Report: Shaun Rogers Out for Season
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 29, 2009 10:56 PM EST
in General News
157 comments
The Cleveland Plain Dealer is reporting that according to a league source, Cleveland Browns DT Shaun Rogers will miss the remainder of the season due to either an ankle or Achilles injury. Rogers was reportedly on crutches in the Browns locker room after the game with a distraught look on his face. Ahtyba Rubin will likely take Rogers' place for the remainder of the season.
Rogers wasn't the only player to leave with an injury Sunday against the Bengals. The following three players also left the game with injuries:
- DL Kenyon Coleman (knee)
- LB Kamerion Wimbley (knee)
- DB Brodney Pool (head injury)
The most concerning injury among those three has to do with Pool, who already has a history of concussions. With the league's recent added emphasis on protecting players who have concussions, you wonder if Pool is getting to the point where he might need to retire early.
"Of course, I'm worried about him," said Eric Wright. "I didn't know until just now he had a head injury."
If Wimbley can't go next week against the Chargers, the team's linebacker unit will feature Jason Trusnik and Matt Roth on the outside and Kaluka Maiava and David Bowens on the inside.
Any way you look at it, this defense isn't going to get any better in an already dismal 1-10 season.
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This is why you NEVER ask: “How could this get any worse?”
NEVER.
by Simmsinns on Nov 30, 2009 1:34 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
Will we win again this season without Shaun? I’m not feeling it.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 30, 2009 2:40 AM EST reply actions
Looking at the schedule, I don’t see another win on it.
I was holding out hope for the Oakland game, but without Rogers, the Raiders will pound us with their somewhat decent run game.
Since we have no offense, they will probably win.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 30, 2009 3:25 AM EST up reply actions
This is why I am not too depressed about the Rogers injury. With him we probably at best win one more game, and still maybe not at all. If it in anyway hinders him next year then I become concerned, but right now it really doesn’t make a big difference.
Very reasonably considered, but I’m still finding it depressing!
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 30, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
At the very least, we give time to a backup who could make the most out of it and be a really really good backup next year.
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Nov 30, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for accepting Eric Mangini´s apology and staying in Cleveland Shaun Rogers. Good luck with your recovery.
Now he can get on with Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2…..
I wonder if we were playoff bound if he would be out for the season.
http://prideofcleveland.blogspot.com/
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 30, 2009 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
Sit Pool for the rest of the year to. He doesn’t need to see the field again with the history of concussions.
Shame about Rogers, the guy has busted his ass here at Cleveland and has nothing but a horrendus football team to show for it.
Can someone fire Dabol?
What does the offensive coordinator have to do with the injuries to Rogers, Wimbley and Pool?
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Nov 30, 2009 10:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
One could argue that the more often that defensive players are on the field, the more likely they’ll suffer an injury. Right now, Daboll’s offensive gameplan is contributing to our offense spending less time on the field.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 30, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Dont forget Carl Smith is helping call the plays.
http://prideofcleveland.blogspot.com/
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 30, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
I think the key word may have been “contributing,” but I don’t mean to speak for anybody.
by Western Reserve on Nov 30, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
I personally am not trying to say that; I just mentioned how one could attempt to defend such a claim.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 30, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not buying it. Daboll might be awful, but to pin the blame for defensive injuries on him is a stretch. Win can find indirect links to just about everyone. Better to look at training regimen and practices. I’m thinking of Jamal’s comments about difficult practices before any failings of the offense.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Nov 30, 2009 1:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
“we” can find… (not “win”)
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Nov 30, 2009 1:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
cleveland.com says Rogers is going to injured reserve and Pool may consider quitting football after so many concussions
Don’t blame him.
In fact, I would be suprised if he comes back. At some point he has to think of life after football first.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 30, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Unless someone good comes available via FA, this certainly moves Safety up on the draft priorities list.
I thought Eric Berry was already numero uno before this?
Author of the segment "A Brownie For Your Thoughts," on DBN. Check it out.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 30, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
how is there a bright side to not making a playoff run? i’d rather be in the middle of a good season and still have a chance without him than just have the injury be one more turd on our huge pile of poop.
I don’t know about you guys, but I’m really glad we cut Brett Lockett! (sarcasm)
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 30, 2009 8:27 PM EST reply actions
In a bit of good news Adam Schefter reports that Shaun Rogers has a broken leg.
I say good news because that is much, much better than an achilles heel injury. I assume the big fella will be back next season at 100%.
yeah a broken leg is definitely bad, but at least we don’t have a lecharles bentley situation on our hands
by notthatnoise on Nov 30, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
unjinx
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 30, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
From clevelandbrowns.com, Mangini on Robiskie:
Usually the determining factor is what else they can do in the game
To summarise quickly he said that Stuckey and Massaquoi were doing well. Jake Allen did better in practice. Furrey (safety) and Cribbs (ST) had parts to play apart from WR. So Robiskie wasn’t activated.
From this I gather that Robiskie is just really not cutting it at the moment. Allen came in off the practice squad and kicked a 2nd rounder out for Pete’s sake.
Robiskie is just really not cutting it at the moment.
Then you don’t draft him high in the second round…
Sure. That assumes you knew back in March that he wouldn’t cut it in late November.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
exactly. robiskie was rated by everyone to go in the early-to-mid second round
by notthatnoise on Dec 1, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
I think it was a terrible choice to draft these players, who have essentially the same style and limited skill set, right after another so closely together in the first place. So while Rey Maualuga, Lauranitis and Bulter are solidifying their defenses, we’re stuck with two WR’s who can’t do anything for us now, and possibly in the future. I place the full blame on the scouts, not the general consensous. There have been times where scouts have passes up on highly regarded players before.
And most draft boards I saw taking Robiske that high had him going to offensively solid teams like the Pats and Colts. If they wouldn’t have taken him I wouldn’t be surprised if he dropped to the fourth or third round
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 1, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Lauranitis was not available to us at 36 unfortunately.
Also grouping Massaquoi and Robiskie into 2nd round WR busts is a little premature. It’s pretty clear that Massaquoi is way ahead of Robiskie as we stand right now. Massaquoi has been put in an unfortunate position as our number 1 receiver and only moderate offensive threat as a rookie. I can’t even think of another scenario where a 2nd round pick became a team’s number 1 offensive threat. I am not saying Massaquoi will be a number 1 receiver, because I don’t, but I do see him being a solid starter as a number 2 down the road.
I still do not care that we passed on Rey M.
Big L was taken right before Robo. It would have taken very little to move up one spot to nab him. I feel like we passed up the OSU player who was at the very top of his skill position for a OSU player who skill wise was towards the middle.
And it was Mangini who set us up in this predicament. We’re still without a major passing threat going into the future despite using 2 higher second round picks that could have been used on more impactful players at other positions. So now we still have to address the WR situation, along with our other problems using more mid round picks next year. And judging by the way this organization used them the past few years, I don’t have much faith in that.
And Cincinnatti picked up Rey and now they have a potent rush defense. Just sayin.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 1, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
It would take the other team’s consent to move up 1 spot to take him. It’s very possible St. Louis really wanted Lauranitis and had no intention of trading down. Any other opinion is pure conjecture.
I don’t think its off base vying for that trade considering all the moves we made. Of course this is all commentary but nothing wrong with that
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 1, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
I am just saying, for all you know we tried to trade up to get him and the Rams hung up the phone because they wanted him.
you’re right. but even in that case taking Robo still was a terrible choice imo. If they were actively going after Big L I fiqure they would have went after Rey Rey
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 1, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Robo does look like a bad choice at the moment. As I said, I would prefer not drafting WRs at the moment, but not much we can do now.
Laurinitis and Maualuga are very different players, though. Were they going after the one, that doesn’t mean that they’d definitely be interested in the other.
Even being different players they both could have helped us.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
I think Laurinitis could have helped, but Maualuga? I doubt it. He’s too dumb not to ultimately be a liability at ILB..
But he is producing this year while Robo is not playing. It would take some convincing for me to believe that Robo learning his position and becoming a number 2 and that Maualuga being dumb and becoming a liability are both certain enough to say Robo was a better pick than Maualuga.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
“Producing” this year should not be the main goal of our draft picks. While it is completely valid to be worried about Robo, that doesn’t mean that Maualuga was a good long-term pick.
Producing this year isn’t my main goal either nor was my point that Mauluga was a good pick. My point was that it’s just as likely that Robo won’t end up doing anything as it is that Mauluga will become a dumb liability.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
I still don’t understand all the love for Maualuga. Is it just because he went to USC and was on ESPN all the time making big hits with announcers fawning over his “intimidation” skills? Because everything I’ve read from people who scouted him said he wasn’t going to be an impact player in the NFL because he wasn’t fundamentally sound. He would roam the defense looking for big hits but he couldn’t cover anyone, which is why he was taken off the field so much at USC on third down.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 2, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
This.
Big hits on ESPN. Everyone loves big hits.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 2, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with this, but he is making an impact for the Bengals. Nabbing a starting LB in the 2nd round is a good choice. But I thought as you did before the draft that he wasn’t worth taking.
At the time, with Lauranitis gone, I was hoping we would take Maualuga with our first pick in the 2nd round and I still struggle to understand why after taking Robiskie we then take Mass in the 2nd round, unless we thought Mass was the best player on the board at the time. I just find it hard to believe we really intended to rely on 2 rookie wr for much this year, so why not address another positional need with one of those two picks. Also i had a serious Jones for McCoy and Greene and felt either would have been intriguing there in the 2nd although getting Davis made me feel a little better and hopefully we will eventually get to see him play in a Browns uniform.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
I still struggle to understand why after taking Robiskie we then take Mass in the 2nd round
Here’s why:
Kokinis: I’m on the phone now Mango, we’re confirmed? All set to go? The WR right?
Mangini: It’s Mangini you blockhead. Yes. Go ahead.
Kokinis to Commish: Yes, we pick Brian Robiskie out of OSU.
Pick is confirmed. Later:
Mangini: WTH? Who’s Brian Robiskie?
Kokinis: You said go for it!
Mangini: Massaquoi you idiot! Mohammed. Massaquoi!
Kokinis: Oh shit. Well we have another pick coming up…
That is also why Kokinis was fired.
by skipkirk on Dec 1, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think it was a terrible choice to draft these players, who have essentially the same style and limited skill set, right after another so closely together in the first place. So while Rey Maualuga, Lauranitis and Bulter are solidifying their defenses, we’re stuck with two WR’s who can’t do anything for us now, and possibly in the future. I place the full blame on the scouts, not the general consensous. There have been times where scouts have passes up on highly regarded players before.
And most draft boards I saw taking Robiske that high had him going to offensively solid teams like the Pats and Colts. If they wouldn’t have taken him I wouldn’t be surprised if he dropped to the fourth or third round
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 1, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
No, you aren’t seeing it in the pro’s because he isn’t playing.
Speed is very low on the list of things a receiver needs to be successful. My guess is that Robo is struggling with getting off press coverage and various other things that must be done to see the field.
I only agree to the extent that if you don’t meet a certain speed threshold, then you can’t be successful as an NFL receiver. I don’t think Robo is below that threshold, but he is slow enough that he needs to excel at other things to be a good pro. Some guys can use great strength or leaping ability to make up for it. Route running only works insofar as you can get off of the line of scrimmage in press coverage.
I wouldn’t say its very low. IMO you either have to be physical or have speed. If you can’t fight for the ball against these DBs then you better be able to leave them behind.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 1, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Zone coverage, pattern reading, and press make speed very unimportant as long as you meet the threshold that Dorn speaks of above. Ask Heyward-Bey how important his 4.3 is when the defensive backs have a 15 yard head start on him.
Robiskie’s problem was never speed at OSU; it was getting off press coverage. He struggles with the hand-fighting aspect of it.
If he couldn’t fight off college dbs, what would make one think he would be able to do it in the NFL?
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
which is why I said you have to have speed for be physical. That doesn’t mean that if you have speed you’re going to be successful as with any natural attribute
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 2, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
I am more disapointed about Veikune than I am Robo.
I thought that Veikune was going to be a pass rusher at OLB. All we heard during training camps was that Veikune was picking things up well and Robo was far ahead of MoMass at WR. So much for that.
I don’t think you draft projects (Veikune) in the second round.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 1, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Well, you think different than most teams in the league (or at least those who run a 3-4). Hybrid linebackers/ends are the most important players on a 3-4 defense. It’s been a long time since the Charles Haleys of the world were still there in the fourth round. Every hybrid linebacker is a project (even the one’s taken early in the draft aka Chris Long). A lot of teams are willing to take the risk because the reward is so high and the position is so vital.
Well, you think different than most teams in the league (or at least those who run a 3-4). Hybrid linebackers/ends are the most important players on a 3-4 defense
You’re right. I don’t agree. A NT is 10x more important in a 3-4. Without a big man, it doesn’t matter who your OLB’s are. Look at what has happened to the Jets defense this season since Kris Jenkins has gotten injured. Same for San Diego’s run defense when Jamal Williams went down.
Don’t get it twisted, OLB’s are very important, just not the center cog of the defense.
Every hybrid linebacker is a project (even the one’s taken early in the draft aka Chris Long). A lot of teams are willing to take the risk because the reward is so high and the position is so vital.
Long played 3-4 in college. The Rams now run a 4-3 so I don’t understand why he matters.
Aside of that, it is false to say every one is a project. Suggs and Merriman both won ROY as hybrids. Clay Matthews is doing very well in GB. Plus did you watch SNF and see rookie Paul Kruger make the big INT?
I am not asking Veikune to be a world beater. But to expect a second rounder, whose main draw coming out of college was his pass rush, to be on the field every Sunday isn’t a reach. In fact, it should be a red flag. I can see why a WR may not be on the field, but a LB should be able to help in ST.
In the NFL teams take projects at one position. That is QB. There isn’t one other position in which a player sitting out a full season could be viewed as a good thing. Yes some hybrids can’t get on the field because they suck (Gholston) or because there are veterans ahead of said player (Larry English and even he has 2 sacks!). But too assume that it is normal for a hybrid player to be invisible for his rookie season is a normal thing, you are crazy.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 1, 2009 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
We could have had Kruger instead of Veikune. sigh
by TheRealSlimShady on Dec 1, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
On top of all this, everything I’ve read has the Browns ‘projecting’ Veikune as a MLB. Why would you draft a project MLB in the second round? I dug up this article by Terry Pluto from May 2nd:
“A real test of the new regime’s talent evaluation will be Veikune, whom most draft experts had in the third round or lower… If the Browns’ scouts are right, this guy becomes a pass rusher from the outside linebacker spot. If others are correct, he helps mostly on special teams… The Browns also have mentioned Veikune possibly playing some inside linebacker.”
So Pluto’s worst case scenario was that Veikune only contributes on special teams. Problem is, he doesn’t even do that, as he’s been inactive most (all?) games this year. With this team having so many holes to fill, drafting Veikune appears to have been a major mistake.
becomes
This is the key word from Pluto.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Right. These guys are still rookies. It’s way too early to start predicting failure for any of them.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 2, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Merriman, Matthews and English were linebackers in college and are linebackers in the NFL. It’s much harder for a college DE to transition to linebacker or even to learn to drop into coverage from the line than it is for a college linebacker to learn to learn to play a percentage of snaps as a down lineman.
Kruger is the only one you list who is a reasonable comparison to Veikune. Kruger has one tackle, 3 assists and an interception on the year. One. Tackle. Three. Assists. One. Interception. And the Brady Quinn fan club is sighing?
So if we get Veikune a tackle and an INT wil he suddenly be a good pick?
Larry English was a DE in college. He was All-MAC as a DE. Hell Kamerion Wimbley had his best season as a rookie going from DE to OLB. I’m not here to split hairs about college positions.
But my point still stands. These players were not projects. This is the NFL. Other than QB, teams do not draft projects. Coaches and GM’s have a limited time to show that they are worth keeping around. Anyone who is taken in the first and second rounds better damn well be ready to help that team ASAP. If the Browns thought he was an ILB, then there was no freaking way they should have taken him in the second. Projects are for late in the draft (See: Hall, Alex) not a 2nd rounder.
As you say all the time, if Phil Savage left a thin roster why in the sam hell are we drafting a project at ILB? ILB is an easy postion to find in the draft. It, like RB, is a plug and play position. It is beyond foolish to waste a second rounder on a guy that is not going to see the field.
Kruger is the only one you list who is a reasonable comparison to Veikune. Kruger has one tackle, 3 assists and an interception on the year.
The point about Kruger was not his stats. But the fact that his team was in OT versus a division rival in a game that had massive playoff implications, and his team trusted him enough to put him on the field. Our boy couldn’t find the field with a map.
So if we get Veikune a tackle and an INT wil he suddenly be a good pick?
Hell yes he will be! Anyone who can have an INT and a tackle from the bench isn’t just good, they are magical!
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 1, 2009 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
I wish I could agree about RB being a plug n play, but I am still waiting on the Browns to do this once since the return.
Lee Suggs!
Fess up. Someone on this board has a Lee Suggs jersey. I’m looking your way Chris.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 2, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
My jerseys:
Winslow (got for 20 bucks after his motorcycle crash)
Edwards (gift)
Quinn (gift)
I honestly am afraid to wear the Quinn jersey around, and the other two don’t play on the team anymore. If we draft Berry, I will make my first full priced purchase of a jersey.
I have a feeling that Eric Berry would be a big seller.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 3, 2009 2:07 AM EST up reply actions
i’ve got the following:
Eric Metcalf
Tim Couch
BQ (got it for $7 because the number is printed a little low on the front)
anyone want to guess which one i wear on sundays?
Understood! Although keep that BQ jersey. There may be hope!
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 7, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I have Joe Thomas and Alex Mack.
What can I say, I love the big uglies.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 3, 2009 2:07 AM EST up reply actions
The red flag went up for me as soon as I heard he was switching to MLB primarily. That still makes no sense to me.
Right. This is what makes it unlike every other transition to LB. It is almost always either OLB to ILB or DE to OLB. DE to ILB is pretty rare. If nothing else it makes his development really slow.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Right. My original point was that you do not take projects in the second round.
In fact I am having a hard time figuring out any player that has gone from DE in college to ILB his rookie year. I know that Tedy Brushci has been tossed around, but even Tedy was a 3rd rounder.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 1, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Bruschi is the obvious example and the guy who Mangini compared Veikune’s skill set to. Fluid and quick enough to cover and pass rush, and big enough to stop the run.
Bruschi had 10 tackles his rookie season.
You’re selling our man Tedy short. Bruschi also appeared in every game his rookie season. He had 4 sacks. He also had two sacks in the Super Bowl.
Also according to profootballreference.com, Bruschi was an OLB until 2001. So once again, I cannot find one instance to where a college DE was switched to an ILB as a rookie.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 2, 2009 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
You can take a QB project at any round. The amount of QB’s that were drafted and sat the bench for an entire season are all over the NFL. Brady, Henne, Palmer, Garrard, Schaub, Rivers, Cassel, Romo, Rodgers, Favre, Delhomme and Hasselbeck are all QBs that are starting QBs that were/are projects at one point in time.
Other than that, it is foolish to draft a “project” of any other position, especially an easily filled one as ILB, in the first two rounds of an NFL draft.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 2, 2009 1:40 AM EST up reply actions
my conclusion is that anyone who didn’t pan out so far is considered a “project” by the eyes of apologist browns fans.
Mangini flubbed the first 2 rounds of the draft. Simple as that. We were in a great position with 3 2nd round picks to really fill this team up with difference makers and at this point in time we got very little compared to what we could have had.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 2, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, and after his first season Mario Williams looked like a dumb pick, too. How is that working out now?
It’s way, way, way too early to start judging our draft picks. These guys have only played a half of a season. Let’s give these players time to see what they can do.
Also, you think everyone besides yourself is an apologist so I don’t give much regard to what you say.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 2, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Mario was drafted with the tools necessary to be a dominant player. He has the fastest DE(probably ever), one of the strongest, and had tremendous success in college against good competition. Veikune, Robo, and Momass lack those phyisical tools so their more risky without those tools to fall back on or the higher reward payout
by The Licensed Pessimist on Dec 2, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Mario Williams started every game as a rookie, totaling 47 tackles and 4.5 sacks. If Veikune had half that production this year, we’d all be thrilled. He doesn’t even contribute on special teams. How can a rookie linebacker not even contribute on special teams?
He was also the #1 overall pick. Veikune was selected about 50 picks later so the expectations were much different. The point is that you can’t judge a draft pick after one half of a season.
Expectations for a second rd pick, like Veikune and Robo, are to be on the field and demonstrate improvement as the year progresses. Going into the draft, we all knew the team had needs at OLB and WR; unfortunately two of our second rd picks used to address these needs can’t even find the field this year. IMO that is a significant factor in the Browns’ 1-10 record.
And BTW, you were the one who brought up Mario.
I know I brought up Mario Williams, as an example of a draft pick which was initially universally criticized but later proved to be a good pick, thus demonstrating that you can’t judge a draft pick after a few games or even one season.
You were comparing Williams’ production his rookie year to Viekune’s production, which has nothing to do with my point. That’s what was wrong with your comment.
I apologize for sarcasmdave’s definition of apologist apologist. He didn’t mean it. He’s just kidding. Maybe it’ll take a couple of years for his definition to grow into the role we expect from it…..
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 2, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
I am not saying that Veikune will never end up being a contributor to the Browns.
I am saying that it was dumb for the FO to draft a DE and try and switch him to ILB.
And it is a bad sign in my eyes that Veikune cannot get on the field in any capacity. The Browns claimed Arnold Harrison off waivers in mid November. Harrison has played in the three games since. A guy off the street is better equipped for the field right now than a second rounder? That is alarming.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 2, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Vaikune went from DE in college to prognosticated DE/OLB hybrid, to having his skill set reevaluated to now count as a protege at MLB, albeit in a 4-3 schematic. It´s an honest appraisal of his talent. He could play as a run stuffer at ILB in our 3-4 schematic, but lacks the mobility to cover a significant area in pass or run situations.
We´re hoping other franchises have seen enough glimpses of him, to make him a hot commodity eventually, so redesignating him MLB (not ILB!) from hybrid DE/OLB makes sense, as well as the dark horse comparison to Maualuga, which if he does turn out better makes him a smart pick in the 2nd round.
We are not seeking a hybrid DE/OLB. We consider it a trend that has burnt out rather quickly, no one will run it straight at you. Those who have played football, would agree, that OLB is a demanding position, to include speed and agility. The OLB is the best athlete on the team, those hybrids are not, the special skill set is very limiting.
Anyone know how fast Gerhart is?
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
I was under the assumption that Gerhart does not need speed.
When you run over every single defender that gets in front of you, speed is not an issue.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 1, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
I just saw the replay of the ND game and he looked like a beast. Granted it was ND, but from what i’ve been reading he’s been doing it all year. I just couldn’t tell how fast he was because he preferred to run players over.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
He said today on the Scott Van Pelt show that he expects to run in the high 4.4s or low 4.5s in the combine.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
As I predicted, Mangini said in today’s press conference how pleased he was that we haven’t turned the ball over in 2 games. Makes me sick actually
As a coach you have to stay positive, look for the things your team is doing well. Sure its spin but what do you want him to say?
http://prideofcleveland.blogspot.com/
by Red-Right-88 on Dec 2, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
My point is that I think the offense is being geared around not turning the ball over instead of trying to make things happen and I think it is a huge error.
And we wonder why our QB has shown reluctance to throw the ball down field? I think Quinn is finally starting to try to open things up a bit now, but this fear of failure can take a toll on you and bring about overbearing conservatism.
by Western Reserve on Dec 2, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
I support ball control offenses, but it would be nice to be able to score once in a while.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 2, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
That requires a running game. And I’d be fine with it, too, if we could do it.
by Western Reserve on Dec 2, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Very true. But hey, we can say goodbye to Jamal and say hello to…. DeDe Dorsey?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 2, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
I am a huge fan of DeDe. Would like to see him in here and get some totes.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 2, 2009 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
ProFootballTalk has backed off a bit from the “Browns sign Dorsey” story, but apparently we gave him a workout and the signs are still good. Stay tuned!
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 2, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
I think we like to pretend we do given the amount of times we start a series off with Jamal up the middle for 1 yard.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 2, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
My point is that I think the offense is being geared around not turning the ball over instead of trying to make things happen and I think it is a huge error.
Almost as if the only goal is to not get blown out.
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 2, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
Prog-RESS’ should be part of the ‘pro-CESS’…no?
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 2, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
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