Jamal Lewis Calling it Quits After the Season? Lerner Upset?
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 1, 2009 5:51 PM EST
in General News
290 comments
According to Steve Doerschuk of the Canton Repository, after the Browns' loss to the Bears, Jamal Lewis stated that he would be retiring at the end of the season. Doerschuk notes that Lewis can only take so much more, and a half season is the extent of it.
If you're Eric Mangini, shouldn't this be a sure sign that Lewis should be benched? The only purpose left to this season is development, and if Lewis isn't going to be with the team next season, there's really no purpose in having him play over Jerome Harrison. It hurts even more now that James Davis suffered a season-ending injury earlier in the season.
Doerschuk also had some interesting notes from when he was nearby owner Randy Lerner:
We bumped into owner Randy Lerner in the hallway. He talked at some length. He was quite animated, apologizing a few times during an off-the-record briefing as to being vague about what comes next.
He did say, "There’s a lot going on."
Jim Brown, one of the owner’s advisers, was nearby.
Finally, Doerschuk noted that Derek Anderson was "more angry than he had ever seen him" following the game. No word on who will start at quarterback in two weeks against the Baltimore Ravens.
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Can’t say I’m sad to hear any of this news.
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 5:59 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think Lerner wants to win more than 1 game this year regardless of who plays.
He might need Lewis to get that second victory. On the other hand, Harrison can still get plenty of opportunities to play, but he is not replacing Lewis no matter how much he plays this year.
Good. Time to move on for the team and him.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 1, 2009 6:10 PM EST reply actions
House of cards. . .er. . browns. . .
normally, after reading a post like this I would be crying to the non-caring football gods, but this might be the event that turns this team around, for at least a win or two more this season. GET MAD BROWNIES!!! PLAY WITH SOME HEART!!! As for Lewis. . .it is probably time, like most runningbacks, age unfortunetly takes it’s toll, even if you weren’t great in cleveland and some of your greatest games were against us with the ravens, from a purely football point of view, it was great watching you play the game as well as you did when you were younger.
Regardless of how much he sucks at quarterback, nobody can ever say derek anderson doesn’t care about football.
I’m very interested in what exactly lerner was talking about when he said there was a lot going on.
He can’t care; considering the turnovers. Especially in the green zone. This is coming from a DA. supporter.
first off, unnecessary semicolon, a comma would have worked, but thats just my inner grammer policeman talking
what is the green zone?
how do turnovers show he doesn’t care about football?
first off, unnecessary semicolon, a comma would have worked, but thats just my inner grammer policeman talking
Seriously?
by Western Reserve on Nov 1, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
This guy isn’t the most appreciated poster. And I agree with his grammar policing.
Grammar ignorance should not be taken lightly.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions
Ok. Works for me. Red zone is now the green zone.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
inner grammer policeman
this is really ironic…
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 1, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This is really ironic…
You get a rec for being ironic also. Haha.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
You think he doesn’t care? He isn’t exactly jumping around with happiness right now.
As a QB he’s really bad. But you can’t knock him off as a person.
Right. It really bothers me when people try to judge an athlete’s character by how he performs on the field.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
I’d never say he doesn’t care. Unfortunately, that caring has not translated into anything useful for the team in some time, so…. I don’t care whether he cares or not.
I’d like to think his anger comes from being told he’ll never start in a Browns uniform again, but that’s probably just wish fulfillment on my part.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
It sounds pretty much right on the money. But I think it evolves more to a Browns jersey.
…Any jersey.
UFL ARE YOU READY FOR SOME DA??
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
Enough is enough!!! They wont get nothing for either QB; considering the way they played. As a die hard fan, i can’t find any thing positive to say about the Browns performance. I’m talking about B.Quinn and D.Anderson. It doesn’t make a difference which one plays; the offense sucks!!! J. Lewis should have retired last year!!!
He’s not THAT big. I think he is only about 218
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 2, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, they will get nothing for either of them. A big, fat nothing.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
thank you. that’s what i’ve been thinking.
on second though, let’s not play brady. we don’t want to give up that 7th rounder and that guy on the practice squad we could get for him!
I was actually making a gentle correction of Nuts’ double negative, but the point stands.
I can’t imagine that either of our QBs has any significant value today except as a project for someone, although BQ remains more of a possible mystery. This should have no bearing on any decision about who’s playing from here on out .
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
i think if you tried you could find positive things to say about both the defense and special teams (minus that whole, uh, blocked PAT thing). the offense sucks, but that doesn’t mean good things aren’t happening elsewhere.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 1, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
If there is a lot in the works I guess we can only wait and see what happens. I know how I feel and I’ve been ridiculed for saying my peace……..as for J. Lewis, he’s getting old and today was a better game for him than the last few at least he ran for more than 1 yard a carry. I’’ve been waiting for them to start using Harrison more to see what he can do I guess now we’ll see?
Play Harrison. Play Jennings. Give Vickers or Cribbs some carries. Pick up a bum at the corner of Ninth and Superior and give him the football. Who cares?
Mocking the Draft: Your NFL Draft source.
I assume by “who cares”, you mean “who cares, as long as we do something?”
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 1, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
I’d like to see the Browns run the Single-wing with Josh Cribbs the entire game. There is nothing to be gained from trotting the abysmal quarterbacks out there. They may as well get creative and have some fun with it.
I have been driving this bus for 2 weeks now. Run the freaking triple option right now for all I care.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
Find a Paul Johnson disciple and replace Daboll… I like it. Johnson is the man, by the way. 50 points against BCS opponents using the triple option, that’s pretty sweet.
I don’t think he’d do it- it’d be a demotion. He is going to get to a BCS Bowl this year. Might have the most underrated team in college football. If only their defense was a tad better, I think you could make a case that they are amongst the best teams in the country.
College coaches will (almost) always jump at the chance to go to the NFL. $$$$$$$$$$
That said, the option won’t work in the NFL. It’s great at Georgia Tech but the defenses are just too fast.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 1, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I’m sure he would jump at the chance to be the head coach of the Browns, I thought we were talking about o-coordinator: that would be the demotion.
I agree it wouldn’t work, but I agree with the sentiment to try something ridiculous and gadgety the rest of the year. This offense is that bad.
That reminds me- remember the UFO defense from 9 or 10 years ago?
Anything we can actually execute would be better than what we are doing now.
Run-n-shoot, triple option, wishbone, spread, read-option, A11, anything we can execute.
I dont want to sound dumb, but I’ve never understood the run-n-shoot. What is it?
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 2, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
Daboll Critical Mangini Error
It is unbelievable how much criticism gets leveled at BQ and DA. While both DA and BQ have sucked – there are 2 things weird about their suckiness:
1. They are both sooooo much worse than at any point last year. Looking totally impotent and clueless. I doubt either of these QBs are at this level of suckiness.
2. Both have gotten progressively sucky during their outings. Every week, worse.
While I will admit that both QBs are not top tier NFL QBs – Daboll is a cancer that sucks the life out of QBs, never steps to the plate for accountability, and lets them the brunt of fans ire while he toils in utter incompetence. This hire will turn Mangini to Cangini – maybe as early as this week.
while i agree daboll sucks, i don’t think its necessarily his decision how much media time he gets.
Daboll’s trouble with the quarterbacks is especially troublesome considering he used to be a quarterbacks coach.
If Mangini is fired this week I would have to believe that Lerner has a strong hire in place. I don’t think he is going to fire him, and I think there’s no way he fires him to put in an interim coach.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
I can’t see that. No way someone from outside the organization is coming in the middle of a season to join a 1-8 team. If Mangini is fired, Ryan would almost definitely be the interim coach and he would likely be a candidate to keep the job long term.
I guess I was thinking if he was willing to fire Mangini before the season was over that he would want to emphatically correct his mistake of hiring him and not let the new hiring process go on longer then it has to.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
Anderson showed signs of this last year. He wasn’t even close to any of his accidental success that he had in ’07. When Quinn got in he was a little above average. I believe if he were to call the same pass plays for Quinn that he did for Anderson, there would be more success. Not turning around the season success, but decent to better our defense. After that who knows…..
how do you know he isn’t calling the same pass plays?
by notthatnoise on Nov 2, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Lerner is going to drop the hammer tomorrow on Mangini and Daboll. Promoted/Assigned interim positions will be Brad Seely interim HC and Carl Smith to interim OC.
there is absolutely 0% chance of this happening. what would that solve? if daboll goes, it wouldn’t be that surprising, but i still don’t expect it. but firing mangini at this point would be completely pointless. give him some time. we don’t need a rebuild in the middle of a rebuild.
Not saying I want it to happen, but it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if Mangini were fired tomorrow.
http://blogs.cantonrep.com/freshbrownies/lerners-halftime-staredown/
Doesn’t sound like he is too happy with anyone right now. If he views Mangini as a mistake, which could be justified given the 1-7 record along with the sucktitude of the offense, then he could pull that trigger.
What gets me is that Lerner was rumored to have been blown away by Mangini when he was hired. I can’t help but think he really expected Mangini to do good things for the club upon hiring him, and for those results to appear soon. So far, it looks like Mangini has done nothing but set us back. I realize that we probably needed to take a step back to take steps forward, but if Lerner wanted results soon, then he has been and will be grossly disappointed.
Don't Understand Your Point Dawg Nuts
What does canning Mangini solve? It solves the same thing every other solid firing solves – you get rid of an incompetent employee. The sooner the better, admit your mistakes and move on. That’s the way it is in business and the NFL.
Now I don’t know if Mangini is totally incompetent, but if Lerner makes that conclusion – lets move on then.
how can lerner, or anyone, know that mangini is incompetent at this point? 2 out of 3 phases of the game have been okay, ST and D. Even though the D is poor statistically, we’ve had this discussion in numerous other posts about how the stats don’t show that they’ve played well but been left on the field too long by an awful offense. clearly, daboll is failing miserably and that can be determined right now. Firing daboll would make much more sense than firing mangini. i agree with what you’re saying, in theory. i just don’t think we know if mangini is an incompetent employee yet.
More chaos. That’s exactly what this organization needs!
Fixed.
Seriously, showing Daboll the door I can understand. More than that, no.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
lewis
good bye jamal ,i hope you hit the door faster than you do the hole!
I don’t think there is any question that Lerner realizes that the Mangini hire was a mistake. Now I don’t think he will be fired but Daboll will be gone by Tuesday. Anderson and Quinn our decent QB’s who if given talent can win in this league. Daboll and Mangini have made these two into Division II type QB’s.
I hope Mangini goes but I don’t see it happening.
Mangini can pick up the duties. Right now, he’s basically as inept as Jim Zorn.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
Does it make any difference. I am sure in the next few days they can replace Daboll. Something needs to be done. I never thought in my wildest dreams that this team would be worse than last year. Well I was wrong. Hell that is even with Ken Dorsey at QB
It doesn’t matter, and I honestly don’t think our offense improves the rest of the way no matter what they try.
Tough job to come in and rebuild this collapsing structure on the fly, certainly. Still, I’d like to think we could see improvement in a few games. Not necessarily contention, but improvement.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
Make it a fan thing. Bring someone out of the crowd every week.
We would see a bunch of reverses and flea flickers. We would still suck, but it would be fun.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
Tell me you wouldn’t go. I would make it to at least one game. It would be EPIC.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
No, you’re right, I totally would go! Not sure how I’d feel about turning the team into a glorified reality television program, but for sheer entertainment value….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
Remember that one game against the Chargers, after Butch Davis got fired, and Robiskie got to be interim coach? You could tell Robiskie was like “This is my one game as an NFL head coach, and I’m going to try every stupid idea I ever had.”
I was at that game, and we called one trick play after another, and every single one failed miserably. It was hilarious. And the best Browns game I watched all year.
I loved the whole “bucket of ice” thing. Let me see if I can find a link… ah, there it is:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1114689/index.htm
Brownsyup
Man, I’d pretty much forgotten all about those shining moments in Browns history. Thanks for the reminders, folks.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 3, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
As an owner its hard to imagine he would say anything otherwise. Given its his money, I’m sure he had a say in whether playing Quinn or not.
Mangini’s Scorecard
Good – Rob Ryan, getting ride of Kellon, Braylon, picking Mack, benching DA, instituting discipline, picking up role players from the jets to fill the massive holes on D, playing the rookies
Bad – Daboll by far is his worst mistake, coming to the Browns with weak ownership, handling of Quinn/DA from the start, not trading one prior to the start of the season, not trading Edwards prior to the start, missing on ‘sure’ starters in 2nd rd picks, not picking a strong O-cordinator (see results from Romeo), treating NFL players like Highschoolers (pro/con)
If there are things in the locker room or with management we don’t know then I could understand a change but there has been improvement on D, good special teams but extremley poor O. With such a strong schedule the record is somewhat expected with the lack of talent.
Rams, Chiefs, Lions have new GM/Coaches with similar results and those were ones we could’ve had, what’s the difference?
by Guage80 on Nov 1, 2009 8:31 PM EST via mobile reply actions
agreed… that’s why it’s a pro and a con
The problem is, and that is why college coaches have a hard transition, is these are grown men. I like the discipline aspect but unfortunately not all the players do and that’s why he has had to get ride of so many players including our ‘star’ players (if we really had any)
This is also why someone with his coaching style, takes time to change a team. Further compounding Mangini’s problem is loosing bad each week makes his ‘system’ of discipline becomes a hard pill to swallow.
Given its his money, I’m sure he had a say in whether playing Quinn or not.
He would spend money if it meant wins. Do you honestly think he is fuming right now because he has to spend money? I’d say he’s a little more pissed because the team looks awful. I think he’d pay 11 million for a good QB—not that Quinn is one.
Typing from my mobile I should have separated the comments. He is fuming b/c the team as a product sucks. The same reason we are all pissed off.
I agree the Browns would have played Quinn if he was winning or even showed potential to win. However that wasn’t apparent in the first 2.5 games, so what ever the reason for his benching, if they didn’t do it for finical reasons, they lucked out and saved at least 5 mil (he could get the other 5 mil next year).
He hasnt been playing the rookies as much as I would like
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 1, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
At first that seemed to be the case, but you don’t want them to be in a position to fail early (first 4 games) but since then we have seen a steady increase in nearly all the players drafted.
He has played Mack and Mo Mass all games, Davis until he got hurt, Robo and Mavia recently, Veinkue had the toughest transition and I’ve only seen him a few times and Francies was backing up Wright/McDonald. Who did I miss?
Francies has bearly been playing at all
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 2, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t see how you can count getting rid of Kellon and Braylon as a plus for Mangini (or whoever). They are clearly more talented than any skill player we have now (outside of Cribbs). Even if you feel like both were head cases and too inconsistent (I don’t agree) to make a difference, it still doesn’t take any talent or skill to dump them.
The merits of the Edwards trade are, perhaps, debatable, but second rounder for K2’s bum knee. That’s a win for Mangini & Co. no matter how you look at it.
I liked both trades.
Yeah, you can’t argue with the Winslow trade, especially when you look at the contract he got from the Bucs. No way would I have wanted the Browns to give him that much guarenteed money with his injury history.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 2, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Any OC who has a handle bar mustache shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Really, a handle bar mustache? Look professional at least.
A run on 3 and 5 and a pass on 4 and 1…F*ck Me.
Well, I guess I should just cross this man off my new OC list.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
I made a Hulk Hogan joke about him in this post somewhere I think. Haha.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
Quick Question For Your Thoughts
Wasn’t that the weirdest the timing in the world to insert BQ into the game? If it was to add a spark – it certainly would have made sense to make the move at the half. Supposedly Mangini does everything for a reason – do you have any thoughts on what he was thinking?
by realmccoy on Nov 1, 2009 8:49 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
No idea, unless it’s some public relations move so fans are inclined to think Quinn will start again. As down as we were on Quinn after the first few games, Anderson’s performance has almost left us begging for Quinn again, in a sense.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 1, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
Quinn’s 2.5 game stats> Any combination of 2.5 game stat for DA this season.
DA’s been terrible in 5 straight games. Completely worse than BQ. Why keep him in?
Our QB’s have regressed with Mangini and Daboll!!
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
DA was very good against cinci. very good.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 1, 2009 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
He was good against them in 2007 too remember? Then 2008 happened.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
i’m not saying anderson is a good qb, but you are dead wrong about the “any combination” point. da put together the 4 best quarters played by a browns qb this year.
but, start quinn.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
you want quinn to start? i could be getting you mixed up with another poster, but i thought you were completely against him
i’m planted in the “i don’t give a shit who starts at qb” camp. i think quinn probably stinks, but he can’t be worse than anderson at this point.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
You were adamantly against BQ in the beginning.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
that is blatantly made up. completely and utterly. please provide me some evidence.
i wanted quinn to start the season, but i wasn’t exactly upset that he got yanked after 2.5 shitty games.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe I was just being a little bias to prove a point.
Excuse me.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
I genuinely forgot about the Cincy game when I posted the combination comment.
But excluding that fluke game, it still stands.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
so, excluding his 4 best quarters, which also happen to be the 4 best quarters played by a browns qb in 2009, he has been awful? is that it? just want to make sure how, exactly, we’re stacking the deck…
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Out of 8 games it was the only good QB game.
That’s how we’re stacking the deck. Have at me.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
Me too. It’s the South Park election all over again.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 2, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
If DA hadn’t also put together the worst 4 quarters (at least as a guess, as I’m too tired to actually crunch numbers) maybe it would be a different discussion. You can’t just count the high points, though.
Not that you’re coming across as a big DA defender or anything, but just to add that to the mix….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 2, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, i’m not trying to say anything remotely resembling “da is good”. i’m merely saying that he played a great game against cinci, which made it pretty defensible to continue to play him for a few additional weeks.
he sucks now, though. play quinn.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
It’s really sad when a 68.8 QB rating is considered very good for your team.
God we blow.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 2, 2009 2:06 AM EST up reply actions
Right. It seemed to me that it was almost like an FU to the Browns fans.
You want Quinn? Fine, here ya go. Enjoy.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed. Besides, if he’s really playing that game, he sucks at PR almost as much as he sucks at managing QB competitions. Does he really thinks one series is going to shut down those chants for BQ?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yep got a bad feeling that DA will be back under center next game.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 1, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
With the way he has done things with the QB’s so far would not put it past him to say DA is the QB.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 1, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
I thought that timing was completely bizarre and have no rational explanation for it all. I’d love to hear Mangini explain it. If he just wanted to placate the fans, he could have brought DA’s head out on a pike announced Quinn as the starter for the next game at the postgame press conference.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
hahaha.
as much as i hate it when we lose, the sarcastic comments on here make my day. they’re hilarious.
You think I was being sarcastic? Heh.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
My pleasure. We need all the laughs we can get right now!
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 2, 2009 2:41 AM EST up reply actions
Am I the only person who took Mangini’s playing of Quinn as a total FU move?
Sort of like, “You want Quinn so freaking bad, here he is” type way. After the game he didn’t say that Quinn was the starter. He said that he will look at the position. I personally think he is going with Ratliff.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 2, 2009 2:13 AM EST up reply actions
I hate that idea and hope you’re wrong, but I don’t know.
I’d be OK with Ratliff, really. Let’s see what he’s got. I’d be OK with Cribbs. I’d actually be OK with anyone but DA.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 2, 2009 2:43 AM EST up reply actions
Wasn’t that the weirdest the timing in the world to insert BQ into the game?
Definitely. I felt the same when Anderson showed up in the 3rd game even though I was more of an Anderson fan. I can’t understand benching Anderson and throwing Quinn to the wolves in a totally lost game. Make Anderson play it out and sit in the muck he has created.
Brownsyup
http://cle.scout.com/2/915221.html
i know we hate cleveland.com, but this is a good article.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/11/browns_owner_randy_lerner_says.html
by emily522 on Nov 1, 2009 8:52 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
The dark side may have cookies, but they also have complete dumbasses.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
REC for the Scout.com article.
This made me laugh:
“Lerner was still extremely upset when he talked with several reporters afterward. Like the fans, he’s quite confused about what’s going on with the quarterback situation. Starting for the fifth straight game since taking over for Brady Quinn, Derek Anderson was just 6-of-17 passing for 76 yards, no touchdowns and two interceptions for a quarterback rating of – get this – 10.5.
Bo Derek was a perfect 10 in the movie "10" three decades ago. That was outstanding. Having a passing rating like that is just plain ugly."
Interesting that Lerner said " Maybe I should evaluate myself"
Daboll will be gone, I think that is certain. That is my belief.
Honestly, could you have seen improvement with Daboll at OC over the next couple of years, even when we do (hopefully) have good players?
I can’t imagine an offense being worse than this, so yes I think it would get a bit better. Probably still sub-par, a change would be okay.
If Lerner forces coach Mangini to fire Daboll, what does that really mean? If it was Mangini’s idea I’d think better of it but we’ll never know this. We see a series of events here that seem to indicate that Lerner is losing or has lost faith in coach Mangini: the appointment of Kosar, the comments after this last game, possible appointment of some kind of new “overseer”. Now if he forces Mangini to fire his guy Daboll, I believe the writing is definitely on the wall and it says “Coach For Hire, Apply Cleveland Browns”.
Is this the right move? Very hard to say at this point but how can you argue with how bad this team is statistically? They lead the entire NFL in about every statistical measurement of badness. Sure, you expect some setbacks with a complete tear down and a tough schedule but I would have expected some improvement week-to-week in some areas even if the team didn’t win. So how bad does the overall product have to be before you fault the author of the whole shebang? Is there a limit of how much time you give the head coach when the brakes fail, the wheels come off, the rats jump off and you are about to plunge over the edge of a 1000ft cliff?
Even though this is the coaches first year, even though he had little to work with, even though we had a very tough schedule, I believe we are getting close to that limit.
Brownsyup
most of your evidence of lerner losing faith in mangini is fine, but i don’t think the kosar hiring helps. I think that was more about the browns trying to get kosar back on his feet than anything else. Its not like he actually does anything for the team.
by notthatnoise on Nov 2, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Until we hear some specifics about just what it is Kosar is doing for the team, I’m assuming it’s a form of team welfare.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 2, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think that after the Savage email fiasco, the ides of a coach that keeps everything in house was appealing to Lerner. But now that he has a first hand look at the endless speculation and dissatisfaction generated by the near total lack of communication between the coaching staff / front office and the fans / media, he wants to find some middle ground between “go root for buffalo” and mum’s the word. Lerner’s statements after yesterday’s game tend to support this.
I think forcing Daboll out would be a targeted and moderate corrective action. It falls short of axing the whole regime but definitely indicates serious displeasure. It’s also squarely aimed at the weakest area of the team.
I’m all for giving this regime a chance and not pulling the plug too early, but the epic levels of ineptitude on offense are making me think something should be done. Firing Daboll seems like a good something.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 2, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Good reading, recommended.
Hmm, Lerner mad as hell. I look forward to what that leads to!
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
I mean it just doesn’t make sense. In Quinn’s 2.5 games he’s had better stats than any 2.5 games of DA’s this season. I think they put him in in the beginning to see if he was worth the money. I’m seriously hoping that tomorrow Lerner rids us of the cancer of Daboll and Quinn will be named starter because the money threat is gone.
I don’t think Lerner is an idiot. I think he can see through the fan hype and understand that the problem is the handle bar mustache, fat Hulk Hogan look alike Brian Daboll.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
That’d be epic, but I wouldn’t truly agree with it in a pure, illustrious FO background sense. Of which he has none. I don’t know how much FO verteranship comes from being an advisor.
And honestly, I had no clue we didn’t have a President of Operations. When did all this go to the crapper?
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
If Lerner is true to his word that it’ll be someone groomed for the position, I’d think that that would rule out both Brown and Kosar.
Could it be that Kokinis gets promoted? He’s been groomed for the position. I don’t know of anyone else within the organization who has been.
Crennel? He’s already on the payroll. He hasn’t necessarily been groomed for the position the way Kokinis has, but he knows more about football than everyone in the organization combined.
hmmm… crennel. that could be a possbility. if kokinis gets promoted, who would be GM? or can he be both?
i am glad that lerner’s going to step in though.
by emily522 on Nov 1, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ladies and Gentlemen. The new President of the Cleveland Browns: Phil Savage!!!
Wouldn’t that be funny? I can’t imagine what Learner is going to do. If he sees coach Mangini as a mistake I’d rather see him act sooner than later. I think at this point that is it becoming pretty clear that coach Mangini has lost the team. This could be an awfully interesting bye week.
Would a coach even come on mid-year? Would Lerner fire Kokinis and Mangini just to keep paying them? This is such a no-win situation. A tear down of the team in the middle of a current tear down. Sounds like a trap for anyone to come into. They’d have to be really desperate to return to the game. One more…
Ladies and Gentlemen, the new President of your Cleveland Browns: Marty Shottenheimer!
Brownsyup
I thought you were serious. I almost crapped my pants.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Hmmm… Who has the experience to take over as head of the Browns, would immediately placate the fans, and is currently unemployed?
Marty freakin’ Schottenheimer.
marty was sitting around doing nothing 9 months ago and lerner didn’t call him then.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
well, my point is that randy didn’t think marty was an option to help a browns team in disarray back in january. now that we’ve moved from “disarray” to “complete trainwreck”, i’m not sure he’d see marty as a guy who could contribute more at this stage.
plus, marty’s never been anything but a coach.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
I really hate the “bring back an old Cleveland legend” idea. Just because they were great here once as a player (or coach) doesn’t mean they’re qualified to work in the front office. Bringing in a person with name recognition might placate the fans but it won’t do any good for the team.
One thing I like about Shottenheimer is that he has one of the highest career winning percentages of any coach ever. And he has done it with three different teams. But I don’t think he is interested. I’d be very surprised if he was the guy. The pessimist in me (and believe me that pessimist is pretty huge right now) believes it will be a figurehead like Brown or Bernie… which will not help one bit.
Brownsyup
which i why i thought marty should be given a very hard look for the HC position in january.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
This is less a matter of “bring[ing] back an old Cleveland legend” than bringing in a guy who has won a lot of games, has rebuilt multiple franchises, and has an eye for coaching talent (Cowher, Dungy, Mike McCarthy, Wade Phillips, and others). The “Cleveland legend” bit is a bonus, for sure, but secondary to his impressive resume.
The only Cleveland legend I would welcome back with open arms is Ozzie.
And that is because he has proved himself.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 2, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wow. Nevermind. It was a sad attempt at sarcasm but I got shot down.
Ouch.
Haha. He was the GM that ran the Lions into the ground last year.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
He was the GM that ran the Lions into the groundlast year.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 2, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
You know I always liked Marty. Just the drafting of Mike Junkin over Shane Colin led him into a power struggle with Art.
But I think Marty would be a good choice, hell how could it be any worse.
I think Marty is great, but I don’t want Martyball. Do you guys want Martyball? I think you win in the NFL these days with the passing game, and Marty has always avoided it.
I would stab a hooker for Martyball.
Too much?
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 2, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
I love this. Lerner had a revelation and this is a good vibe revelation post. Good vibes, Good vibes.
same. i’m just really curious to see what happens. of course, i’ll find out way after everyone else on this board because i don’t get home until 3 each day!
Same for me. But I have the great ability of having a comp on hand all day. ;D
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Re: Lewis
I have been amongst the biggest Lewis hater around, but I’ve never questioned his heart or love for the game. In that sense, and that sense only, this is a bit of a sad day for him.
That said, this is great news for the Browns. He can waste no more offensive plays after this season. And hopefully he won’t start the rest of the way.
DD please read my comment on the newest noob posting. I took responsibility of being the first on the welcoming lit. You’re welcome.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
For him to bring this up at that time, Jamal really has to be fed up.
I bet it is taking everything in him not to quit right now.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
Which won’t matter. If you may a statement of quitting in the future, why wait?
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
I’m just saying, I feel for the guy. I dump on him a lot, but the guy deserves better than this.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
He did have a career that only had room to get better after he left Bal.
All he’s ever known is winning…
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
Think he was on the downside after he left Bal.I did not like the big money we gave him after 1 good year here.Much the same we gave DA.At that time we was giving cash away and it was ugly.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 1, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
He did have a career that only had room to get better with the right teamafter he left Bal.
Fixed.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t have an issue with the 1 year deal. I didn’t like the 3 year deal at all.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 1, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
That was what i meant as well.The 1 yr was not a bad thing the 3 yrs was not good at all.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 1, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
Re: Lerner
I think Lerner might just be desperate enough to do something rash this week. First, he is a self-admitted fan and as a fan, I’m sure he is disgusted, frustrated and embarrassed. This can lead to fans doing rash things.
Second, I think he is genuinely worried about losing fans, fans protesting, blackouts, more bad PR, etc. The right business decision is to get more involved. To become more of a face of the organization, or to find someone that can fill that roll. Kokinus is a ghost. Mangini is a Belicheck creep when it comes to PR. The fans need someone to talk them off the ledge a little, or explain some rationale behind moves.
I can’t imagine Daboll surviving the bye week. I’m sure Mangini will stick around though.
My wild dream scenario that will never happen: Mangini moved to front office- head of personel. Kosar named team president. Ryan named interim coach. Daboll fired.
My wild dream scenario that will never happen: Mangini moved to front office- head of personel. Kosar named team president. Ryan named interim coach. Daboll fired.
if mangini got fired, i’d want rob ryan to stay. that guy has a ton of passion on the sidelines. the numbers may not show it, but the defense is much improved this year. i like him.
wow i didn’t even reply to the quote. whoops, i hit post before i was finished.
but that would be pretty sweet.
I like him too. I’m don’t want to say the D is really that much better than last year (the defense during the Green Bay game was absolutely terrible), but I can see the generally strategy- and like the attacking nature of it versus Romeo’s version of the 3-4. I love the fire in his eyes and his personality. I think this would all lead to an enjoyable head coach. And at the very least I’d like him to stay as coordinator for a the foreseeable future.
I’m liking Ryan more and more, and I do think the D is coming along. Really the D is developmentally where I wish the whole team could be, growing and finding an identity even if the pieces aren’t all there yet.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 1, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
honestly, is there any reason except pure emotion to hope for bernie to have an influential role in this organization? how’d the gladiators do…
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
Actually good.
But then Arena tanked. Just like Bernie…
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
Actually good.
false. nice try, though.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
No?
I thought they were decent when I watched them.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
business-wise they were horrible. i don’t know about performance.
not totally fair, though, b/c, as you point out, arena was a disaster.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
That’s what I meant. Play wise. And the NFL should have adopted Arena as a d – league for rookies.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
Didn’t Bernie only have a part in the Gladiators for like a year and a half before the league went under?? And didn’t they improve greatly in that year and a half?
I don’t think this is indicative of anything regarding how he would do as a team president or any other position with the Cleveland Browns, but is there a reason to be unnecessarily negative?
Is there any reason besides pure emotion? No. But do I have any other options or anything else to base an opinion on any real choices? No.
I love Bernie so much, and he was such a childhood hero of mine, that I wouldn’t want to tarnish that memory by seeing him screw up as the president of the Browns.
by Chemo on Nov 2, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Next year.
Keep your young players. Trade what we can for draft picks. Bye bye Quinn. DA is untradeable, he should be cut at the end of the season. We need a true #1 receiver ans a real QB. Plus we need help on the O line. We need many, many picks next year so we can bundle them and move up to get impact players that will make the team better. We also need an entire new coaching staff. mangina has shown he can’t do it.
You only get impact players once your base is in place.The issue witht he Browns is there is no base at this time.There is one in the works with the O line but we are still missing a RT.D line not sure what ot think of them right now.Just don’t feel lilke we have the players for a 3-4 defense set up.
Before we start trading picks to move up we need to fill are holes with role players eather from FA or the draft.Don’t make much sense to trade up unless we are on the edge of competeing.Trading down for more picks at this time could be good.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 1, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
Or ever did.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 2, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Does Manpenis do any better? I was thinking of breaking that out one day soon.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
It was a failed attepmt at a joke to the less intelligent.
My apologizes.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
For those that haven’t seen Jamal Lewis’ quotes after the game, here are some;
“Where are we trying to go and what are we trying to accomplish?”
I have been saying this for weeks.
[Lewis] said he is so distraught with the way this season has gone south after “everybody bought in” in training camp that this would be his last season of playing.
“Period. Point blank. I’ve done what I needed to do,” Lewis said.
I said it elsewhere, I feel badly for Jamal. A guy like him shouldn’t have to go through this crap.
“When I talk, I mean what I say,”
This Browns locker room could be much uglier than even I thought.
I would like to see a thrown trash can or two.
WE NEED PASSION! COME ON! A CAPTAIN HAS GIVEN UP!
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
ALSO I LAUGHT AT MOST MEDIA AND PEOPLE WHO SAID THIS KICK OFF PROTEST ISNT GOING TO WORK.. well looks like the owner is finally pissed off.. and going to do something about it
this shit is going to drive me crazy. the above quote is from the comments section of the doerschuck post linked at the beginning of chris’ post. how many morons are going to attribute credit for lerner’s pissed-ness and impending top-down review to this stupid protest? i weep for the future…
isn’t it obvious? lerner’s mad because of the fan protest, not because he finally saw how sucky this team is with his own eyes today. we haven’t even started huddling up in the restrooms before the kickoff yet. that’s 2 weeks away, and he’s already taking notice! we’re all geniuses.
(jk)
I say we huddle in the restrooms anyways! It’ll be fun!
Go ahead Mike, I’m gonna watch Cribbs run one back!
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
Like I mentioned above, I think the protest does have something to do with this. Just like any business, when you are dealing with a clientele that is upset enough to organize a boycott or protest of some sort, you have to evaluate why you have gotten to that position and if there is somethign you can do to address it.
The Browns really have no mechanism to handle this type of terrible PR because there is no trusted face to the organization. Remember when Mangini was announced as coach and some no name (or was it actually nobody at all) introduced him?
We don’t know a lot about Randy Lerner, except that: 1.) he is a big Browns fan, and 2.) he is probably a decent business man. A fan protest lead by some of the most recognizable and respected fans of the team is going to get your attention, as a fan and as a business man.
I’m not saying the protest is a good idea, and I don’t think it has a clear direction, but it certainly has to concern Lerner. And has a least something to do with his open frustration and presence around the team yesterday.
i find it hard to compare sports teams to regular businesses though. it isn’t really the same thing. people aren’t as passionate about clothing, or phones, or cookies, as they are about sports teams. plus, if i use a product and its bad, then i tell the company, they could much more easily fix it. fixing a bad football team doesn’t work that way. complaining about it and refusing to show up can’t fix it.
I agree that it is often a bad comparison. But I’m just saying, whether you look at this as a non-sports business man- which Lerner is, or if you look at this as a pure fan of the Browns- which Lerner is, you come to the same conclusion that you need to become more vocal and more active in the team.
i just don’t think news of the protest has anything to do with that. randy sees what we see…he was furious before the protest was announce and before the bears game
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 2, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I think the protest thing is a small part of the overall bad press and feel. There were so many bold pronouncements of anger after the game, as though it was any different than any thing else we’ve seen (although I was amazed that DA was able to lower his QB rating significantly in this game. wow), so here’s what I believe.
I think it’s all PR. Hell, I think they had a meeting or memo about it, as in “we need to show that we hate losing and that we are as sick and disgusted as our customers.” They’re not going to start firing people, or making any changes. Maybe they’ll give Brady his chance now that the bonus money has passed. I think Mangini, and probably Lerner, decided weeks ago that this team would be bottomed out/blown apart, and rebuilt over a couple of years. It’s just a matter of presenting the right face while you do it.
I think you are mostly right on here.
Though, I do think its a mix. PR mixed with honest fan-style emotional frustration by Lerner.
I don’t blame Lewis. Who want to play for a team that doesn’t put the best players on the field. They sold their big contracts for pennies and won’t play Quinn due to a contract bonus. If he doesn’t play Monday night, I may officially right off the Browns for life. They wouldn’t do this nonsense in Pittsburgh.
Well of course, because the people they gve bonuses too are proven. And the people we sold off were negative in the locker room, bad on the field and unless they were going to have a meraculous turn about, all we could get for them was pennies. And who do you think is a good player not on the field? The rookies? Just because they’re semingly good players in they’re position doesn’t mean they’re plug and play. And if you’re talking about Quinn, yes now we know he’s at least better than DA but did we know that about 4 weeks ago? No, Quinn looked bad and the team needed a morale booster.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
Anyone have any info on Pool getting benched? He has actually had a few turnovers this year, so I am wondering if his coverage has been atrocious outside of that to get benched.
So… can we bench Lewis now? He probably won’t play with the intensity that we need.
Based on his words, I see it as a "We suck. I quit. I’m too old for this crap".
If he wants to leave, we should let him. It’s not like he makes us a run threat on the field.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
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