Oooops...

by blockersave93 on Apr 16, 2009 12:54 PM EDT

All the talk about trading BE has likely gone by the wayside with Boldin now in play. Unless someone else steals Boldin, it would be shocking if the Giants took Edwards instead even if the Cardinals requests are outlandish.

I think waiting for the best deal possible was a good idea for the Browns, let's now not give up BE for too little value.

And NOW who is the number 5 pick? An extra WR at #5??

This is a fan-created post. Dawgs By Nature assumes no responsibility for the content listed.

Tweet Comment 32 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

It’s not obvious any team would rather have Boldin than Edwards. At all.

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Apr 16, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions

The stats favor Boldin, he has had a more productive last 3 years with a marginal team (till last year). He is in his prime and has not had wild swings of productivity. I don’t like the guy, but with his consistency and skills, he is the better WR.

You could argue BE has more upside, but that is about it.

by blockersave93 on Apr 16, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions

How can you not like Boldin? Guy played through a broken face

by Roger Dorn on Apr 16, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions

With NO PAINKILLERS. Bad. Ass.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 17, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Boldin also never had Ken Dorsey throwing him the ball. I bet Edwards tops Boldin’s yardage last year even while dropping 30+ balls if we had a legitimate #2 QB throwing him the ball the last 4.5 games of the season. Braylon wasn’t back to full speed in 2006 after his knee injury. Players are usually cleared 9 months after the surgery, but don’t get back to full speed for at least a full year.

So many factors go in to a WR’s stats that they don’t say a whole lot about how good he is, how much a defense fears him, or what he would do on another team. Both are very talented, both are considered #1 WRs in the league.

by rufio on Apr 17, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions

I doubt that he woulda surpassed Boldins yardage because he was so devoid of confidence last year. On the sidelines, he was always sulking while Boldin wanted to get in the game. That also goes into what makes a player good. Also Boldin had a 1000 yard year in spite of missing 4 games with a YPC of 11.7 while BE had 873 yards in a full 16 games with a YPC of 15.9.

You are 100% right, more goes into a player than numbers, and different people will see them differently.

By the way, Dorsey was 3rd on the depth chart, but I see your point. What a waste that guy was. He has as good an arm as Johnny Damon!

by blockersave93 on Apr 17, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions

These stats, and considering the QBs vs. games played, as well as overall success of the offense make me think you’re arguing that Edwards is the better player.

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Apr 17, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions

How do you figure?

Lets take the some of the QB problems out and look at the stats through games 1-8 when the 1st and 2nd QBs played for the Browns.
BE: 26 receptions 457 yards 57.1 YPG 17.6 YPC 70 Long 5.0 YAC 20 1st Downs 3 TDs
AB: 42 receptions 514 yards 85.7 YPG 12.2 YPG 79 Long 6.8 YAC 31 1st Downs 8 TDs

And before you say anything about the QBs having a bad year(which I admit they did and did limit BEs productivity), consider AB only played in 6 games over that stretch and he was the second target to Fitzgerald while BE was the primary target all year.

by blockersave93 on Apr 17, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions

I just meant the YPC extrapolated out in (presumably) offenses that were on opposite ends of the effectiveness spectrum.

I think they’re both 1s, so I don’t think it’s clear at all that one is better than the other.

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Apr 17, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions

You are right, and I think BE may have more upside given his age and inconsistency at QB but to me right now I like AB’s intangibles and how he goes across the middle, the end of the year has shaken my confidence in BE.

by blockersave93 on Apr 17, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Understandable.

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Apr 17, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Your stats seem to say that Braylon is a better deep threat, meaning that “upside” isn’t the only area where he has the edge on Boldin, as you say above.

by rufio on Apr 18, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions

By the way, Dorsey was 3rd on the depth chart, but I see your point.

Huh?

I said Braylon would have caught Boldin if he had a legit #2 QB throwing him the ball. Dorsey was the #3, not a #2. Dorsey probably wasn’t even a legit #3 QB, which we seem to agree on.

by rufio on Apr 18, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Good

I hope we keep braylon, draft crabtree, and have two big wr threats which would be fun to watch. Then draft d in the second round with one or both of our two picks. Keep Quinn and Anderson, let them compete and the best man wins… i believe teams tend to overvalue draft picks why trade talent for question marks when you already know what you have. This team is not as bad as you all think especially with there easy schedule (despite playing pitt and ravens 2x). Have a lil faith guys and get behind mangini and the squad rather than criticize.

by cgerycz on Apr 16, 2009 3:47 PM EDT reply actions

I am not criticizing the staff, I actually agree with how they are handling the situation. I agree the team is not as bad as some think.

I do disagree with loading up on WR though. There usually is only room for 1 big time WR on a team, because you lose some productivity with the second, or their looks are too widespread and consistency becomes an issue.

If we ignore the OLB spot, we are in trouble.We need to play hard nose football and our pass rush will limit the defense from being able to perform like they can. I would prefer us to trade down and get another pick or two rather than take Crabtree if we are gonna keep BE. Draft a WR later on in the draft to be a #2.

by blockersave93 on Apr 16, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions

We seemed to find plenty of room for both Winslow and Edwards in 2007. Besides, Edwards is likely gone after next year via FA even if we don’t trade him. Even if the Browns were successful and Edwards was productive, I doubt he’d re-sign. He doesn’t seem to like Cleveland, and it seems highly likely he will be clashing with Mangini over the next two seasons.

Carmona for Cy Young 2009

by danvail on Apr 20, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions

The Cards are rumored to want a 1st and 3rd for Boldin FYI.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 16, 2009 3:49 PM EDT reply actions

I actually think the Boldin situation helps the Browns. If they really want to trade BE, then only a few teams will be willing to pay the price. Mortensen reported on ESPN radio this afternoon that the Ravens are in the lead for Boldin.

If that happens, BE is the only proven WR left on the trade market. If the Eagles trade for Boldin, that puts more pressure on the Giants and visa versa.

Nothing is going to happen until draft day. But I now think that BE is going to be traded.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 17, 2009 2:46 AM EDT reply actions

Interesting point

I hope there is interest from multiple parties, you are 100% right, that would help the browns.

I agree it’ll be draft day when we figure out.

by blockersave93 on Apr 17, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Have to admit that I was pretty surprised that Pluto strongly recommended trading Edwards in today’s (4/17) PD. Pluto is the only PD writer that I give any credibility to. His endorsing the deal makes me rethink the whole thing.

by drjeo on Apr 17, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions

If the Ravens get Boldin, we are screwed until Ed Reed’s arm falls off or Ray Lewis’ age catches up to him

by rufio on Apr 18, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions

I am still not sold on Flacco. I know he had a good rookie year, but he had 10 games where he didn’t throw for 200 yards. It was the offense he was asked to play and he played it well, but I will be looking forward to see how he handles the offense when team start taking away the run.

He was brutal in the playoffs, but that was expected with him as a rookie. I would still like to see more out of him.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 18, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions

“Game manager” is Latin for this guys sucks, please don’t screw up

by Roger Dorn on Apr 18, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Still, look how good the Ravens were last year with Flacco throwing as little as he did. Until that defense starts showing its age, it would be hard enough to beat Baltimore. Add Boldin to that mix, and it doesn’t get any easier.

by rufio on Apr 18, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions

This may have been covered already, but what if we flipped it around a little. For example, if the Giants wanted to trade up to our #5 spot in order to draft Crabtree as an alternative to going for Edwards, what would they have to give up? Would it be the equivalent of the Giant’s 1 and 3, or more? That could possibly set a minimum bid for Edwards, as I think the consensus is that Edwards is valued more highly until Crabtree can prove himself.
Or, Kiwanuka and a 2nd would look pretty good to me.

by NM Dawg on Apr 17, 2009 4:15 PM EDT reply actions

I doubt the Giants would be willing to take Crabtree. They are in win-now mode.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 18, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed. I’m trying to see how the Giants might view the trade situation. I don’t think they have much interest in Crabtree, even at #5, if Edwards is available. So, Edwards is worth more than what it would take them to trade up. If the #5 pick is worth a 1st and a 2nd, or two 1sts, or a 1st and a 3rd, then it is very reasonable for the Browns to ask for more than that amount to trade Edwards.

by NM Dawg on Apr 18, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions

That’s a good idea, but I think the Giants want a guy that has experience because it seems they believe an established WR is the missing piece from a playoff team and a Superbowl team.

by blockersave93 on Apr 17, 2009 4:30 PM EDT reply actions

Boldin being available helps the BE trade possibility. We are asking less for BE then the Cards are for Boldin. That gives us a better chance of BE leaving. As for a replacement for BE we could get someone like Hakeem Nicks at the end of the first round(the giants pick) and pay him a lot less money for one and still get an OLB or LB early.

by brob05 on Apr 18, 2009 12:34 AM EDT reply actions

Give me the sure playmaker. LB’s can be found all throughout the draft. Game changing WR’s are truely rare.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 18, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree. The second round will have good LBs like Barwin, cody Brown, Kruger, Michael Johnson, and Sidburry

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 19, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions

i would love to have a guy like barwin as our pick at 35. the problem i have with our #5 pick is that i dont really see anyone that i can get excited about. i dont think curry will be there and im not in love with crabtree. if its not one of them orakpo seem like he could be the next wimbley and that would set us back again. ideally it would be great to trade down into the early 20’s range and get a guy like clay matthews or brian cushing. plus a trade down would get us a second or a 3rd rounder to help us add some depth

by brob05 on Apr 20, 2009 5:06 AM EDT reply actions