Info about 2010 draft
by mooncamping on Oct 9, 2009 7:59 AM EDT
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Just for those who aren´t informed, yet, and I know this is early, but these are the Browns 2010 draft picks, so far.
1st round
2nd round
2nd or 3rd round...from the Jets based on Braylon Edwards achievement in 2009.
3rd round
4th round
5th round...from the Jets for Braylon Edwards.
5th round
EDIT: Thanks Mr. Dorn: 5th round...from the Bucs for Kellen Winslow.
6th round...from the Panthers for Louis Leonard.
6th round
7th round
That´s ten picks (EDIT: 11 picks to include round 5 pick from Bucs for Kellen Winslow), and we haven´t even begun house cleaning. Quinn and Anderson alone, and I suggest we transfer them before not during the draft, are worth a first round pick each at least. That´s more picks than we can get value for.
I say we loose picks and see what we can get now, rather than gain picks, which should be pretty high in each round and thus attractive, because we aren´t expected to do so well this year.
If we draft players expected to start as soon as possible, based on needs because of our current lackluster roster, we can predict another off year, allowing for rookie learning curves. We should stock up now. Another factor is, there will be expansion teams, probably soon. Were also seeing some of the top college teams using what you might term college level talent not necessarily useful in the NFL, for the sake of greater athleticism at that level. I think this trend is discernable. The range of player talent from college might get thin soon. Lets take a good look around the NFL, and see what we can procur to succeed now, improving gradually whence this decision is made.
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Please stop posting Fanshots. I mean come on. Of course there are system colleges. But not EVERY SINGLE ONE. And the idea of college talent is dieing out is very stupid. Except for the CFL and UFL (which don’t contribute much in the first place), the NCAA is where the NFL receives most of it’s players. The idea of losing talent doesn’t make sense because if you’re only getting your players from one body of resource YOU DON"T LOSE TALENT, the talent curve just changes.
And thank god you’re not our GM because it’d be stupid to attain players now with those picks. And as of now, we MAY BE ABLE to receive a 1st round pick for Quinn still but definitely not DA. We MIGHT get a 2nd or 3rd but not a 1st. And even if we did give out picks for players, we wouldn’t get top end players. We start receiving many of our picks AFTER the 3rd round. 3rd round picks and up don’t grab NFL teams to deal out their stars.
You make less sense than you did when you first started posting here. Stop posting please.
We’re not going to get a first round pick for either Quinn or DA. If you think they’re so bad that we need to get rid of them, why would other teams give up a first round pick for them? That doesn’t make any sense.
As SB said, please stop posting FanPosts when it’s clear you don’t know the first thing about football, college or pro. The talent level in college football is not thinning out. And the NFL isn’t expanding any time soon, and even if it did announce an expansion team tomorrow it would be a few years before the team started playing anyways, so that’s going to have absolutely no affect on our draft process or anything else.
Please stop doing this. You’re not funny.
I actually like this post in the sense that it is a good place to list all of the draft picks we have for next year, so maybe we can turn this into a mini draft discussion.
Moon, you are missing the other pick we got in the Kellen Winslow deal, so we have 11 in total.
I’ll start the draft discussion.
Eric Berry. Boom.
Eh, I guess I wouldn’t mind having a draft discussion now but it’s way too early to get serious about it. We can find out a lot about our team over the next 12 games that will help us see what our needs are (although some are obvious to see now) and there is still penty of time for the stock of college players to rise or fall.
But, it’s always fun to talk draft (and what else do we have to look forward to?) so why not. I just don’t think the comment he added were worthwhile.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 9, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Solomon Elimimian, Hawaii Warriors career tackles record holder, transform from outside linebacker to safety. Boom. Boom. Shoot em down.
I think he would be better at freaky flanker, but thats just my opinion.
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 9, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Suh is another defensive player I’d consider in the top 5, but we’d have to turn him loose to have it be worth it (he is a pass rushing 4-3 DT, or a pass rushing 3-4 DE IMO). He also tore it up against your Tigers last night.
But seriously, stop encouraging him.
I don’t mind when he posts comments in threads, it was the onslaught of new incomprehensible fanposts that were getting annoying to me.
I agree with talonk that this fanpost was a deletion of 2 paragraphs away from being a good contribution.
Well, if you take away the last two paragraphs then all he did was list the picks we have in next year’s draft. Any one of us could have made that list in about 2 minutes so it’s not like he’s adding any real analysis.
Like I said before, I think it is reasonable to discuss some of the exciting college prospects and note the number of picks we have accumulated.
Oh, yeah, that’s fine with me too. I never mean to imply that we couldn’t. I was just pointing out that if you take away the last two paragraphs, as you said, then the post is just a list of our draft picks, so calling that a “good” contribution only shows how low the bar has been set for moooncamping’s posts.
Buckeye Brad, consistency does not divert from a lack of intelligence. What makes you think, you´re so well received. You offer absolutely nothing exciting to this forum. You are so run of the mill, it´s disconcerting.
Wow….you just called me stupid AND boring. The double-whammy!!
At least the comments I make are actually relevant to the game of football. I’m certainly no genius, but do you really want to poll the members of this blog to see which of us is more well-received? If you think you’d win that contest then you’re even more delusional than I thought.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 12, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s a fantastic player, but our safety play has been pretty solid this year, at least in my estimation. This delves into the talent vs. need discussion.
Depending on the quarterback situation, which seems like an eternal problem with the Browns, Sam Bradford is a very real option right now.
When you dont have a good team built, you should usually draft BAP.
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 9, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
if this season ends a bit more optimistically than it’s begun, i’d love to see brandon spikes wearing the orange and brown w/ a low-double-digits pick in the first round (although, all signs point to a single-digits pick, of course)
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 12, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Brandon Spikes is a BA. I just really, really dislike the Gators.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 12, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
DB’s would be nice. We need Safety help and help at CB.
Outside Linebacker is a need, but not necessarily a priority.
I’d also like to see the Browns take a legitimate goal line back (ala Leron McLain) somewhere in the middle rounds.
Defense, let’s load up. That’s what I say.
Also would be okay with right side of line help, and a stud RB.
Agreed, Mangini ignored defense in the early rounds for Mack and WRs. We need to do the opposite in 2010. First three picks on defense. (Barring any really really good standout that slid to us.)
It’s hard to speculate this early with so many variables.
Rey Maualuga would be nice right now
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by BornInThePound on Oct 9, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I was never a Maualuga fan, but at least he’d make the roster. Robo is starting to look like a missed pick
It’s been 5 games. Wide receivers almost always take time to get adjusted to the NFL before the play well. it’s far too early to make judgemens on him.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 14, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
He doesn’t get enough playing time to truely judge his talent cough Crennelitis cough
by North Coast Flea on Oct 16, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
you’re suggesting we go after a DB released by the team with the worst pass defense in the league?
diabolical!
You are reading my signature.
We picked up Twautrein, who was cut by team with the worst O-line in the league!
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 9, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Or a benchwarmer for Harrison’s butt when he gets cold.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 9, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think a goal-line back is important enough to use a draft pick on for just that position. Now, I’m all for getting a good running back but he would need to be a good well-rounded back, not just for use at the goal line.
Assuming (really hoping) we use our 1st round pick for defense, 2010 stock of great RBs (Royster, Dwyer, Spitler, Best) will likely be gone after the 1st round, but if not I’d gladly take anyone of them.
Obviously it’s ridiculously early, and this all just speculation, though.
Im not sold on Royster. I dont see anything special about him on film.
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 9, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think he’ll be gone in the first, and I certainly wouldn’t automatically lump him in with the “great” RBs of this draft.
The very early projections that I took a look at did indeed lump him in among the top RB prospects for 2010.
But again, it is still early.
I might be making my second mock of the year, so if you want to see just head over to Mockingthedraft.
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 13, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Im telling you guys. Ryan Matthews is the running back we should look at. Have any of you all seen film on him?
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 9, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i watched him rip 3 60+ yard TD runs against bosie state. that was nuts. from that performance, i can get behind looking at him more seriously. why did i think he’s a freshman, though?
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 12, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t mind one of those 6th rounders becoming a goal line back. But before that, I’ll pass on the goal line only back.
Not So Fast My Friend ...
Would not rule that kid out of the first round. Tremendous athlete and leader – and remember BQ went in the first round.
Would not rule that kid out of the first round. Tremendous athlete and leader
So was Tommie Frazier.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 14, 2009 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Tim Tebow is nothing at all like Brady Quinn. Quinn played in a pro-style offense at Notre Dame; Tebow plays in a gimmick offense that is nothing like what is run in the NFL.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 14, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
The same scheme that produced quarterback great Alex Smith.
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 14, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, Tebow probably makes more plays with his legs than his arm, his mechanics aren’t all that great, and neither is his accuracy.
Quinn’s mechanics were much better, his accuracy was spot on when he had the strike zone, and erratic when he lost it (just like now).
tebow’s accuracy is actually out of sight.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 14, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean, like he throws is so far off target, nobody can see it?
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 15, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
he misses his targets so badly that he only completes 66% of his passes to the innocent bystanders…
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 15, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Tebow then nurses these innocent bystanders back to health with his tears and smile.
He then circumcises them and sends them on their way.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 15, 2009 3:37 AM EDT up reply actions
If anything, Tebow will be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd as a running back. (Seriously)
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 14, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d also like to see the Browns take a legitimate goal line back (ala Leron McLain) somewhere in the middle rounds.
Somewhere Tommy Vardell just cashed another check.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 9, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
What part of ‘middle rounds’ did you not understand. Of course you don’t take a goal line / short yardage back early in the draft…but in the fourth or fifth round? Sure. If he’s near the top of the board and can help the team gain first downs and punch it in on the goal line, why not?
McClain has been a solid contributor for the Ravens, and I’m pretty sure that the Giants are glad they wasted a fourth round pick on Brandon Jacobs.
Speaking of Outside Linebackers, Quentin Groves was just demoted to third string in Jacksonville. I haven’t seen him play since he’s been in the league, but I know that he was a highly regarded 3-4 ‘tweener’ coming out of college a couple of years ago, and someone whom the Browns were said to be very interested in.
there are a couple of great safties coming out in this draft, but I think we need to stick with the old best-player-on-the-board routine.
And no QB’s until we upgrade at right tackle!
Even you’re not this stupid. He was terrible.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 9, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather have Taylor Mays then Berry. Mays is a physical freak, while I think alot of Berry’s value comes from his kick returns, and we prolly have the best returner in the NFL.
Do you play ultimate in Cleveland? I might know you.
I don’t think much of Berry’s value comes from kickoff returns. The kid is just an outstanding defensive back. He is Ed Reed II.
Berry’s value does NOT come from kick returns. You are Al Davis
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 9, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m a mays over berry guy, but berry’s value has nothing to do with his kick returns.
berry is ed reed, mays is ronnie lott. depends on what you need.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 12, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
You still do have to admit that Mays would be a riskier pick. I would rather take Berry, but Im not the FO.
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 12, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I would be willing to bet the FO would take Berry over Mays. He’s got “just a football player” written all over him. He seems to be a pretty smart kid, and he loves the game. Sounds like Mangini to me.
Do doubt Mays is a physical freak, but I don’t see our FO putting the emphasis on getting that type of guy.
Did anyone see that Suh on Nebraska last night? He was an absolute animal. I hate taking DTs in the first round because it might be the most boring position to draft, but he was dominant.
How in the heck did Mizzou let Nebraska back in the game? The Huskers did nothing offensively the entire first half . . . what happened?
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 9, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Suh happened. 3 TDs in the first 5 minutes of the 4th Quarter. The first two were set up by INT’s, one by Suh.
I agree with Dorn, Suh was incredible. He took over that game. 300 lbs and athletic as hell. Wonder where he is projected to go.
I’ve seen him project #1 in cases where they think the first pick is going to someone who doesn’t need a QB (Detroit for example). He is usually top 5.
Brownsyup
I’ve noticed the same thing. So like pretty much always, it’ll entirely depend on our draft position, and about a hundred other factors between now and the draft, but I like Suh if we have pick #1 or 2, maybe 3. Personally, right now, I think he’d be picked by then.
Even if we don’t get one of those top 5 spots, we have extra picks to trade up if we find a willing partner. The Rams or Tampa maybe? They have a lot of needs.
Brownsyup
This team has way too many needs to be trading up. We need to trade down if anything.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 9, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I might trade up to get in to the 2nd round again after our first pick there, depending on who is still out there. Far too early to think about, though.
I agree that more picks > less picks, in general.
Trade down in the first to trade up in the second?
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 10, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Lack of focus in the fourth quarter. Gabbert telegraphed passes, and made careless throws that were picked. Given how the defense was playing, they should have made absolutely 100% not to turn the ball over. They did the opposite.
The defense also should have not allowed anyone over the top for Nebraska’s first TD, and instead they tried to jump a slant route. Inexplicable.
Nebraska’s O was doing nothing until Mizzou gave them the chance.
Nebraska’s defense is excellent, but their offense is rough. Mizzou’s defense is incredibly simplistic- they played variations on two-deep coverage almost the entire game. It took Nebraska three quarters to get their quarterback confident enough to make the throws needed to split the safeties, but when the QB got it, he really got it.
I didn’t see anything impressive from Nebraska on O, just some poor defense from Missouri down the stretch.
I really enjoyed how they closed the game out. That long run by the tailback (his name escapes me) that came from a double-tight, double-wingback formations was drawn up really well. Mizzou stayed in base personnel which meant 4 linemen, 3 backers, and 4 defensive backs. Nebraska ran a zone stretch play and simply out-blocked Mizzou. It was a bad decision by the defensive coordinator to not match big with big, and I’m not quite sure why he didn’t sub out more players. It was essentially goal line offense vs. normal personnel which is obviously a mismatch in the running game.
I think it is a bit early for specific draft discussion as we really don’t know specific needs at this point. Will Harrison pan out to be a decent RB? Will our new wide receivers break out, be adequate, be busts? Will we need a QB? (this one just hurts my head). One thing in a general sense that I like is that the picks are like currency. You can package them up for a big trade acquisition or a higher pick if you see something you like. Lots of options having this many picks and that is good.
So it pains me to talk about the draft after 4 games but what the heck…
I like RB C. J. Spiller. Even though he is smallish that speed and acceleration is just unbelievable.
DB Eric Berry… hard to find fault with that one and there is no doubt this will be a need.
Suh is a beast but I don’t see it as a particular need unless Sean Rogers ditches us.
Here is a good later round pick up is you want a dark horse… RB Toby Gerhart. This guy is a bruiser who would make an awesome short-yardage, red zone threat. If you want to be entertained, take a look at some of his highlights on youtube.
/agree with the idea of building up the defense first.
Brownsyup
I like Gerhart, but he iwll likely require a 3rd or 4th rounder.
Suh would be a DE in our defense.
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 9, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
moon … this post was halfway discernable until your last two paragraphs. If you strike them off, a credible post for once from you.
In regards to dealing BQ or DA. I suspect one of them will get dealt in the offseason. I can’t imagine Mangini keeping both for next year. However, I seriously doubt either of them gets dealt during this season since there are only 2 more weeks til the deadline (something you should know). Unless the Raiders, Panthers, etc do something stupid and offer us a crazy package in the next two weeks (which I doubt), both will be here for the rest of this season.
And no, expansion is not happening anytime soon. There are currently 8 divisions of 4 teams each. A perfect number. No way they add 2 teams to that mix and screw up the symmetry. Also, as it is there are 2-3 teams that probably need to move, that would probably occur first before any expansion happenned.
Good retort, except for the first paragraph.
I would expect Mangini to bench both. I bet it won´t take long until they find a new home.
The number is 8 expansion teams. There are large demographics starving for a team of their own. This is a given, the matter is how to explain it.
There is no way there would be an expansion of 8 teams, at least all at once.
Name 8 markets that could support a team. I’ll give you LA, but where are the other 7 markets going to come from? Look at the poor support alrready in Detroit, Jacksonville, Oakland, etc.
You are off your rocker on this one moon.
LA can’t even support a team. They may really want the Raiders and Rams back. But they won’t make any money from them. I’ve heard this countless times. LA might have the money, but not the location.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 12, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
it’s actually the reverse. LA has the location (city of industry approved an $800mm project), but where’s the money coming from? the state is bankrupt, for one.
more importantly, LA doesn’t care. the nfl cares much more about having a team in LA than LA cares about having a team.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 12, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
And I’d like Portland to have one so the damn Patriots can’t include at least 5 states under their name. It’s ridiculous.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 12, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, moon is completely insane on this one. first, there’s no chance the NFL would ever go to 40 teams. just zero chance. that’s stupid.
second, i’d be interested to hear moon’s economic treatise covering where the franchise fees would emanate from to launch 8 new franchises (at a cool $500mm+ per team). in addition, where would those new owners source financing to build $500mm+ stadiums when every state in the country is facing massive budget shortfalls.
in short, no chance.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 12, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Name 8 markets that could support a team.
London, Toronto, Vancouver, San Juan, Anaheim, Mexico city, Portland, San Antonio.
Why is there so much hate against Portland, Maine? They hold an up tier NBA team. Or have I actually always been thinking of the wrong Portland?
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 12, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
There are no professional sports team in Portland, Maine (or anywhere else in Maine, actually). The Trail Blazers play in Portland, Oregon.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 12, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way, Portland, Oregon is the 29th largest city in the US with a population of 557,706. Portland, Maine has a population of 62,651 — big difference.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 12, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh wow. I feel so wronged. I guess the Trail Blazers make sense to Oregan because of Lewis and Clark? Wow. Why didn’t that ever click?
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 12, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You also might have noticed that when the Cavs play at Portland the game starts at 10 or 10:30 ET, which is a clue that it’s on the west coast.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 12, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve always known that for football. But for some reason when I watch the Cavs at Portland, I never notice the time.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 13, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions
London Red Coats, Toronto Blizzard, San Juan Crabbers (Name of their B-Ball team), Anaheim Beach Bums, Mexico City Smoggers, Portland Grizzlies, San Antonio Defenders.
By the way, I need to get out of my house more.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 12, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
London? You mean you would make 9 teams pay all the extra money to go to England every year?
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 12, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
London – eight cross Atlantic flights for NFL teams and a minimum 4 cross Atlantic flights for the London team … not happening.
Toronto – I could see the Buffalo franchise moving there, but to have both Buffalo and Toronto, not going to happen. Also, the Argonauts would have to move. No way a CFL and NFL franchise co-exist in same city.
Vancouver, Canada I assume – They did not hold onto their basketball franchise (Grizzlies) and the BC Lions would have to move like Toronto
San Juan – the humidity alone would kill the first two months of the season, but I like this idea somewhat.
Anaheim – LA (City of Industry) gets first crack as they have an approved stadium to be built. The Big A (Edison Field) is not a good football venue.
Mexico City – no “football” team would replace any futbol squad in Mexico City. Also,if you think Denver has a home field edge, just wait to tray and play NFL in that mile high air, not only is it higher than Denver, but it is has worse polution problems.
Portland OR – would love to see this, but they are having trouble funding an MLS team and moving their AAA baseball team. No way they could handle an NFL franchgise at this time.
San Antonio – a replacement for Houston, I could live with.
In all honesty, if you wanted to actually expand by 8 NFL teams, the easiest way would to absorb the 8 CFL franchises and move them into open markets I guess, but that would cause a huge relocation issues, a total reorganization of the Divisons/conferences and scheduling problems as well.
You can’t have an NFL franchise in both Louisville and Cincy. Not enough people in those areas to support two teams.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 12, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re from two different states though. I mean they are close but still. We’re just trying to prove we can find 8 large enough cities to hold a franchise. Don’t kill the kid’s dreams.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 12, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Different states doesn’t matter; there are many Bengals fans in Kentucky. Cincy is a small enough market as it is without taking away a large portion of their fans.
I know there was talk of moving an NBA team to Lousiville and that might have worked — there’s no NBA team in Cincy and Kentuckians love basketball, anyways. I think it was when the Grizzlies were moving from Vancouver.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 12, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
For comparison:
The Cleveland and Cincinnati Metropolitan Areas are roughly the same (2,250,871 vs. 2,155,137).
The Louisville Metro Area is much smaller (1,268,323).
Buffalo is 198 miles from Cleveland while Louisville is 96 miles from Cincinnati.
by golanbatrac on Oct 12, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh would be more significant than Buffalo.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 13, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree. I’m suprised two franchises can actually survive in such close perimeters. But I guess it was nothing compared to the Rams and Raiders… but those did end up moving.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 13, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course, the Rams and Raiders were both in LA. That area can definitely support two pro teams (if they care about pro football in LA).
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 13, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s all about market size. Also, the area between Cleveland and Pittsburgh (and the rest of Ohio and western PA) is the epicenter of all football. At every level, football is a way of life in that part of a country and has been for a very long time. Moreso than anywhere else in the country.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 13, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I was looking for the closest NFL city to Cleveland. Pittsburgh is a lot closer to Cleveland (115 miles) than Buffalo, but it always seems to take longer to get there.
by golanbatrac on Oct 13, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Thats because there is always a stiff wind coming from Pittsburgh, because they blow!
It’s Steeler week Baby! I’m bringing them all outta the bag!
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 13, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually think there are enough people
Many people in the Louisville area are Cincy fans, but seeing as how most Bengals fans are frontrunning bandwagon fans they would easily switch their allegiances. Also, there are quite a few fans of the Colts and Titans in the area.
The bigger problem as I see it, would be that many here love their college sports. I think PJCS is expanding to 60,000+ and Commonwealth Stadium in Lexington already holds more than that.
Those two fanbases can exist an hour away from each other without overlap and I definitely think there would not be a problem between Louisville and Cincy as far as having enough fans. The question would be if the fans would support the team and if the city could actually get the support to start any movement on it.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
No, I’m sorry, there is no way Cincy and Lousiville would both support a team. Cincy is a small market as it is, and adding another team one hour away would hurt them even more. Not to mention the proximity to Indianapolis, as you said. It’s just not feasible that many teams close together without a huge population center.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 14, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Louisville is the 43rd largest metro area in the country, right around Buffalo and Jacksonville (who both are struggling with finances and filling their stadium, and Buffalo attracts some fans from the Toronto area). They would have enough trouble supporting a team without considering the fact that there is already a team one hour away in Cincy which relies heavily on fans and businesses in Kentucky for their finances.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 14, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok you win
I’m just stating that their will be two stadiums in the state of KY an hour apart which both will hold 60,000+. Also in the state of KY there are Colts and Titans fans to go with the Bengals fans. Basically it’s a state that has three close teams, but no real team. I’m not saying that the state would or could support an NFL team, but I am saying it would be more contingent on the state of KY and not just the city of Louisville.
Also, I don’t like the Bengals so I could care less if they lose money, that would actually make me happy. To know that an NFL team in Louisville put the Bengals out of business. <—-this is a joke, but not really, it would probably put a smile on my face.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
Hey
I would love to have an NFL team here in Louisville. Then we could possibly fill our newly expanding stadium.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
NFL map of the USA:
Map of the USA:
Just two maps for better visualization.
The team free corridor around the Seattle Seahawks alone is unbelievable.
You have to look at the population centers — that’s what matters. They’re not going to put a team in Montana or Idaho when not many people live there. You need to look at a map of population density compared to the NFL teams to get a better picture.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 14, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Why are the Raiders near LA?
Also, where the heck would you put a team near Seattle? Portland? I don’t see it.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 14, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
There is close to nothing in Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho. I’ve been up there, and there are not enough people to support an NFL franchise there.
There are strategies to maximize fan attendance.
Such as building smaller stadiums, seating somewhere between 30000 and 40000 people.
Take a state like Wyoming, it borders 6 states. Assuming people go to the trouble of traveling, and if you could make it worth their while, it could be worth it.
Some states merge in one point, such as northwest Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado and Kansas are really close, how about a joint venture?
Also, if you look at attendances in states like Nebraska or Iowa, if you make it a state affair rather than a city affair, they might come.
A single Canadian team or a single South American team, would garner enough interest, to maximize potential.
Like someone said, you have one team representing New England. Boston could support a team.
Someone mentioned London. It´s feasible if they or other European countries could field a team in the USA. How about a European or Asian Allstar team?
We have Rush Limbaugh vying for a team. He´s decidedly Republican. There are other interest groups, or even companies and corporations that could afford a franchise.
I´ll stop here, or I´ll get more and more far out.
by mooncamping on Oct 16, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Wyoming has 532,000 people. That’s less than Louisville, Oklahoma City, Tuscon, Portland, Las Vegas, and a bunch of other cities who don’t have an NFL team. There is no way that Wyoming can support a team, even if you got people to drive from all over the state. And what makes you think people are going to drive 3 hours from the corner of Iowa or Wyoming or Nebraska ten times a year to attend their home games, anyways? Calling the team “Iowa” instead of “Des Moines” or whatever doesn’t mean you’re going to get people from all over the state going to those games.
The Patriots are a Boston team. Just because they’re called “New England” doesn’t change that fact.
Finally . . . . how is building smaller stadiums going to maximize fan attendance?
I´ll stop here, or I´ll get more and more far out.
I didn’t think that was possible.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 16, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Well typically, you would expect higher ticket prices.
But maybe the state could help, by building cheaper. And the team could use a smaller budget. TV contracts are worth a lot.
Giving so many adults something good to do on weekends, and the pride such a team can generate, may justify novel approaches.
Wherever people gather, business and communication, lead to better relations. The NFL would have to see what it´s worth to prospective locations and the potential demographic.
There are strategies to maximize fan attendance.
Such as building smaller stadiums, seating somewhere between 30000 and 40000 people
Because that is what the NFL wants, smaller stadiums.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 16, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
There are smaller colleges and universities, with smaller stadiums and smaller attendance, that are unsurpassed in terms of excitement and fan dedication.
What are people worth in comparison to revenue? What is the added enthusiasm and excitement worth?
What is the added enthusiasm and excitement worth?
To the NFL? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 17, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you honestly think that owners are going to favor “fan enthusiasm and excitement” over making money? That’s highly doubtful.
The bottom line is that the NFL is NOT going to put teams in Wyoming or Montana or anywhere else where not many people live. I don’t know why we’re even having this dicussion.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 17, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
What does Rush have to do with anything else you are talking about?
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 16, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, if they get any more, it will break off and float back to the Netherlands.
by mooncamping on Oct 16, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Quinn and Anderson alone, and I suggest we transfer them before not during the draft, are worth a first round pick each at least.
Maybe, Maybe, after 2007. There is no freaking way we are getting a second rounder for Quinn or DA let alone a first now.
And by the term transfer you have to be a major soccer fan. Are we taking bets on what country Moon is from? I could drop some coin on this. I am thinking Scotland.
If I were a betting man, I’d say that he’s German. UK keyboards don’t usually include forward ticks.
In truth, I found out some information on mooncamping through my own search, but don’t think it is fair to post it on this forum.
Yeah, I don’t know what it matters, really. I enjoy his posts. Don’t know why anyone would want to run him off, or give him a hard time.
The bit with the oddball apostrophes is interesting, though. I still say he’s German.
by golanbatrac on Oct 13, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Google is a powerful thing, borderline invasion of privacy. But than again, any information it finds is generally info you’ve provided at an earlier time at some point. These days that info never goes away, often years later.
You have to be careful.
My intent was to figure out if he had been messing with us this whole time, but I am pretty certain that he is genuine.
I still think it’s Rufio or that he’s foreign. That 11 fullback photoshopped picture was a good diversion.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 13, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder Why doent everyone get mad at you for it?
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 13, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe because I didn’t have conversations with myself?
by golanbatrac on Oct 13, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I havent done anything after the second time, and I admit it was a fail.
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 14, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a huge fail. And I like how Rufio is making up examples.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 14, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, just that there was a second attempt at you talking to yourself. It was a weak attepmt at a joke.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 16, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I will actually confess that the second time I wasnt planning on making a joke.
I was mad about something(I forgot what), so I said I was gonna take a break from the site. I didnt really though, but I just didnt think before I posted. Then everyone was mad at me so I tried turning it into a joke.
I know That doesnt make it any better but I just felt like saying.
And I know SpecialBrownie will hate me no matter what.
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 16, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
How narrow minded are you?
What makes you so intent to prove I´m not American?
Geez, join the Gestapo, why don´t you.
Moon, if you are in fact not American, it is not a big deal, there are Browns fans all over the globe.
nobody is being narrow-minded. Some of your posts are just so unique that we wonder if there is a foreign influence in your prospective. Your vocabulary, punctuation and writing style seem to support this.
Really, it is innocent curiosity.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 14, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
There is a “major league” for rugby (though I don’t know if the teams actually play each other) and unless it’s football being played with feet, they’re not super interested.
American football is a novelty. I threw a Super Bowl party last year, and it consisted of 80% Americans that wanted to watch the commercials, 15% Romanians and 5% other.
by Chief WaDrew on Oct 10, 2009 5:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey, the Super Bowl was incredible lest year, despite the fact that my most despised NFL team won. Hell, the year prior it was even better! Possibly one of the greatest Super Bowls of all-time. Just because it happens to be the most watched televised event every single year, advertisers decide to make their commercials less annoying than usual.
I completely agree. Both games were nothing short of amazing. It’s just that the last two places I have been for the Super Bowl the locals weren’t interested in the game. It was primarily Americans.
by Chief WaDrew on Oct 10, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I will listen to anything with an open mind at least once. Everything starts out as a crazy idea.
But yours hasn’t landed. Your ideas of changing everyones position and running insane versions of offense and defense is just that. Insane.
So far you want Alex Mack as a guard even though he is now thriving at center. You want FB’s everywhere. You want Brett Ratliff as our QB, amongst a laundry list of many other odd ideas.
So until you have a new, fresh, interesting idea about the Browns, for the love of God, no more fanposts.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 12, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
His “worst” repetitive statement is that Safeties/LBs should be corners, and corners should be safeties.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
No, I think his fill our roster with fullbacks idea is even worse.
by North Coast Flea on Oct 17, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Taylor Mays ==== Roy Williams.
Eric Berry = Ed Reed.
This is how I see the comparison. Watching Taylor Mays during the Ohio State game scared me away from him forever. He has no change-of-direction skills whatsoever. Fast as a cheetah in a straight line, but when he goes up against a guy with some wiggle he really struggles.
I agree. Mays is just a physical freak. And safety if the one position on the field where you’re 40 speed and bench press number’s mean absolutely nothing. Its all about instinct and reading plays. I know I love Mays for his athleticism but I’d rather pass him up on Draft day in the first round.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 9, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
What about Taylor Mays at OLB in a 4-3? I’m not saying that the Browns do it, but I think that Roy Williams would have had a much better career at OLB.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 9, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
You know what that kinda makes sense. He would have to bulk up another 15-20 pounds
by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 9, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting. But I’d only draft him as a OLB project in the 3rd round or so. he’ll be gone by then.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 10, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I have always though of that. In the right scheme he could be a good weakside LB.
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 10, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Another factor is, there will be expansion teams, probably soon.
Holy crap, how did I miss this? Maybe he is a drunk Roger Goodell?
I haven’t been around the last couple weeks, what the hell happened to mooncamping telling us to take this site and shove it?
by North Coast Flea on Oct 11, 2009 4:19 PM EDT reply actions
You guys are missing the point.
The predicament is now.
Due to losing, our player stock is losing value, except for discerning front offices around the league.
The value of our picks in 2010 is rising per round, due to our prognosticated decline. If we concur, and therefor lose, those picks look more attractive to everyone, including ourselves. Every time we force a win, the mediocre players on our roster win, while the quality of our picks declines. It´s either win/lose or lose/win.
You could also assume, that our plight would seem like a more certain fate to other franchises, and that they will shuttle the good players around our high picks to minimize the quality we can procure with so many top picks in every round.
What I´m saying is, if we don´t act now, they can finish us strategically. We are at everyones mercy, the noose is tightening.
I´d rather sell some guys at a premium, while their value is low due to losing, than to continue to be reactionary. There are players more suited to our 3-4 out there, and there are quarterbacks available, that register better with the Karma patrol, and maybe even our wallet.
Gosh, if I had realized Jamal Lewis hasn´t had a 100 yard game, and seeing him needing 31 carries to break the barrier in the last game, I would have been more critical. All the while, guys that are awesome, such as Leonard Weaver and Brian Leonard, even Owen Schmitt, are barely featuring with their current franchises.
You can make an offer for a player at all times. All it takes for a trade is consent.
I’m going to ignore the grandiose broad themes you attempt and fail to convey. I’ll just go with the specific flaws that make it impossible to really have a dialogue with you:
I´d rather sell some guys at a premium, while their value is low due to losing
This makes no sense. You are either selling low, generally a bad idea, or selling high, generally a good idea.
You can make an offer for a player at all times. All it takes for a trade is consent.
No you can’t. There is a trade deadline in the National Football League.
All the while, guys that are awesome, such as Leonard Weaver and Brian Leonard, even Owen Schmitt, are barely featuring with their current franchises.
The reason that they are barely used is because the FB is a dying position in football. You are the only person who does not grasp this. Guessing off the top of my head I would assume that 50% of the NFL doesn’t even have a true FB on their roster.
IMO, the 90’s was the start of a new brand of offense in football. The spread has changed everything about football. The spread, has for the most part, killed the FB. It would not shock me in the least that in 10 years, the NFL will have 0 true Lorenzo Neal type FB’s.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 12, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Almost 100% of what you say makes no sense.
by rufio on Oct 12, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Mini update on the Braylon conditional pick:
According to Michael Smith of ESPN, Braylon needs to catch 50 balls for the Jets for us to get a 2nd instead of a 3rd. After the 5 catch performance against the Dolphins, Braylon would need 45 catches over the last 11 games.
Sam Bradford has hurt his shoulder again in the Red River rivalry.
How much does he wish he went in last years draft?
The amount of money he has lost is sad. Fifty Million easy.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 17, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Bradford in round 2 anyone?
Not going to happen. There is way too much time between now and the draft for him to heal and make up from the injuries.
Hell, even if it did hurt Bradford’s draft stock (unlikely IMO), he could just stay another year OU, he’s only a RS junior.
At this point in time he needs to cut his losses. Have the surgery and declare.
Train for the combine.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 17, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re probably right, but he does have options though. And loyalty.
Ultimately, I still think he’ll be in the draft, and be the first QB taken early in the first round. I don’t think his stock is hurt that much.
I would agree but that is his throwing shoulder.
He would need to show that it is 100% before the draft. That beng said, it only takes one team to fall in love.
Right Mr. Heyward-Bey? (P.S. I would be willing to wager a decent amount of money that even with Crabtree missing 1/3rd of this season, he will finish with more catches the DHB.)
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 17, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
How bout them Boiler-Makers!
sorry I couldnt resist
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 17, 2009 5:21 PM EDT reply actions
When is the last time ND won a bowl game? Ha, when is the last time ND when to a bowl game? Your head coach is massive joke. Your team is in utter shambles and won’t be going anywhere positive in the near future.
You should probably shouldn’t be an admitted ND fan if your start talking, in the wrong thread I might add.
Yea, I shouldnt start talking because ND played sooo bad today.
People cant have fun with football anymore, it seems
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 17, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I can take it. You are the one who got mad
by TheRealSlimShady on Oct 17, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not a big Pryor fan. He looks more and more like the second coming of Steve Bellisari every week.
Much like Brady Quinn, he’s regressed this season. I watched him in the Spring Game and he was throwing the ball much better than last year. But he’s just not making smart decisions with the ball and he misses too many easy throws.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 17, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
We had this discussion on the fantasy football webpage.
He has been beyond brutal. The Defense should sue for child support.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 17, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Draft and Play Call Mindset
I would like to know what you think of this:
After the past two weeks of embarssing lack luster offense I believe the Browns should use their 1-3 rounds of the draft to beef up and get more speed in the trenches. Meaning they shpuld draft 2 more offensive lineman and a defensive lineman. They are pretty stout at linebacker.
My thinking on this is the Browns offense is based on the ground. If the ground game is good then the passing game will open up…we all know that, but if the ground game is not there then Anderson forces passes and makes mistakes. So lets beef up that O line with more picks like the ones we have gotten in the past 2 drafts. That would gives us 4 stout linemen that could open the holes for Lewis and Harrison. Also run Harrison and Lewis more outside versus all the time behind the tackles. That would spread the defesne out.. With the running going more spread, beefing up the O line making holes for the backs I believe you would then see a significant improvement in Anderson.
Fire away to all…What do you think?
Also, how do you all feel about bringing Kosar on as the Quarterbacks coach? I do not think he is interested but he does know Cleveland offense.
Kosar for quarterbacks coach is a great idea.
But why tab him, if Jim Zorn (former Seahawks QB, currently head coach of the Washington Redskins), may soon be available.
That doesn’t mean he knows how to coach quarterbacks, or that he knows anything about our current offensive system.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
how does he know the cleveland offense? this is a different offense than he ran, fyi…
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
You never ever ever ever get locked in to drafting a certain position or side of the ball before you are on the clock.
Take the best player available for your team, which to me means:
1. Take the guy with the most talent, while…
2. …factoring in who will be valuable to your team. This is based partly on:
a. Coaching philosophy: do you want to be a run-first team? Pass first? What do you want your defense to do? Do you favor physicality or speed if you have to choose? Who is in your division and what do they like to do? How much do your players need to recognize what the other team is doing? How smart do they need to be?
b. Team needs. What position, if improved, would help your team the most?
c. Inherent position value. A pro bowl QB is probably the most valuable position in sports. Factoring in coaching philosophy, what is the next most valuable (and on down the line)?
d. Are you a super bowl contender with one glaring hole in your depth chart? How much are you willing to reach or take a gamble on a player at that position?
You never know for sure who that best player for your team will be until you are on the clock. You can’t limit yourself to spending your first 3 picks on certain positions. At least at this point in time, there are plenty of holes on our roster, and we don’t have to worry about 2.d.
I think the University of California made a mistake by using Alex Mack as a center. Consequently he was designated center in the draft. He is more suited to guard. In fact, I think Fraley/Mack at guards is Pro Bowl caliber.
The weirdness that ensues however, is that we need to draft another center next year, if we move Mack to his more natural guard position. So you´re right, we need to draft more offensive line next year, I just hope we don´t get the wrong angle on it.
I would move the versatile Eric Steinbach to center. If not Rex Hadnot can fill in.
To me, it´s a point of emphasis. In my book, we have two great guards in Hank Fraley and Alex Mack. If Steinbach or Hadnot fail at center, though, the lack of a good center would become quite glaring. Hence the greater propensity to use the servicable Fraley and Mack at that position to look at least decent.
Why do you keep posting this nonsense over and over again? It doesn’t matter if you think Mack should be a guard, he’s been a center his whole life and he’s going to be a center for as long as he’s in Cleveland. Repeatedly posting that you think Mack should be moved to guard is a waste of time and space on this blog because it’s never going to happen. Alex Mack is a center, he’s always been a center, and he’ll always be a center.
If you want to start your own blog with these crazy ideas that’s fine, but please stop wasting our time with them.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 7:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Who are you to know all the ideas and facts…its a blog…you dont like it go somewhere else. Its people that have an open mind to differ ideas that lead to gains and victories. I do agree that Mack will stay at Center though.
so then what the hell is your point?
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 19, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
the point is you act like an asshole every time mooncamping makes a post. yes, they’re usually dumb ideas, but that doesn’t mean you have to tweak every time he shares them.
by notthatnoise on Oct 20, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
If Mooncamping posted his rambling thoughts every now and then, then I could see where you’re coming from.
But he posts moronic ideas 3 times a week and gives no basis for his arguments. I think everyone is tired of reading the same crap every week. He either needs to come up with some new crackpot ideas or start walking.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 20, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
“everyone is tired of reading the same crap every week”
is someone forcing you to read it?
by notthatnoise on Oct 20, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, that’s not how this site works. People can’t just post whatever insane ramblings they want and the rest of us are just supposed to ignore it. If you make a comment that is completely false or provide no evidence of your claim then you will be called on it. That’s not “being an asshole”, that’s having an intelligent discussion. This site is supposed to be a place for intelligent football discussion, and we’re not going to just ignore people who are idiots and hope they go away because then it grows and invites more ignorance.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 20, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree calling them on it is not “being an asshole” but i think you could tone it down a little. for the most part you do fine with it, but sometimes you simply reply that he’s dumb and should stop posting here. While i don’t necessarily disagree with you, you said yourself this site was supposed to be about intelligent football discussion, and sometimes you leave that out of your replies.
by notthatnoise on Oct 21, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand what you’re saying. I don’t think I’ve ever called him dumb — I might have said that he’s written something dumb, which is very different. I am just getting fed up with his constant useless posting, especially when he repeates the same ridiculous premises over and over again. We all know how he feels and there is no need to constantly repeat himself. I don’t mind differing opinions, of course, but most of his comments have no relation to actual football and that’s just annoying.
My point is that if he wants to post on this site he should make his comments relevant to the NFL and not some brand of football which is only played in his mind. It takes quite an ego to tell everyone else that they’re all wrong and he’s the only one in the world who knows the secrets to football, and I just don’t understand why he continues to be so full of himself. I wish he would stop thinking that he knows everything and start watching the game and trying to learn about it, and then I’m sure he would have many interesting comments to make.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 21, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I do agree that Mack will stay at Center though.
Which is exactly my point.
I know you’re new here, but this guy has been posting crazy stuff like this for months and it’s really annoying. Moving a guy out of position isn’t going to lead to any gains or victories. That would be like me posting that we should move Brady Quinn to running back or something — that’s never going to happen so why waste the time discussing it.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
This blog is a place for intelligent football discussion—something Brad, myself, and others value highly. If you say something—especially with such confidence—you need to be able to back it up.
Mooncamping has been stating that Mack should be a guard for a long time, and when someone challenges his reasoning, he has only responded with allegations that Mack’s butt is too big or that his torso isn’t long enough to play center.
I tend to think Cal made a great decision to play Mack at Center, where he was the best in the nation, a 1st round draft pick that brought prestige to the program, and blocked the hell out of anyone in front of him.
My point for the indivual above that ask me is not be close minded about someones idea. I do believe that Mack is a great center thats why I think the Browns need to draft a couple more lineman of his and Joe Thomas quality since the Browns offensive scheme is ground based.
Now I will admit I am out of touch with what is going on every Sunday with the Browns and during the week but I am working in Iraq as a government contractor and I have to worry about other issues that could cause me not to get home to my family. I look here to see what’s really going on what other Browns fans feel.
I know I am frustrated with the Browns inebt offensive performance!
My point for the indivual above that ask me is not be close minded about someones idea. I do believe that Mack is a great center thats why I think the Browns need to draft a couple more lineman of his and Joe Thomas quality since the Browns offensive scheme is ground based.
Now I will admit I am out of touch with what is going on every Sunday with the Browns and during the week but I am working in Iraq as a government contractor and I have to worry about other issues that could cause me not to get home to my family. I look here to see what’s really going on what other Browns fans feel.
I know I am frustrated with the Browns inebt offensive performance!
by brianprater on Oct 20, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
i agree that moon rarely has something intelligent to say, but that doesn’t mean brad needs to have a fit every time he posts something stupid. Why is it so hard to just ignore it?
by notthatnoise on Oct 20, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
to expand on that, brad has said multiple times that its a waste of time. Thats true, but only if you try discussing it. If you don’t read or respond to anything he posts its zero time wasted.
by notthatnoise on Oct 20, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I read everything posted to this site. Unless someone gets all “WTFmanginasucx!!!! weneedagoodQB2throdaballrightWHYCANTWEGETAWINNER!?!?!”
To consistently see ideas that have no basis in the game of American Football, physiological fact, claiming that NFL rules really aren’t actual rules, etc. is frustrating. ESPECIALLY when the person proclaiming such ideas as facts refuses to respond to counter arguments in a reasonable way.
Recently, moon has had a good/reasonable idea and posted comments that make some sense and actually responded to what others have to say. That’s fine. Claiming Mack will never be a Center and must play Guard when he is doing quite well at Center simply because his butt is too big or his torso is too short—without any evidence, fact, or reasonable hypothesis—is ridiculous and frustrating to read.
Geez Buckeye, could it be that you´re a bit sensitive to truth?
Could it be, that you want things that are wrong, to stay exactly that?
It doesn´t really matter to me if I´m wasting you´re time, Buckeye, but there may be people reading, who actually care about being able to affect positive change.
Stop acting like you´re goal tending for the fans.
You´re hellbent on defining things, regardless of reality.
I mean, I understand. You think you drafted a center, so you want it to be exactly that. Well, it´s not exactly that.
The scouts and reporters labeled this product wrong. Face facts.
If what you’re saying is true, of course one would want to rectify that. But it’s kind of hard to get behind a theory that lacks evidence and involves the statement:
The scouts and reporters labeled this product wrong. Face facts.
That’s an opinion, not a fact.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
I love how you think you’re right and everyone else in the world is wrong. If Mack’s high school coaches made him a center, and his college coaches recruited him play center and played him that position for four years, and the NFL scouts labeled him a center, and the Browns front office drafted him to be a center, and the Browns coaches made him the starting center, how can you possibly claim that everyone is wrong and he should be a guard? All of them — football professionals — are wrong, and you’re right?
You really have quite the ego.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not a fact, Moon, that’s your opinion.
Mack would make a decent guard because there really isn’t that big of a difference between C and G. The positioning is a little different, as are the responsibilities, but you still run block, pass block, pull, etc. It’s still football.
It might help our line, but only because it might spread our good linemen out more over the line.
No, Mack will make a great guard, but only a decent center.
If center isn´t different from guard, then why is it so hard to get a good one? Maybe it´s because it´s a undervalued position. They tried like hell to keep the prospective centers Wood and Unger out of the first rounds. The teams that got them did so by declaring they would use them as guards. The Browns did the opposite, they blundered into the first round, grandiosely declaring they got the best center in Mack. So, not only did they make a risky quality assessment, they also staked their reputation on supposedly cleverly trading out of the fifth overall pick all the way down to pick number 21, not trading down once but twice, affecting everyones draft prognostications.
If you look up average salaries per position more, recent publications designate every position separately. The individual designations tackle, guard and center are forgone in favor of the diplomatic term offensive line. This is a recent development. I know, because I did some research on it last year.
I found out then that offensive tackles make the most money on the line, and guards make more than centers. This data was accurate, but slightly skewed by astronomical salaries by certain teams for certain players, moves that may be more closely associated with cheating the cap, than actual player value.
These facts are further compounded, by the record salaries that are extended to high draft picks, which is a possible explanation why Mack and Unger were the first centers drafted in round one since 1983.
the fact remains, that on average tackles make the most money, while guards make more than centers. Even his Draddy trophy can´t prevent that slight in pay for Alex Mack.
Now, assuming most teams have two tackles and two guards to just one center, why is it that tackles and guards get more money? You would think that the rarer centers would be more coveted, and therefor receive a higher salary.
Maybe it relates to the style of play. The center is in the middle, and usually his motion is forward or backward, with less horizontal adjustments. Maybe he is less injury prone. And maybe he lasts longer, meaning his pay averages out to be more over the course of a career. This is of course speculation, but there must be factors in ascertaining the differences in average salaries.
your inane ramblings say nothing, quite literally, but they especially say nothing about why mack is a better guard than center. i suppose you offer no support for that position b/c there is no logical support for it.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 20, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
It doesn’t matter how you split your cap money up among positions as long as you get the most productivity out of your dollars.
Mangini knows he needs a good center to deal with Hampton and Ngata who we play twice a year. He knows that blocking the huge NTs in the AFC is a must if we want to make it to the playoffs. Having a great Center is instrumental in doing that.
Mack at Center will make us a better team than Mack at Guard. Its that simple.
They tried like hell to keep the prospective centers Wood and Unger out of the first rounds.
Who is “they”?
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 20, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks. Even worse, isn´t it?
I think Abe Elam is great. And Brett Ratliff is a good backup.
Barton is a good veteran presence for the linebackers.
Poteat is alright, but it´s a waste, considering he can´t displace anyone. And Bowens was obviously another puzzle piece for a possible 4-3 alignment.
Overall, it´s the type of posturing we don´t need in the draft. It´s also a bad mimicry of what everyone expects a Belichick disciple to do.
Everyone keeps using Sanchez as an example of what we missed out on. I could name several other players that would have been more beneficial, B.J. Raji not being the least of them.
Mack is already better than a “decent” center. He has been a great center at every level til now. Please support your claims.
Is it so hard to get a good guard? The Browns found Steinbach and Hadnot pretty easily. As well as aging centers (Fraley) and tackles (Tucker) in the last couple years alone. Please support your facts with links.
Who tried to keep prospective centers Wood and Unger out of the first round? Please support your facts with links.
Unger played Guard in high school and played LT his first two years at Oregon. He also played LT for 2 games as a senior. It is clear that he is a versitile player, and actually is listed as a backup C as well as starting G. Similarly, Wood played G and T and even TE in high school. These players play guard now because C is a more difficult position and requires the ability to make line calls and more in depth knowledge of the offense. This is in no way similar to Mack, who has played exclusively center his whole career. Note on the link this quote:
“Being a center, there’s a lot of thinking that’s involved,” says Mack. “Before the play, you get the play, you go to the line, you have to remember what the snap count is, you have to call out the front and what everyone’s assignment is, tell both the guards what they have to do and then I have to focus on what I have to do.”
Declaring they got a center doesn’t equal a blunder. You don’t have to take the Browns word on it, Mack was one of the best Centers in NCAA according to any respected observer in college football. Please backup your claims.
They traded down three times. Please get the facts correct.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 20, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Time will tell what? If you will start backing up your statements or that maybe you will start getting the facts right?
I provided you with links and quotes and repeatedly have asked you to do the same. Why do you refuse?
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 21, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
not trading down once but twice, affecting everyones draft prognostications.
Who gives a crap if we change Mel Kiper Jr’s draft board? This may be the dumbest reason I have eve heard for no trading down.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 20, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Mack would be better at Guard?
Intresting new idea.
What if we trade for other teams crappy fullbacks? And then we can move our LB’s to CB and move our WR’s to a new crazy position called Wacky Wide-out (Don’t love the name, I will let you come up with a better one.)
Keep the fresh ideas coming Moon, or should I call you the new Paul Brown?
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 19, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Not only are the ideas ridiculous, but he keeps repeating the same ones over and over and over again. That’s why it is so annoying.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
So you´re willing to stake your reputation on saying, Brian Leonard, Owen Schmitt, Rodney Ferguson and Brock Bolen are crappy fullbacks?
Not only are they not crappy fullbacks, but they were quite adept at carrying the rock on their respective college teams.
I think they will do very well. It´s not their fault, that the entire USA is being fooled into thinking single back is a viable formation for gaining yardage on the ground.
Buddy, have you taken a moment to stop and think that if everybody who plays, coaches, and scouts in the NFL thinks something is true than it probably is true? I still don’t get how you can think that you hold the secret to success in football which nobody else in the world knows about.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 20, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
So you´re willing to stake your reputation on saying, Brian Leonard, Owen Schmitt, Rodney Ferguson and Brock Bolen are crappy fullbacks?
Yes. Even if they were GREAT, they couldn’t turn this team around.
Not only are they not crappy fullbacks, but they were quite adept at carrying the rock on their respective college teams.
The same can be said for Eric Crouch, Tommie Frazier, Ron Dayne, Curtis Enis. I could go on forever. This is no longer college.
It´s not their fault, that the entire USA is being fooled into thinking single back is a viable formation for gaining yardage on the ground.
Congrats, you are smarter than allllll of football.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 20, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
My opinion is that right now we shouldn’t be making any draft decisions based off of the belief that DA is going to be the starting QB next year.
"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "
wow. I don’t know what to start with. Can I just say I disagree with everything you wrote?
In short, the either line is in a much better place than the LB unit. If you want to improve the running game, the team needs RBs more than they need two OLs. And if you are thinking balance, the passing game needs to get better. Its how you score points in the NFL. And the passing game sets up the run.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 19, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the first I’ve heard of it, and I don’t think it’s worth a FanShot so it seems appropriate here:
Condition on draft pick from Jets.
Per Grossi:
• The Jets’ third-round and fifth-round picks (Edwards trade). If Edwards finishes with 55 or more catches, the first choice improves to the second round.
Through 2 games with the Jets, Braylon has 8 catches. with 10 games remaining, Simple math tells you he needs 4.7 catches per game to escalate that pick to a 2nd rounder for us. Seeing as that he’s gone 5 and 3 in the first two games, i can only imagine (hope?) that he can catch 5/game the rest of the way once he’s more comfortable with Sanchez and the rest of the offense.
Chris, can we get a Braylon Catch Counter on the side of the DBN home page?
You are reading my signature.
Is that 55 catches total or just with the Jets? I am assuming that it is total.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 20, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow…thats a lot of posting. Well I am going to steer away from the gurad-center argument….I would like to know what everyone thinks the Browns should do to jump start their offense!
My family and I have a football pool and I am going to pick the Browns to win against the Packers Sunday. What do you all think about getting the Browns offense going? I think they need to run more outside off the ends versus behind the tackles all the time with either Harrison or Lewis. That will spread the defense and open the passing lanes up for Anderson. Then MAYBE the receives will hopefully be able to catch the passes!
i’m saying that by picking the Browns to beat the Packers, you’re giving the rest of your family in the pool free point ahead of you right off the bat.
You are reading my signature.
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