Cleveland Browns Training Camp 2009: QB Preview (Quinn vs. Anderson Again)
To quote Heath Ledger's character from the legendary The Dark Knight, "And here...we...go."
It's Week 1 of our 2009 Cleveland Browns training camp preview here at Dawgs By Nature, where the theme will focus on the offensive attack -- quarterbacks and running backs. Today and over the next two days, we'll talk about the quarterbacks Eric Mangini has to choose from this year in camp, as well as whether we can finally put this quarterback debate to an end.
Right now, I can almost guarantee you that the majority of fans want Brady Quinn to be Mangini's choice as the starter. That is a lot different than last year. At the beginning of July last year, when I ran a poll on Dawgs By Nature asking how many fans thought Quinn should be named the starter heading into the 2008 training camp, only 18 out of 433 people gave him their approval. What happened over the past year to change everyone's opinion? Derek Anderson laid a big-fat egg.
Let's take a look at the quarterbacks that are scheduled to be in camp this season, and the position on the depth chart I expect them to hold initially...
1. BRADY QUINN - STARTING QUARTERBACK
Brady Quinn (#10)Height: 6-3
Weight: 235
College: Notre Dame
Experience: 2 years
Note: 3 career NFL starts
After a collapse to the Baltimore Ravens last year with a below average 3-5 team record, Crennel finally yanked Anderson from the starting lineup. In a short week, Quinn made his first start of the season against the Denver Broncos. Quinn played very well, completing 66% of his passes and tossing two touchdowns. Unfortunately, after a late defensive collapse, Quinn was unable to muster a game-winning drive.
The following week, in a much less impressive performance, Quinn picked up his first and only career win at the NFL level against the Buffalo Bills. Shamefully, Quinn broke a finger against the Bills. He tried to give it a go one week later against the Houston Texans, but something was clearly wrong with his game. Quinn and the offense stalled against the Houston Texans, with Quinn tossing two costly picks. Quinn did not play for the rest of the season, but he did win over the hearts of may Browns fans with the potential he showed.
Worst Attribute: Lack of Experience - Two years in the NFL for a team that hasn't made the postseason, and this first-round draft pick basically sat on the bench? Thanks a lot, Romeo Crennel. For all of the training and preparation that Quinn had from Notre Dame's "NFL-like offensive system", that potential sure went to waste. The experience factor is a huge disadvantage for Quinn because Mangini has no obligation to utilize a first-round draft choice that he was not responsible for selecting. Quinn was not a star in training camp last year, so he will have to step his game up to make an impression on Mangini this year.
Best Attribute: Mobility - This should be the factor that ultimately results in Quinn getting the job over Anderson. Anderson was outstanding two years ago when the offensive line protected him well on every play. When the pass protection broke down last year, so did Anderson. Quinn, on the other hand, does a better job evading pass rushers. Even a quick side-step, followed by an accurate short throw (jab at Anderson), is enough to provide Quinn an advantage in an offense that will put more emphasis on the short passing game.
Various Concerns / Comments - To be fair, you can't blame Crennel for starting Anderson last year; after all, the guy came off a Pro Bowl season. Nonetheless, Crennel just never seemed to show enough respect for Quinn, to the point where he almost seemed sickened to play him. I know we're under a new regime now, but Anderson had his chance last year and blew it; if we waste Quinn's talent on the bench much longer, before you know it, his contract will be up and he won't have a proper evaluation on him. I expect Quinn to have a lot better chemistry with Brian Robiskie and Mohamed Massaquoi in training camp than Anderson too, which will play to his advantage if the rookies can't handle Anderson's errant short throws.
Job Security: B
Player Quality: B
Final Roster Odds: 99%
2. DEREK ANDERSON - BACKUP QUARTERBACK
Derek Anderson (#3)Height: 6-6
Weight: 229
College: Oregon State
Experience: 4 years
Stats: 9 TD, 8 INTs (2008)
I still consider myself a fan of Anderson. There is even a part of me that believes that with the right coaching in the right system, he would be a better quarterback than Quinn.
Here's the problem(s) for Anderson though: (1) We're not running an offense suited for him, (2) the offense we are running specifically seems to play against Anderson's strengths, and (3) we don't have the same player personnel Anderson had two years ago.
Worst Attribute: Carrying a Team - Last year, the primary weakness I listed for Anderson was "middle zone throws". This year, I'm listing a broader weakness, something of which is often affected by those middle zone throws: his inability to carry a football team. Braylon Edwards was awful last season. Jamal Lewis was pretty bad last season. Jason Wright made an awful play every time he was in the game. The offensive line was shaky. Through all of that, a quarterback can be defined on whether or not he can put the team on his shoulders and keep them in the game.
How many comeback victories do you remember Anderson having? After our defense worked so hard last season in several games keeping some of the better offenses in the league to a minimum of points, how many times did Anderson strike with a game-cushioning score? In both cases, I'm sure the answer is zero. Now, compare that to the number of times you remember the game on the line and Anderson being involved in a play that sealed our fate (in a bad way), and you'll see why Anderson relies too much on the talent around him to be successful.
Best Attribute: Arm Strength - Anderson has zero touch, but man can he throw a football through two or three defenders like no other quarterback. That's an advantage when you have big targets who run effective routes 20-30 yards down the field.
Various Concerns / Comments - Practice after practice last season, we kept hearing about Anderson throwing the deep ball to Edwards in training camp. I expect a lot less of that this year, and a lot more of hearing about how our rookie receivers are struggling to hold on to Anderson's short passes because they are either too fast or off-target. Again -- it's just not the system for Anderson this year. As a backup quarterback though, I cannot complain. That's where Mangini will have to be the person who makes the adjustments and plays to Anderson's strengths in a situation where Quinn needs to leave a game.
Player Quality: B-
Final Roster Odds: 90%
3. BRETT RATLIFF - EMERGENCY QUARTERBACK
Last year, a young quarterback named Brett Ratliff was the No. 3 quarterback the entire season for the New York Jets. He wasn't even the best "Brett" quarterback on the team though; that title would've belonged to starter Brett Favre.
We can't go off of much in terms of Ratliff's abilities. I recall seeing him face the Browns in the preseason last year, and he did leave enough of an impression to the point that I knew who he was as soon as Mangini acquired him in the big draft-day deal in April. Ratliff had two bowl victories during his college career at Utah:
| Stats | Passing | |||||||||
| YEAR | CMP | ATT | YDS | CMP% | YPA | LNG | TD | INT | SACK | RAT |
| 2005 | 48 | 77 | 642 | 62.3 | 8.34 | 48 | 8 | 2 | 4 | 161.47 |
| 2006 | 228 | 391 | 2796 | 58.3 | 7.15 | 57 | 23 | 9 | 14 | 133.19 |
At the very least, Ratliff should be an upgrade over last year's disaster of a third-string quarterback in Ken Dorsey. Ratliff's arm strength might not be the strongest, but it got old making jokes about how any of us could throw the ball better than Dorsey had. Here is what a Jets' fan had to say about Ratliff back in December; I picked this quote because it seemed to be a sentiment that many Jets fans shared:
[Ratliff] has a smooth throwing motion and has increased his accuracy tremendously from college. He has a strong arm (nowhere near Cutler but strong enough). Ratliff has excellent pocket presence and moves around in the pocket well. Not a scrambler. Doesn't get much depth on his drops due to inexperience in taking snaps under center as opposed to in shotgun (ran spread in college), but this will correct over time, especially with actual game reps. From limited observation in the preseason he makes good decisions and has excellent accuracy on his touch passes. He perfectly looped quite a few passes over the heads of linebackers this preseason.
Here's some footage of last year's preseason game against the Browns, if you don't remember:
Final Roster Odds: 80%
Practice Squad Odds: 5%
4. RICHARD BARTEL - PRACTICE SQUAD ELIGIBLE
Richard Bartel (#13)Height: 6-3
Weight: 230
College: Tarleton State
Experience: 2 years
Note: No career stats
Last year, the Browns only had three quarterbacks in camp. Thankfully, it looks like we'll have a fourth this season to make things interesting. Bartel actually joined the Browns late last season in November. He was signed to the practice squad after Quinn was placed on the injured reserve. He was then promoted to the 53-man roster for the final game of the season after Ken Dorsey was placed on the injured reserve.
Bartel had a little stint in the MLB farm systems (excerpt from Wikipedia):
Bartel was drafted as a pitcher by the Cincinnati Reds in the 14th round (516th overall) of the 2001 Major League Baseball Draft.
He appeared in one game for the Gulf Coast Reds in 2001 and pitched a shutout inning. The following season for the GCL Reds, Bartel allowed 19 hits, eight runs (five earned) and four walks with nine strikeouts in 14.1 innings. He finished his career with a 1-1 record and a 2.98 earned run average in eight games.
Bartel had some work in camp last year with the Dallas Cowboys, but he didn't receive anywhere near the same glowing remarks that Ratliff did with New York fans. If Bartel makes the team, it'll be due to an injury. Mangini didn't have Ratliff thrown into the draft-day trade for nothing. In a scenario of Anderson being traded, I can't imagine Bartel jumping up to third-string either. He's an arm in camp with an outside chance to draw some praise; nothing more at this point.
Final Roster Odds: 5%
Practice Squad Odds: 25%
QB Position Quality (Overall): B-
I overestimated our quarterback rating last season, giving our guys a cumulative "A" heading into training camp. After Anderson's off-year, Quinn still not having a lot of NFL experience, and both quarterbacks having to learn a new system, it's only fair that I pull back.
Feel free to weigh in on the quarterback debate here, especially your feelings on how you would react if Mangini ends up choosing Anderson to start over Quinn. Don't forget to check out our training camp preview schedule; and if you'd like to contribute a piece this week, send me an email with your idea at pokorny@pfcritics.com.
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53 comments
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Comments
Doesn't matter
First off, fantastic work on the quarterback report. Keep up the good work for the rest of the series (no pressure no pressure haha)
Given that it is Mangini’s first year and it’ll be his Browns offense, I can only presume that the quarterback he picks will be the one best suited to his offense, not necessarily the best quarterback as a whole. Quinn and Ando are really two contrasting footballers, like you said. Though, I wasn’t part of the group that criticised Ando last year. When the whole offense isn’t performing it gets into your head. Confidence is a very big thing and he lost a lot of it last year.
Finally, as for me, no fanship comes into play. Quinn or not, the big Ws are the most important thing.
by skipkirk on Jun 21, 2009 1:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
NIce work, agreed. I think your right Chris, this offense, the way Mangini wants to run it fits Quinn better than Anderson.
I want Quinn, however I want wins. I just think Quinn gives the Browns the best opportunity to do that. Quinn appears from the outside looking in a more capable leader.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 21, 2009 9:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In the related fanposts section, I looked at the Quinn out for the season post and I loved NotJoey’s one word response.
Anyway, how does Bart only have a 25% chance of making the practice squad? Someone needs to QB for them. I still wish we would have signed Harrell.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 21, 2009 11:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m a fan of which ever QB is going to perform
successfullyfor the Browns. I’m going to trust Mangini’s decision, whatever it ends up being.
As for Harrell, I also kind of hoped he’d turn out to be good pro QB, but my guess is that he actually turned out to be just a product of the system at Texas Tech.
2009 Prediction: Att - Yds - TD
Jerome Harrison 95 - 532 - 8
by Simmsinns on Jun 21, 2009 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Damn it, that supposed to be bold, not block quoted. Clicked the wrong shortcut, and kept typing. >.<
2009 Prediction: Att - Yds - TD
Jerome Harrison 95 - 532 - 8
by Simmsinns on Jun 21, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t count Harrell out just yet. You can be a product of a passer’s system and still become a very good pro qb. I remember Unitas kicked around for awhile before finding a home in Baltiimore. With the shortage of steady qbs in the NFL, I have to think somebody will give this kid a shot at some point.
by elsandito on Jun 21, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Graham Harrell is no Johnny Unitas. He’ll get his shot, but then he will promptly do what every other TTU quarterback does in three years- flame out.
by gahnki on Jun 21, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should have said that, as great a career as Unitas enjoyed, he didn’t get his shot as a job immediately. You never know where the next HOF qb is coming from.
by elsandito on Jun 24, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is a huge year for these guys.
If DA gets the chance to play and shows us he is closer to the player we saw in 2008 than the one we saw in 2007, his stock as a professional will be plummeting. Not only will his future not look good with us, teams will have contract leverage on him and he probably won’t be able to sign a big deal with anyone.
If DA is showing us what he showed last year (50.2 completion%, 5.71 YPA, 66.5 rating, balls that go nowhere near receivers, etc.) and Brady still isn’t starting, we have to think we are back to the drawing board at QB—a scary thought.
Quinn is in pretty much the same “play well now or your days are numbered” position as Anderson. It sounds like this offense is built for him. He’s been holding the clipboard, working on his guns, studying NFL defenses, and getting ready for a few years. He is playing for the team he watched as a child. The city is solidly behind him. If he can’t do it now in this offense, with a great LT/LG, a promising C, and five or so veterans to fill two spots on the right side, with plenty of promising receivers, we will have to question if he can ever do it.
Hopefully, either of them takes firm control of this job and never looks back.
by rufio on Jun 22, 2009 12:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how DA will handle second string. Will he demand a trade?
by gahnki on Jun 22, 2009 12:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting thought. Personally, I don’t think it’ll present a major problem. With the way injuries ravaged QBs last year, there certainly can be potential for a backup in this sport.
Lets say he does though, I’m curious where he might fit as a starter and what that team might offer us…
2009 Prediction: Att - Yds - TD
Jerome Harrison 95 - 532 - 8
by Simmsinns on Jun 22, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have each play a half, and alternate that scheme from week to week, get some bang for my buck. At this point, I don´t want either long term, so I need to raise their value before I trade them. They both will start somewhere else, so I´m interested in selling a Browns product.
by mooncamping on Jun 22, 2009 7:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a bad idea if you are talking about playing each for a half in the regular season. A really bad idea
by Roger Dorn on Jun 22, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least he’s consistent.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Jun 22, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
yep. There’s probably a reason that nobody does this. It’s a sure path to chaos.
by drjeo on Jun 22, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you don’t want either of them, but acknowledge that both would be starters elsewhere. Is there some logic to this that escapes me?
by drjeo on Jun 22, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, no huge logic. But is there logic to keeping the two of them guessing?
Besides, I want Jimmy Clausen Jr.
I would also really appreciate either Jared Zabransky or David Carr.
by mooncamping on Jun 22, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jared Zabransky or David Carr? Who are you really?
by Roger Dorn on Jun 22, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would make you think that any of these guys would be better than (or even as good as) Quinn or Anderson? Not to mention that there is usually at least a 2-year learning curve for NFL quarterbacks. I just don’t see it.
by drjeo on Jun 22, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well one held on to his starting position through five seasons, and is doing a terrific job keeping Eli Manning on his toes. And the other one had to be Madden cover cursed, and traded to the Steelers, so they could cut him out of the NFL, he also led Boise State to an undefeated record and got everyone so excited they painted the field blue.
by mooncamping on Jun 23, 2009 6:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoops, I meant to add, held onto his starting position in Houston through five horrible losing seasons, and shook off more hits than anyone in the history of the NFL.
by mooncamping on Jun 23, 2009 6:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So being the QB on a terrible team and taking hits qualifies someone as a good QB? I want Charlie Frye back!
by Roger Dorn on Jun 23, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But is there logic to keeping the two of them guessing?
A couple of things come immediately to mind:
1) the competition could push both of them to play better. Since neither has been assured of the starting role, they have to go out and prove that they deserve it. Granted, this could also lead to their pressing, which is why most NFL teams name a QB before training camp. But there are valid reasons to think that competition can bring out the best in them. Also, it’s a good chance to find out if they can stand up to the pressure of intense scrutiny, something that definitely comes with the job.
2) All we actually know right now is that we’re guessing. It’s possible that DA and BQ are being given regular evaluations of their performance, even relative to one another. Maybe the coaching staff is keeping them guessing (see #1), but maybe they’re not so much. How would we know?
by drjeo on Jun 22, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good points and common sense there.
But I have two other points (more like assumptions):
1. Both have been hurt. Love and loyalty requires trust and commitment. They´ve gotten neither consistently.
2. Both have failed in Cleveland, and both are expected to redeem themselves. They´re feeling three strikes you´re out, except that one man´s trash/discards are another man´s treasure, and we all know it. They have the ability to shine somewhere else.
by mooncamping on Jun 23, 2009 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quinn has not failed. He has played in 3 games
by Roger Dorn on Jun 23, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. I think we need to just start ignoring this guy if he’s going to keep making blatantly false statements like this. He’s either trying to start fights or he has no idea what he’s talking about.
by Buckeye Brad on Jun 24, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ignorance is bliss. Also, thank you for misrepresenting me. I don not seek fights, I seek arguments.
by mooncamping on Jun 29, 2009 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides, I want Jimmy Clausen Jr.
I would also really appreciate either Jared Zabransky or David Carr.
This has to be a joke. Is this the douche from Baltimore Malox or something like that?
by Bernie19Kosar on Jun 22, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There isnt even a Jimmy Clausen jr. There is only a Jimmy Clausen. Im pretty sure this guy is a ravens fan.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 22, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone advocating for David Carr and Jared Zabransky is off his rocker.
by Roger Dorn on Jun 23, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow. really one of the least good ideas in sports history, if i may say so.
perhaps only exceeded by your suggestion that jared zabransky (seriously?) or david carr would be a better browns qb than the 2 on the roster now.
we’re on, like, “punk’d: the sports blog edition” or something, right?
by DontCallMeJoey on Jun 22, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
System & Neighbours
It’s been noted that theses two have different styles- DA is the downfield bomber ideally suited to partner a power running game, BQ more of a west-coast balanced offense guy. We have to play the bullying defenses of the Ravens & Pittsburgh 4 times every season.
Whilst the Cleveland line IS looking very promising, I’d still rather be running the BQ-suited offense than the DA one for 25% of our games every season.
DA would slot right into the old 500 passing yard shootouts of the old AFC East- Marino & O’Brien especially.
by LondonBrown on Jun 22, 2009 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A tough running game should work for any style of offense
by Roger Dorn on Jun 22, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A play action bomb style offense depends on it, shorter west-coast style can use the pass to free up the run.
I think you have to face the fact we’re in a division with two awesome defenses. And I doubt they’ll be changing style anytime soon.
by LondonBrown on Jun 22, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that’s not particularly the point. Any style of offense should theoretically work with the right mix of talent and coaching. If the coaches wanted to keep the Air Coryell system then DA would be the starter for sure. But Mangini’s system is probably better suited for Cleveland’s weather and division which would make Quinn the better option.
It doesn’t matter what style the opposition’s defense runs as much as it does fitting the talent into the offense. If the Browns run what they’re running better than the opposition, things will go well. No matter what that system may be.
by gahnki on Jun 22, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
shorter west-coast style can use the pass to free up the run.
This doesn’t have to be the case, although a lot of the notable West Coast offense have done this (present day Philadelphia and the classic 49ers teams)—so you do have a good point.
Also, the story is that the West Coast offense dominated the 46 defense (which Baltimore sometimes runs) out of prominence. So some West Coast concepts (spreading the field horizontally, quicker/shorter passes) could help us against them.
I like what Mangini and Daboll have said about being a flexible offense. Things like “if we need to run a lot to win, we’ll run. If we need to pass a lot to win, we’ll pass”, etc. Saying it and doing it are two very different things.
by rufio on Jun 23, 2009 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PS
Nice article by the way- always good reading here.
Cheers!
by LondonBrown on Jun 22, 2009 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It´s from a to b to c. The point is to get the ball moving beyond the line of scrimmage as soon as possible. The center, point a, snapping the ball back behind the line of scrimmage is a compromise so the quarterback, point b, can achieve the second objective, moving the ball across the line of scrimmage not only as soon as possible but also as far as possible, utilizing runningbacks and widereceivers or himself, all representing c.
Not trying to be a wise*** here, but if everyone is invisible, what do you want to see the ball doing? The quarterback waiting to throw it, is also a compromise not the start all end all. It´s a compromise so the go to guys can get into situations, that are more advantageous, to moving the ball beyond the line of scrimmage as soon as possible and as far as possible. If the defense knows, that it is your objective to move the ball across the line of scrimmage as soon as possible and as far as possible utilizing several possiblities (big fullback, shifty halfback, surprising quarterback, tricky receivers), the offense can use the ensuing chaos to proceed in a more orderly fashion.
by mooncamping on Jun 23, 2009 6:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It is my goal to score and win. That is the goal with or without me, whether I accomplish it or not. The goal is and remains to score and win.
The objective however is move the ball across the line of scrimmage as soon as possible and as far as possible, every play. The objective does not remain, it dissolves if I don´t achieve it. It is every time all the time.
Such is the discipline I require from my offense. Maintain the goal (scoring and winning), pursue the objective (move the ball as soon as possible, as far as possible).
by mooncamping on Jun 23, 2009 6:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve gotta think you’re putting us on here. If so, nice job. If not …..
by drjeo on Jun 23, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jared Zabransky is your first clue
by Roger Dorn on Jun 23, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know. His post makes no sense whatsoever
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 23, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see where he’s going with this. Think Sun Tzu as a football coach. Football has been referred to as war by many coaches. Moon is trying to codify the techniques of winning football in his mind.
This is a helpful way to view the game because we get caught up in the details and rules and the sights and sounds of the game. Moon presents his version of the abstract.
by elsandito on Jun 23, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly can’t wait to see what he comes out with next.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Jun 24, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said above, I think we all need to just start ignoring this guy until he starts making some sense. I think he’s just having fun with us — he cannot seriously believe some of the things he’s saying.
by Buckeye Brad on Jun 24, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“I think we should just start ignoring this guy…here´s your kool aid everyone, here have my fantasy player…”
by mooncamping on Jun 29, 2009 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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