need better QB play. We need better WR play too, but that doesn’t mean we don’t need better QB play.
by rufio on Oct 20, 2009 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is all true. Except that Royal is one of the guys who sucks at catching. But you should have known that from his history.
by Cols714 on Oct 20, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, perfect throws would make the WR’s jobs easier, but they are professional football players. i don’t care if its a tough catch, they get paid to catch it.
watch another team sometime, their QB’s aren’t making much better throws than DA, but their receivers can catch a ball thrown behind them.
by notthatnoise on Oct 20, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
watch another team sometime, their QB’s aren’t making much better throws than DA
this is totally false.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don’t care if its a tough catch, they get paid to catch it.
And the quarterback gets paid to throw it; what’s your point. It doesn’t matter how much they get paid, if the ball is at their feet or off the tips of their fingers then it’s hard to catch.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 20, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, perfect throws would make the WR’s jobs easier, but they are professional football players. i don’t care if its a tough catch, they get paid to catch it.
You’re missing a huge point. When is the last time that you have seen a Browns player have a great run after the catch?
Actually the Browns WR’s and TE’s have a COMBINED 174 Yards after the catch! That is insane. Just to show you how low that is Hines Ward, Andre Johnson, Miles Austin, Owen Daniels, Dallas Clark, Santonio Holmes, and Heath Miller all have more by themselves.
The good QB’s are able to get the ball to their talent on the outside. Great QB’s are able to get their talent the ball in a way that they are able to make plays after the catch. How many times do we see the Browns WR’s dropping to their knees to try and make a catch? Or have to reach behind them to try and bring in a pass? Watch Manning, Brady or Brees get the ball to their WR’s in a good position. Hell, even Orton does a good job of getting the ball in to good spots.
Every QB deals with drops. Reggie Wayne dropped a TD last week that had hit him in the hands. Limas Sweed drops 2 passes a week for BigBen. Do I need to even mention TO and Romo? They seem to overcome it. Why can’t DA?
DA is a crappy-to-decent QB. Watch Sunday and let me know when he hits a WR in stride. It very rarely happens.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 20, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, a WR cannot get yards after the catch unless we are running plays that allow them to do so and the QB hits them in position to run in stride. If they have to slow up or change direction, it is very unlikely that they will be able to get anything after the catch.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 20, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One can imagine how much fun it would be to watch Cribbs catching perfect passes in stride and moving the way he does. I wish we’d see it in real life.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 20, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is what Kurt Warner excels at. It’s a joy to watch him hit his receivers in stride so they can make something else happen after the catch.
by elsandito on Oct 20, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve said it before, but let me say it again. Imagine a pie chart of fault for the incompletions. One part of the chart is DA’s fault. The other part of the chart is the receivers’ fault.
Who cares where you draw the line between the two. It is a freaking huge pie.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 20, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kokinis cares. Mangini cares. You have to know what/who isn’t working so you can get it fixed.
by rufio on Oct 22, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is that neither is working. And its obvious.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 22, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The WRs get paid to catch the ball, the QB gets paid to throw it well. I don’t care if your WRs are dropping everything in sight; lead them awa from huge hits, make it a catchable ball, and give them no option but to catch it.
Just like the ball to Royal. But every time.
by rufio on Oct 21, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is correct. DA just doesn’t seem to put the ball where it can easily be caught. The alternative explanation is that the Browns keep acquiring receivers that can’t catch.
This being the Browns, I wouldn’t put that past them, but it seems absurd that every receiver they get can’t catch. I’d say most of this is on the QB.
by Cols714 on Oct 19, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, I hadn’t thought to apply Occam’s razor here, but it’s a good point. It’s probably a simpler solution to assume that DA is the common factor here, rather than assuming that every receiver contracted Terminal Dropitis from Braylon before he left the building. I’d still split the blame 50 – 50 though.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 19, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, Stuckey did not have drop problems with the Jets. It’s not like you can’t catch when you switch teams, it has to be partially the QBs fault if not even more.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and while i’ve defended anderson in the face of drops, stuckey’s inability to catch the ball speaks to placement as much as anything, given that he caught favre last year. no one throws a faster fastball than #4.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still, if you watch receivers on other teams you see some amazing catches with two defenders all over them and the ball thrown way over their heads. I think I’m of the opinion that it is more 50/50 here as someone said earlier. Which is worse as there is no single point fix… we need a lot of help OR the current crop just needs to get better. There may be some signs of that over what was a very poor showing in Buffalo but it remains to be seen if they can get better as the season progresses.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 19, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s just it; there is one single point fix. A more accurate QB would throw the ball more accurately and give all of the receivers better odds at making the catch.
Massaquoi and Robiskie will get better with time. Stuckey has a good chance of looking more sure-handed in the short term as well.
We could use a weapon or two, and the WRs do need to play better ball. Still, there is a lot of room for improvement at QB.
by rufio on Oct 20, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet the new situation, potentially new playbook, terminology, minor coaching points, etc. leads to more “thinking” while he is on the field and less “just playing”. That would probably hamper his ability to catch the ball, especially in traffic.
by rufio on Oct 20, 2009 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
favre is an anamoly in that case
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Oct 18, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the last 2 years “they” have been working on DA and his touch passing….who have been the QB coaches the last couple years, do we have one?
And Favre has a touch pass, he usually ads a little hop to it.
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 19, 2009 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didnt see the whole game and couldnt hear anything at the bar, but werent there something like 8 drops? Give DA 5 of those 8 and his stats don’t look quite so damning.
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Oct 18, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, he played a bad game. No two was about that.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give him five of the eight and take away the fumbles and that ridiculous interception where he threw into coverage rather than tuck and run for the first, and he still stunk.
DA is just an awful, AWFUL quarterback. They should trade him for a box of Junior Mints.
by golanbatrac on Oct 18, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“They should trade him for a box of Junior Mints.”
lol.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Junior Mints can be quite refreshing.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 18, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if we get the JM for DA we would still need to send tootsie roll industries cash….
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 19, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think from what i've seen both suck
I also think the only reason DA is in the game and Quinn was sat so quickly is because of the 2007 season and the belief that the threat of DA throwing deep or performing at his 2007 level is worth more than his interceptions lack of a short game and whatever other shortcomings he has.
Before I get flamed about how stupid something is. I’m not saying this is my opinion i’m just saying this is the only explanation i can see that makes sense.
My opinion is that I don’t think either one should be our starter next year and because of this we might as well throw Quinn back out there.
A problem i see with this, is that if the players truly were ready to mutiny (?) if Quinn was kept as the starter what happens to the lockerroom if DA is benched for Quinn. As weird as it seems and as crazy as it sounds, no matter how bad DA performs the players always seem to be behind him more than they ever are Quinn. Of course this is only based off watching mannerisms on tv and little tidbits that come out as rumor (no i don’t believe everything i hear, but sometimes where there’s smoke there’s fire). I wonder if maybe some of the players have a problem with the “seemingly unearned” love that Quinn has gotten from many fans and if maybe there is a bit of jealousy working there. If so I could definetly see Mangini being a guy who would work a negative in an attempt to get the result that he wants. (Something I am completely against).
Again I don’t know. I just don’t think Quinn is sitting and DA is playing purely based on their play. I’m quite certain Mangini has some plan and probably has had one that he thinks is going to work for him. I can’t say that I know what it is or that I would agree with it if I did, but he seems like the kind of guy that every action no matter how small or seemingly inconsequential has a purpose and things said and things left unsaid have meaning.
Or maybe I watch too much X-files. That is also quite possible. But just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean that they’re not after you.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
by Villeslgr on Oct 18, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that it was politically expedient for Mangini to start Quinn this season even if he thought DA was better because there are fans and media who were/are rabidly behind BQ, the unknown commodity, and not as many behind DA after last season’s disappointment. I’m sure that Mangini (and all our fans) would have loved if BQ could have lit up the field, but he didn’t, and I believe that that fact made it relatively easy for him to pull BQ after 10 quarters; he can always say that he gave BQ a shot. I think Mangini was just as curious as the rest of us to see what BQ did in several real games minus injury. And now we know.
Regardless of all of that, BQ doesn’t get through all the reads, doesn’t recognize when his first or second receiver is starting to pull away from a DB, and checks down to his outlet receiver more often than what is justifiable given the defense. I’m not sure if he’ll develop or not, but I felt and still feel as though DA gives us the best chance to win. And I’m not sure that developing BQ this season is a better use of time than say, developing DA in the same manner.
One of our QBs has to go in order for the other to have a real shot at being the general of this team. For example, if DA had been traded after losing the supposed QB competition at the beginning of the season, BQ would still be playing right now and developing his game. (Whether the BQ experiment would or would not have been successful is not the point.) The fact that there IS an option at the position is the problem, so Mangini should really cut his losses, give one of these guys the reins, and play, no matter what the heck happens. This isn’t the 49ers with Young in the wings waiting for his shot. These are, as far as any empirical evidence has thus far shown, 2 mediocre QBs. Find a team who needs one, get a pick or two, and move on.
by chitown browns fan on Oct 19, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Anderson has been just as ineffective as Quinn”
false. How many TD’s did they score with Quinn? How many have they scored with Anderson?
by notthatnoise on Oct 19, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many INTs and fumbles has DA lost?
I think neither has shown that they’re worth keeping next year, but let us be fair.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 19, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Quinn led us to one.
DA has led us to three.
DA has commited 7 turnovers by my count.
Quinn has 3 again by my count.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whats the point of offense? to score touchdowns, end of story.
by notthatnoise on Oct 20, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. Please tell me you are trying to be funny.
No one can be this mis-informed.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 20, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know it wouldn’t have made a huge difference, but i wish that james davis was out there on the field, too…
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was very excited to see Davis play this year.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
by Villeslgr on Oct 18, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats is what frustrates me.
Andersons line this year : 48 of 108, 2 TD , 6 INT’s and 2 fumbles lost. And Quinn gets two full games against teams that are 11-0 and a half against the Ravens. So Quinn in that time sucks and can’t play. All I say is give him 4 or 5 starts see what happens, if he blows, fine, sit him, trade him whatever, just don’t base his career on 10 quarters of football.
And what is up with giving up 417 in the air? Goodness.
Cribbs needs a new contract, get it done Browns.
I like Mass and Robiskie.
by Grockcubs on Oct 18, 2009 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Grockcubs for GM!
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Oct 18, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is what this team has become. 10 quarters of football and Quinn blows, because the players, everyone on this site, wild dogs, and every resident in Cleveland wants Quinn out of town. Anderson who is just horrible stays on the field after two of worst games you will see, and he just keeps running out there because our wonderful coach says " he executes on 3rd down" oh really Eric.
Great, 5 decades of rooting for this, thanks. Geez I thought Todd Philcox and Spergon Wynn left town.
by Grockcubs on Oct 18, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone on this site wants Quinn out of town?? What the heck are you talking about? Most of the people here were behind Quinn coming in to the season, then he plays like crap the first three games and got benched. Anderson hasn’t been great but he’s certainly looked better than Quinn did when he was in there. Of course, that was only 2.5 games and maybe we’ll get a chance to look at him again this year. But why are you saying that people want to run him out of town? Nobody has said that. Let’s stop the hyperbole.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 18, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man I’m so tired of talking about Quinn vs Anderson… get one of them on a train already…
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 18, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or both. I do think it’d be easier to get rid of BQ if we were more certain he’s hopeless.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 18, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or both.
yes. i like quinn. i think he’s a good guy and could get a starting job somewhere and be good (not great). but he’s hopeless in cleveland.
and DA, i’m just sick of him.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sad fall from the beginning of the season, isn’t it? I kind of hope BQ gets his second chance this year, but someone needs to leave and we need to get working on who’s next.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 18, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I know Quinn has gotten a real fair shake in Cleveland. And Anderson has been better, what and the hell am I thinking, I just don’t understand this game.
by Grockcubs on Oct 19, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said — or implied — that you don’t understand the game. My only point was that nobody is trying to run Quinn out of town. Obviously you don’t have a response for me so you had to start making things up.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brandon McDonald should be benched. Not for a series, but inactive for a game.
I have never seen a DB that scared of contact. And this isn’t a new thing for him.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 18, 2009 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He must have forgotten that the first key to being a DEFENSIVE player is tackling…
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Oct 18, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This NE-Tenn game is absurd. NE is toying with them. I think Brady could throw a TD on any play he wants too.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
31-0. 6:20 left in 2nd quarter. Wow.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Imagine being a Titans fan right now. Wow. At least we knew we were going to be bad this year. What the heck happened to that defense?
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 18, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was on the steelers group on fb, which i sometimes go on to see what they say about the browns, and a lot of people were like “TN sucks ever since they mocked the towel!” so there’s your explanation.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Typical Steelers fans. The world revolves around them. They have no idea what a bitch karma is, but someday they will and I will savor the schadenfreude.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 19, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. It’s only a matter of time when we’re the studs and they’re complete crap again.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 19, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lot of injuries and lost the best defensive player in football. Also, Kerry Collins is who I thought he was.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kerry Collins is garbage. He game managed his way to a decent season last year, but at this point in his career, he is Browns QB-esque.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously? He is perfectly average. Can’t say that about a Browns AB.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is going to get benched for Vince Young any game now, you can’t tell me he is average.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, don’t get me wrong, he hasn’t played good. But, they are going to be 0-6. Young would get the start as soon as they were out of the playoff race anyway, regardless how Collins plays.
He’s played ok on a team with no WR threat.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, I would call his performance last year okay. He has been putrid this year.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think he has been really much different this year?
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you can’t really blame him for being worse given what is going on with the rest of the team, but I think it’s pretty obvious that he is suffering as a result.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he already has more INTs this year than he did all of last year…and he threw for -7 yards yesterday…
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even so, I’d trade DA for Collins straight up.
by golanbatrac on Oct 19, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hyperbole alert
If 2-12 for -7 yards an interception, a lost fumble, and 3 rushes for -1 yard is average. We might get both DA and Quinn in the Pro Bowl as starters this year.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
by Villeslgr on Oct 18, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice.
In other horrible QB news how bout this:
- Sanchez- 10/29 119 YDS, 5 INT
- Hasselbeck- 10/29 112 YDS 1 INT
- LIONS QBs- 11/25 115 YDS 3 INT
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All those horrible performances really messed up my fantasy day.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
by Villeslgr on Oct 18, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WE SHOULD HAVE DRAFTED SANCHEZ! MANGINIA IS AN IDIOT!!!1
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 18, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Congrats on that 51 point performance by Tom Brady, btw.
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
About time he has looked like Brady.
Think about all the crazy QB play yesterday: Guys were either awesome or crap. Brees, Brady, Ben, Schaub it seemed endless.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have a team that owns Schaub, Ben, and Favre, and left Schaub on the bench. nobody on the rest of my team, other than the Bills defense, scored more than 7.
puke.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Oct 19, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They lost their defensive coordinator; he was one of the best in the league.
by gahnki on Oct 18, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Haynesworth. Also one of the best in the league.
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Titans have forgotten who they are. They are a run team that should pound the ball as many times as Georgia Tech.
But they throw the ball all over the yard with Collins and wonder why they are down 28 at half.
I like Jeff Fisher but they seem to forget that they are a running team.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 18, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Fisher is my football idol, hopefully it wasn’t all a mirage, that Schwartz was the real brains.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their defense can’t stop anyone, hence they have to throw the ball, hence the offense can’t do what it does best and the offense can’t stay on the field, thus bringing out the defense, which can’t stop anyone.
Vicious cycle.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 19, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
injuries in the secondary, too
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brady is 14/15 right now for 3 TD’s — in a snowstorm!
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 18, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
send in bryan hoyer, or whoever brady’s backup is.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lucky for whoever has him in fantasy.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many consecutive losses in a row is it to PIT now? Ugh, on second thought…spare the pain and don’t tell me.
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Oct 18, 2009 5:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
we played close enough and we seem to be progressing that i think we have a chance vs Pitt at home.
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Oct 18, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is not a Stiller team that will compete for the Super Bowl let alone the division title…why were we able to hang around? And where was the run game? How deep are their WR’s? Even Ditka said their inability to put teams away late is going to be a problem (and yes I know we were put away late.)
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 19, 2009 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Pittsburgh will be in competition for the division title and they have a very good chance of winning it. Who do you like better — Baltimore? Cincy? Both of those teams have just as many problems as the Steelers.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly. a bit of a down year for the afc north
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Oct 19, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh? They have the 4-2 Bengals and Steelers and the 3-3 Ravens were a couple of weeks ago considered one of the top teams in the NFL. I think it’s a pretty good year for the AFC North.
by Cols714 on Oct 19, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d say it’s one of the top divisions in the league still, with the Browns being the only weak team.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could have used Monday night’s Braylon Edwards in this game.
by palcal on Oct 18, 2009 5:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We could have used Braylon’s best effort once this season.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braylon 3 catches for 40 yards Sun vs Bills…..he hasnt won a game yet…. :)
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 19, 2009 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davis and Crennel had 4 years; doesn’t Mangini get 4 years?
by palcal on Oct 18, 2009 5:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Davis and Crennel had 4 years...
Isn’t Mangini’s contract for 4 years???
by jharbdo on Oct 18, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you trying to convince yourself?
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
four years was too much for them and it will be too much for mangini.
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Oct 18, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good game guys
It was much more competitive than I thought it would be, which I love to see.
Joshua Cribbs is a stud. If Mangini is really shopping him, he is a fool.
See you all in Cleveland.
" I’m glad we play Pitt twice, and not Tenn this year." - Salty Browns Fan.
by Johnny_S on Oct 18, 2009 6:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
On a side note, Braylon Edwards is catchless with 8 minutes left in the 3rd quarter. The 50 catch mark may be harder to reach than previously thought.
by Simmsinns on Oct 18, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yea, Sanchize can’t hit the broad side of a barn in this weather.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at the stats in that game make Anderson’s from last week look normal.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braylon just caught one and then dropped his mouth piece on the way back to the huddle.
by golanbatrac on Oct 18, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow 5 interceptions
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
by Villeslgr on Oct 18, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he threw for -7 yards. i don’t even think DA could manage to pull off that level of suckiness.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brian Hoyer, St. Ignatius grad, with first NFL TD on a sneak attempt.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 6:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Any chance you saw the 2008 state championship game last yeat?
by Simmsinns on Oct 18, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I am a few years removed from high school, and haven’t really been back to Cleveland in awhile. I was a senior in 02 though, when they won their previous state title.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see. I’m a huge follower of high school football. Been a huge Iggy fan since grade school, but never actually attended. (I live in north west Ohio.) Drove to Canton with my dad and cousin last year to watch the most of the championship games, and had a local school (Hopewell-Loudon make it [D6]). It was a great game and incredible experience. Hopewell lost to Delphos St. Johns though, in a close game.
by Simmsinns on Oct 18, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely. I can’t wait to see him in Scarlet and Grey.
by Simmsinns on Oct 18, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, are the raiders really gonna beat the eagles?
so glad i decided to start celek AND mccoy from that offense. sigh. should’ve started owen daniels. i’m up by 23 with roddy white to play. the guy i’m against has vincent jackson left.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 6:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah if roddy white gets a few points i can safely say this guy won’t come back. i’ve lost 2 in a row so i need this win.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, good. i’m up by 19 now. i’m glad this guy had to use matt hasselbeck who has 0 points haha.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
espn predicts white to only have 5 points and 56 yards. i don’t buy it.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i stopped listening to them when they said DA and jerome harrison would be good bye week fillers last week lol
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He ended up with EXACTLY 56 yards. A TD, though.
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 3:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, that’s crazy haha. they didn’t predict the TD, though.
by emily522 on Oct 19, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you got it.
I started MJD, Chris Johnson, and Ray Rice! Oh and Green Bay’s defense. I’ve got 162 points with CJ still playing… (8 person league, $60)
by Simmsinns on Oct 18, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sanchez: 6 of 21 for 74 yds, 4 INTs.
Imagine what he would do with the BRowns offense.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 7:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ha, nice. Edwards with a drop on that last play.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want a Buffalo win so that the Browns will still have more wins than Braylon.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe buffalo’s just cursing all of the opposing QBs haha. or sanchez and DA just aren’t that good.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I think it’s just that tenacious Buffalo defense!!!
Ha.
I could hardly type that with a strait face.
by Simmsinns on Oct 18, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mckelvin is good but he’s hurt
he was injured. injured bad.
by troy145 on Oct 18, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
does this game prove that Wilmbley is vital to our defense? (i’m not saying he is objectively good, i’m just saying that he is important to our (relatively terrible) team)
by DrewskiC on Oct 18, 2009 7:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, Wimbley AND DQ is a tough combo to go without- especially for a team with a lot of blah at LB otherwise.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, 2 of our 3 best defensive players out. Wimbley and DQ have been really good this year.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edwards has 2 catches now, so we might still see the 4 average to hit 50.
by Simmsinns on Oct 18, 2009 7:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good news for next week: Chad Clifton injured again.
by golanbatrac on Oct 18, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Definitely need Wimbley healthy again. In either case, I don’t think there is any way our offense can keep up with Green Bay,
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we get lucky this week and DA and Quinn both fall in the shower. Injuries are our only hope.
by golanbatrac on Oct 18, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is that going to help? Do you really think Brett Ratliff is the answer?
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 18, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s worth a look. We’re going nowhere with DA.
by golanbatrac on Oct 18, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really doubt Ratliff is any better than DA.
by Simmsinns on Oct 18, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would much rather see Quinn again than Ratliff. I’m certain that Ratliff is not the answer.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 18, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
grossi maintains that ratliff will start at some point this season…based on “sources”, not just a hunch (according to grossi)
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually would not mind seeing Ratliff the last few games of the season.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i’m not necessarily anti-ratliff at this stage.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a hunch. With Grossi, it’s always a hunch. And 9 times out of ten, it’s the wrong hunch.
by golanbatrac on Oct 19, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh. That’s not going to be pretty. Well, maybe DA will have one of his all-too-rare ‘Monday night against the Giants’ games.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 18, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braylon Edward’s bringing offensive ineptitude to whatever team he plays for his vastly entertaining.
by gahnki on Oct 18, 2009 7:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL… I like this comment. I’ve been telling folks that the Jets are a paper tiger. Look at their schedule! They play every bad team in the league except a couple. They will win some more games but if they keep losing to the likes of Buffalo then they may be wanting coach Mangini back at the end of the season.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 18, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oakland now has more wins than the Browns. I’m going to puke.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 18, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they have the same amount of wins.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough, the standings I saw weren’t updated.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Destroying suicide leagues everywhere.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 18, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am still alive, that Philly loss was huge for my chances.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, they knocked my ass right out of there today.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 18, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My wife was knocked out with the Jets loss today, and she blames me (of course) for telling her to pick them. The Bills looked awful last week so I thought it was a good bet. Although I was knocked out in the second week (Green Bay against the Bungles) so what do I know.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 18, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had GB, but was tempted to take Jax as well. For my health’s sake, glad I didn’t even though it worked out.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Oct 19, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that, along with the Bills win, knocked my pool down from 17 to 10. no choice but to take a road team next week with a rested Colts team heading to STL.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Oct 19, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am leaning Colts as well especially since their 3 games after that aren’t gimmies.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they’re -13.
anytime you’re a double-digit road fave, a difference of 4 points seems like nothing though.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Oct 19, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would lay that easy. I think they win be 21+
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They’ll sneak up on somebody.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 19, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just wondering...
…if any of you Cleveland fans are willing to admit that Big Ben is an elite quarterback yet.
by Weirtonite on Oct 18, 2009 7:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He’s not Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Drew Brees. They put up great numbers against great teams.
by golanbatrac on Oct 18, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t really want to re-hash this, but I would put him in the 5-7 range, as I would have when this debate first happened. Others obviously disagree.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. And an additional comment, just because he beats us doesn’t mean it will change our opinions of his passing ability. And the truth is, he isn’t even close to the top 3. Payton Manning speaks for himself, Drew Brees just dropped bombs on the Giants elite defense, and Tom Brady just had 6 TDs and 5 of them were in the same quarter.
Ben is not even close to them.
by Simmsinns on Oct 18, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is throwing for 400 yards against our crappy defense without two of our best players supposed to prove that he’s an elite quarterback?
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 18, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was thinking the same thing.
can you all imagine what drew brees would do to them?
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brees would have been on the sideline in the third quarter. Elite quarterbacks don’t let teams that are as bad as Cleveland stick around as long as BR does.
by golanbatrac on Oct 18, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After watching legit elite quarterbacks today
I have to give this a huge FAIL. Big Ben is a good quarterback who wins games. I would love to win games, but I’m not calling him elite because he had a good game at home against our defense. Tom Brady and Drew Brees showed you elite today and pretty much every Sunday they play. 417 while gaudy doesn’t show me much when you only have 2 tds and an interception to go with it and your team only scores 27 points. What was Big Ben doing with all those yards?
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
by Villeslgr on Oct 18, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree. Brees torched the Giants. Ben torched the Browns.
It’s like calling someone tough after the beat a woman.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 18, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Top 5-7, not top 3. I don’t think you can say he’s on the level of a Brady, Manning, or Brees but he’s definitely a great player.
by gentryholdem on Oct 18, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
here’s an idea:
let’s wait to draft nick montana out of washington in 4 years. like father, like son ;)
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 7:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it’s time to get rid of Pryor. They will end up wasting another 2 years on him and get no where.
by tmptplayer on Oct 18, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily true. Troy Smith looked bad as a freshman and sophomore, too. I know he didn’t play QB much in games but I saw him in the Spring Game and he looked bad there his first two years. He got much better with coaching and experience, and the same thing could happen with Pryor. Not saying it will happen, but it’s way too early to write him off.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 18, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
people who are calling for bauserman are too impatient.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
I figured our national championship aspirations for this year went down the tubes with the USC loss, because no one wants to see a 1 loss big 10 team in the title game. Another loss is embarrassing, and disappointing, but not time to start calling for heads.
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 3:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. If we’re going to win a national championship the next two seasons then we need Pryor to lead us there, and the only way he’s going to get better is by playing in games and hopefully getting more comfortable. Bauserman is not the future so there is no reason to start him now.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pryor needs to be benched to clear his head.
The kid has an attitude. He smacked Tressel’s hand away when he was talking to him. He screams at WR when he throws up prayers that get picked.
Someone needs to sit him down and let him know that 4 TO’s in a game is not allowed.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know — Tressel knows much more about his attitude that I do. I try not to judge a player’s attitude from what I see on TV. Maybe he does have an attitude problem, but if so I’d think a 4 TO game would get his attention just as much as benching him would.
I don’t really see what benching him would do other than send him a message; he’s only going to get better with playing time. People need to remember that he’s only a sophomore. He still gives us our best chance to win on Saturdays. I think they need to reevaluate the game plan for him.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would agree on the PT issue, but it seems that he is getting worse every week.
The only time he looked good was against Toledo.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The kid has an attitude. He smacked Tressel’s hand away when he was talking to him. He screams at WR when he throws up prayers that get picked.
a lot of that was probably out of frustration, but if that’s what it was then he needs to learn how to handle himself better and be more mature. i highly doubt that tressel will let that type of behavior fly each week.
by emily522 on Oct 19, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never should a player be allowed to slap a coaches hand away.
That is respect.
Pryor has acted like a brat lately. He needs to learn that this is a team game, not just him.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, yeah i know that. i’m not excusing his behavior at all. what i’m saying is that it’s probably just a heat of the moment thing, that he probably is not normally that disrespectful. but obviously i don’t know him personally, so i can’t say for sure.
and yeah, he needs to get over himself unless he wants to be criticized even more.
by emily522 on Oct 19, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not all of OSU’s problems are pryor’s fault. wells, hartline, and robiskie are all gone. the offensive line is god-awful. the WRs they have now are all starting for the first time this year (…i think). while you can blame some of it on pryor, it’s not all of his fault.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the O-line gave him no time on Saturday.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 18, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but Pryor needs to make quick decisions when he is blitzed. Purdue blitzed all day long because Pryor wouldn’t get rid of the ball. There was no reason not to bring the house.
He continues to look like he has never seen a blitz week in and week out.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 18, 2009 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we remake our jerseys with fly paper, that way they don’t even need to use their hands, the ball will just stick to them? I bet then we could get some offensive yardage.
by tmptplayer on Oct 18, 2009 7:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The holder messed it up and had to try to throw on what would have been a 50 yard FG attempt to win, and threw an INT.
by Simmsinns on Oct 18, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, he prolly wasn’t going to make that anyways. It’s real windy there and the Bills kicker missed a 30-some yarder at the end of regulation.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 18, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point, but it was still amusing to watch.
by Simmsinns on Oct 18, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m excited to watch the atlanta vs. denver game. should be a good one.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 7:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Haha, with our supporting cast, Mangini would be laughed out of the league for drafting him.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was thinking the same thing… Mack + MM + Elam = 100% improvement over Sanchez
by Guage80 on Oct 18, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ 40 million in savings to address other parts of the team in the future.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ avoiding years of Brown jersey Sanchez jokes from Steeler/Raven fans.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 18, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man has this thread ever changed from what it would have been a couple of weeks ago… I love it!
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 18, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was saying how they should have the first few games of the season, but that was just me jumping the gun. i’m glad they didn’t, considering the fact that we could find out next QB in the 3rd or 4th round next year.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s funny how the talking heads were ready to annoint Sanchez and take their shots at the Browns for passing him up and for trading Edwards. I’m excited to see what we the players we picked up can do and am fairly certain Mack is going to be a great player. So far from the Jets we have gotten 3 (? trusnik, elam, coleman) players who have contributed look as if they might stay with the team and a starting center for not drafting and dropping huge money on Sanchez and giving them Edwards.
And of course we all know Ratliff is either Mangini’s secret weapon or he has some interesting pictures.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
by Villeslgr on Oct 18, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard some analysis the other day that the Center position is the new Left Tackle in terms of importance for a team. This due to some of the more creative stuff happening on offense. Interesting… glad we have Mack!
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 18, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, it was an ESPN article about how important the center is as teams move to the 3-4 and get beast nose tackles.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And seeing as how 2/3 teams in the division use a 3-4, as do 4/6 of last year’s AFC playoff teams…
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the draft thread on here is going to be awesome this year with all the picks they have.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 8:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it’s all weird this year with the times though.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha Ha.
The Buffalo Bills have more wins than Braylon Edwards.
by golanbatrac on Oct 18, 2009 8:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Bills have more wins than Edwards and Winslow combined.
by golanbatrac on Oct 18, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winslow still looks like a stud. He’s the best player TB has.
by gentryholdem on Oct 18, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s something to hang your hat on.
by golanbatrac on Oct 18, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tight Ends are franchise players to build your team on!
Ha!
by Simmsinns on Oct 18, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha, the “cry whine and moan” section on yahoo is funny this week:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Cry-Whine-and-Moan-It-s-a-long-and-sad-list-th;_ylt=AvevFBj9vnZQTxG7aLPzioU5nYcB?urn=nfl,196632
this is my favorite:
Tennessee Titans. 59-0. That was real. That happened. I’m sorry.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 8:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i was just looking around the home page of the blog and saw that they’ve reached an agreement with bernie kosar and he is a consultant for the browns now. what does that mean?
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 8:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That means Bernie lost his shirt and Lerner threw him a bone.
by golanbatrac on Oct 18, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha, but seriously… what does a consultant do?
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Consult.
I imagine he’ll be doing the same thing Jim Brown does — give bad advice to college players.
by golanbatrac on Oct 18, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read Terry Pluto’s column on cleveland.com from this morning. He goes into detail about Kosar’s role.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drink and crap on all QB play.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 18, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m a little concerned about this… is it a vote of “no confidence” on coach Mangini from Lerner?
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 18, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would lean more towards Bernie is going through a rough stretch and could use some help.
He can crack open a few Mickey’s and tell Lerner that his offense sucks. Proabably good for a few yucks.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 18, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he should tell the browns which QB to take next year.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he could step in and be the O coordinator right now… :)
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 19, 2009 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
by Villeslgr on Oct 18, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s probably gunna teach these young boys how to drink.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 18, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he a drunk, or is he punch drunk? I can never tell.
by golanbatrac on Oct 18, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Closer to he number 1pick
I was not upset today because the Browns lost. I expected them to lose and was not proven wrong. Having seen so much bad football by the Browns over the past ten years, I don’t get disappointed by this team anymore. That’s pahetic!!! Ishould be up in arms after another poor performance, but the fact of the matter is the Browns are very devoid of talent. Imean our brightest moments are when Cribb’s touches the ball. Don’t get me wrong, Josh is a very talented player, but thats not going to get you many wins. If the Browns win two more games this year I’ll be surprised.
by RiverDoc56 on Oct 18, 2009 8:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope we don’t get the number one pick. We can get a similar value player for A LOT cheaper 3 or 4 picks later.
by Simmsinns on Oct 18, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knowing Mangini, he will trade out of a top 5 pick, it’s not worth the money and he wants bodies. Wouldn’t be surprised if we have 15 picks in next years draft.
by gentryholdem on Oct 18, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure having 15 draft picks in one year is a good thing. That would mean over 1/4 of the roster would be rookies – many of those from the later rounds.
by bbstirrd on Oct 18, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could be good thing if the rookies are used to provide depth for the season and playing time in the future. If we can keep players who are productive this year or atleast serviceable and draft some players who fit with our plans i think that would be better than hoping to spend money on older free agents to solve our problems. I’m not certain we are in a situation where a few key pieces will turn things around. Certainly they would help because we appear to be pretty bad but I’m inclined to think that given the chance we can make some good picks, or atleast picks that will fit with our goals and not just random darts thrown at a board.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
by Villeslgr on Oct 18, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My instinct says we would group some of those lower round picks to move up and get a player we want in rounds 2-3. Even the Browns don’t have the roster space for that many draft picks.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s what I hope we do. I just hope by the time the draft rolls around our needs are less or atleast a little more defined.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
by Villeslgr on Oct 18, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, look at the combined record of teams we’ve lost against. It is phenomenal. We have lost against elite teams. Note who we still have to play… Detroit, KC, Raiders, Jacksonville… we’ll probably have an unexpected win or two (GB? Ravens? Please, please make it the Steelers at home…)
I’m still sticking with my prediction of 7 but even if it ends up 5 we’ll be down in the 10’s unless we package and trade up.
Question for you all… Do you think Bradford’s re-injuring of his shoulder will put him significantly lower in the draft? Do you think the Browns should go after him if we are still needing a QB by the draft?
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 18, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be pumped with 3 wins.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 18, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree 5-7 wins seems very possible.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think bradford will stay for his senior year. i do not want the browns to draft him after these injuries.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i can’t imagine a team ever selecting 15 players in one draft. having 15 picks is positive in that you can package many of those picks to improve your draft position and target specific players.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not even possible to roster all of those players, so it would make sense to try and move up at certain points in the draft.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You still give yourself a better shot at getting players who will make the roster. How many 6th/7th rounders catch on with a team?
I do like the idea of packaging picks to move up into the 2nd/3rd rounds, but if you drafted 15 players, you’d cast an awfully wide net.
by rufio on Oct 20, 2009 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, I guess the theory is that you are more likely to hit on a sleeper.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 20, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Problem would be you can’t just hit in the sense that your 6th rounder is good enough to play in the NFL, you have to really, really hit. Why replace one mediocre starter with another mediocre starter?
by rufio on Oct 22, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or use them to acquire picks in the following years draft.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it would be nice to have the first pick in rounds 2-10.
I agree about the first pick in the draft, I’d trade down, too much salary cap money dedicated to an unproven player.
Of course if there is no salary cap next year…
by JB-Cleve on Oct 18, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol yeah
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 19, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
543 to 197?
“It wasn’t a horrible game to watch, but when you’re dominated 543 to 197 in total yardage, you shouldn’t expect a victory.”
That is by definition horrible.
by tonywf on Oct 18, 2009 10:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
FIRST DOWN!!!!
This lead to 3 Steeler points. :(
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 18, 2009 11:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can’t imagine the angle that would have made that look like a first down. Maybe they were looking at the red part of the stick.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 18, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don’t see how it was the angle of the camera. did anyone see rob ryan dropping the F bomb like no tomorrow? i was so mad.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First down is the actual stick, not the orange padding. That’s just there so people can see the marker.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 18, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I know… but do the refs? ;-)
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 18, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, not to mention had we gotten the ball back we would’ve been down by 7 at the half. then we scored a TD 1st possession of the 3rd quarter. we would’ve been tied. …sigh…
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
here’s what happened with this…
ref #1 hmmm, it looks a little short to me. what do you think?
ref #2: yeah, i agree. first down cle—-
ben: —-oh, no no no! it’s a first down for us! i mean just look at that. it’s clearly a first down.
tomlin (from the sidelines): oh, if ben says it, it must be true. open your eyes, refs!
ref #1: well. 2 think it’s short. 2 think it’s a first down. let’s give the tiebreaker to the fans.
ref #2: they’re all cheering, so i guess we’ll just give them a first down. who cares if we screw over cleveland?
ref #1: you’re right! first down pittsburgh!
rob ryan: WHAT THE @%$!!!!!!! WHAT THE @%$!!!!!!! COME ON!!!
by emily522 on Oct 19, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts:
1. I like watching Cribbs have a larger role in the Wildcat. I wouldn’t mind seeing the Browns run this offense for the majority of a game. What do we have to lose?
2. Anyone else see Cribbs running the wildcat more, as a trade showpiece? Maybe it was just me, but…
3. If DA didn’t get benched today, he never is.
4. Tony Pike is the 2nd best QB in Ohio behind Palmer. I wish I was joking.
5. Jamal Lewis may be able to get 100 against the Buffalo’s of the world, but he is toast. Should have been 90/10 split for Harrision.
6. I have said it before, but McDonald should be benched. If he doesn’t want to tackle, sit his ass down. Let Francies get the time. Let someone who actually looks like they aren’t scared to tackle anything larger than a small girl get the time.
7. MoMass is doing a great job of making me remember BE.
8. I didn’t hear Casey Hampton’s name called once. Alex Mack is a beast.
9. Same for James Harrision. We should call Joe Thomas the eraser.
10. It was nice to see Robi (as some call him) with a grab.
11. Now that we have seen all three division teams, I think the division goes through Cinci. That was hard to type.
12. The Pats scored more offensive TD’s in one quarter today than we have all year. I cannot stress enough how bad our offense is. How do we get better?
13. We should trade Shaun Rogers.
14. I really, really, really hate Hines Ward.
15. How odd is it to see the Steelers have no running game?
16. With all the injuries at LB, where was Veikune? I didn’t notice him.
17. If there is a worse grouping of TE’s in the NFL, I haven’t seen them. I mean Rucker could not have helped at all?
18. Not that it mattered, but I would love to hear the NFL’s explanation of the 4th down spot.
19. I am watching the Bears-Falcons game, and I still want Jay Cutler.
20. First the Indians, then the Browns, then the Bucks. Am I the only one who is scared for the Cavs?
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 18, 2009 11:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Cribbs was used more to showcase, I think it was more of an effort to catch the Steelers off guard and see if something new could spark the offense. It did for a bit…until the interception.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 18, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I agree with you. But with all the talks this last week, it had that "Look what he can do" feel to it.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 18, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
13. Huh?
Why would we trade Rogers? They had NO running game up the middle at all. He was a one man wrecking crew in our only victory this year. I can’t see that one at all.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 18, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We aren’t winning more than 3 games this season. Trade Rogers, get picks, see if Rubin is worth keeeping.
I think we could get a haul for Rogers. Game-changing NT’s are very rare.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Jets may have lost Kris Jenkins for the season. I think they still have a first rounder. I’d trade Rogers straight up for Darrelle Revis.
The Bengals lost Antwone Odom for the year today too, but I wouldn’t trade someone of Rogers caliber within the division.
by golanbatrac on Oct 19, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So rare, I don’t think we let go of the one we have.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 19, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he isn’t Ted Washington old or Sam Adams old. Those guys were useful into their mid 30s. Rogers is 30 right now. He has 4-5 years at least at near his current level. I’d say probably 7 years or so as productive player in the NFL.
I don’t think age is a factor in a decision to keep or trade Rogers.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 19, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. NT can be useful late into the 30’s.
But Rogers value will never be any higher. We finished in last with him, we can finish in last without him.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we’re going to need him to get out of last place in another year or two. He’s not that old that he won’t still be a great player in a couple years when we’re hopefully contending again.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rogers is also more explosive and quicker than I ever remember Washington or Adams being. He could probably be productive longer than they were because of that.
by rufio on Oct 20, 2009 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
these are all very fair points about rogers. he’s the rare guy who could actually still be a substantial contributor when we’re good again (fingers crossed) in the 2011/12 seasons.
that said, i do think the guy could bring us something pretty massive in return (a first round pick, for sure, and potentially a player, too), which means you have to at least think about it.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would probably ask for a first + a mid round pick + a backup or late rounder. You would have to think about that deal, but I don’t know if I would be the one making the calls.
by rufio on Oct 22, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rubin is worth keeping. He is not a starting NT on a good defense.
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. agreed, as long as he doesn’t throw INTs again.
3. yeah, DA’s the qb for the rest of the season (i frown as i type that…) barring injury.
4. haha.
5. harrison should start in my opinion. i’m sorry but jamal is done. it’s too bad davis is out for the year. i was looking forward to see him play.
6. “bmac” sucks. why not put in francies? we know we have no shot at the playoffs, so start developing the rookies!
8 & 9. mack and thomas are great. now if we can improve the right side of the line….
10. robiskie should start or at least see way more playing time. again, developing the rookies. if when they draft a QB next year, do they really want questions at WR again? they drafted 2 WRs in the 2nd round for a reason!
11. honestly, cincy (or ravens) winning the division >>>>> steelers winning the division
12. new qb, wr improvement, less dropped passes, better running game. or we can clone tom brady ;)
14. he pisses me off. celebrating before reaching the end zone is the definition of being a jackass.
17. TE is also on the offseason shopping list.
19. not for everything the bears gave up to get him.
20. i’m not worried about the cavs. they’ll be great.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
11. BAL winning the division would be just as as bad — if not worse — than PIT winning it.
by JulioBernazard on Oct 19, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only thing I can think of is that the line to gain was marked by the red piece on the stick.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
by Villeslgr on Oct 18, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The ref was quoted as saying “the ball crossed the stake”.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 19, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even the Steelers players knew it was short. This is a quote from Hartwig in the Pittsburgh newspaper:
“I have no idea how they gave us a first down, but we’ll take it,” Hartwig said. “I’d say (it was short) by two chain links. It was obvious to everybody playing on the field. I don’t know how they called it the way they did, but … we’re not going to complain about it.”
by bbstirrd on Oct 19, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3. I’ve said that I think Quinn starts for the Browns again, with or without injury, this year. Maybe DA won’t get benched, per se, but I still think Quinn gets in. IN the second half of the season Mangini is going to want to see some Quinn in some live games.
4. Maybe he is, but dude is like 6’5" and 110 lbs, and that’s after reportedly adding 25 lbs this off season. He will keep breaking.
5. YES PLEASE! NO MORE LEWIS!
7. Wait- do mean because he was a productive Browns receiver or because he had a couple drops?
11. Hm. I still think the Steelers win by 2 games. Cincinnati finishes 8-8. I think.
12. Pats were absolutely scoring whenever they wanted to. I have never seen anything like it in the NFL. How do we get better? 1. Better Coordinator 2. Better QB
13. Maybe. His value may be its highest now, but that assumes we ever have to trade him. What is his contract status? Why create another hole to fill? Even an aging, or underperforming Rogers is very useful.
20. It does seem like a cycle of disappointment. LeBron though dude. LeBron.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 18, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah, i forgot to add coordinator. and i agree about rogers too.
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It does seem like a cycle of disappointment. LeBron though dude. LeBron.
if we didn’t have the cavs to watch, i think i’d go insane haha. that last second shot against orlando in game 2 happened on my birthday. amazing gift, even though they didn’t win.
did anyone ever see that news channel 5 thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOtunk4_Apc i know they lost the series, but that was awesome. (check out the guy in the far back right dancing around :49 hahaha)
by emily522 on Oct 18, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops i meant amazing gift even though they didnt win the series
by emily522 on Oct 19, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coordinator over QB? No way. A coordinator doesn’t get rid of the ball in the right spot under heavy blitz. A QB who makes the right reads basically is an offensive coordinator.
by joeee on Oct 19, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, but with a competent coordinator, you can find a way to score, and use the strengths of pieces you do have. Even if that doesn’t include a top QB.
Either way, I think we need both.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 19, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. I just – rightly or wrongly – have a hunch that the notion of a “genius chess master” offensive coordinator/coach is mad overblown. I’m hoping that era of coaching/management genius-worship is coming to a close.
by joeee on Oct 19, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that Daboll is so bad he doesn’t put the players in position to score.
Its not that we need a genius chess player, we need a good play designer. Coordinating is vastly underrated.
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 3:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coaching matters so much more in football than in any other sports. We’ve seen plenty of examples of great coaches winning with only average/good players. Of course, great players can win with average coaches, too, but we don’t have many great players so we need great coaching to put them in a position to be successful.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
12. The Pats scored more offensive TD’s in one quarter today than we have all year. I cannot stress enough how bad our offense is. How do we get better?
here’s another solution ;0)
by emily522 on Oct 19, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He does look good in a orange helmet though.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 19, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I cannot stress enough how bad our offense is. How do we get better?
Redesign the whole thing, front to back of the playbook. Unfortunately, I think that takes an offseason and probably a new coordinator.
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 3:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Mangini is kept after this season, which I believe he will be, what are the chances he would get rid of Daboll?
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is what I am thinking. Sigh…
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I think there is a very good chance if the passing game doesn’t get better.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 19, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No more Cavs talk. As a Warriors fan, I can’t take it!
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 19, 2009 12:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
sorry didn’t mean to turn this into a cavs thread, haha
by emily522 on Oct 19, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry dude. You sure can pick ’em… Are you a Pirates fan too? ;-)
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 19, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How dare you accuse me to be a Pirates fan!! lol
A’s fan, all the way.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 19, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anthony Randolph is going to EXPLODE this year.
One of my favorite players to watch. Plus Curry and Ellis is a fun backcourt.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about the play calling?
did anyone notice the exchange between Mangini and Dabs at one point on the sidelines? I believe it came after a wildcat up the middle play.
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 19, 2009 8:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What did they exchange? Fightin’ words? High fives?
by rufio on Oct 19, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
problem with Mangenicuss yesterday.. to busy looking down to unwrap his bubblegum and see if he won a prize.. . Any headcoach from highschool up would have seen to plucking up the lanes that rottenburger used to burn us; this morning news.. he told his staff no practice this week for the team, " I don’t want them to steal our gameplan"… Geeeezzzzzzzz
wbaron
by wbaron on Oct 19, 2009 9:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Worst Part Of Yesterday
…listening to Terry Bradshaw as CBS ran the highlights of this game.
He just HAD to point out that “in my years in Pittsburgh, I never lost to Cleveland at home”.
AHHHH!!!!!
by Pruitt on Oct 19, 2009 9:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oh, look at this!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/First-down-Eh-close-enough-Hard-to-explain-th;_ylt=As.dQ4wtzVYd9L6xk6aU4js5nYcB?urn=nfl,196646
anyway, i think it’s pretty unlikely that they beat GB or CHI. that means they’ll be 1-7 at the bye. i wouldn’t be surprised that if anderson doesn’t start improving, they decide to start brady vs. the lions. i hope it happens. i’m getting really sick of DA. but who knows? maybe the coaches want to just showcase DA (although i think his trade value would be going way down now…)
by emily522 on Oct 19, 2009 11:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What’s the negative opposite of showcasing? :)
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 19, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A close loss?
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 19, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the 4th down blown call:
http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2009/10/post_43.html
Even the Steelers knew it was short.
Justin Hartwig (Pitt Center):
“I have no idea how they gave us a first down, but we’ll take it,” Hartwig said. “I’d say (it was short) by two chain links. It was obvious to everybody playing on the field. I don’t know how they called it the way they did, but … we’re not going to complain about it.”
The camera angle actually made it look closer that it was, if anything. It was slightly behind the ball. I’m pretty upset about this.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 19, 2009 11:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ugh, that makes me so mad! well maybe we can get a fluke win against them at home.
by emily522 on Oct 19, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On All Bets Are Off, Bruce said that to get the first down the ball needs to be past the links not the post. If this is true then I think they got the first. But I haven’t ever heard the first down rule explained like that before.
by The Brown Note on Oct 19, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe the 10 yards end exactly where the chain links meet the post. Therefore, if any part of the ball extended beyond the end of the chain would mean a 1st down.
by rufio on Oct 20, 2009 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spokesman Corry Rush said the league supported referee Walt Anderson’s post-game comments. Anderson said the correct call was made and the ball ‘’touched the plane of the stake,’’ despite TV video that indicated otherwise."
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 20, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to the ref the ball touched the post/stake. There’s the rule explanation right there. So he blew it. And as a ex-coach, I can tell you that the actual post itself is the marker.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 20, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“The issue with Anderson is his psyche and his ability to prove whether he is worthy of being the QB of the future. At one point after the game, he apologized for losing track of a question by saying, "You can’t believe how frustrated I am right now."”
(full article: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;ylt=Ak7tAEuaJ_yhvroI99JUZ45nYcB?slug=tsn-nflteamreportsafcnor&prov=tsn&type=lgns)
by emily522 on Oct 19, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh for the days of....
Tim Couch, heck he actually beat the Stillers! Is that how far we have fallen, that we long for Tim Couch and Kevin Johnson? ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
11 picks next years, but who is doing the picking? Can we put Mel Kiper on the payroll, just for one year? :)
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 19, 2009 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure if Mel Kiper was any good at scouting college football players than some team would have hired him by now.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Damn straight. I give you +1.
Aren’t his picks based on what Pro scouts say and who they are lookin at anyways? No one can put Joe Cracker from Clown U at pick #194. I mean, c’mon. Kiper is lame and no one should take him seriously.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 19, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had Cracker going to the Fins in the third round of my mock draft.
by golanbatrac on Oct 19, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You just made my day.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 19, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m gunna rec and make you green. You deserve it!
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 19, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kiper’s got a great gig going now. Why would he spoil it by working for a team? I can’t imagine an NFL team would throw more money at him than he’s making now.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 19, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only that but working for a team he would be held accountable for his prognostications. With his job now he just has to get the viewers. Sounds like a sweet gig if you askme.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Oct 19, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I’d also like to know why people keep assuming that Kokinis and Mangini are going screw up our draft picks next year. They’ve only been in charge of ONE draft, and those players have played a total of SIX games, yet people assume they don’t know what they’re doing. We have a whole different front office so we shouldn’t make assumptions based on previous regimes.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because they are with Cleveland. Simple answer to a simple question.
All kidding aside, you are right. Even though I think they mismanaged their first draft, they should be given at least one more attempt.
by Cols714 on Oct 19, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is way, way, way too early to say they mismanaged their first draft. After all, how is Mark Sanchez looking now? That’s why you don’t make conclusions after three games.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually have been reasonably impressed with the first draft, quite the opposite impression. We saved a boat load of money not picking at 5, and appear to have solid players in Mack and Massaquoi already.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as someone who had been critical of the draft (particularly the second round), i’ve been pleasantly surprised. you’re right, mack shows very positive signs, and mass is starting to bring it. i also liked what i saw from robo this week.
now, veikune…UGH
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes it takes time, but I am still puzzled by the transition of college position to his pro position.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t sure about the draft at the time, especially round 2, but I gave Mangini a doubt.
Either way,
MoMass and Mack look like really solid picks.
Robo is starting to get some PT and that position was certainly one of need.
Not sure of Maiava or Veikune yet. Which is troubling only because this was the biggest position of need going into that draft.
I really like the Davis pick, though the injury sucks.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 19, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i loved the davis pick at the time, and like you i continue to love it. the injury is a serious bummer.
you sum up the reason is was so bummed about the early stages of the draft quite nicely here:
Not sure of Maiava or Veikune yet. Which is troubling only because this was the biggest position of need going into that draft.
i thought there were some impact LBs (not rey maualuga) that were available, and believed that LB was as big a need as anything on the team.
i’m mystified by veikune so far.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did Veikune even play on Sunday? I seriously would have thought he would be at least in games situationally by now.
by rufio on Oct 20, 2009 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he did, he didn’t record a tackle.
by golanbatrac on Oct 20, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Strangely, I actually feel fairly confident in what Mangini is doing. Although I must admit it’s probably because he is the 1st coach we have had since we came back that appears to know what he wants and is willing to do what he feels he has to do instead of listening to “The Experts” or whoever else.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Oct 19, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true, I guess we were fooled by all the talk Phil Savage’s strength was going to be the Drafts…. :(
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 19, 2009 2:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why did the O-line turn into a sieve in the second half? PIT just pinned their ears back and came after DA, without much resistance at all.
by JulioBernazard on Oct 19, 2009 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My guess is that part of the blame could be placed on the right side’s lack of talent. The other portion could be that Pitt has tremendous pass rushers.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It does seem that people have been overlooking the quality of the Steelers defense in general in this postmortem thread. They’re pretty good.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 19, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, I don’t want to get too caught up in early season record, this is still a top team in the league.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep. I think NFL fans (and I do this too) forget that the other team gets payed as well. So where you see Joe Thomas get beat, you blame him where I think that it was just a great play by Harrison.
by Cols714 on Oct 19, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t able to see the game, did Thomas get beat? I remember him having a holding call, but wasn’t sure if he allowed a sack.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think he ever really got beat, I was just using it as an example.
by Cols714 on Oct 19, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, it was weird for me to read, so I wanted to check.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True. It just seemed the O-Line was holding their own decently, and then fell of a cliff (once they were tired).
by JulioBernazard on Oct 19, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
James Harrison: 0 sacks.
I love Joe Thomas.
by rufio on Oct 20, 2009 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
on the yahoo depth chart, they list robiskie as the #1 receiver and momass as the #2 receiver. is this just a mistake or is robo starting now?
by emily522 on Oct 19, 2009 9:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i just read an article saying:
“"It’s a real nice opportunity for Brian Robiskie to continue his development," head coach Eric Mangini said upon Edwards’ departure. Mangini also indicated both rookie receivers could start if they earned it.”
so maybe?
by emily522 on Oct 19, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m guessing Mangini’s depth charts aren’t exactly done…faithfully? In the spirit of the rule?
by rufio on Oct 20, 2009 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just don't get it?
Why is Anderson still the QB here?
I know Quinn is not the answer but at least give Ratliffst a chance can not get any worse then what we see now.Anderson 3-4 turnovers a game is getting old and has been the reason for points scored on the D just as Quinn’s issues with throwing down field.But truth be told Quinn’s numbers vs 3 better D’s look alot better then Anderson vs 2 1/2 not so great looking D’s
My only guess to this is Mangini is tanking the reset of the season and best way to do that is leave the turnover machine in there and let Anderson take the fall for how bad the O looks.
This by far has to be the worst browns team I have seen in my 30 years as a browns fan
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 19, 2009 9:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My only guess to this is Mangini is tanking the reset of the season…
No.
by golanbatrac on Oct 19, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is the way it feels to me.Why else would you leave this man in at QB? Anderson has been no better then Quinn yet he is still in the QB. Anderson in 3 games has a avg of 3 turnovers a game that is bad not just bad but very very bad…So why keep him in if you are really trying to win and not tank the season for the high pick to trade for more picks to fill voids in this team?
I just don’t see it as Anderson gives us the best chance to win when he can’t throw the ball to the right team.Anderson alone has lost 2 with bad throws and bad judgement and really looks like he is the best ot tank it with little to no effort due to the turnovers.
Just the way it feels to me.It might not be why but just feels like it.
Go Browns 2010!!
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 19, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there is literally no possible chance that anything even remotely resembling “tanking” is going on w/ the browns and mangini. seriously, the possibility of that is absolute zero on a kelvin scale…
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AS long as Anderson is taking the snaps to me we are just tanking the season to get a high pick sorry call it how I see it.Any QB that has done what he has in the last 2 games and still has a job then the front office is set on a high pick and tanking the season.Sure they wont say it and will give the song and dance of working on the bad spots but really if they are working on the bad spots would that not also mean looking at another QB? Hell even Ratliff at this time would be better IMO any one other then Anderson.If this team really is not trying to tank it then Anderson should not be the QB
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 20, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But our other QB’s haven’t shown that they’ll be any better than Anderson. We’ve only had one game this year where our offense looked good (against Cincinnati) and that was when DA was the quarterback. Playing Anderson doesn’t mean we’re “tanking the season” — maybe he does give us our best chance to win. Now, if we had a good backup waiting then you might have a point, but there is no reason to think that Quinn or Ratliff would play any better than him.
Football coaches don’t tank games. That’s a simply ridiculous premise. Coaches want to win every game they play in; they don’t lose purposely for high draft picks.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 20, 2009 7:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
call it how I see it
i hate this meme. calling it how you see it doesn’t make you any less wrong. my dad is color blind…according to how he sees it, grass is red.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Butch Davis’s last year was far worse. I would also say last year was worse given the expectations.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also the first season was horrible.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 19, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even those years the O has not looked anywere as bad as this teams O has looked
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 19, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well that’s not at all true. in ’99 the offense was abysmal.
the last 6 games last year the offense literally did not score a touchdown. that’s MUCH worse than the first 6 games this year.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now you are just being absurd. The last 3 games, the line has been as good as its been since mid 2007. And the line between 99 and 01 was historically bad.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 19, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am talking overall O play not 1 spot that looks soso overall O has been bad from play calling to the team’s play it has just been ugly to look at.
Look at it WR that cant catch a QB that throw behind,under,around or to the other team a running game that is just bad a line that has 1 maybe 2 of the best palyers on the offense and a team that has special teams out scroing the offence by alot.So far 90% of this teams points has came from ST play or D returns and yes last years O was bad but I see the hurt players there not as much as it was ugly.This team is just ugly.
Just got to hope for next year and hope some how we get it going in the right direction.I see the parts being lined up and I see hope down the line just don’t see it getting much better with Anderson throwing the ball now or even down the line.Hell even the QB’s of 99-02 never had stat lines as bad as Andersons last 2 games
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 20, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell even the QB’s of 99-02 never had stat lines as bad as Andersons last 2 games
Did you actually look up the stats or are you just assuming that’s true? Because I’m pretty certain that you’re wrong.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 20, 2009 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just looked it up to be sure and from what i was able to find not 1 of the QB have put the numbers of DA last 2 games.Hell even Couch ended the season of 99 with 55% comp 2,4 447 yard 15 td and 13 ints even better number then what DA will end this season with.Not to bad for a team that sucked IMO
A 2 game set of 11-41 163 yards 1 td and 3 ints I find it hard to even look at at least 99 I was able to look at the Box score and shrug this year I don’t even want to look at the box score because I know DA will be bad.
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 20, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not talking about for the whole season, I’m talking about two games. It’s almost impossible for any QB to put up numbers this bad for an entire season — mostly because if they’re this bad they usually get benched — but plenty of QB’s have had two bad games like this.
I was never an Anderson fan, but you can’t say you “know” he will be awful every game. He had plenty of great games two years ago and played well a few times last year. And he wasn’t bad against Cincy. This is two really bad games, but let’s not act like he’s always like this. Plus, he’s not getting any help from his receivers.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 21, 2009 7:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like i said I did look and from what I found no QB on that team put up Back to Back game numbers that DA did.I posted the end stats because we will be lucky to see DA even get close to them..Also that whole receivers stuff is crap Couch had no good WR in his group eather but yet he did put up ok number for that year.
The issue with DA is he throws the ball 450 mph even when he don’t need to.Maybe if someone sit him downs and says hey DA on then 5-10 yard pass try to put a little love on the ball not every throw has to be a rocket!If he does that he might not see so many drops in a game.I also don’t think all the drops are WR fault can’t always pick them off your shoe tops or behind you.I know they get paid to but the great ones know how to hit there WR in stride…..
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 21, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So far 90% of this teams points has came from ST play or D returns
interesting…and completely made up. we’re happy to have discussions here, but you can’t make random shit up to support your points.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok the 90% was a little over the top but lets look at the numbers the O has scrored 4 times this year and no FG are ST not O.While ST has scored 2 TD’s off returns and 9 FG.It is sad when ST has scored most of your points and is only 2 TD’s off what you O has done.No matter what numbers do not lie this is the worst O in the NFL and IMO the worst I have ever saw on a football field
To break it down more we have scroed 73 points this year and ST has put up 49 of the 73….. (still think I am missing a D return td in there) that is 67% of are points are from ST
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 20, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are insane to give credit to special teams for the field goals unless they were the result of a punt/kick return that set them up in field goal range and occurred after a 3-and-out by the offense with no yardage gained.
and i feel i’m being kind by using the word “insane”. plenty others come to mind first.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Oct 20, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m not saying the offense is good, but your hyperbole is way over the top. if you’d lead with the numbers, then i would have followed you more. although, how does 2 TDs (14) + 9 FGs (27) add up to 49 for st (it’s 41)? did you leave something out?
and insane is a charitable description. i may be willing to entertain an argument that splits points b/w offense and special teams for a fg (like 2 for offense and 1 for st), but 100% to special teams? that is certifiable. why wouldn’t you give the PAT to special teams, too, while you’re at it.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“your” = 4ever…not you, rolub. apologies.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even the NFL list FG as ST points and the xtra point is issues to the kicker as ST points that is why a TD is 6 points not 7.Look it up a player is award 6 points when they score a TD not 7 and the Kicker is awarded the xtra point and he is listed as a ST player.That is why kickers points are always high becauswe they add FG + Xpoint as kicker points and a kicker is ST player this making them all ST score’s.Thst is also why it id the ST that takes the heat for missed FG not the O so why would it not be listed as such if they take heat for the miss?
Apples/oranges I guess but IMO it is ST points if that is the case then ST should get 2 for ever TD because if they don’t return the ball the the O would start at a worse spot then they do now.
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 20, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what heat does the ST take for a missed FG? certainly no statistical heat…in fact, i’d argue that the offense takes the statistical heat in that they get no points for having put the team in scoring position, and then the kicker blows it.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 21, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kickers get paid based on how many they make and how many they miss would you want a kicker that hits 50% of his FG or one that hit 68% of his FG?
(yes I also understand the whole distance as well that figures into makes/miss FG)
Kicker,punters and return men take heat for there stats just as much as the O for not doint there job.
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 21, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kickers get paid based on how many they make and how many they miss
that’s cute, but they don’t. all players, not just kickers, are paid by teams based on what value that team feels they will bring to their future success. If kickers got paid based on their past accuracy, then Mike Vanderjagt, the most accurate kicker in NFL history, would be mulling over $10M contracts right now instead of sitting in Toronto doing nothing. Or, Matt Stover, the league’s 3rd most accurate kicker, wouldn’t have needed a mid-season injury to Adam Vinatieri in order to get a job.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Oct 21, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong they do.You do not pay a kicker based on anythign else then can he put the ball between the goal post that is all there is to it they get paid to kick nothing more nothing less.Why else would you have FG % made/missed and distance % if people did not worry about how good the kicker was at kicking? why have one then just let a WR kick …..
Kickers get paid to kick bottom line.More they get in the more they are paid and longer they play.
Just think we all just have to agree to disagree on this one
Nice chating with you all :)
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 21, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Think I fast fingerd the the math and screwed it up sorry about that
But it should be ST td (12)+ FG (27)+ Xpt (6) = 45 + O TD (24) = 69
This just shows how different people look at game numbers I guess but meh we both know the O is bad
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 20, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The special teams can’t kick a field goal unless the offense puts them in position to kick one (barring a turnover). I’ve never heard anyone say that field goals shouldn’t be credited to the offense — that’s a ridiculous premise.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 21, 2009 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the problem is that whenever field goals or extra points are discussed it’s always mentioned as special teams play.
I’ve never really heard anyone talk about who should get credit for the points though.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Oct 21, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, field goals and extra points are a special teams play. But to say that the offense doesn’t deserve any credit for creating those points is illogical. You can’t kick an extra point unless you score a TD first, and most (though certainly not all) TD’s are scored by the offense.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 21, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is getting dangerously close to a hair-splitting contest. It doesn’t matter who gets credit for the number of points scored: the Browns are absolutely terrible at scoring them. There’s no argument that this is an awful offense, period. Just answer this honestly: how much confidence do you have that the Browns will be able to score if they receive the ball on their own 20, say after a kickoff into the end zone? For me, it’s about 5%. Now say that Cribbs gets a good return out to the Browns 40. How much confidence now? I probably improve to 10%. I’m not even that confident if they get the ball already in field goal range: there’s a fairly good chance that they’ll screw it up and end up with nothing anyway. That’s an offensive offense.
by drjeo on Oct 21, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now say that Cribbs gets a good return out to the Browns 40. How much confidence now?
Probably still about 5%.
by rufio on Oct 22, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing in the expansion era compares to the Carson/Shofner season. Had Modell moved the team at the end of that season, I wouldn’t have cared.
by golanbatrac on Oct 19, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last season was easily the worst for me. Coming off a 10-6 season, full slate of primetime games, and splat.
Horrible.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 20, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We did beat the Giants.
Edwards: “we back now baby we back now”
Yeah right.
by skipkirk on Oct 20, 2009 5:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember Anderson appearing in a Peter King column after the Browns first win over the Bengals in which we only scored like 14 pts telling King that “we had our swagger back.”
by Roger Dorn on Oct 20, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Asking a player to evaluate his team is like asking the guy in the men’s room who hands out towels who is going to win the chess tournament. It’s so far above the player’s pay grade, it’s laughable.
by elsandito on Oct 20, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DA still needs some chemistry to develop between he and #11 and #80, they are rookies who didnt have much playing time in the first 4 or 5 games. His touch drives me nuts, but the throws that Royal has been dropping, Winslow made and I am sure other TE’s could make those plays. I dread it when I see a screen pass developing….take some off the ball Derek!
Parts of these games look like preseason games where the offense is still trying to figure out how these plays are supposed to be run.
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 20, 2009 9:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Winslow has Randy Moss hands. Royal has Tight End hands.
by golanbatrac on Oct 20, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs