Cleveland Browns 2009 NFL Draft Day 2 - Open Thread / Live Blog
by Chris Pokorny on Apr 26, 2009 9:43 AM EDT
in General News
130 comments
The Browns don't have a pick in the third round -- at least not yet -- but they very well could move up after three first-round trades yesterday. Or, when we're on the clock in the fourth round, we could move down to own the entire sixth round of picks!
12:20 PM: No action for the Browns in the third round, though it's worth noting that the Cincinnati Bengals were able to get Michael Johnson at that point.
12:30 PM: Round four, the Browns select USC linebacker Kaluka Maiava at No. 104 overall.
12:53 PM: We're probably in for a boring stretch here. The Browns aren't scheduled to pick again in the fourth round or the fifth round. Right now, this is what we're facing in round six:
- Round Six: No. 177 overall
- Round Six: No. 191 overall
- Round Six: No. 195 overall
2:00 PM: Round 4 has just ended, meaning we're still a little over a round away from the Browns being on the clock again. RB Rashad Jennings is still available. Personally, when Round 6 rolls around, I think I'll be on J'Nathan Bullock watch.
2:22 PM: I just read that Maiava, our fourth-round draft choice, is the nephew of The Rock (Dwayne Johnson, formerly of the WWE). Not that it means anything, I just like reading about connections.
3:57 PM: All right, I stared at the draft tracker for a long time, but no trades involving the Browns came. The sixth round is finally here, and we should be on the clock shortly.
4:08 PM: The Browns took CB Don Carey from Norfolk St. at No. 177 overall. Can't say I know a single thing about him yet. Two more sixth-round picks to follow (see above for schedule).
This is an open thread for Day 2 of the NFL Draft. Please keep all (or most) of today's draft discussion here.
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lifetime fan
I just can’t knock what the Browns are tring to do here. I’ll always be a big Browns fan and for that I guess I’ll always be taking my lumps. But I see what they’re woking towards, and I just hope they know a little more than I do about these vets that they’re bringing over. If we’re gonna win soon these guys need to produce, and play together like a team. There’s a lot to be said for overachievers playing together as one unit instead of having one or two prima donnas that no one is going to stick it out for.
My impression of the former Jets players now on the Browns roster is that they have just enough talent and youth left in them to help the Browns improve from 4-12 and to help keep things from getting too God-awful whilst in rebuilding mode. It will be interesting to see whether Mangini and Kokinis are able to find any easter eggs hidden in the 6th round.
Awesome Day One!
Let’s keep up the momentum-Gotta fill up camp with players. He’s right on with this strategy-it’s time tested and superbowl-ring approved.
No action from the Browns in Round 3; time to see what they do in Round 4 here.
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Yep
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Apr 26, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they did a couple different things, so I don’t know if “starter” really means anything. He was their 4th LB behind the much heralded trio, for sure.
Gotta say I would have went with Sidbury or Jennings there.
Is he gonna be suited to play ILB or OLB
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 26, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Im not sure about this pick. We already have Bell that we took in the 4th last year
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 26, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Kaluka Maiava??? An undersized OLB in the 3-4? He will get swallowed up by every single LT/RT in this league. Another disappointing pick. Wow…the ManKok regime is off to a terrible start. How about Rahard Jennings as RB of future? DJ Moore for CB depth? Lawrence Sidbury, truer OLB potential?
5’11, 228 lbs, 4.8 40
Too small to play any LB position in the 3-4 and too slow to switch to safety (if that was even a thought). This draft is just getting worse and worse by the day. Thank goodness the draft is only 2 days long. My weekend is shot.
So you’re kind of “glass-half-empty” kinda guy?
by doowop on Apr 26, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In a 3-4, the undersized OLB plays ILB. I don’t think we’ll have to worry about him matching up with tackles… the better question is whether this guy is smart enough to handle the dynamic role needed to read plays, stop the run and fall back into coverage. So far, ManKok has only drafted smart hard nosed players, so I’ll opt to wait before I judge this pick. But it does seem highly questionable to me…
Looking over depth charts of teams that play 3-4 this is what I’ve found for ILBs:
Ravens: Lewis 6’1 250, Suggs 6’3 260
Steelers: Farrior 6’2 243, Harrison 6’0 242
Patriots: Mayo 6’1 242, Thomas 6’2 270
Cowboys: James 6’2 240, Ware 6’4 257
I’m not here to flame or get flamed. But this is a special teams pick at best.
Looking at ridiculously talented linebackers? Or depth charts? Because I see you looking at ridiculously talented LBs.
Malava will get bigger. Probably not Suggs or Thomas’ size, but I don’t think Mayo’s size is out of the question.
The real reason this pick appears bad is because he doesn’t have the speed to compliment DQ. I don’t see Mangini picking that type of LB unless he is a freak athlete who also happens to be a great “football player”, meaning it would probably be a top 10 pick.
Bigger maybe, but not taller. And bigger on a small frame isn’t necessarily good or bad. It depends on the person.
But it seems you and me got something going on. Anyways, it’s as I typed it. I looked over depth charts and it just so happens they are great backers. Sure I could have looked at other teams who play the 3-4, but I chose the top 4 teams and went to yahoo sports and look at DEPTH CHARTS. According to Yahoo those are the hts/wts of their ILB’s. So if you have an issue with me, as it seems, you might want to redirect it to Yahoo and let them know you don’t agree with what they have listed. That’s how I see it.
As far as my previous post about Maiva, I sent that out of pure emotion. I’m sure the kid is talented and can help us. whether it’s on defense or special teams, we could use him. i love his heart and attitude. So as I previously stated, I will trust ManKok and reserve judgement and criticism and root for the guys picked and acquired.
I do find it comical that prior to him being drafted he was listed at 5’11 228 and in todays paper he’s 6’0 230. So whatever magical pill you felt he could take to get bigger, it’s working.
Settle down, dude. He’s not taking issue with your facts, he’s taking issue with who you’re comparing him to. You compared him to some of the best ILB’s in the league, but he’s a fourth round draft choice. Of course he’s not going to be that size, because if he was he’d probably be a first or second round pick. That’s the kind of player you get in the fourth round. So complaining that he’s not as big as some of the top LB’s in the league is not really fair. He’ll never the player that Ware or Harrison or Lewis or Suggs are, he’s going to be a backup who might get more playing time depending on the quality of his play.
When you say you’re looking at “depth charts”, it looks as though you’re only looking at the starters, not the backups. You should compare him to the backup ILB on other teams to get a more fair comparison. That’s all he was saying.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 28, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Brad, I completely agree with your assessment that he’s most likely a back up and that’s probably who I should have compared him to. Absolutely. But whether he’s a starter or back up, size is still an issue.
But at the same time, when you draft players, regardless of round, you hope that they can come in and play or start right away. Especially when you are drafting a player who plays a position of need. If we took a LT in the 4th round. I’d say wasted pick, but he could be a good back up, because there’s no way he replaces Thomas. Right? But when you pick a LB and LB is a priority need, your first reaction is, can this kid start. At least that was mine. And at the time. Again at the time, I wasn’t pleased with the pick based on his size and the scheme we run. I have since retracted that a couple times now.
forgive me, but aren’t Ware and Suggs (and i think Thomas, and maybe Harrison) OLBs? i mean, D. Ware had, like, 600 sacks last year. the other ILB in BAL was Bart Scott, if i’m not mistaken. let’s get the right facts first.
by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 28, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
get my facts right first huh? well again, genius, because you must have missed it or forgot I wrote it. I got those straight from Yahoo Sports. Check for yourself.
Yahoo! messes up their depth charts by putting some ILBs at OLB and vice versa. If u look at our Yahoo! depth chart, it has dqwell as an OLB
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 28, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
From NFL.com
“Wrestling with ball carriers is something that seems all so natural for Kaluka, whose family tree reads like the “who’s who” of the professional wrestling industry. He is the grandson of professional wrestler Neff Maiava, who was known for walking on a bed of nails that they would bring into the ring. He had a renowned feud with Killer Kowalski, known as the most feared performer of his era. Neff also wrote a children’s book called “Da Grouchy Moocher Boogie Man.”
Neff was related to famed Hawaiian wrestler Peter Maiava, whose daughter married pro wrestler Rocky Johnson. Their son, Duane Johnson, also Kaluka’s uncle, played football at Miami before gaining wide attention as professional wrestler “The Rock”. Other wrestlers within Kaluka’s family are the “Wild Samoans,” Afa and Sika Anoai, along with Afa’s three wrestling sons are Samula Anoa’i (The Great Samu), Larry Anoa’i (L.A. Smooth) and Afa Anoa’i Jr. (Afa Jr.). Junior Anoai (Afa and Sika’s brother) is the father of former WWF World Champion, Yokozuna.
Afa’s daughter married American wrestler Gary Albright. Jimmy Snuka, Jimmy Snuka Jr., Mr. Harry Fuji, Junior Maivia, The Barbarian and Haku (aka Meng) are all distantly related. In addition to the wrestling family tree, Kaluka’s father, Scott Mahoney, attended and played football for Kamehameha Schools and the University of Colorado as an offensive lineman. His brother, Kai, also played football at Colorado and UCLA. "
actually doowop, i know you are basing this statement off my posts. But i’m not that kind of guy. I’m actually a pretty positive person and generally a half full guy. I’m sorry I just don’t like what I’ve seen based on where we picked and who was available and team needs.
Listen I could absolutely be wrong. For the Browns sake and my sanity I hope I am. But based on skill level and measurables, there are more misses than hits in this draft so far.
Were Jennings and Brown both availble?
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 26, 2009 1:34 PM EDT reply actions
As of No. 129 overall, they are both still available. However, there is still another entire round+ before we pick again. Still keeping an eye out for potential trades though — easier to sneak up into the fifth round than the fourth with what we have to give up.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Apr 26, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Since our first sixth-rounder is high, we could probably get a mid-range pick 5th rounder. If there’s a player we really want though, it may cost a fifth-rounder next year to be thrown in as well.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Apr 26, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Andre Brown was taken by the Giants at No. 129 overall. Jennings still available.
ESPN’s Draft Cast is pretty nice, if you haven’t checked it out.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Apr 26, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm, I guess I learned something. I didn’t know a franchise tag could be withdrawn.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Apr 26, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’d say about two hours away, assuming teams take an average of 3.5 minutes to get their picks in.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Apr 26, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
In the 6th Gartrell Johnson might be there, or maybe Jeremiah Jonhson
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 26, 2009 2:10 PM EDT reply actions
Don’t know where else to put this, but honestly Chris, this guy needs to be replaced:
http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2009/4/25/853292/nfl-draft-ravens-open-thread#14751112
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
yeah, I caught that yesterday. Tis why I flagged that post from “Orange Helmat” ….
I agree, a site mod should not be advocating trolling, in any circumstance. Ever!
Pretty bad that he couldn’t even spell helmet correctly. But, you’re right, a moderator shouldn’t be doing that, but that just shows their immaturity.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 26, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
You might be giving him too much credit ;)
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Apr 26, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I love the one guy on there too, who is their co-writer, who does nothing but trash every pick we make. Then he states that we didn’t address defense at all, when we addressed something with the 5th pick in the draft. The lack of knowledge is both amusing and annoying at the same time.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Apr 26, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s like the site is run by cleveland.com posters.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 26, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Ricky Jean-Francois is an interesting name to keep on the mind for our next pick. He has first round talent, but a ten cent head. This probably means they won’t draft him, but he would be great value for a 6th rounder.
Resident Josh Freeman fan.
I see Javon Ringer is still on the board, I wonder if we’ll look at him in the 6th round. I’d like to see us grab a RB and a DB in the sixth.
He’s gone at the end of the 5th. Jennings is still available.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 26, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
We’ll be on the clock in a few minutes. Rashad Jennings is still out there.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
Another high-character guy according to ESPN.com.
Selected to the NSU and MEAC Commissioner’s All-Academic Teams three times. Selected as NSU’s recipient of the Army Strong Award given to the football player who best exemplifies community service and achievement on the field and in the classroom in 2007.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 26, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s more:
Recognition Skills/Toughness 2 Locates the ball quickly and rarely gets caught out of position but one weakness is aggressiveness and occasionally bites on play action. Excellent upper body strength for size and flashes the ability to reroute receivers but isn’t going to get away with as much contact in the NFL.
Closing Burst 3 Adequate closing burst coming out of backpedal and can limit receivers’ production after the catch. Quicker than fast and flashes adequate recovery speed.
Fluidity 3 Adequate not great. Can flip hips and mirror receivers underneath but loses a little more momentum than preferred for a corner and going to have some problems sticking with quicker receivers in the NFL.
Ball Skills 3 Big hands and flashes the potential to develop into a playmaker but lacks elite ball skills and drops some passes should catch. Plays the receiver instead of the ball at times.
Run Support 3 Doesn’t shy away from contact and fills hard when reads run. Effective drag-down tackler but not going to deliver many big hits. Going to get engulfed by bigger receivers and takes too long to shed blocks.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 26, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
And from The Sporting News War Room:
War Room analysis
Strengths: Has the size, strength and toughness to be a solid in coverage. Looks the part. Is a solid tackler, especially in the open field. Shows the quickness to stay in the hip of the receiver on quick-hit routes. Is strong in bump-and-run coverage, and mirrors receivers all over the field. Has the power to re-route the receiver off the ball and keep him from getting into his route. Shows good recovery ability. Is explosive. Reacts naturally to the ball in the air, and always seems to be around the ball. Is a smart player and a willing learner.
Weaknesses: Has not face a high level of competition. Shows raw technique and fundamentals. Must learn how to read and play in “off” coverage. Must shed blockers faster. Shows below-average hands, catch most passes with his body.
Bottom line: Carey is a good small school player who will get drafted and start by Year 2. He just needs some seasoning. He played a lot of man-to-man coverage in college and will have to learn the nuances of zone coverages. The step up in competition will be Carey�s biggest adjustment.
Sound like a guy who has talent but will need some seasoning, but that’s the kind of player you take in round 6. Maybe he’s another Brandon McDonald.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 26, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Man, check out these quotes from the same source, but on Veikune:
For an undersized defensive end, lacks the flexibility, quickness, explosiveness and speed to play in a linebacker alignment, so a conversion is out of the picture.
However, as a fifth- or sixth-rounder, he makes a lot of sense because he will stick as a No. 3 DE who consistently makes plays when he gets on the field and also becomes a good special teamer.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
Browns don't go to the Wells!
Another draft and another mistake. I will be the first to admit that the Browns made some good draft day decisions however they also made some bad ones. Like not drafting Beanie. I am sorry but the only thing that stands in the way of this young man doing very well in the NFL is a case of the injury bug.
I will state that I am an OSU fan and a Beanie fan which is probably clouding my perceptions but hey… this guy can and will compete in the NFL. He has the size and the power. I think at that late in the round the browns could have been setting good with using that pick for that player.
Listen, I’m a huge Buckeyes fan also and I think Wells is going to be a great back, but “a case of the injury bug” is a big deal in the NFL, especially for a running back. If he can’t stay healthy then he’s not worth a first round pick. We won’t know for a few years down the road, of course, but Mack looks like he’ll be a great player for many years in Cleveland.
Here’s the thing, though — I would love to see every Buckeyes player go to the Browns but that will never happen. We can’t let our Buckeye fandom obscure our viewpoint when evaluating players. There are many great players out there that aren’t OSU guys, and just because we haven’t seen them play as much doeesn’t mean they’re not great players. We have to trust that our FO knows what they’re doing and made the right choice for our team.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 26, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Sporting News take:
Bottom line: Francies first grabbed our attention with his playmaking ability at Oregon State in ’06. But he was then dismissed from the Beavers and had to sit out the ’07 season after transferring. His blend of athleticism and speed is hard to find in tall cornerbacks, and he also shows good instincts, ball skills and the willingness to tackle in run support. He played safety at times in ’08, and that versatility further boosts his value. A strong Senior Bowl week makes squeaking into the first round a possibility, with a high second-round pick almost a certainty.
How did this guy fall this far?
Yeah, a certain second-round pick? Was it the character issues?
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 26, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Scouts, Inc. gave him a much higher rating than Carey. I wonder why he lasted this long, maybe the Browns got lucky here.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 26, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Some character issues for him — he was arrested for illegal weapons possesion in ’07 and dismissed from Oregon St. for violating team rules.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 26, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, me too. He should be a definite upgrade over Jason Wright.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 26, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
SWEET! I have loved this kid from the get-go! I thought he was a 3rd round pick after the college season. Love this pick!
by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 26, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Assuming the draft ends for us here, I’m glad all of our deals dealt with positions of need. We didn’t draft any QB, FB, TE, OT, or OG. We didn’t take a DL, but we got Coleman in the Jets deal.
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Now the cheers for Bullock to last until after the draft begin.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
A little upset we went with Davis over Jennings. There has got to be a red flag on him that every team knows about. Same with Jean-Francois.
the steelers’ draft doesn’t really scare me much.
Glad Baltimore didn’t take much offense, but you know Ozzie is one of the best in the business.
Bengals looking like they drafted well, especially if Andre Smith isn’t a bust. Pretty big ‘if’.
I guess we’ll get to see twice a year if it was a good decision to pass on Maualuga. If he ends up being a good LB you know Browns fans (and Grossi) are going to hold it against ManKok.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 26, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha…Grossi. Lost a lot of respect for him over the past couple weeks.
How does Bud Shaw still have a job?
Maualuga and Keith Rivers could be pretty solid for the Bengals. They really need an edge rusher. I wouldn’t be surprised if Michael Johnson was terrible, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he was an all pro.
I don’t know how Shaw and Livingston still have a job. They’re both hacks.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 26, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I have completely stopped reading their stuff. I make fun of Hoynes and think Grossi is just ok, but Livingston and Shaw are 100% irrelevant at this point.
by Ryan Kelsey on Apr 26, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Same here. I’ll still read Grossi and Hoynes’ pieces on the Browns and Indians, even though I think they both could do a lot better, but I haven’t bothered reading a Shaw and Livingston article in over two years, at least. If you want to know why the newspaper industry is having trouble, the fact that these two hacks still have a job is a good example. They can churn out meaningless garbage every week and still get paid for it.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 27, 2009 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I hate it how we took Davis over Jennings. Nothing against Davis, but hes not as good as jennnigs.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 26, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Also read a scouting report at the Broncos’ blog that quoted Malava as saying he was upset he didn’t run in the 4.5s. 4.18 short shuttle is pretty good for a LB.
He’s already smart, if he can pack 10 lbs on, and actually has 4.5 speed, he could end up being a good pick. Looks possible to me. USC has to have a pretty good training staff, so I am not counting on him becoming a freak athlete all of a sudden.
Next year we need to draft a RB early. And i wouldnt mind us signing Andre Hall cuz he is a FA
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 26, 2009 7:44 PM EDT reply actions
I am a HUGE Harrison fan but he isnt a feature back. We would need a big, tough back to go with him. That is one reason i wanted jennings so much
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 26, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I think at this point a feature back is a luxury the Browns can’t afford. Too many holes elsewhere to use an early pick on a back.
I think Lewis’ eventual replacement will be a pass catching back (like Harrison, perhaps) paired with a bruising goal line back. Those backs are available in the middle rounds.
Depending on how this season progresses, I could definately see us being in a position to take a RB high next year. Of course, way too many things are going to happen in the next year for us to even bother trying to predict our ’10 draft.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 26, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea but next year we might need an RT, RG, DE, or RB. Im not saying we will but we might need to take one of those. I also wouldnt mind Eric Berry or Taylor Mays since Baltimore and Pitt both have elite safeties
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 26, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too. That kind of safety only comes around once in a decade.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 28, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
1. Wait to see how we look this year before you declare that we have “too many holes” to fill for next year’s draft.
2. Every team in the NFL needs a feature back, or at least a guy who plays bigger than Harrison to be #1 on the depth chart. I love Harrison, but I don’t want to see him try to carry the load. He clearly hasn’t been in games enough to this point, but I don’t want to see him get 20 carries/game. We need a guy that can do that and remain effective. I don’t think a “goal line” (I am picturing an aging Jerome Bettis) guy gets that done.
When will we find out about any UDFAs. I wouldnt mind some guys like Augustus Parrish
and Jeremiah Johnson
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 26, 2009 10:31 PM EDT reply actions
We might have signed Penn State WR Jordan Norwood.
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by Chris Pokorny on Apr 26, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
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