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Around SBN: Dan Marino Starting College For Developmentally Disabled

I must say I found this article absolutely fascinating. A must read for any Browns fan.

about 2 years ago Rogerdorn_tiny Roger Dorn 94 comments 3 recs  | 

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Very interesting to hear him talk like that; it’s certainly a different impression than you get from him publicly or hear about in the media. Thanks for the link.

by Buckeye Brad on Nov 10, 2009 5:34 PM EST reply actions  

The question is, was it a puff piece from a friend for a coach who is on his desperate last legs? Or has Mangini had this clear vision the whole time? If the latter is true, why has he had such a difficult time expressing these thoughts to the Cleveland public?

by Roger Dorn on Nov 10, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Those are two extremely excellent questions. Obviously, I have no insight into either, but I would love to know the answers.

by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 10, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

This interview didn’t surprise me at all. Mangini talks likes this in his press conferences all the time.

I think he gets vilified by the media because he:
1. Doesn’t give much information freely or answer direct questions
2. Isn’t winning
3. Wears a scowl on game day

by Bumblyjack on Nov 10, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s exactly what I’m wondering. Why can’t he talk like that to the media, even occasionally? I understand that some people aren’t comfortable talking in front of a lot of people like that, but he’s got to show the fans that he knows what he’s doing and he hasn’t done that enough this season.

by Buckeye Brad on Nov 10, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he does say a lot of these things, but it comes off as cliche in press conferences. I think it is part he is uncomfortable and part that the press room can take on an adversarial feel.

I do agree that he has to communicate these things to the media and the public in a better way.

by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 10, 2009 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

i agree with this, he does express a lot of this to the media, in fact there was plenty in that article he had already said, such as naming his kids after football players.

I think the problem is these types of questions aren’t always the kind that are asked in press conferences. this interview didn’t ask if brady quinn was starting next week, it asked the broader question of “does he have a future in cleveland?”

by notthatnoise on Nov 11, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know. He’s comparing everything to what New England was before Tom Brady. I mean, yeah, if you get lucky enough to draft Tom Brady in the 6th round, then things have a way of working out. Not that I’m discounting what New England has done; pretty obviously Belichick is a great coach who got better as he gained experience. This could happen to Mangini, but the odds are against it. Also, the constant comparing the way the media reacted to him and Bill Belichick is kind of weird.

He does sound like a reasonable guy in this article which is way more than I expected.

by Cols714 on Nov 10, 2009 6:14 PM EST reply actions  

But you don’t have to draft a great QB in the 6th round, you can draft a great QB in the 1st or 2nd round. The point is that the Browns need to find a great (or at least very good) QB if they want to build a great team, but they don’t need to find one late in the draft. That will probably never happen again. The Patriots were built on a lot more than Brady, though.

by Buckeye Brad on Nov 10, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed … I really hate when people think Brady is this amazing QB that a franchise was built off of. I think now, yes he is a very good QB. But in the beginning he was nothing. He is a product of a great environment and system. If we can find someone in the 1st or 2nd round that actually is a great QB and then put him into a good system … who knows what could happen.

The question then becomes … who do you think this could be. I’m not really sold on any QBs this year. Mostly because I don’t watch a ton of college ball. Anybody have any ideas?

by jsneides on Nov 10, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t mean to imply that Brady wasn’t a great QB, because he definitely was. He wasn’t a system QB — look at the running backs and wide receivers he worked with when they won 3 Super Bowls. They were a bunch of nobodys. Brady made them great on offense.

by Buckeye Brad on Nov 10, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d also add that what Mangini said about Brady is that he got where he is now because of hard work and dedication. He came in as a 6th round draft pick. Not exactly someone you draft in hopes that he becomes a great player and carries the franchise. It seems like Brady had all the things that Mangini keeps talking about: He was intelligent and worked hard. So I think that is the reason he is so great. Not because he was brought in to an awesome team or offense or whatever.

by shep615 on Nov 10, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the without Tom Brady, Belichick in New England looks almost exactly as Belichick in Cleveland. In both cases Belichick got some average players to buy into his system, but that wasn’t enough. There was much grumbling from a few of the better talents (didn’t he suspend a “star” receiver for the entire season?). But once he got Tom Brady to show up, play within the system, and excel, it was easy to get good to great players to buy into it. It does not happen without Brady. Without Brady, they would have middling success for 4-5 years followed by the usual discontent (it is tough to get 53 people aligned if you are not having great success). With Brady, they win, there is a buy in, and the rest is history.

Belichick clearly is involved with Brady’s success. But Tom Brady is integral to Belichick’s success.

by oxforddave on Nov 11, 2009 9:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I think it is significant to point out that New England won 11 games last year without Tom Brady. They only missed the play-offs because their conference was dominant and their schedule softer than others by a couple of games. Not to say that Brady isn’t a significant part of that team but that building excellence is more than just a good QB.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Nov 11, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d actually say it is the other way around. Like Brownsyup said, New England was still a very good team without Brady last year. And they were a solid team under Belichick before Brady emerged as a superstar.

Belichick has been great at installing a culture and consistency. But he has also been great at adding talent. AND he has been great at adjusting his schemes and systems to the strengths of his personnel. AND he is great at exploiting the weaknesses of his opponents.

He has won with stars, without stars, with explosive, record setting offenses, with stout defenses, and with smoke and mirrors. He is a great coach. Tom Brady isn’t Tom Brady in most other situations.

by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 11, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I wholeheartedly disagree. Belichick has 1 playoff season out of 6 without Tom Brady. His record before Brady was 41-57. His regular season record after Brady (in the games that Brady plays) is 90-28.

But the main point of my post (and how it relates to the Browns) is that you need players to buy into your system, especially if you preach discipline (like Mangini is trying to do). How do you get players to buy in? Winning. Why did they win? I think Tom Brady has a little to do with this (see above). Right now, every player will do what Belichick asks as they know that if they do, they are very likely to win. So now Belichick’s shtick will work even without Brady (though obviously not as well).

by oxforddave on Nov 11, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I get your “main point”, and its not that I totally disagree. But I do think that Belichick (and Mangini and Parcells) believe that the first step is to get guys that know the culture (aka “their guys”) and already are able to buy into it. THEN you have the foundation to add talent-first guys.

Also, while Belichick didn’t start racking up the wins, division titles, and rings until he had Brady as his QB, Brady wasn’t a superstar right away. And he won without him last year.

by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 11, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I will always believe that Belichick in NE would have ended up like Belichick in Cleveland if not for Tom Brady.

by oxforddave on Nov 11, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s very hard for any coach to win for a extended period without a great QB.

by Buckeye Brad on Nov 11, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I generally disagree. See Steelers, Titans, etc. A top 2 or 3 QB makes winning a lot easier, but its not necessary.

by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 11, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, just noticed that.

Yup. I’m going to be writing and posting some front page articles now and I wanted a more current and honest name.

by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 11, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

You’re one of the new minions? Excellent.

by golanbatrac on Nov 11, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

What was the old user name? I can’t keep up.

by Roger Dorn on Nov 11, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Got it, I figured it out below. Great news having DD as a minion.

by Roger Dorn on Nov 11, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice going, DD – I mean, RK! I look forward to what’s sure to be some good reading.

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 12, 2009 12:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks guys, hope you are enjoying my first post.

by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 12, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Also grats.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Nov 12, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Ben is a very good QB. He’s not top 2 or 3, but very good. And the Titans haven’t been a consistantly great team. They were great last season and have been good but not great most other years.

by Buckeye Brad on Nov 11, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Excellent interview.

by golanbatrac on Nov 10, 2009 6:28 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks for the Link - Enjoyed It

The only thing I didn’t like is where Mangini says I don’t like excuses, but we got the flu, CB rolled his car, James Davis hurt etc. If you are going to say you don’t like excuses then don’t list them.

Personally, if Mangini works with new leader, and it seems like he would, I would like to see him succeed. But unless he starts honestly looking at why the team, especially the offense, is not improving week to week – I am afraid he is one and done.

by realmccoy on Nov 10, 2009 6:39 PM EST reply actions  

It has gotta be hard not to make excuses when people are asking for them from you. I wonder if that plays a part in him not opening up much to the media.

by rufio on Nov 11, 2009 12:50 AM EST up reply actions  

This was a good article. I think Mangini expressed some things that a lot of people were thinking or at least hoping were in his mind. I have to admit that as a fan it has been getting awfully hard to remember that he is trying to rebuild and that it will take time. That has been very hard to keep in mind while watching what has been on the field, and it’s been very hard to keep from looking for someone to blame.

I still think his handling of the QB situation has been totally jacked up, but it just may be that he doesn’t have as much to work with as he initially thought. Still I really hope we start to see some sort of progress with the offense in the second half of the season.

by JustBob on Nov 10, 2009 6:54 PM EST reply actions  

Very interesting interview. Couple things stood out to me:
- He seems confident in his job security.
- Mangini seems like a person that is much better at communicating in a 1-on-1 setting versus a group. I don’t know how this translates to addressing the team, but whether its the L. Coles story or this entire interview, he seems like a very different person when you get to deal with him on an individual level. Not saying this is good or bad, just notable.
- That was a pretty impressive list of draft picks for New York. And I’m pretty high on his draft last year at this point. I’m comfortable with him having major input in drafting going forward.
- Hiring the former head of officials seems like a good idea. And leading the league in penalties is something. Especially after last year. He coaches the officials that are at practice and heads up the challenges for the game. Good stuff.

by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 10, 2009 8:50 PM EST reply actions  

I wonder how comparable the whole Shaun Rogers debacle was to how he described the L Coles thing.

by Nat on Nov 10, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought the exact same thing when reading that portion of the interview.

by golanbatrac on Nov 10, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course he’s a reasonable guy, anyone who watches his press conferences knows he’s not an ogre. But honestly, in this article, Mangini simply continues to say pretty much the same things he says in all his press conferences. Sure, we get a little bit more depth and insight, but the thing that really disturbs me is the whole ‘this is a process,’ ‘this is going to take time.’

Well, of course it is…no one is disputing that. However, I believe things didn’t have to get this bad…

What bears scrutiny is he never really comes out and says ’we’re going to have to get worse before we get better…sooo do we? Because we ARE worse. MUCH, MUCH worse. I know its a pipe dream but in a perfect world I would like to interrogate him IN DEPTH about Kokinis, the QB’s, and about Daboll (Is he a ‘process’ too? Because we don’t NEED to have an OC in ‘development…and we shouldn’t.) Bad team or not, Mangini’s decision making has been, from what we can see and are privy too…very, very questionable. Nice guy or not. No matter what he says, the QB situation was handled badly. Kokinis…well, my moneys on him overstepping HIS bounds and not vice versa. I think after everything’s officially over we deserve to know exactly what happened, warts and all. THAT situation also makes us worse, because getting rid of your GM mid season certainly doesn’t make us any BETTER, and our stock around the league is at absolutely zero-point-zero.

How long is this going to take? At this point I don’t want to hear the good ole 5 year plan. That just sounds like job-security talk to me. I want a guy who believes and says we can win, and win NOW, regardless of talent. If it takes a master stroke of coaching to do that with these players…then so be it. We need a guy like THAT. Realistic, maybe not, but extraordinarily bad times require extraordinary people to deal with them. Is that what we have in Mangini? I think what we’d hear from him would be that becoming extraordinary is a ‘process.’

Alright fine, Eric. But THIS particular ‘process,’ sucks. And sucks BAD.

http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/come_on_cavs.mp3

by johnnyphoenix on Nov 10, 2009 9:32 PM EST reply actions  

so you want to bring in some extraordinary coach to instantly become a super bowl contender, and this coach is currently unemployed and wants to come to cleveland. unrealistic is a massive understatement.

by notthatnoise on Nov 11, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

No, but is too much to ask a guy come in and not have statistically one of the worst offenses and defenses in all the NFL?

We are getting outscored by almost 17 points a game. We are in danger of besting the 92 Seahawks for fewest points scored in a 16 schedule. We are bad, but I have a hard time thinking we were this bad before the season.

by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 11, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry for the rant, it’s just gets depressing watching games like steelers/broncos, and seeing how a good team plays…and what we have to look forward to in comparison.

http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/come_on_cavs.mp3

by johnnyphoenix on Nov 10, 2009 9:46 PM EST reply actions  

I feel your pain man. I hate seeing my team lose as much as the next. And I hate not being able to talk smack to my roommate who is a die-hard Steelers fan. I hate that I will never put a Steelers player on my fantasy football team because I hate them so much, but I also hate that I won’t put a Browns player on my fantasy football team because they would make my team lost. I hate that my team proves Murphy’s Law to be true over and over again, week in and week out.

But I am going to be honest with you. I think it’s completely ridiculous to think that anything we could have done differently would have taken us to the playoffs this year. We simply don’t have a team that can do it, and even having Bill Belichik or Mike Shannahan or Bill Cowher or anyone else would be able to come in and magically wave their hand and produce wins. The way you build a winning team in football is with ability and hard work. Right now, we only really have only hard work. But ability comes from hard work, and when they’re put together you have a consistent winning team (New England Patriots, for example). The whole new coach coming in and “inspiring the talent-deprived undisciplined team to beat the odds and go to the championship game and lose in the final seconds” is MTV movie crap. If it does happen, it happens very rarely (unless I’m missing something… I haven’t been around the sports world for very long compared to others but I haven’t seen it).

As far as firing Kokinis being a step back… What? It’s my understanding from what I’ve read and seen myself (or rather haven’t seen) that he didn’t really do much anyway. I don’t see how it’s a step back, especially if/when we bring someone in to do the job he was supposed to do.

If you measure being much much worse strictly in a win/loss sense, then of course we’re much worse. Anyone can look at a 1-7 record and say it’s worse than last year. But if you look beyond the lack of wins (that we realistically should have expected anyway), you’ll see improvement. Like coach said, we’re working on becoming a team full of good people on and off the field, people that we as fans can be proud of. Quite frankly, I’d rather have the team we have now that seems to be full of class acts as opposed to… Oh, say… A Philedelphia Eagles team that goes to the Super Bowl, but you always have to answer to the fact that “Oh yeah, that’s a talented team, but look at TO. He’s a mouthy idiot.” Or a Bengals team that sputters like it did last year and has people like “Ochocinco” (man, what a… douche? can I say that here?) still mouthing off. Or a 10-7 Browns team with a TE that breaks his contract and gets injured on a motorcycle and a WR that goes against coach’s orders and flies a chopper to the OSU vs. Michigan game. Also, like Mangini said, we are first in the league in penalties. We have young guys that came in on D and played a pretty decent game last week. We have improved, it just hasn’t translated into wins yet. Surprised? I am not.

It really is a process. Of course, people are going to make mistakes. Maybe the QB situation wasn’t handled superbly. Maybe the guy hired at GM didn’t work out. But, like coach said, it’s all about getting the right people in place. It’s a process. I’m pretty confident that 99 out of 100 extraordinary teams had to go through a process to get there. I understand the frustration, I really do. But I think we have an awful lot of good things to look forward to. It just may not be all flowers and sunshine getting there. So… Hang in there :-)

by shep615 on Nov 11, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Great find, Dorn.

by rufio on Nov 11, 2009 1:08 AM EST reply actions  

I agree, I am not going to apologize…I am pulling for this guy. The second half of the season is going to give his young players some good games to grow and be successful in. Detroit, KC, Oak and Jags. (chargers at home…maybe). Thanks again for the article.

by Red-Right-88 on Nov 11, 2009 8:18 AM EST up reply actions  

i’ve been a fan of his from the start, but i admit my confidence was fading fast. now i’m definitely pulling for him, and i agree that with the upcoming schedule we could finally see some real progress.

by notthatnoise on Nov 11, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks, great article. I was shocked by some of the answers, hope he really feels this way and just not worried about losing his job. I think if we can bring in a solid VP of football operations with a lot of experience it could result in some positives for the franchise finally..

Joey_D

by Joey_D on Nov 11, 2009 6:29 AM EST reply actions  

You know what I don’t like about this interview? It’s the underlying implication: Mangini cannot be attacked because he’s building a “high character system”. Well that’s all well and good, but that speaks nothing to his abilities as a football coach. His track record remains dubious. The results so far are disastrous. He may turn out to be, plainly, a bad coach.

Maybe he’s a great person and, if he were to succeed, having done so with caring, compassionate, upstanding players and personnel would make it that much sweeter – but nothing about being a good person necessarily translates to the outstanding football acumen necessary for success at this level.

This whole interview is designed, whether by Mangini or Judge or both, to create a emotional and sympathetic excuse/distraction from the on-the-field disaster.

I’m also not buying the comparisons to the NE situation for one main reason – nothing about Bill Belichick exudes this character-driven approach. The man was implicated, by Mangini no less, for cheating. He’s also a known adulterer (fun word). He brought in guys like Randy Moss, who have had numerous off field issues. Rodney Harrison was known as one of the dirtiest players in the game. Tom Brady, gets his kicks trying to slap the ball out of an opponent’s hands after running out of bounds. Their system isn’t based on character; it’s based on football excellence, so stop trying to correlate the two, Mangini.

Also: terrible job interviewing. Clark lets this whole interview be crafted to look as positive as possible, when there is far more than enough reason and room to question both Mangini’s replies and his results. Clark Judge demonstrates a JoBo-esque fastball in this interview.

Maybe with more time Mangini can right the ship, I don’t know. I remain, however, as always but more so than ever extremely skeptical.

by danvail on Nov 11, 2009 10:26 AM EST reply actions  

i don’t think you read the questions. the interviewer essentially asks “wouldn’t it be better to win than be high character?” two or three times.

by notthatnoise on Nov 11, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

I disagree. Why shouldn’t Mangini get a chance to state his case? Nobody in the Cleveland media has given him such an opportunity, and that’s squarely on the Cleveland media. They’ve been antagonistic about Mangini since day one.

Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.

by woodsmeister on Nov 11, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

you seriously think this is on the cleveland media? are you telling me that you think tony grossi hasn’t asked the browns for a one-on-one with mangini? probably 1,000 times? you’re fooling yourself.

by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 11, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

On the other hand, I can’t blame Mangini for turning down a hack like Grossi a thousand times either.

by golanbatrac on Nov 11, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Has he asked before or after he started trashing Mangini relentlessly?

by rufio on Nov 12, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, that would be like obama going on glenn beck’s show

by notthatnoise on Nov 13, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought the questions were good, I think the comparisons are OK, over time we will see, just like anything else.

by Red-Right-88 on Nov 11, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s the follups that were severely lacking in tooth.

by danvail on Nov 11, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Like others have said, take another look at the questions. Judge kept going back to the “yeah, that sounds real nice, but what about the wins?” Of course, Mangini is going to talk about his successes and strengths.

I think Judge does well to show that hey, Mangini might suck as a coach, he might get fired, but its not because he isn’t trying. And he is a good guy. This was a response to that Rolling Stone piece. And I think it was a good one.

by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 11, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Letting him shape the interview into a puff piece is where Judge failed.

I think Judge does well to show that hey, Mangini might suck as a coach, he might get fired, but its not because he isn’t trying.

Except that is not the overall tone set out by the piece.

And he is a good guy.

That’s the overall tone. And it creates sympathy for an individual, without properly separating personal and professional criticisms. No sane Browns fan wants to personally attack or cause harm to Eric Mangini. They simply want to see wins.

This was a response to that Rolling Stone piece. And I think it was a good one.

As an interviewer, why bother to mention wins at all if you’re just trying to respond to personal criticisms? You’re tying personal and professional criticisms together in a way that obligates the reader to absolve Mangini of both because he’s such a dandy, wholesome, hard-working, lunch-pail, hard-hat, rootin-tootin good feller.

This whole piece is either misguided and confused or intentionally misleading.

by danvail on Nov 11, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s the question I have with it. Was the writer trying to find out the truth or did he have the intention of making Mangini look good?

by Roger Dorn on Nov 11, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Here are some of the questions Judge asked:

Q: Last week Washington owner Daniel Snyder said he was “disappointed” and “embarrassed” by his team’s performance. Do you share similar sentiments about this team?

Q: But great things haven’t happened to this team. Did the Browns have to take two steps back to take one step forward?

Q: The problem with a long-term plan is that you’re on the clock, and time is a luxury you may not have. Having an owner who understands that is crucial.

Q: What or where has been the biggest source of disappointment?

Q: Has that criticism or this streak of futility affected the way you go about your job?

Q: I’ve seen some teams that have trouble scoring, but nothing like this … and I mean dating back to last year. What’s going on?

Q: One writer said the worst thing that happened to you was getting hired immediately after you were fired in New York; that it didn’t give you time to analyze what you did wrong in New York. Any truth to that?

Q: I know you’ve been reluctant to discuss what happened to Kokinis, and your owner is not one who is easily quoted. But don’t you think the Browns fans here and across the country deserve an explanation from someone about what happened? And without a GM and with an owner who is all but reclusive, who is that someone?

Q: Tell me, then, if I’m a season-ticket holder here, given what happened with your GM and what is happening on the field this year, why should I believe there is hope for this team now or in the future?

Q: That’s fine, except this is a team that scored nine points the last two games. How do you convince people that is progress?

Q: You can collect the best people in the world in a locker room, but it doesn’t matter if you don’t win.

Q: So tell me why you will do something right for Cleveland; why you’re the right man for this franchise, and why Browns fans should trust that in the end everything will work out OK.

Q: But the public perception of you and this team is so sour that it may be difficult for you to attract players and keep the good ones unless that image changes. So it’s imperative to change it, wouldn’t you agree?

There were some questions about specific people or instances (Quinn, Edwards, the bus trip, Belichick), but this was the meat of the questions asked. I think that is as direct as you can get to asking what the heck is wrong with the team.

by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 11, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Like I said above, his followups are completely lacking. He simply lets Mangini answer and then moves on, no matter the response. In some points he doesn’t even ask the question (like on the Kokinis situation – he just asked if Mangini thought fans deserved an answer). If you are driving towards answers as to what is wrong with the team, then ask the bloody question. Don’t tiptoe around it and try to guilt trip him into answering.

Regardless, my point was that this interview is either confused and misguided or its intentionally misleading.

Confused and misguided:

What is the interviewers goal here? You state here that it’s trying to answer the professional criticisms / the lack of results: “I think that is as direct as you can get to asking what the heck is wrong with the team.”
But then prior to that you state it’s a response to the personal attacks: “I think Judge does well to show that hey, Mangini might suck as a coach, he might get fired, but its not because he isn’t trying. And he is a good guy. This was a response to that Rolling Stone piece. And I think it was a good one.”

Well, those are not the same goal. As a reader, you’ve rightly shown that the interview either lacks purpose or fails to achieve it’s goals. The question I have is just what the hell were you trying to accomplish here, Clark Judge? Mangini has provided nothing throughout this interview other than to say, “I’m a really good guy who works really hard and you should like me more.” Good job. Somebody go get a Pulitzer.

Intentionally misleading:

You listed the questions directly above. On the surface, they largely seem like direct questions asked by someone trying to figure out why the Browns look so terrible. Yet, no information that speaks to that (other than perhaps the penalties stats) was provided by Mangini. He provides answers that blame the players, that imply that the Browns are improving despite evidence to the contrary, that imply that a handful of mistakes are to blame for all our woes. It’s disingenuous, it’s misleading, it’s bullsh*t. What does Judge do? Asks the next question. Read the exchange on the offense if you don’t believe me (Q: I’ve seen some teams that have trouble scoring, but nothing like this … and I mean dating back to last year. What’s going on?)

The point is, are you intentionally allowing Mangini to say whatever he wants, tugging on heartstrings and blaming others, or are you just spineless and afraid of asking followups? My money is on spineless. Or maybe incompetent as a journalist.

by danvail on Nov 11, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

When I say that Judge shows that Mangini might suck as a coach and might get fired. But that he is a good guy… I mean that is the takeaway from the article.

Part of that is to clearly state that the team is really messed up and trying to understand why. Judge tries to do this too.

On the intentionally misleading front- you are right, the answers aren’t always responsive to the questions. That is the reality for political types, sports figures, and others that deal with the media often. Don’t like the question? Just answer the one that you wish was asked. Now if you think it was disingenuous misleading bull, well ok. But that is a criticism of Mangini and the fact that he has been schooled in dealing with the media, not a criticism of Judge. And personally, I disagree. I don’t think Mangini comes off as disingenuous at all.

Now, is he spineless to ask follow ups? First, I think a couple were followups. Q: If I was a fan why should I believe or have hope for the future? A: we are doing some good things with good character and no penalties blah blah. Q: That’s fine, except your team scored 9 points in the last 2 games, How do you convince people that is progress?

THAT is a great follow up. Text book really. It gives a good response to the answer given, it reinforces the interviewers point and re-asks the question in a stronger way. After more of the same from Mangini about having the right guys, Judge puts it bluntly, “You can have the best guys in the world, but it doesn’t matter if you don’t win.”

Honestly, I don’t know what more you want from the guy. I’m usually pretty harsh on journalists, and I’d like to see Judge go a little deeper at some points here. But for today’s (admittedly low) standards, this was a very well-done, professional interview.

by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 11, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

aha. Daytondogg is Ryan Kelsey

by Roger Dorn on Nov 11, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

That is weird for me to read.

by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 12, 2009 9:20 AM EST up reply actions  

That one was a good follow-up, he needed about ten more like it. I’m going to review the article like I said below, so anyone interested can see where I’d coming from.

by danvail on Nov 12, 2009 8:07 AM EST up reply actions  

There was one point where Mangini sort of sidestepped a question and Judge didn’t follow up, but all in all, these were substantive questions and Mangini’s answers were substantive as well. It doesn’t seem at all like a ‘puff piece’ to me.

by golanbatrac on Nov 11, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe I should just review the piece line by line. I think people are so used to hearing nothing but contrived and vanilla answers that they look at this and think there is substance here. What did Mangini tell you that you didn’t already know?

by danvail on Nov 11, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe I should just review the piece line by line.

I think you should.

by golanbatrac on Nov 11, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I started, it’s a long piece. I’ll try to finish it tomorrow and post is as a FanPost.

by danvail on Nov 11, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m looking forward to it.

by golanbatrac on Nov 11, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

i think people are so used to puff pieces that they look at this and see a bunch of softball questions.

I didn’t know about the Coles story, i was pleased to hear mangini say he made a mistake with the rookie bus thing. those are just the first two that come to mind.

by notthatnoise on Nov 12, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Puff pieces to me are usually not direct interviews, unless the questions are clearly all favorable. Some of these questions are pretty direct about the poor play of the team. It is not the interviewer’s job to take a position on the responses given, just to ask open-ended questions. This isn’t the same as the real news.

by Roger Dorn on Nov 12, 2009 9:09 AM EST up reply actions  

i think you misinterpreted my post, i actually believe this was an outstanding interview, i was trying to respond using the same form as danvail, because i think he got it backwards. then i stated what mangini told me that i didn’t already know, like he asked.

by notthatnoise on Nov 13, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I was agreeing with you, just making the point as a reply to your post that I agreed with.

by Roger Dorn on Nov 15, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Eric Mangini is a great find, and will be valuable to our franchise for a long time.
I would expect him to break off all ties to his former alliances and serve the Browns wholeheartedly.
Hiring players he´s seen up close and personal, fine. But bringing a GM, that was previously with a division rival the Baltimore Ravens, and filling all the coaching jobs with guys from the New York Jets, does not seem right to me.
We will retain him if he stops playing sponsor to people from other organisations.
He has been a defensive coordinator in the past. He can be defensive coordinator for a while. But I see his talents better represented in maybe the scouting department or even as a player go to guy.
Randy Lerner has said, he will support Eric Mangini, to remain the head coach for a while longer, and I agree, if only to show we want him to stay with the Cleveland Browns. I had indicated, that he can make a few more changes, before his luck runs out. I´m hoping he starts with the coaching staff.

by mooncamping on Nov 11, 2009 10:33 AM EST reply actions  

What I forgot to say is, I like him. He should stay.

by mooncamping on Nov 11, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

The real problem is coaching philosophy, though.
When he talks about “complementary football”, it hurts my player heart. You don´t complement your opponent in any way, on the field. You beat them.
I hope we can get Lou Holtz as head coach, and maybe he´ll mentor Eric Mangini as a defensive coordinator. He really needs to get exposed to some real football.

by mooncamping on Nov 11, 2009 10:50 AM EST reply actions  

He’s talking about Browns players complimenting each other…

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Nov 11, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

He sure comes off well in that interview – reasonable, knowledgeable and a man with a blueprint for success.

Let’s see what the second half brings. If it’s more of the same, he’ll go down as an epic bust and will have plenty of time for lengthy interviews.

If the team manages to crawl to 4 wins, do we still keep him around though? Probably.

by Pruitt on Nov 11, 2009 10:54 AM EST reply actions  

Two thoughts here…
First, like most people in the limelight, coach Mangini is getting inaccurately portrayed by the media. The more I read and watch the modern media the more I think that everything we watch, see and hear from the main-stream press is total garbage. If you’ve ever been close to a story reported nationally you know that the facts get so lost in the frenzy that in the end, there is one ounce of truth for every ton of fluff, bias, conjecture and misinformation.
Second, it is easy to see why he might have been hired so quickly in the first place. Say anything you want about the guy, he is very slick in an interview. He is bright, he keeps his head, he avoids hyperbole and he makes you want to get up on your house, bow towards Browns Stadium, shed a tear for Paul Brown and wave a giant Browns flag. It would seem that he would interview quite well. He must have knocked Lerner’s socks off in fact!
I’ve heard many on this site talk about building for the future and long-term thinking when it comes to building a winning team. Coach Mangini seems to have this over-arching goal. Will his abilities be up to snuff in reaching this goal? Let’s find out.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Nov 11, 2009 11:58 AM EST reply actions  

I Have Liked Mangini from the Start - BUT

The fan base is more patient thant people think. We are all willing to lose this year if we feel that we are on the right track.

Mangini has 2 related problems to solve this year.

1. Why is the team not improving week to week?
2. Why are the QBs regressing week to week?

I want to see him succeed – but without progress in those 2 areas – I think he should be whacked. I could care less about his public persona.

by realmccoy on Nov 11, 2009 1:07 PM EST reply actions  

Great article. Shows a different side of Mangini.

That being said, I don’t care how or what he names his kids. Why do we have the worst offense in football? Other than penalties, what area is this team getting any better in?

by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 11, 2009 3:29 PM EST reply actions  

Offense has the furthest way to go. If we are not seeing any sort of improvement by the end of the season, we have major concerns about even being competitive next year as well. That said, we need major talent upgrades at the offensive skill positions across the board.

by Roger Dorn on Nov 11, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep, unless Daboll is fired and replaced with someone much better. Then we could have reason to expect improvement next year.

The talent we have right now should be able t score 14ish points per game, which should be good enough for our defense to keep us competitive in every game except a few and to win us more than 1.

We are crazy if we don’t add a legit NFL running back, some sort of TE/H-back who can catch, and another WR to this roster, though.

by rufio on Nov 12, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

and potentially look to acquire a long-term solution at QB

by Roger Dorn on Nov 12, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, there’s that whole thing too.

by rufio on Nov 15, 2009 1:36 AM EST up reply actions  

No doubt, those are definite needs that you mention, but I would consider prioritizing shoring up the right side of the OL. If we draft as high as it looks we might, I could see another situation where we start trading our way down, save some cash and still be able to pick up the RT, for instance, of our choosing.

by Western Reserve on Nov 12, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I am serious when I say that St. Clair hasn’t been too bad since about the first Baltimore game.

I wouldn’t mind getting a few mid-level free agents to compete on the right side of that line.

A second rounder wouldn’t be too much to invest in a RT, but with the way our roster looks right now I seriously think the largest return on our investment would be to avoid using those high picks on a RT. It wouldn’t bother me if we did take one there, though.

by rufio on Nov 15, 2009 1:34 AM EST up reply actions  

In this instance, I think you are wrong Mr. Dorn.
The defense needs to get much classier athletically. I want sportsters at linebacker, not beefcakes. The cornerbacks need to be big enough to help in run support. And the defensive line, needs to find some balance, Shaun Rogers is awesome, but I want three equals wreaking havoc on the d-line.
We don´t need upgrades on offense, we need a fullback and a tailback, big ones with wheels, to generate momentum you can count on. Once we get that working, we´ll bring in our quarterback, and you will see that the receivers are at least decent.

by mooncamping on Nov 13, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Shaun Rogers is awesome, but I want three equals wreaking havoc on the d-line.

I’m not sure two more guys like Rogers exist.

Haynesworth and Ngata?

That would be an awesome DL, but I don’t think it would ever happen.

by rufio on Nov 15, 2009 1:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Graham Harrell and Turk McBride.
I prefer shorter guys, though. They have a lower center of gravity, less body to attack, and produce better leverage working from below.

by mooncamping on Nov 15, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Harrell is a QB and McBride sucks.

Try again GM. Unless you wanted a QB to play DE for us.

by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 15, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok, you got me. Of course I meant Green Bay Packer DT Justin Harrell.

by mooncamping on Nov 16, 2009 8:25 AM EST up reply actions  

The same Justin Harrell that has played in 9 games the past two seasons?

Awesome scouting.

by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2009 2:37 AM EST up reply actions  

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