Ryan for Head Coach
by BringBackKosar on Nov 3, 2009 7:43 PM EST
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Lets be honest, Mangini is probably outta here at the end of the season. I'm not saying he should stay or go, there's arguments either way. I'm just positing that he's probably living on borrowed time.
If we do show him the door, I think the best option to replace him is already on staff. Its time for the Rob Ryan Era.
I mean, you don't have to convince him to come to Cleveland, since he's already here. Hes the only guy on the staff who's actually doing his job well..the defense has played much better this year, and with much more fire, which speaks to his motivational skills. What hes done with Wimbley alone should earn him consideration. Not to mention he'd cost less than the dump truck of money Randy'd have to give Gruden or Cowher et al.
I dunno, I'm just saying. Its worth considering.
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As an interim: yes. In the offseason: no thank you
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 3, 2009 8:54 PM EST reply actions
+1 - We need a proven winner
His main claim to fame is that he is better than Mangini and Daboll. Sort of like being the tallest of the midgets.
I'm a Ryan fan
I love his fire. I would love for him to be the head coach of the Browns if they fire Mangini. Having said that, I don’t think Mangini should be fired as we need continuity.
If Ryan gets any other HC offers though, I’d fire Mangini to keep Ryan here. I love the guy. Fire Daboll, keep Ryan at all costs. My opinion.
"There's nothing that cleanses the soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." Woody Hayes.
Why did you say Mangina?
Really? Do you think it’s funny? Haha, you took our coach’s name and crammed it together with a woman’s privates. Hilarious!
…Are you proud?
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 3, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
To be honest, this consistent knee jerk reaction has almost become as annoying as the original use of the word. Just sayin’
by Simmsinns on Nov 4, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes but I am compelled to do it.
I’m extremely OCD.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2009 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
Dudeducation:
The mangina joke is funny not because it’s a pairing of Mangini and vagina.
It’s funny because of what a mangina is.
Right, I understand that. But even dude jokes get old.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2009 8:23 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry, this is just a serious blog and that word really gets on our nerves now.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 3, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
I apololgize. Admittedly a very weak first ever post. Frustrating times. I’m glad to have found a place to vent, and will try to keep it on the level.
I may not know much, but much knows s*** about me
by Brown's Jays on Nov 3, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
Fear not. Personally any form of change in Mangini’s name for the purposes of running him down annoys the piss out of me, but that’s more to do with the fact that such changes are usually implented by:
1) Jets fans
2) Cleveland Plain Dealer maniacs.
I’ve seen some fans (that defend Mangini after 8 games) referred to as Mangini “apologists,” That scares the hell out of me as it makes me wonder how loyalty can go after 8 games and also how we came to be living in a time when free defense of your coach can be so badly abused.
I’m halfway convinced these “fans” reckon Mangini keeps a drawer-full of dead baby dwarves at home or otherwise has some hateful factor attached.
by Terrible Terry Tate on Nov 3, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
mangini
mangina mangina mangina…he is am emotionless puss…the only time i saw the guy smile is when we beat the bills 6-3……..
You know, we don’t take kindly to Manginaists around here. In fact, a lot of us tune out everything you say after that low grade schoolyard taunt. Just so you know….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 10, 2009 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
Wow. Magina and emotionless puss? This is a flagged comment waiting to happen.
And why are you so concerned about Mangini smiling?
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 10, 2009 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
You forgot to answer the question. Is Ryan the answer?
I may not know much, but much knows s*** about me
Nope Ryan is not the answer.If Mangini is fired we need a man that has been in it all from rebuilding to winning.No more well maybe they would work.Fire is just a part of the job not all of it
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 3, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Not for me thanks
I love his fire. I love his long hair and beard combo. I love his paunch.
But he’s a defensive coordinator. Everyone is going nuts since the GM “release” and some crazy-ass talk has consequently emerged. I rank Ryan for HC rumours as up there with Cowher for any sort of role with Cleveland rumours. Highly unlikely. Though I could be wrong. Mangini set up our post season for next year. Personally I’d like to see him follow through on it and I don’t think a well-established name getting us 6/7 wins this season would have been any better for the franchise in the long run.
by Terrible Terry Tate on Nov 3, 2009 11:30 PM EST reply actions
set up????
for what more jets players…….will someone tell manginny that there are other teams he can trade with…..Josh Cribbs is my favorite player and maybe one of the top 5 most exciting Cleveland Player ever, but i could say see ya to him for a guy like Kevin Kolb.. We need an offensive leader,
I love Ryan more every week, but I’d rather see him keep his focus on the defense regardless of what happens or doesn’t happen at the top of the pyramid.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 3, 2009 11:51 PM EST reply actions
Agreed but that’s the biggest fan concern because if the coach goes, the coordinators likely follow. So while in Daboll’s case that would be pennies from heaven as he seems to call plays like a certified chump, in Ryan’s case it would be a major loss. I reckon the head coach rumours for him are based solely on this, a desire of the fan-base not to lose him.
The whole jawing with Cutler thing was taken 50.50 by the media and you also have to consider that if the Bears had converted on 4th down there’s no way Ryan’s stock would be as high.
Add that and take away early commentator praise for his schemes in the Bears game and I bet people would be raggin on him for the losses against the Vikings and Denver.
by Terrible Terry Tate on Nov 4, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
Of course you’re right. If Mangini goes everyone most likely goes with him. Ryan as HC would seem destined to be entertaining, but really productive? A big question mark.
The ideal outcome I imagine right now is a solid and involved GM hiring, Carl Smith quietly taking over more and more offensive responsibilities from Daboll, and Ryan staying right where he is, continuing to work on his defense and hopefully being teamed with a Cleveland offense that doesn’t wear out his players so much. (Not hoping for much, am I.)
I loved those words with Cutler myself. Professional, probably not, but the passion was contagious.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 4, 2009 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
What would it take for Mangini to keep his job? In my oppinion he would have to win more games than Romeo did last year. Not a hard thing to do. It is doable to atleast tie the 2008 4-12 record, with Detriot, KC, and Oakland on the way.
I believe that the $11 million dollar scandal is over and Quinn will be starting. he has time with the bye week to get hooked up with his receivers and may do better than the first 2.5 games (or maybe not). But Mangina (did it for you SB, I hate it too) does have 11 draft picks and i would like to see what he does with them. I don’t like him as the Browns coach, but i am intrigued to see what direction he will go.
If Mangini were to be fired at the end of the season then yes; I think Ryan should be interviewed as a serious candidate. Why not? He certainly has the qualifications to be seriously considered as an option.
That being said, there would probably be a better option.
There seems to be a general consensus that the defense is much improved this year over last, but I don’t understand why everyone thinks this. The two main reasons argued above are a) they play with much more fire and b) more pressure on the opposing QB. I won’t argue with either of these points, because I think they are right on.
However, I’ve looked at every defensive statistic (pts/g, yds/g, rush yds/g, pass yds/g, int, ff, and sacks) from last year to this, and the Browns are worse in every single category this year. The one exception is sacks (30th last year, 18th this year); but this is offset by the incredible decrease in interceptions (2nd last year, 30th this year).
Some have argued that the defense is so bad because the offense is terrible (defense is always on the field). And I agree with this to some extent – and it has been more true in some games (vs MIN, DEN) than others. But if you compare the defense’s overall numbers by half, it doesn’t support this argument. The defense is allowing slightly more points in the first half than second half (108 vs 98) and slightly less yards in the first half than second half (1522 vs 1634). In other words, the defense is playing equally poorly in both the first and second half.
I’m not meaning to poo poo on the party here. I just think we need to be careful before we canonize Rob Ryan as the next head coach.
I think rather than compare first half to second half stats of this year is going to give a true picture of the ability of the defense because the offense is playing horrible in both halves. It’s not just a matter of the defense wearing down, but of just being on the field more often. Even with a top-notch defense, the more often they are trotted out in a game, the better the odds are that eventually the opposing offense will find a way to gain yards.
bbstird… I was about to write nearly the exact post. Everyone is ready to fire Daboll while they are considering making Ryan the head coach. This team is abysmal on both offense and defense. I’ve already commented on the “defense on the field too much theory”. Would we be saying the same thing if we were controlling the clock more about the offense. Would we say the offense is tired if we controlled the ball 38 minutes a game? I could go back and see how much time of possession correlates with bad defenses, that might be interesting. But I’m just not ready to give a guy the HC position who has the team at the bottom of the NFL in almost every defensive stat just because he drops the F-bomb on the sidelines. As an interim, maybe. There are just too many good x-head coaches out there. I say he is fine where he is.
Brownsyup
i can tell that either a) you never played football or b) you only played offense or defense, not both. Defense is much, much more tiring than offense. for instance, once a pass is thrown, the offensive lineman’s job is done, he can just take the rest of the play off. a defensive lineman is expected to chase down the receiver, resulting in an extra wind sprint. add two or three of those plays in a row, and the defense is mighty tired, and they need a break. if they don’t get that break, they’re going to be just as tired when they get back on the field.
I can’t believe i’m saying this, but stats are useless here. i think its obvious simply by watching that our defense is making progress. we don’t have the talent we need, there have been injuries to important players, and people are still learning the system, all of those things contribute to poor statistics, but you see the potential of what this defense can become under rob ryan.
Lie. An offensive lineman still as to chase down the play within a reasonable amount of time. Nobody’s job is physically easy during a play.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2009 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
which isn’t to say it was easy, but there’s a reason nobody ever talks about an offense tiring out.
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
sorry for all the replies, but i don’t think i’m articulating my point well.
first off, i didn’t mention being all-conference in order to say i’m awesome, although i now realize it sounds that way, just to point out that i wasn’t some lazy backup and thats why i never got tired. second, as an offensive lineman you do have to run after the play, but thats just it: you’re running, not sprinting. on defense you have to find the ball, quickly change direction, sprint after the ball, and avoid other blockers on your way. then when you get there you have to struggle to take the ball carrier down, if they aren’t down already. An offensive lineman can just jog up to wherever the play stopped.
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the post(s) NTN. Nice to hear about this from someone with some substantial experience on a field.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 5, 2009 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
Try being a wide-receiver and sprinting deep route after deep route or having blocking assignments downfield every play. There are aspects of defense that might be more tiring but there are also aspects of offense that are tiring. And this doesn’t take into account subs and rotations that happen on most plays in the pro game.
So the point you are making is that defense is more tiring than offense and that would imply that defense has to be on the field less than offense or they can’t play well? How much?
Brownsyup
I’m not saying offense isn’t tiring too, but that cornerback is using more energy to cover that wide out. when that receiver makes a cut he knows where he is going, the corner doesn’t. he has to make an even quicker cut and then catch up to the WR.
I’m a little puzzled as to why we’re having this argument, i thought it was common knowledge that defense is more tiring. Again, have you ever heard someone say “that offense looks like they’re getting tired out there?”
Right. I’ve never heard a single coach, player, or announcer speak of the offense tiring while that is always mentioned when the defense is on the field for a long time.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 5, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t know how you can say stats are useless here. Football is a results oriented game – and the results have been miserable for offense and defense. What is your evidence the defense is better this year, other than they just look better? They don’t look better to me: Very few forced turnovers and tons of points and yards allowed.
Even a very good defense can’t be expected to produce a three-and-out every time, thus they will at times give up yards, some of which will result in points. The more often they are on the field, the more likely the odds they will give up yards and points. The odds of giving up those yards and points are progressively greater for good, average, and below average defenses, and the situation is exacerbated when your own offense keeps failing to string more than 4-5 plays together.
I wouldn’t say that the Browns have become even a good defense yet. Perhaps average. But you can’t look at the points and yards allowed per game in a vacuum. The defensive effort was played within a certain context and must be looked at within that context. It would be like the Browns opponents crowing about their tremendous defensive effort while ignoring that their stats are inflated because they went up against the shoddy Browns offense.
my point is i see progress. progress doesn’t always show up in statistics.
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Please explain what you mean by progress, though. I see a defense that is aggressive but largely ineffective.
I think you have characterize defense differently than offense. Defense has to be good in many different areas to be effective (i.e. prevent the other team from scoring). It is more easily described by envisioning a castle. I can have a deep moat and five foot thick walls that are 100 feet high but if I leave the drawbridge down, I’m dead meat. So if your defense is harassing/sacking the QB and stopping the run but allowing deep passing plays, you can point to the elements that are good and recognize them as improvements but you aren’t going to win a lot of games.
The offense, on the other hand, has to find the weakness in the defense. If the drawbridge is down, you don’t storm the walls, you rush that bridge. The offense/defense difference is present in other sports but is even more pronounced in football as the transitions between the two are so pronounced.
Bringing this home, the problem I see is that statistically the Browns defense is bad on a broad front. When I watch them there are moments of brilliance but overall they are giving up too many big plays and are, therefore, not effective.
Brownsyup
exactly. normally they’re average to good, but once in a while they will give up a big play or two. to me thats progress. that would be like the offense driving down to the five every time and then turning the ball over or kicking a field goal. they wouldn’t score any more points than they do now, but that would certainly be progress.
Well I’ll agree that aspects of the defense are better. I think they are good against the run and in putting pressure on/sacking opposing QBs. But the passing defense is a shambles. I don’t think I’ve seen receivers more open. I think it is a combination of not having guys that can match up one-on-one, not being in the right place, and not working well together. Two of those three aspects point to coaching. Do you think the Browns have made progress on pass defense? If not, do you think that it is completely because of the players we have?
Brownsyup
this is an analysis i can get behind. I do not think they have made much progress on pass defense, and i think i lot of it (not all) can be blamed on the players. We only have one nfl corner on our team, abe elam is no coverage master, and pool is wildly inconsistent. that said, i’m sure some play calling or scheming could be improved in this area. the most important thing is to stop the run though, so my guess is thats where most of the focus has been this year.
I would consider the dl as part of the passing defense and they are a sack away from last year’s total. Granted the coverage/tackling by the secondary is horrible, but the entire passing defense isn’t horrible.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
I would consider the dl as part of the passing defense and they are a sack away from last year’s total. Granted the coverage/tackling by the secondary is horrible, but the entire passing defense isn’t horrible.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
Maybe I can do a “how the Browns defense is better” post. it might require me to look at last year’s film, though, and I don’t know if I have time for that.
We are giving up plays now because of our lack of talent and not our schemes at the very least. You can’t ask Ryan to get out there and play DB, you have to judge his performance by the schemes.
Yes, his job is to put a product on the field that stops the opponent from scoring, gets the ball back to our offense, and scores itself. I think that for the personnel we have, he is doing a good-to-very-good job of that.
It seems like we’ve had more stops on 3rd or 4th and short this year vs the rest of the entire history of the new Browns combined. Our sack numbers are up. Ryan is showing signs of putting players in a position to do what they do best (Wimbley, Williams). The looks we are giving are confusing (with the exception of the one play against GB). Ryan is doing a good job.
We need better players to win, but I think our defense is already better than last years’, regardless of what the stats say.
I’d like to see that. It would be interesting to see how specifics might show the defense better even though the statistics show otherwise. The thing I’m wondering is that if the aggressive play at the line (which is paying off in sacks, QB harassment and stopping on 3rd and short) is giving up big plays.
Brownsyup
I tend to agree with you that D takes more out of a player than O—and in most sports, not just football—but you gotta keep hustling as an OL. At least jog down the field in hopes that you can make a block.
That’s one of the things I liked most about Mack’s college film; you see him blocking until the whistle, often away from the ball.
Ryan would not make a good head coach. We don’t need another unproven coach! Why can’t we just let the guy continue what he is doing and not overload him with running the entire team? It would be ridiculous to upgrade him to HC after one season. Do we really need yet another coach that is just “shooting frrm the hip” and trying to figure things out as he goes.
We need someone that has gone through it all…from rebuilding to championship! Not just throw someone in there who is starting to instill a new mentality in a defense. He can’t fully engage the defense and keep shaping them if he has to undertake the role as head coach, too. Let’s be happy with the positives and actually try to hold on to them and not try to shift things around! Get a new, PROVEN HC and a PROVEN GM. No more of this…“well he might be able to do it” or “well he coached under Belichick so he should be good”! If you can’t prove that you can win, then don’t bother applying for the job!
I think it has been said before on this site… Belichick was once a “well, he might be able to do it.” Along with Cowher, Shannahan, and any other proven HC you might go after. If memory serves (this is me reaching back to beyond my football memory, so bear with me), Belichick was once a “well, he might be able to do it” in the Browns system. How did he end up not in the Browns system? Did the fans run him out of town, too?
Fact is, even if you turn the team over to a HC with 5 rings or something crazy like that, our players are just not at the level needed to be a winning team. I doubt there’s a head coach out there that can take what we have in Cleveland and do a better job than Mangini. It’s been said on this site before, the fact that we aren’t expected to win right now makes Cleveland the perfect place for a rising HC.
IF Mangini is fired, first off, I think it would be a mistake. Give him time and a chance. But if he is fired, I think someone else needs to come in as HC that will keep Ryan around. I like what he’s doing on D, and I’ll agree with whoever else said that if he was the HC he couldn’t focus as much on the D.
Good post.
Aside: Belichick was still coach when Modell moved the team. He was replaced in Baltimore by Ted Marchibroda.
Ah, thanks :-) I’m not exactly old enough to have been interested in the Browns before they moved to Baltimore. They moved in ‘99? I would’ve been 9 years old then. If memory serves Butch Davis was the head coach and Tim Couch had just been drafted when I became a fan (I wonder what it’s like to experience a winning team? :-p).
You Really Have To Look Closely...
To see any improvement on this defense.
You can blame lack of talent, or the fact that the offense can’t stay on the field for more than 3 plays at a time…
But I see no improvement on this team. From tackling, to coverages to getting worn out – this defense is not an illusion – it stinks.
Mind you, it also stunk last season, so the blame isn’t with Ryan. I just haven’t seen anything from hi other than “fire” to make me believe that he’s Head Coaching material.
I think his strong Knowledge of defense and the team
and having the ability to motivate will be beneficial for you guys if you decide to promote him to Head coach.
R.I.P. Tony Fein
May God watch over you wherever you are now and may you be in a better place. We will never forget you!
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