Bears Beat Browns 26-23 in Backup Bonanza
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 4, 2009 10:27 AM EDT
in General News
42 comments
| CLEVELAND BROWNS (2-2) | GAME #4 | CHICAGO BEARS (3-1) | |||
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VS. |  |
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| 23 | 26 |
Eric Mangini didn't give any more hints out during the Bears/Browns contest about who the team's starting quarterback would be. That does show some progress though, because it means (hopefully) that Mangini has made a decision and is just playing the "competitive advantage" game.
With that said, the quarterback play belonged to Brett Ratliff and Richard Bartel Thursday night. Truth be told, by the end of the game, I was glad that neither Anderson or Quinn played. It doesn't make sense to see what they can do against second stringers, and for the first time this preseason, I got to see more of our youth in action.
Let's get to the recap of the game, which will be a little shorter than it's been for the first three preseason games...
PRESEASON GAME 4 - BROWNS VS. BEARS (GENERAL THOUGHTS)
- Blame it All on...Norwood: The difference between the Browns finishing the preseason 3-1 versus 2-2 might have been WR Jordan Norwood. With the Browns down six and driving late in the game, he was targeted for I believe the first two times this preseason. On the first play, he couldn't bring in a slant pass with tight coverage on him. The second play hurt though, because he was open on a crossing pattern over the middle...and I mean wide open, with a blocker in front of him. Norwood dropped it for the second play in a row. That's a tough break for a player who had a lot of buzz as an UDFA, but really never had a significant impact at any point in camp.
- Mr. Jennings Has Some Power: I thought we'd see RB Noah Herron play, but instead we got to see the young Chris Jennings in action. Minus his dumb penalty (tossing the football at another player), he had a very impressive "practice squad audition". Considering he already had former ties to Mangini, I'd say there is a good chance we stash him on the practice squad now.
Jennings' average was only 3.5 yards per touch on 17 carries, but that is deceiving. I recall at least two plays in which the Browns ran the ball with about a nine-man defensive front, forcing Jennings into a 5-yard loss. What was more important is that Jennings ran with quickness and power, bowling over a few defenders and showing a knack for getting out of bounds in two-minute situations when it didn't look like he'd get there. - Patten Makes His Case: This is a tricky one on David Patten. From a gameplay perspective, he has good hands and would probably have more trust from Mangini over a guy like Brian Robiskie in clutch situations. We're not going to keep Patten over Robiskie, but could we keep him as another receiver still? If we didn't plan on it, then why wouldn't we have given him the respect of cutting him early (alas Rod Hood)?
- Bartel > Ratliff: If I had zero knowledge of where both of these quarterbacks came from and how we acquired them, based on their preseason performances, I would like Richard Bartel a whole lot more than Brett Ratliff. I like Bartel's arm strength and his ability to get some touch on the ball too. The negative that stood out is his inability to dump the ball off when the pocket starts to collapse around him. Ratliff will probably make the team due to his ties to Mangini, but I want Bartel on the practice squad.
- Hall Didn't Belong There: With the second-string defense in, you could tell which player(s) didn't belong in there (i.e. they were too good). One of those players would be LB Alex Hall, who I hope ends up seeing 50/50 playing time with David Bowens this year.
- Francies Still Good: It was an up-and-down game for Coye Francies, as he seemed to suffer a few negative plays after giving up a touchdown pass to former Browns receiver Brandon Rideau. What I liked throughout the entire game though is that he continued to have tight coverage and played very physical -- did you see how he almost decapitated that one running back on the screen pass? He also blew up a wide receiver screen earlier in the game. The positives far outweigh the negatives.
- Special Teams Standouts: Special teams coach Brad Seely will have his pick on special teams players. We have several that have been standing out, particularly LB Blake Costanzo, LB Kaluka Maiava, and DB Mike Adams. DB Gerard Lawson is adding his name to the mix again, having his best return game outing of the preseason and also being a gunner on special teams.
- Quick DL: Was it just me, or did DL Brian Schaefering look like he shot out of a cannon on both of his sacks against the Bears?
- Add to the Suspense: To add to the suspense of the quarterback/center situation, Mangini ended up starting both Hank Fraley and Alex Mack. Mangini doesn't want anyone to know his plans, does he?
- Real-Game Situation: If we're down by six, in field goal range, with three timeouts and a little over two minutes to play, do we kick the field goal like Mangini chose to do, or do we go for the first down there?
- Brownies: We finally got another look at LB Marcus Benard. He was fine, but I'm not convinced that he'll be on the practice squad. The Browns were 2-of-2 on fourth down. The second/third-string offensive line got beat a lot but offered good protection a lot. K Phil Dawson was 3-of-3 on field goals, including a perfect 51-yarder. My comments about Norwood costing us the game were a little sarcastic; I don't literally blame him with a passion or anything.
The rosters must be trimmed to 53 players by Saturday I believe. Hopefully the Browns don't make their cuts before then, because I am going to put the official "cut" projection thread up later tonight.
Here is the roll call of who participated in the game thread, with theW0LF having the most to say...
Roll Call: vincefitz, talonk, drunkrooster, BradyQuinnisBeast, Joey_D, nickjs21, Roger Dorn, Buckeye Brad, Cols714, kwoog, fwembt, danvail, Fundamentals, theW0LF, rufio, JustBob, Riverboat Sam, BLAZER_FAN_199, Bernie19Kosar, BrownDawg1409, rockybrown, Bumblyjack, NM Dawg, SpecialBrownie, Brownie's Year, Juannieboy, Dawg Nuts
Total Users: 27
Total Posts: 234
Total Threads: 1
| Name | # of Posts |
|---|---|
| theW0LF | 64 |
| Buckeye Brad | 32 |
| kwoog | 26 |
| JustBob | 19 |
| Bumblyjack | 18 |
| BradyQuinnisBeast | 16 |
| Cols714 | 9 |
| BrownDawg1409 | 8 |
| BLAZER_FAN_199 | 6 |
| drunkrooster | 6 |
| Riverboat Sam | 3 |
| nickjs21 | 3 |
| rockybrown | 3 |
| rufio | 3 |
| Bernie19Kosar | 2 |
| fwembt | 2 |
| NM Dawg | 2 |
| Fundamentals | 2 |
| talonk | 2 |
| Brownie's Year | 1 |
| Dawg Nuts | 1 |
| Juannieboy | 1 |
| SpecialBrownie | 1 |
| vincefitz | 1 |
| Joey_D | 1 |
| Roger Dorn | 1 |
| danvail | 1 |
0 recs |
42 comments
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Sorry if I over did it on the thread posts Chris. I was just in the groove.
http://dawgscooper.blogspot.com/
Dawg Scooper: An Unofficial Cleveland Browns News Source
No way, man. More comments are always better.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 4, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Hah, okay we should stop before this gets out of hand. I don’t want to look back and say, “Man, that escalated quickly.”
Agreed. I don’t want face the wrath of Kwoog due to our ignorance.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
You do a very good job of pointing out ignorance. We were being pretty ignorant.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Anchorman Quote?
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 6, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Needless to say
I think its safe to assume that this team has looked more impressive than any other in awhile. While nothing is guaranteed, there’s a lot of promise with this squad. Over or under 7 wins?
"It’s tough," Martinez said. "This is my house. This is my home."
We'll miss you, Vic
Really? We’re much better right now than we were at the end of last year. Four wins would be a big disappointment to me. I expect between 6 and 8.
I don’t see it. I don’t see a big improvement in talent and for all of the talk of discipline, the penalties have still been numerous this preseason. I keep reading people saying the improvement is obvious… where?
QB- Same
RB- Probably same. I’ll admit, I’m intrigued by Davis, but rookie 6th round RBs aren’t what seasons are built on.
TE- Worse.
WR- Same. Talent is better, but rookie WRs have a notoriously steep learning curve.
OL- Same. Talent is probably better, but cohesiveness is gone as nobody knows what their role will be.
DL- Better, definitively. I like Mosley and Coleman, Rubin looks improved.
LB- Better, although not as much as I’ve read. Barton is a nice player, Bowens is okay. If Hall develops in a big way, it could be fun.
DB- Same. Maybe a little more depth, although I do think I like Jones more than Elam right now.
I can see the defense improving, perhaps significantly. An experienced coordinator, a new style of play and more talent. The offense though? I don’t see it. Roughly the same talent, a rookie coordinator who has not really made a mark, and way too much uncertainty at basically every offensive position that isn’t LT.
I don’t know how you can’t expect an improvement at QB. For one, we won’t be playing Ken Dorsey or Gradkowski, and I’d be willing to bet that both Quinn and DA don’t go down with season-ending injuries this year.
Second, you’d have to assume that DA played about as bad as he could have last year, and Quinn is better than the DA we saw last year.
WR should also be a big improvement. At worst, we have Furrey, who is much much better than Steptoe as our #2. Massaquoi looked good throughout the preseason, and Robo had flashes. Either one could produce more than Steptoe last year, learning curve and all. If you don’t think Cribbs is looking better at WR than he ever has, and that he has more of a chance to carve out a bigger role on offense this year I don’t know what you were watching. In the best-case scenario, Edwards returns to top-5 in the NFL form, both rookies step up, and Furrey is a smaller, faster Joe Jurevicious, with Patten a legit #5 who will draw easy matchups if we go 5-wide. It would be hard not to improve at WR vs. last year—we were that bad.
The OL will be better. For one, Thomas had a bad year last year (don’t get me wrong, a Joe Thomas “bad year” is still pretty good) and he and Steinbach (who is very good) should be as good as ever on the left side. Hadnot should be back early in the year, and 2/3 of him, St. Clair and Womack should have a better year than the combination of him and Schaffer last year. Schaffer had an awful year. In the worst case scenario, we should have 4 starters back from last year with a minor upgrade at RT. If the light goes on for Mack, he would provide a major upgrade over Fraley.
DL should be better, healthy Robaire, Mosley and Coleman added, healthy C. Williams. Rubin should be better in year 2.
LB should be better but not as good as we will need to have a dominant D. Andra Davis was terrible last year. Barton is solid. Bowens is only ok, but he is replacing McGinest who was only effective on runs directly at him. Hall and Wimbley should be better. If Veikune can contribute, that’s just a further bonus.
DB should be better. Jones was hurt last year and was still suffering from his injuries even when he was on the field last year. Francies looks pretty promising. If everyone stays healthy, Elam would be a major upgrade over either of the backups that played in place of Jones last year. Everyone on the roster at CB is better than Terry Cousin.
Our defensive scheme should be much, much better. Mel Tucker was super-vanilla, even when it was clear we’d need more to win he did a good job in about 4/16 games last year. Offensively, who knows. Chud seemed to lose his brilliance somewhere between 07 and 08, and Daboll is a big question mark.
Still, basing our “improvement” (in wins) solely on our team neglects one very important thing: the teams we play against. Our schedule looks a LOT easier vs. last year. Of course this is the NFL and anything could happen, but our schedule was pretty rough last year and I’d be willing to bet that it gets easier this year.
Anything less than 6 wins should be a major disappointment.
by rufio on Sep 4, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I expect a big improvement in QB. As you said, no Dorsey or Gradkowski for four games, and if Quinn plays the entire season and plays like he did last year when he was healthy then that will be a big improvement over what DA did last year. Add that to the easier schedule and improved coaching staff (notably on the defensive side) and I think that’s a definite improvement.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 4, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, rufio stole everything I would say. There is no way you look at this team and don’t see major upgrade from last year. Plus, an easier schedule- I’d say 5 wins is the floor. 9 is the ceiling.
add one to both your floor and ceiling
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 6, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
You have some decent points, but allow me to counter:
QB- I’ll admit there will be improvements over Dorsey and Gradkowski. However, do you see a huge improvement over the DA/Quinn of before the injuries? DA may have bottomed out, but I don’t think we’ll see the same QB as 07 (or anything near it). Quinn we don’t know anything about in playing. You are also counting on development coming in a system that is new to both of them. By the end of the year, perhaps we’ll see a big improvement. Early on? No way.
WR- I like Furrey, but I’m not counting on him for big things for a complete season. I made mention that the talent is upgraded. However, rookie WRs are not players that you typically count on. And while you may want to look at the 5-wide set, do you really see this team running a lot of 5-wide in anything short of down 6 with 50 seconds on the clock and 60 yards to go? There are a LOT of questions here. I’ll give you pure talent and long-term potential, but for this year, I’m not sure how much better they truly will be.
OL- I’m going to disagree with you here. Joe Thomas is a fine player (Although, I do really think that he is overrated by Browns fans. I’d say he is top-10 LTs in the NFL, but I don’t think I’d go top-5). But whatever the starting alignment might be, has not played together at all. One of the things that is frequently said about OL is that the talent isn’t as important how they play together. We don’t even know who is playing what where. I’m certain Joe Thomas will be the LT. I think Steinbach will stay at LG, even though they experimented elsewhere early in camp. The other three spots are up in the air and have had multiple combinations. Also, while we’re all expecting (I think) Mack to start at center, that would mean you would have a rookie making the line calls and protection adjustments. Does that inspire confidence in you? I think Mack will be a fine player, but again you are looking at an adjustment period. And that adjustment period coming against some mighty fine players at DT (Hampton, P. Williams, Gregg, Harris, J. Williams, Henderson). I have a LOT of questions about the OL.
I just think that Browns fans are overstating the teams improvement, even with the schedule. I agree that the schedule is easier, but I don’t think the Browns are that good. I have them winning one of the games against Cincy and having opportunities to win against Denver, Detroit, Oakland, and KC. I think the NFC North might be the best division in football this year, and its the year the Browns drew them. I can see them winning six if everything goes right. Realistically, 3-4 is my expectation.
by Fundamentals on Sep 5, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I also don’t think we will see “good DA” from 07 if he plays this year. I think DA will average out to between 07 and 08, which means if he plays he should be better than 08. I think every time we have seen Quinn healthy (a very, very limited amount of times) he has led the offense to points—and done so easily. If he beats out DA (who I am counting on to be at least slightly better than last year) our quarterbacking will have to improve. I don’t think we will see Peyton Manning, but I think it will be at least slightly better than 08. This scheme is also similar to what Quinn ran at ND (based on what I’ve heard via the media and seen in 4 preseason games that didn’t mean much) so it shouldn’t be completely alien to him if he wins the job. Both guys have looked solid so far.
I don’t know how else to say this: we can’t get worse at WR. Braylon can’t have much worse of a season, and anyone we put out there will be better (more talened) and more productive than Steptoe. I am not saying we are going to be above-average necessarily, we were just so bad last year that it can’t get worse.
The starting line could be Thomas, Steinbach, Fraley, Hadnot and X. That is exactly the same as a year ago not counting Schaffer. Mangini will play the 5 best guys who play the best together. If the continuity really matters there, those 4 plus one new guy will be starting. If he feels like the guys have meshed enough that more talented guys can play (Mack) that’s just better for us.
Mangini switches the linemen throughout camp to build what he calls “position versatility”. Now they should all have some familiarity in the event of an injury, and if Mack is asked to fill in at RG, he will already have experience doing so. The shuffling is less a result of not knowing where guys will play if everything goes as planned, but more as a result of not knowing where guys could play if someone goes down.
My opinion on Thomas is that he was more of the type of player he should be his 1st year. I think last year he sort of relaxed a little, and stopped doing all the little things he needs to do to be dominant. His pad level got high, his leverage wasn’t as good, and he still was a top-10 LT. If he plays like he can play, he’s the best in the world. I think the top-10 range (last year) is the worst-case-scenario, which means he shouldn’t get worse.
Mack is a very intelligent player. Mangold did pretty well pretty early for Mangini, Mack can do well too. If anything, I am worried about his technique and him balancing his strengths (power, aggression, nastiness) with his weaknesses (playing under control, being a technician). The QB should also play a large role in the protections. If Mack can’t adjust, we have Fraley, and I think it is fair to expect the same (low) level of production from Fraley, so I don’t really know how you think we will get worse there. Again, not saying we will be especially good, but I really don’t see how we get worse and think we have a very good shot to be better.
Not having Tucker hurts, but he only played one game last year.
St Clair should be a major upgrade over Schaffer, as long as he can remember the snap count and doesn’t have as many dumb penalties as he did in the preseason.
I actually think Browns fans are overly pessimistic (and I can’t blame them based on Cleveland’s sports history). We won 4 games last year and almost everything went about as bad as it could go. If either Quinn OR DA stays healthy, we would have won 5-6 games last year, easily. I’ve already talked about how awful things were last year, and where we have reasonable room for improvement, so how is 7-9 or 8-8 overstating our improvement?
1 from each of our division opponents, or any combination to go 3-3 in the division.
KC
DEN
DET
OAK
BUF
JAX
That’s 9 very winnable games. Assuming we don’t always take care of business and don’t beat anyone we aren’t supposed to, and there is room for a realistic 7 win prediction.
If you only look at DET, OAK, KC and two division games, that’s a very probable scenario in which we outplay your expectation. Denver shouldn’t be too much better than those teams, either.
You think 3-3 is reasonable in the division? I cannot see this team beating either Baltimore or Pittsburgh. I know it is hard to see sweeps again, but BAL and PIT are very good teams with what look like good coaching staffs. Those teams always appear focused and I have trouble seeing them with letdowns against the Browns. Also, I have no confidence in a sweep of the Bengals. The Bengals are like few other teams to me, in that I can honestly see them being very, very good. Or I could see them winning two games and having the first pick. I have them splitting with the Bengals, because I have no clue what Bengals team it will face. I simply don’t see 3-3 in division as “reasonable” with this team and with the talent of the other teams.
I’m looking at wins vs. CIN, OAK, KC, and JAX. I have them losing to Denver, for no other reason than they seem to have let-down games and that screams that to me as I look at the schedule. I have them losing to Detroit because I think the Lions are going to be vastly improved under Schwartz (who was my ideal coaching candidate in the offseason). By vastly improved, I mean winning 4-6 games, but in that division, that is a huge leap. I think Buffalo is a clear step better than the Browns. I think KC and JAX are at the same level. So, I have them splitting those games.
I hope I’m laughably wrong. I hope I am so wrong that I’m ridiculed on this forum for the rest of my/its existence. I just don’t see the same talent on this team that you do.
We swept the Ravens in 2007, and last year had half time leads in both games, including a 17 point advantage in the second game. It’s actually unreasonable to assume two losses to the Ravens.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
Check that, we were tied in the second game last year… but we still had a 14 point lead in the 4th.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
We lost 10-6 to pit last year and were up 17 on the Ravens. Winning either of those games is well within “reasonable”.
I don’t disagree that the Bengals could be good this year, particularly if Chris Henry really is not an idiot anymore, and if their USC LBs can actually play. I still think their secondary is overrated, and both their lines are really really weak.
I still don’t know how you can “realistically” expect us to lose to the Lions, who are starting a rookie QB behind virtually no line, and didn’t add all that much to a team that won zero games last year. If a coaching change can do that much for a team, then how come you don’t give us a boost, too? Could it get worse than Romeo’s clock management last year? Do you think we will see less of our young talent? Do you think we will rush 3 a higher % of the time or run a more vanilla defense?
Buffalo is not a clear step better than Cleveland. We beat them last year with BQ unable to throw with any zip (broken finger), and while allowing a gajizillion yards to Marshawn. Do you really think TO makes them that much better? Do you think Maybin will be able to beat Joe Thomas off the edge? I just don’t see it. Even if they are better, it isn’t a “clear step”.
I presented a very clear and realistic scenario in which we in 7 games. I don’t see your prediction of 4 wins as particularly unreasonable, but I just think we will do better. This is the NFL, and anything can happen, but I don’t see how you can think 3-3 in the division and around 7 wins is unreasonable.
Sporting News has the Browns going 3-13, I question that. I will say 7-9 or 8-8.
Shame, I like Norwood, first chance to get in a game and drops balls. Hell that is more balls he dropped at Penn Sate in 4 years. Oh well I am sure he will surface somewhere, just not in Cleveland.
Can we name a starting QB please.
Not so sure about Norwood. If he had a chance to be an NFL receiver then I think he would have shown something here. Who knows, maybe he will catch on somewhere and have a nice career, but I think that just shows the huge difference between college football and the NFL. Many, many players have looked great in college — even those at big-time programs like Penn State — and done nothing in the NFL. It’s just a whole other level.
Ryan Leaf…The Chargers should have gotten a free – bee pick for him.
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 4, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, 7-9, or 8-8 is seems realistic…although I keep forgetting they didn’t score an offensive TD in their last 6 games last year (hence, the 3-13 predicitons)
by Riverboat Sam on Sep 4, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I called it!
Like I stated last week, the Browns should let the nonstarters get more time! This only makes sense to see what we got in back-ups. What stands out to me most is our lack of depth at certain positions. On a good note our Special teams is solid! They bring some much needed excitement back to the games! Go Browns!
The year
Well, I’m optimistic again for this year. I think the Browns have some talent and could do very well if they stay healthy. I predict thay go 7-9 this year,and will ber very competitive! I like Quinn as the starter…Lewis will be retained, but this will be his final year.
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