Winslow Traded for Undisclosed Draft Picks
This is a breaking story and there isn't much information.
Adam Schefter is saying Winslow has been traded to the Buccaneers for draft picks. Early speculation is a 2 and 5 or 3 and 6. Obviously, this post will be updated as news breaks. If any of you have updates, please provide them in the comments.
UPDATED: Quote from NFL.com story from George Kokinis:
"The Cleveland Browns thank Kellen for his contributions to this organization over the past five years," Browns general manager George Kokinis said in a statement. "We appreciate his passion for the game and wish him success in Tampa Bay. The draft picks we have obtained through this deal will give us greater flexibility as we look to infuse more talent and create competition and depth on this football team."
about 1 year ago
NickFantana
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i’m pretty impressed at your ability to trump your most recent hilarious and ridiculous comment with even more hilarious and ridiculous comments. maybe sit the next few plays out.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 27, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
this was meant as a reply to raven…sorry RD
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 27, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
rumor is you guys
are getting a 2nd and 5th round pick… What are your thoughts on the trade and specifically Kellen Winslow the man and player? I appreciate any insight you can provide. I’ll look to report it back to Bucs fans at Buc ’Em
thanks, hopefully its a 3rd and 5th
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With JScott on this...
…really interested to hear what Browns’ fans think of this deal. We aren’t completely sure on what you guys got in return just yet, but interested in hearing what you think of Winslow.
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by The Bull Gator on Feb 27, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
well as for me
im not sold on it yet. i’ll have to see what we get in return as far as picks and even then I wont be happy until draft weekend to really see who we got in exchange for winslow.
im not impressed with your performance
Great point...
…draft picks are only good if you do something good with them.
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by The Bull Gator on Feb 27, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
And great players are only great if they are on the field.
That’s not meant as a slight against you – we really have little positive to report on Winslow beyond the 2007 season. He was incredible in 2007, a worthy Pro Bowler. Last season – he was not worth much.
Personally, I’m glad the Browns traded him for the best offer. A change of scenery might help him, but there were too many concerns to stay with the Browns:
- discipline on the field: i.e., avoiding unsportsmanlike penalties and running the right routes
- discipline in the locker room: i.e., he demands the spotlight
- acceptance of his contract: i.e., he is 2 or 3 consecutive games away from demanding a contract extension – who knows?
I don’t know how that young coach in Tampa will be able to handle the kid – as a Bucs fan I would be worried…
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As a Bucs fan...
…I am worried.
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by The Bull Gator on Feb 27, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Reading many of the posts here and on other Forums – Browns fans are similarly dismayed. (As some are comparing the Winslow trade to the Rodgers trade) you can be confident that Winslow will provide you with some great performances. But like Rodgers and his complaining this week, be prepared for some headaches.
It seems he will be able to get out on the field without injuries at the start of 2009, but he is always playing through shoulder and knee pain. I think the best you can hope for is a healthy Winslow who will make it to the Pro Bowl… and then holdout for a big-money contract – remember, this guy is represented by Drew Rosenhaus. AND, the only reason he did not make a huge stink after 2007 is because Phil Savage bent over backwards giving him a new contract when he destroyed his knee doing wheelies.
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Winslow could have been great. He may still be very good, but injuries (both football and non-football) have definitely taken their toll. He can’t block and the Browns offense seemed to work a bit better (who would know?) when Winslow wasn’t playing last season. He plays the game passionately with his heart on his sleeve. This is a double edged sword (see “soldier, I’m a M*******ING” as well as a good chunk of sportsmanship penalties deserved or based on reputation).
All that said, everything about Winslow’s comments and general demeanor last year screamed “holdout”, so I’m not too surprised about him getting dealt. We’ll see what the picks turn up.
I’m with painaxl on this one. I think we have overvalued Winslow for sometime here. He has great hands (possibly the best), but that’s about it. Injuries have slowed him down to the point that he can’t get much seperation on his routes; he stirs up trouble on and off the field; he is an awful run blocker.
I had high hopes for him here, but when I look back at what he produced and what he is capable of going forward, I’m happy with this deal if it really earned us a 2nd rounder and another pick.
this is a great point. we WAY overvalue winslow in cleveland…in part b/c of the lack of outstanding performers at other positions, and in part b/c we love the tough guy who battles through adversity.
i’d argue that 2007 will be the best season winslow ever has. he may go back to the pro bowl (less competition at TE in the NFC), and i hope he does, but ‘07 was a magical year for him. his body is already breaking down, and that’s not likely to get better. i respect the hell out of the guy for being as tough and competitive as he is, but getting 2 picks (possibly 2 first day picks) for him is a win.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 27, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
He will play his ass off. He is a great reciever and is a stud in the red zone. He has the best hands that I have probably ever seen on a TE. He was the emotional leader of the offense.
If he can stay healthy, the Bucs got a steal.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 27, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Seconded on the great hands. Dude can catch, I’ll say that.
The emotional leader thing, I don’t know. He was emotional, that’s true, it’s a big part of his game. I don’t have the games in front of me to back it up, but I remember feeling that in those games when he did play last year, the offense seemed to be trying to placate him by forcing passes in his direction to avoid having him blow out about he’s left out. Of course, he wasn’t always utilized correctly by coaches in his time hear, but I seem to remember “feeling” the offense walking on eggshells.
Then again, this could be all blurred memories. Stats would help and I don’t have any.
Passes were forced in his direction because they were better off there than in the direction of Syndric Steptoe. Seriously, the wide receivers for the Browns sucked so badly last year, why not chuck it in the direction of the one guy who will catch the ball if at all possible?
by woodsmeister on Feb 27, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
There are two reasons we traded Winslow
1. Injury history: He missed most of his first two seasons with the team and has the knees of a guy in his late 30s. He only played 10 out of 16 games last year and really the only memorable game for him was against Denver, Quinn’s first game at QB. I do think we misused him
2. Attitude: It’s pretty clear Mangini isn’t going to tolerate players who constantly complain to the press. A lot of fans like Winslow’s passion, but sometimes it came across to me as just plain dumb. He had hinted he wanted a new contract, but it never made sense for us to give him a new one after he screwed the org over by riding the motocicleta.
The combination of these two makes it clear why he is gone. It sounds like you are giving him a new contract. In order for this to be successful for the Bucs you need to hope that
a. he is happy with his new contract which will keep him quiet
b. he stays healthy
c. the coaches use him properly
Dorn’s right on all fronts. The Browns misused him, he misused the Browns, there was the whole issue last year about the “undisclosed illness” which turned into an unfunny Three’s Company storyline that left no one satisfied. IF he’s healthy/wants to play/gets his touches/feels loved he’s a star, no doubt about it. The Browns never could seem to put all those IF’s together, maybe Tampa will.
If you’re a Bucs fan, just remember that his “passion for the game,” which will no doubt be mentioned often about this acquisition (and rightfully so), can (and did) cause some problems.
thanks for the info
Thanks for the info fellas, we greatly appreciate it… we’ll let you know what picks are yours as soon as we hear it!!!
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Dorn. You are talking about Mangini not wanting players with attitude. Is BE the next to go this off season? It is a contract year for him!
by drunkrooster on Feb 27, 2009 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
I think he stays for two reasons. One, trading him now would be a major sell low, which I don’t think is the case with Winslow. Second, I think it makes sense to franchise him next year even though he’s a free agent
I hope you are right! Hoprfully he can get his head right and catch the ball this year!
by drunkrooster on Feb 28, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
Kellen will occasionally say something dumb to the media. He has not been anywhere close to as bad as he used to be (no “I’m a soldier” moments) since his accident. He has been an extremely passionate player who plays hard every down and through pain every second he is on the field.
Speaking of that pain, this guy’s knee is hanging on by a thread. He has had a whole bunch of surgeries on it, and it hurts him constantly. I don’t know if he has missed a game due to the knee due to a flare up since he has been back. He has had multiple staph infections in the knee, microfracture surgery, and a whole bunch of scopes.
In the short term, there is no question you guys are getting a heckuva player. Winslow’s catching radius borders on unreal. He catches the ball away from his body, has impeccably strong hands, will go up and get the ball, and isn’t afraid of getting hit. He is smart, runs good routes and knows how to use his big frame. He will get called for offensive pass interference often, and not all of the calls will be legitimate (he just has a rep for pushing off). He is nowhere close to as fast as he should be (because of the knee) but is still faster than at least 85% of TEs in the league IMHO. He is still fluid and agile and has good quickness for a 250lb guy. He isn’t going to pancake DEs, but he will at least get in the way when asked to block. He is better blocking in space than he is from a 3 point stance.
Really, for you guys the value of this deal depends on how soon he has to retire or how soon he slows down because of that knee. As a Browns fan, I am pretty baffled that we would trade him for a 2nd and anything lower than a 3rd. If there are incentives for the 2nd pick that could get us a 2nd or 3rd next year, I will be lukewarm on this trade, otherwise I feel like we got ripped off. If he has to sit out a bunch of the games next year because of injuries, I might reconsider.
by rufio on Feb 27, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Can someone please explain to me how subtracting our best playmaker on offense will “infuse more talent” on this offense? And thanks to Romeo’s ability to play young players, we still have no idea what kind of player Martin Rucker is.
A position of strength on this roster just became a huge question mark for the (hopefully) the 50th and 147th picks in the draft.
Out of curiosity
Why do we not know what picks the Browns get? Why would that be secret? Are they still haggling that? Otherwise it makes no sense to not release that information.
Thoughtful discussion with a sense of history
From what I have read and heard…it’s a 2nd this year and a conditional next year. Seems like at lowest the conditional is a 5th next year and could become a 2nd based on Winslow reaching performance incentives
Kokinis’s statement implies the Browns are getting multiple picks this year, but your read sounds more “reasonable” for Winslow.
I imagine both sides want to keep the details quiet until final, for fear of hurting other deals should Winslow fail the physical/the deal is not consummated.
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what we've heard thus far:
Rotoworld is reporting the picks may be a 2009 2nd Round Pick and a 2010 5th Round Pick.
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I’m so pissed. I understand the trade in theory, but this smells an awful lot like the Shaun Rogers trade in reverse.
Carmona for Cy Young 2009
Hey — I’ve been driving that wagon for two months!! You can ride shotgun.
Really, with this trade the Browns are going to need guys who can catch the ball. Pick Crabtree and get some LB’s in the second round.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 27, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
My apologies Brad. I’m more than willing to man the radio and elicit horn honks from truckers.
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I was speed off the defensive edge really badly.
by JulioBernazard on Feb 27, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
ugh. It’s hard for me to understand how your expect to compete when you trade your best player at a low point in his value. Whatever.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.
If that “best player” can’t stay on the field, is he really the best payer?
by JulioBernazard on Feb 27, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
I am not arguing that the team was good. But I see this as taking two steps back to get two draft picks that may or may not turn into good football players.
When it was 3rd and 6 last year who did you want our QB to throw the ball to? I wanted it going to K2.
I could understand this trade if the Browns were rebuilding, but Mankok has not said anything about that. I was under the impression that the Browns were going to try and win this year not build towards 2010-11.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 27, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
if the best deal that we could get for our best player/playmaker was 2 non-first-round picks, then holy hell are we the worst franchise in the history of sports. no one needs to say anything about rebuilding if this is the best haul we can get for our best player, b/c it would be a scientific fact.
in ’07, i wanted the ball to go to Joe J on 3rd and 6…does that mean he was our best player (on a team w/ 6 pro bowlers)?
winslow had the best hands on the team, he was probably the toughest guy on the team, he played through more injuries than anyone on the team, and i’d argue that he was the most competitive on the team. he was not the best football player on the team, though. not by a wide stretch.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 27, 2009 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Kellen Winslow made more plays for the Browns last year then the rest of this offense combined. I realize that is a very sad statement about this team, but it is true.
The thing that really pisses me off, that this to me is a sign that Mankok wants to rebuild this team. I am sick and tired of rebuilding. This team does not need rebuilding. Trading a Pro Bowl TE for two picks is a team that is starting over would do.
I do like JJ but I would much rather have the ball in K2’s hands than his. We can agree to disagree about the good times.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 27, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
i understand the hyperbole of your initial comment is intentional, but the fact of the matter is that winslow just didn’t make that many plays last year. he played in 10 games, had 43 catches and 3 TDs.
i don’t have his drop numbers (they were certainly low), or his splits as to first down catches, 3rd down conversions, etc., but the simple truth is that edwards caught more balls, played in all 16 games and caught as many TDs as winslow.
jamal lewis had 1 more TD and played in all 16 games.
josh cribbs accounted for exactly the same number of TDs as winslow.
these guys were all as important, as impactful, as winslow, if not more. lastly, the trade of one extremely replaceable guy is far from indicative of a full rebuilding effort. although, are you really convinced that the team that we are returning is in need of anything less than massive retooling, if not rebuilding?
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 27, 2009 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
i mention 3 guys whose stats are easily compared to winslow’s…but i made no mention of the impact that guys like thomas and steinbach made on offense. i think it’s an easy argument that each of those guys was more important to the O than winslow (thomas played and started 16 games, steinbach 14).
the brutal reality is that this was one of the worst offenses in football last year. winslow didn’t change that and wasn’t likely to in ’09.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 27, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
Wouldn’t you say most of the offensive weight was on Kellen’s shoulders last year?
I mean, if you were another team and you could have chosen to take away one of the following:
Kellen
Braylon
Jamal
Any other Brown
wouldn’t you have chosen Kellen? Jamal wasn’t running like he used to, and the line wasn’t blocking for him like it should have been. Braylon was likely to get open deep on any one of your corners, but he was just as likely to drop the pass. Steptoe was a joke, Harrison and Cribbs weren’t used enough, Jason Wright, Stallworth, Dinkins, Rucker, and even Heiden didn’t exactly strike fear in the heart of the opposing defense. If I had to choose, I would have allotted an extra defender or two to Winslow before any of those guys. Or I would send them at the QB because our pass pro schemes were terrible (and when you can’t block, no one can catch the ball).
Stats are stats, but he was consistently our best pass catcher, wouldn’t you say?
And how much of that time was AFTER we completely self destructed, were playing with Ken Dorsey at QB and had no chance of winning a game let alone making the playoffs?
I think the bigger picture was that Winslow missed 44 of 80 total games as a Brown. The Browns felt that this was the time to move on.
Hey I loved the guy, I wish all the Browns played with his emotion, bottom line the guy is banged up.
I like the move.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
His games missed is a little skewed. In the last three years he missed 6 games, all last year.
Since he has come back, he has been playing a whole lot more than he hasn’t.
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 28, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Looks like the Bucks picked #50 overall in the 2nd round. So we get 5, 36, and 50. We need three above average starters from these picks. If we got them, in a perfect world what positions would you use them on?
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LB, DB (If we don’t resign Jones) and RB
by Bernie19Kosar on Feb 27, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
i would say some combination of 2 LBs and an OL.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 27, 2009 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Bittersweet. I loved his passion and the ability to catch the ball. But his injuries and somewhat “ME” attitude rubbed wrong at times. I read in the Dealer he played 44 games and missed 36, so in that sense he had to go.
Now the key is to make the picks work.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
slow slot receiver
Great Trade!!! I hope he passes his physical. As a Browns fan, getting a #50 in the 2nd round was a great trade. WinSLOW was nothing more than a slow slot receiver. He had to push off to get open and was called on it all the time.
God Damnit
We love the Ravens, how could our new GM do something like this! They are such a smart franchise and that’s why we take their washed up players and now front office members. I say we bring back Tim Slouch as our QB.
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also, stating the purpose of this username in your profile is not the most intelligent thing for you to do. in other words… par for the course.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
Sell high on a problem guy. I think the problem lies around the health concerns and overall play. Like Andra Davis, his statistics are deceiving. As previously stated, a TE who can’t block is pretty much a slot receiver. Another problem was the contract issues that have developed since he changed agents. Also, wasn’t the offense better with him out of the lineup last year? Rosenhaus is the football version of Scott Boras. Yikes!!! 2 good statistical seasons from a position of depth, why not trade him. I hope he catches 80 passes next year and we get another 2nd round pick. The Mangini house cleaning starts.
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Because he won’t miss Anderson when he’s traded to Tampa Bay? :p
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by Chris Pokorny on Feb 28, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Any good feelings I had for the new management team just went out the window. The most talented player on our team is gone for one decent pick and a mostly useless one. Fantastic.
It’s a hard call. Winslow is largely responsible for the enjoyable 2007 season, and could have a few good seasons left before his body checks out. Or he could be totally wiped as is. Also, Winslow is coming off one great season and one really good season consecutively. If he’s good next year – so what? We’re not competing. We get nothing for him next year as is. IMO, a “killing-old-yeller” type move. That dog was worn out.
I have to disagree. Winslow is fantastically talented, but even when “healthy” now he’s probably only 80% of what he should have been. And I have serious doubts about his viability even over a span of a few more seasons. I think trading him now is a smart move – but a smart move that must be complimented with a good 2nd round pick.
Calm Down..
Winslow was a nice player, but let’s not overvalue receivers here. In my opinion he was a receiver, not a tight end really. I love the guy but it was probably a good move depending on the use of the pick, if we can take a good defender with that pick I am sold. Winslow had one great season in 2007, a solid one in 2006, and a mediocre one last year. As much as I hate to say it his knees were really worrisome to me also, I think he will be ok for Tampa but if he aggravates that knee I’m not sure how many more surgeries he has left. JMHO.
No one is saying we don’t need picks or (good) defenders.
Really, like you say, the question is “if”. A draft pick is nothing more than a gamble on a player. We traded Winslow for a chance to get another good player. In my mind, this trade is only good for us if the chance of getting a really good player with the 51st pick and whatever pick we get next year is better than the chance Winslow’s leg doesn’t seriously slow him down in the next 2 or 3 years. We basically bet that Winslow doesn’t have much left in the tank and that we can make a good 2nd round pick in the first year of a new regime. I wouldn’t take that bet myself.
He was a receiver in the sense that he caught the ball, but other teams still defended him like a TE. They either put a safety on him with help over the top or they put a LB on him with help over the top (unless it was an obvious passing situation: 3rd/long or 2nd and 10+). He could still create matchup problems and gave our offense tons of versatility which was our #1 strength in 2007. Other teams didn’t know how to defend us. Will that change now? I have no idea, but K2 definitely contributed a lot to the offense in 2007(when it was good).
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