Cleveland Browns Training Camp 2009: Defensive Line Preview (Part 1)
After covering quarterbacks, running backs, and fullbacks last week, it's time to move "Down into the Trenches", our Week 2 training camp preview theme.
We started last season with a promising defensive line of Robaire Smith, Shaun Rogers, and Corey Williams -- all three of whom were supposed to be above average or better. We ended the season with Rogers and Williams still playing, but Rogers was the only one who made any real noise. In a 3-4 defense, that's not going to cut it.
Today, we review the starting defensive lineman. There are only three spots to fill, but I've included four lineman since one of the positions is set for a nice training camp competition.
1. SHAUN ROGERS - STARTING NOSE TACKLE
He's big, he's bad...he's Big Baby Shaun Rogers. If there was one bright spot in last year's dismal season, it would have to be the fantastic play of Rogers. He was the most consistent player on either side of the ball. Gone were the criticisms of his days in Detroit, when he was considered "lazy". To be fair, Rogers did appear sluggish in Detroit, meaning that same mentality could kick in at some point with Cleveland. For now, let's just hope it doesn't.
Worst Attribute: Can't Play Every Down - This is obviously more of a weakness related to the rest of the Browns' defensive line. It was just baffling to see how much of a dropoff we would suffer when Rogers was not in the game; third-string running backs would start tearing us up for 100+ yards in just one half of action. Rogers' does require time off though to stay fresh and be effective by the time the fourth quarter comes around, which is as close of a weakness I can come up with without being too analytical.
Best Attribute: Commanding the Double Team - With only three defensive lineman in a 3-4 defensive scheme, you need a nose tackle who requires a double team. Fellow division rivals Casey Hampton of the Pittsburgh Steelers and Kelly Gregg of the Baltimore Ravens have been stable for their respective teams. When the Browns first went to the 3-4, who did we have? Jason Fisk? Ted Washington? Acquiring a player like Rogers was a necessary risk, and it paid off, at least for one year. Rogers makes it possible for everything else to fall into place, specifically for our defensive ends and our linebackers. This year, we'll see if Mangini and Ryan are able to get Rogers' supporting cast to play at a higher level.
Various Concerns / Comments - Nobody was getting to the quarterback last year except for our 350 pound nose tackle. Rogers and Mangini initially got off on the wrong foot, but from all of the recent reports, it seems that the two have genuinely made up to each other. Another special aspect of Rogers' game is his ability to block field goals, something he did at least once for the Browns last season.
Job Security: A+
Player Quality: A+
Final Roster Odds: 100%
2. COREY WILLIAMS - STARTING DEFENSIVE END
Corey Williams (#99)Height: 6-4
Weight: 320
College: Arkansas State
Experience: 6 years
Stats: 50 tkls, 0.5 sacks
He's...he's...he's...well, I guess you can say that he is no Shaun Rogers. There is a far gap between the production level of our No. 1 linemen (Rogers) and the No. 2 linemen (Williams). And, Williams is really only rated at No. 2 due to the production he had prior to coming to Cleveland last year.
Williams was a sixth-round draft pick in the 2004 draft by the Packers. (Side note: Boy, are the Browns the only team in the NFL that can't find a breakout d-linemen in a later round?) After Green Bay franchised him last year, he was dealt to the Browns for a second-round pick. The deal seemed great on paper -- we got a potential Pro Bowler for a draft choice; draft choices are often hit-or-miss. The only concern was whether Williams could transition to the 3-4 defense. How'd he do...?
Worst Attribute: Not a 3-4 Guy - ...obviously not good enough. After recording back-to-back seven sack seasons with the Packers as a defensive tackle/defensive end hybrid in their 4-3 system, he just looked out of place with the Browns. It was probably a mistake by the Browns to not move him around more often, or to not run a few plays similar to the ones he ran in Green Bay. Instead, he seemed like the Kamerion Wimbley of the defensive line; it's not working, but rinse and repeat again and again.
Best Attribute: Durability - After our defensive line was banged up in general last season, Williams was able to provide some stability by starting all 16 games, something he has now done for three consecutive seasons. While Williams' play wasn't great, it was average enough so that it probably would've been better than some of the other players on our roster. Williams also played through most of the season with a bum shoulder.
Various Concerns / Comments - Williams has been quoted as being intrigued by some of the new things Ryan's 3-4 scheme brings to the table. With his shoulder doing better, hopefully Williams will be able to make the jump from average to Pro Bowl caliber once again.
Job Security: B+
Player Quality: B-
Final Roster Odds: 100%
3. KENYON COLEMAN - POTENTIAL STARTING DEFENSIVE END
Acquired by the Browns via our first first-round draft trade this past April, Coleman begins the point where there is really a big question mark as to who will start at the other defensive end position. Right now, the two biggest players in the competition are Kenyon Coleman and Robaire Smith.
Coleman came over from the New York Jets, where he spent two seasons with Mangini. Two years ago, he had 83 total tackles; last year that number fell to 55 tackles. As his numbers seem to match the general scouting report I've been reading about Coleman, he excels more in run defense than he does at rushing the passer (but that's what Wimbley and company are supposed to be for, right?).
Coleman won't be a tremendous player, but he can be a fair asset in a proper rotation at the defensive end position.
Player Quality: C+
Final Roster Odds: 99%
4. ROBAIRE SMITH - POTENTIAL STARTING DEFENSIVE END
Robaire Smith (#98)Height: 6-4
Weight: 310
College: Michigan State
Experience: 10 years
Stats: 4 sacks in 2007
Considering how Williams played last season, a healthy Robaire Smith has the potential to be the second-best defensive linemen on the team. I loved it when the Browns signed him two years ago, I loved how he played during the entire 2007 campaign, and I continued liking what little I saw from him in 2008.
As we all know, Williams ruptured his Achilles' tendon in Week 2 last season, ending his season. He's been rehabbing ever since, which is the reason he's not listed as a definite starter. Besides acquiring Coleman for depth, you have to imagine that Mangini wanted him as insurance in case Smith was unable to return as a full-time starter. While there aren't a lot of reports to go by, the consensus seems to be that Smith will be ready to return and participate in training camp.
At the top of his game, Smith excelled at the defensive end position for us -- and that was without having Rogers at the nose tackle position. Given the choice between a healthy Smith and Coleman in a competition, I would pick Smith in a landslide. This will be more of a wait-and-see thing though; if things go terribly wrong and Smith just doesn't look healthy enough to play, I suppose there is an outside chance he could be a surprise training camp cut. I won't back on that possibility though.
Player Quality: B+
Final Roster Odds: 95%
DT Position Quality: B (Starters/Contenders Only)
NOTE: Tomorrow I will have Part 2 of the defensive line preview, where depth players C.J. Mosley, Shaun Smith, Louis Leonard, Ahtyba Rubin, Adam Hoppel, Santonio Thomas, and Melila Purcell will be covered.
With the talent gap between Rogers and Williams and the uncertainty of Smith's health, the "B" grade is a very loose projection. While it sounds positive, it is not the dominant rating a 3-4 unit like the Ravens have achieved -- far from it. From the list of players to be covered tomorrow, Mosley and S. Smith had the best shots at being included in today's article. S. Smith has some starting experience with the Browns, and Mosley also came over from the Jets. However, since S. Smith has been a locker room nuisance and Mosley was a backup in New York, barring a training camp injury, I don't see either player competing for a starting role. That doesn't mean they or some of the other players on the list won't play near-critical roles in terms of depth, however...
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28 comments
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Comments
On Shaun Rogers
Best Attribute: Commanding the Double Team
Mate, he can take a triple team as well. Countless times I’ve seen it and it’s just so sickening that while he’s taking 3 guys at once, others still won’t get to the QB.
Let’s hope it changes this season.
Yes, I see what you’re saying here. The Browns have been so deprived of defensive linemen since returning to the league (or have been full of busts), that when someone does well, I just feel inclined to call them above average. If I look at the broader picture with what other teams have, Smith is probably just average.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Jun 28, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless you were trying to say that he’s better than above average ;)
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Jun 28, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
A couple of thoughts on Corey Williams:
I think a lot of his drop in production last year had to do with how he was coached. Not even scheme specific stuff, just in general. I don’t think he was motivated last year, I don’t think he was in shape last year, and I don’t think the coaches pushed him enough last year. He has to be better if our defense is going to be good.
In my opinon, it starts with his weight. I remember being pleasantly surprised to hear he was up at 320, but he gained too much fat and not enough muscle to get there. What made him good for Green Bay was that he was quick for a 300lber. Losing some of that excess mass might help him play at a higher level.
Its not like we asked him to exclusively two-gap last year. Especially in our Nickel packages, he was lined up as a 4-3 DT, and he was asked to stunt and attack like a 4-3 DT would be, so he should have at least looked like a decent player when we went to a 4 man line if the adjustment to the scheme was the problem.
I am encouraged that the two DEs we acquired from the Jets are a little leaner than Williams. Hopefully that means Mangini wants his linemen a little more in shape than Romeo did, or at least wants them to be able to be a little more athletic. If he and Ryan truly want to be a “multiple” defense, they need 3-4 DEs who can play like “3-technique” DTs in a 4-3 (think Darnell Dockett or Sedrick Ellis). I think that type of guy will be up there with a rush LB/DE and a Safety on our offseason wish list next year.
Couldnt agree more. You could also add RB to our offseason wish list next year.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 28, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont even know if LB will be a need because I have confidence in Hall and Veikune
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 28, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be awesome to see either of those guys step up and be able to rush the passer. I still think you can’t have too many of those kinds of guys in a hybrid scheme or a pure 3-4.
The problem is that even if Veikune and Hall are both as good as we can hope, I still don’t think they are in Ware or Merriman’s class. We really could use that kind of freak LB. Hopefully, I am wrong and they both turn out to be monsters. I don’t think I would count on it.
I still think that RB, DE, and SS might be bigger needs
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 29, 2009 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think I am going out on a limb here, but Kenyon Coleman will start. He’s a Mangini guy that has had a history of success. Based on Rob Ryan’s comments about Williams and Robaire, I think it’s clear they are counting on Coleman to start
Yea, I’m still not convinced Robaire will be healthy for training camp.
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 28, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s true. The achilles tendon rupture surgery appears to be one that modern medicine still hasn’t perfected. I was a big fan of Julian Peterson with the 49ers, and since coming back from rupturing his achilles, he hasn’t been the same IMO.
Things like the degree of success of the surgery and the severity of the injury probably play a big role in all of that, but it doesn’t sound like as sure a bet as an ACL at this point in time.
Out of Williams, R. Smith, and Cman we should have at least 2 good starters
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 28, 2009 7:05 PM EDT reply actions
I hate SS, I would rather play LL
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 29, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s because he rocked your homeboy in the face
by Roger Dorn on Jun 29, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He could hit anyone in the face on our team and I would dislike him. Plus, he sucks
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Jun 29, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
One of the few things I like about S. Smith is that he seems to play with a chip on his shoulder on gameday. I like that he is confident and I feel like we get a high amount of effort from him during games.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem like he carries that attitude over to the offseason, refining his technique, and developing speed/explosiveness.
This. Dude may be a prick, but he has some serious physical skills. That’s enough for me to want him on the field over guys like Leonard and maybe even Coleman.
by Ryan Kelsey on Jun 30, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions

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