Browns fans plan late arrival for MNF *UPDATED*
If your getting to the Ravens Browns game early, you could be veeerrryyy lonley.
*UPDATE* I switched the link to a better article that goes more in depth.
3 months ago
Bernie19Kosar
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Alright! This will turn the team around for sure!!
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 29, 2009 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hahaha, “We are tired of losing.” So we decide to not go to our seats early! That’ll show them. Because we all know, if you can prove your point to them, then we’ll start winning.
Wow, how asinine. We’re all tired of losing, but what the hell can come of this, seriously?
by Simmsinns on Oct 29, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope Cribbs returns one for a TD while all of these morons are huddled up in the restroom.
by golanbatrac on Oct 30, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think the protest is a great idea. It’s not sacrilegious for fans to convey their displeasure with the organization. Sure, there won’t be any immediate impact on the team’s performance, but it’s a reminder that the fanbase is sick and tired of wasting its time and money on an organization that is perpetually inept.
I think we all deserve a winning franchise, and, frankly, an organization that builds a team that is possibly worse than the ’99 expansion teams probably deserves to be protested.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they’ve had seven games. you can’t hold them responsible for the previous decade of suckitude
by notthatnoise on Oct 30, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a protest against a decade of futility. It doesn’t matter if it’s a new coach or old.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And what will protesting do? Voice your displeasure?
Because nobody knows that the fans want a winning team, I think we need to tell someone that we actually want a good team that wins games. This would be a great way to get that done. Clearly, it is communication from fans to owner that needs to be improved.
by rufio on Oct 30, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And what will protesting do? Voice your displeasure?
Um. Yeah. Exactly. I think there’s room for the door to swing both ways: something good happens, you lend your support; something bad, for the better part of ten years running, yeah, you speak up.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s true. we do indeed need to clarify the ongoing mystery as to whether or not browns fans are satisfied with the 55-113 record (or whatever it is) that the organization has amassed over the last decade…
excellent point.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 30, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You aren’t happy with sniffing the playoffs once every 5 years? Really? I totally thought that’s what made us a great franchise.
Wow, Lerner should totally hire you to make decisions. Then, you could just choose to win every week, and we’d be set.
by rufio on Oct 30, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m saying I think it is perfectly reasonable for the fans to have an outlet to convey their frustration. If everything is just an exercise in futility, then what difference is there in even being a fan or not?
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whats the point of this though? what change are they trying to bring about? This protest implies the organization isn’t trying to win, and if you honestly believe that, you need to get checked out.
Everyone is frustrated, but this protest is an exercise in futility.
by notthatnoise on Oct 30, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone is frustrated, but this protest is an exercise infutilitystupidity.
by golanbatrac on Oct 30, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree, Western Reserve. Good rational comments, and even if someone disagrees with the protest, there’s no way they can say you didn’t represent a thoughtful case for it.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Oct 31, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Expression is its own point.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Oct 31, 2009 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If people want to miss the kickoff to show Lerner that they aren’t pleased, then by all means don’t show up for the kickoff.
Yes it probably won’t do much, but it will give some suffering fans a feeling that they matter. That may be more important to them than anything.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 30, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That is a good point. I hear about people trying to protest the Browns. maybe if it is actually done they will feel a sense of accompishment and move on. Start cheering again.
by holmes213 on Oct 30, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is actually a good point, maybe they just need to vent a little, whether they expect any substantial change or not
by notthatnoise on Oct 30, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with notthatnoise… it’s a very good points.
by emily522 on Oct 30, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t have any issue with this. As season ticket holders spending thousands of dollars, they have all the right in the world.
Goodness for 10 freaking years, nothing but a damn mess, good for them.
by Grockcubs on Oct 31, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For an actually Browns organization to be promoting this, I’m surprised.
Why are some Browns fans completely stupid?
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 29, 2009 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you’re misreading the term “Browns backers”. It’s not the Browns Backers club, promoted by the organization; the AP release just used the term “backers” instead of “fans”.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Oct 29, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, I thought it was odd and very disrespectful.
But the point still remains. Dumb fans are far too impatient.
New coach does not equal a playoff season the first year! Why don’t they get that??
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 29, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
New coach does not equal a playoff season the first year! Why don’t they get that??
Agreed. But a new coach should equal some sort of improvement.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 29, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not when they are starting off with an already dismantled team
by siejecy on Oct 30, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t agree. This team looks like the same team from the final weeks of last season. We should have seen improvment of SOME kind by now.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 30, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
arriving late? that wouldn’t even send a message. the tickets are still paid for. why go to the game at all?
by emily522 on Oct 29, 2009 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying it’s a good idea, it’s a smart idea, or that it even makes one iota of sense. however, if it’s making national news 2 1/2 weeks before the contest and gains even a little bit of steam, it likely won’t go ignored by the national media before, during, and after the game. So it creates bad PR.
Will that bad PR initiate change? No. But I guess it gives the voiceless a bit of a voice.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Oct 29, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nor will bad PR create a winning franchise.
by Simmsinns on Oct 29, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right. how could MORE bad PR for t his team have any kind of positive impact. this is such a ridiculous idea, its painful. what message is being sent. if we show up late, then lerner will do something. what’s he going to do? fire mangini? that would help, nothing creates a winner like turmoil.
by Dawg Nuts on Oct 30, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good PR will come when the team starts winning.
Look at Denver. That situation was bad before the season, now it is all roses.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 30, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s all about winning. always.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 30, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with rolub, that it would cause some talk. there is already national coverage over Quinn’s contract and the money. But, I think there will be nothing about this display for change. how can you organize that many people to do that?
alot of people pay money which the don’t neccessarily have just to go to a game, a Monday Night game at that. I am all for showing the displeasure, but the opening kick off is one of the most exciting parts of the game.
I do believe that it would make a point to have silence in the stadium on a nationally televised game.
by holmes213 on Oct 30, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question I have is what are we protesting? The team stinks, fine, but what sort of change are the protesters specifically looking for? That needs to be clear to the receiving party before engaging in the protest. Simply saying we want a winner does nothing.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 29, 2009 5:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope that they’re protesting our lack of cheerleaders.
by golanbatrac on Oct 29, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Providing something else to look at during the games besides the carnage on the field might actually improve the experience!
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 30, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope that they’re protesting our lack of cheerleaders.
This made me laugh. /rec
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 30, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question I have is what are we protesting?
frustration.
how many years has it been since cleveland has won a title? i’ve lost count. among cleveland’s sports woes: indians blew it in 2007 against the red sox. the cavs were swept against the spurs. the browns go 10-6 in 2007, but they miss the playoffs. they’ve lost 12 straight against the steelers. the indians were favored to win their division this year, but didn’t even come close. all this talk about lebron leaving cleveland is gearing up again. the browns drafted the hometown hero brady quinn, who was supposed to earn respect back for the browns, and we all know how that worked out so far. (and this has all happened in less than 5 years. btw, sorry i went back and forth from team to team lol.)
the fans are losing patience, and quickly. they expect a turnaround for the team eventually, and each year it doesn’t happen the more frustrating it gets, especially when they see other teams going from 4-12 to playoff contenders in a couple season span. specifically for the browns, they’re sick of: bad draft picks, losing to the steelers, not making the playoffs, getting 4-6 wins each year, and being the joke of the nfl.
while i think the protest is a bit pointless, i’m just looking at it from a different prospective.
by emily522 on Oct 29, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do totally get the frustration, but then again I think everyone involved does as well. As RD says, what do the protesters want the organization to do about it, exactly? I mean, other than be sympathetic….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 30, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah all fine and dandy. Of course they have frustration.
But it just seems dumb it that nothing will be achieved. I’m sure they know what they want (a winning team), but I’m not sure they understand it ain’t easy getting there. 7 games is nothing for a new organisation.
by skipkirk on Oct 30, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I repeated what everyone said above. Just don’t see the point of it all. If we aren’t a joke now, we will be then.
by skipkirk on Oct 30, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, I get the frustration aspect, my only point simply is that if we are going to do some sort of protest, then there should be a very specific change that is expected and that the protesters are looking for. Simply saying we want to win so we are going to stand out in the halls does little to nothing for everyone involved.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 30, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
by emily522 on Oct 30, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, i’m not a protester so i wouldn’t know haha. probably something along the lines of: we’re sick of being the most tortured sports city in the country and tired of disappointing seasons each year.
but that won’t really make a difference, so like i said… i think the protest is pretty pointless.
by emily522 on Oct 30, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly my point. A protest is only useful if you are trying to achieve a specific goal. Otherwise it’s an attention grab and when you have someone who has trademarked his name as Dawgpoundmike with an official website leading the charge, I start to become suspicious of if this isn’t an attention grab.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 30, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think that’s exactly the point, we’ve spent a lot of time and money, we’ve poured our hearts out, we’ve given this franchise all the support it can reasonably expect, now please give us a better product on the field.
i think he has a better idea of what the fans are thinking.
by emily522 on Oct 30, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s something Lerner knows. Its not like he is hogging all the money and won’t spend to make the team a winner; he took a big financial hit to fire Romeo, and he has spent money on free agents when asked.
This is like protesting that the government doesn’t function exactly the way it should; republicans, democrats, fascists, and communists would all agree on that, but protesting because ‘it doesn’t function correctly’ doesn’t mean a damn thing. Democrats would want a public option, republicans would want to to cut taxes, and on down the line.
If there were a specific thing Lerner could do to improve the team like building a new stadium, firing the coach, spending more money, etc. then protesting might actually do something. With the lack of such a specific goal, it is kind of a “well, no sh*$, they want a winner” stituation.
by rufio on Oct 30, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s not just the product on the field, it’s the whole experiance inside the stadium. if you yell too loud & someone complains about it you get ejected.if you protest a bad call you get ejected. if you try to put up a sign you get ejected. they just want to have the experiance to be fun again.dogpound mike & lerner are friends. the winning will come but make the experiance fun again.
by brownie76 on Oct 31, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I were Lerner, I’d give DogPoundMike a pro-rated refund on his season tickets and show him the door.
by golanbatrac on Oct 30, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i.e. The hard-line authoritarian approach to one of Cleveland’s best and most diehard fans.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i.e. a foot in the ass for our biggest diva (now that Edwards is a Jet).
by golanbatrac on Oct 30, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Telling a fan to get lost is the wrong idea.
This would be a Millen-type move.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 30, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Telling a fan to get lost is the wrong idea.
it’s too bad savage didn’t ask you before he sent that email ;)
by emily522 on Oct 30, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that if Savage never would have sent that e-mail, he would still be the GM of this team.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 30, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m not sure that’s true, but that was one big nail in the coffin.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 30, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
adding to the list of examples of horrendous Lerner management
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Oct 31, 2009 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Few powerful people are “nice”, certainly not most who manage an organization, let alone in the middle of a deal (or in sport, game). The email was hilarious, something any fan has said 100 times any Sunday. I was glad to have a GM who “cared.” That a single person is offended by it astounds me.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Nov 1, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s got absolutely nothing to do with being “nice” — and come on, he’s not a fan — and the fact that some people can’t see that actually astounds me. it’s got everything to do with maturity, professionalism, respect for the “customers”, respect for the position of representing the organization publicly, and good judgment. that incident demonstrated that savage scored a 0 on each of those important metrics.
personally, i would have fired him the day after that email. regardless of the football decision, people who treat the customers and their own position of power in such a way can’t work for me.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 1, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t think of another person in football that wouldn’t have done that. literally not one… Parcells, Bellicheck, Coughlin, etc.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Nov 1, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know DogPoundMike, but I know Mobile Dawg, another of the protest organizers. He is one of the most loyal and passionate fans I have ever met. He cares so much about the team and takes everything to do with the Browns extremely personal. He is a great guy and a great fan.
I don’t get this protest, and I don’t wouldn’t participate. But the only thing he cares about is the Browns becoming a better team. To suggest that the Browns would be a better organization or that we would be a better fan base without these guys is just wrong. In fact, it was people like Mobile Dawg (real name Tony) that were at the heart of the effort to keep our team name, history, and colors and to get the Cleveland Browns active again after just a 3 year absence from the league.
Rail against this protest all you want, but let’s lay off the individuals, ok? They aren’t saying quit coming to the stadium, or to hide your Browns pride. They are saying they are disappointed. Maybe it doesn’t make a lot of sense or doesn’t prove much of anything, but it is letting Lerner and the world know that these passionate fans are very hurt by the losing. And then, before the end of the first drive, go back to passionately cheering for the team they love.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 31, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is an article from yahoo: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Browns-fans-to-protest-the-ongoing-Browns-ness-o?urn=nfl,199152
this part is basically what i was trying to say:
“It’s not that it will accomplish anything tangible — it’s not like ownership will see the protest and think to themselves, “Whoa whoa whoa … what’s this? You want us to get better football players? You want us to win games? By golly, that’s a splendid idea! By how many shall we beat the Ravens this evening? Is 35 good for you? Perfect. We’ll do that.”
But that’s not the point. Sometimes, when you’ve been let down, hurt, disappointed and ticked off so many times, you just need to know that you’re being heard. You want someone to acknowledge that yes, they recognize and understand your frustration, and they’re trying to do something about it.
It’s about forming a collective voice, and making sure it’s heard."
by emily522 on Oct 31, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is pretty much my feelings on it.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 31, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
…which will still result in us being a terrible football team.
If this protest is to accomplish “being heard”, then I think it can do that. What exactly being heard will accomplish…I don’t think a whole lot in terms of W-L.
If it is going to make people feel better, then by all means. Really, the only thing that is going to make me feel better is more Ws. A lot more Ws.
by rufio on Oct 31, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you know what they say, rufio. You can wish in one hand and $h!t in the other, see which one gets filled first.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Nov 1, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think that’s exactly the point, we’ve spent a lot of time and money, we’ve poured our hearts out, we’ve given this franchise all the support it can reasonably expect, now please give us a better product on the field.
This is professional football in which gobs of money are being spent, in a league with a fair amount of parity. And yet, we just continue to struggle year in and year out. The least the fans could do is protest the ineptitude of the organization.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to Protest:
- My name I post with here.
- The Drive
- The Fumble
- The Shot
- Jose Mesa…..
You see that is silly. But when protesters have a goal, like Roger Dorn was stating then it makes sense. As in:
Getting our Browns Back after having Model Move them. That worked.
What this does is make us look like a bunch of whiners. I think the rest of the sports nation would say: “Hey Browns fans, your team stinks…suck it up at least you have one.”
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 30, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is pretty much my point and I think the example of protesting all of those terrible tragedies highlights it. Of course we are sick of losing, but we aren’t providing any sort of direction for the people we are protesting to. Direction is what we need, and no one has the right solution.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 30, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those example are all singular incidents, singular moments in time. Well, and one man, though you are likely referring to Mesa blowing the ’97 WS for us.
The protest is about fans saying we demand better from the organization, from the whole institution that is the Cleveland Browns, and, yes, the direction this team has been going for the better part of ten years now. It’s not a particular play call, a draft pick or a roster move, it’s Cleveland fans saying they are passionate to the point of protest for their Browns.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but how does demanding better make the team better? how does demanding better turn this 2009 team from a 3 win to an 8 win team? how does demanding better encourage the browns’ brass to make better decisions?
answer: it doesn’t. so, it just makes browns fans look stupid.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 30, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That argument is basically, “Woe is me.” We aren’t bad randomly; we are bad on purpose — because of bad decision making that has virtually been institutionalized in Cleveland.
Professional football is still, at the end of the day, a business. I don’t understand how discontent among some of the most passionate and loyal fans anywhere in this country can be simply chalked up as nothing, or worse, just plain stupid.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we are bad on purpose
this is one of the dumbest things that’s been said on this board in a long time.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 30, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. I shouldn’t have given these people the benefit of the doubt.
by Simmsinns on Oct 30, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for being so constructive.
Well, unless you believe the universe randomly chose Cleveland to fail, or we’ve got divine Providence working against us (which, at this point, seems entirely plausible), there are real reasons why we aren’t so successful at winning football games.
If you thought ‘on purpose’ meant we were actively trying to fail, or I think there’s some conspiracy, you’d be mistaken. I’m embarrassed I have to clarify that for you, but I thought I’d make that clear.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the browns lose games b/c they have worse coaches/players/drafts, etc. than the teams they play. period. nothing more, nothing less. this absurd protest will not change that anytime soon.
what other meaning does “on purpose” have? you should be embarrassed more for the ridiculous choice of words than anything, if you indeed meant something other than “willfully”.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 30, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lend me the tiniest shred of good faith that I actually want the Browns to succeed.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What else could you have meant by “on purpose”!?
by rufio on Oct 30, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there are real reasons why we aren’t so successful at winning football games.
Name them.
by golanbatrac on Oct 30, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Namely, no continuity at the GM and head coaching positions, probably some bad hires for those vital positions, no single vision for the franchise because of the turnover and even less continuity at the QB position in a QB driven league.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the solution to most of that is PATIENCE.
by golanbatrac on Oct 30, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That can be a double edge sword.
Matt Millen was a GM for Detroit for seven years. That was probably about 7 years too long.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 30, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But to be calling for Millen’s head after 7 games was unwarranted.
by golanbatrac on Oct 30, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the average Cleveland fan must have the patience of a saint.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can’t have patience when Management needlessly makes the same mistake over and over (ie, changing front offices every 4 years)
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Oct 31, 2009 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so whats the answer? changing front offices again?
by notthatnoise on Oct 31, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there is no “answer.” We have to stick with Mangini for a while, as I won’t be hypocrite. Hopefully his program works, and in 5 years it’s running smoothly. However, it’s highly doubtful that Mangini is a Super Bowl winning coach, so the sooner he’s replaced the better. All the “answers” are in the past (not firing a talented GM after a few inevitable mistakes, hiring a Super Bowl caliber regime this past offseason).
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Oct 31, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
However, it’s highly doubtful that Mangini is a Super Bowl winning coach
How’s that?
by golanbatrac on Oct 31, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I suppose that, statistically, he’s right. After all, it’s highly doubtful that any coach is a Super Bowl-winning coach. I’m guessing that there have been 20-25 different head coaches who have won Super Bowls, out of a couple hundred head coaches in the NFL over the last 40-some years, so the probability that any given head coach will win a Super Bowl is certainly small, no matter who great of a coach they are.
So, yeah, he’s probably right. But that doesn’t mean that Mangini is a bad coach.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 31, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Problem is, I doubt that kwoog gave any of that any thought. He started with ’mangini’s a bad coach’ and left it at that.
by golanbatrac on Oct 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blah blah blah
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Nov 1, 2009 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Botching the hiring of his offensive coordinator, managing the QB position in the worst possible way, not to mention in contradiction to all his other decisions, failing in New York, not being anywhere near deserving of a head coaching position (both for the Browns and Jets), etc.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Nov 1, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He made the playoffs once with the Jets and almost made it another year (if Favre hadn’t gotten injured and started throwing picks all over the place). He still had two winning seasons in three years. I’m not sure if you can call that failure.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 8:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Being fired after 3 seasons is a failure. You’d have to be living under a rock not to know he had two winning seasons in three years, so spare treating me like a clevelandcom’er. Taunenbaum (?) wouldn’t fire him if he didn’t think he had serious flaws.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Nov 1, 2009 9:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it’s an interesting case. If a coach came to Cleveland and won at least 9 games 2 out of 3 times, we’d be trying to extend him for life and make him the mayor.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 1, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no continuity at the GM and head coaching positions
So, if that’s a bad thing, then shouldn’t we be giving our new GM and new head coach some time to improve the team? Or, we can start protesting after 7 games and scream for more changes, then complain that there’s no continuity in the management of the team. That makes sense.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 30, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you have confidence these are the right guys, yes. I guess I don’t share your confidence. I see a team that, while already not great, remarkably has taken steps backwards. I fear we’ll just be mired in the Mangini for years.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, you’re saying that if, after 7 games, you don’t feel confident in our coach and GM, then it’s okay to fire them and find new leadership? Seven games is a large enough sample to judge their effectiveness?
You will never, ever get a good management team in place if they know that they’ll only get a couple months to turn the team around. Your arguments don’t make sense — you can’t complain about lack of continuity in management then at the same time say you want to get rid of our coach.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 30, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After 7 games, I don’t feel confident in this regime, that’s exactly what I’m saying. You really think I’m alone among the Browns fanbase that feels this way?
It is in no way illogical to suggest we need long-term continuity, but this regime probably isn’t it.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bill Belichick started out 2-8 at New England.
Bill Walsh started out 0-7 at San Francisco.
Bill Parcells started out 2-8-1 at New York.
Now, I’m not saying that Mangini will end up in the class of those coaches because of course I don’t know that. I’m just pointing out that a bad start by a head coach doesn’t mean he won’t be successful down the road.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 30, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough. I’d just point out that there are also dozens upon dozens of coaches that are bad and stay bad.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure. And there are also coaches who started out good and became bad, and coaches who started out good and stayed good. The point is that you can’t really make any judgements after 7 games.
Also, it you like to make immediate judgements, remember that Mangini was called “Mangenious” in his first season with the Jets when he led a 4-12 team from the year before to the playoffs. So, in NY, he started out great then got fired three years later. Maybe in Cleveland it will be the other way around.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 30, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And also protesting the existence of a new regime.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Oct 31, 2009 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which, again, accomplishes what? mangini wasn’t hired to give the fans a shoulder rub. he was hired to create a winning football organization.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 31, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My statement meant protesting the firing of Savage, as was done after another 4-12 season.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Nov 1, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is one of the dumbest things that’s been said on this board in a long time.
And that’s sayin’ something’.
by golanbatrac on Oct 30, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think Lerner doesn’t want a good football team? Like you said it’s a business, and he makes more money if Cleveland wins.
If he didn’t wanna win we’d still be stuck with Crennel. What on earth do you think he’s trying to do?
“Oh crap Romeo went 4-12. I was goin’ for 3-13! Romeo c’mere, you’re sacked”.
by skipkirk on Oct 30, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. I don’t understand how any supporter of this protest doesn’t see that plain and simple truth.
Are they just stupid, perhaps just misguided.
We can only hope for the latter.
by Simmsinns on Oct 30, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like change the offensive play calling
by Nuts4359 on Oct 31, 2009 5:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what, you think lerner isn’t trying to win now? going into the stadium late will make him all of the sudden say to himself “wait a minute, we need to start winning. why have i been so foolish.” and the indians and cavs aren’t trying to win either? how do fans think they’re more frustrated with losing than those who are ACTUALLY losing? i understand you’e just trying to see the other side of it, so this isn’t really aimed at you.
by Dawg Nuts on Oct 30, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the record, I believe the Browns organization truly does care what the fans think. At the beginning of the season, I received an email from the Browns (as a ticket purchaser) with a survey to qualify for a focus group. While I did not, a good friend of mine did and took part in the focus group at the stadium, the night before the Edwards trade.
for all the grief Lerner takes, it appears he does care and is willing to spend money. those who disagree are misinformed and have preconceived notions of who he is as an owner.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Oct 30, 2009 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For the record, I believe the Browns organization truly does care what the fans think
Honestly, I am with you. i never saw what was so bad of him being an owner. it could be worse, Al Davis or Snyder. He has shown he can spend money, but not everyone makes a great decision. He does care about the fans, do you think he would have hired a Cleveland Brown legend, Bernie Kosar, to consult? I mean who is Bernie to anyone else besides the browns, and maybe the Hurricanes? He inherited the team when his father died and i believe he is doing his best to run it how his father would want it run. he made bad choices but he is not a football guy, rather a football (soccer) guy.
by holmes213 on Oct 30, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you. I have zero issue with Lerner as an owner. None.
On the flip side, if a fan pays $75 dollars for a ticket, and he wants to “show the Browns” that he/she is tired of watching the same old crap week in and week out, go for it. Maybe they are showing that they may not always be there to pay the prices to watch the worst offense in the NFL.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 30, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I completely agree with this sentiment.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This guy was on “All Bets Are Off” yesterday. I posted somehting on this not knowing it was all ready being discussed. They aren’t just doing it for the team. It’s for the fans. You can’t stand and cheer for the team without being asked to sit down or you’ll be escorted out of the stadium. This has happened to me numerous times. It is simply a message from the fans. Randy Lerner actually caught wind f this and sent an e-mail that was read on the Drennan show. He said he was looking for advice and opinions in every corner.
by The naome40 on Oct 30, 2009 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
how can they tell you not to stand up and cheer?
by Dawg Nuts on Oct 30, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats what I dont understand. But the security came once and told me. I sat down. A couple plays later someone broke for a td and I was standing he came up after the play and said if he has to come up here and tell me again then he was going to arrest me. I couldn’t believe it!!
by The naome40 on Oct 30, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you were standing and cheering in a civilized manner without dropping f-bombs, spilling beer on people, or talking back to security. If that’s the case, then that is pretty silly. There has to be a happy medium between the asylum atmosphere at the old stadium and an opera crowd, and standing to cheer for you team shouldn’t be prohibited in the least.
I’d guess it also has to do with what level of seating you’re in, and the type of fans around you. But overall, football games are probably the last place you want your fans to be inhibited from supporting the home team from a competitive advantage standpoint.
(on a sidenote, thank you for continuing the discussion here instead of your recent fanpost. it’s easiest to keep discussion on the same topic in one place so everyone can maintain debate and points of view without looking around the entire site.)
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Oct 30, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I might have been cursing but I wasn’t yelling the words. When I was standing it was respectfull. Still, to be at a sporting event and not be able to stand and cheer,c’mon.
I also didn’t know this topic was all ready being discussed. Thank you for informing me.
by The naome40 on Oct 30, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The FanShots are further down the front page on the right sidebar. Many people don’t see them because they never scroll down that far, but FanShots should be used when you’re posting a link to another website. Unfortunately they’re not in an area that’s easily viewable.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 30, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that would be a specific issue that would be protestable.
by rufio on Oct 30, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve been to quite a few stadiums that have an unwritten policy about sitting down that is enforced when someone complains. Usually it involves another fans view being blocked because they are sitting down. I can understand someone who might have a disability making it tough for them to stand, but it irks me sometime when I’m up celebrating at a completely appropriate moment and having someone tell me to sit down because they can’t see (little kids not included). If you want to sit the entire game why not watch at home on your tv. I always figured most people went to games to enjoy and experience the atmosphere and game with their fellow fans.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Oct 31, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve read about similar stories where they want fans to constantly be sitting. That kind of protest I would be okay with.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 30, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still have fond memories of that asylum atmosphere, but as you say, there must be an acceptable middle ground. All of this is the first I’ve heard about the overpolicing of the new stadium, and about this as a protest to that. Interesting.
That said, these guys need to do a better job of getting their message out if that’s the case, because most stories I’ve seen have either omitted this completely or given it only the briefest of mentions.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 30, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really doubt that they would ask you to sit down if you were just standing and cheering appropriately, without cussing or drunkiness or causing trouble (as rolub said). I haven’t been a Browns game in a couple years, but I’ve been to them before and been to many other football games, both college and pro, and I’ve never seen security remove a fan for standing and cheering for the team in an approrpiate manner.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 30, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, I’ve seen similar stories to this too many times to dismiss it. The new CBS seems to be way too over-zealous about fans standing.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 30, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve heard a number of these stories as well.
by gahnki on Oct 30, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I too have seen/heard them.
My Uncle, who by the way unlike can easily watch a Browns game without dropping multiple expletives, went last season as was warned three different times to remain seated or he going to be removed. I haven’t been to a Browns homegame in quite sometime.
I have gone to multiple Falcons games, college games and just went to my first Vikings game this season. Never once have I been asked to sit.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 30, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
arrest you for what? disorderly conduct?
by Dawg Nuts on Oct 30, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And seriously happened to me. I wasn’t obnoxious or anything. That Mike guy even talked about it on the Bruce show.
by The naome40 on Oct 30, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the only way i believe this story is if that security guard’s mother died that morning and he came to work anyway. Otherwise I have to believe you were doing something you shouldn’t have. I have never once been told to sit down by security at cleveland browns stadium.
by notthatnoise on Oct 30, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to be clear, you must be standing up to be told to sit down. Making sure we’re not confused here.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 30, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not retarded. I stand up all the time, nobody ever says a word.
by notthatnoise on Oct 30, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just trying to add some comic relief. Jeez.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 30, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably an over-reaction on my part, but you were basically calling me stupid
by notthatnoise on Oct 30, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t like the idea of making bad football a cause. It is like protesting the Monster Truck Races because Gravedigger “don’t win enough”. I don’t think the team needs to be sent a message. If they continue to be bad they will get the message soon enough as ticket sales plummet and this will happen naturally without the need to have some kind of grassroots protest.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Oct 30, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mike Randal (one of the guys who are organizing the protest) gave an interview to Bruce on All Bets Are Off on Thursday. If any of you can find this and watch the interview I highly recommend it.
When I first heard someone was trying to get Browns fans not to enter the game till after kick off I was pissed. Fears of the Browns moving popped into my head. I can’t lie these fears are always in my head. This is especially true when I start to think support of the Browns and money flow is low. (FUCK YOU ART MODELL) When I heard people wanted to rock the boat by not showing up for kick off on the nationally televised game I thought this could be the begging of the end.
But after listing to Randal during the interview I changed my minded. Randal’s protest is not just about the horrible play from the team but the overall loss of the Cleveland Browns spirit. Randal complained that when you stand up and cheer, you’re told to sit down. That if you call the Ref and ass, you’re asked to leave (this is all done through the text alert system). That kind of personality that the old Municipal Stadium had (of witch I was never apart except in my dreams) was missing and has been missing in the new Cleveland Browns Stadium.
The other problem Randal had is that there is no one in the Browns organization that communicates with the fans. We never see Lerner on T.V. let alone hear him talk. Kokinis has been in the back ground…I think I heard him talk during in interview when he got hired. Mangini has been the only person from the Browns organization who has said much, but I think we would need to send him to Guantanamo Bay to get any real information out of him. This was what really lead me to believe what Randal is doing might make things better. Within hours of the news of a possible protest Lerner sent out an e-mail (communication at last!!). This e-mail expressed the frustration Lerner also has in the Browns and his willingness to do what ever he can to change the Browns for the better.
by The Brown Note on Oct 30, 2009 12:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for watching that show. I was trying to tell here that you can’t stand and cheer. His reasons were very impressive. I was also skeptic about the thought until his interview.
by The naome40 on Oct 30, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is good, thanks. I am more supportive of a protest that tries to reclaim the spirit of the fans instead of catering to people who aren’t passionate about the team, someone that wants everyone around them to sit during the whole football game.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 30, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is the main reason of this protest. He really was passionate about the reason of doing it. I didn’t really notice the changes until he talked about them. I was young for the old stadium but I know how it was. My dad was a dog bone fan. He doesn’t know much about the Browns these days. It really is sad. We used to get together with friends at his house every sunday with food like it was the Super Bowl. The last game we watched together was in ‘99 the home opener. I won’t let this happen to me!! Browns football, good or bad, is my religion. Every sunday the Browns will be on my t.v. To see the passion for the Cavs, knowing that the Browns used to be like them, that gets ya deep. ( I do love the Cavs though)
by The naome40 on Oct 30, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel your pain. I remember the days in the old stadium. i remember sitting behind beams. I wish it could go back to those days. But if the browns were winning some of this texting may not happen. More people would enjoy the games.
by holmes213 on Oct 30, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m ok with a protest about how fans are treated by security at games but the second this became a protest about the browns being bad, it lost all credibility, this is just a bunch of frustrated fans throwing a tantrum.
by notthatnoise on Oct 30, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lost all credibility? Why? Because the Browns are supposed to be bad forever and there’s nothing anyone can do about it?
I think some of the team’s harshest critics are actually some of the brightest optimists. If they didn’t think the Browns could ever be good again, they wouldn’t take the time to care.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry i am gonna support my team, have my butt in the stands at the start of that game, Is they are truly are “fans” would they really want to miss the best part of the Browns right now and that is Josh Cribbs returning a kick? they may stink but they are all we got…and I for one will support them. :)
at least its friday…been a long week
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 30, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point unless we kick off to open, who would want to miss a Cribbs return? Mangini would be smart to elect to receive that game.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 30, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watching Cribbs tackle isnt too bad either :)
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 30, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There it is! That didn’t take long. The ultimate fan board slander: If your opinion differs, you aren’t a ‘true fan.’
I think you can still love the Cleveland Browns even in dissent.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the browns are not supposed to be bad forever, and there’s plenty some people can do about it, but this protest amounts to saying “we’re mad the team is losing,” and i don’t think thats a revelation to anyone, so this entire protest has no point.
I’m not trying to say these people are bad fans, just misguided. its not like the organization hasn’t been trying to win.
by notthatnoise on Oct 30, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think your point is at least reasonable: you see no way in which a protest can affect any outcome. Fair enough.
I just personally think the protest should go on as proposed as an outlet for fans to show they care about the product on the field, and they demand — and deserve — better. And, hopefully, being a Monday night game, it can start a national conversation about the woes of the Cleveland Browns, maybe producing a glimmer of hope something will change for the better.
And, by the way, there’s nothing to say, protest or no protest, we can’t lick our wounds the old fashion way, be it cursing in the stands or at the TV or with a few Buds — to each his own.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They’ll be chanting for Cowher by the end of the third quarter.
by golanbatrac on Oct 30, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats my point though, what glimmer of hope are you looking for?
by notthatnoise on Oct 30, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I don’t know, the glimmer of hope is that we win three Super Bowl’s in a decade and beat the Steelers 15 times in a row. I think the hope is that the millionaires on the field play and coach to potential and that everyone in the organization approaches the Browns with the same passion and zeal as that of its fanbase; that working or playing in the Browns organization is personal; and that, at minimum, we can rise from being one of the laughingstocks of a league supposedly known for its parity.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s extremely misguided to think that the people on the field approach their jobs with anything less than the utmost passion…whether they’re winning or losing.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 30, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. I think there are serious questions about whether or not the players have faith in their head coach and whether locker room morale is anywhere remotely close to this team playing to its potential.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you think that? What signs are there that the players don’t have faith in the head coach? Have you heard any player say anything to suggest that?
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 30, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess WReserve has been in the locker room and at practices…
You wanna help the players morale? Dont sit in your seat until who knows when, on MNF, and worst of all, its the Ravens….ya great plan… what because someone told someone to sit down? wow….
by Red-Right-88 on Oct 30, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
playing to potential and playing “all out” are very different things.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 30, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I was going to say that, too. Just because a team isn’t playing up to their potential doesn’t mean they aren’t trying hard. That attitude bothers me more than anything else — when fans complain that players aren’t playing hard or don’t care just because they aren’t winning.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 30, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we as fans we can make inferences. Reporters have asked players whether they think guys are giving up. It’s been mentioned here on this blog. These are serious allegations, sure, but I’m hardly the first to mention them, hardly the first to bring up the possibility.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said you were the first — it happens all the time (usually by the fly-by posters). That doesn’t make it right.
That’s why it bothers me so much, because fans bring it up all the time. They think lack of winning implies lack of trying, as if the players just need to start trying harder and caring more then they’ll start to win games. That’s the ultimate in ignorance and stupidity.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 30, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I hardly bring it up to be ignorant or stupid. I think it’s a legitimate concern. That’s not to say I don’t recognize we have major talent deficiencies that make us far less competitive.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And having their fans protest a game on National Television is going to help morale?
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Oct 31, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My understanding from reading this thread is that it will change the culture, let the team know we care a lot, show that Browns fans are not pleased with the product on the field, and send a message.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 31, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you missed my point again, you said this protest would produce a glimmer of hope. how exactly?
by notthatnoise on Oct 31, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I outlined specific general principles. If ‘your point’ is try to get me to answer in a way that you apparently have already preconceived, I don’t know what to tell you.
by Western Reserve on Oct 31, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, you never actually answered the question (which I also asked). You told what you want to see from the team that would give you a “glimmer of hope”, but that’s not what was asked. He asked how this protest would produce a glimmer of hope, how this protest would lead to those things you mentioned.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 31, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I should hand feed it to you:
Professional football is still, at the end of the day, a business. I don’t understand how discontent among some of the most passionate and loyal fans anywhere in this country can be simply chalked up as nothing, or worse, just plain stupid.
I’d want a national conversation about the Browns to be a means to an end; the end being to change the Browns culture from losing to winning.
Among many, many other things, that’s what I have said. It answers the ‘how’ because I think fans may be able to affect positive change — yes, possibly by making Lerner rethink some of his decisions, possibly by putting some impetus on everyone connected to the organization that Cleveland fans demand better from them, from everyone. If not, if everyone in the organization is comfortable with the decisions they have made, at the very least, fans get an outlet for venting some pent up frustration.
by Western Reserve on Oct 31, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really think the difference between our wins and losses is a matter of demanding better from people? Who in the organization doesn’t want to win? You really think at 1-6 they haven’t looked at what they’ve done and what they can do to make the team better?
Its like you think they can just do better all of a sudden because you said to.
My girlfriend is an activist who helps organize rallies and if anyone should be predisposed to think this was a good idea, it’d be her. She thinks protesting a lack of wins is stupid.
at the very least, fans get an outlet for venting some pent up frustration.
That’s about all you’ve got going for you. If its going to make you feel better, go for it. I don’t think blogging here is going to help the product on the field, but I like doing it, so I do it. If you just really like to protest, then do it.
by rufio on Oct 31, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think that is what is happening, but it got the response they were looking for. Lerner has already commented about it so it made it to where they want it. nothing will change because of the protest, but they will feel better because their voice was heard by the owners.
by holmes213 on Oct 31, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really think the difference between our wins and losses is a matter of demanding better from people?
Unequivocally, yes. We may have brought in plenty of folks that wanted to win, but wanting to win and winning are two different things. I think facts support the notion that we’ve made a long line of mistakes in who has been entrusted to win football games for us.
Thank you for conceding that it would at least let fans get something off their chests.
Oh, and respectfully, I don’t give a damn what your girlfriend thinks is ‘stupid.’
by Western Reserve on Oct 31, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wanting to win and winning are two different things
Exactly. So how will expressing a desire to win (via protest) equate to wins? It won’t.
I think facts support the notion that we’ve made a long line of mistakes in who has been entrusted to win football games for us.
Right, and I never argued otherwise, so stop strawmanning me. It is really annoying.
Hopefully, we’ve already fired all of those people…unless you think Lerner or Mangini/Kokinis are part of the problem. If that’s the case, then you should be a part of a “fire Mangini” protest, not a “win” protest.
Oh, and thanks for the “no offense, but _______(something offensive).” Classy. Hopefully you’ll respond again arguing against something I never argued against and avoiding my questions. Nice to have you here.
by rufio on Oct 31, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re very welcome. Your posts never are sardonic and always represent the utmost class.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have fun at your protest. I hope it makes you feel better.
by rufio on Nov 1, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Neither of those quotes answered the question. Your first quote simply states your disgreement with people who think the protest is stupid; it does nothing to explain how it will help turn the team around. Your second quote simply restates the same thing which I replied to above; you state that you want this “national conversation” about the awfulness of the Browns to change the culture from losing to winning, but that still does not answer how it will happen. So you can be condescending to me all you want, but you still haven’t given an answer.
Once again, Lerner knows that this team is bad. He knows that the fans want a winner. He knows that the fans are frustrated after a decade of mostly losing. He doesn’t need a fan protest to tell him any of this. It’s not going to lead to any changes in the organization.
Now, if you want to argue that it lets the fans vent some frustration then I can agree with that. But that’s completely different from what you were arguing. So please stop repeating the same arguments and pretending that you’re answering our questions.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 31, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seriously, honest to goodness, cannot conceptualize how a professional football team, being a business, may take notice if there is discontent from its fans, especially some of the best and most loyal?
As for the second quote, I’m not going to write a thesis paper about it. I haven’t war gamed it. I can’t sit here and hand feed you every possible scenario as to what could come from it. It could start at the ownership level, the front office, head coach, where ever. But it certainly deserves a conversation.
Really, a simple protest at kickoff is quite the compromise. Fans still show up to support the franchise. A full court press would be if fans refuse to give the organization one more red cent, through tickets, concessions and merchandise.
by Western Reserve on Oct 31, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the players and coaches will take note, and we will keep losing (because we lack the talent sufficient to win as it currently stands.) At the end of the season, the protest will have happened, we will have won 2-4 games, and no one will even remember the protest.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 31, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we start winning this year or next, it won’t be because Kokinis and Mangini knew all along what they were doing. It won’t be because they drafted well and made the right roster moves. The credit will go to the ‘fans’; the whiny little bitches who held a sit-in in the men’s room and turned this franchise around.
by golanbatrac on Oct 31, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t ask for “every possible scenario”. How about one example — just one. You seem to think this protest will lead to a change in the culture of the team. Please give me just one example of how this protest will change something to help this team become a winning organization.
And I don’t want to hear cliches, or meaningless quotes like “Lerner will know the fans care”, or that the players will start trying harder and caring more. I want to know one specific, concrete example of how this protest will change the operations of the team for the better. I asked you how this would create a change and you haven’t given me an answer, other than to say you already answered and then tell me you don’t know every scenario. So I’ll be happy to just get one specific example from you.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 31, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, we’ve come this far, I might as well humor you:
Lerner doesn’t see anyone is the stands and panics. He calls Mangini, fed up with the play on the field and demands Quinn start for the rest of the year or he’s fired. Mangini complies. A new attitude overcomes the team. The Browns go on to win out, including a 50 point blowout win against the Steelers. We cruise into the playoffs and win our first Super Bowl. The national media dubs it ‘the Miracle in Cleveland,’ and the Cleveland Browns become the national darling.
by Western Reserve on Oct 31, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the protest is about starting Quinn? How about he calls up DA and says produce or you’re getting traded to Oakland? DA starts playing well we win out and win the super bowl.
The problem is what you said is not an outcome that can be protested for unless it’s specifically a protest for Quinn to play.
It seems like you’re defending a protest to bring about change while trying not to be specific about the change, when in actuality you just want Quinn to start.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Oct 31, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, in other words, you don’t have an answer.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 31, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I answered you precisely.
I think my views are pretty well summarized here, and I think we’ve pretty well exhausted this thread. If you have any further questions, re-read the thread, make some inferences and do some critical thinking. If you still conclude we disagree, well, we knew that from the beginning.
by Western Reserve on Oct 31, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You didn’t answer me — that was sarcasm.
Don’t tell me to “make some inferences and do some critical thinking”. This blog is a place for intelligent discussion and we always expect people to back up their information with facts. You can’t just make claims then repeat yourself over and over when people ask you to explain yourself further. You started out here making intelligent arguments, which I admired even if I disagreed with you (because most new posters don’t do that), but now you’re denegrated to sarcasm and insult to make your points.
As I’ve mentioned before, if fans want to protest because it makes them feel better then that’s certainly their right. But if they think that they’re going to have some influence on the team by protesting then they’re sorely mistaken. Lerner wants to win as much as any of the fans and he knows that this team isn’t winning. He knows that the fans are upset, so this protest isn’t going to open his eyes to fan dissatisfaction and spur him to make changes. He just hired a new coach and GM and he’s going to give them time to see if they can build a winning team. If fans want to protest some specific change they want to see made, such as starting Quinn or firing the coach, then that’s one thing, but to just protest losing in general is futile.
You kept repeating that you hoped this protest would fuel a national converation about the sorry state of the Browns and spur a turnaround by the team. I asked you why you thought that would happen and you still haven’t answered me, other than vague generalities and cliches. That’s not how we have discussions on this blog. So you can whine and hurl insults at me all you want, but if you want us to take you seriously then please start backing up your statements with facts and logic and answer the questions that are asked of you.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 31, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly was just being lighthearted because you insisted I give you a single example. Like I said, I can’t say how it all could potentially play out and I can’t support the argument with facts from the future. It’s all there, and I think this thread could use closure.
Also, if you look through the various threads, comments here are littered with sarcasm, including some from you. Please, no need to act like you’re the sheriff around here.
by Western Reserve on Oct 31, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing wrong with sarcasm; as you said, I use it often myself. Just don’t use sarcasm then respond that you “answered me precisely”.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 31, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seriously, honest to goodness, cannot conceptualize how a professional football team, being a business, may take notice if there is discontent from its fans, especially some of the best and most loyal?
This has never been Brad’s point. Of course they will take notice. They’ve already taken notice. They can take all the notice they want, but that won’t change our W-L record. That’s what we are saying. They want to win already, and as you say above “wanting to win and winning are two different things”.
by rufio on Oct 31, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
specific general principles
uhhhh….
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 31, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Specific modifies general modifies principles. I think it’s in the adverb and adjective section.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And, hopefully, being a Monday night game, it can start a national conversation about the woes of the Cleveland Browns
So you’re hoping that the entire country will be talking about how bad the Browns are? Yeah, that sounds like a great plan. Let’s try to be the laughingstock of the league.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 30, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That quote by what it omits takes some serious license from what I actually said.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. I omitted the part where you hoped that would provide a “glimmer of hope” for the future. First of all, I don’t see how making the Browns a joke on national TV is going to provide any hope for the future of the team. Secondly, including that part doesn’t change what you wrote or the meaning of the part I quoted. I didn’t change the intent of your words; that’s exactly what you meant to say.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 30, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now you are going to tell me what I meant. Okay, cool.
Um, wake up. Where have you been? The Browns already are a joke. I don’t think a gesture by the fans that says the joke’s not funny anymore is really going the cause us to be a laughingstock; we’re already there.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t tell you what you meant; you said it yourself. I just repeated it. If you don’t mean it, then don’t post it.
I know the Browns are already a laughingstock, but I don’t want to make them more of one than they already are. Thankfully they’re not the worst team in the NFL.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 30, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, I just don’t understand that. “Thankfully they’re not the worst team in the NFL.” So is that some sort of moral victory?
You’re a Buckeyes fan? Would Ohio State Nation really accept it if OSU just wasn’t the worst team in the Big Ten? If they had ten years of football as remotely bad as the Browns have? I just don’t understand why Cleveland’s ineptitude should be tolerated by the fanbase to the point where a missed kickoff in protest is a scandal.
by Western Reserve on Oct 30, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone here use the word scandal? If so I missed it. What I’m getting is that most people here think it’s just useless, except maybe as a release of frustration for some of the fans.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 30, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. Scandal is a gross exaggeration.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 31, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really hate to do this but since you feel the need to nitpick:
Your words:
I was just responding to your comment about me "waking up" that we’re already a laughingstock. I’m well aware of the opinion held by the national media about the Browns, and was merely pointing out that I don’t want it to get any lower…
scandal n. – loss of or damage to reputation caused by actual or apparent violation of morality or propriety
That’s the last I’ll say about that, but I think the word choice was appropriate.
by Western Reserve on Oct 31, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So disagreeing with you is “nitpicking”?
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 31, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brad agreed that we’re a laughingstock in the eyes of the national media. He didn’t discuss whether that’s because we’re awful as a team, because of other reasons, or maybe because of all of the above. No “violation of morality or propriety” was mentioned, so this isn’t a relevant quote.
In other words, just because people think you suck doesn’t mean a scandal is involved.
I think the choice of the word scandal was loaded and connotationally overblown, but that’s the last I’ll say about it as well. We have a game today, so really, who cares about this?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I used it. Is there a rule about being the first to use a word around here?
by Western Reserve on Oct 31, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can’t really compare the NFL and college football — completely different expectations. The NFL is supposed to be a (relatively) level playing field while college football has no such expectation. Also, most OSU fans aren’t happy unless the Buckeyes win every game by 20 points, so if the Buckeyes have a few bad games the fans are screaming for the coaches to get fired. That’s not something I would aspire Browns fandom to do. (On the other hand, Browns fandom screams for the head coaches’ head after two months on the job.)
And my comment wasn’t that I was happy to be this bad, or that is was some sort of moral victory. I was just responding to your comment about me “waking up” that we’re already a laughingstock. I’m well aware of the opinion held by the national media about the Browns, and was merely pointing out that I don’t want it to get any lower (as you wanted to have happen by having a “national conversation about the woes of the Browns”). I was merely saying that we’re currently not viewed as the worst team in the NFL and I would not like us to achieve that distinction.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 30, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, frankly, I wouldn’t necessarily want the Browns fanbase to be as militant as the OSU faithful either. But at this point, after so many years of failure, I think Browns fans deserve to be, attitudinally, at least half as upset as, say, the average OSU fan after a loss to Purdue.
There you go taking half a quote again. I’d want a national conversation about the Browns to be a means to an end; the end being to change the Browns culture from losing to winning. As a Browns fan, it would not be for the purposes for dragging Cleveland through the mud.
I was merely saying that we’re currently not viewed as the worst team in the NFL and I would not like us to achieve that distinction.
Again, I think our expectations as fans should be a bit higher than, “At least we aren’t at the very bottom!” And by the way, some of the worst teams now — not all, but some — such as St. Louis and Tampa Bay have actually won Super Bowls in recent memory.
by Western Reserve on Oct 31, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don’t know what half of a quote I’m using, but whatever. I know exactly what you are saying, and I’m disagreeing with your point. I’m not manipulating anything that you are saying.
I’d want a national conversation about the Browns to be a means to an end; the end being to change the Browns culture from losing to winning
There’s your entire sentence — am I allowed to quote that? This is what I disagree with; I don’t see how creating a national conversation about the futility of the Browns will lead to a change in the culture of losing. Do you think Lerner will think to himself “well, since everyone is talking about how bad my team is on MNF, now I’m really going to try to do something about it!” I just don’t understand that concept at all.
Please stop accusing me of manipulating your words or misquoting you; I understand what you are saying, and I disagree with your premise.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 31, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are just spouting catch phrases that don’t mean anything, like “change the culture”. How exactly do the fans do that by protesting?
If I have read you correctly, you think protesting → media coverage →…“changing the culture”? And what exactly does that mean to you? And why exactly will it be done because of a protest?
by rufio on Oct 31, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Tressel retired, the new coach would start out with a team that had more talent than 90% of the teams it played. The same can not be said for the Browns.
If that new coach didn’t live up to the standard set by Tress, I certainly wouldn’t be protesting after 7 games. AND, if I was I would be protesting something; a change at quarterback, a change in offensive/defensive philosophy. I certainly wouldn’t protest the fact that we aren’t winning.
There’s a point to protesting over-policing at games. There is a point to protesting to try to get a coach or GM fired. These are both things directly under Lerner’s control. There is no point in protesting general suckitude, because Lerner is already trying to win.
“Accepting it” is all any of us can do, unless you really think you can get one of us hired as a coach or you think you can lace ’em up and take on the Ravens. The players and coaches in place are already trying to win games.
by rufio on Oct 31, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps ‘accepting it’ shouldn’t be our governing philosophy as fans.
And the ‘unless you think you can do better’ attitude is completely bunk. We are talking about about career football people here, who get paid a heck of a lot of money to do their jobs, and they are doing it poorly. Apply that same philosophy to other facets of your life. Would you ever question medical advice from a doctor? Legal advise from a lawyer? How about policy from a politician? Or do you just go through life ‘accepting it’?
Cleveland has great fans. But we don’t need to sit here and tow the company line.
by Western Reserve on Oct 31, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Kokonis and Mangini have done a wonderful job thus far.
by golanbatrac on Oct 31, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no doubt they’d disagree with you.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Oct 31, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mangini and Kotnkus (sp)
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Oct 31, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You really think that they think that they blew the draft, and that the roster moves they’ve made have been bad?
More to the point, given the team they inherited and the roster moves that they’ve made, do you really think that they came into the season thinking that this team would win games?
by golanbatrac on Oct 31, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A 1-6 regime can’t call its own job “wonderful” by definition.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Nov 1, 2009 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don’t need to NOT be critical of the team, of course. Why do you think I am here breaking down tape? I don’t always highlight things that go well.
Still, if you think they don’t know that they need to put a winner on the field via the choruses of boos, the signs, the media, and most of all THEIR OWN DAMN WIN LOSS RECORD, you’re kidding yourself.
I wouldn’t ask a lawyer to sue someone and then protest because they didn’t get me enough money. Its in their interest to get me as much as they can. Sure, I might go to someone else to see if there is anything more I can do. If that 2nd lawyer said s/he could get me more money, I’d FIRE my first lawyer and go to him/her.
You can protest that your country is fighting in a war. Protesting that your country is losing a war is pretty useless.
But I thought you weren’t protesting to get Mangini fired or any coaching changes made, just to “change the culture” or to “tell the organization you want a winner”—none of which your protesting will actually do.
by rufio on Oct 31, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And way to ignore the main points of my posts after slamming Brad for supposedly doing the same to you, btw.
Unless you can do something that has an impact on the Browns’ ability to score points or stop their opponents, accepting it is all you can do.
You can protest and get a politician to change their vote on an issue that you think will help the economy. You can’t protest a “bad economy”.
by rufio on Oct 31, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point is the protest is not toeing any line. It’s just an expression of anger. If that’s all it’s meant to be then that’s fine.
But it’s setting yourself up for failure if you think that that expression can possibly have any effect on Lerner, because he knows fans are frustrated and angry. You don’t go to a doctor, or a lawyer or a politician and just say hey I don’t like this, you state what it is you don’t like or want to see or want to happen.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Oct 31, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think anyone is tolerating the Browns losing, I think some just realize that in the big picture and the picture in picture a protest with nothing for a goal will accomplish nothing.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Oct 31, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, wake up. Where have you been? The Browns already are a joke. I don’t think a gesture by the fans that says the joke’s not funny anymore is really going the cause us to be a laughingstock; we’re already there.
So why are we protesting again? To let the management know something that is already known?
The more and more I read about this the more I start to feel it’s an attention grab.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Oct 31, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. An attention grab, an attempt to usurp credit when we do in fact start winning, and the first shot in the battle to get Mangini out of town.
by golanbatrac on Oct 31, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking more attention for the initiators.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Oct 31, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahahaha, Mangini starts winning and people want him out of town?
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Nov 1, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, is it?
by golanbatrac on Nov 1, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fact, it is.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Nov 1, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not that there’s nothing anyone can do about it, but what can you do about it through a protest without specific goals related to the play on the field.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Oct 31, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m completely fine with this. Nothing will come of it, but as rolub said above, it gives a voice to the voiceless. The Browns aren’t providing entertainment value so the fans may as well create their own.
by gahnki on Oct 30, 2009 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Why The Hate?
This protest will accomplish nothing – the only way to really get the attention of the ownership would be not buying tickets.
And since that’s not going to happen, why not vent in an organized way?
The team sucks, but there’s no need to heap abuse at our fellow fans who while being a tad idealistic are not doing anything wrong.
by Pruitt on Oct 30, 2009 5:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m not against a protest, I just think we are missing a real purpose for the protest. A protest can’t be against losing ways. If we had a specific demand for change, then it would make more sense.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 30, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. I mean, every fan base doesn’t want to lose. Every fan base thinks they “deserve” a winning team. Every fan base cares about the team. A fan protest against losing will work just as well as going to Wall Street and protesting a falling stock market.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 30, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no issue with this. A lot of the these fans have invested a ton of money, time and patience with this team. They have spent a whole hell of lot more than just the Sunday ticket, so good for them.
In my opinion this team has gotten a free ride from the fans and the media for the last ten years. It seems every year with this team it is the initial year for the franchise. Every year a new set of excuses. Since 1999 only the Lions have a worse record than the Browns. So if these fans want to protest, that is there right. Just curious how many season ticket holders are on this site?
I think it is easy for us to say “what the hell are these idiots doing” that don’t purchase the PSL’s, don’t pay for parking, don’t pay for a $8.00 beer and don’t have tickets in the family for decades.
This team is an embarrassment. I have two Steeler fans as friends. They tried to give me a T-shirt that read: On the front, “It is so easy to beat the Browns” and on the back: " That even a caveman can do it" Showing a Steeler caveman beating the Browns with a Club. I respectfully declined to take the shirt.
It is time for enough is enough. Unfortunately Mangini will be here for at least one more year maybe two. I am not sold on “The Eric” The process of rebuilding will continue.
by Grockcubs on Oct 31, 2009 1:31 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Rob Ryan = fantastic
Honestly, if nothing else his Coors Light commercials are going to be great!
by L Train on Oct 31, 2009 1:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rob Ryan : show up and back the team
“That [ticks] me off. This is Cleveland. They’re going to show up and back this damn team,”
“This is a town that’s tough and that loves football. Nobody’s happy. I hate me, too. So they hate me. Great. Doesn’t mean you turn your back.”
by rufio on Oct 31, 2009 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love how he didn’t say he thought they would but told them that they would.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Oct 31, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“He could throw a strawberry through a battleship,”
arguably the best quote in history
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 31, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got a kick out of that one too. Ryan’s press conferences are the best.
by golanbatrac on Nov 1, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally I have a problem with protesting a football team when there are other worthwhile things to protest. And really what kind of protest is skipping a kick-off? Wear pins or something noticeable on television so that those watching are constantly reminded of it.
But please not bags, it was kind of funny the first time, but now it looks kind of silly.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Oct 31, 2009 3:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Personally I have a problem with protesting a football team when there are other worthwhile things to protest.
Worth repeating.
by golanbatrac on Oct 31, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s a good article from the Cleveland Frowns blog about the pointlessness of this protest. It rehashes many of the points we’ve already made here.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 31, 2009 8:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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