As Browns Take on Bears, is Chicago's Future Really in Good Shape?
by Chris Pokorny on Oct 31, 2009 2:52 PM EDT
in General News
75 comments
Browns vs. Bears - Game Preview
I've never understood all of the hype surrounding QB Jay Cutler.
Sure, he has shown the potential to be a very productive quarterback. But there are other games where he'll make decisions throughout the game that prevent the offense from doing much of anything. For all of the potential he has had the past several years, he has failed to move on to the "next level", which is why I was thrilled when Cutler was not dealt to the Cleveland Browns early in the offseason. If you recall, the Browns were one of the teams reportedly interested in the former disgruntled Bronco. When Chicago landed Cutler, here's what they had to give up:
- First Round Pick in 2009
- Third Round Pick in 2009
- First Round Pick in 2010
The Denver Broncos have the media to thank for always touting Cutler as a top-tier quarterback ever since he was drafted. Beyond their victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Bears, especially including Cutler, have struggled against contending teams such as the Green Bay Packers, the Atlanta Falcons, and the Cincinnati Bengals. As efficient as Carson Palmer was last week against the Bears' defense, Cutler threw three interceptions in a 45-10 blowout. Earlier in the year, Mel Kiper stressed Cutler being overhyped:
"This guy was overhyped at the combine, he was overhyped at Senior Bowl week, he’s been overhyped before he was drafted. The media, they love Jay Cutler. Jay Cutler can do no wrong. I’ve been saying he’s overrated since day one. Everyone’s been pounding their chests saying, ‘Oh, I love Jay Cutler, I’m a genius.’ They have egg on their face now."
-Mel Kiper
Part of the problem? Cutler is stubborn, on and off the field. His stubbornness in Denver helped lead to his dismissal, and on the field, even if a receiver didn't run his route correctly or isn't open, he'll try to force it right at "the spot he's supposed to be." The Broncos are 6-0 under Kyle Orton, and the Minnesota Vikings are 5-1 under Brett Favre. Cutler might have the potential to be better than both of them, but right now, Orton and, believe it or not, Favre, have been effective game managers.
The Bears have always been known for their defense, and acquiring Cutler was an attempt to have dominance on both sides of the ball. Maybe they'll find receivers to better complement Cutler next year, but by then, they're going to have to start worrying about their lack of youth defensively.
The Browns didn't face Cutler in the preseason; he sat out the fourth exhibition game just as Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson did. Odds are in Cutler's favor that he'll rebound from last week's "off" performance and light it up against the Browns. Until Cutler starts leading his team to victory against the contending teams though, I'd probably take at least ten quarterbacks on my roster before I'd take him.
This isn't meant to say that Anderson (or Quinn) outweigh Cutler by any means; it's becoming clearer and clearer that neither quarterback will be considered long-term answers. Considering what the Bears have invested in Cutler though, if the Browns are able to find a solid quarterback in next year's draft, I'm not going to wish we had Cutler on our team instead. Maybe that'll change in the future, but three years of hype has gotten old real quick.
Running Game & Tight End
Matt Forte has seen his carries go down from last season. After averaging nearly 20 carries a game last season, that figure has dropped to 15 carries per game. I expected Forte's carries to increase this season, with Cutler being efficient by picking his spots to move the ball down the field and utilize some of the speed Chicago has in Devin Hester and Johnny Knox. The Bears rank 29th in the league this season running the football.
Greg Olsen should be the target that Cutler utilizes more often. The Bears need to start utilizing him in areas that aren't near the goal line.
The Right Tackle Swap
Even though a trade wasn't involved, the Browns and the Bears essentially swapped right tackles during the offseason. On the Browns is veteran John St. Clair; on the Bears is veteran Kevin Shaffer. Take your pick between the two, because I really don't see how either player can be measured as an upgrade.
The Bears' Adewale Ogunleye will be matched up against St. Clair on Sunday:
"It's going to be fun going against him,'' Ogunleye said. "I'm just going to say that he tries hard. He's the kind of guy that goes in every game and busts his ass, excuse me, busts his tail. He's the kind of guy that you want on your team, so he's a good guy."
The Bears have been held without a sack the past two games. The offensive line has remained one of the lone bright spots for the Browns, with the right side of the line even holding its own in recent weeks.
Tommie Harris Returning
The Bears were without DT Tommie Harris last week, and his absence was noted. With linebackers Brian Urlacher and Pisa Tinoisomoa out for the season, the Bears were outmatched against the Bengals. Having Harris back should improve the other units as well.
Tonight, I'll have another small preview of the Bears/Browns contest. Don't forget to check out rufio's midseason analysis of the Browns offense.
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I was for trading Cutler. My thinking was, and still is, that with Cutler we no longer would have had the who is the QB discussion.
Personally, and I only have rumors to go on, but I thought that we could have gotten the deal done without touching this seasons draft choices, just because before the season, Quinn>Orton.
I think Quinn might have had slightly more value than Orton. But I still think we are talking Quinn and two first round picks. That ain’t worth it for Cutler. I’ve never though very highly of Cutler, mainly because I put a lot of stock in what Mel Kiper says.
Also, in my opinion Cutler acted like more of a childish ass than TO, Braylon, Chad Johnson and Winslow combined. I would stay away from him at almost all costs after how he acted this past off season.
you’re insane if you think Cutler acted like a child, and more than TO, Braylon, Johnson and Winslow combined! He asked to be traded after is his new coached tried trading for Matt Cassel. How is that being a child? Clearly he wasn’t wanted by Josh McDaniels so he wanted to be traded. But you if you think that’s worse than anything those guys did combined, well that’s just wrong.
I wouldn’t go as far to say it’s worse than the WRs, but he absolutely acted like a crybaby. Plain and simple.
Coaches “shop around” all the time, if you can’t take it than you don’t belong in the NFL.
On another note, McDaniels has been a helluva coach thus far, and the Cutler trade was a shred of genius.
I think if he got Cassel for a second rounder (even without Vrabel), that would have been great for the Broncos
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 1, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Nope. Cutler refused to talk to his coach, wouldn’t return calls from the team owner, and pouted to the media. He was as unprofessional as I’ve ever heard an NFL player being.
So you run around toting your cell phone, so your boss´s boss can reach you at all times, no matter where in the country you happen to be, no matter what you happen to be doing? You would attend voluntary meetings in a setting detrimental to you? You would come to negotiate your future in something billed a “talk”, that would indeed have been a first meeting to assess the professional relationship?
McDaniels lied to him. He felt betrayed.
Honestly, I don’t really blame him. He could have gone a different route to get where he did, but I don’t think it was childish.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 31, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree, but I think we may have already discussed this in another thread.
Basically, I don’t think we could have outdone the Bears without going over Cutler’s value.
He’s also the kind of QB that plays as good as his surroundings, which isn’t much at all in our offense.
We have the worst QB situation in the NFL.
With Cutler, that wouldn’t be the case. For a first, third and Quinn that would be a steal.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 31, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
So then what? We have a better QB situation, but have a much worse line, less depth elsewhere? We go 4-12 instead of 2-14? Thank god we didn’t make that deal.
why is that?
because 4-12 would make you pick 5-7th next year instead of 2-3rd with a 2-14 record?
by reefermadness3 on Oct 31, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t really care about where we draft within the top 10.
I’m just sayin its not like the upgrade from Cutler to DA/Quinn would translate into a playoff appearance or anything like that. We go from a really really bad team to a really bad team.
lol
agreed. a lot of people here in chicago were all superbowl this and dominate that when jay came on board. wish i was one of them but watching angelo poop the bed on draft day made me think we would be lucky to win 10 games this year. so far they have only slightly underperformed to what i thought they would do (surprises are the lack of a consistent pass rush AGAIN despite adding a overhyped position coach and the severe crappiness of the bears’ o-line)
by reefermadness3 on Oct 31, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You can plug spots at RT and Center. You don’t win in the NFL consistently with a “plug-in” QB. Center and RT are positions that are very nice to have filled by top of the line players.
QB is different. This franchise will go into yet another offseason with a massive question mark at QB. We will probably have to use a top 10 pick on a QB, give him 50 million and hope for the best.
But we would had better depth and a center. I love Mack, but I would trade him in a heartbeat for Cutler.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 31, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right. All we need is one of the best defenses of all-time.
Sweet. So I guess we are set.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions
No, I agree with B19K. You don’t win consistantly without a very good-to-great QB. Even though QB’s often get too much credit for a team’s wins and losses (see:Ben) it’s still the most important position on the field. Those Ravens teams did win a Super Bowl but didn’t really do much else in any other year, so that’s not winning consistantly. And they had an all-time great defense, which we aren’t even close to having.
If I knew we were getting a great QB then I’d give up a heck of a lot to get him. Unfortunately, finding a great QB in the draft is always an uncertainty.
1.) Cutler is not very good to great.
2.) The Ravens haven’t won consistently?? They were 8-8 the year before the Super Bowl win and 10-6 the year after. They had one down 7-9 year (salary cap hell) and then were 10-6 (and a playoff win) and 9-7 the following 2.
3.) The Ravens aren’t alone amongst great teams with bad QBs in the last 10 years or so. Tampa Bay’s Super Bowl team, Chicago’s NFC championship team, Carolina’s NFC Championship team, the Giants’ Super Bowl team, Cowher’s Super Bowl team, etc., etc, all had very average Quarterback play, sometimes downright bad. We need an upgrade at the position, but we don’t need some reckless move that would mortgage depth, youth, and talent at a variety of other positions.
As I mentioned below, none of those teams were examples of “winning consistantly”. That’s the point.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
You think that the Giants didnt have a QB two years ago?
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 1, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Eli was terribly mediocre for that entire season. I still don’t think he is any sort of elite QB.
Eli had a great playoffs.
I think it’s just hard to quarterback the Bears. Their receiving corps is so awful – Hester is their best weapon, and he’s a converted positionless athlete.
Orton is succeeding in Denver because of a.) enormous luck and b.) a pretty talented staff around him. He can put the ball in space for Gaffney, Stokely or Marshall and get a 15 yard pass play instead of taking that sack. Add in a decent running game and their offense can function.
Kiper is a total jagoff. We can dismiss his “chip on shoulder” remarks about other people having egg on their face.
Anyone who would refer to
Jim McMahon and Phil Simms as ‘bad to average’ QB’s knows next to nothing about pro football.
Just wondering where that was said?
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 1, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
I didn’t say Cutler was great, just agreeing with the principle that teams don’t win consistantly without a fanchise QB. When I said win consistantly, I mean mutliple playoff appearences with multiple chances to advance in the playoffs. The Ravens didn’t do that — as you said, they bounced between 7 wins and 10 wins. That’s good, and certainly much better than we’ve done lately, but not great.
Most of those teams you metioned were one-year wonders. None of them had consistant runs in the playoffs over a few years. That’s what I mean by winning consistantly. Sure, if you have a great defense and great running game you can win games with an average QB, but that won’t last long with all the turnover that teams experience. A great QB can be a foundation for a team for many years.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
If so, I for one won’t miss them.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Bears and Browns fan here
I can not be happier this team has Jay Cutler. There is no way he is overrated. He makes throws that no Bears QB has made in decades. The Bears offense has been has been struggling because of a brutal offensive line and zero run game. Also the defense has been a joke all season, which isn’t Cutler’s fault. Cutler like any QB needs more support than that. Getting a franchise QB means that you’re going to have to give up something in return and i think the Broncos could have actually gotten more from the Bears and other teams but they settled on some draft picks and Orton. I don’t believe the Bears future is hurt by having Jay Cutler, but things certainly aren’t looking good for the coaching staff and GM Jerry Angelo. Cutler will be the piece to build the offense around and I couldn’t be happier. Do not listen to Mel Kiper, that guy is a moron. I remember him talking up Tim Couch and how great he was and look at how that turned out.
Finally also as a Browns fan I can only dream of the day this teams gets a franchise QB and leader like Jay Cutler. I thought maybe Quinn was the answer but it’s starting to seem less and less likely he will even be given a chance.
Cutler is definitely overrated, but he’s also better than anything the Browns currently have.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
this is obvious. but would you give up Alex Mack, Brady Quinn AND next year’s first rounder for him? I would have said no before the season, and even with Quinn regressing like crazy, I would say no now.
Another obvious question is: Would you give up Alex Mack, David Veikune, Abram Elam, Kenyon Coleman, and Brett Ratliff for Mark Sanchez?
My answer to both of these questions is no, but we need to get production from the quarterback position somehow.
Obviously. but the QB situation didn’t look as bad now as it did during the offseason. Even to the most pessimistic of fans or commentators (or coaches). Quinn has regressed incredibly and Anderson has been historically bad even by his putrid standards.
And like I eluded to above, this team is not a better QB from being a contender. Too many other holes to fix to mortgage combinations of first round picks AND depth at other positions for a chance to fix QB.
That said, QB definitely is on the list of needs going into next year.
The going price was two first round picks, and whatever else he was worth in immediate players.
Edwards alone was worth more than a first round pick to the Giants prior to the draft. Quinn and Anderson were worth a first round pick, too, before this whole devaluation process.
The Giants wouldn’t even part with a SECOND round pick for Edwards, as has been widely reported.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
They offered a second and a fifth and Manningham or Hixon. We wanted Smith though.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 1, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
bears fan here
cutler is probably the main reason da team is 3-3 instead of 1-5. the guy may throw some picks but anyone who has suffered through watching the bears offense trotting in place all these years can tell at least we finally have one very good piece of the engine behind center. there are multiple serious issues on both side of the ball and watching #6 try to keep this team together has been one of the few bright spots so far this year. trading away some 1st round picks for this guy is no problem for the bears either because the current gm for the bears has a rich and storied history of COMPLETELY SCREWING THE POOCH on 1st day draft picks. for every devin hester there are 5 michael haynes/mark bradleys/rex grossmans/dan bazuins/etc. who don’t pan out at all. or, as is becoming more common these days, leave chicago and flourish somewhere else.
the comment made above about orton and favre being better game managers speaks directly to the obvious fact that both of those qb’s have much, much better overall teams to work with than cutler does here in chicago. the picks last sunday were directly attributable to #6 trying to somehow keep the sadsack bears in the game after the defense was treated like a worn-down speed bump by the bengals all day long. i hope cutler can survive bigboy shaun rogers landing on him a few times tomorrow because the bears’ o-line is subpar at best.
in any case good luck (but not too much of course) this sunday and as always i hope no one from either team sustains an injury
I may disagree with the favorable review of Cutler here, I think he has played pretty poorly this year, but you are correct to point out that the Bears overall aren’t that good.
we shall have to agree to disagree then
right now jay is the 3rd best qb in our division but i am of the belief a large part of his negative plays are a result of terrible pass protection…resulting in lots of hurries, sacks and other bad things. unless the bears’ o-line somehow gets their act together you’ll probably see some of what i am talking about this sunday.
by reefermadness3 on Oct 31, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You wish the Bears weren´t that good.
Just as you wish everyone would buy your lame proclamation that Cutler sucks.
With Cutler at the helm they are primed for a playoff run…every year!!! The Bears always have above average players on their roster, ready to step it up a notch, under the right leadership. So far Cutler is getting in tune with his players. He can win at will, often. Their record is not reflective of their potential.
Are the Bears dominant? No. Are they spectacular? Not yet.
Do they have a chance in every game? Yes, already.
Cutler is great, not just good.
They didn’t have a chance at Cincinnati a week ago. And I don’t think they make the playoffs this year. They’re O-line is old and extremely suspect. They’re defense has injuries. Their WRs lack size and consistency. Forte is a terribly average RB.
Cutler is not great, no where near great. He is slightly above average to good. The Browns defense stopped him, frustrated him, sacked him. Made him look like what he was- an average NFL QB.
In his two full seasons in Denver
Cutler was saddled with the 28th and 30th ranked defense.
Joe Montana or John Elway couldn’t win with defenses that bad.
Things in Chicago, so far in 2009, aren’t a whole lot better (# 20).
Beyond everthing else, when your defense sucks QB’s usually try to do too much (usually to no avail).
That’s why Drew Brees has been awesome, and now with a [better] defense this year, is even more awesome.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 1, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m late to the party here, but I’m disappointed in this Cutler assessment.
Cutler is stubborn, on and off the field. His stubbornness in Denver helped lead to his dismissal, and on the field, even if a receiver didn’t run his route correctly or isn’t open, he’ll try to force it right at “the spot he’s supposed to be.”
This is the kind of thing we usually make fun of around here, isn’t it? Who says he’s stubborn? Do we really think that a receiver will run the wrong direction and Cutler will throw it to the correct spot anyway? Why? to make a point to his stupid receiver? And how do we, as fans, really know what’s going on in these plays, anyway?
Cutler is still mistake-prone, but his statistics in his third year in the league compare nicely with a lot of other elite quarterbacks. The guy is still very young, and he’s going to get better. He’s struggled this year surrounded by garbage, but I don’t think there’s a lot to criticize him for other than mindless abstracts like “he’s stubborn.”
another WCG poster here
I agree. Jay has been a team player in Chicago. He has had no off the field issues and players always talk him up as a great leader and a stand up guy. I’ve never heard him badmouth a teammate, even though his team has made it hard for him to succeed.
The situation in Chicago is so awful no QB could really do much. The Bears have the worst OLine in the NFL, and Cutler has done remarkably well given the horrible pass protection, lack of elite receivers, terrible run game and JV play calling. Today was not his best game, but I can give him some credit for making a few clutch plays and hanging tough through pressure. His jersey is going to need a lot of Tide.
The INT numbers aren’t good, but they don’t worry me too much. JC never has time to set his feet or get a good read and he can’t step up in the pocket because it collapses so fast. The run isn’t there so we’re passing 70% of the time, and in 3rd and long a lot. Everyone knows we’ll pass and will not pass protect.
I tend to agree with reefermadness about the trade. Our first round picks never seem to live up to their potential, plus in a stroke of luck, the fifth round pick in the trade ended up being Johnny Knox.
He’s stubborn because he doesn’t make the right adjustments. This was clearly evidenced when we just faced him Sunday; how many of those throws should’ve been easy completions?
Again, the point of the article isn’t that he’s a bad QB, it’s that I don’t see him as a top-5 quarterback like some have pegged him to be. I get that Chicago’s situation is awful, but to say that no QB could really do much is something I disagree with; I could see the true top-5 or even top-10 quarterbacks this season faring better.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 2, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
agree and disagree
You’re right; he’s not top 5 or top 10 now, but he definitely has the potential to be. He is still quite young. We’re just happy to have someone who can be a playmaker, at this point. He needs a new OC though and more talent around him. The red zone play calling yesterday was atrocious. Delayed screen, wildcat, are you serious?
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