Week 11 Power Rankings - I'll Give You 32 Guesses...
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 17, 2009 9:24 PM EST
273 comments
...what the Browns' average position is.
Key: Ranked Position - Linked Website
Quote from above website
32 - ESPN.com
It's hard to imagine Eric Mangini ever fixing this mess.
32 - Fanhouse.com
Here's some good news about the Browns: Their defense wasn't half-bad against the Ravens on Monday night. Shaun Rogers looked particularly spry and he's the kind of player that can make offenses miserable. Unfortunately, we've yet to find a defensive player who doesn't make the Browns offense miserable.
32 - FOXsports.com
The offense has scored four touchdowns, all season. Wow. They've been held under 10 points in six of nine games. Double wow. They've also been restricted to under 200 total yards six times.
32 - CBSsports.com
That offense is as bad as I've seen. I mean ever. They can't even attempt passes down the field. What an eyesore.
32 - Yahoo!sports.com
Chance to see just how bad they are against the one-win Lions.
I'll update as the week goes on. Some other football sites haven't posted their Week 11 rankings yet.
*ADDED SITES*
32 - BleacherReport.com
QB Brady Quinn got the start on Monday Night Football against the Ravens and to say he played miserable would be an understatement. Quinn was 13-31 for 99 yards and two interceptions, one which was returned for six and was sacked four times. There are some bad teams in the NFL but it’s a pretty safe bet the Browns are the worst. They have no running game and absolutely no talent or depth at wide receiver. They most likely will have the first pick in next year’s draft.
32 - OBR.com
The quarterback switch came a few weeks too late for this team to have any chance to be competitive. Needs Still to be Filled: WR (depth-speed), LT (depth), RT (depth), ILB (veteran depth), OLB (pass rusher), CB (veteran depth).
32 - SBNation.com
Josh Cribbs's agent was none too pleased with his player being knocked out on a meaningless play with three seconds left in last week's 16-0 beatdown at the hand of the Ravens. To be fair, hasn't every Browns play been pointless this season?
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Just sad how bad the offense is playing ball right now.By far the worst ever in my 30 yrs as a Browns fan.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 17, 2009 9:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I for one do not like this segment. It’s pretty apparent we’re useless at the moment. There is nothing these people say that we don’t already know. There’s already enough negativity around the boards (which isn’t unwarranted).
Pretty good headline tag though. I got it with my 31st guess.
by skipkirk on Nov 17, 2009 10:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well. It’s my job now.
I can’t just not do it because it’s obvious.
Sorry.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 17, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s a good segment, and will be better going forward when the team is not the worst in the league. Might as well get it started now.
I also was wondering if you guys were considering link collections every few days that would point to a bunch of interesting different articles on whatever topics come up concerning the Browns. I think that would be useful. Brad does a nice job with that on FTS if you are interested in contacting him.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 17, 2009 11:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I, honestly, have no more time to do it myself. My opinion story and link searching for this is really all I can handle.
Once again, sorry.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 17, 2009 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dont say you are sorry, you took the time to put this together. It is interesting to know how the Football world thinks of the Browns.
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 18, 2009 8:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t necessarily mean you specifically, I meant the team of DBN minions.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m going to try to do it, but it won’t be regular.
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 18, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, I think there are times when it’s obvious that there are a good amount of links worth reading and at other times there are not.
I would offer to do it, but would only want to sign up if I were devoted to doing a thorough job, which I wouldn’t be able to promise. I understand that is probably the case for you guys as well.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rather than focusing on the ratings (and who could really argue that the Browns aren’t the NFL’s worst team?), I think it would be much more interesting to talk about whether the Browns offense can score any points against Detroit’s terrible defense. I’m not confident that they can. Maybe Cribbs can get a return TD (if he even plays), and maybe they can get a couple of field goals if Detroit screws up (not unlikely) and gives them great field position: say, inside the 30. But in terms of actually sustaining a drive or two: well, I would like to see it, but it’s pretty hard to imagine right now. Anybody think Detroit will blitz on virtually every down? Anybody think this O-line can block if they do? Anybody think Quinn can settle down and play in rhythm, instead of rushing every throw? Anybody think any Browns RB can gain more than 3 yards a carry for an entire game? and so on …..
by drjeo on Nov 18, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually hope that Cribbs is inactive this week. I’d like to see what we can do on offense when we aren’t wasting a dozen throws to a a player who isn’t, and never will be, a wide receiver.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They have no running game and absolutely no talent or depth at wide receiver.
Wrong. We have talent at wide receiver.
by golanbatrac on Nov 17, 2009 10:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
There is HUGE talent. So far, there’s just no potential to USE that talent.
And I thought we had decent depth.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 17, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Massaquoi, Robiskie, Furrey, Stuckey and Ventrone. That’s depth, but not of the decent kind.
by skipkirk on Nov 17, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ventrone is a DB isn’t he?
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 17, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m going off the player list on the left of DBN’s mainpage. We haven’t seen him in either position so who knows.
by skipkirk on Nov 17, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Potential isn’t the same thing as talent. I think we have guys with the potential to be talented wide receivers in the future, but not in this offense. As it stands right now, I do think we lack talent at WR.
by Simmsinns on Nov 18, 2009 3:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
From Merriam Webster:
talent — the natural endowments of a person.
Talent is natural. Competence is developed over time. We have talented wide receivers. What we do not have is competent #1 and #2 receivers.
We’ll be fine at the position in a couple of years.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 9:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
By that definition, I totally agree.
by Simmsinns on Nov 18, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HUGE talent? Really? I can’t imagine any of these guys as a #1 receiver. Sure they can develop, but they’ve done absolutely nothing to demonstrate that they have the physical gifts and/or football smarts to rise to that level. Effort is well and good (and I’m a big fan of it), but you’ve either got that combination of speed, reflexes, and almost inhuman coordination, or you don’t. Some things can’t be learned. I could see MoMass being a good #2 at some time, and Robiskie might develop into a Joe J.-type #3. I think that both of those scenarios would require a genuine #1 receiver playing opposite them to draw the most serious coverage. Hard to see much more. As for the rest of the guys the Browns have pretending to be receivers: they’re really not much more than cannon fodder.
by drjeo on Nov 18, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Furrey’s better than cannon fodder. When last he played with a decent QB he had 98 receptions and 1000+ yards and 61 receptions the following year. That’s waaay above average for a #3 receiver.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He also played in the Mike Martz system that season.
Other than that he is averaging 238 yards a season.
Furrey is nothing special.
MoMass may end up being a good WR. Robo has been invisible. Give them time, but I think they are both Quincy Morgan type guys. WR is still a need. A lower need, but we could still add a new one.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was a rookie wide receiver / special-teamer buried on the rams depth chart in ’03. Then he transitioned to Safety in ’04, and played safety again in ’05. He transitioned back to WR in ’06 and caught 98 balls for 1000+ yards as the Lions #2 receiver. In ’07, he was demoted to #3 on the WR depth chart with the drafting of Megatron, and still caught 61 for 664. 2008 was his only down year as a receiver as he was injured half the year, and played on the worst team in NFL history.
If you set aside his best year in Detroit, that leaves a quality year as a #3 reciever, his rookie year (when he wasn’t even a starter), last year (when he was injured and playing on an 0-16 team), and two years as a Safety to come up with that 238 yard/year average.
Furrey is clearly not ‘cannon fodder’. In three years as a starting WR he already has two seasons better than any Brian Brennan (our last quality #3) ever had.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Love the Brennan ref. I love Browns history.
by holmes213 on Nov 18, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Furrey was a starter in Detroit. Just like Breaston is a starter in Arizona. Mike Martz used 3 WR’s almost at all times. Brennan was not.
So to compare him to a #3 WR on a team that was a run first, is out of whack. The NFL has changed so much in 20 years, it would hard to ever compare their numbers.
Furrey had one good season playing for a pass happy coach. Not saying that he is totally worthless, but I don’t think he should be getting any time right now.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He had one great season and one good season and two bad seasons as a WR (his rookie season and last year).
So who should get time? MoMass, Robiskie and who?
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Our first three WR’s should be Stuckey, Robo, and MoMass in any order. After that should be Cribbs. Hell bring James Robinson off the practice squad.
This team should be all for 2010. Furrey shouldn’t enter those plans.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stucki’s been injured. He’s a limited participant in practice this week.
A practice squad player? Seriously?
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Now if you was talking about RoyalI would agree anyone is better then that bum right now.But got to agree with golan Furrey is a solid #3
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 18, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol where? he stated talent, not hope and prayers that someday someone will turn out to be decent out of the blue
by Rocland on Nov 18, 2009 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, talent. We have talent at wide receiver.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 12:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That´s an outright lie. Mike Furrey is an absolute cat! We must retain him.
by mooncamping on Nov 18, 2009 8:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Furrey is an absolute dead cat!
Fixed.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 18, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think that Furrey should be active on gameday. We should be giving those reps to young players.
Plus, Furrey sucks as a WR. I would rather have him at Safety.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love how one pass goes off of Furrey’s hands and all of a sudden he’s horrible and should be inactive.
Where’s the hate for Brandon McDonald. I’m running out of fingers to count the number of games he’s cost us.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t worry, there’s plenty of loathing to go around.
Seriously, I don’t hate Furrey . It has been more than one drop though, unfortunately. I just haven’t been impressed with him at WR at all since he arrived. He doesn’t have the rookie excuses of MoMass and Robo either.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 18, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to say that McDonald has cost us games, but that implies that our offense was a threat to score enough to win any of those games.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cost us the chance to win games, then.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
First of all I was never a fan of Furrey. I think that MoMass and Robo should be getting those reps. Furrey is not going to be a part of this teams future, so why waste reps on him?
Second of all, I have been a huge critic of McDonald.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s plenty of reps to go ‘round if we don’t waste them on Cribbs. Furrey is not the problem.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
regardless, they are all players on the team and they need practice because they may find themselves open on any play. They might not get anything designed for them specifically, but they need the reps.
As a matter of fact, the whole offense needs more reps. Daboll needs reps.
by holmes213 on Nov 18, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is a greater payoff giving Cribbs the reps. Mike Furrey is nothing special. Cribbs still may be.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cribbs is not a wide receiver. Cribbs will never be a wide receiver.
Love the guy as a special teamer, but he’s never going to develop as a threat at wide receiver.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How can you be so sure?
With this playcalling everyone looks like they don’t belong on a NFL offense.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For the same reason I’m sure Jerome Harrison will never develop into threat at wide receiver…he’s not built like a wide receiver. I’ll gladly eat my words when Cribbs runs downfield, turns his body at full speed and goes up for a ball. I don’t see that ever happening. And until it does, defenses will continue to play up and we’ll continue to dink and dunk for negative yardage.
He’s an uber skilled player for sure, but his particular skill set is more suited to halfback than wideout.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cribbs is a HB.Should use him like we used Metcalf back in the 90’s.Swing pass and toss runs would work more for him then trying to be a WR
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 18, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I can call the plays from Japan?
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 19, 2009 2:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I saw 2 passes go off his hands Monday.
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 19, 2009 7:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You are absolutely wrong. Mike Furrey does not suck in the least bit as a wide receiver. He is our number one situational receiver going forward.
Safety was not in the cards, when we signed him, get off of it.
by mooncamping on Nov 20, 2009 7:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't agree
Massquoi’s shown NFL level talent, who else has?
"There's nothing that cleanses the soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." Woody Hayes.
by rose_11 on Nov 18, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love this section...
..sorry couldn’t help it.
It’s the “car-wreck” (you don’t want to but you have to look) quality of seeing a proud fanbase struggling to make sense of team temporarily ruined by a incompetent front office.
Years ago, growing up in Louisiana some of my best friends were children of parents from Ohio…the parents made sure the kids were Browns fans. This gave me an early sense as to how devoted folks were to this team.
Today, as a Saints fan, I can tell you a QB means everything. Before Brees we were a middling offense, since he arrived we’ve been Top 5 for the last four years. Drafting another kid and throwing him into this fire appears to be your only choice though. Here’s a good link to see what will be available next year:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html
Might as well focus on the future if the present sucks, no?
by TigerPaw on Nov 17, 2009 11:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You guys killed Manning. Straight up.
After killing his possible great career, the Saints should have been disbanded.
The ’Aint’s are very inconsistent.
At least we’re consistently bad.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 17, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, very consistently...now stop being such a douche
by TigerPaw on Nov 18, 2009 12:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Intelligent discourse there, friend. Why don’t you take it elsewhere?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 18, 2009 12:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How am I being the douche? You’ve been trolling since our loss last night.
You didn’t have to comment on my post at all. I’m allowed to reply critically.
Free speech my man.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 12:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My only question to this post is why Dabol still has a job/
by Grockcubs on Nov 17, 2009 11:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I do not have 32 guesses to that.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 17, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously. This has to fall on Daboll’s head. There is no way that the offense should be THIS terrible unless the scheme sucks.
by danvail on Nov 18, 2009 8:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Because Rob Ryan still has his. And Rob Ryan is the worstiest on this team.
Forcing more and more 4-3 personnel on us. There are no, and I mean zero, linebackers on some plays. I couldn´t believe it when he lined up like 9 guys on the line of scrimmage, and the Ravens runningback couldn´t break through.
This guy plays rock, scissors, paper, on every play. How about making sure there even is a defender where the play could go?
by mooncamping on Nov 18, 2009 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rob Ryan doesn’t have much say in the personnel, he coaches the schemes and the players given to him.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rob Ryan has done some nice things this season.
Rob Ryan is so far down the list of crap that needs fixed.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have ascertained that the defense sucks, and it´s Rob Ryan´s fault. I want him gone.
His approach to add more and more 4-3 players, is not gentle persuasion. These are all instant predicaments, that we have to find homes for. He is not cooperative.
by mooncamping on Nov 19, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OK Moon, this time you’ve gone too far. Let’s step outside and continue this conversation. I’ll call Rob to join us.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 19, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ummm Ryan doesnt “add more” players, he takes what is given him and as soon as he is done at the buffet line plans a defense that really has done remarkably well, remember our first year back and the D with Jamir Miller? It seems similar….
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 19, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rob Ryan is conflicted by the legacy of his Dad´s inventiveness in defensive schematics. Consequently we have 4-3, 46, cover-slot-switcharound-do what my doodle says personnel. And we´re expected not to realize, there are almost no players suited to a 3-4 left on the roster.
Eric Mangini, who has a mind of his own, was sent Rob Ryan by the Patriots NFL goon squad to be a stooge.
Lets let him go, and be gracious by letting him take his players with him.
by mooncamping on Nov 20, 2009 7:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Laughed at the
“we have 4-3, 46, cover-slot-switcharound-do what my doodle says personnel. "
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 20, 2009 8:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice segment. It is funny to see each site try to one-up the competition and find some amazingly awful stat to show just how monumentally horrible the Browns have become. Keep them coming. He who laughs last, last best.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Nov 18, 2009 12:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If nothing else, it’s good to see some kind of consistency from this team.
by Chief WaDrew on Nov 18, 2009 1:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
guys, it just sucks to be here…
http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/come_on_cavs.mp3
by johnnyphoenix on Nov 18, 2009 4:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
How did we ever end up at the bottom of the barrel?\
http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/come_on_cavs.mp3
by johnnyphoenix on Nov 18, 2009 4:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I never I am sure the majority of us never thought this is what the season was going to turn out to become. How in the world is this team the underdog to Detriot?
I don’t see how Mangini survives this. In 9 weeks, water bottle fines with an investigation of the NFLPA, practice complaints with NFLPA investigation, the GM he hires is fired, who never did a damn thing, and the latest screw up of Cribbs getting layed out for not reason. Nice knowing you Eric.
by Grockcubs on Nov 18, 2009 6:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In 9 weeks, water bottle fines with an investigation of the NFLPA, practice complaints with NFLPA investigation, the GM he hires is fired, who never did a damn thing, and the latest screw up of Cribbs getting layed out for not reason.
He’s being investigated by the worst union in all of professional sports?!? On the eve of a potential lockout?!? Goodness gracious sakes alive!
Whatever happened with the last investigation into Mangini’s ‘opportunity sessions’? Oh wait, that’s right, the league found in Mangini’s favor… Whatever happened with the water bottle investigation? Nothing? How can that be?
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and kudos for the original term: “opportunity session”!
by mooncamping on Nov 18, 2009 8:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
Unless you think the media is still making it all up.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve seen proof of nothing. The only thing we know for sure is that that the league found no evidence of wrong doing in the James Davis injury case. If you want to lynch Mangini based on wholly unsubstantiated rumors (many of which have been countered by players), then go right on ahead.
“Where there’s smoke, there’s fire”? Pbthhh…
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Name me one other team that has had as many off the field issues with its head coach as this years Cleveland Browns. I for the life of me cannot think of another.
If you want to continue to believe that the media (CNNSi, ESPN, Cleveland rags, etc.) is all out to get Mangini fired, then so be it. But the NFLPA is interested enough in the going ons in Cleveland, that they are investigating the Browns. That isn’t a “rumor”, that is fact.
I get that you don’t trust the media, but this is taking it to foolish lengths.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Name me one other team that has had as many off the field issues with its head coach as this years Cleveland Browns. I for the life of me cannot think of another.
Name me one other coach who has been under this much scrutiny this early in his tenure. They were calling for his head in February.
If you want to continue to believe that the media (CNNSi, ESPN, Cleveland rags, etc.) is all out to get Mangini fired, then so be it.
I call them as I see them. All of these oh so horrible things have thus far added up to nothing.
But the NFLPA is interested enough in the going ons in Cleveland, that they are investigating the Browns. That isn’t a "rumor", that is fact.
Of course the NFLPA is investigating. They’re trying to close ranks as the run headlong toward the end of the current labor agreement with a brand spankin’ new executive Director.
Also, this is the first time in how many years that the NFLPA has been led by someone other than Gene Upshaw. Upshaw was never a union guy — he worked for the owners. What’s happened in the past has little bearing on the current state of the NFLPA.
I get that you don’t trust the media, but this is taking it to foolish lengths.
Expecting proof is taking my ‘distrust’ of the media to foolish lengths?
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Name me one other coach who has been under this much scrutiny this early in his tenure. They were calling for his head in February.
Every coach in the NFL is under scrutiny. Look at Bilichick this past week. Hell, Norv Turner is supposed to be fired every November. That is the life of a NFL coach now a days. Mangini is getting extra crap because he is at the controls of, as of now, one of the worst NFL teams in history. He named the GM he couldn’t work with. This is his mess, why can’t he take sh*t for it?
Of course the NFLPA is investigating.
Correct. For many, many reasons.
Expecting proof is taking my ‘distrust’ of the media to foolish lengths?
There has been many stories that have facts, yet you continue to believe that the media is out to make the Browns look bad/get Eric Mangini fired. That is what I am calling foolish.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Every coach in the NFL is under scrutiny. Look at Bilichick this past week. Hell, Norv Turner is supposed to be fired every November. That is the life of a NFL coach now a days. Mangini is getting extra crap because he is at the controls of, as of now, one of the worst NFL teams in history. He named the GM he couldn’t work with. This is his mess, why can’t he take sh*t for it?
That’s fine, unless, of course, they started flinging shit the moment he was hired, as happened.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you on this. Look at Steve Spagnuolo. Where is the outrage over the Rams? I know Cleveland is far more passionate about football than St. Louis, but the only thing I have heard about Spags is great stuff.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What is there to be outraged about with the Rams? I know they’re bad, but there are always bad teams in the NFL. Mangini has done plenty of things for people to criticize that aren’t related to wins and losses. I can’t believe people are making Mangini out to be some poor soul who’s getting picked on by the media; he’s brought most of it on himself.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 18, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Think what is being said was as soon as the Browns said Mangini was the man people have called for his head before the ink on the contract dried.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 19, 2009 2:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mangini was isloating players since his first day. He wasn’t the coach for a week before he pissed Rogers off. Its one thing to lead a sucky team, but its totally different when you lead a sucky team with a pompous, aloof and isolating attitude.
by Rocland on Nov 19, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t really want to continue with this debate because it is fruitless, but my point is that Mangini does deserve some of the criticism he is getting, I agree with that. At the same time, every little minor problem with the team gets blown up and blamed on him. Take the last play of the game which Mangini said was a call by Quinn in the huddle and not by the coaching staff. People are using stuff like this to pile on more than he deserves.
I agree there are some legitimate criticisms of Mangini, but the same is true of the Rams which is why I made the example. That team is in a similar state as the Browns, but Spagnuolo is going to be given a fair chance to do it his way.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 19, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Name me one other team that has had as many off the field issues with its head coach as this years Cleveland Browns. I for the life of me cannot think of another.
not saying i disagree with your main point, but i’d say tom cable is worse.
by emily522 on Nov 18, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point. Tom Cable seems like a good guy.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of whom, I just read that he is going to start Gradkowski.
by JustBob on Nov 18, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lions/Browns
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Raiders
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nautre. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 18, 2009 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fortunately, we will be able to find out in the next few weeks.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or tomorrow…
I love to foreshadow.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, nice SpecialB.
I did mean just in terms of off the field stuff/turmoil. Not necessarily this year’s team quality.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nautre. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 18, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep would rather have Mangini than Cable’s fiasco
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 19, 2009 7:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Raiders has had alot more issues with there Head guy then us IMO.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 18, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Screw the media. That is all.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 18, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s fine, but they’re not always wrong. Do we really have any reason to trust Mangini?
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 18, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No. And I don’t see why a team would employ a coach that is obviously not liked by a lot of fans (and even if it is undeserved, it is still true), doesn’t seem to be trusted or liked by his players who don’t even seem that well coached, and is not trusted or well liked among the media.
Why would the Browns keep a guy like that around? If he was some super awesome coach, like Mike Tomlin, I could see keeping Mangini around even with all of the problems. It just doesn’t seem worth it to me. Get rid him. Lerner can afford the salary hit.
by Cols714 on Nov 18, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t assume Mangini is trustworthy. OTOH, it seems fairly clear to me that a lot of media outlets are pursuing a “Browns most dysfunctional team this year!” narrative. They have a clear motive to amplify the drama, so I certainly don’t trust them either.
I’m just willing to consider Mangini as innocent until proven guilty . Most of the charges against him have ended up being unclear cases at the very best.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 18, 2009 8:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They’re reporting that because it appears to be true. I don’t know how you can argue otherwise.
It always bothers me when fans start complaining that the media is picking on their favorite team. People in the media aren’t out to get the Browns; they’re just embarassing to watch. Other teams are losing games but at least they look like they know what they’re doing sometimes. The Browns can’t do anything offensively. It’s embarassing, and I don’t know how anyone could think otherwise. Not to mention all the other off-the-field stuff going on with the Browns which makes them look worse. Mangini had a bad reputation coming here already from the Jets, and he hasn’t done anything in Cleveland to change that reputation.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 18, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To be clear, the Browns offense, and often the team in general, has been an abomination this year. On that I think we agree BB, and Mangini certainly deserves a lot of blame for that. (Although not all of it, and I think he inherited a real lemon of a team.) I’m certainly not arguing that the Browns today are good, or even mediocre. The product on the field has been mostly awful, defense aside.
It’s all this “off-the-field stuff” that’s at issue here for me. Most of that has been more rumor and innuendo than anything proven. I don’t want to rehash all the back and forth we’ve already had here over this stuff, but we’ve got at least two sides to this water bottle BS, an investigation of the Davis injury that cleared the team, and now an NFLPA investigation whose very existence as an investigation is being used to ‘prove’ that Mangini is the Great Satan.
Losing environments produce bad attitudes and complaints. Disciplinarians in losing environments will get crucified and considered blowhard a**h**es.The self-perpetuating media echo chamber that loves bad and salacious news about bad teams will amplify all of that. Taking these facts into account, I consider the results much ado about very little that’s based in reality until someone shows me some concrete evidence otherwise. That’s all, and that’s how I can argue otherwise.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 19, 2009 12:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You´re picking on the wrong guy, I assure you.
I´ve told you before. It´s Randy Lerner and Eric Mangini at the helm, until further notice.
The NFLPA, headed by a trial lawyer, better back off. That´s not what we appreciate in the NFL. You come into a team´s area, you´re a guest, even if you´re from the NFL. If you want to investigate, call the cops.
by mooncamping on Nov 19, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Go ahead and defend Mangini. We can argue about the union for the players, and yes I agree they are worthless. However, Mangini for some reason, and I believe it is self afflicted, always is surrounded be some sort of headache. Not only is the football awful his management skills are lacking.
by Grockcubs on Nov 18, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The NFLPA is not welcome on our compound. We´re a professional franchise, paying top bucks to a losing team. Extra training may be exactly what´s warranted.
Stop being sissy pushers.
by mooncamping on Nov 18, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We can disagree, but name calling I won’t get stoop to that level. So have at Golanbatrac if it makes you feel good.
by Grockcubs on Nov 18, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Grockcubs= sissy pusher
thats funny, I don’t know what that would be.
by Grockcubs on Nov 19, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was stating what Mooncamping said.
And who doesn’t say heh to that?
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 19, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Long practices are against the CBA.
Being “tough” has nothing to do with it.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Extending for a considerable distance.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Two hours? Three hours? Those are the only two figures we’ve heard.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right Mangini said two hours, Lewis said three.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
Let’s all laugh at Jamaal because he’s old and through.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How about because he’s a whiny bastard?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 18, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The way he runs think he has been tired from about middle of last year.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 19, 2009 2:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
3 hours is worth complaining about? I know 6th graders that practice that long.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
3 to 7 for my HSF team. And then film after.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And where’s my union?
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you get paid a couple million/year?
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I got paid with tons of brusies from teammate DEs.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It has nothing to do with how much they get paid; it’s about keeping the player fresh for games. Playing football is tough enough physically as it is, they don’t need to get beat up during the week. Money doesn’t do anything to help you body heal for Sundays.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 18, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well I see no issue with 2 hr practices.
They do that what 2 maybe 3 days a week?
To me this team is soft and seems to bitch about everything that is done to them.
Maybe just maybe if they showed some life or even the ablity to play the game half way good I could see that they might be beat up.But this team has played this bad from the get go.
While we are at it Lewis the man that bitched about 3 hrs has looked tired from the middle of last year so don’t think practice is why this team plays bad.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 19, 2009 2:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2-3 hours during the season though. Right? The marathon practices were before the school year started.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really. No.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How in hell did you get in 7 hour practices during the school year? That’d be 10 PM and then film?
Our practices usually ended somewhere between 5 and 7 PM on weekdays.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No No No.
We went 3:00 to 7:00
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you meant seven hours during the season. That’d be a bit much.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When I was in HS flim was on sat morning sunday off and practice Mon-Thurs 4 pm – 8 pm
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 19, 2009 2:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mangini has said 2 hours. Nothing more. Why would you believe the media more over the HC.
by skipkirk on Nov 18, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It actually wasn’t the media. It was Lewis that said that practices lasted three hours. Mangini countered with two.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2 or 3 hours, 2 or 3 times a week? That is what is keeping Lewis from hitting the hole faster? ahhhhhhhhhh
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 19, 2009 7:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless, I think the question is, Is Mangini losing faith with his players?
by Western Reserve on Nov 19, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a fact that player get worn down during the season. Former players talk about that all the time, and about the need to save their body for the games on Sundays. Wearing players down during the week doesn’t help them play better during the game. Of course it’s important to practice, but there are ways to do that without wearing out the team.
Nobody is saying that easing up on practice is going to make Lewis run faster or be a great running back again, but that doesn’t mean he’s not right. I don’t know if he is, but I’m not going to automatically assume that he isn’t just because he’s not a great runner any more.
And please don’t compare high school football to the NFL. The level of hitting and the physical beating that these players take isn’t anything like high school football, so I don’t want to hear all these people bragging about how long they practiced in high school. Sure, NFL players make a lot of money, but that doesn’t mean they don’t feel any pain or get worn down.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 19, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The level of hitting and the physical beating that these players take isn’t anything like high school football, so I don’t want to hear all these people bragging about how long they practiced in high school.
I have two bad knees and and a broken back that says otherwise.
No one is bragging. Just stating the facts.
by golanbatrac on Nov 19, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really? You’re really going to say that the physicality of high school football is the same as the NFL?
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 19, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s little difference between a high school kid hitting another high school kid and a pro hitting another pro.
by golanbatrac on Nov 19, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t believe that. Pro players are hit by much bigger guys at faster speed. Obviously they are bigger themselves, but that doesn’t mean the impact of the hit they receive is reduced.
To put it another way, you don’t see former high school football players walking around with the amount of permanent physical damage that many former NFL players have.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 19, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t Golan just state his problems from HSF that disporves your second paragraph?
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 19, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No. One example doesn’t disprove anything. I didn’t say that high school football players never sustain lifelong injuries, only that it’s much more rare than in the NFL.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 19, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, disprove is a poor choice of words. It’s a counter example. Nothing more.
by golanbatrac on Nov 19, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
at faster speed
This is actually the most important point. Apply the famous equation: e=mc2 (the “2” is “squared”, but I don’t know how to produce superscript in this format). That tells us that the energy in the collision is a product of the mass times the square of the velocity. In other words, energy increases exponentially as speed increases; thus speed has a far greater effect than mass on the energy of the collisions. Actually, I’m sure Brad could explain this better than I can. So, that would support Brad’s argument.
However, I wonder to what extent that is at least partially offset by the immense disparity in size between players found in high school football, where you routinely have 280 pounders playing against guys who weigh barely half that. I’ve seen lots of 160 pound high school running backs and receivers. This is comparable to a Smartfor2 car being hit by a full-size Hummer: it’s going to be bad for the Smartcar, regardless of the speed of the collision. Or, as Sancho Panza said “Whether the stone hits the pitcher, or the pitcher hits the stone, it’s going to be bad for the pitcher.”
by drjeo on Nov 19, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting post drjeo.
To extend your car metaphor:
If two Hummers hit head on at 65 mph, would you expect the drivers to be in better shape than the drivers of two Cobalts who hit head on at, say, 45 mph?
I don’ t know. Maybe.
by golanbatrac on Nov 19, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d say the likelihood of injury is higher but not necessarily the severity of injury.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 19, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right idea but wrong equation. In the equation E=mc^2 (to use calculator notation) the c stands for the speed of light, which is a constant and not a variable. So for that equation the energy varies directly with the mass.
What you’re thinking of is the equation for Kinetic Energy (the energy of motion) KE=1/2mv^2, where m and v can both vary. Kinetic energy is thus proportional to the square of the velocity, so a hit by a person running at twice the speed will result in four times the energy.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 19, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When using exponents, a ^ in front of the number indicates an exponent.
Fun fact of the day.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 19, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They pro who is getting hit isn’t just bigger, he is also stronger, has had years of professional training, and has much, much, much better equipment (not to mention a team of top-notch trainers, doctors and diagnosticians on hand who have access to all of the best equipment).
Regarding your second paragraph: Much of the permanent physical damage former NFL players have is the cumulative result of repeated injuries. The longer you play, the better chance you have to have those injuries add up to something permanent and debilatating.
by golanbatrac on Nov 19, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.setma.com/Article.cfm?ID=451
Head Injures in High School Football Players
“Among the 1.2 million teens who play high school football, the group that accounts for most sports-related concussions, between 4 and 6 percent sustain concussions, or about 43,200 to 67,200 injuries a year. However, the real incidence is probably higher, as more than half of high school athletes who suffer concussions are suspected of failing to report the injury, researchers say.” (July 2009, The Journal of Athletic Training). The total incidence of injury is 15% for high school football players annually but is much higher in linemen, who suffer the most serious injuries every year.
A study reported in 2007 by the Neuroscience News Letter stated that an “‘unacceptably high percentage’ of high schoolers who sustain catastrophic head injury play with residual effects of prior head injury.” Furthermore, the study stated, “The incidence of catastrophic head injuries in football is dramatically higher at the high school level than at the college level, according to a study published in the July, 2007 issue of The American Journal of Sports Medicine.”
The report added that “High school football players have more than three times the risk of a catastrophic head injury than their college peers… The authors also found a high percentage of high school athletes playing with neurologic symptoms from a previous head injury at the time they sustained a catastrophic injury. Football has more direct catastrophic injuries than any other sport tracked by the National Center for Catastrophic Sports Injury Research (NCCSIR).”
“The single most important piece of advice that I can give is to never let an athlete play football if he has any neurological symptoms whatsoever,” says Dr. Boden. “Those symptoms may include amnesia, dizziness, headache, irritability, and personality change.”
by golanbatrac on Nov 19, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We have a defensive coordinator with an attitude, that has acquired one 4-3 player after another. Yet, he is forcing them into a 3-4 schematic, because that is what we will play in Cleveland eternally. Square pegs in round holes is kind of difficult. We have 4-3 players failing at playing a 3-4. Consequently they suck. And people who suck look for reasons why they suck. So being overtaxed in training is a welcome complaint possibility. Especially when it is so easy to coerce NFL officials into questioning your coach. This is mutiny, and the cheap kind, on the largest level.
It´s not our fault these players didn´t have enough ability to judge how well or how badly they would fit into a 3-4, before they signed.
But I really don´t care, the square pegs can keep bouncing off of the round holes for as long as they want to. Help is on the way.
by mooncamping on Nov 19, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We have a defensive coordinator with an attitude, that has acquired one 4-3 player after another.
Rex Ryan doesn’t have control over who the Browns acquire. You are wrong.
Yet, he is forcing them into a 3-4 schematic, because that is what we will play in Cleveland eternally.
The Browns have played the 4-3 as recently as the Butch Davis era. You are wrong.
We have 4-3 players failing at playing a 3-4.
You have suggested this several times and have been shown how wrong you are each time. Please get over it. You are wrong.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nautre. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 19, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am not wrong. You are wrong, and worse than that, you think it´s clever not to realize it.
by mooncamping on Nov 20, 2009 7:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, this needs to stop. Nobody thinks it’s funny any more. Just because you say something is true doesn’t make it true.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 20, 2009 8:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Buckeye Brad, your lacking impartiality as a moderator is what needs to stop. This site may be free to participants, but they do rely on hits and readers for their payday. You are counterproductive.
by mooncamping on Nov 21, 2009 7:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really? A tailking dog from the Disney movie UP is your avatar?
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 21, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Speak for yourself. And the answer is, by being there from the beginning.
by mooncamping on Nov 18, 2009 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How is this a shock, they are bad, they’ve been bad for years. There was no easy quick way to change the culture of mediocraty. The core of the team last year was never be better than a 500 team even with Tony Grossi’s picks.
This is a weekly evalutation of the league so far. The Browns have not been #32 all season, they win a couple they are #28, are they any better or worse……no. Stick to the plan, sometimes you have to go backwards to get better.
by overthere on Nov 18, 2009 7:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hey overthere.
Stay overthere and take your obvious, redundant comments with you.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 8:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree. Blowing shit up again solves nothing.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 8:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Miami fired Cam Cameron after his one 1-15 season.
The following season, they made the playoffs.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And this year they blow again. Is that what we’re after? A single playoff year? A repeat of the Phil Savage plan?
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually don’t think Miami is as bad as their record indicates.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, they are 4-5 in a very average division- they have a chance. Plus, they’ve lost their starting QB to injury.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nautre. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 18, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How much of that team did Cameron put in place?
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 19, 2009 7:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think much.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nautre. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 19, 2009 9:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think much.
Well, that’s OK, I guess, but most people are reluctant to admit it.
by drjeo on Nov 19, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Woah, slamming the new minion! That’s bold.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 19, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nautre. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 19, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So? Every team with a losing record is terrible?
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 18, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Terrible? No.
The fins are not very good. They’ve won three more games than the Browns.
They nearly lost to Tampa Bay and would have lost to the Jets had Ginn not gone apeshit in that game. They could easily be 2-7 right now. With Carolina, New England, Pittsburgh and Tennessee left on their schedule, I think they finish with a losing record.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And they could have beaten the Colts and Saints.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 19, 2009 2:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, they’ve been competitive in every game nearly beating 2 of the best in the league.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 19, 2009 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right. If we’re going to play “could have” then you have to do it both ways. Miami isn’t a great team but they maximize the talent that they have and are comptetitve in every game. They almost beat the two undefeated teams left and that’s a heck of a lot better than the Browns are right now.
By the way (to golanbatrac), three games is a lot when you’re talking half of a season.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 19, 2009 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They’ve done a good job getting the most out of two great running backs. Otherwise, they have one of the worst defenses in the league, and one of the worst passing attacks in the league.
The Browns are literally two great running backs away from being the Dolphins.
by golanbatrac on Nov 19, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They’re also on their backup QB.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 19, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, their QB situation isn’t much better than ours.
by golanbatrac on Nov 19, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My point was that if they still had their starting QB healthy then their passing game would be much better.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 19, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not much better. They were 21st in the league last year with Pennington.
Ginn has yet to develop, Hartline is a rookie, and Boss and Camarillo are average.
They’re in the same boat as the Browns at WR.
by golanbatrac on Nov 19, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Dolphins are 7th in the NFL against the run.
Not just the two RB’s…
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 19, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Dolphins D is good and getting better. Vontae Davis was a really nice pick.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 19, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why run against a defense that’s dead last in yards allowed per completion and has given up more points than every team in the league other than the Lions, Bucs, Titans and Rams?
They are seventh in yards allowed, but that’s as much a function of their running game (fourth in the league in TOP/game and 5th in total plays from scrimmage) than solid defensive play. And when teams do run against them, they tend to have success (tied with Tampa for 8th worst in the league at allowing rushing TD’s — on 74 fewer attempts than Tampa).
by golanbatrac on Nov 19, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well you´re right. There are people on this site that gleefully deliver in helping establish such an adverse prediction as if it were direction. Rather than realizing that such a prediction could represent a challenge.
by mooncamping on Nov 18, 2009 8:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of the sources named, cbs had the worst and most untruthful statement.
Lets boycott them.
by mooncamping on Nov 18, 2009 8:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I am down with a CBS boycott, but might need the network itself to watch the Browns play.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m in. (In so far as it doesn’t interfere with watching the Browns play or watching the remainder of this season of Survivor.)
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 9:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait…what channel is NCIS on? :P
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 18, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What was wrong with what CBS said?
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, we all know we are bad. The rest of the world doesn’t need to tell us that. This sunday is our Sleeper Bowl. Who will win the coveted 1st round draft pick trophy. Gentleman, lets “suck” it up and get out there and win one for the “Gripers.”
To be honest I don’t want the #1 pick. It just proves we are the worst team.
by holmes213 on Nov 18, 2009 10:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
hypothetical situation...
Eric Mangini is still here next season. Considering that we already have 11 picks in the draft I believe, would it be reasonable to predict the he would actually use the first pick in the draft rather than trading down for more picks??
Hey... Cleveland happens.
by zdub1983 on Nov 18, 2009 10:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
and where is our biggest hole? what position do you take with your top 5 pick? I’m thinking RB…
Hey... Cleveland happens.
by zdub1983 on Nov 18, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m thinking this too. We’ve got a lot of holes to fill….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 18, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But might it not be better to trade down say 5 spots and get a xtra 2nd and 3rd to try and fill more of the holes we do have?
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 18, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you can find a taker for that deal. It’s all situational and depends on finding someone who wants to move up just a few picks badly enough that they’d give up a 2nd and 3rd. It could happen, but best not to hold your breath.
by JustBob on Nov 18, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would not hold my breath but it would be a best for us if we could pull that off.Just not sure there is any teams out there that would want to do that they would really have to think they are 1 playmaker away from being good.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 18, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It is almost impossible to trade down from the number 1 overall pick.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
still hope with a few bad teams to come. I don’t want the 1st pick. I don’t want to be that bad.
by holmes213 on Nov 18, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You guys say Ray is a dirty player
Thank you Brady Quinn for putting Suggs out for 2-3 weeks when we play the Colts and Steelers in our next two games. Hope he never completes another NFL pass.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
by Mr MaLoR on Nov 18, 2009 10:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Like the Ravens had any chance of beating the Colts or Steelers…
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t believe one play by Quinn nullifies a career of dirty play by Lewis. Hypocrite.
by holmes213 on Nov 18, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So much truth is this statement.
by Chief WaDrew on Nov 18, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I watched the replay, it appeared to me that Quinn struck Suggs above the knee, anything below the knee I would agree is a cheap shot. Anything above the knee is unfortunate if it turns into an injury.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, it isn’t like he conspired in a murder…
by Dawg Nuts on Nov 18, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m still convinced he was trying to make the tackle.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nautre. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 18, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, it was definitely awkward, but I think his clumsy attempt was to stop the runner. The intent to hit Suggs was not really there.
That is the biggest difference between the Edwards and Quinn thing, I think it is evident that Edwards was going after a guy that was basically giving up on the play, whereas Quinn just awkwardly ran into Suggs.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
QBs are bad at making tackles and blocks. You think they cheap shot them? No. They’re just extremely terrible it at it. A la Favre in the pre season.
Edwards was just going for blood.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, I can’t really fault Quinn. He definitely dove in an attempt to try and tackle the guy who intercepted the pass, but I don’t think he was going after Suggs at all. He just was afraid of running shoulder to shoulder with one of those guys so he dove from far away.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I said it elsewhere, but I will repeat it here.
Suggs made the comments about having bounties on opposing players. I guess you forgot about that?
Ray Lewis cried after the Pats game about how Suggs was flagged for going low on Brady’s knees. Isn’t that what Quinn did?
Hey douchebags, what goes around, comes around.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you never post another NFL comment.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 18, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well ratbird fan, its like in Remember the Titans,
Hey Ref how bout unnecessary roughness!?!
Ref: “On the Quarterback?”
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 19, 2009 7:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
everyone has said it in some way, so i won’t talk about it much but this offense is absolutely horrible. daboll sucks and he really needs to be fired. i was expecting to see at least something from quinn, but nothing showed me that he had improved. in april it’s time to draft a qb… again.
i hope we get holgrem and i’m sure he’ll fire mangini. regardless of whether or not we want to give him another season, i highly doubt he will stay.
by emily522 on Nov 18, 2009 1:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No Bush, go McCoy. Bush’s game last week was his only multi td game in a year.
He’s their 2nd string back. Go with McCoy.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’ll rack up more yards and scores against Tampa than McCoy and Moreno combined.
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i’ll go with mccoy. i think bush may be too risky.
by emily522 on Nov 18, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fire Daboll? I was really pulling for that lynching myself.
Another QB derby. Sigh.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 18, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry if I offended. Joking of course, although I was kind of hoping for an extrajudicial punishment carried out by a group of angry fans that would result in Daboll no longer being our problem.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 18, 2009 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ronnie brown is out this week.
so should i go with reggie bush, knowshon moreno, or lesean mccoy?
by emily522 on Nov 18, 2009 1:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
inappropriate?
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nautre. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 18, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who knows. Maybe you’re a republican. Or you like hunting.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My only political party is Browns. I also have never fired a weapon.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You just basically sold yourself out answering my retorical questions.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, I just get nervous with political comments, try to keep that ambiguous.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right. But they were retorical so I thought I was within bounds.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You were, I just didn’t want anyone to insinuate otherwise.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m going to have to REC this.
Not what I meant…
by golanbatrac on Nov 18, 2009 7:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, sorry Ryan, but that was great.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t think it actually was inappropriate. Just thought the question was funny.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nautre. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 18, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
McCoy. He will be solid especially if you are in a PPR.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 18, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me just sum the 2009 season up for everyone real quick....
Ok we’ve seen the Browns article by Grossi comparing the 2009 Browns to the 1999 Browns but lemme just compare some teams.
Year Team Off Def Off Def TO’s Record Coach
2009 Browns 214 394 8.7 28.3 -8 TO’s Eric Mangini
2008 Lions 268 404 16.8 32.3 -6 TO’s 0-16 Rod Marinelli
2007 Dolphins 288 342 16.7 27.3 -7 TO’s 1-15 Cam Cameron
2006 Raiders 246 285 10.5 20.8 -23 TO’s 2-14 Art Shell
2005 Texans 253 364 16.3 26.9 -8 TO’s 2-14 Dom Capers
2004 49ers 286 343 16.2 28.3 -19 TO’s 2-14 Dennis Erickson
anyway you shake it out this is going to be a historically bad year and all of the coaches listed above were fired at the end of the season
by sleepy042 on Nov 18, 2009 5:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
my dad is a raiders fan (he likes the browns too). i’ve never understood why, since he was born and raised in new york. but anyways, when i told him that the browns were ranked the lowest he said he thought the raiders were worse. he probably thinks this because the browns have at least some hope of being fixed. on the other hand, the raiders currently have a wife-beating coach and a batsh*t crazy owner. and let’s be honest… the team is doomed until al davis is dead.
by emily522 on Nov 18, 2009 6:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
With Heiden and Zastudil on IR, this season looks like one of the best I’ve ever watched. The only TE we still have standing is Royal – who we brought in to block, who we are sending out to catch passes, who decides he wants to drop them better.
As for Hodges.. well all I can say is that he’s got the same surname as my favourite rugby player. That’s about it.
by skipkirk on Nov 18, 2009 8:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Our Pro Bowler is gone for the season. Damn.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 18, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cribbs? Heiden? Or Z?
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cribbs isn’t gone for the season is he? I thought Mangini said he was optimistic he’d play in the Lions game.
by skipkirk on Nov 18, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry to scare anyone. Sounds like Cribbs will be OK, to great relief all around.
I was speaking of Zastudil, who should have been headed for his first….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 18, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dang, Zas is responsible for our only victory this year. Has that ever happened in NFL history? The punter being responsible for the lone win?
by Roger Dorn on Nov 18, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They’re responsible for loses more than they are wins.
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 18, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What will be bad is now Zas is out and if Cribbs is out this weekend then are best ST players are out and now field pos is starting to look very very bad for the Det game.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 18, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ouch. If Cribbs doesn’t play on Sunday, I think I’ll pretend the game is on Monday night. (Kidding. I think.)
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 19, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I will listen to it on the radio as I am at work then but wont be happy if Cribbs does not play.He is really the reason I listen to every game so far.Just want to hear about him running one back.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 19, 2009 2:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, who was supposed to help Daboll with the playcalling last week? Im too tired to look it up.
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 19, 2009 3:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The QB coach… Smith. I think his first name is Carl.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nautre. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 19, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carl Smith it is / was. Here’s a good piece on him: http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/?p=20028
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 19, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW RK, there’s a typo in your sig file. You’ll know it when you see it. I’d have messaged you privately if this forum supported same. Or maybe I just can’t find it….?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 19, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, “nautre”, I’ll fix that. Thanks.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nautre. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 19, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha. Given the team’s sorry state, that would be practically Freudian.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 19, 2009 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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