Lerner to secure a Czar soon?
Some media links, most notably Barry McBride's Orange and Brown Report, are dropping several hints that Randy Lerner, owner of the Cleveland Browns, is working fast to secure the services of a football Czar. According to several writers, 2 leading candidates have been in Berea this week to speak with Mr. Lerner about the position, and rumor has it that some negotiations have begun with one or both of these Front Office Personalities.
Most have been pretty secretive as to whom the candidates are. But, knowing how the process works, the 2 potentials are pretty easy to figure out.
Mike Holmgren
Holmgren is a product of former HC/FO Hall of Famer Bill Walsh. Former Packers coach and Seahawks GM/HC, Holmgren would bring stability and a winning resume to the Browns organization. In his time with the Packers, Holmgren provided 7 of a possible 7 winning seasons. In that time, the Packers made 6 Playoff appearances, 2 trips to the Super Bowl, most notably the 1996 Super Bowl Champions, following with another appearance in 1997, losing to the Denver Broncos.
Following the 1998 Season, Holmgren accepted the position of Executive VP/General Manager/Head Coach with the struggling Seattle Seahawks. What he was taking over in Seattle was a team who had went 10 years without a Playoff appearance. Beginning its existance in 1976, the Seahawks hadn't tasted much success as a franchise. From 76' to 82', this Franchise had never tasted success. In 1983, the Seahawks hired Chuck Knox. Knox had seen time with the Rams and the Bills, consistently reaching the playoffs. He did not let the Seahawk franchise down, going 80-63 and 3-4 in Playoff appearances. But after Knox, the Seahawks wen back to shambles. 7 seasons of consistent losing and no playoff appearances, the Seahawks went out and hired the very successful Bill Walsh protege, Mike Holmgren. Holmgren continued building on his reputation, ending the Seahawks playoff drought in his first season. But as the VP/GM/HC, Holmgren wore many hats and was very inconsistent in that 4 year tenure. He was fired as VP/GM in 2002, after missing the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons. Following his being replaced, as a HC, Holmgren took the Seahawks to 5 consecutive Playoff appearances, including a loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 05' Super Bowl. In 08' , after a struggling season, Holmgren announce his resignation from the Seahawks franchise.
Though his drafts were somewhat questionable while in Seattle, Holmgren was able to win with the Franchise. It shows in the numbers and consistency of them, that he had trouble carrying all of those responsibilities. Holmgren is a great offensive mind, he knows how to get the most out of his players, and would bring one very important thing to the Browns table. Of his 16 Seasons, he led his teams to 11 Playoff Appearances. Mike Holmgren is one thing to football, a proven WINNER!
Charley Casserly
CC is the other name mentioned in the Browns open FO position. Casserly began his career as a Scout with the Washington Redskins, finding 2 of the "Hogs" that helped pave the way to Washingtons first two Super Bowl Winners. Eventually elevated to GM, Casserly had a knack for finding talent in the later rounds, most notably finding Brian Mitchell, QB turned RB/KR, and eventually joining Jim Brown as one of only 2 players to lead the NFL in Net Yardage 4 consecutive NFL Seasons. Casserly was eventually let go by Daniel Snyder in 1999, after 22 seasons with the Redskins Franchise.
He was then hired by the expansion Houston Texans. While it is noted their history of losing as an expansion franchise under Casserly, their recent success has Casserly's fingerprints all over it. Drafting players like A. Johnson, D. Ryans, Jerome Mathis, Owen Daniel, and the most controversial pick of Mario Williams over R. Bush and V. Young, which turned out to be more than genious.
Casserly's biggest issue as GM has been his evaluation and selections of QB's. Having drafted 2 HUGE busts in Heath Shuler and David Carr, Casserly doesn't seem to have a kein eye for the QB position. But, make no mistake about it, Casserly has a history of making very good picks in the NFL drafts and has plenty of experience and success in the role of a Front Office Executive.
Who would be our Coaches?
None of this is factual to who or how things would go in the selection process of a new Head Coach and/or Coordinators. Just some facts about Casserly and Holmgren's backgrounds which could lead to one of these groups heading up the on field activities.
Holmgren
Jon Gruden: Spent time under Holmgren in Green Bay as a WR's coach. Grudens first NFL assignment came from Holmgren. Gruden is an Ohio boy, so he has ties to the area and could want to again work under Holmgren in his home state.
Andy Reid: Though a consistent winner, Philly fans have grown tired of Reid and many have called for his head. Now, I am not insinuating that this will happen or is even a likely scenario. But, there are ties with Reid and Holmgren and with Philly not very appreciative of Reids services, and 2010 is the end of his contract. Supposedly, the Eagles and Reid are negotiating another extension, but after a loss to Oakland, and an extension that has been mentioned several times since the 09' Draft, I wonder if there is the possibility that Reid could be fired?
Jeff Fisher: No real straight line ties to Holmgren, but he is part of the coaching tree of Bill Walsh. So, I am sure that Holmgren is quite familiar with Fisher and his success under Sieferts tutelage. Also worth noting, Holmgren is by no means a defensive mind. I am of the belief that the most likely candidate to come into the HC opening, if Holmgren is the Czar, is going to be Defensive minded. Worth noting, Fisher coached under Buddy Ryan as well. This leaves the door open for retaining Rob Ryan as DC. Anyone should be capable of seeing the work Ryan has done defensively in his career and how that path has begun in Cleveland.
Casserly
I could honestly only come up with a couple of names that would link to Casserly.
Dom Capers: Was the HC under Casserly's watch in Houston, though a lack of success with those two doesn't make for a great combo. I could see Capers coming in as a DC/Asst. HC, considering his familiarity with the 3-4 D
Russ Grimm: An original Hog under Casserly's watch, Grimm makes a lot of sense. He knows the AFC North, he has a solid resume as an assistant and position coach, and is familiar with Casserly. Chan Gailey would likely be a name that would pop up as the OC in this scenario, as well as Dom Capers in a DC/Asst HC role. I would not be opposed at all to having Grimm as our HC. He does wonders for an O line, a place where the Browns have continually struggled, not to mention the work that he assists with in Arizona. Their high powered offense is intriguing to say the least.
Joe Gibbs: ???? There is a tie between the two. Not sure I like this scenario, but it is just another link to potentials in these scenario's.
My guess is that Lerner would request experience, which is why I stayed away from listing potential Coordinator hires.
Something could go down soon. Something may not happen until after the season. Regardless, Casserly and Holmgren are the leaders in the race and there is plenty for Browns fans to smile about when these names are mentioned. Experience, success, and winning is attached to their names and their names are attached to many other winners who we could see soon in the City of Cleveland.
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122 comments
Comments
i’ve heard plenty of rumors about holmgren, but this is the first i’ve heard of casserly. where is that rumor coming from?
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 10:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Casserly was apparently in Berea yesterday. The source was from Twitter that I saw, but apparently that source has been accurate before.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 20, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed. i like our current head coach. i hate our current OC, but i like our head coach.
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t really see much good that he’s done. I was optimistic at the beginning, but after this season I can’t see how anyone would say they like the job he’s done. We are noticably worse in almost every facet of the game.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 20, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that’s my reason for no longer defending him at all. I could have suffered through a 3-13 season if small improvements anywhere were seen. but i don’t see anything from the 2009 squad that is an upgrade over last year’s team.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Nov 20, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think the defense is a pretty obvious upgrade. the offense has been awful but its hard to pin all of that on mangini. he hired a bad coordinator, and thats his fault, but he can rectify that. are special teams hasn’t been much better, but they were good to begin with, so thats a wash. that makes mangini 2 for 3 in improving the different phases of the game.
i think its hard to look past the offense being so terrible because as fans that’s what we’re conditioned to care about the most, but we have to keep in mind that its only one part of the whole game.
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i can’t believe i just used “are” instead of “our”
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree with your assessment here, NTN.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 20, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
The defense is better? Now I know it’s only the midway point of the season but let’s look at some averages up to this point vs. last years averages:
2008 pts allowed 21.9(16th)
2009 pts allowed 25 (28th)
2008 356.5 total yds per game
2009 394.1 total yds per game
2008 Pass 204.7 ypg
2009 Pass 228.3 ypg
2008 Rush 151.9 ypg
2009 Rush 165.8 ypg
In 2008 we had 23 INT’s for 2 TDs. This year we have 4 up to this point with 0 TDs. I hardly expect us to match 23 int’s by the end of this season. Do you?
The only real improvement has been sacks. We had 17 all last season while this year we already have 18.
So, in general, up to this point we are clearly WORSE defensively. I hardly expect our play to get better, the only real possible improvement as I see it going forward is due to a lesser quality remaining schedule than the first half.
http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/come_on_cavs.mp3
by johnnyphoenix on Nov 20, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ypg is a terrible metric because it doesn’t factor in the number of possessions in a game that the defense is on the field. By virtue of having a historically bad offense, the defense will allow more yards per game no matter what.
The same holds true for points per game, more possessions on the field, more points allowed.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 20, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True enough about the offensive factor. However, be that as it may, then that simply accentuates my point…that the team is worse overall…and most importantly, I feel is a long, long way from respectability judging from what we’ve seen on the field. I do like Ryan though, however not as head coach for the long haul.
http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/come_on_cavs.mp3
by johnnyphoenix on Nov 20, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Overall, I don’t think anyone can argue with you that the team is worse. Individual aspects have shown improvement in certain areas.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 20, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The lack of INTs is a clear deficiency of this defense. We could certainly use those….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 20, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
to me turnovers is a difficult stat to judge. certainly the defense could do a much better job forcing turnovers, but the defense is also largely dependent on the other teams offense making mistakes. if the offense doesn’t screw up, its a lot harder to force a turnover.
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
watch a game instead of just looking at stats, we’ve had this argument tons of times on this board, but i think its extremely fair to say the offense deserves a sizable share of the blame for those numbers. This is a bit like blaming a hockey goalie for a poor goals against average even though the team in front of him is terrible.
to say nothing of the fact that most of those numbers you cited are bad ones to use to gauge a defense.
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. I believe the D coordinator is better this year, but certainly not the performance. I don’t see progress in any capacity expect in that regard, and perhaps special teams. And trust me…I’m not trying to find fault…I really want to believe there’s some progress going on…some direction. However, like you said…I do watch the games, and thus can’t see much of anything in that regard…
http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/come_on_cavs.mp3
by johnnyphoenix on Nov 20, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think the performance of our defense has been better for large stretches of games, but breaks down from time to time, causing the inflated stats you mentioned above. I believe there is solid progress defensively, but there has been a massive regression offensively, covering up any other good progress elsewhere.
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Many of those breakdowns have involved missed tackles by Brandon McDonald. We desperately need a #2 CB.
by golanbatrac on Nov 20, 2009 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point NTN. I feel like we’ve played good defense for half a game or more, and then come apart in places for a quarter or two. To me, this demonstrates what I think are correctable problems.
Fix the defects on defense and we might go places, as opposed to the offense, where we’re just consistently all-around awful.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 20, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The primary defect being Brandon McDonald.
by golanbatrac on Nov 20, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno….I guess I think any continued relationship between this franchise and Mangini is pointless and detrimental…regardless of any short term, ‘perceived’ improvements.
http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/come_on_cavs.mp3
by johnnyphoenix on Nov 20, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I completely respect that opinion.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 20, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks Dawg.
I guess I take it too seriously sometimes…but hell, if all of us didn’t, would we be here talking about it? This kills me to see this, and I think alot of us are on that boat. Tempers are short.
http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/come_on_cavs.mp3
by johnnyphoenix on Nov 20, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
as RDC said, thats a perfectly valid opinion, one i disagree with, but one with a good argument behind it.
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2009 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You want to wrap your head around your own ass and blow smoke up it that’s fine. Bottom line. This team is worse…much worse. Watch the games.
This regime is done. YOU know it…and I know it, everyone here knows it…and as much as we hate another regime change it is necessary. Sorry.
http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/come_on_cavs.mp3
by johnnyphoenix on Nov 20, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow, this comment is a little bit unwarranted, don’t you think? especially since you already responded politely above.
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2009 12:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think you’re looking at this with a bit too much knee-jerk reaction. watching the team, we focus on offense, because thats what we’re trained to do as fans, but i would argue the team is better on defense, and there is a legitimate argument to be made there. therefore, i don’t KNOW this regime is done (though they likely are) and i don’t believe another regime change is necessary, and i’m definitely not the only one who feels that way.
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2009 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m still on the Mangini bandwagon.
by golanbatrac on Nov 21, 2009 2:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Check the times when he posted these comments. I think he posted this one first then realized he got a little too upset then posted again above.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 21, 2009 8:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok yeah i didn’t notice that, good call
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2009 8:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have contact with a former player under Schottenheimer that I get info from. Not to mention, 2 FO types have been spoken to, 1 is Holmgren, the other is…… You can’t talk to anyone under contract, the easy pick is Casserly or Wolf. My contact says Casserly.
Don’t forget, Randy is giving the keys to the mansion over to this Czar, so don’t expect Mangini to be retained.
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
by Dawg26 on Nov 20, 2009 11:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
no offense, but how would a former player under Schottenheimer know what randy lerner is doing? does he have a position in the organization? how do you know 2 FO types have been spoken to?
i’m not saying the new person brought in will retain mangini, but its not as unlikely as you make it out to be.
please cite your sources, and please use the reply button.
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My bad, a former Brown who played with Kosar could NEVER have a source within the organization! That would be unheard of.
And nobody with sources reveals them. If so, they don’t get info anymore. This can be confirmed at other sites as well.
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
by Dawg26 on Nov 20, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And by the way, it is VERY unlikely that Mangini is retained with a new FO person. And if the Browns lose to the Lions Sunday, it might be sooner than later!
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
by Dawg26 on Nov 20, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i played high school football with brian robiskie and i have no idea whats going on with the browns. just because he played with bernie 20 years ago doesn’t mean they keep in touch or he has any real idea whats going on. even information given by jim brown has been contested by others with inside information.
when i say “cite your sources” i don’t mean give names. is this former player the same person that said 2 FO people had been interviewed? how are the easy picks casserly or wolf? this is the first i’ve heard their names. and while there is a good chance mangini could be fired, its far from a sure thing.
There are lots of former players, most of them don’t know anything. its not unreasonable for me to call this out as a shaky source at best.
also, unless you are a professional journalist who only reaches out to this guy to get info, you don’t have a “contact,” you know a guy.
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Casserly and Wolf are the easy ones because:
Jim Brown confirmed Holmgren was in town and Mangini refused to comment. So that is true. Knowing that you must receive permission to speak with a candidate currently working leaves Rich McKay and Floyd Reese out of the equation. Based on reports that the 5 names of interest are McKay, Accorsi, Wolf, Casserly, and Holmgren, that leaves 4. Accorsi has turned the position down. McKay cannot be interviewed, Holmgren has been interviewed. Reese is another name mentioned but currently under contract in NE. That leaves Wolf and Casserly. With “a guy I know” stating Casserly as well as 2 insider sites I belong to, I am going with Casserly as being a rock solid fact.
And do you honestly want to try and make a case for Mangini? I am willing to put money down that he is gone no later than the 1st week of the playoffs. Injuries to 2 players on his watch, undermining the working environment that he sold Lerner on in the interview process, the product on the field, a 1-8 record, having 2 weeks to prepare for MNF and laying an egg, all phases of the team other than the one under Ryan’s watch regressing…. Need I go further?
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
by Dawg26 on Nov 20, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You think our special teams have regressed?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 20, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, yes. There have been a few games where the coverage was bad, ST has given up a return TD this year, and I don’t see as many holes opening for Cribbs as has been in the past.
I am of the opinion that this ST group isn’t as good as before, though I do like a few of the additions that were made to the ST’s.
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
by Dawg26 on Nov 20, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see as many holes opening for Cribbs as has been in the past.
Just making conversation here, but maybe the Browns ST are having problems adapting to the new no-wedge rule.
I think, without looking it up, that the number of kick returns for TD’s is up this season.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 20, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I for one think the special teams has been outstanding. As good as two years ago. And that is with Dawson being hurt for most of the first half.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 20, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Dawson injury is a good point to raise.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 20, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
after your first sentence i knew this response was BS. many nfl insiders from espn and yahoo have stated jim brown doesn’t know what he’s talking about, with Adam Schefter saying “those he say the most often know the least.” so no, thats not necessarily true (although it probably is, based on other reports). How do you know they didn’t get permission? what insider sites? are they credible? you still haven’t given me a reason to believe your unnamed source has any credibility, other than he’s a former player. Casserly is not a rock solid fact, and you would make a poor reporter.
I would like to make a case for mangini. mangini has been cleared by the league of any wrongdoing in the injury to davis and i don’t know what the other incident is you’re referring to. what are you talking about when you say “undermining the work environment,” that is incredibly vague. as i’ve said, aside from the offense, the team has improved, the W-L record doesn’t show it because the offense has been historically bad. who layed an egg on monday night? thats right, the offense. with a decent offense this team still isn’t great, but they aren’t 1-8. so yes, you need to go further.
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the first quote was supposed to read “those who say the most…” not “those he say the most…”
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It isn’t yahoo or espn. dorn told you that it was also something that was on a reliable twitter acct that he knows of. That isn’t where I got it either. I got it from a former player and a very reputable site confirmed it. Your not obligated to believe me, but Casserly is in Berea.
Mangini interviewed well with Lerner, blowing him away with his structured plan and the involvement of Kokinis. Mangini never followed through and undermined the situation, using Kokinis as a diversion so to speak. Lerner isn’t happy about the fact that Mangini’s plan was bogus and his execution has failed. Don’t you think if Lerner wanted someone to teardown the roster and then rebuild it that he would have hired Pioli? He shyed away from Pioli when he was told that the roster needed torn down and built back up. Lerner thought that the roster had enough talent to not go through that. Mangini agreed, showed a plan, and did one hell of a sales job on Lerner. Lerner bought and is now paying dearly for bad product!
That is my opinion based on facts of the situation. No need in arguing, I will not share your view. I like that Mangini is a disciplinarian, but I KNOW that he has never done anything in this league. Bellichik runs his own Defenses, so don’t try to sell me on that credit for EM either. No biggie, we disagree, it won’t be the first time someone doesn’t share my views.
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
by Dawg26 on Nov 20, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
quit saying “a very reputable site” and just tell me which site, or will it stop giving you info if you name it? that’s all this is about. It’s not that i’m disbelieving casserly was interviewed, its just i can’t look at it as fact without a good source. I also have never heard that mangini told lerner a complete overhaul wasn’t necessary, please let me know where that came from, nobody i’ve read has any definitive info on what went on in mangini’s interview. how did mangini use kokinis as a diversion? the guy stopped doing his job.
again, i don’t necessarily think this is bad info, i’d just like to know where it came from before i accept it as fact.
also mangini had two winning seasons out of three with the jets. he drafted well and was able to turn around a 4-12 team that hadn’t been good for some time. that’s something.
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can figure out the “reputable source” of confirmation in the article. Some may consider it giving up insider info, though my info isn’t coming directly from that site. My info comes from a good source and a lot of times I look to/wait for the site to confirm what he is saying is true. In the 3 years I have known him, I haven’t gotten a definitive NO when confirming from that site. Remember a FO type getting fired for releasing info to different media outlets and teams this past offseason and getting canned? I try to wait until this stuff is posted or confirmed in other areas so that I can continue to receive the info that I receive, so I apologize for being so bland in answering your question.
By doing this, I have 2 sources to account for in what I may post in places. If I don’t have those to confirm the information I receive, then I don’t post it anywhere so that I don’t look like a jackoff.
Here is a note of why Mangini will have trouble finding work as an HC. Mangini botched their first big FA visit. Agents and players who are looking for a sizeable contract will not deal with him now. Young Practice squad types will now be sceptical with the injuries to Davis and Grennan.
I will get more into the Mankok discussion when I get back from work in a bit
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
by Dawg26 on Nov 20, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My source says your source wears his underwear outside of his pants.
by golanbatrac on Nov 20, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But my source says your source wears thongs backwards? Touche’
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
by Dawg26 on Nov 21, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why is it so hard to name a website? please, thats all i’m asking you to do. i don’t need you to name the player you’re referring to, its completely understandable that you don’t want to name him, but i can’t really see it as a good source without knowing his connection to the organization. that being said, if you could give me the website you are using to corroborate your info, i would be able to take you seriously. as it stands, your unwillingness to give me the name of a website does not speak well for its credibility.
without naming the site, i have zero sources for this info, other than taking you at your word, and in the realm of internet forums, thats not a very good thing to rely on.
what FA visit are you referring to? how do you know big name players won’t deal with him? young practice squad types will take whatever job they can get, especially considering mangini was found to be innocent of any wrongdoing by the league.
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2009 1:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“Some media links, most notably Barry McBride’s Orange and Brown Report, are dropping several hints that Randy Lerner, owner of the Cleveland Browns, is working fast to secure the services of a football Czar. "
It was sitting in the first sentence of my post. My guy says Casserly is in Berea, Lane Adkins of the OBR has not confirmed, yet seems to think it is true based on statements made in their ATI Forum. Sportstalk Cleveland “Twitted” it (not sure if that is a proper reference as I am not much of a Tweeter), and today Florio is posting it to PFT now.
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
by Dawg26 on Nov 21, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dropping hints that randy lerner is trying to hire someone hardly points to a specific person, and was common knowledge to begin with as everyone from espn to the plain dealer had reported that. why couldn’t you just mention sportstalk to begin with? and as you said, florio just posted it today, so that source is hardly relevant to our discussion.
to be perfectly clear, i never meant to imply your info wasn’t true, i just wanted to know where it was coming from.
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OBR wouldn’t commit to anything being firm in regard to the 2 gentleman in Berea being Holmgren and Casserly, but rather dropped many hints to it. That is the first place I looked to for confirmation is from Lane Adkins or John Taylor, through the ATI. The Sportstalk thing just more so allowed me to post it more openly, so I wasn’t dropping “premium content” from the OBR, though I only use it to confirm. Like I said, I get it in advance from my former player, just like to confirm things first so I don’t look like a complete jackoff. For the record, I never saw the Sportstalk Twit thing. Dorn posted that after I posted this
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
by Dawg26 on Nov 21, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And what you are now seeing is confirmation from many media outlets that what you saw first from me was correct! So, I think you can trust me as being legit. I only post once I have atleast 2 sources of good information, so I won’t be likely to post BS unless 2 sources are feeding me BS.
Not trying to make myself look cool or anything, but my info is pretty good most times. Not exact at all times, and sometimes I will personally speculate, as I did with the coach list in this particular post. But I will make sure I note that it is my opinion and such.
Sorry to be so bland about it all. Just don’t want to risk losing my OBR membership, so I am not always forthcoming in regards to specific things
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
by Dawg26 on Nov 21, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this is perfectly fine, and i will take your info more seriously in the future, just please understand that i had to be skeptical, as you are a new member to this site and had done little to build credibility. things like this go a long way towards building that credibility however, so i’ll definitely be interested in your opinion on future matters.
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Casserly and Wolf are the easy ones because:…
I had to rec this post. Lots of good logic here on who was in/not in Berea and why. Makes a lot of sense.
I have to agree with the analysis on Mangini too. I think he is a lame duck. The only thing that could possibly save him is a big turn-around in the remainder of this season and I don’t see that happening. Regardless of if that is fair or not and whatever Lerner has said he hasn’t been unequivocal in his support of coach Mangini. And if you look at the conditions and reasons that lead to the dismissal of Savage, I suggest that there was even less reason to dismiss Savage and Learner didn’t have any problem pulling the trigger on that one.
Right now I’m keeping an eye on Mangini’s handling of Daboll. Is he going to stick with Daboll to the bitter end? I don’t think firing Daboll will accomplish a lot but I’d think it would be something you would do just to give the appearance of trying to do something with the remainder of the season. It would also give an opportunity to get the new guy oriented and installing his system and ideas in games that don’t matter that much.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Nov 20, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on Daboll, Brownsyup. I think you fire him to show you’re aware of the issue and working on it. Whether it helps this year or not, it’s a good will demonstration that you’re attempting to fix the problem, and the experience the new guy will get won’t hurt.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 20, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree on the stuff about daboll, but those reasons for knowing who is/is not in berea are not supported very well, and should be seen as pure speculation.
i do think mangini faces an uphill battle in keeping his job, but i don’t think its inconceivable that he does. i also don’t think he necessarily deserves to get fired, but thats an opinion.
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do think that Lerner will move sooner rather than later (meaning the next few weeks) on a new GM. I think this because of the Kokinis firing. If he is not going to staff the position soon I don’t think the firing makes a lot of sense. Of course, it is possible that it was a nonsensical firing but I’d like to give Learner the benefit of the doubt here until I know otherwise.
I think a new Czar in Berea makes Mangini’s future more uncertain than before. I agree with you though that it is not completely impossible for Mangini to be retained. But I give it a very low probability with the caveat that the rest of the season shows less-than-dramatic improvement. Given that, I’d give coach Mangini a less than 10% chance of being here next year.
I don’t disagree with your opinion either. But being in charge means that you have ultimate responsibility for the overall product. And when that product’s is awfulness is making NFL history, the guy in charge is going to have to bear the brunt of the repercussions.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Nov 20, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with pretty much everything you said here. i might bump up mangini’s chances of staying, but thats a little silly considering how arbitrary it is to pick a percentage.
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Quote your source regarding the “must receive permission to speak with a candidate currently working…”, please.
Who isn´t working?
by mooncamping on Nov 21, 2009 7:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd like to toss a name in for a dark horse coach
Vikings DC Leslie Frazier – with our DL having 3 good 4-3 players & a very strong chance of DT N. Suh (not going to disrespect his 1st name with poor spelling) from Nebraska i think it would be pretty easy to make a good DL the source of the rebuilding effort. yea we have to suck it up with a QB unit that has a 3-29 TD/Int ratio over the L15 games but the rebuild starts there.
by sleepy042 on Nov 20, 2009 11:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I actually like Casserly, I think his resume is very strong, and his picks in retrospect for the Texans look very good with only a couple exceptions. (David Carr, Gaffney who has turned into a serviceable receiver)
by Roger Dorn on Nov 20, 2009 11:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention his work with the Redskins before that which was even better.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 20, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If the president has to have a former affiliation, I agree that Redskins of old, is not a bad choice.
by mooncamping on Nov 21, 2009 7:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lerner doesn´t have to do a darn thing.
We´re actually cooking pretty good.
There are no mandatory candidates, that´s fiction. And media conjecture is not compulsory for NFL franchises.
by mooncamping on Nov 20, 2009 12:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
"We're actually cooking pretty good"
What are you referring to here?
Your right, Lerner doesn’t have to do anything nor are there any Mandatory candidates…….. THOUGH, I don’t recall stating there were mandatory candidates. And to be honest, if Lerner doesn’t want to lose the fanbase that pads his pockets, I would suggest that he does something, rather than sit on his hands.
And for god’s love, please tell me where you keep coming up with Mack as being a better G than C? I have seen plenty stating that he can PLAY G if needed, but nothing stating he is better at G. Is this your own assessment?
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
by Dawg26 on Nov 20, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t bother asking him why he says the things he does. Trust me; it’s a waste of your time.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 20, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can read a user’s post history by clicking their user name below any post. It will give you some idea with what kind of general comment history is available for any particular user (advice for Dawg26)
by Roger Dorn on Nov 20, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the moderator, by the way.
He loves spearheading the mob.
by mooncamping on Nov 21, 2009 7:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
again, exhausting. there’s no mob, there are just many, many more sensible people on this site than there are goofy conspiracy theorists with foil hats and windows painted black.
by Dawg Nuts on Nov 21, 2009 7:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And this guy, is the flag in the wind.
by mooncamping on Nov 21, 2009 7:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How to tell a newby on DBN: If they reply to an MC post by something along the lines of “what the heck are you talking about?”
by Roger Dorn on Nov 20, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you´ve been working on your approach for a long time. Nice intro strategy, with the homework on the O-line.
Please, don´t be a control freak before you´re established.
by mooncamping on Nov 21, 2009 7:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok the Coaches you have chosen are a mess. this is all hypothetical because we still have a coach under contract and it looks like Lerner is not switching anytime soon.
Gruden is a maybe, but after the just signing the MNF contract it will be hard to get him next year.
Reid – Even though the Philly fans are growing tired of him, he is still putting together winning teams and gameplans. The owner would be stupid to get rid of him.
Fisher – He is turning around his team. I believe he just needs to show improvement from here on out.
Honestly, I am not too familiar with Capers and Grimm
But Gibbs will not come back, he has stated so and he loves his Nascar teams. He considered his return a break from Nascar rather than a new job.
by holmes213 on Nov 20, 2009 4:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I prefer Charley Casserly over Holmgren because Holmgren’s strength isn’t personel.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 20, 2009 5:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree with this.
I’ll take whoever is willing to work with Mangini and whoever shares Mangini’s draft philosophy.
by golanbatrac on Nov 20, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the fact that mangini seems to be good with personnel might mean he’s more likely to stick around with holmgren rather than with casserly
by notthatnoise on Nov 20, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll take whoever fires Mangini
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 20, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if we need someone whose strength is personnel. The way I see it, this isn’t a GM position we are talking about. This is the guy that knows enough about football to pick good GMs and coaches. Considering the players and coaches and GMs Homgren has worked with, I don’t think there is anyone better out there.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 21, 2009 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No. The ‘czar’ would hire the GM.
by golanbatrac on Nov 21, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well this guys seems to think we have little chance of landing any of the “big names” out there (Holmgren, Cowher or Shannahan mainly). He quotes some un-named source. He has some reasoning behind the rumors but I still think it can go any way with these guys.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Nov 20, 2009 11:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
La Canfora is usually on top of things.
In other news, Holmgren indicated in a Seattle radio interview that he hadn’t talked to Randy Lerner, but that he would “love to talk with Cleveland, someday”.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/20/holmgren-id-love-to-talk-to-the-browns/
by golanbatrac on Nov 20, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh man i can only hope thats true. i would love to have him as president. ideally i would want him as coach, even though i like mangini, but that doesn’t seem to be in the cards.
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2009 1:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the first time I’ve heard someone say “i like mangini”.
Like, I’m not against him or anything, but it’s not at the level where I can use the verb ‘like’.
by skipkirk on Nov 21, 2009 7:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha i’ll follow that up with “as a coach” from now on
by notthatnoise on Nov 21, 2009 8:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You do have one point though, dawg26. Do we need a “czar”. Meaning a czar, like the president of the USA is employing to oversee copyrights.
Now I don´t mean to compare to the copyright issue, I mean a czar in general. Such as, czar meaning king of the castle, an expert so to speak, a dispenser of wisdom, an inscrutable authority regarding team operations.
Following my own description of “czar”, I would definitely say no.
We need a president, an eminence besides the owner, to preside over the teams success. I´ve stated this earlier, we don´t need someone to manage success, we need someone to preside over success. Despite the recession, we need directors not managers. Deciders, not delayers. Honesty, not pandering.
The term “czar” speaks to the lesser motivations, in insinuating things are so bad, we need a power player to come in to set things right. We´ve been working towards our goal of a good sporting club, and we want to see the progress perpetuated.
It´s a matter of presiding and assisting success, not managing and dispensing success.
by mooncamping on Nov 21, 2009 7:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I just read in a yahoo sports article that Holmgren said on his radio station that he’s not sure about coaching again but he would welcome the opportunity to take on such a rebuilding project as the Browns ( http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-browns-holmgren&prov=ap&type=lgns ). It also said that Holmgren hadn’t met with Lerner, and it mentioned the thing where earlier this month Jim Brown said Lerner had met with “one of the great football minds in this country” and how he hinted it could’ve been Holmgren.
My question is… OK, I’m going to give Jim Brown the benefit of the doubt (despite the slightly less than respectable reputation he seems to carry on DBN in terms of talking about stuff he doesn’t know) and say that Lerner probably did talk to someone before Brown said Lerner talked to someone. If it’s not Holmgren, I wonder who it might have been?
Another idea I had… Maybe it was all Lerner’s plan for Brown to spill a little and hint about Holmgren. Maybe this is a reach, but if Lerner feels like he is losing his fanbase, it would make sense that he would want to hire someone who can win that would make the fans happy. Maybe he had Brown spill a little bit so he could scan the reaction of the fans to see if they’d be happy about a Holmgren pickup?
by shep615 on Nov 21, 2009 5:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If I had to guess, I think that Holmgren has already talked with the Browns in some capacity.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 21, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A++++++++
Everyone is being very tight lipped about the process. A lot of hinting and little in the way of facts.
Only 2 other “big names” could have been in Cleveland: Cowher and Shannahan. I have heard that Lerner is interested in Cowher, but is respectful of his loyalty to the Rooney’s. So, instead of going directly at Cowher, if the process goes to the offseason, he will go after Kevin Colbert instead.
Ron Wolf is another name that has been associated, but at 71 and 10 yrs removed from the league, I am thinking Wolf is at the bottom of the list.
Here are 3 names to keep in mind if the process goes to the offseason and what I think comes to be a fact.
Jeff Diamond – President
Floyd Reese – General Manager
Jeff Fisher – Head Coach
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
by Dawg26 on Nov 21, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know that I buy Lerner not going after Cowher due to Cowher’s loyalty to the Rooneys… If you buy into everything people say about Lerner, he’s all about making money. Cowher in Cleveland would be money in the bank. But this is all really just my own speculation, and I could be way off the mark.
Now, my thoughts on Shannahan or Cowher in Cleveland: I’d personally love it. But if I’m one of those guys, I’m looking at the reputation I have and seriously considering whether I want to put it on the line by going to Cleveland. I’d look at the team and see that it will probably take a while to turn things around. If I were to take the job, then it would be risky because turning the Browns around and making them into a winning team could take years. And, in recent history, every coach that has been in Cleveland has been run out of town because they can’t turn the team around in enough time. So, unless I turn the team around in less than about 3 or so years, I’ll be run out of town as the washed up coach that can’t win anymore. Sad label to be included in my stellar coaching career.
I could be wrong, but if I were one of those guys I wouldn’t risk it in Cleveland. I could see Holmgren being more willing to chance it, though. When people think Shannahan and Cowher, they think GREAT coaches. I don’t know if they’d think the same way about Holmgren, so I think he has slightly less to lose.
As for your predictions, I’m only familiar with Jeff Fisher (I haven’t kept up with FO names…). Who are Diamond and Reese? I would like Fisher, but I think he will probably stay with the Titans. Especially with Vince Young seemingly starting to turn the corner. I think it would be a big mistake for the Titans to let go of Fisher.
by shep615 on Nov 21, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Somehow I don’t see Floyd Reese and Jeff Fisher working together again any time soon. Did you miss the news about Reese’s wife blasting Fisher and the Titans on the radio a few weeks ago?
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 21, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, Floyd Reese drafted PacMan with a top 5 pick. No thank you.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 22, 2009 1:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am kind of linking Shep and Brad replies together, sorry, but it saves room and time.
Shep:
Diamond was Titans former President, NFL Executive of the Year, and a damn good FO person. Think about what you said with the VY / Fisher comment. JF was sticking with Collins. Bud “Bird Man” Adams forced JF’s hand to start VY. Fisher wanted to ride out Collins. Now that they are winning with VY, after Fishers refusal to remove Collins, I think that could pave the way for JF to hit the door. That is my opinion only though.
Brad:
Yes, aware of it. Saw two comments specific to JF, all others directed @ the Franchise as a whole. “Floyd and Jeff were not fighting”. “Floyd saved Jeff from getting fired twice. Had he not, he would still be there”
I really don’t see those as deal breakers…. Rather, it sounds as if maybe JF and FR had a good relationship, considering her words. It specified the FO as not letting him clean out his office etc, and didn’t really specify Fisher having any part in it. It was definitely worth noting though, as that could hinder my idea/choice.
Can any one Browns Employee be competent?
by Dawg26 on Nov 22, 2009 1:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah yes, good point. This is mostly new information to me… I still don’t know how I feel about the possibility of Fisher and the Titans breaking ties, but it does seem a lot more plausible than when I wrote the other post. Thanks for the info :-)
by shep615 on Nov 22, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
First comment I’ve heard that was directly attributable to Holmgren himself. I like that he is interested. I’m disappointed that he hasn’t already talked to Learner. One thing you have to watch too is that these guys play the teams off against each other to get a bidding war started. I’ve heard that Gruden did this to secure his contract with ESPN and he did it using the Browns as his bargaining chip. If I were doing such a thing I’d be more public with the team I really DIDN’T want to end up with. I sound like Mister Negative but I’m somewhat conditioned to be this way. It will be a few good years with the Browns before my pessimism wanes.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Nov 21, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i’d disagree with the gruden assessment. i think he probably has an “out” clause in his contract with ESPN and would jump if we drove a boat load of money up to his front door. i can’t imagine he would shut the door on his coaching career already, which is what he would likely be doing if he stayed out of coaching for the entire length of his ESPN contract.
by Dawg Nuts on Nov 22, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gruden is still a young guy, so he could definitately get back in to coaching after spending a couple more years doing MNF.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 22, 2009 8:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, he could, but i think his contract with ESPN is for 5 yrs. that would be a long time to sit it out, if he was out for the entire contract.
by Dawg Nuts on Nov 22, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The reports I’ve been seeing indicate that his contract is pretty iron-clad. I know there is always a way to break a contract but I haven’t seen anyone indicate that Gruden is available to coach next year after he signed with ESPN.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Nov 22, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure it was only three years.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 22, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Gruden will be coaching either next year or the year after that. I go to school in Indiana and I go to church not far from South Bend… Some of the ND fans think there might be a possibility of Gruden coming to coach at ND when if/when Weiss gets fired… I’d say it’s unlikely, but I guess the college level would probably offer even more opportunities for Gruden to get back into coaching. So I’m guessing he won’t be able to keep himself away.
by shep615 on Nov 22, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No ND will not get another coach from the pros.
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 22, 2009 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Way to sugar coat your disparaging remarks about a respected sports figure.
Randy Lerner probably talks to a hundred people every day. Holmgren is seeking reemployment eventually, that´s all we know. I also think the contents of Randy Lerner´s job listing, would exceed what he was prompted to utter in the heat of the game, and in the face of adversity, which was: “serious, credible leader”.
We haven´t had much to go on, which doesn´t surprise me, seeing as it seems fashionable around here to prescript authorities, and nail down every word they deem beneficial to their personal agendas.
by mooncamping on Nov 22, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Way to sugar coat your disparaging remarks about a respected sports figure.
No idea what you are referring to here… I didn’t think I sugar coated it… :-P
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Nov 22, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant shep615´s hopefully accidental remark, regarding Jim Brown´s credibility.
by mooncamping on Nov 23, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to tell where things line up sometimes when there are a lot of replies.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Nov 23, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FYI, you can use the “up” icon to see which comment someone replies to. It’s useful when there are a long string of replies, as you said, with spaces in between comments.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 23, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah thanks. I saw that button but never pushed it. Cool.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Nov 25, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
jim brown may be a respected sports figure, but he’s not a credible rumor source. after he implied lerner was talking to holmgren numerous people came out and said it hadn’t happened.
by notthatnoise on Nov 23, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right. In all honesty, I think I may have gotten Bernie Kosar and Jim Brown mixed up. I’ve heard people knock on one of the two on DBN… Whichever one went bankrupt and whose wife left him or something like that. So I’m sorry about that. What I was trying to say was that I would give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Not trying to dis him or anything.
by shep615 on Nov 23, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool. Classy response in admitting a mistake, if only half way.
by mooncamping on Nov 24, 2009 7:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i’m confused, whats the mistake here? jim brown is not a credible rumor source, and bernie did go bankrupt and get divorced.
to be fair though, i think brown is probably right in this case.
by notthatnoise on Nov 24, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i didn’t think you were, i was responding to mooncamping.
by notthatnoise on Nov 24, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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