Cleveland Browns Training Camp Report: Day 11 - Off the Shoe

by Chris Pokorny on Aug 12, 2009 10:34 PM EDT in 2009 Training Camp Comment 27 comments

The Browns are getting ready for Saturday's first preseason game against the Green Bay Packers. The number of training camp practices for the public are going to start dwindling, but a few will still be there as the regular season approaches. Today, there were more updates on the injury front as well as the latest word on how the quarterbacks are doing.

TRAINING CAMP REPORT - DAY 11 (8/12/09)

Braylon Edwards - Undisclosed Injury is Back: After several outstanding practices for the Browns No. 1 receiver, Edwards rode the stationary bike after initially coming out for practice. The Plain Dealer is reporting that he tweaked his ankle in one-on-one drills early in the practice and then had it taped up by a trainer. It doesn't appear to be serious at this point.
Toothache for Davis: The mystery surrounding the whereabouts of rookie RB James Davis was solved when Mangini revealed he had a toothache and has had some dental work done.

LB David Veikune was all over the quarterbacks Wednesday with three sacks.

Breaking Out for Veikune: Rookie LB David Veikune had a great practice, getting pressure all afternoon long. Dawg Scooper reports that he was playing middle linebacker with the second unit and ended up recording three sacks.
Tight Ends Utilized: The Browns might not have an elite group of tight ends, but they are doing their best to utilize them in practice. TE Robert Royal caught two touchdowns in goal line 11-on-11 drills -- one from Anderson, and the other from Quinn. TE Steve Heiden caught a touchdown pass earlier from Quinn, and TE Martin Rucker came up with a diving catch on an Anderson pass. While rolling to his left, Anderson also hit TE Aaron Walker for a nice completion.
Shoe Job: For the second practice in a row, the playing time of QB Brett Ratliff increased. There was an unusual play that occurred during one of his series though -- in an attempt to throw the ball down to the dirt to stop the clock, the pass accidentally hit the foot of RB Noah Herron instead. The ball then bounced up into the air and was snagged by S Nick Sorensen, who took it the distance for a touchdown. On the day, Sorensen picked two of Ratliff's passes.
Making His Claim: CB Roderick Hood has been getting progressively better on the Browns defense, coming up with another interception in camp today, this time on QB Derek Anderson. The play wasn't necessarily Anderson's fault, as it was first tipped by WR Jordan Norwood.

DB Roderick Hood returns an interception here. Also pictured is WR Joshua Cribbs. Both players have been picking it up in camp.

Still Behind: Rookie C Alex Mack is still behind veteran Hank Fraley it appears. With Rex Hadnot down still, Fraley's roster spot seems to pretty much be guaranteed at this point.
Trickery: WR Joshua Cribbs ran a reverse for a ten-yard gain with Anderson as a blocker. This note was kind of interesting from the OBR's Twitter feed: "Browns ask media not to give up specifics on specialty or trick type plays - but the packages on stunt drill is intriguing."
Bubble Watch: This is a note just in general from the OBR regarding LB Beau Bell: "he hits a ton moving forward but lateral quickness is below average." With Davis still out, RB Noah Herron continues to make a strong case for being on the final roster. I'm really starting to believe that Herron will make the team as the backup fullback/fourth running back. He's not a bad player and he has some veteran experience. With RB Jerome Harrison also not practicing, RB Jamal Lewis and Herron got all the running back reps. CB Hank Poteat was burned by WR Brian Robiskie for a touchdown.
Stepping Up: It's getting repetitive, but that's a good thing in this case: once again, WR Joshua Cribbs had a good practice as a receiver. It doesn't sound like he's seen any work in the secondary this camp, but from what it sounds like, we won't need him there.

The Browns will have an afternoon practice again on Thursday.

Wednesday's Links/Camp Sources

Wednesday 8/12 Practice (Dawg Scooper, Wolf)
Lane's camp notes, Twitter style! (Orange and Brown Report, Adkins)
QBs debunk cheating story (Akron Beacon Journal, Ridenour)
Wednesday evening camp notes (Orange and Brown Report, Taylor)

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Comments

HAHAHA Ratliff got picked off trying to spike the ball lol wow

by kjc on Aug 12, 2009 11:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

As dohior(sp?) would say “That’s the kind of luck the browns need.” Ha.

by SpecialBrownie on Aug 12, 2009 11:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

haha my thoughts exactly.

by kjc on Aug 12, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You see that as unlucky. Again i see it as lucky? It wasn’t the Vikings the picked it off, it was the browns Defense that got the pick, so maybe he is giving are defense some luck we need that also…

by dohior on Aug 13, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You beat me to the dohior comment. haha

by Brownie's Year on Aug 12, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Luck can rub off on are defense!!! God knows, we need luck on both ends. GO BROWNS

by dohior on Aug 13, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s nice to hear about Veikune stepping up and having a good practice.

If he is physical enough to take on guards or if Bell can make the roster, we could have a lot of flexibility as to what we do with our ILBs. We could run more of the same stuff or do more slanting/stunting with our DL, use Veikune/Bell as a “Jack” linebacker, and DQ as the Patrick Willis/cleanup guy.

It would basically involve either of the bigger, more physical ILBs (Veikune/Bell) just slamming in to guards or fullbacks to take the lead blocker out of running plays, and letting Jackson eat the running back—almost like Bell or Veikune would be lead blocking for Jackson.

I doubt Barton is big/physical enough to play the “Jack” role, and someone who could might have a better shot at making our defense “multiple” and thus making the final roster.

by rufio on Aug 12, 2009 11:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I like that role for Bell. From what I have heard he he can HIT!

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Aug 13, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sounds like Braylon will be sitting out the preseason game on Saturday then. Thanks again for the great recap of practice. Keep up the good work.

by Overlord1976 on Aug 13, 2009 12:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The linebackers are not to engage blockers. They make tackles. There is no need to invent a game, so big and slow guys can play.

by mooncamping on Aug 13, 2009 8:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice. But unfortunately some people (namely the opposition) don’t want our linebackers to make tackles.

by skipkirk on Aug 13, 2009 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

linebackers are not to engage blockers?

How are linebackers engaging blockers inventing a new game? That game has been around and has proven successful. Just look at the top two defenses in the NFL, which are in our division as you all know, and you will see perfect examples. Ray Lewis doesn’t play at the high level he is still able to if it weren’t for Bart Scott taking on the lead blocker, opening up the lane for Ray to make the tackle time after time. All it takes is for the linebackers to play unselfish, not always looking to make the play by themselves, but play as a team and open it up for someone else by taking out that lead blocker. Plus, if the defender does not engage the blocker, he will be thrown to the ground every time, which I think may have happened to our defense just a couple of times in the past.

by Dawgs Bite Back on Aug 13, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Linebackers engage blockers all the time. Especially in Mangini’s system. If an inside linebacker cannot handle being blocked and working off blocks then he simply cannot play for this defense.

by gahnki on Aug 13, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have a sneaking suspicion someone is prepping Veikune for a 4-3 middle linebacker slot. He was scouted as one of them outside linebacker/defensive end hybrid types, and as such there were more highly regarded guys in the draft, allowing us to get him late in the second round. I hope there isn´t a plot to use him as a middle linebacker, as a better Maualuga so to speak.
When you check the roster on clevelandbrowns.com someone made it a point to list him as OLB, why is that? It should be obvious he´s a little bit large for 3-4 inside linebacker.
The Browns play a 3-4 eternally, I hope no one thinks otherwise.

by mooncamping on Aug 13, 2009 8:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I have a sneaking suspicion someone is prepping Veikune for a 4-3 middle linebacker slot. … The Browns play a 3-4 eternally, I hope no one thinks otherwise.

uhhh…where, exactly, to go with this one… as you point out, the browns play the 3-4 (eternally, apparently), so who, precisely, would be prepping veikune to be a 4-3 middle?

by DontCallMeJoey on Aug 13, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We’re obviously working a trade here…duh.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by Chris Pokorny on Aug 13, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe for another fullback!

by Buckeye Brad on Aug 13, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

1. Veikune and Maualuga are not similar players because of their Pacific Islander heritage.

2. There is no size limit for any linebacker. Obviously, a 300lbs+ guy would probably be used better elsewhere, but Veikune isn’t ridiculously big for the position, in fact I’d say he has pretty close to ideal size. It wouldn’t be that Veikune is “too big” to play ILB, it would be that he is “too slow”. If you could make tackles sideline-to-sideline and were fluid enough to sift through the trash and smart enough to be an ILB—but you weighed 280—you’d still probably do well at ILB.

3. He’s probably listed at OLB because that is one spot where Mangini is giving him work. He said he gave very little thought to the depth chart, and I am guessing he meant it. Veikune ideally would be able to play ILB, OLB, or DE when we went to a 4 man line.

4. Mangini and Rob Ryan would love to be “multiple” enough to run a hybrid 4-3/3-4 scheme, and I bet they’d tell you that. Even Romeo had us in 4 man fronts almost every weekend.

by rufio on Aug 13, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you could make tackles sideline-to-sideline and were fluid enough to sift through the trash and smart enough to be an ILB—but you weighed 280—you’d still probably do well at ILB.

To back Rufio’s point…

Kirkland was 300 plus and went to Pro Bowls. As an ILB.

by Bernie19Kosar on Aug 13, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is a large man.

by rufio on Aug 14, 2009 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

1. I didn´t say that. But since you are making it a point, let me ask you? you don´t think Polynesian athletes are coveted for their traits and attitudes? You would ignore the fact that these guys are scouted and targeted because they are naturally big and strong, and that exactly that is a source of pride for them? And if you were to compare Veikune and Maualuga, you would say it´s apples and oranges? Apart from comparing them based on their genetic heritage, I would however say that they do compare based on the intangibles, bullishly strong and mobile within a small designated space. And I would think that as outside linebackers in a horizontal NFL speed game, which is having a rennaisance, they would both fail, because they are not nimble, they are not quick, and they would lose the race to the sidelines to any average NFL runningback. So, why are they similar players, then?
2. I was differentiating between the duties and obligations of a middle linebacker as compared to an inside linebacker. I think from Pop Warner, through High School, through College, and into Professional Football, we all have an understanding of what we expect a linebacker to do, namely to be the most dominant player on the field, not in a three or four point stance. I think most football afficiandos would argue that speed and mobility are prerequisites for playing linebacker as much as strength and toughness. If unusual athletes are considered linebacker, I think you would also agree, that that is only due to a certain imperative, called for due to matchups and playcalling and not due to outstanding overall ability or versatility. A 280+lbs. guy in the defensive backfield is not a linebacker, it´s a defensive line player trying to be a linebacker. He must be enabled to look good. A single middle linebacker may be bigger and stronger, because he may have to shed a few blocks to get to the ballcarrier, and you don´t expect him to drop back into pass coverage. Inside linebackers can be smaller, because they can take angles and are not expected to make solo tackles. They´re compactness aids them in evading blocks and dropping back into pass coverage.
3. We are not going to a 4 man line. Veikune is too small and weak to outside contain as a DE, and too slow and cumbersome to cover his area to the outside as an OLB. He may also not be very adept at playing MLB, because he has never played it. They wanted a hybrid, they got a hybrid.
4. If they told me that, I would run home and cry.

by mooncamping on Aug 14, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know I´m hard core, but in regards to the 3-4 or 4-3, I would be like Achilles, burn the boats. Burn all bridges. You need to know, what is required, to decide your fate. For the Browns, I hope that fate is the 3-4, no daliance. No player worth his salt, that is destined for a 3-4 will want to come to Cleveland to play, if the type of player required for a 3-4 is in limbo.

by mooncamping on Aug 14, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Glad, to see, that you, still, got, it, moon,,,

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Aug 14, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You would ignore the fact that these guys are scouted and targeted because they are naturally big and strong, and that exactly that is a source of pride for them?

Here’s the (probably racist) problem with that: not all Polynesian/pacific islander guys are big and strong. They certainly don’t all play the same style of ball, and they certainly don’t all have the same strengths and weaknesses. Saying polynesian guys are all big and strong is like saying all black guys are fast: it’s just incorrect.

I grew up in Hawaii, and there were plenty of big Polynesian guys, but there were also Polynesian guys who were smaller than the Asian kids. My neighbor was Polynesian and 6’6" but very long and skinny.

Veikune is much more fluid than Maualuga. He changes directions better, has better pass rush moves, but doesn’t hit as hard. Veikune is quite “nimble” for a guy who played DE and NT in college. The only real similarities between them are that they play in the AFC North, they have good motors, and they are Pacific Islander. You didn’t mention either of the first two, so there was really no reason to compare him to Maualuga in the way you did.

I think most football afficiandos would argue that speed and mobility are prerequisites for playing linebacker as much as strength and toughness.

Yes, but you can be both big and fast. Being a big guy does not prohibit you from being fast.

A single middle linebacker may be bigger and stronger, because he may have to shed a few blocks to get to the ballcarrier, and you don´t expect him to drop back into pass coverage.

This is completely incorrect. MLBs in schemes such as Tampa’s (at least through the 2008 season), Indianapolis’, and anyone else who runs a large amount of Cover-2 will want their MLB to be able to drop quite deep in to zone coverage. Check out Indy’s LBs: they are all tiny and fast.

Some teams who use a 3-4 will want one of their ILBs to be a very, very physical guy to basically “lead block” for the other ILB, so the smaller, faster ILB can make tackles. ILBs are expected to do a huge variety of things, which differ from scheme to scheme, and stereotyping them as people who “aren’t expected to make solo tackles” is completely ridiculous.

We are not going to a 4 man line.

Every team who runs a 3-4 runs at least some 4 man line. If you were a Browns fan as of last year (don’t know when you switched teams), you would have seen it a lot. It will happen.

Veikune is too small and weak to outside contain as a DE, and too slow and cumbersome to cover his area to the outside as an OLB.

Have you read any of Mangini’s comments on Veikune? He has praised him for being agile and able to change directions easily. If he is already playing LB, odds are he is not to slow or cumbersome to do what is asked of him at DE. His stoutness at the point of attack is a legit concern, but we usually go to a 4 man line for our nickel/dime packages, not against the I or other running formations.

AND

Veikune might not even be one of the guys with his hand on the ground—or even on the field—when we go to a 4 man line. Last year, the line was Wimbley, Rogers, C. Williams, and McGinest. Hall could put his hand on the ground, as could Bowens and maybe Titus Brown (but I have not watched him play at all so I can’t say).

You seem to be really down on “hybrid” guys in general, but you are ignoring their success in the NFL. Merriman is a hybrid. Ware is a hybrid. Richard Seymor is a hybrid. Darnell Dockett is a hybrid. Trent Cole is a hybrid. Terelle Suggs is a hybrid. James Harrison is a hybrid. Justin Tuck is a hybrid. These guys are all over and they are causing a lot of trouble for offenses. You can think that everyone on our defense besides Shaun Rogers just doesn’t have talent—that’s fine—but the hybrid as a concept clearly works in the NFL.

If they told me that, I would run home and cry.

Lace up your running shoes.

by rufio on Aug 14, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, but you can be both big and fast. Being a big guy does not prohibit you from being fast.

Lebron James

by Roger Dorn on Aug 14, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i myself am cautiously optimistic about this year. it seems to me that we have more talent on this team, in all position groups. i don’t think that we have seen the best out of our qb’s yet, even anderson. i am excited to see how this all plays out, at least we have three decent qb’s. our defense looks better, but i need to see how well we stop the run, that will be key.

i am so happy to have found this site, i’d rather discuss browns football with folks that can have an opinion and discuss it without being chastized by non football thinking hacks. thanks for the insight, coverage and for being browns fans.

GO BROWNS!!!

by athensdawg2 on Aug 13, 2009 9:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’m optimistic too, but only because it would be hard not to after last season. I would definitely enjoy seeing some sorta improvement. And anyway, it’s football. Hard not to get excited.

by skipkirk on Aug 13, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs