Who is in for Cutler?
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 1, 2009 2:48 PM EDT
96 comments
Unless you have been under a rock, you have heard that the Jay Cutler has gotten his wish, the Denver Broncos have decided to trade Cutler.
Not this one.... This one.
It is pretty easy to see who is not in the Jay Cutler derby;
Giants, Eagles, Cowboys, Cardinals, Packers, Falcons, Saints, Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Bengals, Titans, Colts, Texans and the entire AFC West. You can probably add in the Seahawks, who are looking for a future QB and the Dolphins believe that they have already found a QB for the future. You could probably add SanFran, I doubt that Mike Singletary is interested in bringing in Cutler with his no nonsense type of coaching.
That leaves the Jets, Bills, Jags, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Carolina, Detroit, Chicago, Minnesota, Washington and our beloved Browns.
Carolina doesn't have a first round pick this year not to mention they have shown a creepy attachment to Jake Delhomme, even discussing a contract extension with him. Plus even though Julius Peppers is a valuable trading chip, I doubt getting Delhomme back has the Broncos very excited.
Most pundits believe that the Broncos want a QB in return. Not a space filler, but a young talented QB that McDaniels can shape on his own. After all, isn't that what started this all? I doubt that a young QB would be the only asset the Broncos would want in return. Their switch to a 3-4 has the Broncos turning over every rock for help, hence the free agency spree that they have been on. They need some pass rush help, I doubt you need me to tell you that we have none, and an anchor in the middle of the 3-4. The Browns do have something there even though I am VERY RELUCTANT to trade Big Baby. I am sure that the Broncos would love to add as many picks as possible in addition to any players.
So what young QB's in the NFL are for trade? Quinn, Anderson, Matt Leinhart, Kyle Orton, Tyler Thigpen and Jason Campbell. Brady Quinn makes the most sense out of the above. Quinn played under Charlie Weis and has earned his highest praise. This is so important because Josh McDaniels supposedly worships what Charlie Weis says. Quinn started for 4 years and knows the Weis offense backwards and forwards. Pretty much the same offense that McDaniels wants to run in Denver. Other than Quinn who on that list is exciting? Leinhart? He still has more INT's than TD's after 4 years. Thigpen played well for 5 games or so at the end of last year. Jason Campbell has been nothing short of ordinary. The Browns are in a great position. They seem to hold all the cards in this situation. If it comes down to a three way trade, you would think that the Browns would be in on it. After all they have the QB's that Denver needs.
Washington could send Campbell, 13th pick and a third rounder. This would leave the Redskins without a pick until 5th round. Would the Redskins be willing to trade almost their entire draft for Cutler?
Carolina could send Peppers and second (59) and third round (93) picks, yet Denver would be starting Chris Simms as their QB. Not to mention that Denver would have to give Peppers a 100 million.
Minnesota could give first (22) and second (54) rounders plus Sage Rosenfels or Tavaris Jackson. No thanks.
Chicago could go Orton, first (18) and second (49) rounders for Cutler. Would that interest Denver?
The Browns could offer Brady Quinn, first round pick (5) and second (50) for Cutler and the Broncos first rounder. The Broncos could then turn the 5th pick into Raji to be the NT in the 3-4. Denver gets a NT, young QB and a pick for Cutler. Browns add an arm that took a team that took a team that had 8 RB's on the IR, and no defense to a 8-8 record. The Browns could then flip Derek Anderson to the losers of the Cutler race. Jets? Bucs? Lions? Bears? I bet we could get a 2nd rounder for DA.
As I see it, the Browns and the Broncos are locked together here. The Browns pretty much have the right of first refusal for Cutler. What is more valuable for the Browns? If the Browns decide that they would rather have picks instead of Cutler, they become the third wheel in a deal. John Clayton thinks the same (Quick Podcast)
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don banks from si.com says:
3. Cleveland
The Browns aren’t desperate for a quarterback, given they’ve got two starters in Quinn and Anderson. But new head coach Mangini doesn’t seem to be crazy about either one of them, and that makes the Browns a player in the Cutler sweepstakes if they want to be. Moving Quinn, who hasn’t proven anything yet, and disgruntled defensive tackle Shaun Rogers must look pretty appealing to the Browns about now.
Motivation meter: 8.5
i guess that would mean snagging raji at 5, which i’m already in favor of, and then installing cutler as our qb for the next decade. he seems like a headcase, but i think i can live with that. i hesitate to back this, though, simply b/c we need more players, and trading 2 for 1 obviously doesn’t get us to that goal. anyway, this is a very intriguing deal.
by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 1, 2009 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That’s assuming the Browns had a number 5 after winning that kind of bidding war. The Broncos board seems to think they’ll get 2 1st round picks and a defensive starter and extras out of the deal. I think that’s high, but with 10 teams potentially bidding, we could see some absurd deals.
by math_geek on Apr 1, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are crazy if they think they are getting that. Plus McDaniels needs to get a QB. You can’t let a franchise QB leave and not get a QB to replace him.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 1, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no way they actually believe they will get that.
Every other team has the upper hand in this deal because they know Cutler is going to be dealt, and the deadline is probably the end of the first round of the draft. Denver really wants to move him before then if they are going to move him, and every team can just sit back and try to steal the auction, just like they are bidding on Ebay.
by rufio on Apr 1, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no way they actually believe they will get that.
http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/4/1/818098/you-want-jay-cutler-some-ground#comments
Denver really wants to move him before then if they are going to move him, and every team can just sit back and try to steal the auction, just like they are bidding on Ebay.
Denver would be stupid to let that happen. Let’s say there are 8 teams bidding on Cutler. Denver could say that they will give teams a week to submit any offer they want, they won’t publicize any offer made to them, and at the end of that week, they will take the highest offer made. Should handle that problem quite smoothly and game theory suggests they will get very close to actual value that way. It’s not difficult.
Also, look at what the Chargers got for Eli Manning – 2 1sts a 3rd and a 5th. It would appear that the Broncos could get at least that.
by math_geek on Apr 1, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I am another team right now, I am lowballing them like crazy.
2 1sts and a defensive starter and “extras”? That’s ridiculous. I wouldn’t give that up for any player in the league. Denver is throwing out a value that they know is high so they can bring up some of those low-ballers. If you are right and they can still get “actual value” for Cutler even though people are calling him a whiny baby and a player who doesn’t appreciate the game and is money hungry, that’s one thing. But 2 1st rounders and a starter and “extras” is pretty laughable.
A 3rd and a 5th are “extras” and neither is worth as much as what I think of when I think of a “defensive starter”.
by rufio on Apr 1, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Additionally, I think we see all the time on this site how fans don’t propose anything close to fair deals (get rid of Braylon for the entire NYG roster and all of their draft picks, “just” trade down in the draft and get Matthews, Jenkins, Robiskie, and Beanie and we are set for the next 10 years, trade Quinn for Cutler and a swap of picks in the 1st, etc.). The MIle High Report is a well-run blog, but what they think they will/should be getting is probably much different than what will actually happen.
by rufio on Apr 1, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I definitely agree that they were highballing, but I’m not at all convinced that the Browns could get Cutler for Quinn and Rogers alone. And I am aware of the Snyder factor making the entire situation absurd. The man traded a second round pick for Jason Taylor just last year, and that was one of his more sober deals.
by math_geek on Apr 1, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quinn and Rogers for Cutler would not happen, you are right. Denver might need to throw in a first day pick… or two… maybe an extra player. The market for Cutler has got to be terribly low right now.
by DaytonDogg on Apr 1, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it would be absolutely stupid for Denver not to take that deal, and if I were them I would be offering us some mid to low-round picks if I thought I could make it happen.
by rufio on Apr 1, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Note, I was quoting Denver fans, not Denver, for the record.
What Denver is getting, that’s another story.
If I am another team right now, I am lowballing them like crazy.
What exactly is Denver’s threat point anyway? Making Cutler sit the season. The Bengals didn’t trade Chad Johnson, and the Redskins were reportedly offering them 2 1sts (of course, 2 1sts for Ocho and I would have just done it)
What “actual value” for Cutler is is highly debatable. I think the Eli Manning trade is a good place to start, but Cutler is probably worth more than Manning was (or even is). So let’s say 2 1sts and a second or something like that.
by math_geek on Apr 1, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realized that was a link to MHR after posting. My bad.
It is a media circus out here right now. Cutler is the first thing on the news at night.
Denver can let him ride the pine but it will be a major distraction and as a potential suitor I would just hold out till they got sick of it. Benching is not really a big bargaining chip IMHO, and the longer this goes on the more other teams start to question Cutler’s attitude, in my mind.
Maybe you are right and it will take that much to get him. If that’s the case, I don’t want any part of this deal. Really I would only want the Browns to be a part of this deal if they can ship DA and get picks anyway, so hopefully we would get good value and not have to deal with what Cutler’s value should be.
by rufio on Apr 1, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Rufio.
The Broncos have no leverage. If they hold on to him, they have their best player on the bench. How will the veterans on the team handle this? McDaniels is only 32! You think that Brian Dawkins will sit by and watch Chris Simms throw INT’s while Jay Cutler is sitting on the bench?
He has to go, and he has to go now. For Bronco fans wanting 2 first rounders and players, they are going to get a cold glass of water to the face when Denver takes less. Much less. After all Cassel AND Vrabel got a second rounder.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 1, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Cassel deal isnt a fair comparison due to the cap number involved ($14M vs the $1M Cutler’s deal is).
by talonk on Apr 1, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure Cutler is going to get a new deal here in the near future. I would guess after this season.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 1, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
while that is true, that doesn’t really come into play for this trade this year (ie cap hit).
by talonk on Apr 1, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just read that thread…. and while the OP makes some good points, I really don’t think they’ll receive a QB, two high picks, a defensive starter AND some low level picks. That is just way too much to give up (granted Cutler can be a stud).
Let’s say DA pulled this stunt before last season. Does anyone suspect we could have had that kind of a haul for a Pro Bowl QB? Nope, most had said 1st and a 3rd at best.
Now Cutler is worth more IMO, but not 3 times more what DA was worth on the market last year.
If the Broncos are seriously asking for a huge amount, the Browns brass should be on the phone with all the usual suspects and offering DA for less than what Cutler is being offered.
I don’t honestly see a deal where we trade Quinn for Cutler, but I see DA being offered and probably rejected by the Broncos. I also don’t see Rogers being offerend in any deal, but I could see Williams, perhaps.
by talonk on Apr 1, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think DA has been shopped quite a bit. The problem is that teams have never liked him all that much.
Cutler, on the other hand, had been christened the best young quarterback in the NFL
by math_geek on Apr 1, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot to add that teams looking to acquire Cutler will point to his attitude during this whole saga. His perceived “whining” is another bargaining chip that teams looking to get him have.
by rufio on Apr 1, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was nervous about the whole two for one idea but then I looked. How many QBs last year threw for 4,500 yards 25 TD’s and was 25 years old or younger?
Only Cutler. Hell Marino only did that twice in his career! Manning only once. Same goes for Brady. Pretty elite company Cutler is keeping. I am not saying that he will be Marino, but he did light up some scoreboards, and I am sure that everyone here remembers this.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 1, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only are his stats great, but I can tell you on purely non-statistical analysis that he carried that team last year from about 1/3 of the season forward. All the Denver Broncos had was Cutler, Marshall, Eddie Royal. No defense, no running game.
I knew they were going to throw the ball, the other teams knew he was going to throw the ball, and he still almost got them in to the playoffs doing it anyway. His talent is undeniable.
His attitude is the question mark. He has a little bit of that Phillip Rivers-like bastard streak in him. I don’t know if he cares about the history of football or is an especially team-first kind of guy. People longing for the good ol’ days and players won’t be happy with his attitude. He is competitive and firey and he loves to compete, but he rubs some people the wrong way.
by rufio on Apr 1, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he loved to compete so much why is he risking not being able to compete at all?
Rivers yells at opposing fans, pumps his fist, is emotionally attached to the game and leaves it all on the field. He played second fiddle in the Eli Manning draft situation and to Drew Brees in his early career and didn’t blink an eye. Rivers also was faced with a controversial coaching change after a year as a starter. He responded professionally and with another solid year.
Cutler, when faced with the rumor of adversity for the first time, has behaved like a child.
Also, as I mentioned below, I don’t think his stats are all that “great”.
by DaytonDogg on Apr 1, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For Rivers, I was talking about the “atta baby”‘s. That was bastardly. Otherwise, I don’t mind his attitude a whole lot (and certainly wouldn’t if he was wearing Orange and Brown) but I can see how it would rub a lot of people the wrong way. Fans, sure, media, but especially the people who would be pulling the trigger on any sort of deal. Do you think GMs, Coaches, Presidents and owners want this sort of fiasco media field day surrounding them?
He loves to compete, but is pulling all of this crap because he wants to feel wanted, he wants to know that he is “the guy” and the face of a franchise and won’t be moved until he is 32+ years old. He wants to know that when he is putting in all of his hard work and pouring his heart and soul out for a franchise that they won’t part ways with him like its no big deal. He does not trust McDaniels at all.
Fine, his starts aren’t all that great, but his INTs aren’t all that bad either. Thats all I am saying.
by rufio on Apr 1, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok.
I just don’t think its all that comparable. On the field emotion and antics are one thing. Demanding a trade and not respecting your coaches and owners off the field are another. I think you are understating his “attitude question mark”. I mean, the questions he would have to answer to have a team take a chance on him again are:
- Do you really want to play in this league?
- Can you respect your coaches?
- Can you respect your GM/Front Office decisions?
- Can you respect the process of the business of professional sports?
- Can you respect the owner of the team enough to return his calls?
- Are you professional enough to handle potential adversity in the future?
To me, there is nothing he can do that would satisfy these issues enough, that I would be at a point to invest significantly in him. I would not give up more professional players (Quinn), more talented players (Rogers), money, draft picks, or the future of my team in the hands of a “franchise QB” with these issues.
by DaytonDogg on Apr 1, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely, I agree with that and think that its one of the things that will drive his value down.
I meant to compare Rivers when he is having a bad attitude with Cutler when he is having a bad attitude—that they can both do some questionable things, mostly off the field and whose attitude doesn’t rub everyone the right way all the time. Not that they have the same attitude or can believably answer your questions above in any way.
I would not look to deal Quinn to get Cutler. I wouldn’t move Rogers either.
by rufio on Apr 1, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree totally with your conclusion, even if we are getting there a little differently.
by DaytonDogg on Apr 1, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The yards and TDs impress me very little. LIke you mentioned, he had no running game from week to week and a defense that was forcing the team to play from behind or get into shoot outs. It doesn’t happen that often because its a weird set of circumstances. In other words, it says very little abou tthe quality of the QB.
Cutler was mediocre last year when you consider his 18 INTs were only surpassed Favre’s 22, his QB rating was 16th…dead middle among qualifying QBs, same with his completion %. Those 25 TDs came by throwing more passes than anyone except Brees, and it was still bested by QBs from throwing 30-150 less passes like Warner, Rodgers, Manning, Romo, Rivers.
I’m impressed that he only was sacked 11 times in all those drop backs. But if I’m giving up Quinn, much less anything else, I want to see a lot more than that. And that doesn’t even start to get into the biggest reason anyone ANYONE would be a fool to think about acquiring him for more than a mid round pick…
He is a pouting, cranky headcase. He has refused to play. He is making Chad Johnson and T.O. look like model players. Give me a break. Not answering your owner’s calls? Come on. What happens if he turns on our coach or owner or coordinator or GM. Will he quit? Demand a trade? You simply cannot ignore this, especially from your QB. And I’m the guy that thinks QBs are vastly overrated generally.
by DaytonDogg on Apr 1, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Doesn’t your argument downplaying the TDs and yards contradict itself when you play up the INTs? Don’t the positive stats have to mean as much as the negative ones?
by rufio on Apr 1, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, that needs to be factored in. But given all those extra passes, in comparison to coming in 2nd in INTs, he was only, what, sixth in TDs?
It has to be looked at as a complete package. 25 TDs is nice, but not as nice when combined with 18 INTs. This is also why I mentioned QB Rating and Completion %- rate stats. In the end, he looks very mediocre among NFL starters. Sure he is young and has had prolific seasons. But I think the claims of greatness are a little overstated. Put it this way: D.A. had 27 TDs and 3800 Yds in his first full season as a starter, but we all know how hollow those numbers can be. Without completion percentage and QB rating and INT numbers, that looks like an all-pro. When you consider the entire picture, however, you realize he was just a guy with a strong arm, good offense, playing bad defenses and dropped back a lot more than most QBs need to.
by DaytonDogg on Apr 1, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know how a completion % works, but if his yards didn’t mean as much because he had to pass, wouldn’t his completion % not mean as much because he had to pass the ball and the other teams knew it?
Opposing defenses being weak should help him in every category, true (Cutler played SD twice, NE, JAX, CAR, TB, and NYJ who I thought all had at least above-average D, with the Jets being the weak link of that group). But more attempts and bearing more of a load of a team and passing in those come-from-behind, must-make-plays situations should tilt the scales toward a defense, shouldn’t it?
I am not arguing we sell the farm to get him, just that he is a talented guy who plays well and that his trade value is less than what it could be.
If DA played like he did in 07 and still had all of those INTs and a lower completion percentage, I would take him in a heartbeat for my team and he would make the pro bowl every other year. The problem was 08 when he looked horrible. Cutler’s career passer rating and completion % are higher than his 08 numbers. In two full seasons as a starter, he is averaging 4011 yards, 63.95% completion, and 22.5 TDs and 16INTs. In 07 he also had 149 less attempts (not having 8 RBs on IR and having a healthy Champ Bailey helped him out a little). If anything, he is a two-year wonder, not a one-year wonder who has shown he can do it in more situations than DA has.
by rufio on Apr 1, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If DA played like he did in 07 and still had all of those INTs and a lower completion percentage, I would take him in a heartbeat for my team and he would make the pro bowl every other year. The problem was 08 when he looked horrible.
I have a hard time getting past this. I don’t want to turn this into a DA discussion (although I think the Cutler situation is making it more likely that DA starts for the Browns next year than it does anything else). But his 2007 should have been precisely what told any fan or coach or GM everything you needed to know about DA. He wasn’t good. He was average. And that was with everything going right for him. He threw too many INTs, wasn’t accurate enough, played poorly in any combination of tough defenses or bad whether. These are measures that are relevant. It makes DA’s pro bowl season look like what it was- average at best.
These same measures make Cutler’s pro bowl 2008 look like what they are- solidly above-average to good. Yards in a season and TD #s are build more on circumstance than quality of the QB accumulating them.
This is NOT all to say that Culter is a bad QB. He is a very good QB, especially at his age and the ON THE FIELD issues he has had to deal with. But he isn’t great. And isn’t good-enough, in my mind, to warrant giving up on Quinn for him. That’s just on talent and potential. When you add the professional questions I mentioned above, I don’t want the Browns to have anything to do with this guy.
Unless its to ship DA out in a 3-way deal that nets us non-QBs and/or picks.
by DaytonDogg on Apr 1, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then how about John Elway playing in the same system never had a higher completion percentage than Jay Cutler did last year.
The kid is legit.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 1, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, that says more about Elway than Cutler. (I think he is pretty overrated- again, that’s a different discussion). Whatever you think of Elway, he was never heralded as accurate. Besides, he stopped playing 10 years ago. The more relevant players are those that played in Cutler’s same era. It’s pretty clear he is middle of the road. Again, that’s impressive for a kid so young, but its not worth much to teams that have a decent alternative.
by DaytonDogg on Apr 1, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree the whole situation isn’t perfect. But if you look at what this kid has done throughout his whole career, it is pretty amazing.
He won at Vanderbilt for God’s sake.
If you could have any QB in the NFL for the next ten years for your team who would it be? The only other guy I am thinking about taking before Cutler is Matt Ryan. Last I checked, the Falcons aren’t trading him.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 1, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to agree. I am frankly astonished that a case is even made that Jay Cutler has not been awesome thus far in his career.
I have high hopes for Brady Quinn and am a big fan, but if the opportunity exists to get Cutler, we’d be foolish to not explore it
by Roger Dorn on Apr 1, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In all honesty, wouldn’t every Browns fan here not be thrilled if Brady Quinn turned into Jay Cutler?
So why should we not turn a “hope” into the real thing?
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 1, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with all this. As much as I like Brady Quinn, if we could turn him in to Jay Cutler then I’d be all for it. He’s a proven commodity and still very young. But I wouldn’t want to give up too much so I don’t think it will happen.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 1, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Quinn goes, I will more than likely quit following the Browns.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 2, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who would I rather have in the next ten years? Philip Rivers, Aaron Rogers, Matt Ryan, Ben Roethlisberger, Carson Palmer. Cutler was in the mix, sure… before this crap. But even then, he wasn’t clearly above these guys, by any stretch.
Why can’t Brady Quinn join this group? Has the upside… he won in the post-Shultz Notre Dame… that may be more impressive than winning at Vandy.
by DaytonDogg on Apr 1, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a hard time with this headcase stuff. As I recall, the history of this was that he found out they were trying to deal him. He got upset since he thought he was the man. He met with McDaniels who didn’t do anything to reassure him that he was the qb of the future. Only then did he stop taking calls.
I don’t see how this is any different than McNabb last year or even Rogers and Mangini this year. All these guys have egos, and you have to stroke them. We really have no knowledge as to Cutler’s mental make up other than this incident which may or may not have been avoided by McDaniels telling him, “I tried to get Cassell because he was my guy, but I think you can be my guy too. I’m sory I didn’t tell you personally, but I need you with me to go and build a champion for years to come.” Instead he got, “Yeah i tried to trade you and I may try and do it again”.
by dvd1204 on Apr 1, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But McNabb and Rogers wised up and quickly moved past it. Like professionals.
by DaytonDogg on Apr 1, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who is your starting Qb next year???
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Apr 1, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How bout this
quinn and 5 for cutler and 12 i think that is fair especially with the whole quinn,weis, and mcdaniels connection and cutler just not wanting to play there
by cgerycz on Apr 1, 2009 3:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You’re saying that the only difference between Brady Quinn and Cutler are 7 spots in the draft?
by gahnki on Apr 1, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He proposed this idea before, I believe — that’s only “fair” by Browns fan standards.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 1, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the stat that ESPN includes in the story. Cutler is 13-1 in his career when his defense gives up fewer than 21 points.
To analyze Cutler on his failure to make the playoffs totally neglects what an awful defense he has been accompanied with. Keep in mind the Broncos had been for a few years running taking the Browns’ defensive line castoffs.
by Roger Dorn on Apr 1, 2009 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don’t forget the RBs on IR last year. They were just flat out bad except for the passing offense last year. If people want to assign that to the OL, the WRs or Cutler, whatever. But that defense and that running game was worse than ours at the end of last year.
by rufio on Apr 1, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea forgot about that. I think they had 4-5 RBs go on IR
by Roger Dorn on Apr 1, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
6 RB’s on IR last year. That doesn’t even seem possible. They used 8 RB’s last year.
Andre Hall, Ryan Torian, Peyton Hillis, Selvin Young, Micheal Pittman, and P.J Pope all went to IR.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 1, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Peyton Hillis injurt cost me in fantasy. I was on the verge of advancing in the playoffs
by Roger Dorn on Apr 1, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great point
I read this a while back and it really is a good sign for whomever gets him.
If we switch picks in the 1st (which gets us picking up a OLB with a bunch of upside and not so big a bust potential), give up a second (but get a second from DA) and give them Quinn (who has upside, but so does Cutler) would be a good draft for us. If we wanna pitch it down the field like we did in ‘07, Cutler’s strengths surpass Quinns.
The problem with the new staff is we really don’t know what they want to do as an offensive philosophy, We’ll know more about what we are gonna do next year when Cutler gets traded.
by blockersave93 on Apr 1, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Daboll wants to run the Tom Brady offense. Accuracy, intelligent plays, no so much Air Croyell like Chud in 07.
by rufio on Apr 1, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we do know what Mangini wants to do
Just look at what he did last year: He put all his eggs in one basket with Favre. His offensive philosophy is all about letting the quarterback be the field general.
Therefore, I think a SMART trade for Cutler is weighing heavy on his mind.
DA would love to head West. Now is the time.
DP
by oddjobdrummer on Apr 1, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Mangini wanted Favre; I’m pretty sure it was the owner and GM who were behind that move.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 1, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a lot of talk about Cutler having a bad attitude since he is requesting this trade, but has he had this label prior to this incident?
Also, while I don’t believe this should be a consideration, how is the average Browns fan going to take to trading the golden home town boy before he even gets a chance? I can just see this turning into a pr nightmare if Quinn is dealt and plays well in Denver while the Browns continue to struggle (regardless of the reason behind the Browns struggles). We will be in rebuilding mode again in 2 years rather than the usual 4.
by dvd1204 on Apr 1, 2009 4:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If he goes out and throws for 4,500 I doubt anyone will care where he is from.
Santa Claus Indiana is still a pretty bad ass hometown.
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 1, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Santa Claus is pretty tight IMO. I spend my summer at the theme park there, Holiday World.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 2, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PR nightmare? That is an understatement. PR nightmare was what happened to Savage/Crennel. But if Quinn is traded and succeeds… yikes.
by DaytonDogg on Apr 1, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler will not be in afc
the broncos will make a trade to an nfc team so cutler cant come back and bite them on the ass
by bucfanlostiniowa on Apr 1, 2009 8:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cutler is fine young QB
I would love to get him, however if that means Browns giving up picks, I am not for it. Browns need players on the “D” side of the ball to get this team in the playoffs.
I would have no problem starting camp with DA and Quinn.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Apr 1, 2009 9:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A Sub-Prime Deal
I don’t doubt that Cutler has more talent at QB than the Browns have seen for a long time, but I still don’t think the Browns would be wise to trade for him.
First of all there’s the price tag. We’re not going to get a fire sale on this guy. The Browns simply cannot afford to make any deal that decreases the number of draft picks that they hold for this year.
Secondly, I don’t see the new regime and Cutler playing well together. I don’t know Cutler – never shared a cab with him, never deployed with him. But if what we’ve seen in the news so far is any indication, then I would think that the new regime would balk at bringing in a guy so lacking in maturity. It’s not as if the Browns have zero options at QB currently.
Finally, and this point is less rational, after the trades that they made to get him, I want to see what Quinn can do with a healthy hand and (hopefully) a better supporting cast.
The worst case scenario is that Quinn stinks up the field and the Browns end up with a high draft pick on 2010. If that happens, use that pick to get the next QB.
If mortgage everything to bring in Cutler and can’t put any viable pieces around him, what have we accomplshed? Haven’t we been there before?
by JustBob on Apr 1, 2009 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think anybody with the Browns, or any Browns fan, wants to “mortgage everything” to bring in Cutler. Even if the Browns do explore a trade for him, which I’m not saying they should, they’re not going to give up too much when they already have two capable starting QB’s. But I don’t think anybody is suggesting that we give up everything for Cutler.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 2, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is getting more and more ridiculous. Two weeks after he demands to be traded, he says this
"I was surprised they decided to trade me this soon. I didn’t want to get traded. This wasn’t me. They [The Broncos] had been going back and forth saying things, wanting me to be their quarterback and then they didn’t.
“I really didn’t want this. I love Denver. I really like my teammates. I didn’t want it to get this far.”
What?!?! He’s surprised they traded him and he didn’t really want this??? Then why did you have your agent tell the Broncos you wanted to be traded? And in this day of instant communication, his agent supposedly can’t get a hold of him to set up a meeting? He’s got problems.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 2, 2009 11:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree, I read that also, and thought “what the hell is with this guy”. It appears more and more, as soon as McDaniels came on board with his staff, Cutler wanted out. Mcdaniels gave Cutler the excuse when he went after Cassel.
As soon as Cutler is traded he will want an extension on his contract.
Browns should stand pat, try to get more picks, not trade them away.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Apr 2, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Denver really does want Quinn instead of Cutler, why should we want Cutler instead of Quinn? And give up draft picks we can’t afford to give away? We have a coach and offensive coordinator coming from the same system as McDaniels. My assumption is that they want Quinn for the same reasons Denver does (if, in fact, Denver does want him), which is all the more reason why we wouldn’t swap. If Cutler doesn’t fit in with Denver’s offensive plan, I doubt Anderson would be of interest to them, so he is out as well. Sounds like a no-go to me. I’m still of the opinion that we should deal Anderson for as much as we can get, whatever that is, just to end the uncertainty for the players so they can focus better. I don’t believe Anderson’s value is going to increase any in the next year, and the quarterback draft situation next year could even diminish his value further.
by NM Dawg on Apr 2, 2009 12:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Denver is trading Cutler because they don’t want him, they’re trading him because he demanded a trade and doesn’t want to pay for them any more. I think McDaniels wanted to get Cassel because he’s familiar with him and he knows the system, but once that didn’t work out I’m pretty sure they wanted to keep Cutler. So I don’t think we should be reading in to this that Denver thinks Brady Quinn is a better quarterback than Cutler, because he certainly hasn’t proven himself yet.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 2, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quinn also hasn’t proven himself to be a gunslinging, throw forcing turnover machine, as Cutler seems to be. So sick of this “he’s not proven yet” argument. He’s a starting NFL QB who takes care of the ball. It’s not like we don’t know what his floor is. And his ceiling is anywhere from average (ie, worse than Cutler) to great (better than Cutler). We shouldn’t be giving up picks for that kind of “sure thing” “upgrade.”
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Apr 2, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brady Quinn has started a total of two (or is it three?) games in the NFL, so I don’t think you can say he’s proven anything yet. I think he’ll be a good NFL quarterback but I don’t know. I know that Cutler is a very good NFL quarterback right now, and the number prove it.
I’m not saying that we should give up picks for Cutler, but to say that Quinn is the same caliber of QB as Cutler would be premature, I think.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 2, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Apr 2, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said anything close to that. I addressed the idea that trading for Cutler is a definite upgrade at the QB position. It is not. Not next year and certainly not for the next 10, considering how much two defenses in our division eat and spit out gun-slinging QBs.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Apr 2, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To the greater point, we need definite upgrades at many positions. It would be foolish to net fewer picks and not gain a definite upgrade.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Apr 2, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s a moot point now, but i agree. cutler is a clear and definite upgrade over our current qb situation, at least on the field.
by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 2, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what is Cutler worth in terms of picks alone? Reports are that Denver wants at least two first round picks and Quinn has an “established value” of a 1st and early 2nd when we made the draft day trade for him. By that math, Quinn and the 5th overall should be “fair” value trade as viewed by Denver.
So would you trade Quinn and the 5th pick for Cutler?
by dvd1204 on Apr 2, 2009 2:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It really comes down to what Mangini and Kokinis want to do with this team. Cutler’s been around long enough that they should be able to determine his strengths and weaknesses. If they determine that the former outweigh the latter – in the system that they want to run – then it could make for a good strategic move from the QB perspective. But even without getting into QB comparisons, there is at least one major drawback.
Short of any further trades, that would leave the Browns with only four picks for 2009 with which to select players to build the team. Considering that most of the free agent signings have been stop-gap measures featuring older players, I don’t like the idea of the Browns losing any more picks thtis year.
by JustBob on Apr 2, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will burn it all
I love how the Quinn haters knock him because he’s “untested.” Damn right! We had the seasick manatee coach who kept playing DA (who’s never been more than inconsistently alright). Quinn, and I’m not alone here, is the future for the Browns QB. Sorry if you didn’t like what you saw in two games where he played with a broken finger on his throwing hand (or his first healthy game where he managed a 100+ QB rating with less than a week’s preparation).
If Quinn goes, FOR CUTLER OF ALL PEOPLE, I will burn it all. Every jersey, every plush football, every blanket, every t-shirt, every jacket, every can coozie, every ticket stub. I’ll put it in a pit, douse it in gas, and light a match. I’ll film it all and post it on YouTube for the world to see.
And at the end I’ll turn the camera to me, flick two middle fingers in the air, and tell Mangini I will NEVER again support this team.
Ten years of heartache and you want to ditch our best chance at a real QB for CUTLER? Do the Browns even realize just how many of their fans are hanging on by a thread? How do you show your kids how to love a team that can’t seem to do anything but lose and disappoint?
Absolutely not. If Quinn goes, I go.
I’ll burn it all.
Then I’ll buy a Steelers jersey.
by zesty on Apr 2, 2009 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was OK with you until the last sentence. Emotions can only take you so far, and that definitely isn’t to a Steelers jersey.
by drjeo on Apr 2, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you a Quinn fan or a Browns fan?
by Roger Dorn on Apr 2, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
browns fan
quinns gotta go if the browns are gonna do anything like maybe make the playoffs
by derekandersonistheman on Apr 2, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea right Quinn is better than Anderson why else would he get benched.
Its kinda funny how our names are similar, just supporting a different qb
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 4, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don’t mean this to be as jerk-y as it sounds, but honestly no one cares if you’ll continue to root for the browns or not, regardless of the moves that they make.
everyone is tradable. everyone. for the right return. better get used to it if you plan to be a football fan.
by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 2, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
your a punk
and you never were a browns fan if youll give it all up if you fav.qb an average qb at best gets traded grown up
by derekandersonistheman on Apr 2, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Quinn is average at best then Anderson is the next Gradikowski
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 4, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ten years of heartache
Your a Browns fan and have had 10 years of heartache? So I guess you are ten years old then? Get used to it kid.
Then I’ll buy a Steelers jersey.
Being a Browns fan isn’t easy. That’s why it is a special group of humans. Anyone can be a front runner. Browns fans stick around through tough times. If you want to run and go be a Steelers fan, no one is stopping you, but don’t come back to us. I have no use for bandwagon fans. Go buy your Ward jersey and talk about how cool it is a be a fan of a “great team”. I will talk about how great it is to be a real fan and not some “grass is always greener” douchebag that only wants to be around when times are good. Don’t let the door hit you on your way out…
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 2, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you talking about?!?! Who here is a “Quinn hater”? Saying that another quarterback is better than him doesn’t mean you hate Brady Quinn. We discuss football objectively on this site, so if you want to hang around you’d better get used to it. Brady Quinn is not God, and you’d better realize that soon.
Also, if you base your entire fandom on rooting for one player then you’re not going to be a fan of any team for very long.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 2, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want Cutler, period!
Why should the Browns “help out” Denver and the mess their baby face head coach made with their “star” crybaby QB?
We got rid of K-2 because he had “issues” and wasn’t a “team player”. We’re talking about moving Edwards because he is “selfish” and drops too many balls. Now Denver wants the Browns to take on a hurt feeling, pouting, take my ball and go home, crybaby??
I would NOT get involved in this soap opera!!
Denver supposedly wants Brady Quinn…the Browns can’t decide on whether or not if he is good enough to be OUR QB. Doesn’t that tell you that we should keep him?
Mango/Koko, please just keep Quinn and pray that some team will give us a pick for DA!!
by bestSSomar on Apr 2, 2009 4:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with bestSSmoar not with u derekandersonistheman
The idea of getting rid of Quinn is ridiculous, he’d be a lock as the #1 in this years draft. Cutler is a solid young qb, but lacks mental toughness and team command. Quinn is a natural leader, he has the pocket presense and huddle command you can’t teach. Give this kid a chance and stop wasting your time with DA. DA will produce in the right system, but Cleveland is not his place. The Cutler trade to Chicago works great for Cleveland, raising the bar on DA’s trade value and should solidify Quinn moving foward with our squad and showing the NFL what he has to offer. The Browns should ship Braylon, talented but isn’t interested in Cleveland and won’t resign next year, get what you can before its too late. To “Derekandersonistheman” what planet you from bro? Are you alright? Stop hating on Quinn, you hate him cause your lady has a crush on him? Let me guess your the only real browns fan out there, go to bed genious.
by Kahnarteest on Apr 2, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why trade derek anderson when hes the best qb you got
quinn is a punk who has not in his career shown he can win the big game cut him loose now befor he hurts us in the long run to the playoff for all you quinn fans grow up the hometown boy never makes good let him go somewhere else to have his at best average career
by derekandersonistheman on Apr 2, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is also not fair. Quinn has not been given a chance to show what he can do. His Notre Dame teams were not all that great, and while they never won a bowl game with him, they nearly upset a great USC team because of how well Quinn played
by Roger Dorn on Apr 2, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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