LB D'Qwell Jackson Goes on Injured Reserve
by Chris Pokorny on Oct 21, 2009 12:54 AM EDT
in General News
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PrintThe Cleveland Browns placed LB D'Qwell Jackson on the injured reserve Tuesday due to a shoulder injury. Jackson suffered the injury during the second quarter of Sunday's game against the Pittsburgh Steelers.
With Jackson being the team's defensive captain and Mangini's highest-coveted played on defense, the loss is a big blow to the defense. In a positive light, it should provide some first-year experience to either David Veikune or Kaluka Maiava. Considering Jackson is in line to be one of our starting middle linebackers for the foreseeable future though, it would've been ideal to have Veikune or Maiava be able to work alongside Jackson. Another option at inside linebacker is Jason Trusnik, who started in place of Wimbley against the Steelers.
Eric Barton now takes on a bigger role, as it would seem to make sense for him to take over some of Jackson's responsibilities. Jackson already had 57 tackles this season.
Assuming Kamerion Wimbley returns from the flu this weekend, this is my guess for the starting linebacker unit that will be on the field against the Green Bay Packers:
David Bowens - Eric Barton - Jason Trusnik - Kamerion Wimbley
I think Maiava will split reps with Trusnik, but I don't think Mangini will throw him into the starting unit just yet, especially with the "respect" he showed to Trusnik last week by starting him over Alex Hall.
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Was anything said on what type of shoulder injury it was?
Will he go under the knife?
I hope what ever it is that is does not become a long term issue for DQ I love watching him play.Ths will hurt alot but it does give us a chance to see the young LB play a bit..
The rumor is a torn pectoral tendon and that he does need surgery.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 21, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
i’ve been told that’s one of the most painful injuries going
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 21, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
LB DEPTH
I see the respect that Mangini show Trusnik but I do not know why. The kid added nothing, his sack was a coverage sack, and his credit for assists on tackles were nothing more than jumping on the pile at the end of the play. Mangini puts too much honor into his old Jets crew. Coleman should not be starting ahead of Williams either.
i mostly agree, but its hard to argue coleman hasn’t looked better than williams
by notthatnoise on Oct 21, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Vaikune and Trusnik are both 4-3 middle linebacker talents. We play a 3-4.
David Bowens, Marcus Bernard, Titus Brown, Alex Hall, Kamerion Wimbley are all attempts at getting a James Harrison/DeMarcus Ware type DE/LB player for a 4-3 alignment. In a speedy game, they are inadequate as outside linebackers, and they are obviously sized wrong to be inside or middle linebackers.
The only 3-4 linebackers are Eric Barton, Kaluka Maiava and Blake Costanzo. Ok, Vaikune has above average wheels.
Looks like a predicament to me. I vote 3-4 all the way.
Either 3-4 or 4-3:
Shaun Rogers
Robaire Smith
4-3:
David Bowens
Kenyon Coleman
Brian Schaefering
Keith Grennan
3-4:
Carlton Powell
Ahtyba Rubin
C.J. Moseley
Corey Williams
So following my own logic, the current Browns team is:
DT Carlton Powell…thumbs up
DT Ahtyba Rubin…thumbs up
DT Corey Williams…don´t know
OLB Eric Barton…good veteran presence
ILB Jason Trusnik…actually a middle linebacker
ILB David Vaikune…actually a middle linebacker or 4-3 OLB
OLB Kaluka Maiava…nice, but there are better ones
CB Brodney Pool…I´ll take a slight hit on speed in return for physicality
CB Nick Sorensen…same as above
FS Eric Wright…missing his calling, this is our Ryan Clark
SS Abe Elam…big thumbs up
Sounds like a problem. Maybe he can learn.
by mooncamping on Oct 22, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
You know what, I checked Eric Wright on Google images, and there are a lot of images. But there is not a single one where he is actually in the proximity of the receiver/ball carrier. He looks very athletic in all the pictures, jumping really high and very dynamic. Maybe there is a cease and desist order requiring him to keep a certain distance?
But that´s still better than entering Ryan Clark. Most of those pictures depict him in his tatumesque hit on Willis McGahee, like that´s all he´s ever done.
I think watching him play in an actual game tells you much more about a player than a few still images captured by a camera.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 23, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Nick Sorensen is horrible. A nice ST player. That’s it.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 22, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The hit in speed you would be taking by putting Sorenen at CB wouldn’t be “slight”, it would be “immense”, “crazy”, “huge”, “very big”, etc.
I seriously think I can run a faster short shuttle, 3 cone drill, or 20 yard dash than Sorensen.
Well yeah, they´re not perfect. But at least they don´t risk their health when impacting.
That must have been one of the smartest moves in the history of the NFL, instituting dwarvish cornerbacks, so all you can expect of them is to cover receivers, thus forcing the offenses to forgo any running plays to the outside as a matter of fairness.
If teams can run all the way out to Wright, someone in the front 7 has already messed up. CBs can sacrifice size for speed because the DL and LB should be able to contain RBs on their own.
Again, even “dwarvish” CBs like Antoine Winfield can stop the run. Winfield is THE best run-stopping CB in the league, and he is 5’9", 180lbs on a good day. That is about 1.5" and 15 lbs. smaller than Wright.
Then he is rare and a freak, and a good example of what coaches must have been looking for when they made these small guys popular.
It´s a good example of failure at replicating success at a position, when you identify standouts.
While I´m at it, and I think except for the line, the offense is doomed.
Here is the fully enabled, temporary offense:
QB Brett Ratliff…career backup with the Browns
FB Lawrence Vickers…Good fullback, but inept at carrying the ball
HB Cedric Peerman…Temporary
OT Joe Thomas…All Pro
OG Hank Fraley…wiley veteran, hope he has a few more years
C Eric Steinbach…fatten him up, he can do it
OG Alex Mack…agree to disagree, but he´s a guard
OT Phil Trautwein…good thing we signed him, he´s the perfect bookmark for Joe
TE Robert Royal…As good as Daniel Graham (Broncos)
FL Josh Cribbs…All purpose…compromise as freaky flanker…Boss Bailey?
WR Mike Furrey…sure handed steady eddie
He´s breaking some kind of law then, because we signed him first.
by mooncamping on Oct 23, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Boss Bailey is a Linebacker. You have him at WR.
Do you hav……………
Nevermind.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 24, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you think it´s easier to push around a guy that is fat in the gutt and butt than a guy with a narrow physique (Eric Steinbach currently)? If so, you don´t understand the principle of gravity.
False: See Mike Williams or Aaron Gibson.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 24, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I am watching Minnesota playing the Ohio State University right now, and Minnesota looks like they have a RT who weighs about 350lbs. He also looks like I could move him backwards and he can’t move laterally at all.
It is easier to lift a guy who weighs less, not necessarily to push him backward. Gravity applies force in only one direction: down.
Steinbach’s “narrow” physique isn’t a problem because he plays with tremendous leverage and he is very, very quick for a man his size. Also, as I explained earlier, a small guy can be much stronger than a big guy.
Steinbach can get under a DT’s pads (because he plays with good leverage) and he can do so quickly (because he is quick), and from that point on it doesn’t matter how much each guy weighs or how much each guy can bench press.
The line isn’t a strongest man competition, linemen need to be athletes and technicians or they can’t succeed in the NFL.
As an example, when i was in high school I was 165lbs and I distinctly remember throwing around some 300lb offensive tackle that played for Orange. I was small and weak, but I was quick, good with my hands, and had great balance. The other kid was just fat.
by notthatnoise on Oct 24, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Does anyone else think that mooncamping spends way too much time looking at — and talking about — football players’ butts?
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 24, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Corey Williams has actually been much more effective as a DT in a 4-3 scheme. He was getting 6 sacks/year in the 4-3 up in Green Bay.
Rubin could probably play NT in either, but would only be a backup in either.
Coleman has been good in the 3-4, and I don’t think he is strong enough to play NT or quick enough to play the “3 technique” in a 4-3.
I don’t trust Bowens to stop the run as an end in a 4-3.
Mosley can probably play in either scheme.
Corey Williams is clearly a 43 player
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 23, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Can you please explain why Bowens is suited for a 4-3 when he has played in a 3-4 for just about his entire NFL career?
Can you please explain why James Harrison is a DE/LB for a 4-3 alignment when he exclusively played as a 3-4 DE/LB his entire NFL career?
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 21, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
No, he can’t. Those are what we call “facts”, and mooncamping doesn’t have any use for facts.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 21, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You dare challenge the inventor of the mutant wildcat / tribid by insisting on facts? Bah. They’re the hobgoblins of small minds.
Wait, that was a foolish consistency, but still….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 21, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Foolish consistencty except when it lacks inconsistency. Time will truly be the judge of our eternal souls.
So mote it be, lest it be done to you.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 21, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Were is the Pasta Salad I would like some of it….
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 22, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Forget the salads. Our salad-based dishes all have the wrong physical proportions to play at the salad positions. They would be better suited to be deserts in a 5-2 scheme.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 22, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We just signed Michael Gaines.
Let’s get stone hands Royal the ‘F’ out of there.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Oct 21, 2009 12:33 PM EDT reply actions
i agree this hurts, but it is an interesting opportunity to see what Jackson’s true value is. We’ve heard many people say Jackson was only a slightly improved Andra Davis, and that he makes too many of his tackles too down field. With him out, we’ll be able to see exactly what his impact is based on how the D performs without him. If nothing much changes it shows that Jackson really isn’t much of a plus player.
I do think he is above average though, and i think our D will slip without him, thus proving he’s a very talented middle linebacker.
I know we can look at defensive stats and perhaps draw some conclusions about Jackson’s value. But the fact is, the Browns had the 32nd rated defense when he went down with injury. They’re not likely to drop much farther than that, no?
Yes, it can get worse. Jackson and Rogers are probably the best two defensive players we have, without one of them, our defense will be a sieve.
A real ray of sunshine there, RD. Accurate I’m sure, though. Unfortunately.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 21, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but that wasn’t my point. They’re already last in the league by most defensive standards. They’re not going to be any more last , although they might well fall farther and farther behind the 31st ranked team. Perhaps they can be like DA, who is currently the 36th ranked QB in a league with only 32 starters.
the rankings are bad, i don’t think we’re actually the worst D in the NFL. When i say we’ll see a difference i mean in the simple eyeball test. I think our D will look a lot worse, not necessarily have worse stats.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
If it wasn’t obvious, my original post about becoming “more last” was in jest. The full rankings can be found at espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team. I couldn’t get the link to work – sorry.
Summary info:
Total Yards 32nd
Yds/Game 32nd
Passing Yds. 25th
Passing yds/game 23rd
Rushing Yds. 30th
Rushing Yds./game 30th
Points Allowed 28th
Points/Game 26th.
I actually think the defense is better this year, but it’s hard to justify statistically. True, defensive metrics are imprecise at best, but they’re not totally meaningless. There is legitimate room for the defense to get worse, and I think it’s pretty likely without D’Qwell.
I agree with all of this. I know there are some people who think Jackson is over-rated, I guess we’ll see now.
by notthatnoise on Oct 24, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I tjhink they should give the nod to Maiava, because he’s the back-up and has been playing it since camp started! He showed he can play it against the Steeler’s, he’s #13 on the team for tackles (for a special teamer), and has got the most game time experience this season as the mike compared to Vaikune who has zero tackles on the year, hasn’t played the Mike position, and who is only listed on one special team. Trusnik has Mike experience although he is best at the OLB position. He may be the one in the mix to share time with Maiava, but only to ween Maiava into full duties. Just my thoughts! Maiava also looked fast this past Sunday!
Tony Grossi said it well. Hell, this team hasn’t even really experienced it’s rash of injuries yet, but we all know that’s coming’
Jeez, can you imagine? THIS team with a rash of injuries?!?
(shudder)
No matter how many games they win, the Ravens will always be that town's second, lamer girlfriend. They used to have Art Donovan, and Johnny U, and Jim Parker. Now, they get Ray Ray. They'll always pine for their first love, until the generation that grew up on the Colts finally dies off, and all that remains are camo-clad, retarded Maryland rednecks you see outside M&T Bank Stadium today. Ravens fans today consist solely of dudes who sold you your Christmas tree.
Well, considering where the team stands these days I don’t see any reason for not giving all of the rookies more playing time. It’s not as if it would ruin a chance at the playoffs.
Or make us look any worse then we already look….
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 22, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Is it my imagination, but wasn’t the NFL a model of parity just a season or two ago?
And now, we have the Haves: Indy, Bal, Pitt, NE, NYG, Phi, Min, Chi, Den, etc, that may all end up with11 or more wins and the Have Nots: us, Oak, StL, TB, Det, Ten, Wash who will be lucky to get 4 wins each?
There still may be a few teams between 6 and 10 wins, but I think we’ll have more outlier teams with 5 or less and 11 or more wins than .500 teams this season.
this season has certainly been weird that way
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he might be a BUST! Just about everyone else’s 2nd round picks are contributing. What has he done? I say Bust! Big Boy Pants is right, he should start earning some of his contract!
I’m worried also, but you gotta relax. 6 games.
He has plenty of time.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 22, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Animal and Malulululululaga are the only ones I can think of.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 24, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not too worried about Veikune. They’ve had him backing up Barton, and Maiava backing up Jackson. I’ve heard they might slide Barton over to Jackson’s spot, then bring in Veikune.
I’ve also been ok with Trusnik on the outside. He’s been getting sacks and tackles for losses while still being new with Ryan’s system.
Eric Wright
What? Slides off a highway ramp at 2 AM this morning…..I guess he is ok, and
was not cited either…..dodged one there.
Look to next year draft, our season is done
Start rebuilding for next year folks, this will be one long season. Knowing Mangini’s philosophy, the evaluation process of looking at each player has begun. Cleveland should start by firing the Strength coach, he is very terrible. In the draft, pick players who can dominate the game, especially players the Browns’ need,not players you want ( I want a million dollars, but I need a job). This cripples the franchise in a major way. This new GM should really look at this problem as it becomes a blackeye for both the coach and the maturation of the team. It does not matter if players are being drafted from Savannah State, Abilene Christian or East Carolina, give the Browns’ someone who is highly productive, a gym rat sort of speak, fit well in Mangini’s system and can adapt to Cleveland’s cold weather of Power Football especially in the trenches.
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