Post-Game Thread: Browns Remain Clueless, Lose 34-3 to Ravens
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 27, 2009 4:29 PM EDT
in General News
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PrintI thought we were a pathetic-looking team last year when Ken Dorsey was under center. What we've seen the past three weeks shows that this team is clearly trying to top that.
Overall, it was as bad of a football game as you could get. What little signs of life we saw from the defense over the first two weeks of the season was removed this week. Returning were the missed tackles, the wide open throws over the middle after little pressure, and the lack of an ability to capitalize on third-and-long situations.
On offense, Brady Quinn still didn't have any idea what to do in the offense and was benched at half-time for Derek Anderson, because there is nothing funner in the NFL than an 0-3 team having a quarterback controversy after having supposedly "resolved" the situation heading into Week 1.
Which quarterback gives us the best chance to win? Right now, it's probably Anderson. He looked foolish for throwing three interceptions, but even he would not have made some of those throws if we hadn't been down by so many points in the first place. He at least showed the willingness to move the ball down the field. I'd rather take the chance of getting picked off than conceding in a sack and punt every single possession.
Look at the bright side of things -- at least we're not the only team in the 0-3 boat. The Tennessee Titans, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, St. Louis Rams, and Kansas City Chiefs are among the winless teams.
I'll have my full analysis of the game in a day or so.
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Let’s give the coaching staff some credit for getting Cribbs plenty of touches (on kickoff returns).
Wildcat.
Where’d it go? Nothing’s working offensively. That worked for us Week 1, so we never run it again? Color me frustrated.
"There's nothing that cleanses the soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." Woody Hayes.
If you can’t run a normal play, why Wildcat it?
Which is more frustrating, running up the middle for 2, or handing it off to Cribbs to run it up the middle for 2?
Trying the same thing over and over and having it never work is much more frustrating. With Cribbs in the Wildcat we are at least putting another look on the field, changing things up.
And we had some success with that Week 1, we haven’t had success with really anything else
"There's nothing that cleanses the soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." Woody Hayes.
The Vikes had to respect Cribbs throwing the ball. Teams now know better.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
How about having one of the most unique football players in the NFL and doing nothing unique with him. That sucks.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t get me wrong though, I believe the Wildcat can gain yards.
But Cribbs has no support outside himself. Because of that, it doesn’t work. When Miami does it, their fans get excited. They know they’ll gain some yardage.
When we do it, I just go “ugh”.
Right now, when we lineup our offense at all, I go “ugh.” Daboll is showing no creativity, and is making terrible play calls right now.
We need to do something, run the Wildcat and let Josh throw, what’s the worst that could happen? He’ll throw a pick instead of Brady or DA, does that really make a difference?
"There's nothing that cleanses the soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." Woody Hayes.
By the way, I agree with that observation re DA. The guy has a million dollar arm. He throws a beautiful pass with velocity. If only he had more accuracy on the short routes and could learn to be a better decision maker, this guy is pro bowl material. He seemed more composed and in charge than DA part one, which is a positive. I fear that DA would look a lot like BQ if he checked down when receivers aren’t open, which is most of the time.
Exactly. The plays aren’t any different. They drop back and see the same thing. One tries to force it into coverage, the other takes the sack/dumps it to the RB. Neither of them are good enough to make things happen on their own and the rest of the offense (players and play designs) is just terrible.
If DA could hit people short and stopping throwing to the wrong team, he’d be great.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
If I turned about 30 pounds of fat into muscle, had a healthy right knee, and could cut about 3 seconds off my 40 time, I’d be an awesome RB.
My point exactly. While we’re wishing for miracles….
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
uh - no you would still be a puss
by realmccoy on Sep 27, 2009 8:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
very intelligent. and not personal at all. Good contribution.
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 28, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Quick observations.
The Good:
- I like our punter. Legit chance at a pro-bowl season for the Z man.
The Bad:
- Defense looked like they gave up before the game started (instead of at halftime).
- Offense looked totally incompetent. I think the blame on the play calling is really overblown. But Daboll should submit his letter of resignation and Mangini should consider accepting it. Neither Anderson nor Quinn have the ability to be an NFL QB. Quinn for lack of confidence and arm. Anderson for lack of accuracy and leadership.
- Cribbs hasn’t had a good play in 2 weeks.
Agreed. Whether Jamal is healthy next week or not, Harrison should stay.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
At least we dont have uniforms as ugly as the seahawks’s green ones.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 27, 2009 4:37 PM EDT reply actions
Time To Go
Eric, I think it’s time for you to go.
You have lost the team. They won’t play for you anymore.
Any attempt on your part to lighten up now, would result in the team walking all over you.
Check and Mate.
You can’t blame the QB when there are so few opportunities to get in a throwing rhythm. 8 attempts in one half? Dink and Dunk aside that’s just not enough. Run, Run or Run, Screen forces too much on 3rd down, that’s why our efficiency this year is awful.
They haven’t ran the wildcat once since the first half of the first game, there is nothing creative or exciting about the O.
Brady has 4 full games and 2 partial under his belt, DA has 20+.
Has Brady played that stupid? Is the O-coordinator to blame? or is he just never going to be able to throw a ‘real’ pass.
Personally I think he can be blamed for ‘executing’ a the ‘offense’ as the coach has instructed him.
Time To Go
Eric, I know when you took over this team 8 months ago, everybody had such high expectations.
Now, the way you handled the quarterback competition makes you look so foolish. The intrigue of not having any communication with the fan base showed your lack of care for the fans that pay your wages.
Your football acumen will now be chalanged. You spent every day with these players over the last three months. You picked the wrong guy. Yes, Anderson did not look good either. But he looked a heck of a lot better than Quinn. Brady hardly completed a ball for mor than 20 yards.
Also, that fool at Notre Dame. No wonder the Irish are big losers over the last few years with Weis.
I'm gone
I have been a Browns fan since the 5th grade. That’s 54 years. I have been loyal to this team.
Go Seahawks!
Pathetic!!!
Just like you, I have been a fan since the 5th grade. It’s been 37 years of wondering and hoping when this team would get its act together. Another season down the toilet already!
Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out. We don’t need quitters around here. Enjoy the terrible Seahawks.
Good luck with your new team. If you change your mind, don’t worry about letting us know.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
This offense is juvenile The sophistication has taken a huge step back from Chudzinski. They run simplistic route combinations and obvious formations- when they want to run it. they go tight; when they want to pass, they spread it out. Horrible design by the coordinator. It’s quite clear why this is his first stint as play-caller.
it seemed to me that the play calling/design really showed it’s weakness in this game…we’re tired of all the dump offs from quinn, of course…but then you see anderson come in and he ends up checking down and dumping the ball off several times, too! you KNOW anderson is not a good decision maker, and the fact that he’s checking down, as well, makes me believe that the routes are horrible and no one is even showing a glimmer of being open.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. We just don’t have any talent at receiver other than Edwards. Add to that the fact that there is no talent on the right side of the OL, and what do you expect either of these qb’s to do?
while you’re right that the right side of the line is terrible, they were not (surprisingly) the issue on sunday. pressure on the qb wasn’t even remotely an issue, which was shocking.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s a change in the Raven’s new defensive scheme. Mattison plays much more coverage than Ryan ever did.
The new scheme is more about collapsing the pocket than getting free blitzers and sacks. I think it worked very well against the Browns (although… every defense has worked against them). After the yardage give up to the Chargers, many Baltimore fans were panicking about the pass coverage. It was good to see the scheme come together. I knew it would… It just takes time for our secondary and linebackers to adjust. They should be good now.
I agree completely, the WRs and the play design (not the play calls) are what is preventing the passing game. Does it help that we have a starting QB that has no confidence and another that has no accuracy? No. But the WRs need to take a big part of the blame.
I thought going into last offseason that WR was one of our weaker positions, so adding Robiskie and Massaquoi made sense to me. And I’m not angry that Furrey and Cribbs won the #2 and #3 jobs. But they need to get much better, or the rookies need to be given the opportunity to learn during the games.
Cleveland Browns Stadium
When Cleveland put up the new stadium in back in 1998/9 didn’t they reroute all the water lines into the stadium? Apparently there is something in the water in the new stadium since 1999 because no matter what regime we bring in to coach, they just can’t get it done (i.e. they lose their football minds).
That and the players look lackluster…NO FIRE IN ANY OF THEM!!!
No “will to win”!
And as far as the TEAM (definition: a number of persons associated in some joint action) goes… well I guess we do have a TEAM because they all are associated in the joint action of LOSING every game.
There is something in the water!!!
by BROWNS GREATEST SEASONS 1996 1997 1998 on Sep 27, 2009 5:14 PM EDT reply actions
The NFL is tough when your two favorite teams are the Browns and the Titans.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 27, 2009 5:15 PM EDT reply actions
ummm....
Browns and lions? Well i guess at least one of my teams got a win today haha
Right. Since when do fans have more than one favorite team? Isn’t that like having more than one wife?
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh sorry for liking more than one team. The Browns, are my favorite, really. I just like the Titans. Thanks for informing me of how it is totally illegal!
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 28, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Should I quit liking the Browns too because I like Notre Dame better!
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 29, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you really not understand the difference between rooting for two pro teams and rooting for a pro team and a college team? I mean, isn’t that obvious?
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I even think rooting for two colleges is fine. A lot of people go to a different college than the team they grew up rooting for.
Sure, especially if they’re not in the same league and rarely play each other. All the Ohio MAC schools (Toledo, BG, OU, etc.) are full of kids from Ohio who are big Buckeyes fans. Heck, I went to Youngstown State for undergrad and almost everyone there was an OSU fan (except those few from Pennsylvania) — and that was even before Tressel left for OSU.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you Brownies!
You actually have made it more pleasant to do yardwork than to watch football.
The march to 0-16 continues.
by CaptainPorkchop on Sep 27, 2009 5:16 PM EDT reply actions
Right now, it’s probably Anderson. He looked foolish for throwing three interceptions, but even he would not have made some of those throws if we hadn’t been down by so many points in the first place.
I wish I could agree, but I have seen DA make dumb decisions with the football at all points of a football game. It doesn’t matter if we have a lead or not.
at least we’re not the only team in the 0-3 boat. The Tennessee Titans, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, St. Louis Rams, and Kansas City Chiefs are among the winless teams.
Honestly I don’t think we could beat any of those teams right now.
Neither one is the answer but I’d rather have a snowballs chance in hell at winning with DA as the starter than agonizingly watch BQ throw 2 or less yard passes.
by North Coast Flea on Sep 27, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The Rams have a playmaking RB. We can’t stop those.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
This a collective effort. This is a whole franchise that is on fail. This is not specifically the QB or the running backs or the “D” This whole team from Lerner down is what the problem is. This is in epic proportions. This will not rebound in a year, this is going to take awhile. And now a QB ring around.
Browns draft 2 wide receivers in the second round, they can’t seem to find the field with this wonderful team. Steelers draft a wideout in the 3rd round, Wallace, and has 65 yards in a half. Bengals draft the LB from USC, who I refuse to spell, running all over the field like a mad man. This is the root of the Browns failures, they do not draft well.
I don’t want to say that Mangini is the wrong choice this early, however when you fine players 1,700$ for not paying for water bottles, and they file a grievience on your ass, that spells for locker room separation.
This is going to be some lean times, and that is going to be long lean times. I never thought I would see 1999 repeated, well this is time travel.
Not that I disagree, but the fine wasn’t for a water bottle. It was for many repeat offenses.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
My understanding it was because a player didn’t pay for it when he left a hotel. I didn’t hear anything about it being a repeating problem. No saying your wrong, just that is news to me.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Charlie Casserly on the CBS pregame show stated that the story of a player being fined $1701 just for a water bottle had absolutely no truth to it. He then stated that there was another player on the team who was fined for the same amount for numerous incidents. Finally, Casserly speculated that Anderson would see action if Quinn continued to take too long to make decisions.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 27, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting. I still think that these guys have quit on Mangini. Anyone else notice that tackling effort by McDonald on McGahee late in the game? Willis was just pushing him downfield.
I am really starting to hate this team. I hate typing that.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
i don’t think they’ve quit…they just suck.
and mcdonald simply can’t tackle (or guard derrick mason, either, apparently).
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Willis is known for his stiff-arm.
Not many defensive backs could muster a tackle like that. McDonald was lucky to get him out of bounds.
I know the difference between a stiff arm and a pansy ass attempt at a tackle. This wasn’t a stiff arm.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 29, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand that we love the Browns and don’t trust the media, but everyone is way too quick to dismiss the water bottle thing. I mean, Charlie Casserly? He’s not even a journalist, he’s a former NFL front office guy.
This is a story that was reported by several sources, and Mangini himself didn’t even deny it. In fact, when asked about his heavy fines, he said, “When we go to hotels, we pay incidentals.”
So maybe some people think it’s a non-story, but I’m not going to assume that it’s false just because Charlie Casserly says so.
Really? Is Charlie Casserly impartial? How many fines do you think his front offices have leveled over the years?
Journalists are often guilty of overblowing or misinterpreting things, but they rarely invent information out of thin air.
Yes, impartial. I don’t think Casserly cares one way or the other in defending Mangini. If you have reason to believe, he would lie about this, please provide.
Likewise, if you have reason to believe that several media outlets would lie about it, please provide it. We’re not going anywhere with this.
As Bernie19Kosar said, there is probably truth to both sides of this story. Maybe it was the offender’s 4th screw-up. But you can’t say “I don’t trust anything the media says” and then take Charlie Casserly at his word. It’s silly, right?
I think the press dislikes Mangini. That is the reason I think they will throw whatever junk they hear into the open.
As for Casserly, I think he has no reason to refute the story unless he has good reason to believe it is untrue. He has no financial gain to be made by doing so, unlike the reporters.
The press has a reason to trash Mangini, but Casserly does not have a reason to support Mangini in refuting the claim unless his information is true and good.
I think the press clearly does not like Mangini. But they don’t make money by reporting false things, and if they report wholly fictitious information, they get fired. Also, just looking up a couple of clips of Casserly on Youtube, it’s clear that he does like Mangini, so I would say that evens out.
Casserly is a likable enough guy on TV, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen him criticize a front office for anything. As for him not having any incentive to report things unless he’s sure about them, he’s a media member now just like the rest of them. He has to prove to the network that he has value, generally through some kind of exclusive revelation. And he doesn’t have any kind of journalistic background, so he doesn’t know the first thing about sourcing.
I mean, check out this clip of Casserly on the Cutler trade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0aXHCwAW9E. He’s just inventing trade scenarios (“Snyder’s aggressive, I’m sure he would have offered two number ones and Jason Campbell”) and presenting them as fact.
At this point, Casserly is the same as any other media member looking to break a story, only without the basic journalism training that the rest of them get. There is no reason to believe him over any other journalist, and certainly no reason to believe him over multiple media outlets. Heck, even CBS, the network he was on, has run with the water bottle story.
Actually, the press does make money by reporting false things/not checking their sources. Any story that inflames the public and keeps them checking back for more is exactly what makes for good ‘dollars and cents’ in the press.
And with sports reporting, all they have to say is that they got the info from a team/league source. If it turns out to be wrong, who cares? The truth won’t be nearly as interesting and will die a quiet death because that story just doesn’t have legs.
for proof of JustBob’s assertion, please check profootballtalk.com
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that both sides probably have parts of the story correct. With Camp Mangini never letting facts out, thats the best we can hope for.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
If by rarely you mean “frequently”, I’d agree. Grossi hasn’t done anything but pure speculation in years.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Sep 28, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
First of all, this has nothing to do with Grossi. But anyway, when they’re just idly speculating, you see lots of qualifiers like “Could the Browns cut Jamal Lewis?” You don’t see stories like “Browns cut Jamal Lewis,” which is what we have in this case — hard news presented as fact. Heck, Mangini even made his “incidentals at hotels” comment. There’s truth to this story.
If he was fined after the water bottle incident, but it’s the player’s 7th offense against the rules, your “fact” headline would technically be correct, but it would convey no truth.
Mangini said it was for multiple transactions. He keeps his mouth shut to the press as a rule. The fined player, however, has something to gain by leaking it and making it sound as unfair as possible. I, for one, liked his explanation, that he doesn’t treat them any harder than anyone else who has to follow rules in society.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
I don’t necessarily disagree with the fine, I just disagree with the premise that the entire story is completely false because Charlie Casserly said so. And I’m bothered by the browbeating that some people have received just for bringing it up.
I don’t like to be a media apologist, but I occasionally feel forced into it.
This front office has had one draft and you can’t grade that after a season, and certainly not 3 games.
And if you are watching the Bengals-Steelers, you saw Malaluga get abused like a rookie with no discipline by Parker and Ben Rothlisberger on Pitt’s TD.
You just have the water bottle story wrong.
Still, I agree with the idea of your post.
I guess the perception of the Water Bottle incident is what really looks bad. Its Mangini over stepping his bounds at least that what it appears. He has a team that you could label as the worst in the league and he is fining players coin for water bottles.
I don’t know frustration is every where with this team.
Duh, because it was a 20 oz. Mountain Dew bottle fine. Get your facts straight!
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 27, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Appreciate your persistence in trying to squash this, kwoog. Hard to get the genie back in the bottle, isn’t it?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny article on yahoo’s shutdown corner right now about running a spread option with Josh Cribbs under center as our base offense…
We should hire Paul Johnson (coach of my Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets)!
Why’d you change your username?
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 27, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Your post over at the Beatdown (something along the lines of ‘I used to post here’) sparked my interest. Then, I have the ability to see members who have created accounts with the same IP address.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 27, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Well first I was scared my name was jinxing him.
I also thought about how I would be treated on other blogs with a name like that.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 27, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
OMFG. Didn’t you comment on the last thread something like “We need BQIB?” That was such a selfish comment. HA!
And I did miss you. But really? TRSS? Go back to BQIB.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 27, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I already said why I changed my name
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 27, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
…and referencing ‘Eminem’ will accord you more respect?
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 27, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Naw, hes still got it.
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 27, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, you seem pretty smart yourself.
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 27, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I like the BQiB name. If he gets old, you can still use it as a gag (i.e. KellyHolcomb4QB)
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 27, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
What is this, a rap critique forum?
by BradyQuinnisBroken on Sep 27, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No thats not me.
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 27, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I only have two accounts.
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 27, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
no really, I wouldnt have an account insulting my boy. He is still my favorite football player.
You can check the IP address and everything
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 27, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
The other option is to talk about the browns, so right now yes, it is.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 27, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Ben Roethlisberger with a pick six against the Bengals; Cincinnati still in it. If Pittsburgh holds out, the Bengals/Browns contest next week will still have the “who will be the AFC North cellar team” implications.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
Will DA get to play the next 2 games so he has an equal shot with Quinn?
At least DA takes a shot downfield. With Quinn, 1st downs are few and far between.
If he gets the start next week, hopefully he can cut down on the INTs.
in mangini’s post-game conference (he sounded like a total idiot btw), he said that he’s going to “study the situation”… so he doesn’t know who will start next week.
gotta keep the bengals guessing! it’ll give the browns a competitive edge! what a genius that mangini is…
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
where did you see the press conference?
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 27, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s possible he sounded like an idiot becasue he is one. Not all idiots are able to disguise their idiocy.
by palcal on Sep 27, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
sorry if this is a stupid question, but what does “rec” mean?
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
Rec is basically a synonym for “I agree, great post”. You can also hit the Actions button next to someone’s post and hit “rec”. If a post gets 2 or more recs, the post is highlighted green so that it stands out.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 27, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d say it’s more fun to watch the way DA loses. That’s about it though.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel your pain. Do you want to be shot or hung?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Totally agree, but at least there is that little thrill just as he releases a missile downfield… incredible touchdown?? horrific pick??
There’s some suspense there, which is nice. When Quinn has been at QB, my pulse has slowed to the pace of the Browns offense. I’ve been clinically dead since the preseason.
The only suspense I have when I see DA drop back is… Sack? INT? Incomplete Pass?
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
At least all the teams that have beat us are undefeated.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 27, 2009 6:05 PM EDT reply actions
this QB situation is just awful. remember when mangini said that once he made a decision, that was it? and that he wasn’t going to rotate QBs? well, it only took him 2 and a half games to back out on that one.
mangini needs to stick with quinn for the rest of the season. i don’t think DA will really do any better. he looked good on the field goal drive, that’s it. 3 interceptions is inexcusable. some people say: “oh well they were down by X points… you can’t blame him for forcing some things.” i don’t care how many points they’re down by. you’d think that after getting a chance to show he could perform better than brady, DA would try to avoid making stupid decisions. apparently not.
at the end of the season, one of these QBs will be gone. and in all likelihood, they’ll be drafting a QB and the cycle will begin again. sam bradford, colt mccoy, case keenum (if he declares), javon snead… they’re not going to let all of these guys go by if they don’t think their QB is on the roster now.
james davis can develop into a solid starting RB. i watched him at clemson, and he was awesome. momass and robiskie need to get some more playing time in. cribbs is not a #2 wr. everyone knows it.
the romeo era is starting to look better than this crap. i haven’t seen any “discipline” from mangini because they keep getting called for just completely ridiculous penalties. daboll’s playcalling is absolutely awful. he needs to go. i think the QBs could call their own plays on the line and still do better than him.
if things don’t improve, the browns are looking at 0-16 and the #1 pick. may as well start calling them “the new detroit lions”.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
Jimmy Clausen is looking great but I doubt he declares for the draft.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 27, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont really like many of the QBs next year.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 27, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
really? i think mccoy and bradford are going to be awesome in the nfl.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
I really like Bradford. He has great accuracy
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
But there are concerns about coming from a spread and he cant read defenses(thats why he always looks to his coach at the sidelines),
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 27, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Any QB that can can down field with accuracy would become the best QB on this team from day 1.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Mangini really blew things apart when he put DA in for the second half here. Pure desperation. I agree about giving BQ the playing time just like I’ve been agreeing, but now it just looks like a dice roll as far as who’s going to be in. No plan at all.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I said in the game thread that putting DA in when you’re down 3 scores against a top ranked defense with a guy who forces the ball was a terrible terrible mistake.
If DA were going to go in, I would’ve called nothing but deep balls. Down that much, why the hell not?
Sure, if you’re going to put in the gunslinger, give him all the bullets and tell him to fire at will.
Or maybe I’d rather they’d have done that with BQ. Then we’d have learned something at least, about BQ and deep throws. Now we’re right back in the preseason again. Argh.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell I bet the only QB still on the roster next year will be Ratliff still holding down the 3 hole
by North Coast Flea on Sep 27, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Bright Spots
1. Lewis should no longer be the starter; Harrison should be with Lewis used in goal line situations and as a change of pace. At the very least, they should get equal carries.
2. DA should start over Quinn – at least he distributes the ball and can throw more than 6 yards. He made completions to Edwards, Furrey, and Massoqui. Brady can run a hell of a screen pass, but hat’s it. I’ll take interceptions down field over futile attempts to get long first downs. Also, defenses know that DA can and will throw the ball down field, keeping them a little more honest for the run game.
3. Zastodil looks good.
4. We’ll get a high draft pick again. Hopefully we use THIS draft for linebackers. I’m sick of watching a 3-4 without LBs with enough speed to make it work.
by chitown browns fan on Sep 27, 2009 6:27 PM EDT reply actions
How can you say DA will improve us? He is awful
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 27, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
how could he make it any worse? lol BQ is like his small-armed clone.
by North Coast Flea on Sep 27, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Improve our INT numbers, maybe.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
i know he’s played 3 games, but the fact that they could’ve gotten sanchez kills me. and the fact that mangini gave that pick to his FORMER TEAM makes it even worse. he has more to work with with the jets, but damn… they let that one slip away.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
Just figure, he traded down and dogpiled those picks. NONE of those picks has made an impact on the team, included our 1st rounder.
That’s what drives me nuts. All that wheeling and dealing with nothing to show for it. Meanwhile, the Manning brothers are putting up huge numbers with rookie and 2nd year WRs.
like i said, robiskie and momass need to get in the game more.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
That’s one thing that killed me about Crennel. When the season was lost, play your damn rookies. Would it have killed him to give Beau Bell and Alex Hall chances? Or Paul Hubbard? Yeah, they’re all gone now except hall, but they never had a chance with Crennel and Mangini picked 8 guys in the draft.
If the game was lost, pull Cribbs and let MoMass get some playing time.
This. I don’t know if we’re at this point this year, but Crennel’s failure to do anything to evaluate talent at the end of last year drove me insane!
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
three games. THREE GAMES. When talking about the draft PLEASE HAVE SOME PERSPECTIVE. Plus, think about these three games, are we a QB away from being anything besides 0-3?? We need much more than an upgrade at QB.
If, in three years Sanchez looks better than Mack, Elam, Coleman, Massaquoi, Ratliff, Francies, AND James Davis COMBINED fine, say it was a bad trade and overall a bad draft. The trade was a no-brainer at the time, probably will look good in the future, and honestly, doesn’t look too bad now.
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 27, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i’m not saying that a QB will solve all of our problems. hardly. mangini didn’t seem to show any confidence in quinn or DA being “his guy”, so he should’ve drafted his own. sanchez has looked way more confident and impressive than DA or quinn.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
“Mangini didn’t seem to show any confidence in Quinn or DA being ‘his guy’”
This is false. He didn’t show anything either way. His actions dictate what he was thinking, which is clearly that he thought he had a guy in one of them.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
i remember reading a ton of articles saying that mangini wasn’t really sold on either of them.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
Fine. But he obviously didn’t think Sanchez was that guy either. Let him get his guy, but let it be when and how he wants. He obviously didn’t see it in last year’s draft (unless he wanted Stafford), so why not move down, save major cap space AND get all those guys I listed above to provide at least 3 starters and solid depth on a team needing an overall injection of talent. Also, who cares if he had his guy:
Without that trade, you have a huge downgrade at DB, D-line, O-line, WR, and RB. QB may be the most important position, but not by that much.
you make a good point. i just wish this mess at qb would be fixed already. i’m so sick of it.
and thank the lord they didn’t draft stafford. hate him.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
I’m sick of it too, but mostly, I’m sick of talking about it like it is the key to making this a good football team.
Re Stafford- Just saying that was the only guy Mangini could have wanted- if he wanted anyone else he could have had them. And I don’t like him either- I didn’t like either of them.
I dont want him around long enough to pick his guy.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 27, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey Emily good news! We don’t have the longest losing streak right now in the NFL. The Rams are sitting at 13. Woo! GO BROWNS!!
what are we at… 9?
the only winnable games i see are the lions, chiefs, and raiders.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
oh here’s some other good news: the indians season is almost over, so now we only have to deal with having one crappy team! lol.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
and the cavs start this week…thank goodness
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
here’s an idea… if mangini isn’t sure about the starting QB, he should just flip a coin!
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
Said coin will be kept inside a locked safe in a secure area at the Browns’ training facility, lest it be examined by opposing teams who could gain a competitive advantage.
And whoever wins the toss will be pulled at half and replaced by Ratliff.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
This actually made me laugh. Today that is saying something.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just hoping Mangini would do what he said he’d do, make a decision and stick to it. Quinn might go down in flames, but don’t pull the plug on him in a way that continues the QB question. Now everyone’s left thinking “who’s starting next week” again.
by NM Dawg on Sep 27, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
how long should Mangini give Quinn? even the densest person could see he wasn’t effective and hopefully Mangini has more insight into talent than you. If not, we are in very serious trouble.
In case you haven’t noticed, we are in very serious trouble.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Mangini should give BQ the whole season.
At least he has upside potential.
DA had his career year. He’s done.
These people who enjoy the ‘long throw’ interceptions by DA make me laugh.
Anyway, I’ve always thought BQ was like Sipe. Looking back on Sipe’s wiki article, he was benched periodically too.
DA had his career year. He’s done.
I’m really sick of people saying this. There is literally no way of proving that. DA has shown that he can compete. Quinn hasn’t made one iota of progress across his starts. He lacks arm strength and is inaccurate, give it up.
DA has shown he can 3 INTs coming off the bench to save the day. Same old DA.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 28, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
DA’s phenomenal arm strength is used to throw to the other team’s defenders consistently. DA’s accuracy allows him to hit the defenders in the numbers.
I do. Quinn threw half as many picks per completions yesterday. The plays called did not allow either quarterback to throw long. We still haven’t found out if Quinn can even throw a long ball because he hasn’t had enough of those plays called to get experience throwing them in regular season situations. I’d love to see them let him try these on a high percentage of plays, make the many inevitable mistakes, then become more comfortable after a period of looking horrible. He’ll never get comfortable with those throws if they continuously hobble him.
Quinn has shown not one iota of development yet. His passer rating, despite DA’s three picks, was only 12 points higher. That’s appalling. The Browns averaged only one yard less handing Jerome Harrison the ball than they did on Quinn’s completions.
I don’t want to hear that he doesn’t throw deep because the gameplan doesn’t allow it. Anderson threw deep on several occasions. Maybe he wasn’t terribly successful, but that could be from spending two weeks getting few reps in practice. Quinn doesn’t throw deep because he doesn’t trust his arm.
In short, DA has demonstrated in the past that he can be a good NFL quarterback. He’s not yet had a season where he threw more picks than TD’s and his career line coming into this year was 38-27 in favor of touchdowns. His line after 27 games is nearly identical to Drew Beldsoe’s. Give him a chance to regain his form rather than vainly hope that Quinn discovers some.
Quinn doesn’t throw deep because he doesn’t trust his arm.
This is ludicrous and pure conjecture. The very few times he’s thrown the ball long this season it’s been at least average, perhaps above average in strength. The reason Quinn doesn’t throw long is because no one is open (or he’s not seeing the open man), and if he did throw long, well, he’d have 3 picks like DA. You have no evidence that Quinn doesn’t have good/above average arm strength, and there’s literally unlimited evidence on the contrary, in the form of youtube clips showing his play.
Please stop repeating your wild, uninformed guesses. You’ve said it, we get that you think it (in spite of all real evidence).
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
Totally. Lots of great college QBs have cannons for arms and are athletic. Those skills are basically a given for NFL quarterbacks. What differentiates good NFL qbs is accuracy and, probably most importantly, intelligence. Can you make that read in 1.5-2.5 seconds?
Stop talking about arm strength for the love of God.
You have no evidence that Quinn doesn’t have good/above average arm strength
Much like you have literally none that he does. He cannot accurately throw the ball long. He has given us no reason to believe he can. Please stop repeating your condescending, baseless sycophantism.
Actually, please don’t answer this. We’re just going to argue. You aren’t going to convince me, I’m not going to convince you and we’re both just going to get frustrated. I apologize for the barb in the last sentence of that last comment. I’d really like to talk about something other than who the QB is.
How about that sneak on first and ten?
I actually am over the debate. It’s like choosing between poop and diarrhea.
by Roger Dorn on Sep 28, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How about that sneak on first and ten?
THANK YOU! What the hell was that? Is that what this offense has come down to? We are just going to say screw it, lets get 3 yards when we can? Comical.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Also! The burden of proof is on you, because people have seen Quinn throw deep on college tape/ at the combine / in practice/ throw a few 20-25 yarders in NFL game with zipp. Or just the fact that he was drafted in the NFL at all usually means “good arm strength” – mainly because practically all QBs at that have it.
Its the other stuff that makes you a good QB. My IMs quarterback can throw an NFL ball 70 yards. Not that rare.
Whoa, I think you misunderstood fwembt. He said:
Quinn doesn’t throw deep because he doesn’t trust his arm.
Then you said,
You have no evidence that Quinn doesn’t have good/above average arm strength,
I think these are two different things. I agree with both statements. Quinn has thrown a couple balls downfield and they have looked decent, if inaccurate. Quinn isn’t throwing deep because he is unsure of himself. Unsure if his arm can get it there, unsure if the man is open, unsure if he is going to get hit.
The implication behind saying he doesn’t trust his arm is b/c his arm is weak. I didn’t read into fwembt’s post that he doesn’t trust his arm… despite it being strong enough, and I seriously challenge the notion that that’s what he meant. Fwembt has been railing about Quinn’s arm strength being below adequate for months, and it’s not based on anything. However, those of us who argue Quinn’s arm strength is average-above average have basis for our view: evidence in the form of every game film ever recorded on Quinn.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
To wit, Quinn may suck, but it sure as hell isn’t b/c his arm isn’t strong enough.
There are plenty of reasons to argue against him, why make up a false one out of thin air? Argue he makes poor reads, isn’t accurate, doesn’t take enough shots downfield, etc. But don’t make up a wholly fictitious reason and then repeat it 100 times.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
Maybe fwembt thinks Quinn has a weak arm, but that’s not what he was saying here.
I think Quinn’s lack of confidence or trust himself and his arm is a very real and separate issue.
Here’s my theory. Quinn lacks the arm strength to execute an accurate downfield throw. He demonstrates this on a weekly basis by consistently choosing any other option than that throw. He is aware of his limitation and chooses not to expose it. The reason he could air it out in college was the opposition he faced. He didn’t have to throw as hard or be as precise to still connect on a long throw.
I’m aware he can throw the ball a long way, I’m aware that HS QB’s can throw the ball a long way. What I am saying (and I haven’t been saying this for months, mostly just since preseason) is that, on this level, he doesn’t have the pop in his arm to successfully execute a deep throw. Argue all you want, but you cannot point to one NFL throw as evidence. I can.
I’m seeing a throw literally any NFL QB can make. I’m sorry, if that’s the best argument you have. It’s really kind of sad.
30 yards on a rope running backwards off your back foot? Wow, agree to disagree then.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
I actually read an interesting ESPN Magazine article which looked at 30-40 starting QBs in the NFL and a stat machine came up with their three closest comps historically at QB. Ironically, none of the three comps for DA were Drew Bledsoe, which I was expecting to see because you always implied that they were identical.
The comment the magazine left under Anderson’s name was something along the lines of “The large majority of QBs that profile like Anderson are out of the league in a couple years.”
Again, this was done from a purely statistical perspective.
ESPN, always a quality source.
Anderson: 506/927, 55%, 6195 yds, 43 TD, 35 INT, 6.7 Y/A
Brees: 525/882, 59%, 5392 yds, 28 TD, 31 INT, 6 Y/A
Bledsoe: 614/1120, 55%, 7094 yds, 40 TD, 42 INT, 6.3 Y/A
That’s awfully close. The only difference is that Bledsoe threw a bit more. This is after 27 games in their careers.
Bledsoe was 22, Brees was 24, and both were high draft picks with pedigree. Anderson is 26 and a 6th rounder pedigree, with a 54% completion percentage in college.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 29, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s why I generally single out Bledsoe as a comp. He finished with a career rating of 77.1. Not great, but serviceable. I think, think, DA can aspire to that.
i would say this: we’ve disagreed elsewhere (and still do) about the quinn arm strength matter, but what is beyond debate is that quinn has regressed. the best football he’s played as a pro was against SF in ’07. i realize he got injured last year, but he got worse the more he played last year, and then each game this year has been worst than the last.
with his ebbing level of play, and the zero risk/negative reward (no shots downfield, but still manages to throw picks), there is certainly not a lot of reason to think more time would help him get better. once DA took over for frye, he was immediately a positive impact. again, i realize it’s a different situation now, but quinn adds absolutely nothing.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont know BQ showed us early in the begining his ability to throw staight to opposing CB’s. Even DA wouldn’t have attempted that blunder
by North Coast Flea on Sep 28, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Give him a long exposure to real games, maybe 6 or 8 at least. See if there’s anything there, know that for sure, and be able to press on one way or the other. After this season, at least be able to answer the question of whether BQ has any potential to be the starter, or even a competent backup.
Today’s performance was classic DA; he’s had his shot, and he’s not the answer.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Feel like we’re repeating ourselves, Emily? :)
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Cool. I’m feeling like a broken record though, saying it over and over!
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I always felt Quinn should get a full season of starts to get a true evaluation. If he continues to suck then we know for sure he can’t do it and as a result of his suckage we get a high draft pick in a draft rich in QB’s.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 27, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, yes! ben’s no longer mr. perfect in ohio. wow, pitt choked that one away.
they’re 1-2… third in the division.
this has made my day.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
WOW!
2 game losing streak for the Steelers. Sub .500. I love it!
by Michael Jay on Sep 27, 2009 7:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Darn it, just checked the fantasy scores. Drew Brees had a rough (for him) day and I think just handed me my first loss. Unless Patrick Crayton, my #3 WR lights it up tomorrow night.
How’s everyone else’s team looking now with 2 games left to go?
i’m up by 2 points, and still have neil rackers and deangelo williams playing.
but the guy i’m against has tim hightower and steve smith yet to play… so this week will probably be a loss this week. santonio holmes and roddy white combined for 3 measly points :(
this is my first time doing fantasy, so i sort of suck lol.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
Yeah he gave me a loss on my other team.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 27, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry. Have to rant.
So many regime changes…continual FAILURE. Only thing to look at there is ’WHAT’S been the constant…aside from the failure all this time since ‘99?’
Yep, OWNERSHIP. He’s the one who got taken in by Mangini, and while we as fans were ambivalent at best about his hiring…HOWEVER we were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Yes, the season is still young…but the absolute INEPTITUDE of these performances demand that we (even at this early juncture), begin to really wonder about Lerner’s latest coaching choice yet again. I don’t expect much to come of that, no doubt Mangini has convinced Lerner that this is going to take time, ah yes, another ‘5 year plan.’
But GUESS what…I believe after all the sh*t we have been subjected to the last 10 years there should be a demand for more urgency to get this done NOW, as QUICK as possible. These fans are some of the most loyal in football, and to see apathy setting in takes a HELL of alot of effort on the teams part. Congrats, you did it Browns. We really only don’t want to be embarrassed, we would support a COMPETITIVE team I have no doubt. Is it too much to ask not to be a national JOKE, to see our players not only LOSE, but get humiliated, and get to watch our players get ABUSED on ESPN as part of the ‘highlight; reels? Is it too much to ask to want a team that doesn’t look like it needs the Benny Hill theme as a soundtrack?
Anyone who thinks blind ‘support’ is going to change things or help, or that being critical or upset is not ‘being a ’true’ browns fan…well, you go playing for those season tickets to watch this garbage…allow the status quo to continue. You only affect change as fans by hitting them where it hurts…in the WALLET.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 27, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Short answer- a fan boycott is just not going to gain any traction and won’t be effective.
But, I’ll go further-
1.) You have repeated a common mistake. You are way overstating the plight of the Browns since 99. We have had 2 winning seasons in 10 seasons. I’m not saying we shouldn’t be disappointed, but let’s not forget the few successes mixed in, especially when you are considering abandoning the team we love.
2.) Like you said its early. Be frustrated. Yell for a coaching change. Guess what you were heard!!! WE just replaced our GM and coach. This is a rebuilding year. I know the NFL has some history with quick turnarounds, but it is a little ridiculous to expect Mangini to make this team into an instant contender.
3.) We should NOT demand this to be done as quick as possible, but as well as possible. Sustained success is the plan, not a one year wonder. Not sure if we are on our way, but let’s at least have the goal be the Patriots or Steelers and not the 08 Dolphins.
4.) Here is where you really got me. The Browns fans are the most loyal in the world. Go to a Browns Backers bar in any city. Go tailgate at Muni lot. Sit in the Dawg Pound. Sit in the upper deck’s last row. Browns fans had their team ripped from them for 3 years, fought and made sure it came back. We have endured a difficult expansion-team process and 3 rebuilds since. Heartache close losses from Red Right 88 through Bernie’s teams in the 80’s, the Belicheck loss in the playoffs, the close games with Butch Davis and the near playoff run with Romeo. They all hurt. And so have the 2-14 and 4-12 teams. Yet every year, there we are again. Yelling for the team we love. Passionate as ever. To suggest that because we have had less than a year and a half of a non-competetive team we should give up? That is asinine. That we should we should NOT buy a ticket to see them play the rest of the year?? Like I said above: Sorry, you are wrong.
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 28, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
100% agreed. as well…there’s no 30-point play, to quote the great sage and football scholar “horseballs”. this roster was shitty 9 months ago, so why should we be surprised that we’re getting shitty results out of it now?
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Is this really going to be a fight between two dog face avatar bloggers? Because if so…
It will be amazing.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 27, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Looking back, the play calling between the two halves appears pretty similar to me. However, our defense was more successful in the second half, which gave the offense more opportunities. Baltimore might have backed off for the second half, having the game in hand already. If that is the case, Quinn may have been better than DA given the same setting. But, Mangini was too weak to stick it out.
GAME PLAN?!?
What is this…‘game plan’ you speak of?
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 27, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I await Mangina’s press conference with bated breath…
‘Correctable errors.’
‘Study the situation.’ etc. etc. (Note complete lack of emotion)
You’re DAMN right you need to ‘study the situation’…because the SITUATION, coach, SUCKS.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 27, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Folks this team is void of talent. Putting DA in is not going to change a damn thing. You could have Vince Lombardi and Dan Marino on this team and it will not change a thing. This team needs players across the board.
“Folks this team is void of talent.”
I agree. We obviously need to focus on how these players got here in the first place. I guess it’s easy to say the last regime screwed it up…but hey, rey maualuga in a browns uniform would really look alot better than Mack or a receiver who can’t even get on the field right about now.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 27, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
How can I put this differently? The team obviously sucks. The schemes obviously needs work. There is plenty of blame to go around. but it is silly to worry about Savage’s moves- he’s gone. And it is too-darn early to try to evaluate the 2009 draft.
If you really think the signing of Eric Barton or Robert Royal has ruined this team, well, fine. But can we PLEASE quit complaining about a draft class that has all of three games to prove itself.
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 27, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
and i would really love to stop with the maualuga shine-fest around here. he starts at linebacker…for what has been one of the worst defenses in football for the last decade. plus, if you watched any of the cincy game, he got ABUSED several times (most notably the parker td catch, as pointed out above). maybe he will be, but today he is not dick butkus. in fact, he’s not even but dickkus.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
100% agree. Some Browns fans seem to think he was a top-5 talent just because he was a big star at USC. There’s a reason that he fell to the second round in the draft.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
or we could have Mark Sanchez and nothing would change. One thing people need to realize when freaking about Sanchez leading the Jets already.
screw sSanchez I wanted Curry #*@^%$ Seahawks!
by North Coast Flea on Sep 27, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
by the way…sanchez doesn’t even get breathed on wrong. that o-line is freaking nails.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of which you can give credit to Mangini, if you believe that he had say in personnel decisions as I do.
no question. my jet-fan friends say he and tannenbaum were equals as far as the player acquisition process.
i happen to believe sanchez will be an excellent nfl qb (been saying so for a while, for the record), but he ain’t THIS good w/o some parts around him and a great o-line. i betcha quinn would look pretty capable in ny (not necessarily a response to you, roger, but in general)
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Lerner needs to get involved and fire Daboll and Mangini, then make Special Teams Corrdinator/ Assistant Head Coach Brad Seely the new head coach.
I’m sick of this charade….Lerner must act now otherwise the fans will act out in a violent manner.
http://dawgscooper.blogspot.com/
Dawg Scooper: An Unofficial Cleveland Browns News Source
Lerner should give Mangini a five year extension. As I’ve said before, blowing shit up solves nothing.
Yeah, but stacking more shit on that shit simply equals more shit.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 27, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Man, can we get a middle option here?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 27, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe polish the shit we have or spray some perfume on it…
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 27, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
We tried that by putting Cribbs in at #2
by North Coast Flea on Sep 27, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not saying we should fire the guy right now, but this team is NOT playing for Mangini. They ran out of gas in week 1. They quit in the second half in week 2. The didn’t come to play at ALL in week 3. Do you honestly think this situation will be getting better as we go?
Mangini can play the hard ass role all he wants, but this team isn’t responding. 5 complaints and a complete lack of effort is not something that can be ignored.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Coughlin was like that and backed off a bit in the hardass department and they won a SB…of course, the browns aren’t exactly the Giants but I suppose it can’t get any worse at this point anyways. He doesn’t have to turn into Romeo but sometimes ego distorts your perspective. I think we might have that here with Mangini.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 27, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I would be shocked to see Mangini change.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too. I think with a guy like Mangini criticism will only make him more set in his ways.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 27, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I love Cleveland fans. The biggest problems with the Indians and Browns are Larry Dolan and Randy Lerner, respectively.
by Roger Dorn on Sep 27, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yes, he cares so much that he bought a team with the greatest basketball player on the planet. That must have been difficult to field a winner.
haha. he’s making moves to make sure the greatest bball player stays here, though, isn’t he?
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
I’m just saying, it’s really easy to build around Lebron James. I am convinced Randy Lerner could do the same if given that kind of talent.
Who have the benefit of working around Lebron James. I am not saying they are not good at what they do, but it’s a lot easier when you have Lebron.
PS I like Ferry, but think Brown is weak.
This town hated Ferry to begin with and people were calling for Brown’s head when we lost to the Magic. It’s the same idiots every time.
i like both ferry & brown. i don’t really see a problem with either of them.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
I understand that. But you aren’t the only citizen of Cleveland. Add to that the fact that you (sort of) speak the language and you are well up on most of the cleveland.com and WKNR call-in crowd.
the reason why i said my comment below, is because with all these replies i thought you were replying to me, saying that i was one of those people calling for brown’s head. sorry, i wasn’t trying to be repetitive.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
Oh please. I hope that was a joke. If you don’t think Dolan or Lerner cares about their teams then, well, you’re an idiot.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 27, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
i wasn’t really talking about lerner in that statement, more about dolan. he traded away a good bit of our talent, including one of the faces of the franchise. for what? some crappy, unproven minor league prospects who are injured or are just coming off of surgery. wow, impressive. he’s turning the indians into a farm league for the rest of the mlb.
so yeah, i think gilbert cares more about the cavs than dolan cares about the indians. if you think that makes me an idiot, well that’s your opinion. i think it’s more idiotic to be insulting people on a message board, but that’s just me.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
i wasn’t really talking about lerner in that statement, more about dolan. he traded away a good bit of our talent, including one of the faces of the franchise. for what? some crappy, unproven minor league prospects who are injured or are just coming off of surgery. wow, impressive.
I don’t know where to begin here.
1. Larry Dolan doesn’t trade anyone
2. Remember the Bartolo Colon trade? We trade away a good bit of our talent for some crappy, unproven minor league prospects. Who were those prospects do you ask? Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips. I’d say that worked out.
Trading away veterans nearing their contract year is the reality of small-market baseball. Not only is it the reality, but also the correct move 10 out of 10 times. IF you don’t understand this, then I would suggest not talking about things you don’t really know about it.
let me rephrase: dolan and shapiro have killed this franchise.
i didn’t agree with trading vmart or cliff lee. vmart was one of the faces of the franchise and one of my favorite players. yeah, cliff lee worked out. but what did they do with him? traded him. they gave away a cy young winner away for nothing. philly got the better end of that deal by a long shot. and i do remember the bartolo colon trade. those trades don’t always work, though. i looked up the stats of the players that they got for vmart and cliff lee and was pretty unimpressed.
i’m just not big on dolan in general. you have your opinion. i have mine. let’s leave it at that.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
dolan may not be doing the trading, but he’s pretty much forcing shapiro to do it in order to save $$$.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
Not true at all. You really shouldn’t discuss this if you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Dolan has spent much more on payroll than Dick Jacobs ever did. The problem with baseball is the unfair economic setup of the game — it’s not Dolan’s fault that he can’t spend the money that the big-market teams do. If you can’t understand that basic idea then I can’t help you.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 27, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
whatever, i’m not going to argue with you guys. it’s pointless. i don’t like dolan… you do. fine with me. but yeah, i agree with what you said about the economic set-up of the game.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
But you have no valid reason to dislike Dolan, other than you think he’s “cheap” when all facts contradict that belief. I don’t like hearing Indians fans complain about Dolan not spending enough money when they have no clue what they’re talking about.
The Indians traded Lee and Martinez because that’s what they need to do to win a championship down the road. It’s not because they’re “cheap”. Spending big money on players in their 30’s is foolish.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 27, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, it’s ok. i don’t know a ton about baseball other than the basics, so it was kind of stupid for me to say anything in the first place about it. a lot of what i had read on forums and in articles was anti-dolan, so that’s where i got my info basically…
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
i looked up the stats of the players that they got for vmart and cliff lee and was pretty unimpressed.
Oh, well, you were unimpressed by their stats?!? Why don’t you check out Grady Sizemore’s minor league stats and tell me what you think of him at the time of the trade.
Small-market teams have to trade expensive veterans for young prospects. That’s the only way to win in the unfair system of baseball. They didn’t give them away for nothing. Just because you haven’t heard of the players doesn’t mean they’re not going to be great some day. Sizemore, Lee, Hafner, Choo, Cabrera and many other players were unkown prospects that Shapiro has aquired in his time with the Indians. Trading for prospects is one of the things he does best. You can certainly criticize some of Shapiro’s moves, but he’s still considered one of the better GM’s in baseball.
You’re entitled to you opinion, but if it’s based on ignorance then you might want to think of changing your opinion.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 27, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
“Just because you haven’t heard of the players doesn’t mean they’re not going to be great some day.”
i didn’t say they wouldn’t be good. i just did not like the trades for martinez or cliff lee, mostly because i really liked both of them. since they were such good players, i would’ve thought that they would have at least gotten some proven guys in return, if that makes sense. victor was a leader for the team, and the fact he wanted to stay with the tribe for his whole career, even while the indians weren’t doing so well, really said a lot about him. it just sucked to see them go. i just felt like this season dolan and shapiro really let a ton of their talent go and they shouldn’t have.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
But teams like the Indians need to trade veterans for young prospects (and a lot of them), not “proven” players. First of all, teams aren’t going to want to give up any proven players that good. Secondly, young players who are many years away from free agency are the most valuable resources in baseball because they’re cheap. You trade a guy like Lee for 3 or 4 prospects and hope that one or two turn out to be great and the other guys can be average. That’s how baseball works for small-market teams.
It would be nice if Martinez could have been with the Indians for his whole career but it just doesn’t happen that way. You can’t be mad at Shapiro for doing what he needed to do to improve the franchise. And, honestly, it wouldn’t have been smart for the Indians to sign him to another big contact in 2010 when he’s a free agent anyways. He’ll be in his 30’s and on the downside of his career, and as I said above small-market teams just can’t afford to sign old players to big contacts, because those have been shown to be the least cost-effective players. It’s a fact of baseball.
Trust me, I don’t like losing Lee and Martinez either, but you need to understand that that’s how teams like the Indians need to operate in baseball these days to be successful. It’s how Shapiro built the 90-win teams of 2005 and 2007 and it’s how he’s going to build our next playoff teams.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 27, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
i didn’t mean “proven” players as in like… let’s trade cliff lee for one of philly’s best starting pitchers. but i think you knew what i meant.
alright, you have good points there. sorry if i appeared ignorant since you do know more about baseball than i do. i guess i shouldn’t have said anything in the first place.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
That’s okay, I’m sorry if I sounded harsh. I just don’t like hearing Indians fans complain that Dolan is a bad owner when he’s actually not. He spends the money that he’s able to and he has (what most people consider) a good front office and lets them do their job. It’s not easy trading star players — for the exact views that you’re expressing — but he lets Shapiro do what he thinks will improve the team.
As I mentioned, the real problem is baseball’s economic system which puts teams like the Indians at a disadvantage when it comes to the money they can spend. You should be mad at the system which baseball has enacted, not at Dolan. He wants to win just as much as any of us do.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 27, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
nah, it’s fine. you’ve actually improved my knowledge of baseball, so thanks. i definitely get what you’re saying though. and i definitely hate how, like you said, the economic system puts teams at a disadvantage. the yankees, red sox, etc. piss me off so much haha.
sweet profile pic btw.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
Even when the Tribe was good we were a farm team for the rest of baseball you could write a whole book of MLB greats who started out in Cleveland in the 90’s never got a fair shot with the tribe and then went on to be All Stars
by North Coast Flea on Sep 27, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, yeah . . . but the reason that guys like Giles and Sexson never had much of a chance to play with the Indians was because we had so many great players that there wasn’t a place for them to play. And it’s not like we gave them away — we traded them for other players to help our team. Now, some of those trades didn’t turn out well, but that doesn’t mean we were a “farm team for the rest of baseball”.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 27, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, at least the Indians have an excuse. With the way baseball is set up the Indians pretty much have to be perfect to even have a chance at the post season, let alone win a title. One or two bad moves and they are crippled and forced to blow it all up and start over again. They simply can’t spend like Boston, New York and Chicago.
The Browns really have no excuse with the way the NFL is set up. To not be able to find one cornerstone every year Pro Bowl type player in ten years like a Troy Polumalu or Derrick Brooks or Walter Jones is pathetic (Lets cross our fingers on Joe Thomas). To not even be able to string a few years of 8-8 seasons is beyone pathetic. How many coaches have we had? Has any QB started every game in a season yet? How many different QBs have we had? You know Bradford and McCoy are praying we don’t pick them.
When the Indians crater out every year it sucks but I just kinda shrug it off. Wish I could summon the same kind of apathy when it comes to the Browns. They are like a car crash ont he side of the highway. You just can’t help but look. Looks like a 13 more wasted Sundays.
To not be able to find one cornerstone every year Pro Bowl type player in ten years like a Troy Polumalu or Derrick Brooks or Walter Jones is pathetic (Lets cross our fingers on Joe Thomas).
I think you are selling Joe Thomas very short. He is the best LT in the NFL. Ask Jared Allen (Zero sacks) and Terrell Suggs (Zero sacks). He is a cornerstone.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I like to call it the Calvin Johnson rule. Awesome players can play on horrible offenses. I may change it to the Steven Jackson rule.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Thomas probably will turn out to be a great player but remember he had a great rookie year and a so-so follow up. He has started out pretty good negating a couple of great pass rushers but since the offense as a whole looks so bad I’m reluctant to call anyone who’s a part of it a great player.
When people say that about Lerner it makes my skin crawl. Lerner spends on FA’s and stays the hell out of the way. Who do you people want as owner? A Mark Cuban/Jerry Jones type? Because the only difference is that those owners act like assholes.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
We want him to hire better staff.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 27, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s fine, but to want a different owner is crazy. For him to do a better job hiring is cool.
Mike Brown hired his daughter. It could be worse.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed…but savage was at the top of everyone’s “execs on the rise” list in ‘04, and romeo was thought to be a big time coaching hire. they didn’t work out, and for that lerner must be held accountable, but hindsight is hard at work on this one.
mangini / kotnkus (sp) get an “incomplete” so far…obviously, their success (or lack thereof) will be telling about lerner’s ability to hire staff.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok well, even if he DOES spend on FA’s and stay the hell out of the way, the people he HIRES to stay out of the way of and to SPEND that money have been, overall, horrendous. THAT’S a problem.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 27, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
That is not a reason enough to want your owner to sell the team.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The Lerner family may have made what turned out to be nothing but shitty hires so far (jury has to still be out on ManKock) but we are better off with Lerner than jackass/egomaniac like Al Davis or Jerry Jones or a cheap ass like Mike Brown. Or maybe we can get the Gunds to buy the Browns so they can trade away a great player because they like rap music.
Good Game
We are on fire while you guys are still figuring out some major position issues. At least the Steelers lost, right? Cya in Cleveland later on.
You have to hate losing more than you love winning.
Good game, fellas!
It was about what we all expected. Hopefully, this game will teach Cleveland something about their quarterbacks if nothing else. After this game, I’m not sure if either quarterback should be starting in the NFL.
One quick question… Do you guys feel like it’s bad quarterback play, bad coaching… or something else? I’ve thought many things about the Browns over the years, but up until this game, I didn’t think that both of their quarterbacks were THAT bad.
really tough to say. Quinn and Anderson have such opposite strengths and weaknesses. But, I really feel Mangini realized through camp and preseason that he doesn’t have an NFL starter on the team- I think that’s why he didn’t name a starter until the last minute. I don’t blame him for not realizing this right away, he needed to find out what he had.
That said, by week 3 I would have hoped Daboll and the coaching staff could have figured out a way to utilize their strengths and avoid the weaknesses of the QBs. They haven’t and that is a major failure
Finally, for the development of Anderson AND Quinn they have never had a well respected QB guy to work with. The coordinators and 3rd string QBs since they have joined the teams are TE guys, no-names, and guys who never had NFL success. I’d really like to see what an experienced QB would say with these young guys- their development has been stunted, and I don’t think the potential was ever that high to begin with.
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 28, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Here is my quick run down on the situation, sorry if some of these have been said before.
1. Quinn should have been left in. Mangini had all preseason to fiddle around with this crap. Yes Quinn played poorly, but we needed to stick to one QB. This will be what the 7th straight year with a QB debate? I thought Mangini was going to stick with his guy.
2. This team looks like it has quit. The effort was pathetic in some parts. Tackling was sloppy and half hearted. I think this team is starting to not believe in its coaching. That is a major problem.
3. This team hates Mangini. The greivences and the effort level show this. A lot of coaches are hated (Parcells, Coughlin) which is fine IF THE TEAM BUYS INTO the coaching. Tony Dungy said on Football on Sunday Night that the Browns look like a team that has quit on their Coach (I am paraphrasing).
4. Brandon McDonald should be benched for his effort on a couple of tackles. He was totally fine with running next to Mcgahee as he ran down the field for an extra 10 yards.
5. Robo and Massaquoi can’t be on the bench for these games. Let them get some game day action. I don’t care if they are “ready” or not. It’s not like Furrey and Cribbs are killing it.
6. Cribbs needs to gameplanned around. Screens, reverses, anything.
7. The screen for Vickers was my breaking point. we ran a screen for a guy who has questionable hands at best.
8. Harrison and Davis need to be our RB’s. As for Jamal Lewis, we can finish in last without ya too buddy.
9. I wish I was wrong, but I think that the Bengals will blow the doors off the Browns next week.
10. I know that a lot of people on here are going to say it is way to early, but I think that Mangini is one and done. The fans are going to stop coming to see this team and I don’t blame them. This team needs some new blood.
I don’t think I have ever been less excited about the Browns. That is the hardest thing about this. I don’t see how it is going to get better.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 8:59 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I agree with most everything, I just am really not that high on Cribbs as an offensive player. I think he is very raw, and a lot of his plays go for nothing.
I agree. I don’t think that he is a #2 WR. But he needs to get the ball in space. If we have a screen designed for Vickers we sure as hell better have 10 designed for Cribbs is all I am saying. The coaching staff should design plays around his abilities.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
i don’t think you’re way off here…but i do think you’re wrong about the team quitting. they may hate mangini (it sure sounds like they do), but i don’t believe they’ve quit. for example, shaun rogers, a guy who’s had a reputation for mailing it in over his entire football life, exploded 2 guys and registered a TFL in, like, the last 6 minutes (it was so late, in fact, i found myself wondering "why the hell is 92 still in the game) of the game. to me, that is not indicative of quitting…and i believe rogers to be one of the leaders in the locker room at this point.
if the browns go 2-14 or worse (i now expect them to test that 2 win level), and cowher is willing to come on down, say goodbye to mangini.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
While Shaun may have made a great play, the complete and total lack of effort, (in my view), shows that most of this team has quit on Mangini.
I never never seen a NFL team look that dead in a week 3 game. Week 3! If this continues how bad will the effort look in week 14?
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish that someone would have taken me aside in 2004
and told me that Kyle Boller sucked and would never be an NFl caliber starter. (then of course, i would have been able to release him and guide the team in a new direction :)
Well Cleveland, Brady Quinn sucks. Waste no more time or hope on him. DA should be given the reigns for the next two years at which point he will be relieved by the kick ass world beater quarterback that you draft this spring.
sorry.
Question:
I never watched any Lions games last season. But of course we all know they went 0-16. Did anyone who watched their games think we’re still better than Lions 08?
That team lost a couple of close games. Close games would be an unexpected suprise at this point.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I did. I have the nfl ticket so yeah…I watched alot of their games (they’re my second favorite team—hows THAT for misery). I have NO doubt they would have beaten the browns of LAST year AND this year.
That’s not good then. Cause the only thing running through my mind now is that, at least the Lions scored TDs.
Well, i shouldn’t say ‘no doubt’ bc it’s tough to speculate on that, but my impressions are yes, both teams would lose to last years lions.
by johnnyphoenix on Sep 27, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
The Lions did play hard most of the time. that is something I doubt about this squad right now.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 27, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
ok so i just looked up some BQ highlights on youtube from notre dame and it is evident that he can, in fact, throw the ball downfield. so…………yea. im not sure arm strength is the biggest issue here. receivers/coaching perhaps?
I have nothing to say
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 27, 2009 10:59 PM EDT reply actions
I’m still extremely pissed off….
http://dawgscooper.blogspot.com/
Dawg Scooper: An Unofficial Cleveland Browns News Source
Disappointed? Sure.
Upset? Maybe.
“Extremely pissed off”? Seriously?
by e.c. matter on Sep 28, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Surely seeing the Steelers fall to 1-2 somewhat brightened your day?
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 27, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I love it anytime I can say “At least the Steelers lost”
by North Coast Flea on Sep 27, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I actually dislike the Ravens more than the Steelers. I always feel like that should be our team with Ozzie running the show, they will always be dead last for me.
by Roger Dorn on Sep 28, 2009 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I could not agree more with your Ravens statement!
I despise them more than the Steelers too and I actually hate them more than I hate the Yankees.
http://dawgscooper.blogspot.com/
Dawg Scooper: An Unofficial Cleveland Browns News Source
agreed and I really hate the yankees
by North Coast Flea on Sep 29, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually he has two souls. With different names.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 29, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if it’s just me but can someone tell me how the combination of a back that went 16 attempts for 52 yards and one that had 5 attempts for 10 yards, half of which on one play qualifies as better that Jamaul Lewis. “Oh you can’t judge BQ on his losses last year because he only played a couple game” but all the sudden in one game evreyones on the ship out Jamaul wagon?
by North Coast Flea on Sep 27, 2009 11:32 PM EDT reply actions
First, a ton of us weren’t EVER on the Jamal as a Brown wagon in the first place. And most who were on at one time have jumped off way, way before this week.
And even if you think he has another solid year or two in him (for which I would call you crazy), who cares? This team isn’t going anywhere this year. Davis and Harrison are the future- or at least have the chance to be. Lewis does not.
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 28, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Between the tackles, Lewis is our best runner, period. He still has the ability to shed tackles and stay upright in a clogged field, our lack of a right side of our line is what’s hinderring him, BQ, DA, Harrison, and Davis
by North Coast Flea on Sep 29, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree. Harrison looked better running between the tackles with that same line Sunday. And besides, my point was even if Lewis is still better between the tackle, we obviously aren’t competing for this year. We are trying to build something for next year and the year after that. It’s time to give Davis and Harrison the carries and experience.
Building: Probably my mantra to try to keep my sanity for the rest of the season.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 29, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Simple. Jamal’s expiration date is nearing, regardless. We need to find out what we’ve got in Davis and Harrison. Thus far it looks like they’ve got some potential. Let’s find out, so we know before next year’s acquisition opportunities.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 28, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Sad But True
But this controversy is liking being faced with the choice of intense stomach cramps or a pounding headache.
The choices are so horrible that there’s little pint in arguing over it.
we don’t deserve this, we kept the cleveland browns in cleveland, because we love this team. they wouldn’t have their jobs right now if it weren’t for us the fans that love this team. this franchise needs to show some appreciation for our dedication, this is ludicrous!
by athensdawg2 on Sep 28, 2009 12:51 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah! They need to stop intentionally losing just to piss us off! This is ridiculous! Like last week, when Lerner said that all of Cleveland could just suck it! That pissed me off! And then when we actually hired them all and paid all of their salaries and they still intentionally lose, just to spite us. That pisses me off!
They couldn’t possibly be trying to turn this around because that is the only way to run a successful franchise! No way! They intentionally hire fat, sloppy, fatties to make us losers! They don’t love this team! They intentionally lose millions of dollars on things they don’t love just to piss off the people that do love them!
Let’s fire them now! All of them!
What’s that you say? We have nothing to do with whether they have jobs or not? They are probably attempting to get this thing on the right track so as not to alienate the people who help them make a profit? Oh, well never mind then. I’m just another idiot incapable of thinking logically.
by Brad D on Sep 28, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
I have to say… I appreciated the move to put in DA… the same as I appreciated it when Romeo benched Frye… there comes a point as you are watching a game where you are absolutely sure that the quarterback is just not going to give you a chance to win… and this was clearly the case in today’s game… quinn’s play put this team in such a deep trench… that there was no way that this was going to be anything other than a route… after the first possession… if this is what you are getting from your quarterback play… Man up and say that you made a mistake… and put the other idiot in… I am not even a DA supporter… but that at least brought a spark to the offense… when he is in… the Defense has to respect his ability to get the ball downfield… He might not always make the right choice in that respect… but it beats the alternative… of having a defense place all 11 guys inside the box…
Im also not sure how you could be upset about the draft… I would have liked to get sanchez… in retrospect… and they could have gotten more out of the jets… for that pick… but this team would not have been much help to sanchez…. here… without a line… and without a running game… he would struggle… you have to give a team the time they need to rebuild before selecting a franchise QB…
the line hasn't been that bad..
it’s the ravens, how much time do you get? i sat yelling at the tv to get rid of the ball on many occasions, the line is not perfect, but they are giving time.
Three points of spark, with 3 INTs. And now our ‘quarterback controversy’ is back.
Other idiot, indeed.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 28, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
use the reply button- you have lost everyone.
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 28, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Ha, I was thinking about him this weekend as well.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Mangini's personal attributes!
When you have a coach like Eric Mangini who has proven over the last couple of years that he has few personal attributes that would lead to being a decent football coach, don’t expect his players to really believe in him and put out for him. Eric has proven that he is a disloyal, underhanded, back stabbing person, who is not beneath throwing his team and a game, under the bus to prevent a third team [Patriots] from making the playoffs.
The latest early info regarding not reporting injuries last year with the Jets, and interfering with another teams attempt to sign a player is another indication that this is the kind of guy you would not want living in your neighborhood, never mind coaching a struggling football team.
I venture to say that you know next to nothing about Eric Mangini as a person.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
And this is apropos of what? I don’t think Mangini has shown ANY of the attributes you quote here. The idea that turning in a cheater displays disloyalty is completely preposterous. The injury reporting thing dates back to Bill Parcells originally, which is why the NFL changed the rule. Maybe you should read what Favre had to say about it. I don’t care whether you like him as a coach, but to smear him personally is inappropriate unless, as Brad says, you have personal knowledge of his actions. Do you?
interfering with another teams attempt to sign a player
fiction certainly can be fun… what in the name of zeus are you talking about here? is this the crabtree thing? b/c, small fyi, mangini hasn’t had anything to do w/ the jets since, oh, january-ish
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Peter King 2-14
I reluctantly agree; it seems to me the coaches don’t have a clue. Being a die hard Browns fan, who’s hoping they can come back even after being down three td in third qt. This Raven game brought me to this conclusion.
Time for a change Mangini&Daboll
coaches is a dime a dozen. so lets start shopping ; it’s not to late Mangini&Daboll catch the first thing smoking. that is out of CLEVELAND!!
I’m honestly willing to give Mangini a pass on his W-L record this year, but at some point a core group of players has to step up and start performing well for him. They don’t have to be stars, but there have to be players who show they believe in what he is doing and back it up with the energy and execution they bring to the field.
If what he’s doing is disrespectful, close-minded or even downright rude, why would anyone believe in it?
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
Well, because they think it’s going to be successful, eventually. Of course the way things have been going that’s going to be a harder and harder sell, but people will follow a**holes if they think those a**holes are going to lead them to success.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 28, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Parcells has had previous success. Same as Billacheat. Ditto Coughlin. Mangini, not so much.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
But those guys have gotten results, and for the most part quickly. Coucghlin took the Jags to the playoffs, Parcells has done it time and time again.
Unless you want to call one season of playoffs success in the case of Mangini, he is lacking.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
He was head coach there 8 years and he went to the playoffs 4 times. Made the AFC championship game twice. Started with an expansion team.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Previous real world results aside, if you believe the a**hole is on the right track, you drink the Kool-Aid. How much of that’s faith and how much logic varies from case to case.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 28, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally agree. Anyone else notice that Quinn didn’t know that he wasn’t starting the second half until he was going back out on the field after half time? If Mangini was going to make the switch at half, shouldn’t the coaching staff tell the players and make ADJUSTMENTS at halftime? Not after it?
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
"Tackling Optional"
That’s what the Olberman called the Browns defense while airing highlights on NBC.
First time I ever agreed with him.
This very well could be the worst team in the NFL. No offense,, no defense, terrible coaching and a complete lack of spirit…
And it’s only week 3. None of us expected to beat the Ravens, but at least they could have showed up today.
QB
Brady Quinn is horrible on third down. It’s pretty much that simple. For whatever reason he can’t (or isn’t being given the gameplan necessary to) move the chains. And because he can’t move the chains, our defense is getting killed on a constant basis and I’m sick of it.
Another reason why the defense might have quit is because they spend so long on the field because they know they have a chump QB who can’t do anything offensively on his own. It wouldn’t matter if the D held every team that played to Browns to 7 points. We’d still lose because we can’t score.
We never should have changed up QB. It was a terrible decision. But for whatever reason, something prompted the change. We weren’t getting it done with Quinn.
DA came into that game down by 20 and was only told he was going in when jogging onto the field. Against one of best defenses in the NFL and with no running game or second wide receiver to support him. So yeah he threw 3 picks. So? We were losing that game comfortably at that point. All DA did was hand us an even bigger loss, but at least it showed some balls to go and try and take the game with our downfield option, rather than let them slowly strangle us to death.
DA should start now that the change has been made, period. Defenses aren’t afraid of us because we don’t have any options. We need to stretch the field and make some big plays. DA gives us the chance to do that.
by Terrible Terry Tate on Sep 28, 2009 10:12 AM EDT reply actions
You really think defenses are afraid of DA? Afraid they’ll get fewer picks than the last team we played, maybe.
Sorry, just feeling bitter. Carry on.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 28, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
My Take
Look, we have a new QB in Quinn (letting him sit two years while allowing DA to suck was f’ing stupid), we have a new coach with a new system who is going to need at least a year to get his players and his style integrated (sorry, that’s how it is), and once again we have a BAD O-line (you CAN’T win without an O-line!!!).
The Browns have had too damned much change over the last decade. Time for some consistency. Leave Quinn in and let him take his lumps this year, draft the hell out of some real blockers up front and for god’s sake get somebody that can help Shawn Rogers and Eric Wright on D (preferebly before they die of old age).
We gave DA an arsenal of weapons last year and he consistently threw behind his receivers. His ship has sailed. DA proved once again yesterday that he’s a career second string.
Look at the bright side. Our three loses are against teams that are 3-0 now.
Maybe those teams are just that damn good, and we’re not as bad as we think we are.
lol
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 28, 2009 12:18 PM EDT reply actions
an arsenal of weapons!?
yeah we sure miss steptoe, shaffer, j. wright and kw2. you my friend are delusional. da threw 3 int’s and still out gained quinn by 60 yards. i’m not saying da is the answer, but quinn surely is not!
60 more yards in the second half of a blowout.
In a few games, when DA throws critical picks for a couple weeks straight and starts missing wide open guys 7 yards away, who are people going to be screaming for? Ratliff? Quinn Mk. II?
Around and around the mulberry bush we go. Just like last year.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 28, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that the one half should be enough to make any conclusions, but 3 INTs are way more important than 60 yards.
fair … but w/ DA you at least have the potential that he could screw up and throw a TD after racking up those extra 60 yards. quinn never has the team anywhere close to the end zone.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
SELLTHEBROWNS.COM
created this site last night after the game.
www.SellTheBrowns.com
Its only 12 hours old and a little bare but we need people to join NOW.
thanks!
js
Yea, I will pass. I’d rather have a perennial 0-16 team than risk the Browns leaving Cleveland.
by Roger Dorn on Sep 28, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Forget it. I want the Browns in Cleveland, and I can’t see a mass action anyway after three games, no matter how horrid they’ve been.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 28, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Ditto. New ownership won’t fix this. Now a new coach… maybe it isn’t to early to start contemplating that. I’ll tell you if I were a coach looking to re-enter the league I’d have my agent calling Learner right now.
Brownsyup
….and here I was going to say stopped clock.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 28, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I reject the idea that these hires have been so awful. I mean, the results haven’t been great, but at the time Phil Savage was touted as one of the best college talent evaluators from a very good organization and Romeo Crennell had a handful of Super Bowl rings as a Defensive Coordinator. Mangini was about .500 in New York and looked to have his time there cut short for reasons beyond his control.
I mean, Rex Ryan looks great and all, but if he was hired and then struggled, people would be crying that we got another guy without head coaching experience in the NFL. Sometimes retreads looks better, sometimes the hot coordinator looks better, but the guy isn’t hiring his daughter (mike brown) or refusing to fire people after they clearly don’t work (mike brown, ford family).
I was for the Savage hire, and as I explained elsewhere an outside consultancy firm placed him for the Browns. I am a Savage apologist. I actually thought it was poor, nay, terrible management to fire him, especially so if it was for a perceived lack of “professionalism.” And this isn’t mentioned much, but the fact that his job was in jeopardy for even one second because of Collins is a joke. I also thought it was poor management to not delegate the Head Coach as the primary conduit to the media from the organization. Savage was green and he hired the uber-experienced Crennel as his coach to offset that, however, Phil still wanted to get in front of the camera. That was a poor decision by Phil’s boss (Lerner). And the Mangini hire speaks for itself. I was against it from the get go, and you’re kidding yourself if you think he was a coach in high demand.
To wit, Lerner’s had one good moment as a manager, and that he outsourced to others (the hire of Savage). Everything else (ie, everything he’s done on his own) has been a blunder (Collins/Savage, Savage firing, Mangini hiring… not to mention the sins of his father, who knows what he had to do with Palmer and Butch).
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
Yeah, I’m sure that website is going to convince Lerner that he needs to sell the Browns. Way to show him!!
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No worries man, I’m bitter too. I just isn;t working at the moment.
But I still think, the thing with DA is, he got us 10 wins. That’s basically my logic. He came in when no-one expected him to do anything and got us to 10 wins. We nearly made the play-offs and we’ve sucked for a decade. WE NEARLY MADE THE PLAY-OFFS! We beat Cincy with Palmer behind center and we beat Baltimore! We scored 51 points against Cincy!
Instead of appreciating that, we were calling for his head after a number of bad games in 08, all because we had an option that we perceived as being better. Well we’re seeing that option play out right now and it has gotten really ugly really fast because he can’t convert third downs.
Had Braylon caught half the throws he should have in 08, I don’t think DA would ever have been benched. And fair enough, I don’t think he’s a long-term answer unless he improves his decision making and can make short throws. But right now, I’m liking him better than Quinn. My personal opinion on Quinn is that he’s not ready. Maybe he will be in time, but right now I don’t think he is. I stress, that’s my own opinion. I saw an interview with him recently and he was talking about how getting to classes in college helps him relate to the NFL and it made me feel very uneasy about just how ready he is to be a leader of men. Not to mention that he fell in the draft in the first place and that he and JaMarcus Russell are making that draft class look like a really bad one.
At least DA, for all his many faults, coould throw TD passes that won us games.
On the other hand, he did have Joe Jurevicius helping him, Mr Third Down that year.
by Terrible Terry Tate on Sep 28, 2009 1:55 PM EDT reply actions
there was actually only 1 throw that braylon needed to hang onto for DA’s sake, and it was the one against baltimore.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
that dallas one was a horrible, horrible drop…but i think the nail in DA’s coffin was the balt one. it was a miserable loss, pretty much entirely attributable (as much as one play can be the difference) to that play. and that loss pretty much ended DA’s year.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 29, 2009 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I hate to get into the whole rant thing again so I’ll just limit to analysis:
1. Seeing Anderson enter the game confused the heck out of me. I though coach Mangini was committed to Quinn. What happened? If we don’t see Anderson start against Cincy I’m going to start thinking that we need another reset… amazing after 4 games.
2. I think Anderson moved the team better than Quinn. He looked more comfortable in the pocket and bought himself more time with small movement. He made throws that we haven’t seen Quinn make and that I doubt we’ll ever see Quinn make.
3. DA’s interceptions were extremely troubling given the fact that he has been a starter in over a dozen games. Even so, I want to see more of him rather than Quinn. Seeing someone make some throws is better than seeing someone mainly throw to backs who are behind the line of scrimmage. Think about Farvre this week… he throws a miracle pass that easily could have been picked off. Had it been, we’d be talking about how unreliable he is, etc. But if he had never thrown it a la Quinn… the Vikings would have lost. DA, I believe, gives you that chance to win by pure dumb luck. Quinn gives you no chance for this team to win.
4. The defense is not playing disciplined. They are getting caught out of position and are clustering around the ball leaving big gaps to run/pass into. The tackling looks almost intentionally bad as if they were mugging it for the camera in one of those “comedy” sports films like Waterboy.
5. I thought penalties, especially stupid penalties before the snap would be minimized under coach Mangini. Nope.
6. I haven’t really seen what I would call a game plan in any of the games so far.
7. Coaching during the game seems lacking. Why didn’t we go on 4th and one when trailing by a lot? A quarterback sneak on 1st down?
I couldn’t imagine myself thinking like this after only 3 games, all of which were against fairly elite opponents who haven’t lost a game yet. I set myself up to be accepting of a poor start this season because of the tougher schedule. But the way they are losing is so discouraging. There isn’t must to instill hope and much to quash it. I’ll keep watching and looking for the good because I’m a fan but if things don’t get better in the next few games I’ll be looking for something drastic to happen—i.e. some kind of firing of someone major in the organization.
Brownsyup
by Brownsyup on Sep 28, 2009 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I agree with all this. I understand DA is FAR from perfect, but at least he gives us a chance.
Last year I drove six hours to Cleveland for the BAL game; I was sickened by the fans’ negativity towards DA. We were WINNING at halftime, at yet so many people booed him when he came out for the second half! I’m sure everyone remembers the INT on the screen pass that effectively ended the game, but what about the perfectly thrown bomb to Edwards that he dropped on the 2 yd line. That would have changed everything.
Yet all this blind faith in BQ? Why? Because he’s from Ohio? Because he played at Notre Dame? Because he’s pretty?
I don’t get it.
I was sickened by the fans’ negativity towards DA. We were WINNING at halftime, at yet so many people booed him when he came out for the second half!
It was a tie game and the Browns TD came off a Cribbs return. Anderson had one decent drive in the first half of that game. You forget to mention that the Browns had four three and outs followed by an INT to end that game.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
and by the way I did mention the interception, and one of the 3 and outs was because of Edwards’ drop of a TD.
If your trying to tell me that Derek Anderson was not a major reason for this football team sucking last year, don’t bother.
I am not saying it was all his fault, it was far from that, but I have seen enough of DA to know that he isn’t worth building around. Now is the time to see is Quinn is. 10 quarters of football this season isn’t enough IMO. Shouldn’t we find out right now if we need to take Bradford next April?
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
i know. i would love to avoid that as well. we need to focus on our defensive and offensive line!
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
If Bradford is available and healthy, i would love to see in Cleveland.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
if the rams have a worse record than the browns, they’re taking him.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
Because Eric Berry is the most talented player. You should usually draft the Best available when your team sucks.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 28, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
A safety needs to be really, really, really good to be drafted in the top 3. They rarely get drafted that high.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes those two would, but that’s very rare. If you pick a safety that high you had better be very, very certain that he is going to be a multi-Pro-Bowl-caliber player.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, safety is usually a somewhat easy position to evaluate, and there are no red flags around Berry.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 29, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
At this point, I highly doubt anyone will have a worse record than the Browns.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Rams have Kyle Boller the rest of the year, no discernable NFL caliber WR and a more difficult schedule.
But they have Steven Jackson. He is far and away better than any offensive player that we have. He is going to win at least one game himself this year.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 29, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
In terms of a position where a player can impact the team in such a way that one game could be won by such player, RB is far more important than LT.
I agree with the assessment that Steven Jackson is more likely to win one game on his own over Joe Thomas.
That does not say anything to who I would choose for a team.
This was my thinking. I wouldn’t even think for a second about trading Joe Thomas for Steven Jackson.
But on a Sunday, SJ has a better shot going beserk and winning a game by himself. Because he can have games like this.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 29, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Thomas is better, but RBs can score points. Points win games. Its that simple.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 29, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh sorry, Roger. I didnt know you said the same thing.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 29, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
The Rams play in the weakest division. I wouldnt say they have a tougher schedule.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 29, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
speaking of the 1st round, who’s happy that they didn’t draft crabtree? he really irritates me. he hasn’t caught a pass in the nfl, and he’s demanding all of this money. yeah, you were good in college… so were many WRs! i think the browns dodged a bullet with him. i could see him being the next TO.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
Good point. I was a HUGE Crabtree dude. He is either an idiot or getting some really bad advice. Maybe both.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
i thought that they should’ve drafted him too, but i am so glad they didn’t. if he’s planning on reentering the draft, idk what he thinks is going to happen because no one wants that sort of person on their team. i’ll laugh if he ends up completely sucking.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
So was I. Of course, had we picked him 5th then he would have gotten the contract he wanted and wouldn’t be holding out.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
And if we picked them then our offense would be a heck of a lot better than it is now (which isn’t saying much, I know). He would give us another receiving threat so defenses couldn’t key on Braylon.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I was with absolutely zero knowledge of his attitude problems (or, at least their extent).
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
H would have probably requested Matt Stafford money if we took him at 5.
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 29, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
No, he wouldn’t have. Don’t be ridiculous. He thinks he was the best receiver in the draft (and most people agree) and he wants to be paid like it. You can disagree with his position if you’d like, but don’t say something silly like that. He — and his agent — aren’t that stupid.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Had we taken Crabtree at 5, he would have been the best receiver in the draft, and we probably would have paid him the money.
"But people are stupid, and their memories are short." - FredOx
by woodsmeister on Sep 30, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s a convenient excuse for him, but my inclination tells me that he would have held out anyway. Probably not to the same extent that he is now, but I say no chance he reports on time.
I’m not sure you can assume that. He’s not holding out just for the sake of holding out; he has an actual reason for his demands. And his agent is no dummy — I don’t think he’d hold out for more money just for the heck of it.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
And if Eric Mangini honestly thought that Derek Anderson was the man to lead this team back from 20 points down on the road at Baltimore, then our head coach is a freaking moron.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 28, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s one way to look at it. Do you want:
A). A chance at winning a few (more) games this year?
B). A long term team-building solution, even if it’s incredibly ugly getting there?
If you want Option A, root for DA. You know what you’ll get: Every week will be thrilling in a Russian roulette sort of way; we might beat any given team on a good day, or set a new league record for incompletions and INTs on a bad one. Given DA’s playing time and exposure, there’s no reason to think this variation will settle down, but sometimes it will be fun to watch, and you’ll get (sometimes futilely) to hope.
If you want Option B, root for BQ. Find out for certain if there’s anything behind that pretty face, so we can move on or not next year, instead of getting on the “Who’s gonna start at QB this quarter?” carousel for another year. BQ might stink up the league to an unprecedented degree, or make something of himself, but you’ll get a chance to grit your teeth, see what happens, and then act appropriately.
And as that’s about the best summary of my thoughts on this, I’m taking a vow NOT to post about our quarterback ‘situation’ until next Sunday - a fact I’m sure everyone will be grateful for!
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 28, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
even I was wrong about the browns.
I knew they were going 2-14 but they just might shock me and go 0-16
I pity the fool who thought they would win more than 3 games
by The Licensed Pessimist on Sep 28, 2009 2:47 PM EDT reply actions
with to different ways of thinking.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Sep 28, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously....
….as a non-Browns fan, but lifelong Ohioian, what I saw Sunday was not even worthy of being called professional football. Maybe they should just get rid of the offense altogether and put a rugby team out there. It can’t be any worse than watching BQ and DA imitate quarterbacks.
Hey, thanks for joining just to pile on. We appreciate it. Really.
"But people are stupid, and their memories are short." - FredOx
by woodsmeister on Sep 28, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd Love Nothing More...
….than to see a winner in this state at the professional level. Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s going to be happening anytime soon (and yes, that includes the fluke win by the unconvicted felons against the Steelers Sunday). I’ve watched the Browns since the early days of Brian Sipe, and have not seen an offensive effort as bad as what I witnessed this last Sunday. I understand they’re not going to win a lot of games, especially since the changeover in coaches and personnel, but this team has some talent. They should be playing better than the ’08 Lions.
i really wish i could find this article again, but i read something on how browns fans shouldn’t be surprised if they pick up pennington next year. the article said that the dolphins are going to want to start chad henne in 2010. however, idk how this would work since mangini is our coach… and well, the jets dropped pennington while mangini was coach.
i don’t know enough about pennington to say if i’d like this or not. he’s out for the season, so idk how he’d be able to spring back from an injury.
this information could be from a really unreliable source, though. so please, don’t start freaking out at me saying “omg what a stupid idea that would be!” i’m just throwing it out there.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
why can’t we see this from quinn again?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETtmxUOBQ8A
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
52 seconds in, that ball is 30 yards in the air, running backwards and off his back foot.
The concerns about his arm strength are laughable.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Sep 28, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why?
I’d say there are a few reasons:
1.) No Winslow- so many of those highlights were to #80, and I don’t think its a coincidence that Quinn’s best passes this year have been to Royal. He was spent 2 years learning a TE-driven offense with Chud and he goes to the TE a lot now, but the TEs aren’t as skilled and aren’t in as good of posiitons for big games. This leads to…
2.) He isn’t comfortable with Daboll’s system. I don’t know how different the new coaching staff’s offense is from Chud’s system or Weis’s system, but nobody seems like they are used to it, most of all Quinn. An optimistic view? As everyone continues to learn the principles- the ins and outs- of Daboll’s offense, the better it will be. A pessimistic view? This system doesn’t work and Daboll isn’t going anywhere, at least not this year.
3.)He’s worried about his job. Last year, Quinn didn’t have the pressure of opening the season as a starter and barely beating out someone during training camp. He just had to come in after DA was terrible and NOT throw bunches of inaccurate passes into arms of defenders and he looked great in comparison.
4.) While the highlight package was nice and to an up-beat song. He really was all that great in those few games last year. Low completion percentage, etc., etc. Although, let’s remember that he is still young for a QB and hasn’t even got to play 5 full games in the NFL.
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 28, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
yeah, you make a good point about winslow. that has hurt him, i just hadn’t thought about that lately until you mentioned it. he was one of his main targets last year.
i wouldn’t blame either of them (quinn or DA) for not being comfortable with the system, seeing as how it sucks for the most part lol. the problem is, though, is that we don’t know if quinn isn’t being coached to make those longer throws or if he doesn’t think he can. i don’t see why he wouldn’t think he could, though, since if you look at the highlight video from kwoog, he’s throwing bombs.
and #3 and #4… also agree. i know he wasn’t absolutely amazing in those games, but he was still making nice throws. they weren’t all behind the first down marker and to the RB.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
as much as Winslow was a clubhouse cancer, the dude could catch. one of the best catches that wasn’t was against the Cardinals in 2007 in the last play of the game. I still think we got jobbed on that one too as Winslow jumped straight up and got pushed out by the defenders.
also, the offensive line this year is a mess and as we’ve seen he’s just not comfortable standing in the pocket (when there is one, that is). not having ryan tucker is really hurting the team this season.
i think the straw that broke the camel’s back on the force-out rule was that winslow (non) catch. if that play wasn’t a force out, then there is no such thing. we got absolutely took on that one.
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 28, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Or if we beat the damn sucky Raiders.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 29, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
We also got screwed in that game by the stupid last second timeout rule. Phil Dawson had kicked the game winning field goal.
Yeah, then they blocked the kick. That was super lame.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 29, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
How about the Cribbsdroids?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 28, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Neither BQ or DA to blame
Obviously it is too soon to fire Mangini….although it is not too soon to start the process…
I say three strikes and your out….and you may say this ain’t baseball…but what i saw yesterday sure wasn’t Cleveland Browns Football.
Time for the front office to start coming up with a plausible explanation for how they blew this latest hiring decision. I mean the guy had a losing record before he took the head coaching job. What were the Browns thinking????
Allowing Mangini to continue to waste & destroy talent is criminal negligence on the part of the owners.
Time to give Bill Cowher a majority ownership in the team and beg him to take over the whole mess.
On the other hand I did get a whole weekends worth of dishes done during the second half.
Interesting stat from ohio.com:
Six of the first eight losses a year ago (pre-Dorsey) were by 10 points or fewer. Four of those were by four, three, four and four points.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
Die hard brown fan.
After three games, we browns fans have said. D.A or B.Q should start. Also, fire Mangini & Daboll regardless. I’m a die hard FAN like most of you; thats why we are the best fans in the N.F.L. Don’t let the media define who we are. Lets go BROWNS!!
When does the media try to define who or what Browns fans are?
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
So the QB should be one of the two guys on the team to be the QB?
by Brad D on Sep 29, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
this is a pretty good article, except i don’t agree with steps 1 or 2 (yet). i like what it says about playing the rookies more, especially momass and robiskie. they may not be completely “ready” but they have to be better than what we have now. as one fan put it:
“Make Cribbs cover kicks again and remove him from the offense. We need a legitimate WR opposite Edwards and Massaquoi is the only candidate we have who’s earned a shot. Mo will provide a bigger target with better hands and better routes. Cribbs had his shot and he’s proven that he’s not a threat as a #2 WR. Furrey is ok as the #3. Robiskie can come out in 4 WR sets. If you want to use Cribbs on occasion on offense, bring him in as the 3rd down back. He’s a boat anchor dragging the offense down otherwise.”
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
I have to ask myself if the ownership of the Browns cares about winning or if the team is just a tax break. How can this terrible fiasco continue to be tolerated by the ownership? I am amazed that the embarassment has not driven him to action.
What is he supposed to do? The season is three games old. Firing the head coach now would be grossly irresponsible. Honestly, what action do you want Lerner to take that will turn this team around right now?
Obviously Lerner cares about winning. Even if he wasn’t a football fan, a winning team makes his investment much more valuable. But every owner wants to win and only one team can win the title every year.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 28, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not good with analogies but I feel like Mangini and Daboll are playing Tecmo Super Bowl and the rest of the league is playing Madden.
BOOO
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 29, 2009 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Looks like Romeo is auditioning for “Dancing with the Stars.” Is that where he’s been all this time?
No, it looks like Romeo is doing a Chris Farley imitation. He’s been sneaking into people’s houses and replacing their copies of Farley’s best SNL skits with his own home productions.
I love those skits. The best was watching everyone else in the scene struggling to not laugh at him.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not going to sift through this whole thread. Did I miss anything important after BQiB finally announced that he is also TRSS?
Nope. That shining moment of multiple personality disorder was definitely the gold you were panning for!
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 29, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I meant it in the best possible way. Really.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 29, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It was truly the high water mark of the spiraling redundant insanity that was the comment stream on this post. It transcended the Stockholm syndrome driven madness of it all by subversively underlining it and elevating it to a whole new level of reality distortion and personal disconnection. It made people forget why they were posting here in the first place, and this week, that wasn’t all bad.
It involved Brady Quinn, a rapper, and the word broken. It was better than CATS. Even my mother liked it, and she’s dead. That was your brain on Browns circa 2009. Any questions?
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Oct 1, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of crap, but there is some decent analysis. Most of that is in green. Otherwise, a bunch of crap about Quinn and Anderson, Mangini and Lerner, etc.
by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 29, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Quick summary:
1. Some people are still defending Quinn
2. Some people are still defending Anderson
3. Some people think they both suck
4. Some people think Mangini/Daboll are awful
5. Some people think it is too early to judge anything
Quinn should start; DA should start; Quinn and DA are both bums; Mangini is a fat slob; Mangini is drunk with power; Mangini is a disloyal; Mangini is a rat; Lerner is a soccer loving commie; Lerner is incompetent; Lerner should sell the team to the fans; Lerner was involved in the assassination of JFK; The fans need to revolt; The fans are revolting; COWHER! COWHER! COWHER!; Toni Grossi makes shit up; Peter King was right; Peter King is still a douche; Crennel is a handsome fella; Cribbs should be the quarterback; What happened to the wildcat?; Tackling is not optional; etc…
In other words, no. You didn’t miss a thing.
by e.c. matter on Sep 29, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Are so.
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 29, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
After 3 games this season, let’s look at at 2007 QB draft:
Russell #1 39.8 rating
Quinn #22 62.9
Kolb #36 88.9
Beck #40 DNP 3rd string Baltimore
Stanton #43 DNP 3rd string Detroit
Edwards #92 86.2
It looks like the Quinnbots pressured Savage into wasting a 1st round pick on a QB, particularly Quinn. They could have picked up a difference make in the 1st round and Edwards would have been available in the 2nd round.
We probably would not have traded back into the first unless it was to grab Quinn which means we likely would have kept our pick at 36 overall (ironically right where Kolb was selected.) I actually would not want Kolb on the Browns right now, I think he would be worse than Quinn given the surrounding talent.
It’s probably quite likely that if we did not trade up for Quinn that we would have stayed put at 36 and selected….Eric Wright.
The real question is what did we pass up by losing the 2008 first rounder? Felix Jones was selected with that pick, and despite his injury issues looks like a really talented player.
Don’t really understand the comment about “Quinnbots pressuring Savage.”
Right. Nobody “pressured” Savage to pick Quinn — that make absolutely no sense.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the biased, unproductive, unsubstantiated and meaningless drivel. Come back often.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Sep 29, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What did the Browns gain by drafting Quinn in the 1st round?
The use of 1st roung draft picks is an important topic for the Browns.
Would you rather discuss Mangini’s personality?
B/c he was a first round, top-10 rated QB. Ozzie Newsome has missed on a first round QB, as has Fisher and countless other front offices. It’s the hardest position to fill, but sometimes you have to go for it.
Your childish use of “Quinbots” exposes your bias and inability to contribute anything to this blog. Save it for cleveland.com.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
by kwoog on Sep 29, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Plus, it’s not as if Savage took a poll of the fans before making that pick. The day a GM starts basing decisions on what fans think is the day we cross the line into completely hopeless.
“Plus, it’s not as if Savage took a poll of the fans before making that pick.”
yeah, just because a lot of fans wanted quinn doesn’t mean that savage was “pressured” into it. i’m sure there were plenty of fans who didn’t want quinn, anyways.
*browns.buckeyes.cavaliers.indians.packers.*
If the fans played any sort of role in Savage selecting Quinn, then he would have selected Quinn over Thomas at pick 3 like a lot of the media organizations were predicting. ESPN even said Quinn’s name as Goodell approached the podium.
by Roger Dorn on Sep 29, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, using a word such as “Quinnbots” is so juvenile and moronic. I hate it when people come up with “cute” nicknames to represent people who support someone they don’t like, such as the cleveland.com idiots calling people “Shappies”.
The people who support Quinn want him to get a chance to play because he hasn’t really had that yet, not because we have some infatuation with him.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither of those QBs have done skat in 3 years. Why even compair Quinn to those guys?
Quinn is the only guy on that list that I would want starting for us.
If you're at the table and you don't see a sucker..... you're it.
by Brownie's Year on Sep 29, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeff Garcia was just released by the Eagles. I’m assuming this means McNabb’s back after their bye or they saw enough from Kevin Kolb to keep him under center if Donovan isn’t.
He wanted to be cut from the Raiders b/c he knew he couldn’t be the starter there. He plays the same dink and dunk Daboll and Mangini apparently want, but he can also throw deep.
And he’s 37, so he’s not a long term answer, but gives you some respectability until the draft when we can select our next fourth QB-to-flop in a decade. Why the hell not?
Hell no to Garcia. The guy quit on the Browns. I will try and find the article but it pretty much stated that Garcia checked out.
Plus if we think that Quinn doesn’t throw deep, Garcia doesn’t have a cannon.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 29, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Quinn’s longest completion is 22 yards through the air. I’ve seen Garcia throw the rock 50 yards through the air for TDs as recently as last season.
And it’s not even about throwing deep. It’s about moving an offense. Quinn could not move the offense, period.
All the excuses, this and that, Brady Quinn could not convert 3rd downs and sustain a drive. End of story.
Jeff Garcia couldn’t beat out JaMarcus Russell. End of story.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 30, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Check your fax, he reported to camp injured and never took a snap for them. Even in pre-season. Look, I’m not saying Garcia’s the savior, but he’s an immediate upgrade over DA and Brady.
I don’t think Garcia is an upgrade. At all. Garcia would struggle just as bad as DA and Quinn, and he would bitch about it.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 30, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s funny – I had forgotten about Garcia’s propensity to whine through the media all the time. And I agree, it’s gonna take more than Jeff Garcia (or DA, or BQ) to succeed in this offense.
I never thought we would miss Kevin Shaffer at RT so much; hopefully Ryan Tucker will come back soon and improve the right side of the line.
Dont hold your breath on Ryan Tucker
by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 30, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The more things change the more they stay the same. There is no quaterback controversy because we don’t have a quarterback. Ten years of crap, four head coaches, many draft picks wasted on, millions of dollars wasted on marginal talent,
and here we are three games into the 2009 season and we’re already heading into the Colt McCoy-Tim Tebow derby. Am I ranting ….. damn right I am!!!..It’s pretty pathetic when I have to watch other games on TV to see real football being played. I’m just
an older and wiser frustrated lifelong Browns fan.
How Sad Is This?
Week 4 – WEEK FOUR!!!!! – and the season is undoubtedly done.
What the hell can we hope for when the Bengals – the BENGALS!!!! – come into Cleveland as 6 point favorites?
I will go out on a limb and predict that this is Mangini’s last Head Coaching gig in the NFL.
my opinion on this mess
The troubles here extend well beyond the quarterback position. This is just a spot thats easy to blame. The real trouble is and has always been the front office since we came back into the league.
What we really need are true football people filling these spots and have the ability to draft the right players that can bring this team up.
Until we get to the root of the problem this is all we shall ever have.
And Mangini………worse than Romeo
Very true. Unfortunately, the quarterback is the first guy to take the hit in situations like this. My hopes for DA are tempered because he’s still being coached by the same guys that were calling plays for Brady. Every quarterback needs a check down option in his progressions, but Brady looked like he had at least two per play and always went to them.
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