Mangini: Worst Coaching Hire Ever?
by johnnyphoenix on Oct 21, 2009 4:25 PM EDT
119 comments
Here's an article I just read from SI.Com by Joe Posnanski. If it's been posted before I apologize. Anyways, I think there are a few good points here and there but overall it's a hatchet job...I am certainly not a Mangini fan by any means...but this public lambasting by the national media is getting a little out of hand. Surprisingly, Romeo didn't make the list
Mangini: Worst coaching hire ever?
"I haven't come up with a new word for a while, so I want to throw one out there .. the word is "fanbole" (pronounced FAN-buh-lee).
The definition is simply: A sweeping, exaggerated and often ludicrous sports statement that a fan makes when under the influence of an emotional sports event (and perhaps various substances).
If you see a shortstop make a diving stop and throw out a runner, you might say: "That's the greatest play I have ever seen." That would be a fanbole. It might be the greatest play you ever saw, but it probably isn't. In that moment, it feels that way.
If you see the Kansas City Chiefs give up against the Philadelphia Eagles like they did on Sunday, you might say: "This is the worst football team in the history of the NFL." That too would be a fanbole. The Chiefs are terrible, but they are probably not the worst team in NFL history. Probably not.
You call a player the worst ever, a coach a genius, a general manager an idiot -- these are probably fanboles.
But one of the fun things about a fanbole is that sometimes, after uttering one (or tweeting one), you will find that after you think about it for a while -- hey, you know what? -- you ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT
I recently tweeted this:
"Another one of those fan maybe-overstatement-maybe-not thoughts: Eric Mangini was the worst NFL head coach hire in 25 years."
Now, I'll admit -- that's pure fanbole. I cannot stand what Eric Mangini has done to the Browns, the team of my childhood. I cannot stand the lack of respect he has shown for the team's history, the Mickey Mouse game he plays with quarterbacks, the amazing knack he has for getting his players to not play hard for him or the stupid fines he hands out like he's Principal Vernon from "The Breakfast Club." Don't mess with the bull, young man, you'll get the horns.
But here's the thing: Based on the Twitter responses I've seen ... I'm actually starting to believe that I'm right. I'm actually starting to believe that Mangini really was the worst head coach hire in 25 years. The responses have mostly been to list other coaches who were worse hires than Mangini. But you know what? I don't think any of those hires WERE worse than Mangini. Remember:
1. Mangini had just been fired in New York, where he had done a terrible job. He had a losing record. His team had collapsed down the stretch, he had alienated his players, he was a pain in the neck to deal with. Point is: He'd already PROVEN how much damage he could do as a coach.
2. He came right out of the school of Bill Belichick ... and that didn't work THE FIRST TIME in Cleveland. It seems to me that Cleveland is a working-class town and Browns fans want a working-class coach -- not some pompous know-it-all who doesn't feel like he should have to explain to the commoners what he's doing.
3. What had he ever done to convince anyone he could be a head coach in the first place? Why, because he was a defensive coordinator for the Patriots under Belichick for one season? The Browns had JUST HIRED Romeo Crennel, who was ALSO defensive coordinator under Belichick. Attention Cleveland Browns owners, here's a good hint: BILL BELICHICK IS HIS OWN DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR.
4. Basically the first thing Mangini did -- first thing -- was have them tear down a mural of great Cleveland Browns players on the wall in the Browns offices. Now, there are differing opinions about what really happened, whose fault it really was, does it all matter, etc. You know what? The Cleveland Browns have never been to a Super Bowl. Never. Not one. But Browns fans still have a whole lot of pride. Browns fans grow up on a glorious history. If you allow something stupid like that to happen on your watch ... just a horrendous hire.
Now, here is a partial list of hires Twitter people think were worse than Mangini ... and why I disagree*:
*And remember: I'm talking about WORST HIRES, not necessarily WORST COACHES. Sometimes what seems like a good hire can turn disastrous. And sometimes what seems like a bad hire turns out well. We're talking specifically about the decision to hire Mangini here.
• Art Shell (Oakland): Admittedly this was a dreadful hire ... but there's no way it comes close to Mangini. Shell is a Raiders legend, a Hall of Famer player, who was also the first African American coach in the NFL (well, second, going back to Fritz Pollard in the 1920s). He actually coached the Raiders to three playoff appearances in five years in his first stint. True, when the Raiders hired him the second time he clearly had lost his coaching marbles ... but there's no way that's as bad a hire as Mangini.
• Jim Zorn (Washington): Well ... maybe. The whole process of hiring Zorn was nutty, and it's pretty clear he was overmatched. But Jim Zorn was a fine and fun quarterback, so at least he had that going for him. Plus he had not just been fired as a head coach.
• Bobby Petrino (Atlanta): This turned out to be a disastrous hire ... but I don't think it was considered bad at the time. Petrino was one of the hottest names in college football.
• Raheem Morris (Tampa Bay): Whew, yeah, that's a bad hire. But, again, at least he was hired from within and he had not just been canned.
• Steve Spurrier (Washington): No way. Not even close. Spurrier turned out to be a horrible NFL coach, but the hire itself was exciting and had every chance to work. NFL teams were falling over each other to hire Spurrier as a head coach. This isn't even in the same ballpark as the Mangini hire.
• Tom Cable (Oakland): The Raiders should have their own category when it comes to terrible NFL coach hires. But even this hire to me is not as insulting and infuriating as the Mangini hire. I mean, everyone in New York -- players, fans, media members, everyone -- DESPISED Mangini. I mean, I'm still wondering who in New York Mangini could have put down as a reference.
• Rich Kotite (New York Jets): Well, this hire has many of the same problems as the Mangini hire -- Kotite had just been canned, nobody liked him, and so on. But at least Kotite was a New Yorker who had played in the NFL and he had a winning record as a coach. This WAS bad ... I think Mangini was worse.
• Scott Linehan (St. Louis): Bad hire, of course, but he was a longtime assistant coach who had success in various other places. He'd coached in high school, in college, he was offensive coordinator for the Vikings and Dolphins. I don't think the hire itself compares to Mangini, though I certainly feel the Rams fans pain of having to endure two and a half seasons with him as coach.
• Marty Mornhinweg (Detroit): He was considered a bright young coordinator when the Lions hired him -- and he's offensive coordinator for the Eagles now. Plus, he lasted two years with the Lions (long enough to elect to kick off in overtime). I really don't think Mangini will last the season."
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This was posted as a FanShot almost a month ago when the article first appeared. Here is the link.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 21, 2009 5:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Mangini can be truly evaluated yet. He inherited an awful team, and instead of trying to patch holes, he has decided gut everything and build from the foundation up. He got rid of the divas, and has aquired a ton of picks for what is looking like a very deep draft. As long as the team continues to show signs of life, I can live with it.
by OSUMoneyball on Oct 21, 2009 6:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mangini has been a disaster. This offense is much worse than it was last year (before DA and Quinn went down with injuries), while really the only player they lost was Winslow. And this is with Edwards dropping every other ball last year. DA and Quinn’s confidence levels are both shot; he has handled these guys worse than Crennel by a long shot.
The defense looks a little better (except when guys are running free in the secondary).
As for his success, it doesn’t take any talent to trade players for draft picks. I can’t wait for our 3 5th rounders next spring.
by oxforddave on Oct 21, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edwards played much worse this year than last year, and the right side of our line has been musical chairs.
Our Defense has been light-years better than this year, when they aren’t playing 45 minutes.
Maybe DA and Quinn are just bad. Maybe it has nothing to do with confidence. (I also don’t think confidence affects DA all that much).
by notthatnoise on Oct 21, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
defense is better than LAST year*
by notthatnoise on Oct 21, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The offense did not score a TD in its last 6 games last year…..and in the first 3 games last year it was even more pathetic than anything we have seen this year. I can only remember 3 games last year where the offense did anything impressive (NYG, Den, Buf.) He gutted a terrible team, so it should be expected that the offense would be worse this year. Also, unlike Crennel, he is letting the rookies learn on the go.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 21, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here are the 2008 Browns points scored from weeks 4 – 10. 20, 35, 11, 23, 27, 30, 29. This is with Braylon dropping the ball against half the time.The last 6 games the offense sucked as Braylon went totally into the tank (against the Texans he just gave up), and then it was Dorsey and Gradkowski as QB.
Before Quinn and DA went down the offense was average at best, but much better than the puke-fest of passing offense this year, with a healthy DA or Quinn. If 2 quarterbacks regress as far as these guys have regressed (and it has been really, really far) is it all just the players fault? What do the coaches do anyway?
by oxforddave on Oct 22, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe other players fell off, including the right side of our line, our other receivers, and especially our run game
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not having Winslow this year was a big loss because he kept the defense from focusing all of their attention on Braylon. Our lack of playmakers at receiver really hurt our offense this year. That’s the big difference from last year.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One question for both of you. How much of the performance of the offense is a result of coaching? 50%, 0%, 100%?
by oxforddave on Oct 22, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems arbitrary to assign a percentage. A good coordinator can make up for a lack of talent, but otherwise to be successful they need talent in place, first. The playcalling has not been impressive, but frankly our lack of success on offense is not surprising given what they have to work with. I don’t think there is one above-average offensive playmaker on the team at this point.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 22, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe 25%
any NFL coach can draw up plays. They know what they’re doing, thats how they got here. If the players don’t execute the coach can’t do much about it.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A good chunk.
We have some WRs who are at least solid players in Massaquoi, Stuckey, Furrey, and probably Robiskie. We have a guy who everyone fears in Josh Cribbs. We have a speedy back in Jerome Harrison. We have a Tight End who is a solid receiver in Steve Heiden.
None of those guys is typically a game breaker on offense, but all can contribute to an offense that at least moves the ball.
Our playbook is awful, and our play calling is pretty bad, too. Not even talented players like BE and K2 can thrive in an offense that undermines them from the start.
by rufio on Oct 22, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think you vastly over-estimate the abilities of our players
by notthatnoise on Oct 23, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this article is terrible. It seems like a bad fanPost. Its based on false stories (the mural, the water bottle fine) and uses completely ridiculous arguments like “he was a belichick coach so he must be bad.” Josh McDaniels was a belichick coach, how is that working out? also in what way is Mangini similar to Crennel?
to top it all off though, Mangini was very successful in NY. He took them to the playoffs his first season, and the season where the “team fell apart” was really the season Brett Favre’s arm fell off.
There are other points to attack in this article, but i think we’ve been over this enough
by notthatnoise on Oct 21, 2009 6:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The mural story is actually true; he goes in to more detail about it in another post (which I linked to in the post above). He tore down the mural, and then when people complained he claimed to be moving it to the front entrance so “fans can see it” (which doesn’t make any sense since fans don’t go to the team facilities in Berea).
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 21, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there aren’t any more details at the link above, its the same story this guy posted. also, he didn’t say so fans could see it, he said more people. there are people that work at the facilities in berea who aren’t players.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can see inside the facility’s lobby from the street, too—at least, if I remember correctly from when I used to live in Berea. Not that many people drive down that street, but it is probably seen more than any part of the complex except the practice fields.
by rufio on Oct 22, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you check the link? If you look at the comments, you would see that I posted a link to another blog post by Posnanski where he goes in to more detail about the mural. I can’t link to it directly now because his website is blocked at my school, but if you click on the link to the previous story then it takes you to a post called “Mangini and the mural”. He goes in to more detail about it, and it doesn’t make Mangini look good.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 7:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fairness, Posnanski is still speculating some in his follow-up piece.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 22, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don’t think you checked the link. it takes you to this story, titled “Fettucini, Linguini, Martini, Mangini”
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nevermind, found your link in the comments, i thought you meant the main link.
also, I saw where you posted this guys credentials, and i don’t care, he has no credibility as far ass i’m concerned. He never cites sources, and he intentionally mislead readers. Saying something like “they tore down a mural” is not leaving anything open to speculation, as he says, it intentionally implies its not going back up. he also used the water bottle fine in the original piece, as well as saying everyone in new york disliked mangini, both of which are proven false stories.
He also uses the “he’s just like romeo because he’s from new england” attack, which to me means he has no football knowledge.
He knows less about the browns than I do, and i don’t have media credentials or connections. maybe he should stick to writing about the chiefs.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geez, relax. He’s a very well-regarded writer and I’m sure he did his research about the piece (talking to a writer from Akron). I don’t agree with his premise that Mangini was a terrible hire, but I know he’s a trustworthy writer and I think he’s right about the mural. I don’t believe the “we were moving it to the front of the building” story, I think they just said that after people made a big fuss. I guess we’ll see if it ever appears again.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
look, i just spelled out for you why he has no browns credibility. maybe he’s great with the chiefs. i’m just saying i know more about these stories than he did when he posted this, so if he wants to post about the browns, i won’t be taking him seriously.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right, he’s not a Browns expert. He never claimed to be. But that doesn’t mean he can’t write about them. He grew up in Cleveland as a Browns and Indians fan and he still cares about those teams. He’s not just a KC writer, he writes about players and teams from all over the country (and he’s now a full-time writer for SI). He writes mostly about baseball, actually, and he’s really, really good at it.
Like I said, it’s fine to disagree with the premise of this post, but that doesn’t mean he’s wrong about the mural story. How do you know that you know more about the story that he does? He got his information from Patrick McManoman at the ABJ, who I’m sure knows more than you or I do.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fine, i’ll give him the mural story. but even still, the rest of the post is full of misinformation (water bottle, all jets players hate mangini, all bellichick deciples are the same, and they’re bad coaches) so until you can explain all of that, i’ll continue to think he’s a hack. He can write about the browns all he wants, but he doesn’t have any info thats not available to fans (he actually seems to have less). Most of the people on this website could have written a better blog post than this. And thats all it was, a fan blog. A bad one.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if you want to base your entire opinion on him based on one post he wrote on his blog which you don’t agree with then that’s up to you.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’ll say the same thing about him that i said about quinn: I gave him a chance and he showed me absolutely nothing, so i’m not going to hope for much better in the future.
seriously though, please defend this post. good writers don’t write stuff like this.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my point is this, when a site like espn or a writer like peter king says this stuff, most people on this board respond that they don’t know what they’re talking about, why should this guy be any different?
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You didn’t “give him a chance” — you read one blog post where he crticized your favorite team and you didn’t like it, so you called him a hack. That’s like watching Quinn throw one pass and giving up on him after that. He’s allowed to give his opinion — it may be wrong, but he’s allowed to think that. He’s right about many (not all) people in New York bashing Mangini when he left, he’s right about him tearing down the mural (as far as we know), he’s right about Belichick’s former defensive coordinator not working out very well here the last time. Again, I don’t agree with his premise but it’s not like he’s just making things up. Just because you disagree with someone doesn’t make him a hack.
And you can’t compare him to Peter King, who’s an NFL writer with inside information who you expect to be more informed. This guy writes about all sports and all teams across the country, so of course he’s not going to be as up-to-date with every detail that Browns writers are, but that doesn’t mean he’s not allowed to give his opinion.
He’s not just a good writer, he’s a great writer. He’s one of the most well-respected sportswriters in the country. And he’s great at writing about baseball — unlike most sportswriter with their heads in the sand, he actually uses the advanced metrics which most intelligent fans use. If you actually cared to know about his work (and I’m guessing you don’t from the tone of your comments) then you should read some of his blog posts and see why he’s so well-regarded. Or you could keep calling him names because you don’t like this one post.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
many people bashed mangini, not many players or front office execs. he’s not right about the mural as far as we know, we simply don’t know about the mural. Just because each filled the same position doesn’t mean they are similar coaches at all, why would that be a reason it was a bad hire? He’s not making things up, but he’s not using accurate information.
he shouldn’t post such strong opinions based on knowledge that is out of date, thats bad journalism.
I don’t care if he writes about baseball well, this is football, and this post was a fairly good indication he can’t write about football.
this is an outdated article however, and i’m not sure when all the information became public and well known, so maybe at the time of the writing this article makes sense, MAYBE, but now it just looks stupid.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and maybe it is like giving up after one pass, but if your quarterback spun in circles then threw the ball underhanded straight up in the air, you would give up too.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it’s one month old, which is why I don’t know why we’re discussing it now.
I love how you rant and rave about the guy and what a terrible writer he is, then admit since it was written a month ago that it makes sense at the time. That’s real classy.
He’s a great writer, about baseball or football or basketball or tennis or golf or anything else. If you actually cared to find out then you would read more than one blog post a month after it was written.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i said it was MAYBE justified, it was even capitalized in that post too. I’m pretty sure all of this info was available at the time this article was written though, and even if it wasn’t, he did a crack job verifying his stories didn’t he? I’m not giving him a pass for this article, regardless of his previous record. its a trash article, and you haven’t been arguing that, you’ve been arguing he has good credentials. All i’m saying is i don’t care about his previous achievements, this article is absolute garbage.
I have a very different opinion of this author than you do, and i don’t see this being resolved any time soon, so this needs to end. In the interest of fairness I’ll give you the last word, and i promise i’ll read whatever you post as a reply, but after this we need to be done with this. its gotten a little out of hand i think.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re probably right. I just think you shouldn’t be so harsh on a guy based on one article you didn’t like, especially when he’s such a well-respected writer.
Also, if you want to see what kind of football writer he is, check out this week’s SI. He has a wonderful article about Joe Paterno.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s an online version of that Joe Paterno article from SI.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I’m still not quite sure why you think this blog post is “absolute garbage”. As I said, I disagree with his basic premise that Mangini was a terrible hire, but that doesn’t make it garbage. Sure, he might have been wrong about the water bottle fine, but he was just going on the information he had. And it’s not like an magazine or newspaper article where he’s going to do hours of research — this is just a post on his blog stating his opinion. I honestly don’t see what’s gotten you so upset and why you’re trashing him so much for it.
And, again, he did do research about the mural story and wrote further about that. I don’t really know what you can question about that story.
Who knows — maybe he’s right. Maybe Mangini will do a terrible job in Cleveland. I certainly hope not, but it’s not like he’s given us a reason to think we’re heading to the playoffs any time soon.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thought it was a poor effort overall.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 23, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can agree with calling it a “poor effort.” Calling it “garbage” is a huge exaggeration.
If this is garbage then what do you call the dredgery put forth daily by the likes of Livingston and Shaw, not to mention a hundred or so other terrible sportswriters in this country. And those guys write their crap in newspaper articles, which should be held to a much higher standard than a blog post.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 23, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The PD writers you mentioned are worthy of the label, garbage.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 23, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t want to go into this again, but the water bottle fine is not “proven false.” Mangini essentially admitted to it.
by Chemo on Oct 22, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, Mangini said that the fine was for a number of various incidents not directly one water bottle incident. Abe Elam confirmed that there was not a fine for a bottle of water.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 22, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
saying the player was fined for that one water bottle is like saying pacman jones was suspended for one incident
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that Chemo’s point is this:
Media outlet A (Mort) says that the fines were not just for a water bottle.
Media outlet B (Yahoo) says that the fines were for taking a water bottle.
With so many different stories we will have no idea what is correct. Personally, I no longer care about the fines or murals.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 22, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I no longer care about the fines or murals.
Seconded!
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 22, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ignoring lies doesn’t make them go away. i’ll let the mural thing go, there doesn’t seem to be a consensus there, but a player verified the fine wasn’t just for a water bottle. That makes that story false.
Its important to call this out because people are using this story to form uninformed opinions, and i would rather everybody get it right the first time, so i don’t have to hear people calling for mangini to be fired and citing this as a reason. Maybe there are other reasons, but i don’t want to hear this one anymore
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to put it more shortly, letting this go is like letting mooncamping’s ideas go unchallenged.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there doesn’t seem to be a consensus there, but a player verified the fine wasn’t just for a water bottle. That makes that story false.
Was it Abe Elam or Braylon Edwards? Because Mort said that the grievances against Mangini were filed by Edwards, and one was filed by the person who was fined for the bottle of water. Then we hear it was Abe Elam, yet he himself it wasn’t him who was fined. So, once again, who was it?
I am not ignoring lies, I just think that there are reasons to not like what Mangini has done, but this should be waaaay down the list. The James Davis injury situation is 100x more important than this. The Browns offensive issues are 10000x more important than that. If Browns fans are going to be pissed off, be pissed about something that is relevant.
I thought the situation did merit discussion at the time, but that was a month ago. Who cares what player gave $1,700.00 to the human fund?
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 22, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i can’t very well rec bernie19 for a mention, and then not rec this actual donation card. well done…1 point for brad.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 23, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree it doesn’t merit discussion, but someone else brought it up, not me. and they brought it up believing it was true, which it isn’t.
i don’t know who was fined, and i don’t care, but Elam said it it was for repeat offenses, whoever it was. therefor, it was not a $1,700 fine for a water bottle, and the story is wrong.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Appreciate your dedication to truth here and your desire not see Mangini tarred with falsehoods. To me it just seems like so much water under the bridge at this point, and after a couple of dozen inconclusive who-said-what-to-whom-via-what-source arguments over it, I’m past caring myself….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 23, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I just have a problem with people presenting things as absolute truth when they are conjecture at best and completely made up at worst,
by notthatnoise on Oct 24, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You want bad? I present you with the nomination of Nick Skorich (ok, prior to last 25 yrs).
by elsandito on Oct 21, 2009 7:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
in other breaking news, we landed on the moon…
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 21, 2009 7:51 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I don’t know why we’re talking about this again. I mentioned above that we already discussed it and provided the link. I would have closed the comments were I authorized to do that; maybe Chris can do that whenever he sees this.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 21, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Had to rec this… my sentiments exactly. A lot of work on this post but it just emphasizes the bad and ignores the good. I won’t say that coach Mangini hasn’t made mistakes but there are some things to like. The team he inherited was a basket case. It is going to take time to fix a team so lacking in discipline and with so many holes in skill level. Let’s give the guy a chance.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 22, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone in New York hated him.. except the guys who willingly signed with Cleveland, and guys like Leon Washington who was quoted as saying “They (Cleveland) got a really good coach”. There was actually a lot of uproar from the players when Mangini was fired- but who cares about that now, he’s a Brown…..
by L Train on Oct 21, 2009 8:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We will see, time will tell. I am a Quinn guy so my bias leans there. That being said he has done a horrible job with the QB’s.
There is no question the Browns will draft a QB or sign one as a FA
by Grockcubs on Oct 21, 2009 10:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
when you typed “he did a horrible job with the QB’s” i think you meant “the browns have terrible QB’s”
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily. I still, IMO, do not know what Quinn can do, thats just me.
by Grockcubs on Oct 22, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think we know plenty about quinn, but as you said, thats an opinion, so we’ll just have to agree to disagree
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least mangini hasn’t donned a roethlisberger jersey in public because he “wanted to feel like a winner” ;)
by emily522 on Oct 22, 2009 12:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought what Jeff Fisher did was very funny. If Titans fans can’t laugh at that then they need to lighten up.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the situation that Fisher has right now, if he doesn’t laugh… what will he do? That has to be miserable.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 22, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it may have gone over better if his team didn’t just lose 59-0…
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 22, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i personally think it was funny too, and i don’t think it should be a big deal. That said, how would we react if mangini threw on a steelers jersey to “feel like a winner?”
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fact he would lose any amount of support I had for him if he did that.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 22, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly, so i can understand why the titans fans are pissed.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But do Titans fans feel about the Colts the way Browns fans feel about the Steelers? I’m not really sure. Are they a hated rival?
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think the titans see the colts as a rival but not the other way around.
by emily522 on Oct 22, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Manning is loved in Tenneesse because he played college football there. So even though he’s a Colt I’m sure most Titans fans still like him.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So in other words, just like the Steelers and Browns right now.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 22, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the answer to your question is no. the titans/colts is not a “hate” situation.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 22, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i honestly wouldn’t care that much. he can wear and say and do whatever he wants…i just want him to win on the field.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 22, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference is Fisher IS a winner. He’s been 13-3. He’s won division and conference titles. THAT is why its funny.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 23, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He should have wore a Drew Brees jersey. Or Kyle Orton. Anyone outside the division.
by rufio on Oct 23, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
while on the surface that makes sense, but he was at a charity event with/for Tony Dungy. None of those QBs played for Dungy.
by talonk on Oct 23, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he was in Tennessee, where Manning went to college and is still universally loved. That would be like putting on an Archie Griffin jersey in Ohio.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 23, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A couple of news outlets have features on the new coaching hires this year. Most of the new coaches could have posts like this one written about them. Relatively few seem to be garnering a lot of favor with the press and fans. This makes for interesting discussion… typically when you get a new coach it is because your team has been bad for a number of seasons. So isn’t it more typical that a team will look pretty bad when a new coach comes in? Aren’t McDaniels (Son of Hoodie), Singletary, and Caldwell the exceptions? Of these three that are enjoying pretty obvious success, Caldwell inherited an elite team and Singletary really had most of last season to work his “culture change” on the 49ers. Only McDaniels seems to have made a true impact. Here is one of the articles…
Coach Performance Rating as of Week 5
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 22, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
very good points. also, McDaniels inherited a consistent winner, not the browns
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could make a case for the opposite. 3 new head coaches made the playoffs in 2006 & 2007. 3 out of 4 new coaches last year went to the playoffs also. I’m not saying that it is easy, but it seems to happen more than I thought.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 22, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you may be right, but i do think its important to look at the situation that coach comes into. Some of those coaches may have come into much better situations than mangini did here.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By no means am I saying that this was the cush job in the NFL.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 22, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh i’m not disagreeing with you, i think you made a good point too, plenty of first year coaches do have success, sometimes with as poor a situation as mangini walked into. i’m just saying we should remember where this team is coming from when we evaluate our head coach.
by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe in Mangini for the most part. The fines I am 100% behind him. If a guy steals a, at a game $6.50, bottle of water, that makes the organization look horrible. i would have fined him $5,000. Crennel never disciplined any of these guys. All they did was show up every day. Yea we had a good 2007 but we made the playoffs in 2003. One season doesn’t justify any coach. I’m not suprised about our defensive play either. I mean they are playing pretty awesome, but thats what should be happening with a defensive minded coaching staff. I would like them to go after a new offensive coordinater with a little creativity. I’m not a guy that prefers to see him run up the middle with harrison then sweep it with lewis. I also know Quinn can throw the ball farther than 5 yards. Anderson obviously can’t throw the ball to a guy within 5 yards. Mangini screwed Quinn thats my only disagreement with Mangini. I will give him 2 years after this one. Let him have his draft and a year with them.
by The naome40 on Oct 22, 2009 10:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I also know Quinn can throw the ball farther than 5 yards.
well, i believe that settles it…
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 22, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also think we all are forgetting about Butch Davis!!
by The naome40 on Oct 22, 2009 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't Bring Up That Name
Very revealing that Butch has not been back in the NFL.
by Pruitt on Oct 23, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and his boys choked last nite against Fla St ….
by talonk on Oct 23, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, he’s a college coach. Just like Spurrier and Petrino and Carroll and many other failed NFL coaches.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 23, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is building well at UNC, and that’s coming from a Duke fan.
by rufio on Oct 24, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’s also the only browns coach to go to the playoffs in the last 10 years
by notthatnoise on Oct 24, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he drafted Pontibrand!
Championship!
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 24, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
considering how our other coaches have done, I’d say that’s pretty damn impressive.
To clarify, I most certainly do not think Butch Davis was a good coach, but before we write him off as the worst, we should remember he did take us to the playoffs.
by notthatnoise on Oct 25, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 2007 team was better in my eyes than the 2002 playoff team. It was circumstance that the 02 team got in.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 25, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but one team made the playoffs and the other didn’t
Although I do think the ’07 team was probably better than the ’02 team
by notthatnoise on Oct 26, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was circumstantial, the 2007 team had more wins and was a fluke or two away from another 2 wins (see Raiders and Cardinals games.)
by Roger Dorn on Oct 26, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because a team made the playoffs doesn’t necessarily mean that it was better than another team which did not. Especially when you are comparing teams from different seasons with different competition for playoff spots.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 26, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think my initial comment got taken a bit too seriously, i am in no way pining for the days of butch davis.
An interesting point though, people were quick to dismiss 2007 as unsuccessful because we didn’t make the playoffs, by that logic, 2002 has to be seen as at least a moderate success.
by notthatnoise on Oct 26, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to think the 07 Browns were both the beneficiary of an extraordinarily easy schedule, but also the victim of bad luck. The Arizona game stands out in my mind. Anderson was atrocious down the stretch.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 26, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the backs of William Green, Kelly Holcomb, and a great defensive goaline stand against Atlanta.
by The naome40 on Oct 27, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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