Behind the Browns debacle: Kokinis lost power struggle with Mangini
What a long strange trip it's been.
over 2 years ago
Villeslgr
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I need to get something off my chest.
This is the reason why the Browns are a joke right now. I have to read about the Browns front office having people choosing sides? What is this, MTV Road Rules/Real World challenge? Does this not blow anyone elses mind? No wonder we keep getting our asses kicked. Our front office is more interested in finding out who has the latest office gossip and who is going to side with whom instead of developing any sort of organizational plan for this joke of a franchise. Right now, I am jealous of the Raiders. Sweet Jesus help me now.
Where have we seen this before? We heard the rumors that Romeo and Savage did not see eye-to-eye. That was the reason for this asinine arrangement of letting a coach choosing his GM was to avoid this EXACT situation. Kokinis was Mangini’s dude. Hand picked. They can’t get along? How the hell is that possible? Was Kokinis that incompetent? Is Mangini that big of a douche? And more importantly, if the relationship was so toxic, why not fire them both? After all of this, who in the world is going to want in come in and work with Mangini?
(Takes a deep breath) Thank you all very much for allowing me to vent about this. I hope and pray that one day this franchise will right the ship and become a model NFL franchise. As always, Go Browns.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 6, 2009 1:23 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I’m beginning to lean towards it being Mangini. For some reason I feel like he thought he could bring in Kokinis and because they were friends he would go along with whatever he wanted. Kokinis, I feel came in expecting to actually do a job and have the responsibilities of his title and soon found out that was not going to be the case. This led him to neglect the duties he wasn’t allowed to do.
As far as choosing sides, I think people within the organization don’t want to lose their jobs and they assumed that Mangini would be the one left standing out of him and Kokinis and they choose their allegiances accordingly. To me if this is the case it reflects poorly on Lerner for being unaware of what was going on within his organization. Hopefully he has realized he has to pay more attention and this will lead to future success for the organization.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
The conversation was had in another thread about which organization was the biggest joke, with people wanting to put Cincy and Detroit ahead of Cleveland.
At this point today, Cleveland’s giving Oakland a good run for its money as king.
You are reading my signature.
In my opinion, Cincy’s organization used to be miles ahead of us, but I think after this year we have caught and left them in the dust. Oakland is pretty bad now as well but I have to wait to see what happens with Cable before I rank them. Detroit had Millen with I think completely screwed their ranking, it will be interesting to see if they can recover from that.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
I don’t know. Cincy has had a good start of this season, but there are still plenty of Bengals fans convinced that as long as Mike Brown is making every decision for that team, any success they have will not be sustainable.
One thing is clear- dysfunction can arise or disappear very quickly in the NFL.
I agree Mike Brown is less than stellar. However they do seem to get enough talent in there that they can be competitive every few years. Not great, but completely dysfunctional.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
My favorite stat to use in Cincinnati:
Browns winning seasons since 96: 2 for 10
Bengals winning seasons since 96: 1 for 13
I guess but the Bengals also had a bunch of .500 seasons, while since coming back we have been last in the division every year except three.
"This season has been everything most of us feared it would be[.]"
Mike Rutherford, Card Chronicle
http://www.cardchronicle.com/
So the Bengals are stuck in suckiness0mediocrity and good once every 10 years. We suck really bad, but are good once every 5 years.
It is pretty amazing that the Kokinis-Mangini relationship fell apart so quickly and so drastically. Was Kokinis that incompetent? It is almost obvious that he was. Is Mangini that big of a douche? Yup. Why not fire them both? Give Lerner time, I really wouldn’t shocked if he did just that after this season. Who will come in and work with Mangini? The thing I take away from this is that Mangini is going to have to work under a strong President of football operations or GM figure. If he doesn’t, Mangini will be shown the door or will quit.
If you read the article, I find it hard to conclude anything “obvious” about Kokinis’ competence. Given his resume, it’s actually obvious he’s not.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
But its obvious he had no ability to have any serious input in the major decisions regarding personnel. It was incompetent to get anything done. Maybe that’s because Mangini overruled him or had more allies in the organization. Maybe the better word is impotent. Regardless, a huge part of being a GM is communication with your coach and the ability to execute moves to better the team. It’s clear that Kokinis failed on both of these fronts.
What a terrible article. Just a bunch of block quotes from a league source who didn’t seem to know anything more that your average fan.
I agree. It is grist for the rumor mill. The “league source” doesn’t seem to have any real information, just opinions about what might be going on. I’d say Kokinis has a buddy in the league office that is going to help him with his case to get his money.
Having said that I can’t disagree with the idea that the Browns organization is in chaos. I’ve been saying that if the Browns don’t improve during the remainder of the season (during which they play some pretty bad teams), coach Mangini is gone. Now I’m starting to think that he is already a lame duck. The Kokinis firing only makes sense if you are making room for a new GM in the immediate future; that doesn’t seem to be happening. Lerner did not have a round in the chamber. He isn’t even at the checkout stand at Walmart with a box of wad cutters. It seems more like he is treading water next to the Titanic hoping that a kind soul in a crowded lifeboat will throw him a line.
Brownsyup
It does seem like chaos now. I really want this new President/GM person to be put in place. Hopefully they will have the ability to restore some order.
Right.
How can we bring in any GM and force Mangini on him. If we bring in anyone with a name, they will want to clean house and bring in their own coach.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 6, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Very possible.
I’m sure Lerner will want to give the ultimate control to the new President, who can hire a new GM, act as a GM himself, or continue to let Mangini act like his own GM (which I’m not totally against). As soon as this happens, if there is any tact to Lerner and the new guy, the ball will be in Mangini’s court.
Yeah, my problem with the article is that it’s obviously coming from someone who knows Kokinis well, and you’d expect the tone of his comments to be fairly biased in his favor.
You are reading my signature.
I completely disagree. It’s full of new information, and the quotes are about specific organizational structure, not “he’s a good guy, he didn’t deserve this.”
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
Peter King has Lerner’s “side” of the story.
His source says there is no way the team brings Quinn back in 2010.
That’s hilarious. With the organization as in flux as it is, it would seem to me that nothing is certain about 2010.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 6, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
Dude. We’ll probably be renamed the Manginis in 2010.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 6, 2009 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
it would seem to me that nothing is certain about 2010.
Nothing other than the fact that we won’t be very good (barring any miracles).
Sadly, I’d have to agree that this might be the one predictable aspect of the 2010 team.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 7, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
Can we please just sort ANYTHING out?
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 7, 2009 12:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And by the way, don’t you just hate when people say “rec” but don’t actually do it? Fear not, BQIB, I actually recc’ed you.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
Also, by the way, don’t you just hate when people call other people by the wrong name? Fear not, TRSS, I actually called you the right name.
; ]
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 7, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
i used to be on the fence about Mangini…but the more I see of this unfortunately the more it seems like he really just needs to go. This is just a debacle of the first order. I never thought we would overtake the Raiders in front office shenanigans. Im afraid he’s going to do more damage before his time is up…if that’s possible. And with next year’s draft coming up—he certainly can.
I would love to have to eat crow about this.
http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/come_on_cavs.mp3
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