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Around SBN: The End Of Sabanball: Details, Barbarians, And Precision

Greetings from MileHighReport - A few good questions with the Broncos Blogger

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Greetings Browns fans!  Guru here from Mile High Report welcoming you to the start of the 2009 NFL Season and Broncos/Browns week. 

We know these two teams have a storied past, but times are different now with both teams, and the fans of each, trying to re-establish themselves in the NFL.  Much has changed for the Broncos since their trip to Cleveland last season.

So, got a Broncos question?  Fire away!   I'll check back in regularly to get those questions answered! I'd appreciate a REC so that the post can stay at the top for the week!

It's always fun when the Browns and Broncos get together.  Here's to a great week of cross-blogging and to a great game on Sunday!

This is a fan-created post. Dawgs By Nature assumes no responsibility for the content listed.

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Do you anticipate the Broncos’ OC to keep the offense under wraps on Sunday so as not to give away too much? This would be in anticipation of the two teams meeting again in the AFC championship game.

by elsandito on Sep 15, 2009 8:45 AM EDT reply actions  

ANSWER

We can only hope, can’t we??

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

1. How much of Knowshon Moreno’s poor week one performance is injury related? Did he look hampered, or did he just get shut down?

2. After seeing them in person, how strong do you feel the Bengals defense will be this year?

by danvail on Sep 15, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions  

3. How strong is the Denver OL? Can we get a brief breakdown?

by danvail on Sep 15, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

ASNWER

The Broncos O-Line is solid. They are trying to do a few different things under Josh McDaniels, but once they fully understand the offense they’ll be fine. Ryan Clady and Ryan Harris are two of the best tackles in the game, Casey Wiegmann is coming off a Pro Bowl season and Ben Hamilton/Chris Kuper are solid a Guard. Kuper is coming back from an ankle injury that kept him out last week, but he will try and practice this week.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you guys still zone block a high % of the time against the Bengals? I would assume McDaniels would change that, but that system had been good to you guys for a long time.

by rufio on Sep 15, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmm

there was a stat on this in the denver post recently. Zone is still in there, and it’s somewhere close to 50/50 – I forget which side.

by tunesmith on Sep 15, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Denver is ZBing a little over half of the plays.

This is about the same ratio as they’ve always done, so it is still in play. (Most ZB teams run the ZB anywhere from 50 to 70 percent of plays, and all teams will ZB here and there).

"Greater is an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by a sheep" Defoe

by Steve Nichols on Sep 18, 2009 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

ANSWER

1. Moreno needs to get reps and lots of them. After briefly holding out in Training Camp, Moreno went through 3 days of practice before playing the first Pre-Season game in San Francisco, where he lasted 3 plays. In other words, Moreno just hasn’t gotten a lot of work, practice or otherwise. Moreno admitted last week he is only at 80% so he should get better as he get healthy, and the Broncos are going to give him as many opportunities within the game plan as possible.

I will say that Knowshon looks to be a little overwhelmed right now, but I expect he’ll get better as he gets more comfortable.

2. I’ll say this about Cincinnati’s defense – they are much faster this year than in the past. With Roy Williams in the back, and Rivers and Maualuga at Linebacker they fly around and are physical. How good they will be long-term remains to be seen but they seem to be buying in to what Mike Zimmer is trying to do.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cincy's D:

Having watched the Bengals play in two games now (the Broncos game and the preseason NE game), I have been thoroughly impressed with how physical they are. They hit hard and are fast to the ball. I think Rey may be the steal of the draft. I think that they are a good defense.

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Sep 15, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Rey was really impressive

Everytime he would make a big hit I would think “we could have drafted him when we moved up in the 2nd”. Then A Smith would make a huge paly and I would think “well, I’m glad we didn’r because we wouldn’t have Smith”. Both of those guys were steals for 2nd rounders.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

1) Knowshon didn’t look hampered and he claims to be 100% this week. I think his struggles were due to him missing time because of the injury. He seems to still be adjusting to the game speed of the NFL.

2) I think the Bengals D will be strong again this year. They looked good against us, only giving us 3 decent drives the entire game. They had a mental lapse on the last play of the game, but other than that they were stout. I’m not sure if they will crack into the top 10 as a D this year but it’s possible. I think they are right around that 12 spot they earned last year though.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

How did you guys keep the Bengals to only 7 points?

Did Brandon Marshall look like he knew the playbook?

by rufio on Sep 15, 2009 11:51 AM EDT reply actions  

ASNWER

1. The Bengals did a lot of it to themselves. A chip-shot field goal that blew up because of a bad snap. Dropped passes and ill-timed penalties. It appeared, however, that as the game went on the Broncos got stronger, while the Bengals wilted a bit. The Bengals started having success when they spread the field, forcing the Broncos to play more zone. For most of the game the Benglas were in a 2-1 set(2 TE’s, 1 RB) and the Broncos were able to get to Carson Palmer.

2. Brandon looked a little lost out there to be sure. Despite that, he led the Broncos with 4 catches and had at least 2 drops. The Broncos are still looking for #15 and I think he could have a big game this week.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t understand how Cincy isn’t in a 3+WR set at least 75% of the time.

by rufio on Sep 15, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s like when Romeo was coach, don’t waste brain power trying to figure out the why.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 15, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Romeo was the main reason I failed math.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 15, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

How did you end up as a Cavs and Broncos fan?

by Roger Dorn on Sep 15, 2009 12:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, that’s a good question.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 15, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Add Indians fan and Browns fan to the question too.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by Chris Pokorny on Sep 15, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

ANSWER

Great Question.

Let’s see, I was born in Pittsburgh and lived there until I was 5. That was way back in the 70’s, and in some chemical way probably adopted my dislike of the Browns then. Neither of my parents were huge sports fans, so I took to myself to find favorites. As a 6 year old, it was probably colors, logo, etc.

AS long as I can remember I have cheered for the Broncos, and the rest of the Cleveland home teams. Of course, things were very interesting during the late 80’s with all of the AFC Championship Games(my High School years).

When the team was stolen from you, part of what was special was lost and I still don;t feel it has returned. Browns fans deserve better.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

How much did Marshall play/How much do you think he’ll play vs. Cleveland?

Did Orton look competent?

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 15, 2009 2:19 PM EDT reply actions  

ANSWER

Marshall looked like a guy that hadn’t really practiced or played in months. His timing was off and he looked to be thinking more than just playing the game. As I said above, he was still able to lead the team in catches and the Broncos will keep getting him involved. I think he could have a big game this week.

As for Orton, the finger is definitely bothering him. He had the stitches removed yesterday and the hope is, as he gets healthier, he’ll get more comfortable. Sunday was a huge hurdle.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Orton looked like Orton to me.

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 15, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Solid analysis there.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

My 2 cents

Orton looked competent…the play calling lacking to me. The offense was getting stifled quite a bit by the dink-and-dunk plays being called. We had a couple medium range passes that looked good to TEs, but it seemed like we kept going back to the short game.

I’m hoping the offense starts opening up more as the weeks progress. It should be much more open with Marshall getting comfortable and our running game getting going.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Sep 15, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

…the play calling lacking to me. The offense was getting stifled quite a bit by the dink-and-dunk plays being called. We had a couple medium range passes that looked good to TEs, but it seemed like we kept going back to the short game.

Whoa. Are you talking about the Denver game or the Cleveland game?

Seriously, though, it looked like an even trade of sacks with Cincy. So, was it two good defenses, two poor O-lines, or something in between?

by JustBob on Sep 15, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

well...

It’s definitely not two poor o-lines, because Denver’s is largely unchanged from last season. They had one injury substitution. So I’d like to think it’s because of two good defenses.

by tunesmith on Sep 15, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was definitely a defensive battle

Both offenses looked rusty though (several dropped passes by both teams). Cinci has a very good D though and Denver’s D is immensly improved from the 29th ranked version from 2008.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just sayin; Cincy does NOT have a great D

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's why I said very good

They were 12th in the league last year and they have added some more talent from then.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

They cant pass rush

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Define “12th in the league”

by rufio on Sep 18, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was using the Defensive rankings that the NFL uses

They are based on yards allowed. They gave up fewer yards than all but 11 teams in the league last year.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 19, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Points per game is a better stat. In that they were 19th. The Browns were 16th.

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Sep 19, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Orton

To me, Orton looks a bit over-tentative in throwing downfield. Brandstater and Simms were more willing, and they know the system less than Orton does. But then again, maybe that’s because they know the system less than Orton does. We still don’t have a good idea of what McDaniels’ offensive system is going to be, given that it was so shut down by drops last week.

by tunesmith on Sep 15, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did Peyton Hillis play much? After watching what he did last year, I think he has the potential to be very good in the NFL.

by Legoman0721 on Sep 15, 2009 2:58 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

He didn't

This one frustrating thing about McDaniel’s offense — RBBC. They seem to game plan from week-to-week and Hillis wasn’t in the plan for running the rock week 1. I agree though, he looks likes a real bruiser RB from what he did last season.

I don’t want breakaway speed. I want break-some-poor-fool-as-I-bowl-you-over power getting 6 yards off a play that should have been stopped for 2 at most.

by sadaraine on Sep 15, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

ANSWER

Hillis wasn’t as big a part of the offense as I thought he was going to be, but some of that, well most of that, has to do with he fact the Broncos couldn’t stay on the field offensively. I think it hurts Hillis’ effectiveness to be lined up 5 yards deep and handed the football. He is best when moved around the field, lined up in different spots, and given the ball in space. Because the offense struggled so much, they never really gotten in the rhythm they were looking for, thus Hillis wasn’t a factor.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

They just weren't giving him the rock

I saw him blocking on several plays, but his # just wasn’t called more than a couple of times. Our back-up FB got hurt right before the game though so many people think that Hillis being our only FB available was the reason we didn’t lean on him more last game.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Other than QB, what do you feel are the Broncos biggest weaknesses?

by danvail on Sep 15, 2009 3:30 PM EDT reply actions  

I would say easily mid-range pass coverage. Our LBs haven’t seemed to handle pass coverage well so far (probably because so many of them are converted DEs). I have a feeling that we’re going to struggle all year in covering TEs and RBs slipping out of the backfield. We seem to handle RBs receiving in the flats just fine, but the middle of the field hook routes get us.

I think you’d be surprised how many Broncos fans don’t consider QB a ‘weakness’. We may not consider it a strength…but not really a weakness either. Our biggest offensive weakness is a lack of time playing together. Orton missed the last two weeks of preseason. Marshall and Moreno missed most of the preseason. Many other players missed various time due to minor injuries. All that missed time really showed in Cincy. I’m hoping things start to come together this week.

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Sep 15, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another reason that we struggle with those mid-range routes is because we’re a blitz-happy team. Teams keep hitting quick hot routes against us…sometimes for big gains.

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Sep 15, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think time will tell on Orton. Denver fans probably feel much the same way as Browns fans do about the strength of the QB situation at the moment. It could be worse. It could be better.

by danvail on Sep 15, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that’s a fair summary of where Broncos fans stand on Orton.

I think McD wanted a ball control QB who is accurate on short and mid routes and is able to limit mistakes. Orton seems to fit that bill. I think McD’s concern with Cutler was that he is always looking for the big play and is prone to bad decisions (as seen in the Sunday night game). McD prefers long sustained drives that keep the defense off of the field. While we didn’t see that on Sunday…I don’t think you can blame Orton for that. He was the victim of a LOT of dropped balls and lethargic play from the players surrounding him.

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Sep 15, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

TBH, Orton makes a few too many mistakes.

But if your LBs cant cover, BQ will be lighting up the middle of the field.

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 15, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Orton
TBH, Orton makes a few too many mistakes.

Not compared to our last QB.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you prefer Orton to Cutler?

Why did Chicago give up so many picks if Orton is better?

by Roger Dorn on Sep 18, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly I wish Cutler would have wanted to play for us

But he didn’t. So I would rather have Orton (who wants to give his all for us) than a malcontent Cutler. Orton gets the job done though. It may not be pretty but he’s a winner in this league (22-12 as a starter). Sure, straight up Cutler is more talented than Orton. But Chicago overpaid IMO. I would much rather have Orton, 2 1sts, and a 3rd then Cutler and a 5th. Especially considering Cutler’s attitude & tendency to turn the ball over too much.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please dont bring up the winning record of a QB. We had a 700 post argument with Steeler fans who said Big Ben was the best QB because he is a “proven winner”

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly,

and not to detract from your observations PBag

I believe we are struggling with our tackles. there were WAY too many misesd tackels that I counted against cinci that would have stopped them so much quicker. I was extremely dissapointed by that.

I would also say that SO FAR…and this should change soon….our run game appeared to be MUCH weaker than it should be. I am sure people will disagree but I’m putting the kool-aid down for this response. I think we are much improved in almost every area (except QB) but those are the areas I’m concerned with.

Tackels and running. (thought the run game WILL improve when knomo gets the hang of NFL speed and Hillis gets a fair share of carries.)

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison

"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble

by DenBronx on Sep 15, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t think the missed tackles were too bad. Certainly there were some, but compared to last year I thought it was an improvement. I agree the running game seemed to struggle. Although Buckhalter looked very good. I also agree that the running game should improve as KnoMo gets more comfortable and Kuper returns to action.

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Sep 15, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm glad we agree

on something, because In the first quarter I almost threw my bar glass because of all the piss poor tackling. I agree in the backfield we are tackling much better, but so many easy tackles missed because of lazy reaches and weak attempts. I saw (and this is drunken memory) at least 4 missed tackles in the first half that should have been easy, and would have either stopped them on 3rd or given them 3rd and medium but yielded firsts. With those tackles back, we get the ball 3 or 4 more times the whole game and the Miracle play becomes irrelevant. (though SO AWESOME!!!!)

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison

"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble

by DenBronx on Sep 17, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

ANSWER

To me, Special Teams is still an area I worry about, though the Broncos did a good job of addressing that in the draft and free agency. With a team like the Broncos, they need all three phases to be playing well to win consistently. Against the Bengals, the coverage units did a solid job. With Josh Cribbs coming up it will be imperative that the coverage units are on top of their game again.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cribbs has been on fire recently.

by rufio on Sep 15, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think most everyone was stunned by your defensive effort against the Bengals. Can you list the four players who are your top DL, pass rusher, ILB, and DB and can you give a brief description of each?

by rockybrown on Sep 15, 2009 4:51 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m saying this in the most honest of ways. But Andre Davis is one of their top LBs.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 15, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

We have been playing a 5-2 base defense. Out of our 2 true LB’s DJ Williams is far better than Davis IMO. Davis had a monster game though. I think Dawkins get all of those guys to play to the height of their ability. He gets them all jacked up before the game and makes sure they stay at that level throughout.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Williams is much better than Davis, and probably underrated among the league’s fans.

by rufio on Sep 18, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Completely agree

If DJ played for the Giants, he would be a household name. He’s definitely underrated.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 19, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or the Cowboys, or the Pats, etc.

by rufio on Sep 19, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

ASNWER

The Broncos are using the 3-4 look and a few players in particular are really adjusting well to the switch.

The D-Line consists of Kenny Peterson at DE(Ohio State, Canton McKinley), Ronald Fields at DT and Ryan McBean at the other DE. All three are unspectacular, but efficient and effective – so far.

The LB’s consist of Elvis Dumervil and Mario Haggan at OLB. Dumervil is a solid pass rusher, and while undersized, has used his speed and quickness to his advantage. It has helped him to be standing and further away from opposing LTs. Haggan has been a surprise this season so far, to win the OLB job outright in camp. The team was so impressed with Haggan they gave him a contract extension last week. He has great size(6-3, 270).

On the inside are D.J. Williams and old frienf Andra Davis. I will be perfectly honest, I was not that high on the Davis signing. As many of you know, I live in the Cleveland area and saw a ton of Davis over the past few seasons. I worried about him, especially in the run game after watching him struggle last year behind Rogers and next to Jackson. Through one game, however, I have been wrong. He was all over the field on Sunday against Cincy, even registering his first sack since 2006.

The DBs are the strength of the defense. The Broncos are using Champ Bailey and Andre Goodman at CB. 2nd Round pick Alphonso Smith is the nickel back. At safety, the Broncos have Brian Dawkins, who can still get it done, and Renaldo Hill. It is an aging group, but they are already playing very well together.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dont get your hopes up on Andra.

Dummervill seems like your biggest pass rushing threat. What side does he line up on?

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 15, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Typically, he will be facing Thomas. I hope Thomas will still be playing with good leverage (like last week), because he’s had trouble against short pass rushers before, namely Dwight Freeney.

by rufio on Sep 15, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

How did the Broncos 3-4 look? Do you see them giving the Browns any problems up front?

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 15, 2009 5:07 PM EDT reply actions  

ANSWER

They seem to be adjusting well. As I mentioned above, the Linebackers seem to enjoy it much better and I have been really impressed with Mike Nolan’s defense. He is a great coach and a teacher of the game. The Browns O-Line is better than Cincinnati’s, so it should be a good test.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

It looked good

Nolan has the OLB’s on the line of scrimmage in our base D giving it a 5-2 look. This suits our OLB’s well because they are almost all converted DE’s. Lot’s of adjustng before the snap seems to cause good confusion. The O isn’t sure how many of the front 7 are going to be rushing the QB. This is an attacking D so I expect to see the Broncos putting pressure on Quinn. He needs to be able to hit his hot route on those occasions. That was one area that Palmer was very effecient last week.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

OLBs in a 3-4 usually do line up on the LOS

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I might remind my brethren that Orton was available in the third round when we selected Frye.

by elsandito on Sep 15, 2009 5:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Let’s not start this. It ends poorly.

by danvail on Sep 15, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

You could do this for every pick the Browns have made since returning.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 15, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Every. We could have picked up AP too instead of Thomas. Huh? Where’s your arguement now?

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 15, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

True...

It can be said all the time, though I’ll say I was thinking the Browns should have picked Adrian Peterson with the #3 pick a few years ago. After passing on L.T. a few years earlier, I thought AP would have been a great pick. If things played out the same, it could have been Peterson and Quinn coming in together. Kinda like L.T. and Brees coming to S.D.

Joe Thomas is a stud LT, however, so it has turned out well, but damn, Peterson is a generational talent.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s a tough call, but I think you’d have to give the edge to taking Peterson. Thomas was the safer pick at the time because of the injury problems Peterson had in college, but I was pleased with the Thomas pick. Thomas also could have the benefit of having a longer career than Peterson in the end.

Out of the 6 teams that passed on Peterson, the Browns have and had the best case. That said, I wanted Peterson and Ugoh before that draft, but Ugoh ended up going before the Browns 2nd round pick would have happened, so it is moot.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 15, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yah but how can you say AP would have flourished in Cleveland? He could have bombed out. Minni is perfect for him (obviously.)

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 15, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can’t for certain, but the talent in undeniable. Some of the great backs in history have been fine with sub-par lines.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 15, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's how I feel...

Don’t get me wrong, Thomas was an excellent pick – he and Clady will be in several Pro Bowls. This is all hypothetical, I am just of the mindset that great running backs find holes and make plays that mere mortals do not.

The injury concerns were real at the time, though and hindsight is always 20/20. At least it wasn’t Quinn that went #3.

-TSG

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that AP would have still done some damage, but our O-Line at the time needed help bad.

I we could have had both though…………

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 17, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I honestly don’t know if I’d take the pick back now if I could. Thomas will definitely have a longer period of sustained high level play, perhaps 5-7 years longer. Add in the injury concerns at the time, and it was and still is a great draft pick.

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Sep 15, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eric Wright didnt end up being a bad second rounder thought ;)

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 15, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Disagree. Glad to have Thomas. Would gladly take him again.

by rufio on Sep 15, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you can’t be upset with how J. Thomas plays the game on a week-in, week-out basis. I love hindsight, but given what we knew then, Thomas was the pick for us.

by DisplacedBuckeye on Sep 16, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is what I said originally, given the knowledge at the time, Thomas was the right choice.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 16, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wasn’t saying otherwise. As with most things, you are correct/more informed than I here. Honestly wouldn’t think calling you out on a question like this, specifically given your previous responses.

by DisplacedBuckeye on Sep 16, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, didn’t mean to come off as combative. I think despite Adrian Peterson’s massive success thus far, there is still good reason to believe that Thomas is still the correct pick.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 16, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

We also could have gotten James Harrison in whatever round we wanted to some year.

Who cares about which subpar QB we drafted?

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 15, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s really the only draft choice that irks me to this day. We took a guy from Akron with good numbers and physicality over a guy with outstanding numbers from a major conference. This was a guy who came from the same system that produced Drew Brees. That Orton was still available in the third round was a real gift to a franchise that needed a qb.
Maybe this isn’t enough to care about, given Orton’s career to date, but it’s a pet peeve of mine.

by elsandito on Sep 17, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wimbley over Ngata still bothers the hell out of me.

by danvail on Sep 17, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

What bothers me more about that is that we traded down with Baltimore so the Ravens could then take Ngata.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 17, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s definitely part of it, but we desperately needed the NT of the future and we had him. Then we took the “next Peter Bouloware”? Great… It’s like buying gas before you have a car.

by danvail on Sep 18, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think we could go into failed Cleveland Browns draft picks for quite a while. Especially if we are going to go as deep as the 3rd round.

by rufio on Sep 18, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh absolutely. It’s easily a 500 comment discussion.

by danvail on Sep 18, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

gimme the over…

I reserve the right to complain about Gimenez at 1B and Carroll in the OF, no matter the facts. - FredOx

by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 18, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

What side does Dummervil line up on?

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 15, 2009 9:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Usually

on the right side of the defense, over the LT, though the Broncos do try to move him around.

-TSG

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

He will have trouble against Thomas. And thats an understatement

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 15, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not even Jared Allen can beat Thomas. Allen had only 1 tackle and 0 sacks last week

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 16, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do like Doom’s matchup more. Thomas usually has more trouble with smaller, quicker guys.

Thomas dominated Allen, though.

by rufio on Sep 17, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Doom is good(and I like him because I am a UofL fan), but he is not even close to as good as Allen

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 17, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t rate Freeney as high as Allen either, but Freeney gave Thomas problems last year. Its not just the talent of the DE, its the context of the matchup, and I think Joe does worse against that type of guy.

I would hardly be surprised to see Thomas dominate again, but I could say that every week. I certainly give the edge to Thomas and I hope he can play with good technique this year.

by rufio on Sep 17, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ineed it is all about matchups

Small, quick pass rushers like DOOM give O Linemen all kinds of trouble. This will be a fun battle to watch.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I bet there are OTs who prefer smaller quicker guys, I meant those comments to be about this specific matchup.

I think Doom will get more pressure than Jared Allen did last week, but it wouldn’t take much to achieve that because Thomas absolutely locked Allen down. One of JT’s best games as a pro.

If he lines up at LOLB, he’ll get a whole lot of pressure.

by rufio on Sep 18, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

They will move him around

But he typically plays ROLB.

I’m sure some OT prefer smaller quicker rushers, as there are plenty other’s that do not. I understood your comments were referring to this specific match-up. I was just adding that DOOM gives most everyone trouble. He’s just so quick that big OT’s tend to be outmatched with his speed. However, in the running game he gets pushed around.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 19, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldnt say he gives everyone trouble. He doesnt get many sacks

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 19, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just 26 sacks in 3 years in the league

Yeah, not many at all.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 20, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well he didnt have many last year

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 20, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well he just got 4 today. Still think DOOM doesn’t get many sacks?

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 20, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

You win

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 20, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good luck the rest of the year

I hope you guys take it to the chefs, faiders, and dolts.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 20, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

5 today.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 20, 2009 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really wish they woulda lined him up against Thomas, and not St. Clair. Good call by the Broncos’ defensive staff.

by rufio on Sep 21, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well if Doom gives most everyone trouble, Joe Thomas is troubled by almost no one. So I guess we’re in for that whole unstoppable force meets immovable object thing.

by rufio on Sep 19, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

RIGHT ON!!!!!! I go to U of L.

Doom is a unique talent. He’s small, but he’s got a large wingspan. So, even if Thomas does have a chance to get his hands on Doom, Doom still has the reach advantage. Doom is just plain scary for a QB.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 18, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

So why doesnt the AD of Louisville have the balls the fire coach Kragthorpe

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no clue.

The suits at U of L are pretty strange. For instance, they made beautiful decorative brick structures in front of the west loop. They paved third street with white bricks and it was awesome looking. Well, it turns out that they decided after three weeks the brick color was wrong. So, they dug it all up and put down red and black bricks.

Why they decide to throw money away or not fire coaches or whatever else, I have not the slightest idea.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 18, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

But what about the coach?

i’m suprised no one else has asked this… what has been the Denver reaction to McDaniels as a coach through the Cutler fiasco, the preseason, and now game one?
I’m sure you’ve heard about all the backlash Mangini has been getting here before the season even started… Rarely have a seen a city so slow to get behind a new coach. Quick to turn? sure. But usually he starts with tons of support. That hasn’t been the case with Mangini
How about with McDaniels? Is the city behind him? Has the second-guessing begun already? How do you feel about the camp he ran? His handling of the QB situation? WR situation? First game, etc.

by Snowcat on Sep 15, 2009 10:58 PM EDT reply actions  

ANSWER

Wow, there is a lot there.

Of course, Josh McDaniels was coming into a tough situation replacing Mike Shanahan. Then there was the Cutler fiasco. There are fans that will never, and I mean never forgive McDaniels for what happened. Of course, things are rarely the way the MSM portrays them, but there is plenty in the MHR archives about the Jay Cutler situation to hold you over on a rainy day.

I’ll keep this to the football side of things. Personally I think he has handled the football side of things 100% right, and exactly the opposite of the way Mangini has. Take the QB situation. Many believed that Chris Simms was the better bet at QB than Kyle Orton even though he hasn’t played in 2 years. At the least people thought there should be an open competition. Too me, QB controversies are divisive, within the fan-base and the locker room. McDaniels ended all the talk by naming Kyle Orton the QB early on in mini-camp. Coaches can always change their mind, of course, but it removed the daily questions concerning the QB situation – to the players and coach – and the fan frenzy that follows.

As for Brandon Marshall, this situation had nothing to do with McDaniels. Brandon Marshall is unhappy with his contract, and that would have happened no matter who was the coach or QB. What the Broncos want to know, and Masrhall needs to realize, is whether or not Marshall can stay healthy on the field, and out of the police blotter off of it. Two off-seasons in a row Marshall has had to rehab from serious injury. Until last week he hadn’t really practiced since February at the Pro Bowl. His legal issues have been well documented.

As for the game on Sunday, I thought McDaniels did a great job, managing the game and the situations. There was a moment at the end of the game, before the Stokely play, that 18 seconds mysteriously disappeared from the clock. McDaniels questioned the officials at length, and initially was over-ruled before the TV guys on the field had the referees check it out. In other words he was on top of everything and it didn’t seem like the moment was too big.

In all, the guy was born to do this, from his youth at Canton McKinley, to Michigan State under Nick Saban, to New England under Bill Belichick, Josh McDaniels was born to coach and he is going to be great.

-TSG

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personally I think he has handled the football side of things 100% right, and exactly the opposite of the way Mangini has.

Would you mind elaborating on this comment?

by Roger Dorn on Sep 16, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for taking some time in Browns country to spice up our discussion.

I’d also like to hear this elaboration… I think the statement might have been generated by inclusion in the question of this:
“I’m sure you’ve heard about all the backlash Mangini has been getting here before the season even started… Rarely have a seen a city so slow to get behind a new coach.”

I would not characterize the welcome in Cleveland like this at all. I think the national and some of the local media have reported this but I think this is a direct result of Coach Mangini being closed-mouthed about team information—especially the QB situation which just became a rallying cry for the national media to exercise their frustration. Media types hate this kind of thing because information is their stock in trade. No information = no story. Most people I know find a lot to like in Coach Mangini. Watch a press conference and you actually hear someone talk about football specifics—which is far different than what we had under Coach Crennel. If you’ve been to a practice you see a much more disciplined teaching environment.

If you have no information but what you hear in the media, I’m not surprised you get this viewpoint about Coach Mangini but I can’t see how it can be compared to the disruption that has occurred in Denver and what seems to me to be a HUGE downgrade compared to Coach Shanahan and the obvious debacle with the loss of Cutler. I’ll tell you that we Browns fans are a lot happier to face the Orton-led Broncos than we would have been facing another 3-TD 447 passing yard outing from Cutler. I can’t see how Denver fans could be happy about their new coach and think he has handled the football side 100% right.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Sep 16, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because the national spin on the events aren't accurate.

You’d be shocked out how skewed this issue has become and how much speculation, conjecture, and flat out gossip mongering has been repackaged as cold hard fact.

For example, one point to ponder is the fact that Cutler requested to be traded at least once before a new head coach had been hired. I think thats a pretty telling detail considering that the cross-hairs on this event have been squarely aimed at MacDaniels.

You should check out the MHR archives as John suggested. It might help you understand why at least part of the fan base is squarely behind MacD on this issue.

by PredominantlyOrange on Sep 16, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, national and local media seem to have their heads in interesting places at all times. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if what we’ve managed to learn from the press has been less than accurate with regards to MacDaniels.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Sep 16, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’d be shocked out how skewed this issue has become and how much speculation, conjecture, and flat out gossip mongering has been repackaged as cold hard fact.

Actually, I am pretty used to that.

by rufio on Sep 16, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll tell you that we Browns fans are a lot happier to face the Orton-led Broncos than we would have been facing another 3-TD 447 passing yard outing from Cutler.

I’m sure you are. But trust me, you would also much rather be facing our ’08 defense than this years version.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think your D is getting way too much credit for stopping Cinci. They have a terrible offense, as Palmer and Chad are the only two positions where they aren’t below average, in my opinion. This isn’t 2005. Cinci will struggle to score all year.

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Sep 18, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I kind of agree with this. I am also interested to see Andra Davis play for another team. I am more worried about our offense than their defense.

That said, Denver’s D was pretty bad last year.

by rufio on Sep 18, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was speaking specifically about the QB situation...

Forget the Cutler deal for a second. Like I said, there is plenty in the archives about what was reported and what most likely happened if all the dots are connected. I’m talking about naming a starting QB early on or not.

By not naming a starter it creates a distraction around the team. Every day players have to answer questions about it. Then, of course, there are the reps. Do you think it would have been a bad thing for either QB to get all the 1st team reps? Would it have been a bad thing for Quinn or Anderson to at least take a few snaps in the final pre-season game? When neither guy is really established, they could use all the work possible. Mangini’s effort to keep it all a secret became a detriment to the team and the players involved.

Maybe it is a personal preference. I think QB controversies are divisive. Players are human. They are going to take sides, if you let them. Since the Browns returned, as there ever NOT been a QB controversy? From all the issues with Couch, to Butch Davis and his “gut feelings”. To name a starter does not end competition on the field. It simply ends the conversation in the locker room.

-TSG

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by John Bena on Sep 16, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for clarifying. I tend to think it is not a big deal, but we had both sides of aisle debating that one here. Honestly, with a new head coach, I see no other way around giving both guys a chance to win the starting job in the preseason.

The Broncos situation is different because the backup had to miss football due to a serious spleen injury and hasn;‘t played in a few years. You can’t compare the two situations.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 16, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

True...

But still, many people were surprised when McDaniels named Orton the starter in May. And from a media standpoint I’m with ya. Who cares if they know. But to take it so far that neither guy plays a pre-season game when the reps are needed is detrimental.

Water under the bridge now….

-TSG

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by John Bena on Sep 16, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I don’t see anything wrong with giving both guys a chance to win the job. You could argue that Mangini should have named his starter earlier, like after the third preseason game, but there is nothing wrong with having a competition. Especially when you have a new coaching staff coming in who doesn’t know much about either QB. Do you want them picking one guy before they even get a chance to see them play?

I don’t really consider this much of a QB “controversy”, more of a competition. I don’t think it was divise for the team or anything like that. It’s not like there were guys coming out in support of one player or the other to cause friction in the locker room. This like this happen all the time during preseason — that’s what preseason is for, to determine who’s starting. If it’s for a linebacker to lineman or receiver or any other position then nobody cares, but when it’s the QB then it’s a big deal. If this would happen during the regular season then it would be one thing, but a little competition in the preseason isn’t bad at all. Again, you can argue with how long Mangini dragged it out, but I don’t thing there’s anything wrong with having both guys compete for the job in training camp when there’s no clear-cut starter.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 16, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. But competition never stops. Naming a guy – even if doing so to the team – provides some stability. If Kyle Orton doesn’t get it done he’ll get yanked. That competition will never stop.

To each there own, but I would prefer my starting quarterback getting all the practice and game action possible.

-TSG

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by John Bena on Sep 16, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, this is an unfair comparison. The Broncos had to decide between Kyle friggin’ Orton and Chris friggin’ Simms. Mangini had to decide between a 26 year old former Pro Bowler and a 24 year old former first round pick who’s only started 3 games. Of course it’s easier for McDaniels to just come out and name Orton. The two decisions have nothing in common.

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Sep 16, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s basically the entire national take on why Mangini is the worst thing to happen to Cleveland since the burning Cuyahoga—not naming a QB earlier. As Mr. Dorn said, we’ve hashed this out a plenty on our boards but my general gist of the thing is that pre-season reps don’t mean squat and chemistry is something that you use to make icky smells in high-school science class.
The main thing that made the choice of QB so difficult in Cleveland is that there are two credible starters with pluses and minuses that pretty much put them at an overall balance. That should be handled differently than a situation in which there is a clear starter with an upstart trying to win the spot. Smoke and mirrors aside, what is wrong with having your starter and your backup familiarize themselves with a new system in game situations?

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Sep 16, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question

My question is on the defensive scheme of the Broncos.

We know they run a 3-4, but there are many kinds. I’ve heard Denver is blitz happy, but do they mix in a lot of zone blitzes, or do they leave their talented secondary in one-on-one matchups with a safety over top? Cover 2 or 3 stuff? Stuff similar to what Pittsburgh and Baltimore try to do, or will they just straight up blitz and not even hide it?

Additionally, do you see the Browns’ running game causing problems for a revamped Denver D?

by BrownDawg1409 on Sep 15, 2009 11:19 PM EDT reply actions  

ANSWER

It will likely change with each opponent, but this past Sunday we saw a 3-4 very similar to the Ravens style – a ton of pre-snap movement, alot of show-blitz and guys coming from different sides and spots on each play. What the Broncos do not have is a stout DT to clog the middle like Ngata or Hampton. That means the linebackers have to step up and fill gaps. The Broncos can succeed in this because they are still smaller in size which means they are quick.

Against the Browns I expect the Broncos to stuff 8 or 9 in the box and make Quinn beat them over the top. Ironically, I think the Browns will do the same against Denver since Orton and Quinn both have the same rap – they prefer to dink and dunk instead of trying to throw the ball downfield. The team that can make the big plays down field will likely win.

-TSG

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Less pittsgurgh, more Baltimore.

by rufio on Sep 15, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

-TSG

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Especially with the Mike Nolan factor...

-TSG

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by John Bena on Sep 15, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

It´s nice of you to venture into this territory, and try to get the competitive juices flowing.
I would just like to repudiate two of your claims:
1.“…, but times are different now with both teams, and the fans of each, trying to re-establish themselves in the NFL.”
That´s speculation. How can you assume we don´t have a history, just because it´s not seamless. And how can you assume there is no continuity in what we are trying to achieve, we are not a start-up or expansion team. We can draw from experience, and we have all the benefits and perks of an ancient franchise. If we change things it doesn´t mean we are reestablishing, but merely changing the direction of our interests.
2.“It’s always fun when the Browns and Broncos get together….”
While it may be fun, please don´t assume we are brothers at arms. I spent some time exploring whether I want to be a Broncos fan, and yes they are cool people. But the Browns and Broncos fans are different animals altogether. Even though the love of the game and even a good time at the tailgate and in the stands might represent common interests, please don´t assume a rivalry can not develop. And thank you about your warning about “crossblogging”, which I know essentially means, watch for trolls.
The general flavor of your contribution to this site is positive and good natured, albeit a bit assumptive and frivolous in it´s naive view of noncompetitiveness.

by mooncamping on Sep 16, 2009 8:05 AM EDT reply actions  

dont bother listening to him.

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 16, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

You spent some time exploring whether you want to be a Broncos fan? I can’t see how this is possible. Does this mean you were looking to root for a different team than the Browns, if so, then get out. The last thing that real Browns fans need is some lunatic with off-the-wall ideas who talks excessively to try and make himself look smart and can’t decide where his loyalties are. As if you haven’t heard it already before: you’re a crackpot! You deserve every bit of the criticism that you get from the guys at this site.

by Browns town on Sep 17, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

He actually became a Browns fan after he was exploring the Broncos. None of it makes sense, which is why we have asked him to explain how his fanship originated or where he gets his ideas for football. He has yet to respond, but instead goes off on a tangent about the prototypical guard or center.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 17, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

And switcing FSs and CBs

and starting ratliff at QB

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 17, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Go suck on a KoolAid ice-cube hot head.
I imagine if you were to poll the majority of Browns fans they would welcome new fans, and not assault them like a podunk hick.

by mooncamping on Sep 18, 2009 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

We have welcomed most new fans.

by danvail on Sep 18, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t like fans who jump from one team to another. Find a team and stick with them — through thick and thin, good times and bad, winning and losing.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 18, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

You simply make no sense. Everything you say is nonsense. You might as well be talking about tennis in your posts. It’s annoying.

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Sep 18, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

rec

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would much prefer he talk about tennis, actually…

by Chemo on Sep 20, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your answers though seem very forthcoming and honest. Your post is a fresh breath of air, in comparison to the doldrums that sometimes prevail here. How´s the Broncos forum, and hows the consensus regarding Bowlen´s and McDaniel´s choices. I remember that the Broncos forum was special, in that you could see changes in the games, seemingly in response to the fan posts on the forum.
If free agency was all season, what players are you still interested in, and are any of them Browns?

by mooncamping on Sep 16, 2009 8:31 AM EDT reply actions  

In keeping with the spirit of your query, do you have any questions?

by mooncamping on Sep 16, 2009 8:42 AM EDT reply actions  

That is all happening over at MHR

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/9/15/1031831/dawgs-by-nature-ask-questions-to-a

Don’t know if you have visited the post yet or not. A ton of great conversation going on over there from a Browns perspective.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
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by John Bena on Sep 16, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why did you tell him that. :(

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 16, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Long time reader, first time poster

Moon, I’ve followed this site for some time now and I’ve seen the way everyone gets on you. It’s definitely warranted. Your thought process indicates that you are a man that has eaten far too many psychedelics in your time. Your questions and observations are so circuitous in nature that you tend to forget what your point was when you began. Come on, stop trying to come across as an intellectual and get to your point. For those of us that are intelligent, we can easily spot a fraud. Being pedantic is not a redeeming quality in the blogosphere. It makes you seem as if you think you are somehow better than everyone.

by justrandy on Sep 16, 2009 9:03 AM EDT reply actions  

I have to say – excellent first post.

by danvail on Sep 16, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey rufio . . . are you going to be in Denver for the game on Sunday? I know you said before that you were trying to get tickets. I’ll be at the game and I think we’re going to have a tailgate spot in the parking lot with other Browns fans.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 16, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am actually going to be near downtown playing in an Ultimate tournament. I think when I get done depends on how well we do.

If I can’t get there pregame, what are you up to after?

by rufio on Sep 17, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure. We’re taking the metro line (or whatever they have in Denver) from Boulder and I’m not sure how long we’ll be hanging out after the game. A lot depends on how much energy I have left after the game (I’m still trying to build up my endurance from all the surgeries after my accident so I have no idea how I’ll be feeling after the game). Why don’t you send me an email so we can exchange numbers and try to meet up after the game or some other time.

By the way, my friend that I’m going to the game with is cols714, the Steelers fan who posts here sometimes.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 17, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh the steelers fan?

I’ll shoot you an email.

by rufio on Sep 17, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s the intelligent, non-annoying Steelers fan (I know those are rare).

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 17, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Damn. That kid can jump.

by joeee on Sep 17, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah he’s pretty ridiculous. He went to CU where I go to school now, and the kids that played with him said he could do some pretty barbell-bending squats, too.

I had to match up on him once and just stayed 10 yards behind him.

Not the sharpest tool in the box, though.

by rufio on Sep 17, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question

Now that that’s out of the way, how many games, do you feel, the Broncos will end up winning? Personally, I think you are looking at a top 5 selection in the draft next year. Now, having said that, will the fans turn on McDaniels if he selects one of next Aprils’ top rated QB’s? (Due to the fact that he traded away a franchise QB and set the franchise back a few years.)
Also, do you feel that having Andra Davis gives you and advantage going into this weekend’s contest because he can provide a more in-depth scouting report on his former teammates?

by justrandy on Sep 16, 2009 9:13 AM EDT reply actions  

ANSWER

Hard to say, as far as wins go. I think the team could go 8-8(and there is always a 2-game swing either way). Let’s say, for a moment, that the Broncos are fortunate and stay healthy. The offense is only going to get better, and the defense is going to be improved. Something tells me the Broncos could be a team no one wants to face come November and December.

Now, if the Broncos fall flat on their face, they won;t have the fortune of selecting that pick because they traded it to Seattle. The Broncos do own the Bears’ 1st Round pick, so we are keeping very close eye on their season for reasons other than Cutler.

I doubt Andra Davis will help that much, unless it is specific to what to look for in Brady Quinn’s tendencies, etc. He does appear to be a man on a mission, however, and I am interested to see how he plays this week.

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

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milehighreport@gmail.com
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by John Bena on Sep 16, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

The offense wont be better than last year

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 16, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

No but

the Defense is so much better than last year’s debacle it’s not even funny. Whereas a balanced team, defense and offense, is the kind that wins championships, the Broncos last year had an erratic offense (lots of numbers but also turnovers and red zone failures) and the defense was often atrocious, with failure to stop anyone in several blowout games that were almost unwatchable. this year the defense will be a lot better and the offense will be stable at least, and should improve from how it is at this moment as the season wears on, as Guru says above.

Their biggest hurdle imho, since the division is fairly weak and thus even winnable for them, is the tough schedule outside the division. That is why I’m also picking them to go 8 and 8, though even that is a possible AFC West winning record.

In short, they have a better all around coaching staff than last year, a better D, and some good personnel on O even if they’re ostensibly weaker at QB.

The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".

by underdog on Sep 17, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

they have a better all around coaching staff than last year

Really? You think Mike Nolan makes that big of a difference?

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 17, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

First, yes

He’s a much better DC than Slowik and the other ones they’ve had recently. He may not have been a great head coach but he’s an excellent DC and I can see the improvement in game planning and results already. Second, Ed Donatell is a very good defensive assistant who returned to Denver this year. Wayne Nunnely is a proven, excellent DL coach who joined them this year as well. People speak highly of Adam Gase and Mike McCoy on offense, though I don’t know enough about them yet. And I think Mike Priefer will have their special teams playing better than last year as well. So it isn’t just Nolan, but I think overall their staff has improved this year.

The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".

by underdog on Sep 17, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't Forget Martindale

When you can do the common things in life in a uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world.
- George Washington Carver

by Kfustud on Sep 24, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fairly weak?

The AFC West is by far the weakest conference in the NFL.

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 17, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The AFC West is by far the weakest conference division in the NFL.

Fixed

by talonk on Sep 18, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right..............

So, even the lowly chiefs were tied with Baltimore 24-24 in the fourth quarter last week……………….

Baltimore finished 11-5 last season.

The chiefs have no recievers, a RB who hasn’t played well in about three seasons, and a multi-million dollar quarterback who was hurt and sat on the bench the whole game.

The AFC West is already surprising teams in the NFL.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 18, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was one game, man.

Its going to take a whole lot more than almost beating Baltimore to make the Chiefs legit. I don’t disagree that the AFC west might not be the worst division in the league—and even if it is it certainly isn’t “by far”.

Still, the division hasn’t proven anything yet.

by rufio on Sep 18, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Steelers and the Ravens are the top 2 teams in the AFC, and the Browns and Bengals would contend for the AFC West every year.

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, we'll see about that on sunday, won't we?

I’ll give you the steelers at the top, but I don’t see Baltimore as the second best team in the AFC. I’m thinking the Pats, Dolphins, Titans, and colts.

Plus, the Ravens lost Suggs. That hurts.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 18, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

No on the Titans, laughing at the suggestion of the Dolphins, very much agree about the Colts/Pats.

by rufio on Sep 18, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont think the Colts anymore, but the Ravens were one game from the SB, so thats why i said 2nd best

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Colts still have Peyton Manning.

Until they lose him, they are going to have a great chance to win every game.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 19, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, how exactly did the Ravens lose Suggs? I see he is listed as probable for them on Sunday…

If you mean Bart Scott, yes they did lose him, but he is nowhere near the caliber of player that Suggs is. And if the Ravens don’t have LBs as good as Scott waiting in the wings, I’ll be very surprised.

by rufio on Sep 19, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have you ever seen the NFC West play?

By far the weakest? I wouldn’t argue that the AFC West is the 2nd weakest division, but come on. By far? Really?

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who is weaker then…

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uh...

…the NFC West, as was stated in my comment.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I meant in the AFC.

I agree that the NFC West is weakest, but at least they had one good team

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

Although I think the Cards are right back to mediocre this year.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

But the Seahawks get Hasselbeck back. They’ll be good. SF is doing pretty well under Singletary too.

by rufio on Sep 18, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I have the Seahawks winning that division this year, with SF 2nd, AZ 3rd, and the Rams, well, they’re still the Rams.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

In Scoring I bet They Will Be

When you can do the common things in life in a uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world.
- George Washington Carver

by Kfustud on Sep 24, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Top 5 overall pick huh?

You must not be too high on the bears : )

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Question

To what evil god did you guys sacrifice in order to pull that win out of your butts against the Bengals?

Will you be holding a similar ritual this week in order to beat the Browns?

;-)

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Sep 16, 2009 11:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Just remember...

Sunsets are Orange and Blue…There is a reason. ;-)

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605

Follow MHR on Twitter!
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by John Bena on Sep 16, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I get the impression that you are part of the Broncos-won-by-blind-luck crowd.

They deserved to win. The football gods were just dispensing proper justice. They haven’t done that for the Broncos for quite sometime now…starting about week 11 of the 2006 season.

by PredominantlyOrange on Sep 16, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe..

Luck is Preparation+Opportunity. I also will never apologize for a road win in the NFL. They are too hard to come by. Fortunate? Yes. But I’ll take it!

-TSG

SBNation's Denver Broncos Blogger
MileHighReport

Questions, Comments...E-Mail Me!
milehighreport@gmail.com
or
Call Me! (303)731-5605

Follow MHR on Twitter!
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by John Bena on Sep 16, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

The football gods were just dispensing proper justice.

What does this mean? So when you lose it’s bad luck, but when you win on a freak play then you “deserved to win”?

Also, I doubt Bengals fans think that was proper justice. Every team’s fans think their always losing because of bad luck and the “football gods” are against them, so there’s nothing special about the Broncos that they deserved some kind of redemption.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 16, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm a Bronco fan.

So, I guess…yep. You nailed it. +1

by PredominantlyOrange on Sep 16, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Denver held Cincy scoreless on the road for 59:22...

…they had a higher average YpP, suffered 5 crucial drops that would have extended drives, dropped a catch and score int inside Cincy’s 10, and generally outplayed the Bengals. Sure, it took blind luck to win it…but this wasn’t the Miracle on Ice or something. The miracle is that Cincy didn’t get shut out and embarrassed at home.

Its all cool. Teams will keep underestimating the Broncos and the Broncos will reap the benefits.

by PredominantlyOrange on Sep 16, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

From the summary of the game I read, it appears both teams suffered from crucial dropped passes.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 16, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

But Denver’s drops were, by and large, situationally impactful. Marshall dropped a 1st down. Punt. Stokely dropped two first downs. Punt. Punt. Peyton Hillis dropped a first down. Punt. Tony Scheffler dropped a first down at the Cincy 10 that— depending on the location of the S (which can’t be seen from the TV angle) might have been a TD. FG.

Denver was in a postion to go up at least 9-0 with under 7 minutes remaining after a pretty impressive drive. They then had a false start, then a tough holding call away from the play to negate a huge conversion inside the Bengals 20. So if Denver runs the ball three times and just kicks, they have a 2 score lead with around 5 minutes remaining. Thus, factoring in the near INT, Cincy could have easily started that last drive down 16-0 at the very least.

Lots of woulda-coulda-shoulda for sure, but it goes both ways. My point is that I’ve seen Denver win a lot of games that they shouldn’t have, and this wasn’t one of them. They deserved it, IMO.

by PredominantlyOrange on Sep 16, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Denver’s drops were also their own fault. You drop a pass, you don’t “deserve” to gain those yards, score those points, etc.

If you score the most points, you deserve to win the game.

by rufio on Sep 16, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

Denver had only themselves to blame had they lost.

I’m just saying that Cincy was lucky to be in a position to win that game. IMO, they got outplayed and therefore the results were the righteous outcome.

I can see how Cincy fans might see it the opposite.

I’m one of those homers that always sees the cup as 3/4ths full.

by PredominantlyOrange on Sep 16, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

One thing I have learned in sports….“Deserved’s got nothing to do with it.”

by Roger Dorn on Sep 16, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look good…play good

by mooncamping on Sep 17, 2009 6:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, I clicked on the link and that’s one heck of a top 5 in one draft. Aikman, Sanders, Thomas and Deion.

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Sep 17, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1
If you score the most points, you deserve to win the game.

Exactly.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll tell you one thing, Stokely’s extension of the TD run to tick more time off the clock is one of the smartest things I’ve seen a football player do during a game in a long, long time. He is the anti-Leodis McKelvin.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Sep 16, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shades of Brian Westbrook.

by danvail on Sep 16, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you referring to the non-td run? Was that Westbrook?

by joeee on Sep 16, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I believe so.

by danvail on Sep 16, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That cost me 80 bucks on championship weekend in my fantasy league. That was one of the worst experiences of my life. I lost by three points.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 18, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, you’ve led a charmed life.

by danvail on Sep 18, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

…and how many virgins do we need to sacrifice to outbid you? ;)

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 16, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have watched that clip about 20x times just for the Gus Johnson’s call of it.

And then I wonder if Joe Buck was doing that game. I’d imagine it would be like:
Buck: “Orton…back to pass. Throws it down the left side. And caught by Stokley. TD Broncos.”

by DisplacedBuckeye on Sep 16, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Gus Johnson is fantastic.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 16, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hah, very well done. I could easily see him getting on one of his “moral” tangents, though:

"Orton…back to pass. Throws it down the left side. And caught by Stokley. TD Bron-…Oh, that is just reprehensible. Truly a travesty to see something like that happen in this day and age. Let’s get the replay….HERE. Did you see that?? White after labor day. What is this world coming to? I am disgusted."

by danvail on Sep 16, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec because Joe Buck is a mega ton Douche.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 17, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I call Gus Johnson

“Orgazmo”

The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".

by underdog on Sep 17, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I call him…………….. Gus.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 17, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve never called him anything.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 17, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

my 2 cents again

this will be a good game b quinn is better than orton idk in fact i dont think we can run up the middle against u guys turnovers will be key and can denver gets qb presser j thomas is the best lt in the nfl stitnbach is very good also i think b-dawk and a davis will make plays the key for u guys is to score early get the crowd against us but the reason i think denver will win is because josh knows eric so well and sadly for u guys just a theory bill b might be heiping josh this week a littie

okay i have cereal palsy arhrtis and chronic fatiue as well i have a grea life loveing folks some days are better that other days i got a make a wish in 2001 saw my favorive team the broncos was the trip of the lifetime i wish everyone couild gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that ok but i bleed organ and bule

by j-man on Sep 16, 2009 5:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Question

What is the Broncos fans reaction to the draft day move of trading next year’s #1 to move up in the 2nd round this year?

by rockybrown on Sep 17, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions  

I can't speak for Guru or every other fan on MHR

(as it was a divisive issue there) but imho, I absolutely LOVE Alphonso Smith. I loved him in college and I love him as a Bronco of the future (and if you saw his first game, of the present). There are arguments either way but when you have a chance to get a player you consider a first round talent anyway, and have two first rounders, you sometimes make that move. Also, the Bears 1st pick next year may not be as low as some people think.

Anyway, I was one in the “in favor” camp because I love A Smith. And it’s about 50/50 on MHR it seemed.

The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".

by underdog on Sep 17, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was an awful trade. You turned down the chance to get Eric Berry to get a second round corner.

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 17, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

What are the odds of getting Eric Berry?

Why put all your eggs in a very small basket. Personally I don’t think the Broncos will finish in the top 5 worst teams in the league anyway, and I think the team was thinking the same way. (Odds are about as good that the Bears pick might end up higher than people think.) Smith also filled a big time need, improving the secondary and is a first round talent. So, it’s not an awful trade by any stretch of the imagination. We disagree. Cheers.

The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".

by underdog on Sep 17, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Smith is NOT a first round talent. If he was then wouldnt he have been picked AT LEAST early in the second round. You are giving up a top 10 or top 15 pick for a second round pick. That is not a good move

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 17, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Either way, you can’t judge it now. You have to wait to see what kind of player Smith becomes and how high that pick is.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 17, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, that's fair

And I still say he IS a first round talent. Just because teams didn’t take him in the 1st round, based on what their other needs were and their own draft boards, doesn’t mean he is not as good as some of the other defensive players taken in the second half of the first round. I am NOT the only one saying this, there are scouts who rave about him. Anyway, I do think you have to wait a couple of years to see how it all plays out, see who they do get access to in the 1st round next year and who they could’ve gotten with the missing pick, etc. And thanks. Good luck this season, Browns fans!

The commenter formerly known as "Dashiell".

by underdog on Sep 18, 2009 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Heck, we still can’t evaluate the Brady Quinn trade.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 18, 2009 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the civility, it’s appreciated.

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Sep 18, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Smith has been VERY good so far.

He shut down Christ Henry last week. Henry had 1 catch for 18 yards. So, it was a very quiet day. He also was very close to his first INT of his career. It was batted around and went through his hands before he could react.

But yeah, he is very good at covering and also set the ACC record for INT at Wake Forest last year. So, he has a nose for the football. He will have a great season, especially since he won’t even have to cover a number one or even a number 2 receiver. He’ll cover the 3’s. Easy money.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 18, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chris Henry is a no.3 receiver.

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

He doesn’t even have to be spectacular to make a big impact because he will not have to go against elite recievers. He has Champ Bailey and Andre’ Goodman.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 18, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you aren’t at least a #2 CB, you probably don’t have a high VORP. And that’s real value, not some FO stat. There are a lot of guys who can cover #3 WRs. There are very few Champ Baileys.

by rufio on Sep 18, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Um, not what I was saying at all.

by rufio on Sep 19, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was the 6th pick of the 2nd round.

That’s pretty high.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

In response to BradyQuinnisBeast
Smith is NOT a first round talent. If he was then wouldnt he have been picked AT LEAST early in the second round.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

4 1st round picks in 2 years

No matter how you slice it, that’s a lot of cap room tied up with unproven players. Don;t think economics had nothing to do with that move. If you’re sitting on 4 1st round picks in 2 years, I don’t mind trading 1 next year for immediate help. It doesn’t hurt that A Smith is a stud either.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

If u are trading better picks away to save money, you are a bad GM. Period.

Anyway, contracts arent too bad for drafted players once you get out of the top 10.

If you think trading picks like that works well, look at what Phil Savage did to us.

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

We still ended up with 3 1sts and a high second

We just took the high second this year. That’s not a bad move.

People can use statistics to prove anything, 87% of all people know that.

by c_style on Sep 18, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was that trade your 2010 1st rounder for the 6th pick in the 2nd this past April? If so, that’s an awful trade. I hope for your sake you got something else out of it.

by rufio on Sep 18, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

BQIB, I can’t fully agree here. The Patriots have traded down for years and made great picks still to save money.

The Browns did it this year in selecting Mack almost 20 spots below our actual draft position.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 19, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

"If u are trading better picks away to save money, you are a bad GM. Period."

The Patriots built a dynasty on trading for first round picks, only to trade them away for multiple second and third round picks. If your team has decent depth across the board, and/or no major holes to fill, then it’s probably a waste of salary to sign multiple first rounders. With the money some first rounders are getting, I think this will become more prevalent, not less. I fail to see how comparing Savage to anyone makes your point = )

I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.
Shaquille O'Neal

by tannji on Sep 19, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right, but the key word there is “multiple”, as in “multiple second and third round picks”.

Again I would love to know exactly what that trade was, because people are making it seem like it was Smith (early second round) for your first rounder next year, which is an awful trade. If you guys got more than that, its not necessarily a bad trade.

by rufio on Sep 19, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was a straight trade, but the reasoning behind it is this… there wasn’t anyone else in the first round still available to us that we either wanted to pay that much money for, or that we felt actually fit what we needed or were trying to do, especially on Defense. McDaniels isn’t going to draft a first round talent just because. We felt that Smith was first round quality, as did many draft boards. So we got a first round value, (by our evaluation) for second round pay. We cant afford too many first round compensation packages, so this worked out well for the Broncos. For another team with different needs, not so much. For a team with a history of jumping on first rounders and getting little return, definitely not so much.
Stop focusing trading first for second. The difference was fairly small in draft position, we got what we wanted, at a good price. We didn’t WANT anyone else in the first at the price we would have to pay!

I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.
Shaquille O'Neal

by tannji on Sep 20, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is the price between an early second rounder and a late first rounder really that different? Being picked in the second half of the first round does not merit a huge contract.

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Sep 20, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, late first rounders have very reasonable contracts

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 20, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one had him as a first round talent. They all had the chance to take him in the first round. No one did.

If you traded next year’s first for this year’s second, there is no way you can know how big of a jump it will have been in draft position, nor whether or not there will be anyone you will want available.

by rufio on Sep 21, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, a large part of it is where the team will end up drafting. Seymour has been a beast for Oakland early this season, but the trade is still a huge win for the Patriots because Oakland will probably be drafting top 10 that year. Not saying the Broncos will be, but if they do finish with a top 10 pick, then it’s a terrible trade.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 22, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Will Bruton get much playing time?

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 17, 2009 9:02 PM EDT reply actions  

How many guys will it take to stop Shaun Rogers? 3 or 4?

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 7:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Our pass protection will consist of knowshon moreno running to the sidelines with a box full of Krispy Kreme.

That should make Shaun Rogers ineffective.

But on a serious note, our offensive line should be able to handle him. This is the same line that only gave up 6.5 sacks last season. 12 if you count the TEs and the RBs giving up some sacks. The offense can definitely take care of him in passing situations.

Running situations, we aren’t so sure. We had 75 yards rushing. So, the running game certainly hasn’t found it’s stride. A lot of that could be attributed to the lack of rhythm due to changing running backs so often. The most carries a Denver RB had was 8 (Knowshon Moreno). So, I think it will be alright once we figure out who is actually going to get the majority of the carries.

So, I’m gonna say ……… 2. 1 if we are running the ball outside.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 18, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Everyone that knows anything must rec this.

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I bet Casey Wiegmann can.

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Sep 19, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

He sure as Hell cant

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 19, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

No? Why not?

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Sep 19, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Every team we played last year and Minnesota have had to use at least 2 OL on him. One play last year, Rogers beat 3 OL for a QB hit.

I’m not saying you guys can’t nullify his pass rush or not let him be the one to make tackles, but you are going to have to use at least 2 guys do get those things done. I consider that still effective, as he will be doing his job and taking blockers away from other players.

He is probably 375-380 and he’s quick and he’s powerful.

Your line’s strength isn’t it’s ability to handle a guy like Rogers one on one, and you don’t have to take my word for it, here are some things straight from scouting reports on your OL:
Wigmann: “While he can get overpowered by some of the leagues bigger nose tackles…”
Hamilton: “he can struggle against some of the bigger defensive lineman in the league…He will have to over extend himself at times to hunker down when trying to stop the bull rush.”
Kuper:“he can struggle when trying to hold his ground against more powerful bull rushers.”

Teams with much, much bigger/presumably stronger Cs/OGs than Denver had to use 2 guys on him. Also, you guys needed to double team him last year.

We know what decent and bad defensive linemen look like, trust me; we’ve had a lot of them. Shaun Rogers is a great lineman.

by rufio on Sep 20, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's interesting...

’cause here are some ACTUAL game stats of how “bigger NTs” did against Wiegmann last season:

Defense T-A SCK INT FF
S. Rogers 2-0 0.0 0 0
K. Jenkins 0-3 0.0 0 0

2 tackles for Rogers? Seems pretty “ineffective” to me.

Here is a write up from the nj.com of Wiegmann’s performance against Kris Jenkins last season:

Denver’s 35-year-old center Casey Wiegmann manhandled the much bigger Kris Jenkins, one of the leading candidates for the league’s defensive MVP award. Despite being outweighed by nearly 75 pounds, Wiegmann had his way against Jenkins

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2008/11/broncos_hillis_runs_rampant_ov.html

But I’m sure you’re scouting report is right. I’m sure the fact that Wiegmann only allowed one sack last year is a fluke too. I really don’t know how they let him in the Pro Bowl.

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Sep 20, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Check your source because Shaun had a sack last week

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 20, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nevermind I
Misread your post

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 20, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s the problem when you call other people ‘unintelligent’.

You’re bound to say something stupid at some point. ;-)

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Sep 20, 2009 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

HAHAHAHAHA

Well done, PNB

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 20, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

At least I quickly caught my error

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 20, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

??

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 21, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

From the movie "Field of Dreams"

One of the players yells “HEY, at least I GOT muscles.”

Someone replies, “NO, at MOST you got muscles.”

Great quote. Great movie. You gotta see it.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 24, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

…right, because you double-teamed him! Exactly like I said.

You are an idiot homer. I am just a homer.

by rufio on Sep 21, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that directed at me? That’s just plain uncalled for.

I kept it respectful. It’s a shame that you couldn’t do the same.

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Sep 27, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope Josh McD underates Rogers as much as you do.

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 18, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wish you were intelligent

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 19, 2009 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now we’re getting a little heated. Must be game day!

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get it........

lol. Wow. You really think insulting my intelligence is going to change the outcome of this game? This is a disgrace to sports debate everywhere.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 20, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, here's a stat that even a guy with no intelligence can figure out.

Shaun Rogers hasn’t won a game since 2007.

The Browns have lost 9 of their last 10 games.

Both are clearly proven winners……………

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 20, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

BQiB, you shouldn’t really talk to people like that. We’re just trying to have a friendly conversation about football. You can disagree with people but don’t question their intelligence just because they have a different opinion than you.

Now if someone says something stupid — like calling a QB a “proven winner” — then you can call them stupid.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry I just get to carried away. Sorry everyone

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 20, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

So, really you should be replying to kentuckybronco above? Proven winner.

by rufio on Sep 21, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kinda depends on his foot, to begin with. After that, we will just have to see if our line plays like it did last year.

I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.
Shaquille O'Neal

by tannji on Sep 20, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol, oops. This was in regards to BradyQuinnisBeast “How many guys will it take to stop Shaun Rogers? 3 or 4?”

I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.
Shaquille O'Neal

by tannji on Sep 20, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I appreciated the positive football discussion this week guys. Informative and entertaining as always.

Good luck this season (after today of course). ;-)

"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!

by PosterNutbag on Sep 20, 2009 12:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Good luck with your season guys… That wasn’t pretty, and I know just how it feels. For those that were unconvinced, Doomerville IS that good, as is the O-line. I think you guys are in a similar position to us QB wise though. Neither played great, but Orton “Managed the Game” for us again.
Till next time,

I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.
Shaquille O'Neal

by tannji on Sep 20, 2009 7:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Our problem is that Quinn was managing the game as well, except we were losing and don’t have any talent.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 20, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

We have a little talent, just no coach.

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 20, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought so, but the offense looked pathetic. I count 3, at most, above average players on that side of the ball.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 20, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thomas, Edwards and… ?

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Sep 20, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Steinbach?

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 20, 2009 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I included Steinbach, but he was the maybe.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 20, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the classy sendoff. Ugly it was.

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 20, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank you bronco fans for doing this post with us. We sure won’t be able
To do this next week

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 20, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ravens. Nuff said

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 21, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can feel the migraine starting already.

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 21, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol wow, yeah you're right.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 21, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Doom went against John St. Clair. I am still unconvinced he can be anywhere close to that productive against a good OT.

St. Clair sucks. Bigtime. Doom can abuse a terrible RT. We start a terrible OT. We need like 50 draft picks in the first two rounds next year. Doom can dominate that, which he clearly proved on Sunday. I don’t think he proved he is “that good”. He did beat the guy in front of him all day long.

by rufio on Sep 21, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doom is good, but the Broncos effectively told us that Thomas is great by moving Doom against our RT.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 22, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

So is this not a good sign about Kotnkus (sp)? Schafer was bad, but I don’t know if he was 4 sacks in a half bad.

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Sep 22, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t necessarily think so. I think Kokinis would tell you they didn’t view St. Clair as more than a 1 year stop gag, nor would they even tell you that St. Clair is better than Shaffer. The idea was to take the cap hit on Shaffer’s contract this season to clear cap space going forward and for years when the team expects to compete. My feeling is that Shaffer’s play did not match his pay, even if he is better than St. Clair.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 22, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Schaffer’s contract was pretty bad considering how he played in 08. It wasn’t worth it to have so much money tied up in him, Thomas, and Steinbach, and that’s without considering Mack.

I hope Kokinis didn’t view St. Clair as more than a stopgap. I did think he played better in Chicago last year than he has this year for us—a lot better, actually. I don’t know if he is upset about his situation or what.

by rufio on Sep 22, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bronco fans:

Be honest; do you see us winning any games this year

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 21, 2009 12:17 AM EDT reply actions  

definitely.

You have the lions, jags and chiefs. That’s three guaranteed right there.

Bringing Bronco love from 1,112 miles away

by Troy Hufford on Sep 21, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly, I was impressed with your defense. Your Offense has potential, but it doesn’t look like Quinn is there yet, and/or that he isn’t being taught properly. I heard it said earlier that Mangini and McDaniels fell from different sides of the Belichek tree. That may have merit as well. I sincerely wish you the best from here forward… as bad as it may feel now, we are dealing with EVERYONE thinking we are horrible too, so we sympathize completely.

I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.
Shaquille O'Neal

by tannji on Sep 21, 2009 1:59 AM EDT reply actions  

I am not that down on the defense. The offense has been bad beyond my wildest dreams.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 21, 2009 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

My thoughts exactly. I expected much more from our offense against Denver. After the Vikings game I was using the excuse that we played a great defense, and I thought we would look much better against the Broncos, but that performance was pathetic.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 21, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, uh, I think maybe from now on we should avoid telling opposing fans how bad their teams are.

by Chemo on Sep 21, 2009 11:09 AM EDT reply actions  

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