Bradford Shoulder Injury - Brownie Opportunity?

by realmccoy on Oct 21, 2009 7:48 PM EDT

As a diehard Browns fan - I am just Jonesing for this team to have some success. As a rabid Texas Longhorn fan - I have seen the answer. Now Longhorn fans hate the OU Sooners about as much the Browns hate Pittsburgh, so take that into account when I tell you that Sam Bradford is the MAN. Think Tom Brady without the model baby mama. Believe it or not - I do not think we have a great chance at the first overall pick. I truly think St. Louis, KC, TB et al have us beat. Therefore, my bedtime prayers include the following:

Sam Bradford comes out in the 2010 draft.
He slides to the Browns at number 4/5 ish
His shoulder is fine, proving all GMs fools.
He is the legit franchise QB.
He starts dating Megan Fox ( or is she a veggie) and brings her to the Cleveland home games.

Lets get the season over with and head to the 2010 draft. While Mangini has been a trainwreck - I do think he has done a nice job of acquiring some picks to make April much more interesting than December.

This is a fan-created post. Dawgs By Nature assumes no responsibility for the content listed.

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i think after this latest injury he’s a lock to be available at 4/5

also, i’m tired of people saying mangini has been awful. I’m not saying you have to like everything he’s done, but calling him a train wreck implies its obvious that he’s been terrible, while i would argue he’s done a good job.

by notthatnoise on Oct 21, 2009 9:13 PM EDT reply actions

Just the facts dude

We are 1-5. The offense if unwatchable. He had done a nice job adding picks. If we blow the picks it would cancel out those moves. 2nd round looks very suspect to me – but need to hold opinion for fair eval.

by realmccoy on Oct 22, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions

thats fair enough, i’m just saying you can’t say its certain he’s done a poor job when there is a valid argument to be made in favor of most of his decisions so far. You’re right that its too early to tell for sure though.

by notthatnoise on Oct 23, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Here is a intresting list of the so called “Super 30 NFL prospects” from Wes Bunting.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;ylt=AuxEPgVFmjDGf3_neZ46U5DubYF?slug=ys-nfpsuper30102109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Still think there is tooooo many holes in this team to worry about drafting a QB in the first round IMO D- line ,CB, big play WR or RB is what I would look at then look for a QB in 2nd or 3rd round that can help with ball controll.

by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 22, 2009 12:41 AM EDT reply actions

I would find it very hard to go after a RB early or even at all. I can see maybe if there is one around 6. With James Davis and Harrison, why go after a big play RB? I even like that Jennings on the practice squad who got some carries against Cincy.

by The naome40 on Oct 28, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m not advocating an RB in Round 1 either, but I think with Davis, we’ve got unproven talent. His injury really messed things up for him.

And Harrison… well he’s good. But he’s not a feature back. And I think Mangini said he can’t pick up blitzes and put the blocks in.

by skipkirk on Oct 31, 2009 5:00 AM EDT up reply actions

I doubt Bradford comes out this year. You’d have to think his stock took a big, big hit after the 2nd shoulder injury. He’s still got time to get that stock back up, but he could have even more time if he stayed in school.

by rufio on Oct 22, 2009 12:44 AM EDT reply actions

i would tend to agree with you, but maybe he looks at the money he’s already lost by not coming out last year and decides e can’t risk it again.

by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions

Playing devil’s advocate here:

If he comes back for next season and gets hurt again, he may not get taken on the first day in 2011. He could just say screw it, get me into the money ASAP.

by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 22, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions

He’s got to get some insurance for that. Lots of players do it.

Also, if he can rehab, show up healthy and in shape, add a few pounds, and throw hard at the combine/workouts, his stock could shoot back up into the top-5. If he is healthy by the combine, he might come out.

by rufio on Oct 23, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions

I thought most players get insurance against career ending injuries. I remember that Willis McGahee had insurance but couldn’t claim the money if he ever played again.

I could be totally wrong though.

by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 23, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions

I think it highly likely that Bradford comes out next year. I think this year will have him shell-shocked. In the end I think he wants to play pro ball. Even if he can get insurance, and I’m not so sure he can given the risk with him having been injured already, is he willing to risk not playing in the NFL at all or going very late in the draft? I still think he’ll stay in the top half of the first round if he comes out next year. His chances of bettering that by waiting a year are probably 50/50.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Oct 23, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions

You can get multiple kinds. I remember someone at OSU getting some insurance against any serious injury, but I forget who it was, exactly when it was, or exactly how it worked so I didn’t bring it up.

by rufio on Oct 24, 2009 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions

exactly why he will enter the draft. He can still be a top 10 pick.

by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 23, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions

I want to see Bradford do something other then throw short passes to his great receiversand let them pick up yards after the catch when he has all day to throw. There are so many holes on this team I would be disappointed if we waste a pick on another overrated QB.

by iwearmocs on Oct 22, 2009 10:38 AM EDT reply actions

The crop “good” Quarterbacks in college will not do good in the NFL. Now by good i mean the mainstream, Headlining QBs. Successful college programs run the “Spread Formation.” this doesn’t work in the NFL. SEC QBs don’t transition well into the NFL. Examples – Jamarcus Russel, Matt Lienhart. Successful NFL QBs are Matt Ryan – Boston College, Joe Flacco – Delaware. Bradford will not be a good fit the NFL, much less a cold weather team.

by holmes213 on Oct 22, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions

Surgery, shoulder surgery…..no thanks……move along Browns fans nothing to see….

by Red-Right-88 on Oct 22, 2009 3:49 PM EDT reply actions

the same surgery Eli manning had correct?

or was that just the first injury? if the second one is different maybe my opinion is too

by notthatnoise on Oct 22, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Didn’t Drew Brees have shoulder surgery before getting to New Orleans?

by rufio on Oct 23, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions

yeah i think it was actually serious enough to keep most teams from giving him a chance, which is why he ended up with lowly NO.

by notthatnoise on Oct 23, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions

Depends on what type of surgery it was.But I don’t like how soft he seems to be.Think I would pass on him.

by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 23, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions

I think KC is a better team than we are.

by Simmsinns on Oct 23, 2009 1:47 PM EDT reply actions

Guess this is as good a place than anywhere for this. I was going to create a post but there are already a bunch of posts that lead to similar discussions so…

I like to watch the show “Football in America” on NBC. This year they added Tony Dungy to their staff and he has a great way of explaining football (which might explain a lot of his success as a coach). This week he did a feature on Quarterbacks attempting to characterize what makes a Starter or Elite QB. He used Matt Ryan as an example. Here is how he broke it down:

Starter Characteristics
Intelligence – Ability to read a defense and find exploitable weakness, pick the hot route, manage the game, deceive the defense. Most of this takes place before the snap.
Poise Under Pressure – Ability to sense pressure, keep eyes down field even when hurried, not to panic.
Accuracy – Ability to put the ball on target where it can give the receiver the best play on the ball (either short or long)

Elite Characteristics
Mobility – Ability to use his legs to buy time in or out of the pocket.
Arm Strength – As this gets better the field gets longer and the vertical game becomes more of a threat.
Touch – Ability to either loft the ball over a defender’s head on the run or drill it 15 yards between defenders as the situation demands.

I think it is interesting how he divided these up as if to say you need the first three to even have a chance in the NFL. Add one or more of the next three and you could achieve greatness and really make an impact for your team.
It is also interesting to take those characteristics and attempt to rank our QBs against them…

Intelligence – it doesn’t seem that either of our QBs have exhibited this so far this year. Though Quinn seems to have an edge here based on what you hear from pundits, I can’t say that I’ve seen a lot of evidence for it. Can this one be taught or is it in-born? I’d say Anderson has made progress in this area since he first started but in the last 18 months I’m not too sure.
Poise Under Pressure – Quinn seemed better at this last year than this year. Anderson has exhibited more poise this year.
Accuracy – This is a tough one as we haven’t seen a lot of Quinn… I don’t think he has played enough to develop communication with his receivers and learn where they are supposed to be. I think this is an area which we can mark with a big ? for Quinn. Anderson doesn’t put the ball in the exact ideal place but we have seen a lot of balls bounce off of hands, knees and chests this year. Do you think interceptions by Anderson have been the result of inaccuracy or just plain bad decisions?

Mobility – I’d give the nod to Quinn here but I’m not so sure that Quinn knows when to be mobile. He doesn’t use mobility to buy him time at this point. I think this is another thing that will end up improving with experience. For Anderson, he uses small movement to buy time but he isn’t going to streak around the end for big yards like Quinn might.
Arm Strength – Quinn is thought to be weaker here though some might argue this. I’d put it more like Anderson has the stronger arm and leave it at that. The question instead may be: is Quinn’s arm strong enough to make all the throws?
Touch – Anderson used to be terrible at this but there has been some improvement. Quinn exhibits good touch as much as we’ve seen but again, more play for Quinn could end up showing more of a difference here.

So I’m interested in other’s opinions here. The other side of this whole thing might be looking at potential QB draft picks next year in this light… though I’d have no idea having only seen highlights of most of them. Bradford seems to be accurate, poised, mobile… not sure about the rest. Maybe others can fill in here. I thought this was an interesting way to look at QBs.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Oct 23, 2009 4:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

very interesting post, lots of food for thought. It is extremely long though, you were probably right to think it should have been a Fan Post

by notthatnoise on Oct 23, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Good post.

Like I’ve said before, I don’t think its productive to compare DA and Quinn anymore.

The question isn’t which has better accuracy or intelligence or poise, it’s if either have these qualities to qualify as a starting or elite (hehe) NFL QB.

In this light, I think you’ve been a little kind to our guys. Quinn has the intelligence, maybe and reportedly, but he had no poise whatsoever this year. Until that comes back, nothing else matters. He may have a little mobility and touch, but I’m not convinced of his accuracy or arm strength- and more importantly, I don’t think HE is convinced of these things. Anderson has the arm strength and I think he has a little poise. But I doubt his intelligence and his accuracy and touch are laughable.

Going by your/Dungy’s thought that you have to have the first three as a foundation- I think both these guys just don’t make that basic cut.

by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 24, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree with the general assessment here.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 24, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think HE is convinced of these things.

I really think this too.

by rufio on Oct 24, 2009 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions

I think we keep making the comparisons because this is what we’re stuck with at the moment. (Or maybe it’s like that scab you can’t stop picking at!)

I also think that neither DA nor BQ has given us any reason this year to think we’re not looking for a new QB (or two) come next season. The argument that BQ much more than DA might have capabilities we haven’t seen or developed yet seems reasonable to me, though.

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 24, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions

Agree totally with your second paragraph.

by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 24, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions

I’d much prefer a safety. Eric Berry or Taylor Mays.

by gentryholdem on Oct 23, 2009 6:30 PM EDT reply actions

Can someone explain to me what I’m missing about the safeties here? Pool and Elam certainly aren’t pro-bowlers, but they both seem adequate to me. The safeties we have are average, as far as i can tell, why not focus on a below average part of our team such as running back or quarterback? heck, we could even use a big play WR (Mass has shown me about as much as Pool so far) or better yet a big time pass rusher.

by notthatnoise on Oct 24, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Watch a UT game. UT and Alabama just kicked off BTW.

Eric Berry is an alien. He is ALL over the field. There is nothing that he cannot do on a football field. He can cover WR’s. He can hit with the best of the best. He can rush the passer (As I was typing that, he just creamed the Tide QB.) He is a weapon. If the Browns are going to be running a version of the 46 defense, they need a Safety that can disguise coverages and blitzes. I think that he is a mixture of Antoine Winfield and Ed Reed.

Yes we need players in other positions more than we need a safety, but we need playmakers more than we need anything. I cannot think of another team in the NFL that lacks for playmmakers like we do. Eric Berry would be our best DB from day one, and I like Wright.

You don’t pass up freak alien type players.

As for Taylor Mays, you can have him. All the size and speed but I don’t think he has very good instincts. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.

by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 24, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree with this, but wouldn’t a playmaker at QB or running back or WR be more valuable than a playmaking safety? maybe a safety helps for a 46, but we done run it that often. the positions i listed help you in your base offense, which you run a lot.

I can’t name any player in particular, i don’t watch enough college football, but there’s someone out there every year. My question is why safety over any other position?

by notthatnoise on Oct 24, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions

It isn’t safety over every position, it is Eric Berry over every other player.

As of right now, Eric Berry is the only player who I watch and say “WOW” at least once a game. Not to sound “old school” but Eric Berry is a “football player”. I think he would be successful no matter what position he plays.

by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 24, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions

ok that answers my question. If he’s the best player in the draft, then i’ll get on that bandwagon.

by notthatnoise on Oct 26, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions

Wow! I didnt see you write that before my post.

Great minds think alike I guess.

by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 26, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Its not a matter of safety over every position, it is a matter of Berry over the other players.

And watch Ed Reed and tell me if you think he only helps the defense in ‘certain packages’

by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 26, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions

my point about the 46 was that it was cited as a reason to draft him, and i don’t think a player being well suited for a particular package is a good reason to draft him.

by notthatnoise on Oct 27, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions

He is well suited for every package

by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 27, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m not trying to argue against that. But the OP was that if we were going to be running the 46 we needed the right safety for it. My opinion is that we run it so little that this was not really a good argument. I made no judgement on the player’s talent at all.

Like i said before, if Berry is the best player in the draft, then i will be 100% behind drafting him.

by notthatnoise on Oct 28, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions

The Browns are no where near the point where you start targeting specific positions in the draft. Right now, Berry looks like the best player available no matter where we pick. The trick will be moving down enough in the draft (to pick five or six (were the draft held today, he wouldn’t slide out of the top ten) to still be able to grab him, yet not have to pay him like a top three pick.

by golanbatrac on Oct 24, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions

^ parenthetical fail.

by golanbatrac on Oct 24, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions

i agree it should be best player available, i just thought their were better players than berry. if you think he’s the best player in college football, thats fine by me.

by notthatnoise on Oct 24, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions

I really do think Berry is the best player in the nation. Position should factor in, but so should talent.

If you could be sure the QB you chose turned out to be a pro bowler, you take the QB over the S no problem. The thing is that so many people think Berry is such a sure bet and is such a freak at his position that he is more worth the risk of a top-5 pick.

He is a very, very good player without question. I don’t like Mays anywhere close to as much.

by rufio on Oct 24, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Agree on Berry being the “sure pick” available 4-7. If we’re going to take a QB it should be Locker.

by gentryholdem on Oct 25, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions

Look at the contracts of both our safeties.

by Roger Dorn on Oct 25, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions

Mays or Berry would make our D closer to PITT and BAL, but Bradford would be just as welcome in my book. The guy threw what…90 TDs and 9000 yds in two seasons? Think about that Browns fans. NINETY touchdowns and NINE THOUSAND yards in 25 or so games. Why was this guy still at OU this year? No way he would NOT have been a pro if Tressell was his coach.

by Just1BannerPlz on Oct 25, 2009 11:10 AM EDT reply actions

Graham Harrell threw for a lot of yards and TDs in college, what is he up to now?

by Roger Dorn on Oct 25, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions

That means nothing at all look at the QB that came out of Hawaii 2 yrs ago were is he at again?

by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 26, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions

There have been hundreds of quarterbacks who put up big stats in college and failed in the NFL. Putting up big stats in college doesn’t mean a QB will be successful at the next level — it’s a completely different game.

And what does Jim Tressel have to do with anything?

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 26, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions

the tressel thing refers to the fact that jim tressel encourages players to leave early for the draft if they’re ready

by notthatnoise on Oct 26, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions

OK, that statement was confusing. I thought he was implying that Bradford wouldn’t be a pro prospect if he played for Tressel.

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 26, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Buckeye Brad you are right

Do not draft Bradford, or any other quarterback in next year draft for the Cleveland Browns. The Browns need a playmaker Free Safety and Sack machine Defensive End on defense in the first 2 rounds of the draft. Go after a RB, TE, sure handed receiver to catch in he slot like a Brandon Brennan. I seem this guy Buckeye Brad know his football pretty well as far as making comments of our Beloved Browns football team. Drafting a quaterback first round again, would ultimately tear this QB’s phsyche completely down. He would not last on the field or with the media in Cleveland. A lot of Cleveland’s fan base still live in the past and it’s glory days of Jim Brown, Bernie Kosar and the Dawg Pound or the Kardiac Kids. The Steel plants and automobile plants are closed folks, this is 2009 almost 2010, people use computers now for technology. This coach Mangini is going build the team in his fashion. Like it or not, get ready for the bumpy ride it gets worse.

by Hurricane$$ on Oct 26, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions

Well I hope they get a beast of a RB with are first pick and then pick D in the next few rounds.Are ground game sucks and there might not be anything in FA back wise.Getting a QB now is not the way togo there is nothing on this team that woudl help him along.We need a old QB like a Kitna to teach a young QB what to do or what to look for.As of now we have never had that and are young QB’s have hurt because of it.

D would be a good way to go as well.A big ILB or a shut down CB would be ood as well.Hell I would not say anythign if they used the first 5-6 picks on D as long as they are parts we need.

by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 28, 2009 6:38 AM EDT up reply actions