Post-Game Thread: Mistakes Are Plentiful Again Against Bears
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 1, 2009 4:39 PM EST
in General News
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PrintThe Cleveland Browns defense had one of its better efforts of the season. You could even make a case that it was the best called game by defensive coordinator Rob Ryan. On top of that, Jay Cutler didn't have a very good game, finishing with a 66.7 QB rating that included no touchdowns and an interception.
The outcome? A 30-6 loss to the Chicago Bears.
Halloween might have been yesterday, but our offensive players obviously felt like giving a few treats to the defense. The Browns had five turnovers, and here is what each of those turnovers led to:
- Anderson Picked in 1st Quarter: A 29-yard field goal by Robbie Gould
- Anderson Fumbled in 2nd Quarter: A 32-yard field goal by Robbie Gould
- Heiden Fumbled in 3rd Quarter: A 10-yard touchdown run by Matt Forte
- Massaquoi Fumbled in 4th Quarter: Turnover on downs at the 1-yard line
- Anderson Picked in 4th Quarter: Bears' Charles Tillman returns pick for 21-yard touchdown
Those plays resulted in 20 of the Bears 30 points. It's not that our offense is just bad; it's proving to be a liability to our defense. Then, after all five mistakes and weeks of the offense struggling, the Browns decided to throw Brady Quinn into the game. Seriously? The timing is just...ugh.
Credit to the Bears for getting the win, but I don't think I'd be too satisfied as a Bears fan. Against a team clicking on all cylinders, this game would've been a blowout before the end of the third quarter.
With the bye week coming up, we'll have plenty of time to evaluate what needs to change with this team, as well as all of the rumors of the position former Browns QB Bernie Kosar might hold.
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That about sums it about. With Daboll under threat I just hope they don’t try and bring Kosar in as OC.
Any good grizzled OCs on the market?
I really don’t see them hiring Kosar as OC. He has no coaching experience whatsoever. It takes much more to be an OC than just being a former QB.
It’s not the OC. It’s the complete lack of offensive talent. No QB, no good receivers, no good TEs (although Heiden isn’t bad), no good RBs. What do you want the OC to do with that?
there is talent to work with here. its not a lot, but its enough to put up more than 6 points a game.
I don’t disagree that we need a LOT more talent on offense. Problem is, what little talent we do have could actually be winning us some games. Yes, games, as in plural. I know that’s high hopes for us this season, but we have enough talent to do it.
We do not have enough talent on offense to make the playoffs, so that needs to change, too. Not much we can do about that on Nov. 1st, though.
Kosar may be the Browns’ President of Football Operations and Kokinis and Mangini will have to report to him.
Sorry Mangini, but you are about to loose some control of this team.
http://dawgscooper.blogspot.com/
Dawg Scooper: An Unofficial Cleveland Browns Source
While I think changes are needed, I am not sure what to make of Kosar. Browns fans love him, but there is little history to suggest he knows how to operate a football team.
I am a huge fan of Kosar then player. Other than that all I know is that he can drink almost any human under the table. So we got that going for us.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
And the bones in his nose are surprising resistant to dissolving…
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
Yea, pretty much my point. Fans clamor for Kosar to take a larger role with the team, but he is a big unknown.
Exactly right. I don’t know why so many fans think that a former player can step right in to a management role and be successful just because they were a good player. Just like those Indians fans who wanted Omar Vizquel to come back as player/manager.
And I don’t mean to bring up a guy’s personal life, but with all the problems he’s had it makes you wonder if he’s suitable to a management position in anything.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, I know most of the sane posters on this website have been preaching patience with Mangini, arguing that half a season is not near enough time to evaluate this staff. And up until now, I have generally agreed with these sentiments. But I think we are now reaching a point where the complete lack of competitiveness of the Browns this year is absolutely inexcusable. I’m not advocating firing Mangini after half a season, but if this team does not demonstrate drastic improvement in the second half of the year, I think Mangini should be ousted. Am I being rash? Maybe; but I just can’t stand to see this team look so pathetic week after week.
i think i a lot of spectator bias creeps into comments like these. as spectators, we like to see great offense, so when the offense sucks we tend to think the whole team stinks. This team is average or good in 2/3 of the phases of the game. The special teams is great and i think the defense is average. the problem is the offense is horrific. Mangini does not deserved to be fired at the end of the year, but brian daboll does.
We’ve discussed this many times. They get worn down in the second half because they’re on the field so much due to the offensive ineptitude. They also get put in bad positions because of turnovers by the offense. Look at how they played today — they played well, but the offense kept putting them in bad positions. I’m not saying the defense is great, because there certainly is room for improvement in some areas, but it’s not as bad as the numbers indicate.
the Browns are giving up 415 ypg this year. No team in the last 15 years (I could have gone farther) has given up this many yards per game.
How many teams in the last 15 years have had a QB with a sub 40 rating?
by golanbatrac on Nov 1, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Since DA and BQ have split time at QB, you’d have to combine their rating – which puts it in the 50s. There have been several teams with QB ratings in the 50s over the last decade:
2006 – Andrew Walter (OAK)
2004 – Kyle Orton (CHI)
2003 – Kordell Stewart (PIT… those were the days!)
2002 – Joey Harrington (DET)
Not to mention 2009: Jamarcus Russell, Jake Delhomme, Josh Johnson.
Bottom line: there is and always has been teams with terrible offenses, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the defense must historically suck as well.
Combining ratings doesn’t mean that you take an average of the two. Any combined rating would be weighted heavily toward Anderson’s abysmal numbers at this point, because he’s played more than Quinn.
Right. You’d have to do a weighted average. Although they’re both so bad that I doubtful it makes much of a difference.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 2, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
42.7 from ESPN stats
not positive it has yesterday’s stats in…
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 2, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Yes but how many of those yards came in the 2nd and 4th quarter when the D was absolutely gassed.
This is how bad the offense is playing: sometimes I wish Cribbs wouldn’t return punts for TDs because it means the defense has to get on the field AGAIN.
I wish Cribbs wouldn’t return punts for TDs because it means the defense has to get on the field AGAIN.
I never wish this. Cribbs doesn’t score, we don’t score.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
This has been the trend. Outside of that one offensive possession per game that is able to get them into FG range.
by Chief WaDrew on Nov 2, 2009 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
I also think the defense has been decent. Look at all the first halfs. He held Peterson, Benson, and Forte to pretty good yardage defensively. By the time halfway through the second half, the defense begins to break. Maybe, just maybe, because they are on the field 35 mins of the game. Just saying though.
I’m not advocating firing Mangini after half a season, but…
It sounds like you are…
As the saying goes, “If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas”. I’m hoping for the best and will wait until the end of the season to pass any judgments. “If this happens” or “If that happens” – I just don’t know what will happen. All I know is: when we put “ifs” on performance, balanced evaluations are lost.
Maybe Mangini should be fired at the end of the season. Maybe not. It is sure a lot easier making the decision at the end of the season rather than today.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
I hear ya’.
My dream right now is for Mangini to turn the team around and make the playoffs within the next couple years. I don’t give a flying rats tail whether he is a nice guy or not, but it sure would be awesome to have all of the knee-jerk reactionary sportswriters dishing on him to be put in their place.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
I agree with you. Though, I don’t expect to see any drastic improvement this year.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
He should be given the full year, but usually with new coaches, if you don’t see improvement in the second half of the first season, it’s just not going to happen. The Browns offense seems to be getting worse. There Are some teams in the second half that are as bad as us so I they can’t win at least half of them,mangimi has to go.
by HenryDawg on Nov 2, 2009 7:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Anderson's TDs for and against
So far this season, Anderson has two passing touchdowns.
Today he gave up an interception that led directly to a touchdown.
Question: How many other interception-touchdowns has Anderson thrown this season?
In other words, has Anderson thrown for more touchdowns this season for opponents than for his own team?
Only 1 (so far)
So far is seems that today’s interception-runback for a touchdown is the only one (so far) by Anderson this season.
Which means he only has one more touchdown for his own team than he has for his opponents.
Pitiful and pathetic performance for a “professional.”
he does have two rushing touchdowns.
also, to blame all of this on anderson is ridiculous. the whole offense is bad.
how many touchdowns does james harrison have? because i know he has a fumble returned for a touchdown. does that make him pitiful and pathetic? is he no longer a professional?
Yeah, but, and I think you would agree, Quinn should have just had all 16 games this year.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Not necessarily. He looked horrible in the first three games, then DA did move the ball well against Cincy so benching Quinn looked like the right move after that game. I agree it’s time to go back to Quinn, but I don’t think it’s fair to say he shouldn’t have been benched.
I agree Quinn didn’t look good in the 2.5 game leash he was given, but I think the switch to DA was kneejerk. Now we’ve got the same old DA we always knew we had, but we’re still left with unanswered questions about Quinn. At the QB position especially, I think this is a poor way to run a football team.
Also, I think a Minnesota, Denver, Baltimore start was going to be a tall order for anybody the Browns put under center. Quinn’s removal has done nothing to spark this offense, and it may have come at the price of draining the last remaining confidence Brady has.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
i actually think that brady may have more confidence in his next starts. he won’t be looking over his shoulder at DA because i doubt mangini will go back to DA. i think he’ll play better than he did at the beginning of the season.
That’s a good point, and I hope you’re right. It’s certainly not conducive to good QB play if he’s always looking over his shoulder, scared to make mistakes in fear of getting pulled. I think that may be what we were seeing early this year when Quinn refused to throw the ball downfield.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
I thought DA looked tense and extra-robotic today.
The pressure must have gotten to him.
I can’t blame him.
It might have been his last NFL start in his career.
I didn’t see the game, but the radio announcers said that there was a noticeable difference in DA’s outward confidence for this game. They mentioned that on the sideline he was almost always alone, sitting with his head down. How could this sequence not have taken a toll on him psychologically? The end result is that he is now basically a “toxic asset”, with virtually no trade value.
Would you say that if the Browns were 0-8 at this point?
You seem to be assuming that Quinn would have beaten Buffalo.
You are saying that you would stick with Quinn if he were 0-8, but you are ready to dump
DA, who is 1-4, which is slightly better than Quinn’s 0-3.
The bye week is a good time to make a switch but just switching QBs will not make that much difference. Mangini is going to have to change a lot more than that.
If we were 0-8 with Quinn, he had the numbers DA has now and he showed absolutely no progress or prospect as an NFL QB, I think I’d have no other choice than be in the ‘draft a QB’ camp.
I took Mangini at his word that whoever won the QB competition, he was going to stick with and ride through this season, for better or worse. Joke’s on me, I guess.
And I’d agree the QB switch likely will make little difference at this point. The playmakers just aren’t there, and I’d suspect morale is pretty low right about now.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
quinn was 0-3, not only had he not shown progress it could be argued he got worse, and he hadn’t shown that he’s even a decent progress at qb. would it really take 5 more games to see he’s not very good?
do you need to watch DA play more to know that he is also not very good? actually worse than that, he is terrible. DA is not the future for this team. so why bother playing him when we already know that? how many starts has DA had compared to quinn? we need to figure out what to do about this qb situation next year.
we got quinn with the 22nd pick in the 1st round of the draft. not only that, we also gave up a pick the next year in order to get him. 5 games is not enough to fully evaluate a qb. we need to know if quinn is worth developing into a starter, worth keeping as a backup, or if we should trade him in the off season.
this time around, quinn won’t be looking over his shoulder at DA. maybe that will lead to less conservative play by him. at this point, he doesn’t have all that much to lose.
i don’t need any more games, in fact i didn’t need any this year. i never said anderson was any better. My position is quinn is not the future of this team either, so why does it matter who plays?
you should never take into account where a player was drafted when determining his worth.
and i know this part is largely opinion, and mine is certainly the minority, but i think those 5 games are enough to tell quinn will never be a quality starter. I do think he can be a better-than-average backup, but not for a year or two, and not in cleveland. as long as quinn is a backup in cleveland there will be a qb controversy
you should never take into account where a player was drafted when determining his worth.
i’m not saying “oh just because he’s a first round pick he’s great”. i’m saying that we took him in the first round so let’s give him more of a chance to prove himself.
i guess we’ll agree to disagree here. i think he deserves more of a chance. that’s all i’m trying to say.
i don’t need any more games, in fact i didn’t need any this year.
Really? Did you make this determination from his prior two career starts, his preseason play or his years at Notre Dame? It sounds a bit like you are predisposed to believe Quinn could never be worth his salt in the NFL.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
I took Mangini at his word that whoever won the QB competition, he was going to stick with and ride through this season, for better or worse. Joke’s on me, I guess.
And didn’t he say there was no chance of seeing Quinn today as well? As closed mouthed as he is, maybe even that’s not enough.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
A coach is never, ever going to stick with one player for an entire season if that player is not performing, no matter who the player is.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Well, then he might go back to him. But that’s different than sticking with one player the entire season.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed, but giving that impression and then pulling the ‘winning’ QB after 10 quarters? Not to rehash the past, but it seemed fickle - just like today’s last-minute WTF BQ insertion.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
I just think you are skating on thin ice when the change being made and the back and forth is at the QB position
by Western Reserve on Nov 2, 2009 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
Well, when something is not working then you have to try someone else. A coach isn’t going to play a terrible QB for the whole season because that gives the whole team the impression that he’s not trying to win games. How many QB changes have occured in the NFL already this year? Making a QB change isn’t that unusual.
Now, to go back and forth between the two is pointless, so hopefully once Mangini goes back to Quinn he will stick with him for the rest of the season. But you don’t have to stick with the guy who started for all 16 games if he’s not performing. That’s detrimental to the team.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 2, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Not necessarily; sometimes you must stick with a plan, allow some development and on-field maturity and see what you’ve got in a guy. Part of the argument is that 2.5 games, especially against the likes of Minnesota, Denver and Baltimore, was hardly enough time to know he was going to be “terrible [at] QB for the whole season.” I’d say QB changes are unusual with teams that have any shot at all.
Of course it would be detrimental to stick with a 16 game starter if he wasn’t any good, but that’s virtually what we got by having DA resume his starting role. And that’s exactly what we needed to find out about Quinn this year — but now we’ve wasted the past six weeks and this season is already a wash.
by Western Reserve on Nov 2, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Quinn could have beat Buffalo. He has struggled this season but he wouldnt have gone 2-17
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 1, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Have to agree. As mediocre as BQ has looked, it takes a special kind of disaster to be as bad as DA was there.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
surely you’re not implying that DA helped win the buffalo game. if you are, that might be the craziest thing i’ve heard yet this season.
I am happy that we benched Quinn and avoided paying the bonuses. I also think he should start the next few games.
Completely disagree. I hardly think the turmoil at the QB position — or arguably the team — the move created is worth the money to a billionaire.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
It has nothing to do with how it impacts Randy Lerner. I don’t care at all how Randy Lerner spends or lsoes money. It has directly to do with how you allocate the money on your football team and tie up cap space.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 1, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough, but I still wouldn’t agree with the move simply on the basis of money.
Also, drafting a QB could end up costing a small fortune, and it carries high risk.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
I was thinking the same thing when I typed it. Hah.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
I was afraid drafting Thomas with a possibility of a re-occuring ACL injury.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
And he was expensive. Seven years for 60 million.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
I can obviously tell he’s a failed Raider pick I never cared about.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Well, true, but perhaps none higher than drafting a QB and subsequently planning to play the guy and make him their franchise.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t either. But I’m consolidating my views that that’s what the plan is — if there’s a plan at all. Unless they want to get a washed up veteran.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t be so sure. I do think they would rather have a foundation in place before taking a top QB, unless they are absolutely positive about the guy’s potential.
Wow, you must really do have the patience of a saint!
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
If we drafted well for the next two years, we could have a really good defense, a studly OL, and plenty of targets. We could find a veteran who would look OK in that offense, and then wait for the young franchise QB later.
I would be totally fine with that. I know we are a long ways away.
If we ever want to be a good team, we will have to have drafted well. If we don’t draft well, we don’t win games.
Has someone posted a Browns 2009 drinking game yet? It’d probably have to come with a surgeon general’s warning….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
some suggestions.
*when there is a 3 and out: drink
*each time mangini looked befuddled on the sidelines: drink
*each time DA throws an incompletion: drink
*each time there is a dropped pass: drink
*each time we settle for a FG: drink
*each time we get less than 200 total yards: drink
that should tide you over lol.
Naturally, I hope you are right, but I just can’t share your optimism here. Coming into this year, I knew this team needed a lot of work, but I didn’t expect a colossal face plant from the new regime. We’ve remarkably found ways to take steps backwards, and I’d put the odds at better than half that the team under this regime will never be successful.
The prospect of a placeholder veteran QB, mired in an uncompetitive offense for years to come is unpalatable. Scheduling success for ‘a long ways away’ isn’t only undesirable it should be considered intolerable.
by Western Reserve on Nov 2, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions
Wow. He’s going to be a wash out. I expect more from you Rufio.
But then again, you never were enough to replace Peter Pan…
(that last part was genius, don’t hate alright?)
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
I fictitiously replaced Pan just fine. It was when I got cocky and thought I WAS the Pan when I got in to trouble.
I was half-joking, but from the early returns, Barkley is going to be a pretty solid prospect in a couple of years. FAR too early to tell for sure, of course.
Great counter.
And I half – heartedly agree, but I’m always very harsh on blue eyed, blonde haired QB prospects.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
There are two of them. Nate went to ND as a frosh and transfered to JUCO
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 1, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Nick was the hot prospect fresh out of college.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
yup! it surprised me a bit. osu, usc, and nd both had offers for him too.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Nick-Montana-84137
USC would be dumb for him, OSU would obviously be his JR year to be exposed to scouts and ND would make sense but his brother will be holding that spot in two years. So I suppose good choice.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
His bro is gone because we have a 5-star-prospect behind Clausen.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 2, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Right and because he didn’t feel like he was prepared enough.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Actually he wants back in the leaugue
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 2, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Isn’t 2010 a cap free year? Why would have to worry about cap space?
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
Unless you think that the cap is going away for good, we should be cognizant of our salary situation.
True. Because I don’t see the NFL keeping uncapped seasons after 2010.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
But Quinn wasn’t performing — people always seem to forget that. I saw nothing wrong with giving DA a chance to see if he could move the offense. Unfortunately it only worked for one game but it was a move worth making. People seem to forgot how bad Quinn looked when we benched him.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
But was it worth sustaining this long, and how do you gracefully go back afterward?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
I’m really not sure that the chaos, questions and overall dysfunction were worth the accounting benefits.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Hate to say it, but Mangini and Daboll were not the guys giving the ball back to the Bears. Five turnovers! It’s impossible for a team to look competitive when it gives up the ball five times.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
Right. Fumbles aren’t a result of bad play-calling or bad coaching; the players need to hang on to the ball. Our offense was getting yards a few times in the second half but the turnovers killed us.
The play calling was not bad. How can we fault it when the players dropped the ball left-and-right.
If it were a case of poor discipline instilled by the coaching staff, we would also see a lot of penalties, too, but that is not the case.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
Part of this is because our offense is rarely on the field too. More offensive snaps would invariably lead to more false starts and holding calls.
But yes, the few penalties, means at least the D is playing without cheap shots, etc.
penalties are frequently called on defenders, too…
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Aren’t most of our penalties D penalties anyways? And aren’t most of them D personal fouls?…
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
Another topic for discussion:
Jamal Lewis to Retire following this season
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
Maurice Jones-Drew RB
5 Rush, 172 yds
2 TDs
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
Yeah, I benched him in my other league.
I hate myself.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 2, 2009 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
I’m struggling right now. While I hate knee-jerk reactions, and I’ll be the first to tell people not to judge a coach after 7 games, I just feel like so many of his decisions have been underwhelming so far.
- The hiring of Daboll looks foolish. As head coach, there has to be responsibility for how terrible our offensive scheme is.
- The handling of our quarterbacks has been terrible. I think that both quarterbacks are lousy, but both are being put in positions to fail. What was Quinn supposed to demonstrate with three minutes today? What was the point of pulling him after 10 quarters in the first place?
- While I agreed with the decision to trade down initially, and I love Alex Mack, I didn’t like any of our second-round picks to begin with. I’m not going to judge the receivers now, but I didn’t think much of them in the first place. Obviously this is subjective; I hope I’m wrong. Veikune, well… who knows what we have there.
- I agree that our horde of Jets players made us immediately better at positions where we were were terrible. But I worry that we went from truly terrible to merely bad at those positions, and we will have to replace those players shortly anyway.
- The team has displayed a startling lack of fundamentals. Do you blame the coaches if players can’t catch? If they don’t tackle? I don’t know. What do you guys think?
- I think the Edwards situation was handled poorly. If we knew we weren’t going to get him back, we should have taken a solid offer for him in the offseason. We knew we weren’t competing this year.
- Why do we keep giving Jamal Lewis carries?
I don’t know, guys. It’s my basic philosophy that you can’t fire a coach after his first season, so I’m going to advocate giving Mangini another year. And I don’t really know what’s going on with a team, so I’m not going to get into that fines/grievances/James Davis stuff. And of course, I’m just a dumb fan, so hopefully I’m wrong about everything. But for now, to me, things just look depressing for the foreseeable future.
Some great points there. I think you outline a great case that shows truly how poorly managed this team is. I feel we are taking steps backwards, and we’ll be mired in it for years.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
- I’ll talk about the 2nd round picks. And honestly in their few games that they’ve played in… we know zip about them. Massaquoi’s 9 catches probably showed he had a little something. The next few games there were drops here and there. I’ll put that to growing pains. But since then, we’ve got nothing from them – they haven’t been targeted.
- Jets players have done well. They were the ones performing today.
- If they can’t tackle and catch it’s up to the coaches. If they fumble.. well.
- I think we were looking at how Edwards was going to perform. If he did well I reckon we would’ve kept him. My opinion anyway. His nightclub incident was the last straw for Mangini though.
You are right about the second round picks. I didn’t like them in the first place, and they haven’t had the chance to prove me wrong. They could be great in the future, but for now I’m biased against them.
Receivers almost always take a couple years to develop in the NFL, so we shouldn’t expect much from them this year, anyways. Hopefully next year with experience, and hopefully a decent QB, they will play much better.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
What was Quinn supposed to demonstrate with three minutes today?
Just the question I’ve been asking myself since it happened. What the hell was Mangini thinking here? I’m truly baffled, and it looked random, pointless, and futile.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
Agree on Daboll. I’d be shocked if he survives the bye week.
I’m done talking about the QB situation. I don’t care, and I honestly think Mangini has handled it the only way he could. He hasn’t seen anything from either of them since he got here.
Give the 2nd rounders (and the rest of the lower draft picks) time.
Good point about the Jets guys. They are better relative to the 2008 roster, but not relative to the NFL. Mangini and Ryan have talked about bringing in guys that know the system, and I think this is the biggest long term benefit from guys like Bowens and Barton.
The thing with Mangini having so much control is that there is really nobody else to blame. The players can’t catch? Why did you get those players? They don’t tackle? Why do they play? Still, those generalized critiques aren’t quite as useful as when they get specific. Some of the drops are on DA’s inaccuracy. A lot were from Edwards. But what do you say when a guy with proven good hands drops a perfect pass? It seemed like Stuckey had more drops in 2 games as a Brown than he did in 2 years as a Jet.
Maybe they should have traded Edwards earlier. But they were holding out hope that they could compete this year and Edwards could turn it around. In the end, we got a few games more of Edwards’ talent and we still got about the same return as what the Giants were offering on draft day. Despite off the field problems that nobody could foresee.
I don’t know, and now that he has announced this season to be his last, maybe we won’t. The Davis injury did make it hard to completely bench Lewis though.
Good post – I agree with you. Arguing about the QBs has gotten really tiresome. Time to move on. As for the Jets guys, I actually think Bowens has some use as a player, and I’ve been generally impressed with Elam. Kenyon Coleman has also had some good moments. As for the others, not so much.
The thing with Mangini having so much control is that there is really nobody else to blame.
apparently, mangini figured out a way to blame kotnkus (sp)…
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
As a bear fan I would like to thank the Browns
for giving us this game. We played a terrible game and should have had a lot more points. Our O coordinator called maybe his worst game of the year and it was really awful on third down. In no way am I happy with this win. I almost feel like we lost this game…
Roach love the run stuffin', but don't forget about the TE over the middle!!
- "Original WCG Power Poster!"
Simmsinns:
Here is the youtube video I was talking about. It is doable with and without the unbalanced line. If we could execute either version well, I wouldn’t mind seeing heavy doses over the next couple of weeks.
i think in the offseason, we should fire dumbass, i mean daboll! and hire mike shanahan. wasnt he calling the offensive plays in denver?? and i think a good fit for president of football ops. would be mike holmgren. thats just my opinion, but i dont think either of them would be a bad choice. give mangini one more year, im not a fan of the choice to hire him to begin with, but give him a chance.
players i think we should keep an eye on in the draft would be Eric Norwood from south carolina (LB), tony pike from cinncinati(QB), dez bryant from okla. st.(WR), curtis wood,or thomas, i cant remember his name,from texas(CB), and i cant remeber his name, i think its pryor- the cornerback from michigan state, the one who laid out that hawkeyes receiver, we need that kind of tenacity on our team!! but first and fore most, with the first rounder we need to get someone good on the right side of the offensive line, i dont know who the best prosepect for that position is coming out, but we need it!!
a late rounder we could pick up could be that mathews guy from fresno state, quick moves, fast, and hes a big boy! shoulda seen how he ran all over boise states defense!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 8:45 PM EST reply actions
Name Parcells team president and Cowher as VP and Ron Wolf as GM.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
That’d be a clusterf*ck of greatness.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
We’d win, like eleventeen Super Bowl rings with all that talent!
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
We need someone of those guys’ caliber to turn this boat around.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly right. Every single one of those guys would only come if they were the #1 guy in the organization.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Strangely enough I actually thought the right side was alright today.
St Clair has been picking it up (maybe it was added motivation against his former team). Either Hadnot or Fraley at RG is alright.
So right now, even though it isn’t a great line, I don’t think we draft too high for O-line. Maybe with our 2nd 2nd round pick (that we’re gunna get for Braylon – he’s on course isn’t he?)
Actually, at LB I’d like to see us get someone like Bruce Carter the Jr LB at UNC. That guy was everywhere on the field yesterday. I never paid much attention to the eligibility rules, just wait to see who ends up on the board on draft day, but if that dude could declare early I wouldn’t mind us getting him.
hes not a bad choice either, most of that defense woudlnt be a bad idea!! maybe get carter and norwood in the second round!!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
what do you all think??
please i enjoy others opinions!!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 8:47 PM EST reply actions
i am a very loyal Browns fan, and i watch every game and i agree with those who say its not the defence! i really like Rob Ryan and of the coachs the Browns have i think he is the best! Against the bears the defence had not 1 not 2 but 3 goal line stands! The offence is putrid! Anderson is just horrible and not to say Quinn is better but damn give the kid a chance, we will never know what he could become if he doesn’t play! God love the Browns and lets hope the bleeding stops soon! Go Browns!
a clusterf@ck it would be, but you with holmgren in the front office, he wont put up with the bullshit from mangini! if cant cut the mustard, his ass would be bounced!! what do you guys think of my draft choices though??
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 9:17 PM EST reply actions
Please use the reply button and unless you’re very animated and it’s a very animated post, watch the cursing. And Mangini isn’t to blame for all the bull crap. And I used the term Clusterf*ck in the the positive sense.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
soryy for the cursing and i thought i was being animated about my opinion on mangini!! lol i know you meant clusterf@ck as a positive, the bs from mangini i was talking about was if he doesnt improve, holmgren would replace him in a heartbeat!! soryy for the confusion!!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
specialbrownie
what do you think about the players i though we should be looking at in the draft next year??
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions
I like Tony Pike, A WR seems silly, We need another strong CB and def. a S but I think Francies can take up the 2nd CB spot. And we don’t need to waste a 1st rounder on the right side of our line. A 2nd round pick will do just fine.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
i think if we get another young WR we should be alright after the growing pains have passed by next year! francies and maybe your right about the rg/rt position, id say drop the porkchop at the end of the year though!! so who do you think we should take with our first pick??
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
sorry i havent heard of them, i feel bad now!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
Coleman with one of our 3rd rounders, right?
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 1, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Naw. He’ll be gone by the 3rd guaranteed.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
You win. First pick no doubt. Possibly even #1
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 2, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
It’s seriously stacked. This year’s draft was a wash out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
so what? draft the guys next year, start them and trade off all of this years sucky starters to gain more draft picks maybe??
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
so who are these safetys you speak of, and where do they play??
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Eric Berry, Tenne Vols / Taylor Mays, USC / Kurt Coleman OSU.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
ah!! i see any other good picks you could think of??
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
Ndamukong Suh of Nebraska is promising.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Where do you think Coleman will go in the draft? He’s been playing really well this year and I think he’ll make a solid pro. I’ve been really impressed with him — he’s a playmaker. A possible 2nd or 3rd round pick if we don’t get Berry.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
on walterfootball, a mock draft had him going late first. this was at the beginning of the season though, and i think that’s a bit of a reach.
don’t we have 3 second round picks?
One, and a possibility of a second I think.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Right, it depends on Edwards in NY if we get a second duece.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
Which won’t happen. I’m sorry Edwards, a change to NY scenery doesn’t change your play ability.
I hope LBJ notices this…
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
The difference is that LeBron doesn’t need his ability to change.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Of course. That’s why he’s not going to NY.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
i honestly do not think lebron is going to leave cleveland. yeah, there will be some sort of drama and everyone in cleveland will be freaking out, but in the end he will resign.
I got 99 problems and LBJ not coming to NY is one.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
So he won’t even play BB anymore? He’ll retire? That’s a weird tangent.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
He’s increased his stock dramatically this season.
I’m being pessimistic against us and saying late first, early second. He won’t come near our picks at the right times.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
I personally think that Coleman is climbing right now. Second rounder, could squeeze into the first with a set of nice workouts.
He will run a good time for a safety and has played out of his mind this season.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
There are just too many better safeties
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 1, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Someone in the top 10-15 will fall in love with the size and speed of Mays.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 2, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Chad Jones from LSU, Morgan Burnett from GT, and Texas’s safety are the 3rd-5th best safeties
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 1, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
why? is he that good?? sorry i dont follow tenn.
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
I hate saying things like this because it sounds like hyperbole, but he does things that no other player in college football can do. I personally think that he is better with the ball in hands than Ed Reed. That may be the highest compliment you can give a DB.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
boy after watching that, THATS are first pick!! not just cause of the hit on tebow, but THAT is a football player!! he has exactly what we need!!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
He’s the kind of player that you don’t have to coach up. If anything, you’ll have to reel him in a bit.
Would instantly be the best safety we’ve had since Eric Turner.
talk about an instant impact player!! he would be great!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
with a guy like him playing, that would make wright, francies, and elam all better! that guy looks like he could cover the whole backfeild himself!!
by findlaybrownslover on Nov 1, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
i’ve come over to the berry team from the mays camp. and i was firmly entrenched there. berry is absurd.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
Welcome. There is a continental breakfast buffet in the corner. Help yourself.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions