Scouting from the Couch: College Games to Watch on Saturday
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 13, 2009 2:38 PM EST
116 comments
I love college football. I don't need any excuse to watch the Central Michigan Chippewas vs. the Toledo Rockets on a random weekday night. One fun part of catching college games is projecting the most talented individuals' career path. Are they NFL caliber? Where will the fall in the draft? Do I want them on the Browns?
Now, I have refused to join these conversations on DBN and elsewhere for the first half of the NFL season. Partially, because I wanted to focus on this years' Browns, this years' Buckeyes, etc. Mostly, the 2010 draft was too far away. Too much could happen. The no-doubt #1 pick, a QB, could have a severe shoulder injury. Some big DT could go from a late day one pick to a clear top-3 player based, in part, on one of the most dominating games every by a player at his position. The Browns could win a couple games and change their draft position from top 3 to top 12. There was too much speculation, not enough information, and I just wasn't mentally prepared to discuss the draft.
Well, now the Browns are clearly a bad team. They are 1-7, the bottom of just about every power ranking, and even with a very soft second half schedule, it is impossible to see them winning enough games to fall out of the top 10 in the draft. So, now that it is the second half of a bad Browns season and the stretch run of the NCAA season, draft talk seems inevitable.
So here are a few college games I plan on watching this weekend and the players that I will be keeping an eye on. I look forward to hearing your suggestions on other players or games to keep an eye on:
West Virginia @ Cincinnati Friday, 8 PM, ESPN2: Are the Cincinnati QBs just a product of the system? I'm always skeptical of that criticism, but I've also seen enough of Cincinnati QB Tony Pike to think he has at least a chance at making in the next level. Provided he can stay healthy and add some bulk. Also watch: Cincinnati WR Mardy Gilyard- good routes, but enough speed/size?
Georgia Tech @ Duke, Saturday NOON, ESPN2: I love Georgia Tech this year. I don't know when the last time I saw a dedicated triple option offense run so effectively with such good athletes. Georgia Tech RB Jonathan Dwyer is bigger and stronger than someone like CJ Spiller and still pretty fast. I'm a big fan of multiple talented RBs on a NFL team, and Dwyer with Harrison and Davis seems too awesome to be true. I've seen him anywhere in the top 3 rounds. Also watch: Duke DT Vince Oghobaase, who would be a NT in our scheme, and Georgia Tech S Morgan Burnett and DE Derrick Morgan have been as high as mid first round on some mock draft boards.
Iowa @ Ohio State, Saturday 3:30 PM, ABC: I'll be honest, I'll be watching this game as a crazed fan of Ohio State. But I will try to notice how Ohio State S Kurt Coleman fairs after a couple quiet weeks. He should be there for the Browns in the 2nd or 3rd round if they don't land Berry or Mays in round 1. Also watch Iowa OT Bryan Bulaga as he will be tested by the best defensive line in the country (watch Gibson and Heyword- if they leave OSU early, they'll be taken in the first two rounds) and the Browns could use a young upgrade at the RT position to go with Alex Mack and Joe Thomas.
Alabama @ Miss St., Saturday 7:00 PM, ESPN: The SEC has been tough to figure out. I know the defenses are good, but these offenses look flat out bad this year, and that includes Florida and Bama. If these games were played in the Big Ten it would be considered bad football, but since its in the sunny south, they say it is tough football. That critique aside, this game is filled with defensive NFL draft picks from Alabama. I don't know a lot about them, but they include LB Rolando McClaim, DT Terrence Cody (Shaun Rogers long lost brother?), CB Marquis Johnson, and S Justin Woodall.
Games I'll flip to on Saturday:
Notre Dame @ Pitt (8PM ESPN): Can Jimmy Claussen and his talented WRs look good against a good defense?
Tennessee @ Ole Miss (NOON CBS): Ole Miss DE Greg Hardy is supposed to be a freak and among the best in the country. Tennessee S Eric Berry is a DBN favorite, but I haven't seen him much yet.
Nebraska @ Kansas (3:30 PM, ABC): Suh.
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… Just wait till Tuesday and Thursday. I will reach your new level of awesometude.
Great post man. And I love the fact you popped out a Mac game as a couch potato example.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
MAC football can be fun. I watched that game mostly for Dan LeFevour. He’s like Tebow, but smoother as a passer and more projectable as a pro. Also, I swear he has been at Central Michigan for 8 years. I remember watching him in his first bowl game, and I thought he was a senior.
I think Tebow could be a better pro. I am NOT a Tebow fan, but Tebow has more potential if he is coached well.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 13, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
I just don’t see it. He would have to completely forget how to throw and then relearn the proper motion. The ball doesn’t come off his hand nicely. He also has to learn to play under center and in a more pro-style offense. And he’s too slow to be a realistic NFL wildcat option.
I’m starting to see him higher on draft boards and some NFL people praise his being a “football player”. But if I’m going for an athletic, big Quarterback in the first half of the draft, I’m going with LeFevour, Locker, etc. And if I’m looking to gamble on a QB anywhere on the first round, I’d also take Bradford, McCoy, Mallet, Claussen, Pike, Clark, and Hall before Tebow. That’s just off the top of my head. Now if your talking a 6th round project as maybe a QB, maybe a FB/TE. Sure, he has potential for that slot.
Kosar always looked like a mechanical nightmare but was clearly a winner and a leader- Tebow is certainly a different mold than #19 but gotta love the guy’s spunk (no homo). Pure leader and definitely clutch- something those guys ahead of him on your board haven’t really matched (except for McCoy and Locker).
I’d put Locker #1 though.
Clausen is the best QB if he declares IMO.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 13, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
if the browns draft clausen, i’ll cry. like a lot of people on this board, i do not want to take a qb in the 1st round.
eric berry > clausen.
not to say clausen isn’t good, though.
I will cry too. I want Jimmy on a better team
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 13, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure Clausen will go #1. Locker and Mallet have better tools and for scouts that is all that matters. Jimmy is better, but that doesn’t mean he will go first.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 13, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
I hope not, at least with Tebow he is facing real defenses with the spead option. If you take a QB out of the MAC it think it needs to be a Pro-Style QB.
by OSUMoneyball on Nov 13, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe. Although he hasn’t fared as well against them, LeFevour has played against some big competition.
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 14, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Some of Tebows mechanical problems might be able to fixed. And if he improves his footwork, he might start throwing better.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 13, 2009 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
I believe the relearning how to throw was a strike against Rivers as well. Now admittedly, I haven’t watched very many Chargers games, but it doesn’t appear that his motion has changed all the much since NC State.
Also, the Browns QB who had the most success in the orange and brown uniform (not named Otto Graham) had a very unusual delivery.
by Chief WaDrew on Nov 14, 2009 5:47 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t buy the Kosar or Rivers comparison for Tebow. Those guys have a funky motion and a some sidearm action. Tebow has a giant windup that starts with the ball down at his thigh. Also, it comes off his hand like a wounded duck and he just muscles it to where it needs to be. That isn’t going to work in the NFL.
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 14, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
It is really more the “wounded duck” and the lack of consistent accuracy that worry me more than anything else.
Rivers’ motion looks terrible, and he is still getting it done, but he threw accurately in college, too.
Berry is amazing and is getting professional coaching already from Monte Kiffin. Guy will make a seamless transition into the league. Suh would be a great consolation prize. When March comes around, I have already planned on creatnig a long fanpost in which I beg the Browns to not go with convention by selecting a QB in the 1st just because everyone says they have to. Hopefully something changes between now and then so that I don’t have to do it.
Yes. Berry is my favorite pro prospect. I’m not so sure about Suh, against the 2 best O-Lines he’s seen this year (Oklahoma and Texas Tech) his stats really drop. His game against Va Tech is impressive but I’m not reading too much into Florida Atlantic and Iowa State. Personally I think the second safest pick in the draft is Terrence Cody. So if we don’t get Berry I would like to see a trade down to a later pick and get Cody, and some picks. Which could give us some options with Shaun Rogers. I also like Russell Okung and Taylor Mays.
by OSUMoneyball on Nov 13, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
I watched that Oklahoma-Nebraska game. Suh was in complete control. He dominated the LOS and he also blocked a kick.
I have been in the Eric Berry camp, but I am thinking of switching.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 13, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
If these games were played in the Big Ten it would be considered bad football, but since its in the sunny south, they say it is tough football.
Truth.
Don’t completely agree with that. I love watching Big Ten football, but when I watch an SEC game at the same time, it just seems like the Big Ten game is in slow motion.
by OSUMoneyball on Nov 13, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
1. Berry- Best player
2. Trade Down( the talent here is not at the positions we want or wouldnt fit in our offense)
3. Okung- He would give us a BEAST offensive line.
4. Suh- He is the second best player, but Im just not sure if he can fit into a 3-4 defense
If we traded down, we could get guys like Anthony Davis, Taylor Mays, Jonathan Dwyer, Joe Haden , Bruce Campbell, Dez Bryant, Morgan Burnett, Chad Jones, and Sergio Kindle. I dont think there is much of a dropoff so trading down could be a good idea.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 13, 2009 5:20 PM EST reply actions
Suh is perfect for a 3-4. He is a 300lb monster that moves quickly.
Beast.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 13, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
I have heard that being an end in a 34 woulnd’t utilize his skills best. Check out this guy though
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 13, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on what we ask him to do in a 3-4. I could see him looking very good in an odd front. He is really strong at the POA and uses his hands well, can attract double teams, shed blocks, flow to the ball, and even drop into coverage.
I would love to have this guy.
Yea, the best part is that he won’t have to transition to a 34 ( because he is already playing in a 34) and he is flying under the radar right now and might last until our second 3rd rounder.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 14, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
I am still not sure about fitting Okung at RT. Do you think he can handle the physical DEs/LBs of Baltimore/pitt? He doesn’t seem to fit the kind of big, physical guy Mangini wants. If we go zone-blocking/pass first, I think he’d be great. But would he be worth it? I just feel like you can find that kind of guy deep into the 2nd round to play RT.
No to Mays, yes to Dwyer. I want Jerry Hughes over Kindle.
How bout Bulaga? I know he is playing LT, but he looked pretty damn good against Thad Gibson and Co. Not sure he slips to the second round, but if we either moved down to the mid first or traded back up into the mid first, I’d consider him.
Totally, I think he had a really good game, and I am high on OSU’s front 7. I honestly haven’t watched him closely in any other games, though. He seems physical enough to play RT.
Sam Young out of ND would be another candidate we could look at for later in the draft, maybe our 2nd 2nd rounder or later.
Big Sam will probably go in the 3rd. He has tons of potential but has been poarly coached his first 3 years.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 14, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Bulaga will likely be a top 10 pick because he has been great this year( and last).
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 14, 2009 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
I like Hughes, but he hasn’t played very good competion and Kindle has been great when they put him as a blitzing LB.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 14, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but is Kindle the 255 listed by Kiper, or the 230ish I saw him listed at earlier in the year? And would he last till our 2nd rounder? I’m not sure I see that happening, and nothing I’ve seen says Kindle warrants our likely top-5 pick.
I’ll be watching the mentioned games as well, but if you can there are some players out here on the west coast to watch:
Stanford at USC: Browns will be in the running for RB, so I’ll be watching Toby Gerhart against the pro-style defense of the Trojans. Also look at Taylor Mays, second best Safety in the draft and probably a top 10 pick. So if the Browns get a couple of wins against the Lions, Raiders, and Chiefs, they might be looking at a pick where Mays makes sense.
Utah at TCU: Even on the west coast I don’t get to watch these teams but both schools have produced elite NFL talent; Steve Smith (Carolina) from Utah, and Ladanian Tomlinson TCU. We have a lot of late round picks, so these mid-majors could produce some of our players
Arizona State at Oregon: My current hometown, Arizona State, doesn’t have much, but they do have one player that could be on the Browns’ radar. Chris McGaha is a sure handed wide receiver that isn’t getting much attention, so he could be a target for one of our late round picks. Another player I will be watching is RB LaGarret Blount. Before his infamous punch, he was the 2nd rated RB in the nation. If he shows some maturity I might be willing to accept him as a Brown. Also watch ASU’s freshman QB Brock Osweiler, who is getting his first career start. A 6’8" QB could be the next Big Ben or Joe Flacco, but hopefully the Browns won’t be looking at QB’s when he is eligible.
Yeah, I’m not crazy about drafting RBs in the first round or even second round. I think I’d make an exception for Dwyer though.
I like Gerhart, but I need to watch him more.
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 14, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
You know, Dwyer might slip to the second round. That would be a steal.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 14, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
I would also be fine if we traded down in the first and got him.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 14, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
This is pure speculation, but I was looking at the WalterFootball Mock Drafts, and thought of an interesting scenario. SF has the #11 and #13 picks, and is a QB short of being a great team. What would you think of trading a top 5 pick (possibly #1 overall) and a player like Shaun Rogers or Josh Cribbs for their #11 and #13 picks plus Shaun Hill?
Just to clarify, those are the picks that Walter Football has SF at. I am saying if at the end of the season their positions stay relatively close to that.
by OSUMoneyball on Nov 13, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
Alex Smith hasn’t done that bad for them. If they want a QB, I think they will wait for Sam Bradford. They still have plenty of other needs though.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 13, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
Like O – line. They have one of the worst in the league.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 13, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions
We desperately need a RT.
http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/come_on_cavs.mp3
by johnnyphoenix on Nov 14, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
I more so like the idea of this:
Quinn and Rogers for the #13
or
2011 1st for NE 2 2nd’s (41/42)
Trade those 2 2nd’s to SF for the #13
I do not want to trade back. I want Berry. If not him, I will take a trade down scenario, mid rounds, and draft McClain.
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
I wouldn’t trade Rogers for the #13 pick. It would have to be the #13 and players or picks.
Quinn should get a full year behind center in 2010. Even if Quinn’s not the answer, we have too many needs to take a QB in the draft this year.
by golanbatrac on Nov 14, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
If he isn’t the answer, we can still bring in a stopgap like Clemmons, Pennington, Clemens…
But I will never give up on Brady.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 14, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
I hope you´ll enjoy rooting for another team soon then.
by mooncamping on Nov 14, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
I hope you enjoy life with yellow walls around you.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 14, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
There is a line.
Not only do you cross it. But you keep hopscotching back and forth over it.
by mooncamping on Nov 15, 2009 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Are you aware that you never post anything that makes even remote sense?
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 15, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Keep chasing your tail. Repetition is fun to lesser intellects.
by mooncamping on Nov 15, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Weren’t you a Bronco’s fan at some point in time?
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If we traded our top-5 pick for both of those picks, it would be a good deal for us—a great deal if we were at the 5th pick instead of the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd.
If we traded Cribbs for those picks, it would be a great deal for us.
If we traded Rogers for those picks, it would be an OK deal for us.
If we traded either player AND our pick for those picks and any QB they have on the roster, it would be a bad deal for us.
I’d trade our pick, a 3rd, and Rogers for their two picks, a 6th, and Patrick Willis.
Why do people think that RTs have to be huge but they don’t have to be good in pass protection? They still have to face speed rushers
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 14, 2009 10:47 AM EST reply actions
They do, but they still need to be physical if you want to run the ball. I’d just put the premium on being physical and getting “knockback” for the RT, while I’d put the premium on pass blocking and quickness on the LT.
I think doing that means the RT is a much easier-to-find player than the LT, thus my reluctance to get Okung, especially as high as he will be projected to go.
Here’s a WR to watch, but he is only a Sophomore right now.
AJ Green, WR, Georgia
http://dawgscooper.blogspot.com/
Dawg Scooper: An Unofficial Cleveland Browns Source
AJ Green, Michael Floyd, and Julio Jones are all sophomores but they are all studs
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 14, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Hey Dorn, since you’re a Mizzou fan I thought you’d want to see this article by Joe Poz about Danario Alexander, who’s having a quietly great season for them this year. He’s not projected to go high on any draft boards so I wonder if the Browns could get him late in the draft. What are you thoughts on him?
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 15, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
WOOOOOOOOO!!! Stanford is WHOOPIN’ USC right now!!!!!
I’m sure you guys don’t get Cardinal games in Ohio. But if you haven’t seen him yet, Stanford RB Toby Gerhart is a freaking stud. He’s a god damn work horse! I wouldn’t be upset if the Browns drafted him 3rd or 4th round next year. I honestly think he would be a good asset for us. We could pound it up the middle all day with that kid.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
It was an ass kicking!!!!
Gerhart — 178 yards 3 TDs = STUD!!
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 14, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
Mooncamping will want Suh because he plays Fullback, too
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 14, 2009 5:29 PM EST reply actions
Anyone have links to Gerhart tape?
He definitely has the size you want in a back, but I want to see his explosion, agility, etc. and I don’t get (m)any Stanford games.
Here are some highlights that I found.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 14, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
Ross Homan is having a great game for OSU. He’s got some of the intangibles you want in a LB.
Cam Heyward has already said he won’t come out in the draft this year, but when he does, he’s a great DE candidate in a 3-4.
Brian Bulaga has done pretty well protecting the passer against what I consider to be a very good Ohio State DL.
Cody isn’t Rogers’ long lost brother, he simply is not as quick as Rogers. He is great at what he does: stuffing the run, clogging space, occupying blockers, and getting push at the point of attack. McClain is nasty, and the kind of intelligent player Mangini wants.
Also playing tonight: Jerry Hughes out of TCU. He’d look great as an OLB in the 3-4, IMO.
Justin Boren is pretty solid at OG. I like Jon Asamoah out of Illinios, also at guard.
He is a senior. And he doesnt have the speed to go in the second round.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 14, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Gerhart is eligible for a medical redshirt. He played only part of 1 game (12 carries) before he was injured for the season in 2007.
He is already projecting to the 2nd round. If he doesn’t get that, I would expect him to be back.
Projected to go in the third round, and I can’t see him going back because Harbaugh will be gone (hopefully to ND)
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 15, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Looks like Charlie Weis will be available next year to reunite as offensive coordinator with Brady Quinn.
by Western Reserve on Nov 15, 2009 11:19 AM EST reply actions
He isn’t a good coach, but he still is a good Offensive Coordinator. He is great at developing QBs and NDs offense has put up a ton of points this year.
Cam Cameron sucked as a coach, but he is a good OC; why not give Weis a chance
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 15, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
That isn’t including juniors. Nice try though.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 15, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Are you really saying there is any science to projections. I mean, really, Gerhart is probably a 2nd round to 4th round pick. To try to make a more specific projection or get offended by a specific projection by someone else is a little nuts. Especially in November.
K sorry. I just really get into talking about the draft. I wasn’t mad
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 15, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
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