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First Guess on 2009 Depth Chart.--- OFFENSE

It is way too early for this, but our roster has gone through some serious changes since the Mangini/Kokinis regime took over.  I took this idea from Grossi over at the PD, but I wanted to make one that is more thorough and more thought out.

 

QB

1. Brady Quinn

2. Derek Anderson

3. Grahm Harrell

First, we have no real clues on who Mangini likes, but to the extent that Anderson doesn't have incriminating photos of him, I don't think a reasonable football mind will pick DA come training camp.  DA had a good year in 2007, sure, but he still wasn't accurate, still had terrible games, and that was a year in which every thing aligned for him (health and productive seasons from every other offensive position, playing against bad defenses with low expectations, etc.)  Quinn has the most upside and all the intangibles.  Mangini seems to love these types of qualities and I think Quinn will grow on Mangini quickly.  I put Harrell over Ratliff as 3rd stringer. Obviously Ratcliff has a leg-up in knowing Mangini and the system, but I think he will be reduced to the practice squad after the other three learn the system.  Looking at Ratliff's mediocre stats at Utah, and the fact that he hasn't seen any action in 2 seasons under Mangini tells me any other discussion about Ratliff is a red herring.  Even if Ratliff makes the team, I can see Harrell making the team too, assuming DA is traded.

 

RB

1. Jamal Lewis

2. James Davis

3. Jerome Harrison

To me, this is one of the weaker units on the team.  I am way down on Lewis.  I was when we signed him, and I think his contribution to our 07 success was overrated.  And despite him being in such "great shape" last year, he looked like he was nearing the end of his career as a starting RB.  Still, he is going to get carries on this team because of his reputation (however undeserved) and because of a lack of other good options.  I put Davis ahead of Harrison for two reasons.  First, Davis is a more traditional all around RB that will be a more natural replacement for Lewis on 1st and 2nd down.  Harrison, instead can be used in a variety of other roles, including a 3rd down and change of pace back.  Second, Harrison doesn't seem to be all that durable compared to Lewis or Davis. 

 

FB

1. Lawrence Vickers

2. Charles Ali

Not much to say here.  Solid and young at this position.  Anyone know how much our OC likes to use FB as a blocker vs. 2 TE or 3 WR sets?

 

TE

1. Robert Royal

2. Steve Heiden

3. Martin Rucker

Again, I wonder how many 2 TE sets we can expect to see in our new system.  Each of these three guys should be able to be a very solid receiving threat and Royal and Heiden are both above average blockers.  I'd like to see Rucker's playing time be consistent and increasing as the season goes on.  He is the future of this position on this roster.

 

OT

1. Joe Thomas

2. Floyd Womack

3. John St. Clair

4. Ryan Tucker

Ryan Tucker could is the key to the puzzle that is the right side of the OL.  If healthy and able, Tucker is one of our top 4 linemen, and he could compete with Womack and St. Clair for the RT job. Given that Womack and St. Clair are pretty decent options, Tucker may find himself as more of a RG candidate anyway.  Thomas is an elite LT, no worries there. 

OG

1. Eric Steinbach

2. Ryan Tucker

3. Floyd Womack

4. Rex Hadnot

5. Alex Mack

Steinbach had a rocky 08.  Hopefully he can put that behind him and stay healthy and effective in 09.  Again, Tucker has a spot here if he doesn't win the RT job, and we might need him more at RG anyway.  Hadnot could be the odd man out.  I didn't mind him, but he was very average. UPDATE- I added Womack to the Guard picture, I didn't realize he played both G and T in his career.  I guess I just figured he was a T because he was signed right after we let go of Shaffer.  This makes it seem like Hadnot is even more on the outside looking in, but it also makes Womack a good candidate as our 6th lineman.  It also means Mack probably can start at C.

C

1. Alex Mack

2. Hank Fraley

Mack is going to start right away.  I think the only thing that would keep that from being at C is if there is a hole at RG.  Fraley is serviceable at this point and has 2 more years left on his contract, but he is aging and couldn't play Guard.  Mack, on the other hand, could play RG for a year and then take over for Fraley and take over the line calls next season.  Again, Tucker seems to be the key to this puzzle. 

WR

1. Braylon Edwards

2. Brian Robiskie

3. David Patten

4. Mohammed Massaquoi

5. Syndric Steptoe/Paul Hubbard

Both BuckeyeBrad and I have harped on how important it was to get Steptoe out of a position where he would have to be playing significant downs.  This was achieved with the second round picks of Robiskie and Massaquoi.  Robiskie should, at the least, fill the Jurivicious/3rd down/possession/red zone role.  He also has a knack for some outstanding catches and has the size and straight-line speed to become a deep threat of sorts.  I'd love some jump balls thrown his way with defenses' bigger corner covering Edwards.  If Robiskie is as mentally prepared and smart as all the reports say, he could have a big rookie year.  Edwards is an enigma of sorts.  He seems to have all the talent and usually the right intentions.  On the other hand, he has a huge weakness in on the field abilities (his hands- potentially a fatal flaw) and its questionable how much this is related to his major character weakness (lack of focus).  All said, he is a elite talent and hopefully some humility, maturity and work ethic comes from the 2008 struggles and a new coaching staff.  If all goes right, this would result in Edwards prospering as a #1... again. 

 

Overall thoughts: we are counting on some rookies (at RB, WR, OL) at some key spots and some bouncebacks from bad 2008 campaigns (Edwards, Steinbach, Lewis).  Bottom line, its hard to say Kokinis and Magini haven't greatly improved our depth and talent (especially at WR, OT, C, and QB)  I don't know anything about the offensive system the Browns plan to run, but I do know that the with the talent/depth upgrade and hopefully a healthy year from at least one of our top 3 QBs, we can expect major improvements to an awful 2008 offense.

 

THIS WAS UPDATED ON 4/29 at 11AM

2 recs  |  Comment 92 comments

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I think the only way Harrell gets onto the active roster, and therefore, depth chart is if DA or Quinn is traded. Ratcliff was obtained for a reason, albeit I don’t know if that reason is to serve as a primary backup or the #3 guy.

I also think Harrison remains #2 on the RB depth chart and we’ll see a pretty even timeshare between he and Lewis. I’d be surprised if the 195th overall pick in the draft steps in to 12 carries a game.

That’s one reason why I don’t like to make immediate judgments after the draft. The draft is an exciting, early taste of the season, and sometimes the emotion of new, young blood gives you more hope for a player than the reality of his skill set dictates.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Apr 28, 2009 4:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Either that, or we’ve been so used to Crennel shelving the rookies. Leon Washington, a fourth round pick in 2006 by Mangini, rushed for 650 yards and caught 25 passes.

With that said, I do hope Harrison can remain the No. 2 running back. I’m still very high on his potential.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by ChrisPokorny on Apr 28, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s true. I think I’m torn between seeing a rookie given the opportunity (as you point out, something Mangini’s willing to do) and giving Harrison the chance to perform, as it’s obvious you’d like to see as well.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Apr 28, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Washington = fast. Davis = ?

by rufio on Apr 29, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lewis-like speed. I think I heard he ran like a 4.59 40.

Carmona for Cy Young 2009

by danvail on Apr 29, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i read he was in the 4.45-4.49 range at his pro day

by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 29, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing that I really liked when I saw tape of James Davis is that he has the speed to get the corner but he seems to run best up the middle.

Also, behind the LOS he is a one cut runner. He has great vision and picks his running holes well. He makes a cut and gets up field as quick as possible. I truly believe that Davis will be the starter at the end of this season. I mentioned Ryan Grant as the runner he reminds me of most.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 29, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like the one-cut style, and I think I remember something about Daboll wanting to run more zone-blocking this year. If so, that’s the type of guy we want.

At Clemson, it looked like a lot of his highlight runs came from the shotgun formation out of a zone blocking “read option” type of play. Quotation marks because their QB was never going to run the ball. That play is basically like the zone blocking scheme run in the NFL, except coming from the shotgun with the “threat” of a QB run.

I am worried about him running up the middle in the NFL, though. I don’t think he will look as powerful as he did against Duke.

by rufio on Apr 29, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn’t Lewis run a 4.35 at the combine? Granted, he has lost a step or three…

And Lewis typically plays at 235-240, right? Davis is…225?

The first 10 yards matter a lot more to me than the whole 40. If he is as quick as Lewis was 2-4 years ago, I am fine with him getting carries.

I guess my point was that Leon Washington was the kind of guy who could play as a rookie because he did one thing well; be fast (right?). Is there anything where we say “we just can’t keep Davis’ ____ (speed, blocking, cutback ability, receiving skills, etc) off the field”?

I really hope Jamal looks more like he did in 2007. Otherwise, RB isn’t looking to hot right now.

by rufio on Apr 29, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

4.37. Wow, he was that fast? And Courtney Brown ran a 4.53…

Jamal apparently thought he was still that fast when he signed with us:

He said he is fully recovered from off-season surgery to remove bone spurs in an ankle and, when in condition, could run a 40-yard dash in the low 4.4 (seconds) or high 4.3s.

Time has not been kind. Or maybe his stopwatch was broken.

Carmona for Cy Young 2009

by danvail on Apr 29, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Courtney Brown was an athletic freak.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 29, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was fast enough in 2007, after everyone counted him out because of 2006. Lets just hope he has good luck with odd-numbered years and that the tread isn’t completely bald.

by rufio on Apr 29, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re- Harrell/Ratliff: The more I looked into Ratliff the more I thought he was just a throw in/deep depth option in that trade. Also, Harrell seems like he has the potential to impress and catch on. Now, if DA is traded/released than Ratliff makes more senses as a #2 than Harrell because at least he has some experience in the system. But in that case, Harrell is still the #3. The only way Ratliff is the number 3, is if Quinn and Anderson remain (I still see it as a 50/50 chance, at best) AND Harrell doesn’t show anything.

by DaytonDogg on Apr 28, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re- Harrison/Davis: I really like Harrison. He can excel and see the field more than he has the past couple years combined, but still not be considered the true #2. Give him a package or 3, let him play 3rd downs, etc. Its just that if Lewis has any minor or major injury, I would look at Davis as being the more obvious replacement as far as receiving 20 carries/game. Hence, the #2 title on the depth chart.

by DaytonDogg on Apr 28, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Harrison could be like sproles if we give him the chance

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 28, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think James Davis can be like Ryan Grant if we give him the chance. I think I am the leading fan of Thunder Davis.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 28, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i love davis, i’m with you. i think he’s the browns’ starting RB in ’11 at the latest.

by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 28, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

dude he was a sixth round pick

thats a pretty hefty prediction

by cgerycz on May 1, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So was Terrelle Davis. Not saying James will match his namesake, but it is not all that uncommon for 2nd day RBs to make an impact (recall that Davis might be a 4th round talent, not just a 6th where he was taken).

by talonk on May 1, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hillis was a 7th rounder last year and he was a beast

Eric Berry Bandwagon

by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 1, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marion Babrer 4th rounder. Steve Slaton was a 3rd rounder last year and went for a G on the ground.

by Bernie19Kosar on May 4, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he could be similar to Sproles, but not quite as productive as him. Just a shade behind him if you will.

by talonk on Apr 28, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A shade behind Sproles would still be explosive

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 28, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you nailed it w/ the RB depth chart, and your illustration of lewis going down to injury is right…davis gets the carries, w/ harrison’s touches increasing more modestly.

at this stage, and i think this is his ceiling, harrison is a change-of-pace, 7-10 touches per game type of guy. he catches the ball well, and is fairly explosive on the edge, but he can’t be counted on as a feature back. and he is no darren sproles…he’s a full shadow behind sproles, not simply a shade.

by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 28, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Im pretty sure Pork Chop is a guard.
Ratcliff would be ahead of Harrell for many reasons.
Harrison should be ahead of Davis.
I am hoping that Hubbard would get the nod over steptoe, and maybe even Patten. He has the speed and size to possibly be something. Norwood also might be in a little bit

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 28, 2009 4:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Norwood is intriguing. And it looks as if they are at least considering bringing in another vet WR. I’m ok with this, because I’m not too high on Patten, especially at his age. I like Hubbard over Steptoe too, but they both are far enough away from significant playing time (thankfully) that it doesn’t really matter.

by DaytonDogg on Apr 28, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I had to guess, although Mangini is saying there is a competition bewteen BQ and DA, BQ will most likely win the competition. My rationale is this. They didn’t percieve they could get a decent retunr on DA in this draft since the Cutler deal and the Stanford/Sanchez/Freeman love.

What I expect to happen is that they “compete” through the exhibition season, and BQ “wins” it. At that point, some other team will have lost a starter/backup to injury, and DA is dealt for a 2nd or 3rd pick in 2010.

by talonk on Apr 28, 2009 5:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Just wondering, are people saying “Ratcliff” as a joke? I’ve noticed several people say it already here, but I wasn’t aware of any inside gags or anything :p

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by ChrisPokorny on Apr 28, 2009 5:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

to be completely honest, i’m still unfamiliar with him to the point that i just copy/pasted from the passage above me, and just so happened to grab the one with the typo.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Apr 28, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, I have corrected it in my post (more grammar corrections tonight), but I actually got confused because when I wiki’d Ratliff all that came up was some name history that I found interesting. Ratliff and Ratcliff has the same origin… no shocker, but that was in my mind when I wrote this and just typed Ratcliff.

by DaytonDogg on Apr 28, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just thought that was his name. Now i notice the lack of a c

Eric Berry Bandwagon

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 28, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don’t think heiden makes it back in time to be the 2nd TE on opening day. my sense is that falls to rucker.

by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 28, 2009 7:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Why? is he hurt?

Eric Berry Bandwagon

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 28, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He’s coming off ACL surgery. Sure, if he’s lucky he’ll come back and be ready. But, it’s very difficult to come back right away, if at all, and be as good as you once were.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by ChrisPokorny on Apr 28, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he really did have to have ACL surgery, the timetable for him to get on the field is about 9 months, probably a little longer because of his age. Then, getting back to full speed would probably take another 6-9 months after that initial 9 months.

I am not expecting much from Heiden this year. Anything we get is a bonus. Who knows, maybe we line Wimbley up at TE

by rufio on Apr 29, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about Big Baby at TE on the goal line?

That would be awesome.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 29, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn’t want to be the 250lb DE trying to stop a run to his side.

I was thinking we could pass to a LB a la the Patriots.

by rufio on Apr 29, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I believe he had the surgery in mid-December.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by ChrisPokorny on Apr 29, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, barring a staph infection or other major setback, he will probably be cleared for the regular season but I doubt we’ll see the Heiden we are all used to. He could surprise, though. Wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong. If we go 3 deep at WR it might not matter much anyway.

by rufio on Apr 29, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he shredded his knee, from what i’ve read, in the philly game…which was, like, week 15 or 16. will be tough to be back in time for opening day after such a late injury, to say nothing of chris’ point about coming back full strength

by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 28, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope we at least will get to see some of Rucker’s ability so we can see if he can be a good starter

Eric Berry Bandwagon

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 28, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

first off i think that bringing in Ratliff and Harrell to camp prob means that DA will be traded sometime this year. weather it is when someones qb gets hurt or someone like SFis looking for an upgrade. i think that mack will start at C to startthe yr. you dont draft a C in the first round if that isnt the intention. between all of the other versitile guys we have for the line someone will be able to play RG. I also hope that hubbard moves ahead of steptoe. He has breakaway speed and good height. overall the depth definitely got better after the draft.

by brob05 on Apr 28, 2009 9:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My argument against that is the fact that most teams have four quarterbacks in camp every single year, with the main competition occurring between No. 3 and No. 4. In that sense, I don’t think the additions of these quarterbacks is anything specifically indicative of Anderson’s status.

Here is now the problem with Hubbard: we have Edwards, Robiskie, Massaquoi, and a guy like Patten/Bennett as your 1-4 receivers. Fifth receivers are no guarantee to make a roster, and if they do, they are expected to contribute on special teams. Steptoe probably has the edge there with prior return duties.

Hubbard will probably be fighting for a practice squad spot along with the other UDFA’s we’ve picked up.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by ChrisPokorny on Apr 28, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Hubbard could be on our roster if he focused but i might like Norwood a little better.

Eric Berry Bandwagon

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 28, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want to see Hubbard catching the ball. We haven’t seen him try since last preseason. He clearly has the size and speed to contribute; if he can catch consistently he could leapfrog somebody.

Hubbard’s physical tools would make me look at him as a gunner on punts. With Cribbs hopefully returning everything kicked at us, I don’t think we’d need Steptoe at all. Hopefully. Robo also did some return work at OSU.

by rufio on Apr 29, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And we also signed Bryan Williams, another returner so Steptoe more than likely wont see much time

Eric Berry Bandwagon

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 29, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here are some highligths of Thunder(james Davis) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqb6SC4jI-M&NR=1

the more i see of him the more i want him to start.

Eric Berry Bandwagon

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 28, 2009 10:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

great vid…but what the hell was with that music?

by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 29, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea why that kind of music was there but i still liked the vid

Eric Berry Bandwagon

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 29, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty skinny looking guy for a 220lber. He can put on more weight. I like his vision and cutting, and he shows flashes of good body lean but will need to be more consistent with that in the NFL. I wonder if he can break those same tackles versus Baltimore or Pit.

Good looking kid for a 6th rounder.

by rufio on Apr 29, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

1. I think Womack is more of a RG who can play RT in an emergency, while St. Clair is more of a RT who can play RG in an emergency. Flop them at the RT spot. As for which one starts, I think it all depends on chemistry if Tucker is healthy. Play Tucker at RG with St. Clair at RT, and Tucker at RT with Womack/Hadnot at RG. See which combination works better and go with that.

2. I want to suggest something that I don’t think has been talked about here yet: giving Lawrence Vickers more carries. Especially if Jamal gets hurt. Vickers isn’t going to string 2 or 3 moves together and make multiple defenders miss, but he has some speed for a FB and he is a big guy. I seem to remember him struggling when given the chance to carry the ball, but I also feel like he has only had chances in short yardage, “everyone in the stadium knows you are running the ball” situations. It worked for McClain and Peyton Hillis (pre injury) last year…thoughts, anyone?

by rufio on Apr 29, 2009 12:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I thought he was going to be used more in this manner when he came out of Colorado. He had 136 carries his last two years at CU and he also had 54 grabs.

I think he has the athleticism to be a weapon. Hopefully we can get him in the open field in some one on ones’ with some smaller DB’s.

I can get behind this. Honestly, I am at the point where I don’t care who takes Jamals’ carries, as long as Jam isn’t getting them. I have seen his take the handoff, studder step, and fall down at the LOS act one too many times. Been there, done that.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 29, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think Jamal is used to not having his quickness yet. He can make a lot more out of those carries just by running full steam into the LOS. He is still a big, strong dude. I don’t buy into the “Jamal needs 20 carries/game” theory. If we can spread the ball around and run with different people, doesn’t that wear our RBs less and the opposing D more?

by rufio on Apr 29, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

qb?

as for QB, i think:
1. quinn (mangini really loves him)
2. ratliff (he’s our most experienced quarterback)
3. harrell (no da-he’s not in cleveland)
and RB, I am not ready to give up on the ghost although I think that James Davis could be a big surprise next year.
at WR you are forgetting about Cribbs, I think he will replace Steptoe…but rumor is that Mangini has some plays where Cribbs is drawn in at DB.
I wish I had a record of saying this before, but this is my first time on here…I have been preaching Cribbs at DB for 2 years…I hope the rumor is true.

by brownsMania on Apr 29, 2009 12:45 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don’t honestly expect to see Cribbs at WR much this year, at least not in a pass receiving role. Mangini is talking about optimizing Cribbs’ opportunities, but I think some of that will be at DB, and I expect to see him run the ball more, either in a “flash” package, or possibly on reverses or quick screens when he lines up at receiver. Cribbs is probably too valuable to risk injury by playing him at WR more than a few plays here and there.

by drjeo on Apr 29, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

RIght. This is why I didn’t list him as a WR. He will see the field on offense, I’m sure. But it won’t be in a traditional WR role. He is kinda an X-back. I could list him as X under QB, WR, and RB. Also, he is the #1 KR and probably #1 PR. And maybe #4 Safety.

by DaytonDogg on Apr 29, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont want him as a starting receiver. If he was in running a reverse or if he lined up at QB for a wildcat i wouldnt mind that.

Eric Berry Bandwagon

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 29, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Saftey

Cribbs would be a nasty safety if he could learn it he has so much athletiscm and no fear i think itd be a good spot for him…. can be worse than sorensen plus now we have enough recievers and no depth at saftey.

by cgerycz on May 1, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ratliff and Herron

IMO Ratliff will be on the active roster. They traded for him for a reason. In a complex NFL trade involving three draft picks and three players there is no such thing as a meaningless “throw-in” player. If Mangini didn’t think Ratliff would be on the roster, he would have negotiated for something or someone else.

Harrell, IF he actually signs with the Browns (still in question), is the definition of “camp arm,” and I use the word “arm” advisably in his case.

Also, Noah Herron should be expected to make the team. He has experience and fills a role to which neither Harrison nor Davis are suited. I expect the Browns to carry 4 RB this season.

by Ziffels on Apr 29, 2009 9:34 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Herron is probably a practice squad player.

Harrell was supposed to go somewhere in day 2 of the draft. He isn’t big and doesn’t have a big arm, but he did manage a complex and prolific offense for multiple seasons. When we got Ratliff, I don’t think we expected to have Harrell sitting for us, unsigned, at the end of the draft. Ratliff maybe wasn’t a “throw-in”, but he was the least significant part of that trade.

by DaytonDogg on Apr 29, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Herron’s not eligible for the practice squad.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by ChrisPokorny on Apr 29, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting. I still don’t think he is really in the mix for the RB depth chart. Maybe a special teams player, if he makes the team at all.

by DaytonDogg on Apr 29, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What do u mean

Eric Berry Bandwagon

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Apr 29, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are rules for eligibility of being on a practice squad. I believe one of them is that a player cannot have accrued an entire season of games (I was looking at the rules earlier). Herron has played too much to be placed on the practice squad I believe.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by ChrisPokorny on Apr 29, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I did not know that. I learned something today!

Carmona for Cy Young 2009

by danvail on May 1, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for doing these, Dogg. It’s interesting reading, and should spark a good deal of comment.

by drjeo on Apr 29, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No problem. Really, I got the idea a little bit from Grossi, but also because I like to have an idea of the depth chart of my teams in my head at all times. Post-draft is one of the times where everything gets thrown out of whack, so I figured to publish my findings on here.

by DaytonDogg on Apr 29, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. Both rec’d for post quality.

Carmona for Cy Young 2009

by danvail on May 1, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think I’m as ready as some folks seem to be to write Jamal Lewis off. I’ve no doubt he’s lost a step as he’s gotten older, but I get the impression that everyone is focusing on his 2008 performance. I figured his production had dropped because defenses were able to load the box because there wasn’t much off a passing threat in the 2008 Browns. I think that kind of scenario would drop Adrian Peterson’s numbers as well.

by JustBob on May 3, 2009 11:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree. Combine that with the fact that the OL was unsettled most of the year. Jamal saw very few holes, and he doesn’t appear to be able any more just to run by (or run over) people like he used to. So, I think he has definitely lost a step, but there is still potential there for a good season: perhaps 1200 yds as a ceiling, but I expect to see him at 1000.

by drjeo on May 4, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He had 1000 yards this season. He was garbage this year. He never even had a 100 yard game.

by Bernie19Kosar on May 4, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope that we can give him limited carries this year but give some of his carries to Harrison, Davis, and Vickers

Eric Berry Bandwagon

by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 4, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, couple things here-
1st, raw yardage is a dubious way to measure a RB’s effectiveness. 1000-1200 yds sounds good, but if its at a 3.7 YPC clip and its the feature back for 16 games, you have a player (and ultimately a coaching staff/OL/offense) that is hurting the team and producing below average.

Like I said above, I didn’t like Lewis when we signed him, and I didn’t like him when he was average in 2007. He hasn’t been a premier RB in this league since 2003, and that was the only season he was significantly above league average. He is yet another year older, and I just don’t see him hitting the line of scrimmage with any more confidence, speed, or power than he has the last 5 years of his career. Even at his 2007 level, he isn’t good enough. And there isn’t much reason to think he is even that good any more. RB becomes the #1 area of need for this offense in 2010, and probably sooner.

by DaytonDogg on May 4, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think Lewis is an elite back in the league anymore, but I still think he’s useful. It’s true that raw yardage isn’t the best measurement for a running back, but neither is it inconsequential. Likewise, YPC is also flawed as a metric for judging RBs, since it’s dependent upon blocking and offensive schemes. There is no single metric which gives you an easy-to-read handle on the effectiveness of runners.

You can discard Lewis by saying that his gaining 1000 isn’t a measure of effectiveness, but then you also have to look at how long it had been before Lewis that the Browns had a back come anywhere close to those totals. I’m pretty sure it goes back to the Kevin Mack/Ernest Byner days. So…is Lewis an elite back? No. However, I still think he can be part of an effective ground game for the Browns. I agree that running back is a long-term priority for the team, though.

by drjeo on May 4, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

YPC is flawed. Raw yardage is near worthless.

And the answer to your question of what Browns player came close to Lewis’ yardage totals before he came to Cleveland: Reuben Droughns had 1232 yards in 2005. So, yes, Lewis is the best back we’ve had since… Reuben Droughns.

by DaytonDogg on May 4, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude, I know you are down on Lewis, but he is better than Droughns. C’mon. Droughns is pretty bad.

I don’t know if Lewis would accept a diminished role, but if he could get 10 or so carries a game specializing as a short yardage guy, and Harrison can get 10 carries an another 5 pass targets, we are one average NFL RB away from having a very serious backfield. Is james Davis that guy? I can’t tell yet. But it wouldn’t take a first round talent to right the ship. A very good “biggest need” to have.

by rufio on May 4, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t mind saying that Droughns is pretty bad, maybe even worse than Lewis, but that’s my point: Yardage total means nothing.

Lewis needs to accept a diminished role or retire. I mean really, if he is getting 25 touches a game, I’m going to be disappointed.

by DaytonDogg on May 4, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am convinced he can do better than last year. Still, he isn’t going to go for 2000 again (a rushing yardage marker that does mean something) and you are right: 400 carries at under 4 ypc is not at all what this offense needs. I would much rather give Harrison/Cribbs/Vickers/rookie FA out of Akron/Davis/Herron touches.

1000 yards doesn’t mean a whole lot, I agree. I think that my stance that stats rarely (if ever) tell the whole story in football is documented.

And when looking at the future of this team, Lewis won’t be good for long even if he has a little bit of a rebound this year. We should look to get a RB when we can, especially if Davis doesn’t look like a steal during the season. Eric Berry remains atop my “wants” list for next year’s draft, though.

by rufio on May 5, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with spreading out the carries more. I would like if we gave out the carries kinda like this:
Harrison-10
Lewis-10
Thunder-5
Vickers-3to5

I take it that when you say ‘FA from Akron’ you mean Bryan Williams. I think he is more of a KR/DB

Eric Berry is also on the top of my draft wants for next year

Eric Berry Bandwagon

by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 5, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i like harrison at 3 but 1 at 3rd down back. i like him alot but they kept running retard jason wright the last few years. remember that big play jerome had when he got shoved into the bench? that dude was flying, prob that fastest 100 yard runner on the team(maybe eric wright).
 heiden should play second hes tough as nails and he’ll give royal a run around for the first spot. i would like to see more of rucker too though, maybe he can be wr in a 5 wide set.
 i hope mack starts at rg for 2 years because hank is better than rex.
 st. clair over tucker? ok
i guess ratllif is really showing something in practice and is fighting for number 1 also so look out. idc who starts just whoever does the best.

GO BROWNS!!!

by charliefryfanhaha on May 4, 2009 10:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree on Harrison.

Heiden may be tough, but he is also an injury concern and getting older. Rucker’s development is one reason to tune into minicamps and preseason this summer.

Mack probably will start at C. Hank Fraley may have had a better career than Rex Hadnot, but Hank was manhandled a lot last year against good NGs and DTs. Plus, Hadnot is going to have to fend off Womack and possibly Tucker. There is more depth at RG than C, making it more likely that Mack can stay at C. The only thing that would slow him would be if he coudln’t handle line calls, but everything points to him being a very bright kid and should be able to handle the offense without much issue.

by DaytonDogg on May 4, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and it’s ridiculously early to talk about Ratliff “fighting for number 1” (unless you’re talking about his jersey number).

by drjeo on May 4, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I just ignored that comment.

by DaytonDogg on May 4, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well i heard its a 3 way race,as of the last few practices, and him being the coach’s pet prob helps some. i doubt he’ll hang on long but i guess he has shown the most accurate passes of the bunch. i heard this from a friend which is is why i say “i guess” ima look into this more right now.

GO BROWNS!!!

by charliefryfanhaha on May 5, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the real race for spot 1 at QB here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uyH9ovtdPY

GO BROWNS!!!

by charliefryfanhaha on May 5, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it might be a 3 way race in the last few practices for the #3 QB spot. I don’t think Quinn or Anderson has been at these practices.

by DaytonDogg on May 5, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly. What the Browns have been conducting so far it entirely for rookies and FAs. Cribbs has been around out of his own interest, but I don’t think he’s actually practicing. So Ratliff might be competing to the the #1 guy in the race for #3 qb.
still, I guess that’s something.

by drjeo on May 5, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea RG will probably either be Pork Chop or Tucker, not hadnot.

Ratliff wont start at QB

Eric Berry Bandwagon

by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 4, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, Fraley is old. If you are going to give up on someone, I would think it would have to be the 30+ year old who is physically limited in Fraley and not the 27 year-old who has all the physical tools in Hadnot.

by rufio on May 4, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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