Crazy Rumors Ensue Regarding Browns GM Position
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 3, 2009 11:21 AM EST
in General News
216 comments
What a wild morning it has been. After learning that general manager George Kokinis was fired yesterday, there were reports this morning that Ernie Accorsi would be the team's general manager and Bernie Kosar would be groomed for the future general manager position.
However, the Plain Dealer and WTAM are reporting that Accorsi has personally denied the reports that he will be the general manager:
Accorsi, who last served as general manager of the New York Giants, said he is "happily retired" and has not been in contact with Browns owner Randy Lerner regarding a consultant position.
We'll follow this story as it progresses.
0 recs |
216 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Accorsi has been immersed with three other franchises (or more, even?) as a consultant in recent months. So that assertion is more relevant than his claim to be retired.
Source:
Cleveland Plains Dealer
posted on cleveland.com:
By Tony Grossi
November 03, 2009, 9:25AM
Quote:
"I am not taking any GM job anywhere. Period," Accorsi said. "I am not taking any full-time job. I serve the league office as a consultant. I have consulted in various areas with four NFL clubs the past two years."
by mooncamping on Nov 3, 2009 11:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
he’s basically saying he doesn’t want to work for this organization, like Cower or any such respectable candidate.
by L Train on Nov 3, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And sadly I have no reason to believe otherwise.
This many years of suck and downward spiraling can do that.
I also think the faux-good season of 2007 only set us back a few years, and resulted in nothing but regression has come of it, (aside from Joe Thomas and Josh Cribbs), considering we couldn’t even manage to make the playoffs.
by Simmsinns on Nov 3, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Dorn, may I prompt you to issue your opinion regarding the situation at this point, under this post? I respect your opinion.
by mooncamping on Nov 3, 2009 11:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think the error was not in firing Kokinis, but putting him in that position in the first place.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 3, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly don’t care who is the GM, but someone needs to step up and help this team next year.
by holmes213 on Nov 3, 2009 11:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The media and this site lead me to believe Mangini has been in charge at least since Kokinis was fired. What about it?
by mooncamping on Nov 3, 2009 11:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Dawn Aponte seems to be acting GM. She handled the release of Cundiff a few minutes ago.
by golanbatrac on Nov 3, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
anyone think they’ll go after Chambers?
by L Train on Nov 3, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. We only have by today to grab him I think.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 3, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If there’s any truth to the rumor that Quinn is not playing due to his salary escalators, I’m going to go out on a limb and say they’re not going to put in a claim on an aging WR with bad hands and pay him the $2.25M remaining on his salary to play for a sinking ship.
Just my hunch, though.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Nov 3, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They’re making room for someone. Two players released today.
by golanbatrac on Nov 3, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think just Lil’ Billy Cundiff (which was expected). I can’t find news on anyone else being released.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 3, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cundiff was released, that is all I know of.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 3, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 3, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They release players almost on a weekly basis. I will be completely shocked if this week’s is to clear room for a veteran WR getting paid $2M for half a season.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Nov 3, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll be shocked as well, though I’d have no problem with it if they did pick him up.
by golanbatrac on Nov 3, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My first thought about her is that she is just another Mangini lacky. But after reading that she was with the Jets long before Mangini, I think that it could work.
by holmes213 on Nov 3, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
She´s billed as a salary cap expert. I don´t want someone concerned with the club´s budget.
by mooncamping on Nov 3, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. I would prefer a proven talent evaluator.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 3, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i fear mooncamping has strong brainwashing abilities. he seems to have gotten to you today, my friend. is it all of the flattery he has heaped on you?
by Dawg Nuts on Nov 3, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I did notice that, not sure what to make of it.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 3, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he may just be trying to win us over to his side, one person at a time. that’s his plan for global domination. that and fullbacks, of course.
by Dawg Nuts on Nov 3, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
V.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Nov 3, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re seriously like his best friend he’s asks you for everything and all except for that little outburst he had, he adores you.
I’d be afraid.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 3, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am a little nervous I offended him which caused that outburst, so hopefully he knows that I don’t mean any harm.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 3, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it’s the flattery, Mooncamping just has a good point here. I’d much prefer someone that is more concerned about how well someone can play THEN about how much we’d have to pay them.
by Simmsinns on Nov 3, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i’m all for that. i was speaking more about the special liking moon has taken to dorn in a few separate posts today.
by Dawg Nuts on Nov 3, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, I see. Just read through some of the other threads from today.
It’s almost too… well, I don’t know, but amuzing also. I sort of like the new Moon over the old one though, maybe he’s started to take his meds.
by Simmsinns on Nov 3, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
She sounds smart and credible. I’d be fine with a female GM
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 3, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, I think it would be a great move to have the first female GM, assuming she is qualified and does a good job.
I think it would also be good to move Bernie into a public relations role where he serves as an intermediary between the fans and Randy Lerner. I think that is what Dawg Pound Mike wants (actually, I bet he would like that job) and I know I would enjoy seeing the weekly Bernie press conference.
by Bumblyjack on Nov 3, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can only hope, the fact that she is female has absolutely nothing to do with an football decision made whatsoever. It should make no diffence at all.
by Simmsinns on Nov 3, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
B-A-N-A-N-A-S
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Nov 3, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
haha good job. seriously though, its impossible to tell whats going on right now
by notthatnoise on Nov 3, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I only hope we come out on the other side a respectable franchise with a better vision for the future. Maybe Lerner is tired of being criticized and has decided to take control of his organization/team/investment however he views it.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Nov 3, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Current Needs
We don’t really need a GM this minute. Let’s take some time.
Our most pressing need is to find someone who has a track record of finding talent in the draft, especially someone who has a track record of being solid with early round picks but who also can find some late round gems.
If we hire that can fill the above needs than we will be OK in the short term leading into the long term business of drafting in April.
It won’t be easy because anyone who is worth anything is currently working. So, hire the best interum you can find, get ready to draft and let your interum GM begin the search for new head coach.
Get rid of Daboll. The Browns have an assistant who has experience calling plays.
Let the young guys play. It cannot get much worse than it is now.
Let Quinn finish the season. His two games at the start of the season were again good defences. I don’t think we still have a read on how good Quinn can be.
by vincefitz on Nov 3, 2009 12:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Current Needs
Almost forgot. Fire Mangine. Make Ryan the interum HC.
by vincefitz on Nov 3, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its Mangini. At least you didnt say Mangina
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 3, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We already have someone with a track record for finding talent in the draft. Eric Mangini.
by golanbatrac on Nov 3, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why did Mooncamping leave and all of a sudden pop out like crazy out of nowhere?
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 3, 2009 12:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Half sorry for Kokinis. The draft, which should have been his baby, still looks nice for the future depending on how those LBs develop.
by LondonBrown on Nov 3, 2009 1:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The answer is obvious
Matt Millen
by CaptainPorkchop on Nov 3, 2009 1:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
“You play to win the game!”
I roll with that.
by Simmsinns on Nov 3, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good one. you shouldn’t be drinking this early in the day.
by Dawg Nuts on Nov 3, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought we established that drinking before talking Browns is the only way to go.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 3, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, you drink before watching the Browns.
by Bumblyjack on Nov 3, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
at this point, i guess drinking continuously is the only way to go.
by Dawg Nuts on Nov 3, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s this. The only conceivable response to this entire situation is to be perpetually drunk until it’s all figured out.
I hope your liver can hold until 2011.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 3, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s optimistic
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Nov 3, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with you! always keep capt morgan on hand! especially on Sunday
Orange and Brown until I'm underground - and still then probably.
by brownsqueen10 on Nov 3, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i cant keep doing this, i still have a hangover from the bears game. Its just NOT HEALTHY
by siejecy on Nov 3, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good time for a bye week then?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 3, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad there isn’t another team that would be dumb enough to hire mangini as hc if the browns dumped him. God what was Lerner thinking. But then in a dream world he would help the browns get talent like he did the jets after they dumped him.
by Cavs4 life on Nov 3, 2009 3:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I can’t believe some of us are still harping about how bad Mangini is. He was given a bad team to begin with and he’s working with what he has.
Take a look at the Jets’ rushing game. He helped build that O-line and now they are one of the best in the league this year (1st in ypg). He took a team that was almost dead last in rushing, to top the 10 in two seasons.
And they’re pass protection isn’t too shabby either.
I’m still willing to give him some time with this operation. Complete off-season turnarounds don’t always happen. Too many of us expected great things before anything occurred.
It is what it is and I’m riding with it.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 3, 2009 4:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I tend to lean toward this line of thinking myself.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 3, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
me too, too many people think he took over a playoff or .500 team. too many holes to fill….and what we fire him and the next guy comes in with all those draft picks and looks like a genius. He is stockpiling picks like Belechick use to and Jimmy Johnson…lets see how it all works out. I like the Sam Rutigliano being an advisor. :)
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 4, 2009 8:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Browns changes--
Maybe Randy and Eric are considering adding some cheerleaders to the side line, and adding a logo to the helmets, so the fans will have something new to complain about and forget about fundamental football?
Really though-if the Browns were to add a logo to their helmets this season—what would it be ? Perhaps a Little Debbie Brownie????
by Sleddog49 on Nov 3, 2009 7:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Are you from Cleveland.com?
(By the way, there is no right answer to this. You reek of idiotic comments.)
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 3, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Who rec’s this shit? “You reek of idiotic comments”? What does that even mean?
by golanbatrac on Nov 3, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Okay please censor and he was whining about us putting logos on our helmets to whine about. He then suggested putting Debbie cakes on our helmets as logos.
Idiotic.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 3, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I rec’d it.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 3, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That makes no sesne.
Whom’s side are you on?
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 5, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. I get whom right but sense wrong.
Grammar fail.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 6, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whatever they do
id rather not root for a franchise ran by fans =/ especially the kind i see on cleveland.com.
by siejecy on Nov 3, 2009 7:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Whatever they do---
Then stay at home and play Madden by yourself
by Sleddog49 on Nov 3, 2009 7:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
are you saying you would like the franchise to be run by the fans?
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How does Belicheck’s situation work?
Does he have a GM, and if so, does that GM have the final say?
by tribe71 on Nov 3, 2009 8:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cesario is the Director of Player Personnel aka the de facto GM. I believe he runs the show, but probably yields to Belichik when Belichik really wants something.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 3, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pioli was in the Cesario role before last year.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 3, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So Cesario hasn’t really been there for a whole year yet?
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 3, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course not. Pioli left after last season.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 3, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
caserio (cleveland guy, went to john carroll) has been w/ the NE org for several years. also, technically, pioli was vp of personnel, whereas caserio is director.
floyd reece is also a “consultant” in the personnel group there.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 3, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As the the guy at the top of player personnel, this is Cesario’s first year.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 4, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mangini looks very uncomfortable now that his former friend is no longer his boss.
How long will his new boss put up with an underperformer who was selected by someone else (the answer is until Lerner decides he made a mistake in hiring Mangini, unless Lerner hires a GM he respects more than Mangini.)
by palcal on Nov 3, 2009 9:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
NFL.com said that Koko didn’t know about the Edwards trade untill it happened. So “Mangini’s boss”, I doubt it. Mangini has been running the show since day one.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 3, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How did Kokinis not know? Are these people the dumbest execs alive?
by joeee on Nov 4, 2009 1:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Learner hired Mangini.
Mangini and Kokinis are friends.
Mangini hired Kokinis.
Kokinis was never really in the Learner/Mangini loop.
Learner gets pissed..
Mangini tosses Kokinis under the bus to save his own ass.
Learner fires Kokinis.
Mangini wipes his brow.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 4, 2009 3:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My guess based on what we’ve heard so far is, Kokinis took the job expecting to have some actual responsibility, but rapidly found out that Mangini was going to make all the decisions. Instead of quitting, he shrugged, decided to keep the title, and just stop trying to do the job. Somewhere along the line this became clear, the Browns organization started gathering evidence that he wasn’t really even working in the position (major trades without his knowledge, surfing monster.com during business hours, etc) in order to get out of paying him after his termination, and then finally pulled the trigger on the firing.
One point I’m curious about is what Mangini’s role in this move was. Did he actively support the move? Resist it? Just shrug himself?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 4, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
everything i’ve heard says mangini and kokinis weren’t geetting along, and the whole idea in hiring him was that he would get along with the head coach, so if he isn’t why keep him around?
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is that, but it definitely seems like there’s more going on here than the two of them growing apart.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 4, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The monster.com remark is a joke, yes?
Honestly it is a little sad how beef headed NFL execs are. A lot of these guys are really low-talented. I don’t care what the social dynamic is in the Browns org, as a GM, if you aren’t a complete mouth-breather, you find a way to be in the loop for freaking trades.
My contempt also applies to coaches who get called “genius” for displaying competence or shrewdness. Like, clearly, Bellichick is intelligent on the order of Steve Jobs as evidenced by his clever timeout calls and solid drafting history.
by joeee on Nov 4, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The monster.com bit was a little gag, yes — although some news reports have indicated that the Browns “security and legal department were reviewing phone records to build its case” against him, so the idea that his communications use was somehow dubious is not much of a stretch.
I could have suggested it was 1-976-HOT-LEGS, but why reach for the low hanging fruit.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 4, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oops. My word program changed it. I didn’t catch it.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 4, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure what to think at this time.So much chaos around this team right now.Still don’t think the GM was the issue other then his not talking to any one.
I just want to see some life from the team.We need a player that has passion no matter what is going on.We need a guy with Ray Lewis type of fire.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 3, 2009 9:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i’d prefer not to credit that murderous wretch with anything positive.
by Dawg Nuts on Nov 3, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well got nothing to say about the killer side of him but I do like his fireon the field and did anyone see that hit that Reed had this weekend WoW!
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 3, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i’m not a fan of excusing horrendous behavior just because someone is a good athlete
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone else read any of the reports about "Dawg Pound Nutsack" meeting with Learner???
It was the lamest crap I have ever read.
They all reported that "Mr. Nutsack" wore his plastic bone hat ‘?!!’ to the meeting. What a freaking goof ass!
That dude does NOT speak for me.
According to the reports, Learner "really liked the idea of putting up the team history around the stadium"!!!! WTF??? What a bunch of fucking shit!
This shit just pisses the fuck out of me.
Sorry about the language. I just let it out.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 3, 2009 10:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yea, in the end the “protest” was about getting the team history up and allowing for more standing at games. When pressed for specifics on the radio, that is what DPM came up with.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 4, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. I’m so ashamed.
“IF I DON’T SEE A 20 FOOT MURAL OF “THE FUMBLE” OUTSIDE THE GATES I’M GOING TO HIDE IN THE RESTROOM MONDAY NIGHT!"
That’s basically what they said.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Or an autographed Jim Brown jersey framed by the entrance of the apparel shop. I’ll definitely fly my family to Cleveland to see that.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 4, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you see the glass half full then, yes.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HA!!
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 4, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was just a fracking show gave Learner the ablity to say “See I care”.This meeting was just a joke.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 3, 2009 10:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i can’t believe you said fraking. even worse i can’t believe i know what its from.
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Damnitt, me too. Does it make it more acceptable that my girlfriend is the one who liked the show in our household?
by rufio on Nov 4, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just a question directed at you and others:
do you really not know how to spell our owner’s name, or is it just another nickname lacking any wit or cleverness?
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Nov 4, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can someone just e-mail me when this all gets sorted out? Thanks.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Nov 4, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wow. Way to stay in it. After Indians crap though, I understand you’re tired of it.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re not wrong for chiding me about my attitude towards the Browns. I’ll admit I haven’t been paying much attention for a long time. This GM firing is the most I’ve been into it in a long while.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Nov 5, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just a thought
I grew up as a 49er fan, and during the 1979 season our team was pathetic enough that after the final home game was a victory (the second and last of the season) the players carried the first year coach off the field on its shoulders. Not saying Mangini is the answer, but with the talent on the Brownies right now…. lets just say that you can’t always blame the chef for serving a turd sandwich.
by CaptainPorkchop on Nov 4, 2009 12:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
That first year head coach did end up working out ok……
by CaptainPorkchop on Nov 4, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you insinuating that coach to be the one who installed the West Coast into NFL history?
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2009 12:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m from San Jose and I know who you’re talking about.
What Walsh did best was stock pile draft picks, and Mangini has been doing just that. Not sure how many, but we have +10 for next year.
I have faith in Mangini.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 4, 2009 12:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What Walsh did best was draft well.
You can have 20 picks, but if you can’t hit on them, you can’t win. Obviously having more picks on which to hit helps tremendously, but you still have to hit a home run every now and then.
Walsh did that. Tremendously.
by rufio on Nov 4, 2009 2:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, rufio.
If you have seven picks and have to deal with what you get, is one thing. But if you have fifteen picks and are able to choose the best seven out of that fifteen, is a totally different thing. That’s where a home run ‘can’ come from.
That’s what I was trying to say in the first place.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 4, 2009 3:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it’s a great thought but it doesn’t sound like Mangini inspires the same kind of likability that gets a guy carried off by his team…. or the necessary weight restriction.
by L Train on Nov 4, 2009 1:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just pointing out that 2-14 the first year and 6-10 the second year…. got him a third year.
(As for draft and trade disasters…. chew on this one…. OJ to the niners for (I think it was 4) draft picks) One of the picks was the 1979 #1 overall. Walsh was unable to take the QB he wanted (Simms) and settle for some backup from ND in the third round.)
Next years team will be Mangini’s, and while I don’t expect more than 6 wins, I do expect them to be ‘competitive’.
by CaptainPorkchop on Nov 4, 2009 12:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
And just to PISS EVERYONE OFF….. Aston Villa is doing very well right now. They’re only a few games out of first. Randy isn’t flying over there to stare them down in the tunnel.
I was never in to soccer until my sister married a Limey. He got me in to it.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 4, 2009 1:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t really care about Aston Villa at all, as long as they aren’t hurting Lerner to the point where it hurts the Browns.
World Cup is ballin’, though.
by rufio on Nov 4, 2009 2:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know no one here cares. Just messin’ around.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 4, 2009 3:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
With soccer you hire a good manager and let him work it out. Way more complicated than the front office a football team.
In any case, Villa doesn’t spend much (relatively).
by skipkirk on Nov 4, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What Marty had to say on the Browns.
Former Browns coach Marty Schottenheimer said on his Sirius NFL radio show that he’s not interested in a consultant role with the Browns.
“I don’t even see that kind of a role for me,” he said. "I’m not familiar enough with what they have in terms of their front office. Let somebody else do that. It’s really a very unusual circumstance and it’s going to take some dramatic measures in my mind to be able to get the thing headed in the right direction.
“The bottom line for them right now is they don’t have a real good football team. They’re not playing even to the level that the talent is expressed and it’s going to be a very, very difficult circumstance.”
He said the Browns should be concentrating on trying win games instead of firing their general manager in midseason.
“You need to leave some sense of stability at least through this season because players that are there signed to long term contracts are thinking, ‘What in the world is going on here?,’” he said. “You worry about the reaction of your players and, believe me, let’s not make any mistake about this: That feeling that a player has about his organization is an integral part of their ability to perform at the highest level.”
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 4, 2009 3:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good points by Marty. He was always a good football man, why he never could win a big game is odd.
by Grockcubs on Nov 4, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just Don't Get Bernie
I understand that he was a cerebral QB and fairly succesful Browns QB – but does that guarantee success as a GM? Brian Sipe at least has coached a HS football team in SoCal and is now offensive coordinator for SD State. Why not him as well?
Truth is that Bernie is sort of a pathetic figure. He has a failed marriage, a failed business, and wrote off a $1.5 million loan from the Browns organization. Doesn’t it worry anybody that a man that made a mess of his personal life, his business, will suddenly make the Browns a kickazz organization? I like Bernie – but let him consult and earn back the money he wrote off. You know what they say … those that can do and those who can’t consult.
by realmccoy on Nov 4, 2009 3:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I can’t speak for everyone, but I sure as hell don’t want Kosar as the GM.
But I’ll vote for him if he forks up that case of beer under his desk.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Nov 4, 2009 3:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would not mind him as offensive coordinator, he may sound 3 sheets to the wind when he speaks but he can tell you what is going on on the field. Who here thinks Bernie right now, with no experience could call a better game that Daboll?
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 4, 2009 9:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My dog could call a better game than Daboll, so that’s hardly a relevant argument.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 4, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
woof…ok I give on that, but I have to believe Bernie still has a great Football Mind….
by Red-Right-88 on Nov 4, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One example it could work is Baltimore GM, Ozzie Newsome.
by holmes213 on Nov 4, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt Kosar knows what’s happening on a football field, but wasn’t it his realtime adjustments and on-field intuition — along with all the God-given talents — that made him an effective QB? I’m just not sure those things necessarily translate to the booth, but without question, that man could read a defense and knows football.
by Western Reserve on Nov 4, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
okay, but could he still do it now? the game has changed since bernie played, and i doubt he’s been immersed in the day to day practice, playcalling, Xs and Os type stuff even as a consultant.
by Dawg Nuts on Nov 4, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, that’s fair, yet another reason why the transition might not necessarily be possible.
by Western Reserve on Nov 4, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
chew on this…the browns are going to have 5 pro bowlers…and win 2 games…
thomas, rogers, cribbs, zastudil, pontbriand
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 4, 2009 12:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cribbs for sure, I’m not sure on Thomas, he hasn’t had his best year so far.
by Cols714 on Nov 4, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What? He’s been great. He didn’t give up a sack to Jared Allen in the Vikings game (who’s been dominating everyone else since then). He did give up one sack in the Bears game, but outside of that I don’t really remember him getting beat much at all.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 4, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think someone over at NFL Fanhouse looked at the offensive tackles. They had Thomas as of 2 weeks ago giving up 2 sacks.
He’s been good, not great. Which actually will probably put him in the pro bowl.
Also, Max Starks did not give up any sacks to Jared Allen and has given up only 2.5 this year.
For the complete list, see this
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/10/22/between-the-lines-which-tackles-are-starring-and-which-ones-are/#cont
by Cols714 on Nov 4, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I can say for certain that 1 of those 2 that are mentioned were the result of Anderson running directly into Thomas’s man.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 4, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, that happened.
DA rolled way out left for no apparent reason.
by skipkirk on Nov 4, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stats don’t tell the whole story. Film tells the whole story. Joe Thomas is a great player.
by rufio on Nov 4, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Thomas is the best player offensive player in the AFC North. There. I said it.
by Ryan Kelsey on Nov 4, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Um, no. He’s not the best offensive player in the AFC North. That would be Josh Cribbs.
by Cols714 on Nov 4, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is called special teams
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 5, 2009 12:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But Big Ben has the RINGZZZZ!!!!!!
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 4, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Are you telling me that you wouldn’t trade Joe Thomas or Josh Cribbs for Ben Roethlisberger?
by Cols714 on Nov 4, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t trade Brett Ratliff for Ben. I hate that d-bag, and you know it.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 4, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I know. But at least we agree that the Crennel commercials are awesome and that we hate the Yankees.
by Cols714 on Nov 4, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love the Crennel commercials though
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 5, 2009 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Coors Light cans talked to you?
Um. Sureeee.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 5, 2009 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love the Crennel coors light commercials too bad they couldn’t manipulate his coaching to be cool like that, i’m cool like, i’m out.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Nov 5, 2009 3:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love the one where they ask him what it’s like to get rejected by a woman and he responds that he doesn’t know because that’s never happened to him.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 5, 2009 7:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he owned Allen, made him a non-factor.
by Western Reserve on Nov 4, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thomas made it last year on, what was, a down year. I’m sure he’ll make it this year.
by golanbatrac on Nov 4, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I think you are right. He was at his best as a rookie and hasn’t been quite up to that standard the last two years.
by Cols714 on Nov 4, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t really agree, I think this year he has been just as good as his rookie year if not better.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 4, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Me too. He’s looked great to me…the picture of a LT.
by drjeo on Nov 4, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You make absurd accusations just so you don’t seem extremely wrong. And when you’re proven wrong you slightly change your absurd statment to sound even more absurd.
Stop it.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Let me consult you Mr. Lerner… Fire Daboll and Mangini during this bye. Make Ryan interim Head Coach while still running the D. Promote Carl Smith to OC. Then talk with Accorsi, Parcells, Ozzie, Rooney, and anyone else you can find to help you understand who you need at the top to build an organization that this city and these fans can be proud of. And you build it from the top.
I don’t buy for a minute letting another fired/retired head coach come in and be given the keys to Berea. You need an organization and that organization has to have experience and credibility in the league. No more “taking a shot” on someone.
In your interview with Mangini did you ask who his OC would be? If you even asked the question and got Daboll as a possibility the interview should have ended.
I wish you much success because that would mean we get a team that we can root for again .
by rusty1ga on Nov 4, 2009 12:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
In your interview with Mangini did you ask who his OC would be? If you even asked the question and got Daboll as a possibility the interview should have ended.
How was Lerner supposed to know that Daboll would be a terrible coordinator? He had never been one before, but that doesn’t mean he was going to be bad when given the opportunity. You can’t find new coordinators without giving someone their first shot. Just because it hasn’t worked out doesn’t mean he should have known it ahead of time. Please explain how you knew (and Lerner should have known) ahead of time that Daboll was going to fail as OC?
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 4, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The comment was made right after I said ‘No more “taking a shot” on someone.’
Point being, in my opinion if my new coach was telling me he was going to try someone at the highest level of coaching on the offensive side I would have balked.
Whats with the negativity “Please explain how you knew…”? Dude, its a post and its my opinion that I would have wanted someone with experience because the needs on the team were/are many and we don’t have time for someone to learn on the job.
You can disagree all you want but you don’t have to be a jack about it.
by rusty1ga on Nov 4, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All he wants is credibility, not random statements based on opinion.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brad made a point here that I made in another discussion earlier today – that it simply isn’t realistic to say that a team should only hire experienced coordinators. Just a little thought shows the inherent weakness in that argument. Where do new coordinators come from, if nobody hires people without experience? Saying that the name Daboll would have been a deal-breaker is easy to do in hindsight. Trouble is, the hiring has to be done in present tense.
On the other hand: I don’t really see anything wrong with his saying that, for him, the idea of hiring a new coordinator is a non-starter. I’ll admit that I’ve been pretty quick to challenge some of the less well-reasoned posts by some of the noobs, but maybe we do need to think about whether we’re getting awfully snarky here. Just sayin’.
by drjeo on Nov 4, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t being snarky. I was just trying to explain why BB is like he is and why he’s not a Jack*ss.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah; I didn’t really think you personally were being snarky (if that’s even a real word). Just that the tone of the discussions has taken a fairly nasty turn at times recently. I’m all for challenging and/or attacking moronic drive-by rants, but think we need to be careful that we don’t attack well meaning but less-informed newbies right away. I say give them a little latitude, lure them into a false sense of confidence, then utterly destroy them, reducing them to a quivering pile of regurgitated jello! (Just joking).
by drjeo on Nov 5, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I have been testy as of late and I have overreacted in some situations but I have it under control now.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 5, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bill Walsh was a new coordinator at one point of his career. Bill Belichick was a new coordinator at some point in his career. Mike Shanahan was a new coordinator at some point in his career. You don’t become a great coach without someone giving you the first chance at a job.
You can’t say that Lerner should have known not to hire Mangini if he wanted to hire Daboll as an offensive coordinator, as if you knew he was going to be bad. That’s simply hindsight. If he had come here and improved the offense then I’m sure you wouldn’t be complaining about him being a new coordinator.
What do you mean “we don’t have time for someone to learn on the job” — of course we do. We weren’t going to make the playoffs this season no matter who was OC so this is the perfect time for someone to get accustomed to the position. This entire season is about building for the future. That’s like saying we can’t afford to play any rookies because we don’t have time to wait for them to learn how to play in the NFL — that’s exactly what we want to do. (Now, I’m not saying that we had to have a rookie OC, just that your statement didn’t make sense.)
I wasn’t “being a jack”; I just don’t like such a blanket statement made purely in hindsight like you made.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 4, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Could not have said it better myself.
Some people just don’t get it.This team was lucky to walk out of this year with 4-5 wins.Do not understand for the life of me why pepole are freaking out about this year.Yes we are very very bad but if you did not see this year comeing I do not know how to tell you any other way.This team has been gutted.The draft is what we have to look forward to.
Keep in mind some of the greatest people in this game had to have a chance taken on them one way or another we all start at the bottom.
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 5, 2009 8:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to interject myself into the heart of this debate, but are you sure you aren’t relying on hindsight a bit yourself? I mean, did you fully expect going into this year that, “This entire season is about building for the future”? Because I think that might be easy to say now as it seems self-evident sitting at 1-7, but I think some of us expected Mangini to come in and take some steps forward immediately.
by Western Reserve on Nov 5, 2009 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I certainly thought this was a rebuild year. I don’t expect us to win more than six games next year either.
by golanbatrac on Nov 5, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was in that camp. I didn’t expect a complete turnaround, but I did think Mangini would bring a sense of discipline and organization to the club. I still think they have a chance to win 2 or 3 games in the second half, but maybe I’m just an eternal optimist. My thinking is predicated on their ability to score at least a few points on occasion, however. Hard to imagine winning many 3-0 games, and that’s about where the offense has been “performing.”
by drjeo on Nov 5, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly did expect Mangini to help us take some steps forward, but I never thought we’d be competing for the playoffs. I thought we’d be lucky to get close to .500 and I would consider that “building for the future.” I certainly didn’t think this was a team who needed an experienced coordinator because we expected to win right away and couldn’t afford any time for him to learn on the job.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 5, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i never thought Mangini was a good fit. I knew it would be bad as soon as he was hired.
by holmes213 on Nov 5, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I told everyone I around me that the Browns would be 3-13 this year and if we was lucky maybe 4-12.So yes I did think this year was about getting a foundation in place.Once I seen the trade of Winslow and the trading down for more picks that this would be a very long year.
I am upset about Quinn not getting his fare shot at lerning on the job and still stand by DA is part of the reason we are 1-7.Yes Quinn had isues the first 3 games but look at the teams we had and tell me you think DA would have done any better?
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 5, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who are you to tell me what I can say and what I can’t say? How did yours become the only right opinion?
I said this team doesn’t have time for someone to learn on the job, I meant it, I still mean it and if you don’t agree with that so what? How does that make you right?
And yes you are a jack! I don’t care what kind of statements you like and my statement isn’t based on hindsight. If I were at the interview I would have felt the same way.
Get over yourself.
by rusty1ga on Nov 5, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s a moderator and a well-respected, intelligent, and valued member of this community, that’s who he is. Show some respect when you are new somewhere.
He’s presented well thought out responses to your logic, legitimately questioning some things you said. If you don’t agree, feel free to respond by refuting his counterpoints or present some well thought out responses of your own. If you can’t handle that, this might not be the place for you.
by rufio on Nov 6, 2009 2:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of us did think Daboll would struggle though. I was one. I think rufio might have, too(sorry if you didnt)
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 4, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, I was definitely worried about him. The thing is that no matter what our feelings at the time, Daboll could have still succeeded or done the opposite (see: our offense). None of us knew. We predicted, and some of us predicted correctly, but no one really knew.
by rufio on Nov 6, 2009 2:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But usually just being a QB coach for a team with subpar QBs for 2 years doesn’t make a good resume for an OC
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 6, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would Ozzie, Parcells or Rooney talk to us?
While we are firing everyone we might as well build a new stadium as well. Maybe it could float out on Lake Erie that way when we lose we can make the coaching staff swim to shore.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
by Villeslgr on Nov 4, 2009 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Rooney would want to talk to us and help us out in any way possible. He is intimately familiar with the rivalry that exists between Pittsburgh and Cleveland, but it’s no secret that it has become a one-sided affair since 1999. If I’m Rooney, I want to help this sorry franchise out so that the rivalry can recapture some of that lost intensity. That’s only going to do good things for the Pittsburgh franchise. Not that Pittsburgh is having trouble selling tickets, but can you imagine if we got that intense rivalry back, what it would do for them on a national level? If that rivalry became heated again, Browns vs. Steelers would be a fixture on MNF for at least one of the 2 regular season meetings.
Ozzie is no stranger to the Browns either. I think that he would help the most historic franchise in NFL history regain some credibility and respect if all it meant was giving a little bit of advice on how to hire the right person to operate a successful NFL franchise.
by Browns town on Nov 5, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well said, though totally wrong. Rivalries are nice, but wins and championships are better. Ozzie and Rooney would be fools to help anyone but themselves.
by golanbatrac on Nov 5, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ozzie and Rooney would make for one hell of a buddy cop movie.
by golanbatrac on Nov 5, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dear God Ozzie. We got a Slaughter on our hands.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 5, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Take back what I said how Rooney would help us out in any way possible, excuse me. Though I still hold out hope that he wants there to be a rivalry like the days of old.
I agree that wins and championships are better, but how much sweeter is a win against a fierce rival? I know that if I’m confident in my team and my staff, then I can have my cake and eat it too in that we’ll have a tough rivalry but we’ll still come out on top.
I’m sure my opinion is idealistic and thus not exactly realistic, but I can always hope. I guess that all I’ve ever really known from the Browns is losing, whereas since 72 when Rooney took over, they’ve had a long history of winning. Who in their right business and cutthroat mind would want to chance that?
by Browns town on Nov 5, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Parcells just took a job with Miami when they were awful (1-15, maybe?) and no one thought they were within 5 years of the playoffs.
It can happen.
by rufio on Nov 6, 2009 2:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who could we get that wouldn’t be “taking a shot” on
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 4, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Uncle!
Chris, I really enjoy the site. I go to it for the wealth of information in your posts. So much so that I actually got a SB login so that I may participate in discussions.
This will be my last comment. I had hoped to incite dialog and maybe even some articulate debate, and I have, but for the most part the responses are negative and at times make personal attacks. I think that most people here are knowledgeable and opinionated but when the responses become editorials of your comments then the responder appears a bit pompous. Their responses often show their true ignorance on the subject matter, but I wouldn’t otherwise editorialize their responses.
Great site. Keep up the good work and I’ll leave the comments to those that know it all.
by rusty1ga on Nov 5, 2009 7:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
We don’t try to be pompus we’re just really anal about ignorance.
And this is a geuine comment. Ignorance just means you don’t understand! You’ll see that most of the posters that rattled your cage are usually stingy in general, or were just messing with you.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 5, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if you’re talking about me, but I never made any personal attacks against you. Saying that I think you are wrong is not a personal attack.
Don’t try to make yourself a martyr just because people disagreed with your comments. If you make intelligent posts and back them up with facts then you will be well-received by us all here.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 5, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow… After all this stuff flying around about new posters and making intelligent posts and comments… I must be honest, I am slightly intimidated to get my feet wet, so to speak :-)
But I’ll do it anyway. As far as the bad losing record, I feel like we could’ve seen it coming. I’m not sure why people are so flustered by our record and the fact that we are pretty terrible this year. At the very beginning I was optimistic for close to .500, but I think it should’ve been clear that this was going to be a bad year record-wise when we traded our two most talented receivers and brought in 25+ new players. It’s been pretty clear to me that this year became about changing the culture (namely, being more disciplined) real fast. And I think it’s working… The fact that we’re 1-7 and players haven’t been turning into Kellen Winslow Jr. or Braylon Edwards in front of reporters speaks volumes, along with the fact that we are penalized much less than in previous years (I think I remember hearing during the game against the Bears that we are one of the least penalized teams in football?). I also think some of the players that Mangini has drafted/brought in are starting to pay off. I think the fact that losing Eric Barton to injury is a huge blow for us says something (brought in by Mangini). Plus the fact that Veikune and Maiava both played decently against the Bears along with Costanzo builds Mangini’s credibility in my mind (we looked OK, possibly even decent defensively against the Bears).
So, in short, I guess I like what I’ve seen from Mangini. He seems to at least have an idea of where the club is going. I’m not at all willing to dub him Mangenius yet, but I think some of his moves are showing he knows what he’s doing, and I think more will start to pay off in the future.
by shep615 on Nov 6, 2009 5:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
What direction are we going? a 3 and out team? We are a Special Teams team. Our kick returner and our punter are give the most snaps.
by holmes213 on Nov 7, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post, it’s been hard to be optimistic, but I think it is at least clear that Mangini knows what he wants. The next step is to draft some really talented players to go along with the disciplined depth guys.
by Roger Dorn on Nov 7, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Non-stop coverage of the team with the best fans in the NFL, the Cleveland Browns.
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Browns Links
Browns News/Information
Pro Football Critics
Official Browns Site
Orange and Brown Blogs
Orange and Brown Report
Cleveland Plain Dealer
Akron Beacon Journal
Browns Communities
The Watercooler
Dawg Talkers
Dawg Bones
The Browns Board
Waiting for Next Year
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
