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I like Joe Pos, but this article isn’t even close to his usual standards. As I commented on his blog, the whole thing reeks of cherry-picking and hyperbole. I’m not wild about Mangini thus far, but Joe’s analysis completely fails to support the argument. Worst coaching hire in 25 years? That’s preposterous argument.

by drjeo on Sep 28, 2009 3:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It’s quite ridiculous of Posnanski to assert this based on a limited body of work. Maybe he will be right in three years, but not in three games. The premise of the article is weak from the start.

by gahnki on Sep 28, 2009 4:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

To be fair, that is the whole idea. It was a bad decision from the start. The results don’t matter, we might get lucky, we might not.

But he is saying that it was a terrible hire from the start. That to hire someone that was just fired for having a team collapse, having a losing record over 3 years and pissing off most fans and players along the way was really bad.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 28, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, he can say that but it’s still weak journalism. If the Browns start out 3-0 then he doesn’t write this article. If he had an issue with the hire then why not write this article 6 months ago? The impetus for the story was the bad start, but the bad start is essentially meaningless in the long run. No one will care if Mangini takes the Browns to the playoffs two years from now.

by gahnki on Sep 28, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True. It is interesting though. Someone in the comments mentioned how terrible a hire Belicheck was.

Also, I don’t think it is fair to consider his blog journalism. He is a very good journalist, but he is a great writer that uses all sorts of outlets. The blog is a very informal, personal thoughts and quick observations. Just that his quick thoughts and observations are often better said and more intriguing than anything a PD columnist could dream of. I would agree if this appeared in Sports Illustrated or The KC Star, but this was on his blog. And the real impetus for this story post was the creation of a new word about fan hyperbole and a funny slap-chop joke.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 28, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it counts as journalism now since the article was posted on SI.com.

Link

by Roger Dorn on Sep 29, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not sure if it is the worst in the last 25 years (I think that goes to the Raiders and Lane Kiffin), but it was a strange move to bring in another ex NE defensive coordinator to be the head coach. I don’t particularly understand Mangini. He acts like Belichick without Belichick’s resumer (and Tom Brady).

by Cols714 on Sep 29, 2009 7:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, Belichick also acted like Belichick before he had Belichick’s resume.

This definitely wasn’t the worst in the last 25 years. Heck it wasn’t even the worse in the last 3 years — the Redskins and Bucs both recently hired a head coach who hadn’t even been a coordinator before. Mangini was a defensive coordinator with NE and a head coach for three years with the Jets, where he had two winning seasons in those three years. That’s not a terrible resume. Now, he might not work out with the Browns but it’s way too early to make judgements like this.

Mangini has obviously been a big disappointment so far but I think the real problem has been Daboll. He hasn’t called plays before and I think that’s obvious. I’m not one to usually whine about play-calling but it’s been absolutely horrible these three games.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha
Everyone complains about their OC. It’s the easiest thing to do. You should hear Steelers fans. Even after the Super Bowl they were complaining about Bruce Arians.

I think the Browns need to get a young up and coming coordinator, like Mike Tomlin.

by Cols714 on Sep 29, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand that. But these three games were some of the worst play-calling and formations that I’ve ever seen. There was no creativity whatsoever.

The Browns have tried a coordinator. They’ve tried a college coach. They’ve tried a recycled head coach. Nothing has worked.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 29, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well lets try the cycle again. We are bound to get a good one some time. The coach I want is Stanford’s Harbaugh.

by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 29, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldnt mind hiring recycled coaches as coordinators though. That usually ends up being a good move.

I wish we would make Romeo the D-line coach; Were already paying him might as well make him do something!

by TheRealSlimShady on Sep 29, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahhh, another Cleveland team in the dumper so the National media has a chub and is half falling all over themselves in a hurry to mock us. I know we suck right now and part of a sports reporters job is to report on the gargabe teams and what made them garbage but I just don’t understand why most articles written about a bad NE sports team or loss have a smug, glib almost celebratory tone to them. As if the writer is getting off on us suffering.

Come on, how can you write this after three games even with as bad as we look. I have faith that mangini will at least end up doing better than Richie Kotite, Scott Linahan (sp?) or any of the Raiders coaches since Chuckie left for Tampa.

While the first three games are worse than I anticipated I fully expected us to be garbage for the first half of the season possibly 1-7 or 2-6 and show vast improvement in the second half especially in the last month where we have three (hopefully) winnable games to end the year. As hard as it is I’m waiting until then to call Mangini a bum. I’ve been wrong before so I’ll reserve judgement. After Butch Davis finished his first season I wanted him to get a 10 year extension!

by mgtbfb on Sep 30, 2009 9:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Bad NE Ohio sports team…. sorry

by mgtbfb on Sep 30, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, I agree with this. I am actually astonished at how much joy people are taking in Mangini struggling off the bat. Where are the articles mocking new Rams coach, Spagnuolo or Jim Zorn for failing with a more talented team than the Browns?

Posnanski in particular should try and refrain from piling on his “hometown team.” Truth be told, he doesn’t give a crap about the Browns, he roots for the Royals and Chiefs. Where is the article mocking Pioli and Haley for the putrid Chiefs team?

by Roger Dorn on Sep 30, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know if it’s fair to say he doesn’t give a crap about the Browns. I read every article on his blog and he still has a fondness for Cleveland teams. You can see that in his SI article about the Cavs last season.

And he has no problems mocking KC teams. He has countless posts on his blog mocking the Royals and breaking down how inept they are. I would bet that at least 25% of his posts the past month or two have been about how terrible the Royals are. He doesn’t write about the Chiefs very much because he doesn’t write about football in general very much, but he has mentioned their ineptitude frequently.

I wouldn’t say he’s “piling on”; he’s just posting his opinion on his blog. He shouldn’t refrain from talking bad about the Browns just because they’re his hometown team.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He’s not really from the “national media” — he’s a KC writer who grew up in Cleveland and has followed Cleveland sports teams his whole life. He just doesn’t like what he’s seeing from the Browns so he’s writing about it. He’s certainly not celebrating the suffering of Browns fans.

Posnanski is actually one of the best sportswriters in the country (if not the best). He’s won numerous national awards and is well-respected by intelligent sports fans everywhere. He writes about baseball in particular better than any sportswriter in the country.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My comment about the National media was more a general one and don’t really directed at Posnanski. Just check out any of the big sports sites or turn on ESPN to see what I mean. Listening to the media talk about Mangini you would think he’s Wayne Fonts only stupider and we’ve only played three games.

I just think that to write an article calling Mangini the worst coach in the last 25 years is a bit premature and wouldn’t be written about any other city than Cleveland. The media celebrates when Ohio State loses. They are openly campaigning for LeBron to leave for NYC, openly rooted for Orlando, etc… It’s almost bizarre. Why the hate? What reason do people have to hate Ohio? It’s not like they should be jealous or something. The weather sucks most of the year and our economy is in the pooper.

by mgtbfb on Sep 30, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, come on now. You can’t honestly think that the media is conspiring against the state of Ohio. That’s simply ridiculous.

Of course LeBron’s upcoming free agency is a big story. He’s probably the biggest free agent in the history of the NBA. And NY is the media capital of the world so there is talk about him going there. It has nothing to do with Cleveland — they’d be saying the same thing if he played in Detroit or Denver or Atlanta or Minneapolis or most other cities. And who was “openly rooting for Orlando”? I think you’re being paranoid.

It just bothers me when I hear fans complain that everyone in the world hates their team or their city. The media always talks bad about us, the refs always make calls against us, everyone wants us to lose, etc. That type of whining gets old really fast.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 30, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yep. Fans do this way too often. Personally I didn’t think it was one of Joe’s better efforts. But I think he’s right that Mangini was a terrible choice, if maybe not the worst choice ever.

by Cols714 on Sep 30, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brad, I usually agree with you, but I can’t go along with this one. Joe Pos writes for Sports Illustrated now, which certainly makes him a “national media” figure in my mind at least. I really like his writing, and he is both amusing and clever. However, this article simply doesn’t hold water. It was cheap and easy writing, with little real evidence offered to support what is a highly debatable premise, at best. It’s clear that Joe really dislikes Mangini, and that’s fine with me. But that post is beneath the standard I would expect from Joe. It’s simply lousy writing, and I would say the same thing if he had written it about any of the other coaches in first-year positions across the NFL. Very disappointing effort from Joe. Honestly, I think he’s spending so much time promoting his new book that I haven’t seen anything worthwhile from him for at least a couple of weeks.

by drjeo on Sep 30, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree completely and also why I cited it as “piling on.”

by Roger Dorn on Sep 30, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You’re right; I didn’t like this article either. I was just letting the commentor know about Posnanski in general and that his stuff is usually well above the stuff you get from ESPN and such so I didn’t think it was right to lump him in with them. He’s not a guy who’s going to try to mock the Browns, as the comment implied. He’s not getting “off on us suffering.” I wasn’t implying that I liked or agreed with the article.

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 1, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More Posnanski on Mangini. He goes in to more detail about the mural that Mangini had taken down at the team facility in Berea. Someone made a comment in his last post that he had his facts wrong about Mangini taking down the mural — that he planned to move it to the front of the facility for the fans to see, which doesn’t really make any sense since fans don’t really go to the Browns headquarters — so he went in to more detail about what happened. I’m glad that I read this because I hadn’t heard much other than the initial report. And it makes Mangini look like even more of as a-hole.

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 1, 2009 8:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Give him a shot

Honestly, he can not turn the team around that quickly. its not going to be magic it takes time. how many more coaches do you want to fire? Anyone who just steps in to a team with a loosing streak for 10 years is not gonna do great at first. Im a huge browns guy and really want my team to win. we all know mangini is a great coach just give him some time.

by Charles101 on Oct 2, 2009 8:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good Point

I’ve been piling on the guy as well, but this post made me stop and realize that he didn’t exactly inherit the 1994 Cowboys.

Even before he was hired, I would never have picked this Browns team to make the playoffs, so I guess I’ll just have to take a deep breath and watch how the season plays out.

Admittedly, holding my breath for the next 13 weeks will be hard…

by Pruitt on Oct 6, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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