Mangini's Depth Chart for Browns is Unveiled...Sort Of
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 7, 2009 10:30 PM EDT
in General News
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PrintEvery team has to release a depth chart during the regular season. With the Browns 53-man roster being official, who did Mangini list on the first string at positions of interest?
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I bet the people at the Plain Dealer and the rest of the local media threw a fit after seeing this depth chart. Obviously, the thing that stands out is that none of the quarterbacks are listed on the depth chart -- not even third-stringer Brett Ratliff. The Plain Dealer does point out that on their version of the depth chart, Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson are both listed on the first string with a slash (/) separating them.
Other areas of interest:
- Jerome Harrison is listed ahead of James Davis as the backup to Jamal Lewis.
- David Bowens is still ahead of Alex Hall.
- Hank Fraley is ahead of Alex Mack. I expect Mack to actually start, but maybe Mangini doesn't want his first game to be against the dominating Williams duo (who are pending suspension).
- Joshua Cribbs is listed as the starting receiver opposite Braylon Edwards.
- Robaire Smith and Kenyon Coleman are ahead of last year's starter, Corey Williams.
Feel free to discuss the depth chart here!
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This is the one area that I disagree with Mangini or actually I don’t understand why he has not named a starter at QB. Yeah, I understand the whole philosophy of the Vikings don’t know how to prepare for the Browns, I get that. However I am just thinking of DA or Quinn. What in the hell is going on in there minds.
This is almost to over the top with " I am the Mangenius" I have liked what he has done so far, releasing Hood I don’t get, but other than that, the QB deal is really getting old.
I dont like Bowens and Fraley starting
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 7, 2009 11:29 PM EDT reply actions
I’m disappointed that Mack isn’t startig, but that will change at some point this season I think.
On the QB situation, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the team knows and Mangini just won’t tell the media.
by Legoman0721 on Sep 8, 2009 12:00 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I live in MN. It appears that the Willams Wall will not be suspended before week 1 if at all. good luck running against that…
AP’s gonna tear your defense a new one.
Yeah, Peterson may run for 120 or 130. But when your "star" QB closes his eyes when he throws…well…. you’ve seen what’s happened the last couple years. T-Jack is a better QB than Favre right now. You guys are screwed.
And not to speak for Chris, but what are you doing on our ‘Pokorny Dawgs’ site? You don’t come here and talk trash about our heart and soul. Shouldn’t you be on your SB Nation’s ‘Purple Nurple Norsemans’ site? Bragging about how good your offence is with a washed up QB?
Please leave and don’t come back.
23-17 Browns
by Brownie's Year on Sep 8, 2009 5:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Dear god. I hope Favre doesn’t blow out Wright’s knees!
by SpecialBrownie on Sep 8, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m with you except for the silly Favre bashing. Tavaris Jackson is not better than Favre now, and I’m not convinced he will be better than Favre in 5 years- like when Favre is 43.
Yeah, but that doesn’t mean Favre is especially good.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Favre will light it up at some point this year, but saying he is better than Jackson isn’t saying a whole lot.
In 5 years he will be 45
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 8, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Frankly, he’s right about Peterson. I haven’t seen anything to indicate that our run defense is at all improved over last year. Rufio pointed out in another thread that Rogers wasn’t in any of the preseason games, but I’m not sure if he will make enough of a difference. I think it really comes down to the LBs.
I am, however, looking forward to our DBs snapping up some of Favre’s passes. One thing I’ve noticed about him over the years is if he gets pissed off/frustrated early in the contest his whole game goes to poop. So here’s hoping for poop.
Oh I don’t doubt that Peterson will get his. Its just that he’d get a lot more without Rogers in there.
AD does fumble the ball more than a back of his caliber should, too. If our defense capitalizes on a lapse in concentration by either him or Favre and our O scores, we could be in the ballgame.
I was really hoping the Williamses would be suspended, but it looks like they will play.
I think the run D is upgraded from last year. Coleman and a healthy Robaire Smith are better than what we had last year. Rubin looks much improved. Rogers is still a beast. Barton has to be a giant upgrade in tackling from Andra Davis and Bowens should be better than McGinist (though I’m still hoping to see more Alex Hall than Bowens).
Not saying we are going to shut Peterson down, but I don’t think we’ll embarrass ourselves in slowing him down.
apparently the organization expects big things from rubin, according to someone who would know
I reserve the right to complain about Gimenez at 1B and Carroll in the OF, no matter the facts. - FredOx
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 9, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Our run defense wasn’t even that bad last year was it? I thought we were middle of the pack.
Rogers is an animal, we all agree on that. Kenyon Coleman was specifically acquired for his ability to stop the run. Two seasons ago he led all DT’s in tackles. He is less of a household name because he is not a pass rusher, he doesn’t pile up sacks. He is also good enough to move Corey Williams to a backup-role. Robaire Smith was also hurt last year, and hopefully will be healthy for the entire season. I think we are clearly better equipped to stop the run and that’s before I even mention getting rid of Andra Davis.
Ditto. I think the run D is better coached too. AP is a great running back but I think the Browns strategy will be to stop the run at all costs and make them throw. That sounds pretty weird with our secondary being fairly weak and us up against Brett Favre, but I think we need them to make some mistakes and letting them pound the ball up the field play after play is just going to make it a long day for the Browns. Favre is just the guy to do it too… it is make or break with him. I have a lot of respect for his skills but if he has a bad day, the Browns might pull it off.
Brownsyup
Our run defense wasn’t even that bad last year was it? I thought we were middle of the pack.
we gave up 151.9 rushing yards per game for fifth worst. I really don’t see how that’s gonna change this season
by The Licensed Pessimist on Sep 9, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I for one welcome you, and don’t mind a little trash talking. Comment all you want, as long as it’s reasonable and informed.
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
Yes, I agree, there really wasn’t a lot wrong with that one comment. Now, if he posted often and every time he posted he said the Browns blow, that’d be a different story.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 8, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it is silly not to name the starter. Is the difference in preparing for Quinn and Anderson really all that different? This isn’t Pryor and Beockman.
As for Mack I would like to see him go against the Williams wall. He has been facing Shaun so its not like he is totally unprepared.
I think Cribbs is going to do some things. Some real good things.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 8, 2009 2:39 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Well, not naming the starter is one of two things for the Vikings
a. Value neutral
b. Net positive for the Browns
Since it can’t hurt us, why not try and see if it helps?
I don’t see how these are the only two choices. Didn’t Mangini say that he hasn’t told Quinn or Anderson yet? Even if he told them and not the rest of the team, if those two guys are splitting the practice reps in order to keep the Vikings in the dark, then it could hurt the Browns more than help them.
I think surrounding the team in uncertainty is not a good way to get the season started.
I am operating under the assumption that the entire team knows who the starting QB is and that the starting QB will be getting Starting QB reps this week. If not, then I agree there should be other options. I just don’t think it is even realistic to think that Mangini is still keeping the whole team in the dark.
I doubt the entire team knows, if they did I’m pretty sure it would have been leaked already. It’s hard to keep that many people and their hangers-on quiet.
Why? If the coach tells you to keep your mouth shut because it could be a competitive advantage, why would you leak the info? Because you want to lose? You want to undermine the new coach? You want to gamble with your chance to make the roster or get PT?
None of those reasons. Because it’s hard to keep that many people quiet. Maybe they tell their wives who tell someone who tells the press. It’s not that difficult to imagine. It’s a lot different than trying to leak gameplan info which requires more than a one word explanation. Dorn’s comment says that he didn’t tell the team until now.
I’m sure that Mangini made it clear that if the news got out then the entire team would be running laps until their shoes wore off. I think the players are scared enough of Mangini that they’ll keep their mouths shut if he tells them to.
I would assume that the starting QB is getting most of the reps this week. If that’s not true then I’ll be upset, but I couldn’t care less if he tells the media or not. I just love how everyone at ESPN and the Cleveland media is getting all worked up about this. But the players and the team needs to know.
Right. I don’t care about the media either. Considering that he just told the team on the Tuesday before the game that means the starter will get the reps and the secret will be known to everyone pretty soon.
I guess I just don’t see why this move would be considered a good thing. Terry Pluto seemed to agree with me this morning which was nice.
Yes, but Terry didn’t view it as a bad thing. He understood why Mangini was doing it, he just thought that in the end it wouldn’t make a difference. Which as I said, at worst it is value neutral to the Browns.
OK, last thing I will mention, then I’m done talking about this (at least until another idea pops into my head. From the reporting in the PD, Mangini said yesterday! that he’d tell the QBs in the near future. Whether or not announcing a starting QB is a good idea, I think it is a bad idea to keep the QBs and the team in the dark until the Tuesday of game week.
I agree that is is near impossible for 53+ people to keep their mouths shut.
But if someone with a “source” came out and said they heard from one of the players’ wives’ babysitter that they knew who the starter was, would you believe them? Did people believe the rumors about being interested in Sanchez or trading Braylon and Quinn before the draft?
I bet Mangini is trying to get the whole media engine to the point where no one would believe him even if he straight up told them who the starter was going to be.
From today’s PD:
He said he has not yet told the rest of the team, "but I think they’ll be able to figure it out.’’
The players will know the starter when the team lines up for 11-on-11 drills in practice this morning, which begins at 11:30 a.m. The practice is open to the media for the first 30 minutes, but only for individual and position drills
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/09/browns_coach_eric_mangini_tell.html
So, the team didn’t find out until an hour or two ago. I say something leaks in the next 24.
Yeah, but I think splitting reps like that is Mangini’s strategy anyway. I am not saying it is a good strategy, I just think that even if the whole world knew who was going to start, guys would split the reps. Everyone on the OL got reps everywhere. Ratliff got 1st team reps. Davis and Harrison got first team reps. Lots of people get first team reps.
Mangini feels like all 3 QBs should be preparing like they were the starter anyway, so there shouldn’t be a surprise or a difference in attitude when they know they are going to start.
This whole thing could very well be hurting the Browns, it just isn’t going to change now.
By this point, the whole “mystery QB” thing seems pretty silly. Although it could be somewhat detrimental in the short run, if you think that there’s a high probability that the #2 QB is going to play some meaningful time during the season, then it makes sense to prepare them as thoroughly as possible. Considering injury rates for QBs, there is a very good chance of that happening. In that view, it makes sense to prepare all your QBs to play. It’s clear that fans and the media place a lot more value on announcing the starter than does Mangini. His philosophy appears to be not to say anything (about pretty much everything: starters, injuries, etc.) until you absolutely have to, and then say as little as possible. Remind you of any other famous coach?
I personally think that not naming a starter is more of a distraction to the Browns then the added benefit of screwing with the Vikings.
by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 8, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I suspect this also. This is a team with a new coaching staff, and probably one getting used to a new QB. I would have preferred to have them focus on getting prepared as a first team, let the QB start to lead, rather than chasing this small, one-time advantage. This team needs to grow.
But it’s his team, he knows how NFL players react.
If the Vikings defense has to spend 1 or 2 extra hours preparing for one QB or the other instead of working on something else it is worth it. I’m sure they’ll watch film on each QB… to see their tendencies which are different. They could be just watching the one. It does matter.
But the main thing I like about it, which is probably NOT the reason for it, is that it bothers the media like the dickens and I hate those yo-yos. I mean the highest I’ve seen us in a power ranking is 29 with like 2 wins. Really? We are going to lose 2 more games with a much worse schedule? The Browns are that much worse with a new coach and no K2? Ba-loney.
Brownsyup
The preparation for either QB would be very, very different. Quinn isn’t Pryor, but he can move and do some Jay Cutleresque things on bootlegs because of his athleticism—both throwing and running. I think Minnesota wants DA bootlegging as much as possible.
DA will throw the deep ball, and will throw balls to covered guys to let his WRs try to make a play. DA also isn’t very good at the underneath throws, while that’s Quinn’s strengths.
There is a reason Belichick cheated: the more you know about what the other team is going to try to do, the easier it is to beat them.
I have been wondering…with all the boos that DA got, is mangini keeping it a secret because he wants to start DA without taking all the questions and anger from many fans? I have no idea, this is just a ’i was wondering"
I read something funny on the OBR, that if Mangini starts Anderson on Sunday and he strugges, Browns fans will storm the field and riot.
Are you trying to say you think Pryor is better than Quinn?
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 8, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but Pryor can throw the ball. And he’s a lot younger than Young with a lot of potential.
I’d bootleg Vince out a whole lot, too (if he were the starter). Get him some easy throws to their TEs, and make the defense think about those running backs and the threat of Vince taking off. I’d also make Vince get back in to shape.
i hope b/w now and the NFL, though, someone talks to pryor about that delivery.
I reserve the right to complain about Gimenez at 1B and Carroll in the OF, no matter the facts. - FredOx
by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 9, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Is Cribbs really still going to hold out? After all training camp and preseason I really hoped he would play. I also hoped Mangini would offer him a new contract.
And Dawson
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 8, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
The QB Question
I think it’s as likely that the QB question will be answered by what style the staff wants to run. Quinn may be slightly ahead but if you want a vertical option to complement the running game you’ll go with DA everytime. If you want more of a west-coast it will be BQ.
Mangeni is Defense biased, but seemed to make do with what he had/ was given at the Jets (Pennington/ Favre), and Schottenheimer was the OC over Dabol. So not much to go on- anyone see any other pointers from the recent past?
Done with guessing
I don’t know what the hell to say anymore. After all, it was Mangini’s plan to confuse everyone. Weather I agree with how he approached the situation… doesn’t matter now.
Only one outcome can happen. And those that "predicted" it, will say "I told you so". So I BOO them before the facts and their boasting. Of coarse I have my own idea of what’s going to happen, but I guess it doesn’t matter anymore. So why bother trying to be Nostradamus.
I’m completely stoked that Cribbs is number 2. That will make things interesting. Cribbs and Edwards are both capable of attracting double teams. Which is something not every team can say they can achieve. ‘CribbsIsBeast’. Pay the man.
I’d be more concerned about Pool. I love the guy’s playing style, but its gotten him hurt way too often. I’m hoping the Browns are able to pick up USC’s Taylor Mays in next year’s draft.
by BrownDawg1409 on Sep 8, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I put this in another thread before, but Pool really has not missed a lot of action due to injury. In the past 3 seasons, he has only missed one game.
Berry
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 8, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
FYI, Sean Jones was beat out for the starting safety spot on the Eagles by Macho Harris, a rookie from Va Tech, who played CB in college.
I like the name Golden Tate better
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 8, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
macho harris is a beast though… gotta love the hokies…
Love the Browns, but Brady Quinn is a pretty boy... The trenches is where its at..!
by Hash Brownies on Sep 9, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t read too much into this depth chart.
It seems to be crafted in order to remain vague and to make the following statements:
1. The quarterback position may not be solidified
2. Alex Mack may not be ready to start
3. Josh Cribbs may be ahead of the rookies
4. James Davis may not get many touches
5. Alex Hall may not be ready to supplant David Bowens
In other words, it says nothing.
It’s like a Romeo depth chart except it isn’t set in stone.
by Roger Dorn on Sep 8, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You mean just because Syndric Steptoe was listed No. 2 on the depth chart at receiver last year, we didn’t have to give him all the reps?!?
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 8, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Whatever it takes to make sure the rookies don’t get any experience or else they would become veterans and Romeo would have to trust them.
by Roger Dorn on Sep 8, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
your on a roll
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 8, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
First post...
…I really enjoy this blog and think the info here surpasses what I find on the main Browns website. So, kudos to all of you.
As for the QB deal…if it does help our cause in even the slightest way, I am all for keeping it a secret. We are gonna have a tough time with Minnesota and it’s going to take a lot of tough play, luck and hopefully smarter coaching to turn this team from a legacy of losing into a future of winning. I am very hopefull about this season and think things are gonna work out for us. DA or BQ…doesn’t matter…I’m down with my Browns.
Depth Chart
I think Mangini said early this year the only reason they do a depth cahrt is because they are required to. It means nothing. All 53 will have a role.
Agreed. Though for the players we just picked up, I expect some of them to be on the inactives list each week.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Sep 8, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
Yes, he will reveal nothing, and if a coach is using our depth chart to gameplan, he will be deceived. all it does is list the guys on the team. Especially the positions of Dline and WR, who plays when depends on who you are playing and you want to attack…two TE’s may start some games…it just is overrated and overanalyzed.
Defensive line improvements
Looking at the D-Line, now that is an improvement from last year, adding coleman and starting robaire smith(hurt some of last year) Now Rogers knows what he needs to do and that the players around him can do the job. I Love the improvement here from a year ago.
ILB is a worry for me…as far as the depth is concerned. Having two rookies at the backups has me a bit nervous….that said….Barton has to be a night and day improvement compared to Andre Davis, who overpursued way too many times.
I think the rookies should be fine, and we also have Leon
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 8, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Receiver Improvement
Here I see a much better crew, pending on what BE does. We now have depth…Mangini trying Cribbs here has to be a brilliant idea…and he will excell. We have depth, albeit young depth, I believe quality depth. (Steptoe is in no way an NFL WR)
I believe very soon, Harrison and Davis will be taking the majority of the carries. It takes Lewis 10 steps to go a normal RB’s 3 steps….too much dancing gives LBs time to catch up….still…i just love the guy and I am totally rooting for him. class act.
Off the Cuff Observations
1. If we draft a DE from Hawaii and then move him to ILB where we also drafted Maluava – I would rather just have gotten Maluauga and been done with it.
2. Great job by Mangini – really like the upgrade in WRs this year. Not saying they are great, but when you go from Steptoe as a starter to Robiskie as a 3rd stringer – Nice.
3. Another great job on the DL – Corey Williams on 2nd string, Louis Leonard traded for a pick? Do you believe we have an outside shot at stopping the run?
4. Right side of OL (starting at center) and Secondary issues, primarily at safety, should be enough to keep us from being a good team.
4. I hope Davis and Harrison will both be able to be active on Sundays. Romeo alway irritated me when Harrison and 7.8 ypc were not on the Sunday roster.
5. Guess Robiskie truly wasn’t the “Most NFL ready” receiver in the draft. Thus following Travis Wilson “Steal of the Draft” in destroying labels that were never earned in the first place.
If Tucker were healthy, the right side, (adding St. Clair and Womak), would have been upgraded…with him out, we still have better depth(with Hadnot) than last year.
I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO glad to see we finally have a coach that saw Sowells for what he is and released him.
I like more about Mangini that I dislike…winning will be the deciding factor for us all.
Maluava- A combination of Rey Mauluaga and Kaluka Maiva
" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"
by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 8, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing I think Mangini really liked about Veikune was his intelligence. Maualuga is a fierce hitter, but I think he is a guy that needs to play in a pretty simple scheme. Clearly, people actually in the NFL have a much better perspective on this because they actually got to interview the players, but I get the impression that Veikune picks information up pretty well.
I agree that LB is still a weak area on our team (even if Veikune plays well). We could also use a safety, and a RT. Those are all areas where we clearly don’t have enough young talent.
Yea, my question is…is Maualuga really that good or is he just well known for playing MLB at USC? The Patriots passed on him, but the Bengals picked him up and everyone still assumes he will be a good pro?
He’s well known because he played at USC and made a lot of big hits which ended up on ESPN. The fact that he was thought to be a top-10 pick then slipped to the second round should tell you that many pro teams were worried about his ability to play in the NFL. Now he might end up being a decent player but I don’t think he’s going to be the superstar that many fans think he will be. It’s amazing how many Browns fans are mad that we didn’t pick him in the second round. As you said, let’s see him play in the NFL first before we start assuming the Browns screwed up.
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 9, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Maluauga is tough, strong, fierce and can tackle. That’s whats missing in the middle of our defense, someone who would make opposing RB’s cautious when going up the middle. I would have taken that chance at Rey because he’s gonna maintain that intensity regardless, and we need someone to toughen that interior. Until we get that ILB LB’s are gonna continue to slide off RB’s like they’re coated with teflon
by The Licensed Pessimist on Sep 9, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
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