2009 Bengals
by AaronD on May 21, 2009 8:40 AM EDT
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PrintIt seems each year the Steelers and even the Ravens come out victorious over our beloved Browns which forces us to cheer even harder when we play the Bengals trying to get at least 1 or 2 divisional victories.
What about this year? The Steelers are the Steelers and the Ravens are only going to get better (at least on offense); I am still waiting for all the rumors about the Ravens defense being too old and slow to compete at previous high levels but it never comes to fruition.
The Bengals are poised to start 4 new Offensive Linemen (or new to their position) which some would classify as football suicide. With a healthy Carson it seems they are not doing their due diligence to keep him protected with this move. Cutting Levi Jones (to me) was odd since he was not making an extraordinary amount in 09 – But I realize he has a problem staying healthy so this I am sure factored into the decision.
Obviously, any player can have their career cut short with one shot to the knee but Carson has been down that road already and with as bad as the team plays without him, he seems to be their only hope of sniffing a playoff berth.
So my question to all of you: Will the weak and embarrassing Browns defense be about to penetrate the newly formed Bengals OL and get to Carson this year?
I have always been a pessimistic person and I will admit I am worried about this season. Each year I approach the new season as a fresh start with an "anything can happen" attitude but this year I have a different feeling. (I know it is early) but with a new coach and new scheme I think it is safe to say the rebuilding has begun (a phrase synonymous with the Cleveland Browns)
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How are they not doing their due diligence?
I know it may look bad, and I admit it is not the situation I was hoping for (I was more expecting Collins, Whitworth, someone at center, Williams, Smith), but I can see the reasoning and I am glad they are making this decision now instead of at the end of training camp.
Whitworth- played LT all throughout college. Played LT his rookie year and did struggle some with the elite speed rushers of the league (Dwight Freeney for example). Was DOMINANT at guard last year if you ask me, which is why I was hoping he would stay. Hopefully now with more experience under his belt he will handle the LT position well.
Livings- Played next to Whitworth at LSU. Big at 335 pounds. Got a good deal of playing time towards the end of last year due to injuries along the line, Played pretty well. This is where I question moving Whitworth to LT because even though Livings showed ability, I don’t know if we are getting our best players in the field by leaving Collins on the bench.
Cook- this is going to be make or break for the o-line. Someone needs to fill the void left by Eric “Come on through” Ghiachac. Has 2 years in the system, decent size at 305 and showed promsie in the preason last year before ending up on IR. All reports from camps so far is that he has been making the right calls at least, we will see what happens when the pads get on.
Williams- A beast of a man and has been holding down that spot. No need to go into it.
Smith- I like him here at RT. He has the typical build here at 340 pounds and if there is any doubt in a players ability to play LT, don’t risk it. If he wants that position, he can show what he has at RT. If you put Williams, Smith and Reggie Kelly on the right side, that is a great place for a running back to be heading.
All and all, the o-line is going to have to prove themselves. If they can gel and get comfortable with one another and Cook works out and center, then they will be fine. I do think this will be an improvement over last year though no matter what.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
You have to admit that the Bengals are rolling the dice with making that many changes on the OL while bringing back a QB who was injured most of last year. If the line plays at league average, I think the Bengals will be improved this year. If not, it could be a tough season. The only sure thing is that both Ohio teams will be looking up at the Steelers and Ravens. Or … a miracle could occur!
I admit it’s not an ideal situation, but I wouldn’t call it rolling the dice because we don’t really have any other options. Levi’s falling apart, Eric “come on through” Ghiachac couldn’t hold up against the likes of Casey Hampton, Shaun Rodgers and Ngati (sp?), and Stacy “eat my QB” Andrews was WAY overpaid even before he messed up his knee.
Even if they have a sub-par year, I still think that this line will be an improvement over last years.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
we play 14 other games. if we win both games against the Bungles but go 2-14, who cares if we’ve gotten to Palmer both times. If we lose both games because we didn’t get to him, but we have a decent season and make the playoffs, who cares. i’m not overly concerned with any one game or team, i’d just like to see competitive football and overall improvement on D, which i think we’ll see.
I’ve said this before and i will say it again. Carson has done NOTHING since 06. It isnt a given that he will be great this year.
And Andre Smith will suck at everything besides hot dog eating contests
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 21, 2009 4:13 PM EDT reply actions
Since the reason is obvious for why he had a s@#$ty year last year, the only year in question would be 2007. A year in which he threw for his most yards in a single season, 4,131. He did throw the most interceptions of his career, but he also threw six more touchdowns than INT’s.
If thats a year of doing nothing for Carson, I hope he is our QB for a long time.
Anything on Andre Smith is speculation at this point.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
Isn’t any and everything on every SBnation blog speculation at this point?
Smith being a headcase/classic example of Cincinnati drafting a character-flagged player is based on some pretty good evidence. No doubt the kid has talent, but do you really expect him to thrive down there?
Smith's infractions
are not a good thing no, but are minor compared to some of the other players on our team and in the league.
I think the whole agent thing has gotten blown out of proportion. I will take that over a player being out at all hours of the night, getting DUI’s or getting in fights. Smith has just made some poor decisions, but I don’t think they show that he has terrible character.
Bernard Scott had 5 arrests on his record, attended 4 different schools and was academically ineligible to move up to division 1. That is WAY more of a red flag than Smith.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
I’m not saying he is the worst offender, I am just saying that he didn’t seem like an honor roll choir boy, and that you guys probably shouldn’t be gambling with any sort of character risk whatsoever.
I mean, what if Chad Johnson didn’t care about endzone celebrations and just shut up and remembered hard work got him to where he was and was grateful that he is playing with an upper-echelon talent in Palmer? What if Chris Henry was never in trouble with the law and put his heart and soul into football? Odell Thurman? You guys would be dangerously scary.
So taking any sort of risk whatsoever on Smith just doesn’t seem like the best move to me. I still have no idea how Maualuga dropped so far, which leads me to be concerned about the character rumors swirling around him, too.
Character seems to be a big issue for the Bengals, and I would just stay away from anyone who would potentially add to that problem if I were you guys. Hopefully everything just works out and you guys dominate pitt and Baltimore and lose to us a whole bunch.
I wish we would stay away from players with questionable character, but with Mike Brown always on his “redeemer” mission, I don’t think it will ever happen. Eventually though, one of these has to work out in our favor lol.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
Eventually though, one of these has to work out in our favor lol.
Or not. I can’t see that the possibilities are stronger for either. Certainly hasn’t worked out too well so far, so it’s tempting to say that things are unlikely to change.
There have been ones that have worked out in the past
Best example would be Corey Dillon. While in terms of team performance, they were not the best years, Corey certainly had a good career.
There is no denying that Smith was dominant in college, and the best point I head about everyone flipping out over his poor choices is people had not seem him on tape for so long that they forgot about that. It’s not ideal to have these questions hanging over our top draft pick, but this is still an improvement over Stacy Andrews.
Every team has player with legal troubles in the past as well- did not seem to bother the Browns when they signed Steinbach.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
did not seem to bother the Browns when they signed Steinbach.
Exactly, since Steinbach has been here he hasn’t been arrested. For whatever reason less of our players get arrested and those that do get shown the door.
Stallworth made a terrible decision and if he is found guilty (hard to see him being innocent at this point) he won’t ever play pro ball again. Kenny Wright was a chump and couldn’t even run away from the police (bad character and no talent), so we cut him. Leigh Bodden “driving backwards in a one-way zone” turned out to be a case of “cops arrest black guy in large SUV for parallel parking”. I can’t think of anyone who has been arrested for anything serious and kept on our team in recent history.
I agree with you, if Smith is a problem I don’t think it will be because of trouble with the law. I think that his errors show more of a lack of a will to finish and a lack of passion for the things you need to do to win.
Will he get arrested? I don’t think its more likely than any other player getting arrested. Will he be around the facility all the time, showing up early and going home late, studying film, eating right, and refining his technique? Not if things keep going like they are going. That doesn’t mean he can’t be good—or even great.
I don’t think as many people would even be worried about it if he wasn’t in the same locker room as guys like Chris Henry, though.
You are missing the point of the Steinbach mention- I mentioned it because he was arrested PRIOR to the Browns signing him. Yet, they still signed him.
With me what it really boils down to is this- the Bengals are the place everyone points there finger when it comes to NFL players legal issues. I am not saying it’s undeserved, but it covers up the fact that these troubles are prevelant throughout the NFL, not just centralized to one team.
Also, Henry is the only one out of all of those arrests from ‘06 that is still with the team. I don’t agree with it, but every other player has been cut.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
It was just the one time they actually enforced it
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
I know, right. Me and my cuzes are going boating this weekend and a good percentage of people on other boats do drink.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 4, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t miss the point, I meant to cite him as a case in which the player previously had a legal/character issue (as Cincy draft picks have in the past) but the previous flag has been a non-issue.
As in yes, "Every team has player with legal troubles in the past " but Steinbach hasn’t been any trouble since he has been here. That is in contrast to the Bengals, who not only bring in those types of guys, but also keep them around after they get in trouble again or even bring them back after they had been kicked off the team for repeat arrests.
There is a difference between bringing a guy in and hoping a change of scenery will do him some good, putting him on notice that a screw up will get him kicked off the team, and giving someone a second chance
versus
bringing a guy in who already has character flags, letting him get arrested several times, finally kicking him off of the team after multiple arrests, publicly stating that you have no interest in bringing that guy back, and then actually bringing him back.
Sorry for not elaborating on that earlier. It was kinda bs of me to bring him up and then not really explain what I meant.
With me what it really boils down to is this- the Bengals are the place everyone points there finger when it comes to NFL players legal issues.
I really am not trying to do this and apologize if it has come across this way. Players’ responsibility to uphold the law is their own responsibility, period. I simply think it would benefit your win column if your management wouldn’t even touch players with character/legal flags. I mean, it has got to suck getting such talented players as Thurman/Henry and then watching them get arrested over and over and never really be dedicated to your team.
Maybe your FO is doing better with that sort of thing, and as you point out a lot of the troublemakers have been cut. For your sake, I hope so. I just think that not paying enough attention to character flags is what got you in to that whole mess in the first place, and that drafting Smith, Maualuga, and Johnson looks a little sketchy. Why even roll those dice? Obviously, only time will tell if those guys pan out, but it seems an unnecessary risk, especially so soon after you guys have been burned by that sort of thing.
None of those players that did get arrested had flags going into the NFL though. Obviously the had some issues and obviously our scouting department did not do enough work to uncover them (which is likely) or did not see it as a problem.
In terms of Henry, I am just baffled on it. And I wish Mike Brown would actually talk to the media, because he would have been SLAUGHTERED that day (and if you haven’t heard, it was Brown that brought Henry back, not Marvin). This pretty much sums up Cincy’s opinion when it all went down-
http://i.tsn.com/i/photos/20080820/94950.jpg
Only time will tell if Smith and Maualuga are going to be headcases. And again, Johnson should not be in this discussion. Even if he does not give max effort, then he is only hurting himself because he will not be on the field. Replace Johnson with Bernard Scott and it fits a lot better.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
Michael Johnson is lazy and doesnt seem to be trying his hardest on a lot of plays.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 2, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
That was the knock on Shaun Rodgers too.
I don’t know how Johnson fits in to a conversation about legal troubles though.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
You woudlnt say that about Shaun if you actually watched one of our games.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 3, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not saying its true, he had arguably his best season last year, I am pointing out that when people when people were discussing where he would end up before last year, a lot of them were questioning his motor. And I watch at least two of your games a year, normally more.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
The big difference is that Rogers has tons of money and seemed to be lazy because he knew Detroit was terrible and Johnson should have been at least motivated by money and trying to make a career for himself in the NFL.
I’d say Johnson fits into the character discussion, which encompasses the legal discussion. But yeah, a little out of place.
Plus, Johnson is a much lower risk player than Smith or even Maualuga. If you keep drafting at #9 and that pick keeps not panning out for whatever reason, your franchise is screwed. If your 3rd rounders don’t always pan out, who cares? The reward if Johnson develops into a 6’7" 280lb sack master greatly outweighs the risk of taking him where you did.
“Rogers has tons of money and seemed to be lazy because he knew Detroit was terrible”- That seems like a knock on his desire for the game to me.
Any player in the NFL can fit into the character discussion. No one is excluded from that. But Johnson has no prior legal troubles and if you want to examine his character, I would first point out his is the son of a marine who served in Vietnam and a civil rights activist. He also was valedictorian of his high school (small school, but still).
And of course Johnson is less of a risk. Smith had the red flags over his head, but at this point Maualuga is a steal. His two questions- a fight his freshmen year in college (not good, but fights happen all the time) and grinding behind a reporter (stupid, but not major. Oh no! He likes grinding on girls!).
In regards to our franchise being screwed, I am a Bengals fan. I know our franchise is screwed. But our draft record since 2001 has improved of the years before it
Round 1, 2001- Justin Smith. Underachieved, but started every year he was here, and if you want to talk about a guy with a good motor, watch some tape on him.
Round 1, 2002- Levi Jones. Before he started getting injured, he was working his way towards the pro bowl.
Round 1, 2003- Carson.
Round 1, 2004- Chris Perry. Definitely the worst pick in these years.
2005- David Pollack. Never got to find out.
2006- Jonathan Joseph- So far, has done ok, still has not hit his ceiling yet. Could have a statement year this year. Did have one arrest for possesion.
2007- Leon Hall- Started off slow, but is proving himself. Recent DUI arrest, charge was reduced.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
You said that every player can be included in character discussion. Really? Make a case against Brady Quinn’s character or maybe Andre Johson.
And I have two words to describe Mauluga; Pacman Jones.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 3, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, ever single player can be included in a discussion about character- I did not say that they all can be included in a discussion about bad character. My point was is that at any given moment, you can sit down and examine your impressions on a players character. Does he do charity work? Does he work hard in the offseason? Is he here on time for meetings and workouts? But every player in the NFL cannot be included in discussion about legal issues because not every player has them.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
And please expand on how in the hell Maualuga even compares to Pacman Jones?
I have two words to describe Joe Thomas: Fish bowl.
I have two words to describe George Bush: torn underpants.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
That seems like a knock on his desire for the game to me.
Absolutely, and again, I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. That was what I was wondering about before he got here. It just seemed like Johnson had more to play for in college than Rogers did in Detroit (even if for the wrong reasons), that’s all I’m saying.
Johnson could be the son of the President for all I care. You can’t honestly tell me you thought he was playing as hard as he could at GT on every down. Maybe that isn’t how you define “character” but it still means he wasn’t playing up to his potential. He should have flat out abused some of the OTs in the ACC.
I am still convinced there is something we don’t know about Maualuga. Maybe there isn’t. If all he did was get into one fight as an 18-19 year old, you guys did get a steal. I still don’t think he dropped as far as he did because of a lack of talent, though.
I never said you guys were screwed or that you weren’t drafting well. I said that if you don’t hit on top-10 picks it significantly hurts a franchise—any franchise, for any reason. I was saying that taking a risk on your 1st rounder is usually not a good thing to do for any reason. As it gets later in the draft, the risk of not getting a great player goes down, and taking a chance on a risk/reward player is more reasonable.
In term of Johnson, never really watched any games of his at GT. Effort on the field to me reflect who a player is on the field, and while on the field can reflect a players character, the true test of who he is is how he acts off it. I don’t look at players on the field for clues to their character unless there are obvious examples (Bill Romanowski spitting in a 49ers face, Albert Hanesworth stomping on some guys head).
The fight and the reporter were all I could find on Maualuga. Maybe he had some bad interviews, who knows.
And yes, taking a risk on a 1st rounder is not ideal, but we did desperately need an OL, so I will live with it and see what happen. I was very happy I was not a raiders fan on draft day though.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
I think Monroe would have been the better choice.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 4, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I was kind of hoping for one of the two even though I was 90% sure it was going to be Smith. Oher is a great story and you have to feel good for the guy with everything he has had to overcome. Monroe I don’t know as much about other than he is more of the LT body type than Smith. At this point I would have rather seen any situation where we did not have to move Whitworth out to LT. I loved him at guard last year, he was manhandling DT’s and NT’s.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
This kind of thing isn’t going to help any. Chad “Ocho Cinco” is a headcase for sure. Makes Braylon Edwards look like Dr. Phil.
Actually, I am loving that
Carson is tired of his crap and is starting to call him out on it. Which is what people should have been doing to Chad all along. Chad just tries to have the loudest voice and drown everyone else out so no one gets a chance to say anything back. Now that someone on the team is starting to take a stand against it, the rest of the team will start to follow and not put up with Chad’s s#$@ anymore.
If the reports about what Chris Henry has been doing in the offseason are true, I personally would like to see Chad on the bench.
It's still a good season if we go 2-14 and beat the Steelers twice.
Edwards isn’t that much of a mouthpiece, if you’re referring to the Charlie Frye thing, he was yelling at the O-Line. When he grabbed Frye’s jersey he was yelling at the top of his lungs "We need to keep his Jersey Clean. I personally applauded the balls he showed there as I am very tired of our QB’s always ending up on the ground.
by North Coast Flea on May 27, 2009 6:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Does anybody else think it would be hilarious to make Ocho-Cinco wear another jersey number? Just a thought…
by tjk_doc on May 22, 2009 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
hehe…most definitely.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on May 26, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
When he was demanding a trade, I was hoping he would get traded to a team with a player who’s already wearing 85. That would have been awesome.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Our defense should be able to get to Palmer. I still don’t see anyone on that line that Rogers shouldn’t be able to manhandle. They are big, sure, but Rogers is bigger. I’d also bet he is quicker than the majority of them.
The Bengals’ tackles aren’t the most mobile, and their guards aren’t all that mobile either, meaning all four of our LBs should be foaming at the mouth if/when they are sent on blitzes.
Rogers will absolutely command double-teams versus Cook, leaving the B-gaps vulnerable and placing further stress on the OGs/OTs because (if we do it right) they will have to change directions and cover a lot of ground and use their heads, which I would think means we would be exposing their weaknesses.
If we let them pound it away on the ground or if we try to win a series of one-on-one matchups using our LBs, they would be controlling the action and playing to their strengths.
Our offense could also be key in these games. If we are scoring easily, the pressure will be on Cincy to score and they might have to pass more, freeing us up to be more aggressive. Either way, I’m not afraid of their line.
Rogers will literally eat Cook alive, and I doubt Whitworth and Smith will be quick enough to pick up the blitz. If I were Carson, I would be practice for this game by laying down and throwing lobs to OchoStinko.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on May 30, 2009 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions
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