Cleveland Browns Training Camp Report: Day 26 - The Final Session

by Chris Pokorny on Aug 27, 2009 11:09 AM EDT in 2009 Training Camp

The Cleveland Browns wrapped up training camp Wednesday with their final public session of the year. Fan attendance had died down the past couple days (not unusual), as the team prepares for the Tennessee Titans this Saturday. It's do or die time for players who are "on the bubble".

TRAINING CAMP REPORT - DAY 26 (8/26/09)

Tucker Missing Again: The random injuries/absences with Ryan Tucker continue to appear, making it seem more and more unlikely that his body will hold up to ever be a full-time starter again. Tucker was no where to be seen during the final practice. S Brodney Pool still remains absent.
Edwards Slipping: After catching everything in sight the first few days he participated in training camp, WR Braylon Edwards is starting to revert to old habits with a couple of drops each practice. He had at least two drops Wednesday. He also lost his shoe on one of his catches.
Play of the Day: A highlight play came when QB Derek Anderson threw a deep pass down the left sideline. RB James Davis made a one-handed catch after beating his defender. WR Lance Leggett also made a nice grab when he dove near the sidelines on an Anderson pass.
Two Minute Method: When Anderson kept throwing to James Davis in the two-minute warning against Detroit, things didn't work out. QB Brady Quinn ran the two-minute offense Wednesday and led the team to a 37-yard field goal by Phil Dawson. He got down there mainly by throwing four passes to RB Jamal Lewis. He also threw two passes to TE Martin Rucker.
Picked Off: CB Eric Wright intercepted a psss by QB Brett Ratliff, continuing upon his impressive camp. Ratliff did complete a deep pass to WR Brian Robiskie over DB Gerard Lawson though. Ratliff also worked the two-minute offense and led the Browns to a Dawson field goal.
Tight End News: With starter Robert Royal riding a stationary bike, veteran Steve Heiden pulled in a sideline pass from Brady Quinn with LB D'Qwell Jackson in coverage.
Brownies: Mangini said that Quinn and Anderson will both trade off opportunities this Saturday, with some of their reps going into the third quarter. Joshua Cribbs was acting like Vince Young for the scout team offense.

Wednesday's Links/Camp Sources

Battle for starting center position still unresolved (Cleveland Plain Dealer, Cabot)
Seemingly no urgency for Rogers (Akron Beacon Journal, Ridenour)
Training camp log: Day 26 (Cleveland Plain Dealer, Cabot)

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"CB Eric Wright intercepted a psss by QB Brett Ratliff, continuing upon his impressive camp."

If Wright can continue to grow into a defensive play maker, our defense would grow immensely. I hope to see some more big plays from Wright as we go into the regular season.

If only it was '95 again...let's go Tribe!

Don't hate on D.A., you would suck too if your only target had brick hands.

LeBron the time is now, get hungry and get goin.

Also, Munch is BA.

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by mackAttack5 on Aug 27, 2009 1:05 PM EDT reply actions

Opposing offenses already try to avoid Wright a lot of the time. I’m not sure he’ll get the chance to be a “playmaker” if he keeps getting better: they just won’t throw at him at all.

Hopefully, unlike Mel Tucker, Rob Ryan will at least occasionally move Wright to the other side of the field when the opposing offense’s best WR goes over there. If he is covering the other teams’ best WR all game, they will have to throw at him.

by rufio on Aug 28, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Great game boss !!!

Go Jamal

by Jamals6082 on Aug 27, 2009 9:19 PM EDT reply actions

I really hope we got the steal of the draft with James Davis. I love what I see and hear so far. Go Browns!

by Overlord1976 on Aug 27, 2009 10:41 PM EDT reply actions

I’m continually discouraged about our offensive line depth. We’re one or two more injuries away from being right back where we were last year.

I get excited thinking about our cornerback potential and growth. I cringe when I think about our safties if Pool is out for any period of time.

I like James Davis. A lot.

And finally, I wish we would just get a decision on a QB. I’m pulling for Quinn, but even if it ends up being DA, I wish Mangini would just pick one. The valuable reps that are being lost for the eventual starter (to the eventual loser) are doing nothing to help build chemistry between QB and receivers. I just hope he makes a decision after the Titans game.

by Onyx Lightning on Aug 28, 2009 1:03 AM EDT via mobile reply actions

I agree with most of this.

But not on the O-Line. I think there is still a lot of depth there.

by Ryan Kelsey on Aug 28, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions

Had the exact same thought.

by danvail on Aug 28, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions

How do injuries to Hadnot and Tucker (both who could be out for extended time) not make you feel uneasy? I’m not a pessimist, just thinking realistically since we aren’t even out of the preseason.

by Onyx Lightning on Aug 28, 2009 4:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

They expect Hadnot to be back game 1

by Roger Dorn on Aug 28, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions

So what about the report today that says he is unlikely be ready for game 1?

by Onyx Lightning on Aug 29, 2009 10:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Game 2 then.

by Roger Dorn on Aug 30, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Do you really expect Mangini to give anything to the media in terms of injuries?

by rufio on Aug 30, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions

I see Davis starting late this season, if not sooner. My hat is off to Jamal, but it looks like he has lost some of what he once had. I think our O-line is improving with much talented depth added this offseason.

by tjk_doc on Aug 28, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions

you guys need to name Quinn the starter

at this point, the biggest danger is seeing DA perform really, deceptively well in a preseason game and letting that seduce the coaching staff back into starting him. People just need to sober up about DA, realize that he’ll dazzle you sometimes and baffle you other times, and just go with Quinn to see if he has what it takes.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
--George Orwell

by jackmca on Aug 28, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions

I think you’ll find this opinion shared amongst a very large portion of both users on this site and Browns fans in general.

by danvail on Aug 28, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Not all of us though.

by Brad D on Aug 29, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions

You really think DA is better than Quinn? Why? We’ve seen what Anderson is, why don’t you want to give Quinn a chance to start a few games and see what he can do?

by Buckeye Brad on Aug 29, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions

I think the opposite is the case. If Quinn performs deceptively well, the irrational bias in favor of him on the part of most fans will gather force. I think it’s true that DA can dazzle at times, and this is why he’s better than Quinn.

All that said, if Quinn shocks me by being better than mediocre, I will be dee-lighted.

by DPS on Aug 28, 2009 12:07 PM EDT reply actions

I couldn’t care less what the fans feel. And I’m pretty sure Mangini doesn’t care either.

I keep going back and forth on this though:
1.) Does Mangini have a decision already and just doesn’t want to announce it?
2.) Or is he just waiting to have his decision bolstered by a few more practices and preseason games?
3.) Or is he really unsure on who is the best QB on his team?

My biggest fear is that #3 is the right answer. I’m hoping it is #1.

by Ryan Kelsey on Aug 28, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions

i’ve hoped, and sort of assumed, that it was #1 … but the fact that both quinn and anderson are going to see significant time with the 1st team makes me very nervous that it’s #3. all-in, i’m lost.

I reserve the right to complain about Gimenez at 1B and Carroll in the OF, no matter the facts. - FredOx

by DontCallMeJoey on Aug 28, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions

but the fact that both quinn and anderson are going to see significant time with the 1st team makes me very nervous that it’s #3.

I think you just answered your own question, you’re just afraid to realize it.

You should think about trading one of these guys for Tyler Thigpen at some point. I’m serious.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
--George Orwell

by jackmca on Aug 28, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions

What would Thigpen do? Give us another mediocre QB to compete with our remaining mediocre QB???

by Ryan Kelsey on Aug 28, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Please, please no Pigpen

by Roger Dorn on Aug 28, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions

you'd dump one of your mediocre QBs for him

just a thought. boy your situation is a tough one right now though. Mangini’s gonna have to pick one of these guys, and if that choice doesn’t do well, he’ll be questioned for having made the wrong decision when it may still have been in fact the right decision all along.

it ain’t pretty

"I know where you're at, man. You had it all, and now it's gone. It's torn a hole in your soul bigger than my Escalade. So you turned to the drugs, the alcohol. Pornography, free-basing with OJ, human trafficking, dog fights slash orgies... darkness."
-- Craig Robinson as Reg Mackworthy in Season 1, Episode 5 of Eastbound & Down

by jackmca on Aug 28, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Tyler Thigpen? What makes you think he can do something? I honestly don’t remember Quinn having as terrible of a game as you guys make it sound. In all honesty, it comes down to a NFL football game. It’s about field position and clock management. Whoever wants DA, is getting a QB that can’t throw a five yard pass. Instead, we gotta throw a bomb to a guy that couldn’t catch a cold last year, of course that’s Edwards. I would much rather control the game with Quinn’s short ACCURATE throws. He also proved he can throw it deep ( innnersquad game), it’s just not his first option.

by The naome40 on Aug 28, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions

You are overstating Quinn’s accuracy. Last year he completed 50.6% of his passes. That’s not any better than DA.

by Brad D on Aug 29, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions

You cant really count the last game he played because he was playing with a broken finger

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Aug 29, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions

Sample size!

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Aug 29, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions

He only played 2 1/2 games and he was injured part of that time. That’s like complaining about a hitter’s OPS after three weeks of the season. Sample size matters — you know that.

by Buckeye Brad on Aug 29, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions

If you look at the film, it is pretty clear that Brady is more accurate than DA with one caveat: when Quinn loses the strike zone, he can’t hit the broad side of a barn.

That’s 2ish throws per game, whereas DA is really inaccurate much more often.

I’ll give it to DA: he almost led us to the playoffs and got us 1 of 2 winning seasons since we’ve been back. But I really, really don’t think that you can call him more accurate than Brady.

by rufio on Aug 30, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions

I have a feeling that we’re gonna see either

1. Both QBs play at the same level.
or
2. One of the QBs plagued by poor OL or WR play (or a defense that can’t get off the filed and let them on).

The first option will leave us no closer to realizing who the starter will be by virtue of the fact that there will be no differentiating factors and the second will leave us playing the what-if game.

Oh that we could get this issue resolved so that my ulcer could concentrate on others.

by JustBob on Aug 28, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m going with a mix between 1. and 2.

I think it’s like a race. I think someone is leading, but there are still a few laps to go, and Mangini doesn’t want to call the race before someone crosses the finish line.

He also knows that Minnesota is a very good team and if they don’t know who our QB is they will have to game plan for 2 different guys and 2 different offenses, and that is going to give us a solid competitive advantage for the first week.

I would feel more comfortable with a choice by now, but I am willing to trust Mangini for at least half a season.

by rufio on Aug 28, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Are you serious? The few times we’ve seen a healthy Quinn, he’s been very good. The many times we’ve seen a healthy DA, he’s been “good DA” for about 35-40% of the time.

There is an irrational bias for Quinn amongst Browns fans, but it exists a lot more on cleveland.com than it does here, and many of us still favor Quinn at this point.

by rufio on Aug 28, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Quinn hasn’t ever been “very good.” His best game he went 23-35, 239 2 TD. That’s good, but it isn’t exactly world beating. He followed that up by going 14-36 and 8-18 (when he was hurt) in his next two games.

We tend to polarize this debate in favor of whichever guy we like. Quinn is supposedly more accurate but only completed 50% of his passes last year. DA has the big arm but his Y/A was less than a yard more than Quinn’s last year. The fact of the matter is that neither of them have played enough in the NFL to have proven anything. (Drew Bledsoe was the mirror image of DA his first three years and turned out well enough and Quinn has only played four games).

What bothers me is when either side says something to make their choice sound better than he is. These are (for now) two unproven, mostly mediocre, quarterbacks.

by Brad D on Aug 29, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

well put fwembt

by North Coast Flea on Aug 29, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions

I would agree only with a stronger emphasis on the unproven part, and less emphasis on mediocre. I don’t like referring to unknowns automatically as mediocre.

by Roger Dorn on Aug 29, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Sample size!

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Aug 29, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions

But we don’t know ANYTHING about Quinn yet. It’s way too early to say he’s mediocre.

Did you want to give up on Luis Valbuena in July this year? His hitting stats were pretty bad the first half of the season, but he’s improved in the second half as he’s gotten more playing time and more experience. How is Quinn any different?

by Buckeye Brad on Aug 29, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Quinn was marching our offense wherever he wanted to go against Denver; he looked very, very good. He also got hurt early in the Buffalo game, so he wasn’t healthy for all of that 14-36.

Stats are not going to tell this story; Quinn is more accurate in general, and DA has gone deep with more success than Quinn. Quinn’s decisions are consistently better over the course of a game. Anyone watching the games would agree.

Higher YPA doesn’t necessarily mean stronger arm. For example, when the offense was built around Quinn last year, we had bootlegs designed to utilize his strengths and to get receivers yards after the catch. The only positive play I remember Stallworth ever having for us was a play action bootleg to the right, where Stallworth went in motion and acted like he was going to block down on Denver’s RDE. Instead, he and Quinn slipped out to the right. Quinn delivered a short, accurate pass with some touch and Donte took it for a bunch of yards.

An accurate passer can put the ball in places to give his receivers good YAC and doesn’t necessarily have to throw a lot of deep balls to get a good YPA.

by rufio on Aug 30, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions