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Can the Browns Outlast the Vikings this Sunday?

Whether or not the "sources" indicating that Brady Quinn will start this Sunday against the Minnesota Vikings are true, one thing remains sure -- the Browns are going to be passing the football early and often.

The Minnesota Vikings have the best run defense in the NFL, thanks to defensive tackles Pat Williams and Kevin Williams. They also have one of, if not the, best pass-rusher in the NFL in defensive end Jared Allen.

Kevin Williams
6-5, 311 lbs.
Pat Williams
6-3, 317 lbs.
Jaren Allen
6-6, 270 lbs.
"We're a pretty damn good defensive line."

  • Kevin Williams is a run stopper and a sack artist. He had 8.5 sacks last season and is only going to get stronger.
  • Pat Williams is still dominant, although one thing stands out besides his massive size: he's 36 years old. He always commands a double team because he'll eat up opposing running backs. He isn't meant to sack quarterbacks, as he only registered one takedown last year.
  • Jared Allen is in the prime of his career. He had 15.5 sacks two years ago in his final year with the Chiefs. In his first year with the Vikings, he racked up 14.5 sacks. Besides getting sacks, he's always generating pressure and has a knack for stripping the football. That sounds like it'd be more of an issue for Derek Anderson than it would be for Brady Quinn though. One thing is for sure -- Pro Bowl left tackle or not, there is no such thing as "shutting down Jared Allen".

It sure would've been an advantage to the Browns if the Williams brothers (note: they are not actually related) had to begin their four-game suspension at the start of the season. Both of them will play this Sunday though, which means one thing: the already-slow Jamal Lewis really isn't going to find any holes to run through. When I say that, that means you shouldn't be surprised if Lewis has a 10-carry, 15-yard performance on the ground.

That's where the steady development of James Davis throughout the preseason can come in handy. Bernie Kosar kept questioning why we were tipping our hand to opposing teams by running so many screen plays in the preseason. The very reason could be to see what will work best against the Vikings. If we are facing a third-down situation and Allen is racing at Brady Quinn, are we familiar enough with running the screen play to make it work? Or the unpopular draw play that twice in the preseason has gone for first downs with Davis in the backfield?

Nobody is giving the Browns any respect this year. It shows in the national media, when not a single writer is projecting the Browns to finish better than fourth place in the AFC North. It shows in the national media when all anyone can write about is how "dumb" it is for Eric Mangini to not name a starting quarterback. That's the same feeling that Minnesota Viking fans have been spewing over at Daily Norseman, our SB Nation Vikings affiliate, who also believe that this Sunday will be a cakewalk:

"We are going to run the ball down their throat and our defense is going to be to strong for them. Our team is on a mission to prove that we are an elite team. Barring double digit penalties and 3 or more turnovers it won’t be a contest."

"It doesn't matter! Jared Allen, the Williams Wall, and the rest of the Viking’s defense will pressure whatever QB the Browns put out there."

"By the fourth quarter, their defense will have already spent about 30 to 35 minutes on the field; they’ll be pulling at their socks and AP will rack up an additional 100 yards or so in the 4th quarter."

"The differences between Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson are so marginal keeping this info secret is ridiculous and speaks to why the Mangenius got fired from the jets. Jamal Lewis with his 1.8 yds a carry ohhh scary, but wait their scrambling  pocket statue QB will loosen things up with their pedestrian throwing ability and Braylon Edwards will be sure to drop it if they ever get it to him. I predict of lot of passing after the first quarter when they are trailing big!"

"Nothing the Browns do really matters. Their starters are nearly identical, and Allen will eat whoever it is alive. Their running game will get destroyed (regardless of the court outcome this week, it’s going to the Supreme Court, via instant appeal). And their new 3-4 does not have the personnel to be effective. Even if it did, and even if it does give the O-line some problems (We only have 1 rookie on the line, the other is a first time starter), it won’t matter, Peterson will still go crazy and Favre will still abuse the pathetic DBs that they have in Cleveland."

Capt

This is completely unlike the confidence that has been oozing from Browns fans this offseason. However, I think a lot of Vikings fans are a little bit too much in love with their team, especially when they trash our quarterback situation. Isn't this the same franchise that was about to enter the regular season with Tarvaris Jackson and Sage Rosenfels as their quarterbacks to choose from? I would take Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn over them any day of the week.

At least there was one level-headed Vikings fan who understood the reason why Mangini is doing what he is doing, besides "it doesn't matter, both quarterbacks suck":

"It's perceived as an advantage because the defense has to account for both players’ playing styles, which are pretty different. Derek Anderson is much more of a down the field threat, whereas Brady Quinn is much better at the short, intermediate routes.

It’s nothing big, but instead of focusing on one, the players will have to put in a little time for both styles. It won’t matter much, but an advantage is an advantage."

The Vikings have a tremendous defensive line, but fans aren't giving the Browns passing game much credit. At the top of his game, Braylon Edwards is one of the league's best receivers -- far superior to any of those on the Vikings' roster. The tandem of Joshua Cribbs and Mike Furrey looked good in the preseason. Both players held onto the ball in quite a few third-and-long situations, something the Browns can expect to face a lot of this Sunday.

On the other side of the ball, how much time has Brett Favre really had to work with his receivers? Top WR Bernard Berrian didn't even play in a single preseason game under Favre, and he's not guaranteed to play this Sunday due to an injury. The New York media might have portrayed it differently, but the very coach that Vikings fans and the media around the league is poking fun at right now, Eric Mangini, was not responsible for himself getting fired in New York. You can blame that on Favre, who in his last five games with the New York Jets, had the following stats: 2 touchdowns, 9 interceptions. We clearly have a better quarterback situation in Minnesota than we do in Cleveland, don't we?

In the end, all any Vikings fan has to do is mention two words as to why the Vikings should beat the Browns: Adrian Peterson. He's the best running back in the league, and our run defense really hasn't been tested under the Mangini era since Shaun Rogers didn't play at all in the preseason. It's difficult to put together a good defense on how the Browns, or any team for that matter, will stop Peterson. That will simply come down to whether or not the cards unravel your way in the red zone -- do you come up with those big third down stops to force a field goal?

The Browns are slight underdogs this week, and I can't argue against that. Minnesota has a better team overall, but that doesn't always translate to a victory in the NFL. Can the Browns outlast the Vikings this Sunday? After everyone outside of Cleveland has made a mockery of the Browns this offseason, I certainly hope so. It'd be nice for our optimism to have some merit for once.

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No way Pat is only 6 lbs. heavier than Kevin

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 9, 2009 8:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Kevin does have two inches on him.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by Chris Pokorny on Sep 9, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that was my first thought, too

I reserve the right to complain about Gimenez at 1B and Carroll in the OF, no matter the facts. - FredOx

by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 9, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Pat is under 350, I’d be surprised.

by rufio on Sep 10, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah. That guy is huge. Much like how I always think Shaun Roger’s weight always has a 30 pounds taken off.

by skipkirk on Sep 10, 2009 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

in that photo, Pat looks like one fat guy.

by drjeo on Sep 10, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is the LAST team I would want the browns to start the season against. In order to even have a chance, we’d have to somewhat manage the clock and keep the D off the field. You manage the clock by running, and that’s going to be a huge challenge against that front with a rookie in Mack and an old Lewis. And since we won’t be able to manage the clock, the D will get worn down, causing the best and most mobile RB in the league to slice through that interior like swiss cheese. I expect to see a lot of rotation in the front 7. I’m just hoping it doesn’t too messy out there

by Rocland on Sep 9, 2009 8:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow. In no way are those fans bias. At all. Sure they have AP and a dominate D – Line but you have to be pretty ignorant and biased to call our DBs pathetic. And Favre might still have some juice but I do not expect a dominating performance.

Vikings fans are ignorant.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 9, 2009 8:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

For a franchise that has suffered as much as the Browns almost, I would think they would understand humility.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 9, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What you don't understand is...

for the Vikings, there is no tomorrow. Humility will not save an NFL franchise from moving to another city and winning a Super Bowl for them. Yes, I was born in Cleveland, and I own a hand-autographed Browns football. In the Minneapolis, they’re completing a Twin’s ball park, and leaving the Vikings to play one of in the worst revenue-generating stadiums in the league.

Ring any bells? Ed Roski is building a new stadium outside LA and intends to grab the two financially weakest NFL franchises and move them to California.

So yes, Vikings fans are talking big, but the Vikings have the talent to back it up. It’s nothing against Cleveland, but there is a whole lot more on the line for Minnesota than just a game, and as Vikings’ fans, we have to seize the day.

All I can tell you is don’t expect the Vikings players to arrive uprepared or be distracted by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

by Elgar on Sep 9, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The RnR HOF is very disapointing, don’t be fooled. And we have talent too but we aren’t shoving it in people’s faces. Just because you have a lot on the line gives you no permission to be extremely cocky.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 9, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i disagree on the rock hall. i was disappointed early in its history, but i think they’ve done a great job of making it compelling and enjoyable these days.

I reserve the right to complain about Gimenez at 1B and Carroll in the OF, no matter the facts. - FredOx

by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 9, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, the Rock Hall is pretty awesome. I spent about 4 hours there this past summer, and it wasn’t enough time. The Bruce exhibit was a ton of fun, the first floor could take an entire day. They’ve done an incredible job with it. I think you are way off on this.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 10, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Rock Hall isn’t fun if you like bad music.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 10, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was pointing out that it used to be bad I guess. I haven’t been there for awhile so don’t quote me.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 10, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The fans quoted in the main article could at least be cocky and have that attitude in an intelligent fashion. BQ and DA are very different QBs. Eric Wright is very underrated. Braylon was one of the top 5 WR in the NFL in 2007 when he still had the 2nd most drops in the league. The list goes on.

I don’t expect anyone in the NFL to come to play the first game of the year and be distracted by anything.

The last time LA had a football team, it didn’t last very long. LA is not a football town.

by rufio on Sep 10, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I wouldn’t be worried about LA. I don’t think they miss the NFL there very much.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 10, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i live in LA … and they definitely don’t.

but they’re building a new $800mm stadium. think chargers —> LA

I reserve the right to complain about Gimenez at 1B and Carroll in the OF, no matter the facts. - FredOx

by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 10, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That would make some sense.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 10, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I live in Murrieta (smack in the middle of LA and SD) and to say LA doesn’t miss football is somewhat misleading. My TV is LA channels and every Raider preseason game is televised. We get some regular season games, but not all. Even though I live in Charger country, there are still a lot Raider fans here.
I don’t think the Chargers would go to LA. They were approved of a new stadium in Oceanside, Del Mar, or Chula Vista. A $800m stadium which is still being planned.
Chargers sell out every game. They’re going nowhere.

by Brownie's Year on Sep 10, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it’s not really misleading at all. the people in LA, as a general principle, don’t miss pro football. especially w/ USC being pro-quality. if your point is that the pro football that LA does get (AFC W, primarily) on local TV (assuming no DirecTV, which is a neccessity) sucks, well, there’s no arguing that … though, having a team here doesn’t change that.

the LA stadium — in city of industry — is already through the planning stages. i’m not saying it’s guaranteed, but look for the chargers to likely move to LA and become the “southern california” chargers. it’s not a certainty, of course, but “they’re going nowhere” is definitely not a lock.

I reserve the right to complain about Gimenez at 1B and Carroll in the OF, no matter the facts. - FredOx

by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 10, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This post deserves a rec.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 11, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn’t LA lose the Rams and the Raiders, get the Raiders back, and then lose them again? Does that say nothing?

HS players that visit OSU and USC often come away from OSU saying they are impressed with how much the fans in Ohio appreciate the game and even know who they are when they are on campus (vs USC)—even if they end up going to USC.

by rufio on Sep 11, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And, the Lakers mean a whole lot more to LA than a pro football team would.

by rufio on Sep 11, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, and the Browns were pretty much selling out their games in a stadium that seated over 70,000 people before they moved, too. Just saying.

"But people are stupid, and their memories are short." - FredOx

by woodsmeister on Sep 11, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Favre throws two INTs. I called it.

As for TDs, not too many I hope.

by skipkirk on Sep 9, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are only going with 2?

by rufio on Sep 10, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our DB’s honestly aren’t anything to write home about. Everyone talks about the potential they have, but potential and skill are 2 different things and comes out with two different results on the on the field.

by Rocland on Sep 9, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wright is a proven above average CB and Mcdonald is a beast himself. He just has a large Bronco blemish that wasn’t even his fault. And Francies has a lot of potential.

I can bold things too.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 9, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

DB’s include Safeties also. And our safeties are pretty lacking. Wright is good…yes, but McDonald is the same CB who had his job challenged by a CB who came in from the worst secondary in the league last year. He wasn’t as bad a Detha Oneal but he still got ate up many times last year.

And like I said potential is what people say you have when you’re not good but you have future upside. Unless Francies becomes what he’ll be in 3 years from now in 4 days….his potential don’t mean jack against the Vikings

by Rocland on Sep 9, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hood challenged, failed, and was cut. I fail to see how this is a reflection on McDonald unless you mean it could be possibly be a positive reflection.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 9, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if he was an above average and stable CB and the coaches had confidence in him, they wouldn’t have brought in someone else to challenge his position. Thats what I’m saying

by Rocland on Sep 9, 2009 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who said he was challenging? We probably wanted him for depth. Are you Mangini? I don’t feel like you certainly know he was challenging Mcdonald.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 9, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All the reports throughout the offseason mentioned Hood trying out for Mcdonald’s job and the losing CB would become the nickel back. Are you purposely trying to play stupid or do you really think McDonald had the #2 CB position on lock?

by Rocland on Sep 9, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you’re very ignorant actually. I really don’t trust the media for anything and if it didn’t come from Mangini’s lips I don’t buy it. And obviously it wasn’t a challenge because Hood got cut anyways. Case closed.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 9, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now I don’t think your playing stupid, but actually are in denial or just dumb.

by Rocland on Sep 9, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude. I’m dumb? you used the wrong form of you’re.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 9, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok guys, let’s not end the “he’s dumb, your dumb” game at that.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by Chris Pokorny on Sep 9, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The win goes to SpecialBrownie

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 9, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry. I did feel a little childish stooping to that level.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 10, 2009 7:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All the reports

All the reports suggested one thing that didn’t happen….so are we to believe them?

by Roger Dorn on Sep 9, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All the reports throughout the offseason mentioned Hood trying out for Mcdonald’s job and the losing CB would become the nickel back.

And exactly how did that work out? The media doesn’t know or understand a lot of what Mangini does.

by rufio on Sep 10, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, you are off on this Rocland. McDonald has the #2 position on lock now. Maybe not 6 weeks ago, but its pretty clear. Is it that surprising that a new coach would want some veteran experience pushing Wright and McDonald through camp? That Mangini was confident enough to cut Hood after seeing what they could do is a testament to their ability.

The Browns have a lot of weaknesses. Starting CBs is NOT one of them.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 10, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yea, NOW he has the number 2 position on lock, but weeks ago his job was at stake. My point was to go against all the people saying McDonald is a “beast”, or a solid starter. Solid starters don’t have their jobs challenged. Coaches don’t bring in off-season free agents to challenge the positions of “beast”.

One side of the secondary is solid, but the other side is a gaping weakness that probably will be exploited this year with a lack of pass rush and shaky safeties

by Rocland on Sep 10, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Solid starters have their jobs challenged in the NFL all the time. Especially by a new head coach. Especially when a vet is cheaply available. This is a Belichek-era coach we are talking about with Mangini. You have to prove your value if you are a sure fire HOF’er or if you are a UDFA rookie.

I don’t think you really appreciate this dynamic.

The fact that Eric Mangini wanted to test his two young corners- which he probably hadn’t seen a whole lot of before training camp- and that those two corners easily and decisively won their job is a big, big plus to Wright and McDonald.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 10, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is false.

www.lowbrowsophisticate.com

by kwoog on Sep 10, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am confused as well. I see a point but not a very strong one. It’s nothing I’m going to bother myself with.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 9, 2009 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A surprising name on said list is cornerback Roderick Hood, who the Browns just signed this offseason to help bolster the defensive backfield. The 27-year old Hood was thought to be competing for a starting spot on the Browns and was recently touted as an upgrade over last season. Unfortunately, he has gone from starting in the Super Bowl to having a fairly bad preseason ultimately resulting in his release.

Even on the Browns Team report they constantly stated Hood was trying out for the starting position. Still confused?

Even this is in the article;

The cornerback position currently rosters Eric Wright, Brandon McDonald, Hank Poteat, Corey Ivy and Coye Francies. Not exactly an intimidating bunch, but still better than one that features Terry Cousin.

by Rocland on Sep 9, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We dropped Ivy but nice try. That mess up just lost your credibility.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 9, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So in your world, you’d rather they gift wrap the starting job to the weaker of the 2 cb’s without bringing anyone that could potentially help? And then when the incumbent beats out the guy they brought in to the point that they cut said player, you think this poorly reflects on the guy that easily won the battle?

by Roger Dorn on Sep 9, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ll say it- I’ll take Wright, McDonald, Poteat and Francies over about 3/4 of the CBs on any other team.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 10, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wright is a proven above average CB and Mcdonald is a beast himselfand Mcdonald is a beast himself

to say he’s “proven” is a major stretch, and mcd was rated as one of the worst #2 cb’s in football last year by football outsiders.

I reserve the right to complain about Gimenez at 1B and Carroll in the OF, no matter the facts. - FredOx

by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 9, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’d call Wright a proven above-average CB, at worst. He’s pretty good.

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 9, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think he’s very good, and i think he will be above average … but to say he’s “proven”, after a rocky rookie season and one season of solid growth, is absurd.

I reserve the right to complain about Gimenez at 1B and Carroll in the OF, no matter the facts. - FredOx

by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 10, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed, very absurd.

by Rocland on Sep 10, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A few years ago, FO mentioned McDonald as one of the better CBs that no one knew about.

He’s done well against great WRs (Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne come to mind) in the past.

He definitely isn’t one of the worst #2s.

by rufio on Sep 10, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really like FO, but they have some major flaws in some of their numbers. How they rate CBs is very misleading, and I don’t think very useful.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 10, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough … but can we say there’s some contention about mcdonald’s status as a “beast”?

I reserve the right to complain about Gimenez at 1B and Carroll in the OF, no matter the facts. - FredOx

by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 10, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not ready to call McDonald a beast. I would say work in progress….makes plays, but a weak tackler.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 10, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, I wouldn’t have used the word “beast”.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 10, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes. “Beast” is too far. I will go with “solid”, “good”, or “not anywhere close to as bad as Terry Cousin”.

by rufio on Sep 10, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NFL.com has McDonald as one of the top 5 breakout players in the AFC North this year. They called him a "underrated ball-hog".

by Brownie's Year on Sep 10, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes. They’re not pro-bowlers. But our CBs are over the average line in the NFL (I wish I could say the same for our safeties). And I don’t envisage anyone of them getting burned.

If our pass rush was better we wouldn’t leave our DBs stranded forcing them to cover WRs for so long.

by skipkirk on Sep 9, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If our pass rush was better we wouldn’t leave our DBs stranded forcing them to cover WRs for so long.

this is true

by Rocland on Sep 9, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think they are great, but they aren’t scrubs. Wright is good, and so is Pool. The jury is out on Elam, McDonald is decent, and Francies is just a rookie.

I am all for drafting Mays or Berry.

by rufio on Sep 10, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I stopped reading at ‘10 carries for 15 yards’ for JL.
That is the lamest thing I have ever heard.
C’mon Chris, that’s just wrong

One hit on Favre and he’s done.
Browns 23-17

by Brownie's Year on Sep 9, 2009 9:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wasn’t Chris the one who told us to stop putting JL down? Haha.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 9, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really? ;)

The statement was supposed to extra emphasize what the Vikings could do to us in their most dominant form. In actuality, I’m hoping/expecting something more like 17 carries for 45 yards from Lewis. Not much better, but typical of a struggling running game vs. a top run defense.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by Chris Pokorny on Sep 9, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My only hopeis that he doesn’t get 10 carries.

Also, how can you say “one hit on Favre and he’s done”? Say what you want about him, he is the toughest guy in professional sports.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 10, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Favre is tough. He’s also old, graced with lingering injuries, and potentially rusty. I think it’d have to be one fairly unlucky hit, but the possibility is there.

Of course, the question is whether it’s better for him to be out of the game, or just to feel forced into heroic gunslinging which we can take advantage of!

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 10, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tough as he may be, he’s old and he’s been hurt a lot recently.

by rufio on Sep 10, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hurt as much as he has been in his career. But this is a guy who has played through terribly debilitating and painful injuries like thumb separations and shoulder issues. i like a lot of matchups for us in the Browns/vikings game, but I’m not counting on any Favre injuries.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 10, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you serious? Tell me his bicep injury didn’t hamper him last year.

He’s had that biceps injury, a (probably) cracked rib, and a partially torn rotator cuff in less than a year. He hasn’t been that hurt over the entire course of his career.

Counting on his injuries is different than thinking that they will impact his ability to play. The man is old for a football player. If every other football player ever has shown a trend, its been that they wear down over time.

I’m not saying he won’t play the whole game or that he won’t light us up for a bazillion yards, but he is more injured and more susceptible to injury now than ever.

by rufio on Sep 11, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough. Like I said, he is hurt as much as he ever has been now, but he’s played at a high level before when only 75%, I’m not counting him out when he is 70%.

Also, I don’t buy the cracked rib.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 11, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lets hit him a little and find out.

by rufio on Sep 11, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He said he wont play all the games this year

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 12, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Outlasting may not be the right goal

The Minnesota Vikings have the potential to be one of the elite teams in the NFL. Their defense is already there and with just a little improvement on the other side of the ball they are a top team. A Super bowl contender. So while I am not going to say the Browns won’t win. I will say I will be extremely pleasantly surprised. So why am I still excited about this game? The answer is in the improvement I believe we will see versus Browns 08. While we may not win I expect to see a more disciplined less aggravating Browns team on display. I am talking fewer penalties and other mental mistakes. I believe that Minnesota will have to do more than just show up in order to notch this win. I finally believe the Browns will actually show some backbone to include better hitting, tackling and line play. This game should actually be close because while AP may break 100 yards we will not give up allot of points. That requires some clarification. Just what is allot of points? In this case I think we can hold them under 23 points. If we were to averaged 20+ points allowed for the year that would be bad. But against this team I think that is a win. On the other side of the ball I think we will struggle to run initially, but if we don’t abandoned it and maintain some semblance of balance we will move the ball and we will score. I also believe the D and Special teams will give us scoring opportunities. Sadly I believe most of our scoring will come from kicking an oblong ball in between two poles. I expect 15-17 points from the Quinn led Browns. I expect to see the Offense struggle but not quit, to give the D some breaks, and most importantly not embarrass itself. I have one concern. It showed itself in the preseason and the player in question has a history of it. I am speaking of Mr. John St Claire. It’s not that others are not capable of that little flinch that kills drives. It just seems that he is more capable than others. I don’t enjoy singling out a player, but is my post and my fear. So that is my two cents and that is probably what this post is worth. I look forward to the next 17 Sundays. Go BROWNS!!

by Patience is a Browns Fan on Sep 9, 2009 9:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments like this seem very unappealing to readers.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 9, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

(Because it’s huge.)

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 9, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does someone that read this mind summing it up. I dont feel like reading that mess

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 9, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s a good post, not to mention a great username. Patience, perhaps try better formatting next time so others can enjoy your thoughts a bit easier.

by Monsters of the Midway on Sep 10, 2009 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well I read it, and I guess it sums up my hopes for the game.

Just want to see a competitive Browns side with no dropped heads.

by skipkirk on Sep 9, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“New 3-4”

?

" Of course Steroids should be allowed! I wanna see 700 foot home runs and 90 yard field goals! I litterally want to see someone's d**k get shoved in the dirt!"

by BradyQuinnisBeast on Sep 9, 2009 11:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I honestly believe we have a real shot at winning this game. The lack of respect coming from everywhere is ridiculous. Peter King picked the Browns to have the worst record overall in the league. I think you will see the Browns come out attacking this Sunday from the start. I just hope to see some creativity with the play-calling. That’s what it’s going to take without multiple playmakers on offense. I wouldn’t underestimate our young corners either. Favre will be rusty in his first game. GO BROWNS!

by Overlord1976 on Sep 9, 2009 11:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think the game will come down to two words: Special Teams.

If I recall correctly, some of the Vikings’ fans did cite concern about their kicking coverage. Provided that Cribbs can give us some big plays and set us up with some prime field positon, the game will be that much easier for Quinn and the running game.

by BrownDawg1409 on Sep 10, 2009 12:05 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rex Ryan D will be in full force to stop the run and pressure Farve. With no name WR’s Wright and McDonald will be left on an island.

AP will get 150, 1TD. Farve 17-29 2 INT 1TD

Cribbs 2TDs, Braylon 1TD, Quinn 22-32 2TDs, 1INT

Browns 27 Vikings 20

by Guage80 on Sep 10, 2009 12:13 AM EDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

sorry Rob not Rex

by Guage80 on Sep 10, 2009 12:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

sorry Rob not Rex

by Guage80 on Sep 10, 2009 12:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

i’ll take it. i want to see cribbs just go off in this game….breaking tackles and stiff-arming DBs. my only concern is: will the vikings actually have to throw the ball?

Cleveland and OSU homer

by rockybrown on Sep 10, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No Names?

Love the NFL, love the competion, I’ve even got a soft spot for the Brown’s, but “no name WR’s” for the Vikes? Really? I would absolutely love if Wright and McDonald are left on an island with our Wide Outs. They’ll have some get some good quality time to get to know Berrian, Rice, and Harvin. Oh, and the man beast known as Shiancoe.

Braylon – 873 yards in 2008
Berrian – 964 yards in 2008

Nothing wrong with flying under the radar in my book.

by Hagar the Horrible on Sep 10, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m only a little (very small) intimidated by Shiancoe but other than that you have No Names and an unproven rookie with injury problems. I see no argument.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 10, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The name Rice makes me quiver when I think of WRs. Wait, you weren’t talking about Jerry? You mean Sidney Rice who had 15 catches for 141 yards last year? Oh.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 10, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup!

Sidney. Spent the whole year hurt last year, looks good so far! It’s going to be a fun year!

by Hagar the Horrible on Sep 10, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is Berrian going to play this Sunday? Not saying he won’t, I just haven’t heard an update.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by Chris Pokorny on Sep 10, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Berrian

I’m not sure. I hope he does, but I know he tweaked his hamstring in the first game of the preseason and has been rehabing it ever since. We cut Bobby Wade today and picked up a litteral unknown so who knows what Childress is up too.

by Hagar the Horrible on Sep 10, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah if its no Berrian and no Wade, I’m looking at a very weak receiving corp. I do like Shiancoe and I think he’ll have a big year with Favre, but I’m not too scared of your receivers against our corners.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 10, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lewis isn’t awful; he had some good times in Philly. But to cut Wade suddenly in favor of him…don’t really get it.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by Chris Pokorny on Sep 10, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rice has a lot of potential. So far, he hasn’t proven anything. We face much better #2s in our division. We face more physical #2s in the division, we face faster #2s in the division, we face better route runners in the division, etc.

Berrian does one thing well, but only one thing. He’ll make a big play, but he won’t be a consistent producer, and he’s coming off an injury. I really like Wright’s matchup with him. If he was on an island he would just have to play off so that Berrian couldn’t open up his stride and run past him; Wright has the edge in acceleration, change of direction, and ball skills, IMO.

Shiancoe is underrated, but is also a TE, not a WR and probably won’t be covered by our CBs under normal circumstances. I am perfectly fine leaving Pool on an island vs Shiancoe.

by rufio on Sep 10, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like our DBs in this matchup, because they can all catch. Favre is bound to throw a couple their way. He thought he cracked a rib in the preseason, and reportedly has a partially torn/damaged rotator cuff. I partially tore my rotator cuff and could not throw anything normally for about 6 months. I’m no Brett Favre, but I was a 21 year old kid when I did it. He’s old. He isn’t as durable as he once was.

AD will get his. Hopefully 170 and 2TDs won’t win this game. A few big runs or a few Cribbs kick returns could really change this game for us.

Win or lose, I just hope the product on the field is good.

by rufio on Sep 10, 2009 12:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I’d love to see the D pressure Favre into many bad throwing situations. But if the pressure doesn’t arrive and the offense can’t move the ball, the Browns D could be in for a long afternoon. That’s when I’m most concerned about the DB’s getting “burned”.

Having said that, I think there is much more depth that can rotate in and out from the front 7 this year. Rubin showed some promise in the pre-season and the million dollar man Corey Williams is a back-up on the depth chart this year.

Like most everyone else, a win would be amazing, but it would be nice to see a real football team out there for once.

by Monsters of the Midway on Sep 10, 2009 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it just me, or does anyone else think Kam Wimbley might be able to run around Phil Loadholdt for a sack or two?

by rufio on Sep 10, 2009 1:36 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

agree

Cleveland and OSU homer

by rockybrown on Sep 10, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you see any of Loadholt’s film from the combine or Senior Bowl practices? Robaire Smith will be able to run around him. Watch this video from 1:00 to 1:20 and you’ll see that this guy has terrible feet:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d80f2f642/2009-Combine-workout-Phil-Loadholt

by Bumblyjack on Sep 10, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Phil Loadholt’s long arms and impressive strength make him a very good run blocker as long as he isn’t asked to pull or move too much, but he is poor in pass protection.

His technique is bad in the above film because he is sliding his feet instead of taking quick, small steps. This negates his power throughout the motion and makes him susceptible to a bull rush (the Vikings staff has probably corrected his techinique, though).

A DE such as Robaire Smith or C.J. Mosley could defeat Loadholt’s block by taking a quick first step upfield like in an outside speed rush and then moving into a B-gap bull rush. Given Loadholt’s poor agility, balance, and feet it should be like walking through a revolving door. He will need inside help from the right guard. If we bring another pass rusher either in the A-gap between the guard and center (Rogers or a LB) or in the C-gap outside of Loadholt (Wimbley, etc) we may be able to get a sack.

Our key in generating a pass rush is to overload the weak right side of their line and leave the left side guys on an island with no one to block. If our DEs are athletic enough, we could even drop them into short zone coverage to give more confusing looks.

by Bumblyjack on Sep 10, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, Robaire, Mosley, and the rest of our DEs don’t get to just choose the gap they want to rush every snap.

Sometimes they do, but that is when they are two-gapping, and they should not be starting upfield like they are trying to run around the OT if their responsibility is to two-gap. That should look more like they shot their hands at the OT and tried to bull-rush him right off the snap.

Loadholdt is a big, strong man. He isn’t fast for an NFL guy, but he didn’t get drafted and earn a starting tackle job because he has zero pass protecting skills.

I do agree that he is slower, and not as good in pass pro as in run blocking. I also think he is susceptible to speed rushes and redirections off of a speed rush (make him move quickly, then use his own movement/lack of balance against him).

I also agree that the C through RT is the area on the Vikings that you want to exploit. Their C is a 2nd year player replacing a pro bowler, and Loadholdt is a rookie. Herrera, their RG is not great in space, either. Contrast that with Hutchinson and McKinnie on the left side, and I think the weak area is clear.

I would love to see us bring different guys from different angles at the right side of the line as you suggest. Some TNT would be pretty nice to see too because it would virtually eliminate the middle of the line for Peterson (because of Shaun Rogers) and would isolate Rogers on a young kid.

by rufio on Sep 10, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe we could get Rubin some playing time and let Big Baby go against the Right Side of the line. The only downside of this is that the Vikings could just run away from Rogers.

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 10, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’d like to see him vs Hutchinson one on one. Rubin will play a fair amount of snaps, but probably while Rogers sits—but—I wouldn’t count any defensive wrinkle out.

by rufio on Sep 11, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m more hopeful about this season than I have about any other. Could just be the start of the season hype, but I think this game will be a lot closer than people think. Of course AP will break free a couple times and pick up his yards, but I really think it could go down to the wire. Can’t wait til Sunday!

"It’s tough," Martinez said. "This is my house. This is my home."
We'll miss you, Vic

by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Sep 10, 2009 9:43 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with the statement “the Vikings will have to do more than show up” that many hold here. I think the Browns have about a 30% chance of winning the game. Here are the keys as I see them:

BROWNS
- Pull out all the stops. Take risks.
- Stop the run and that is a tall order with AP but it has to be a priority
- Pressure on Favre, force him to make the mistakes he is prone to make
- Special teams must step up and make plays to improve field position and force turnovers

VIKINGS
- Run, run and run.
- Control the ball and keep the Browns defense tired and their offense off the field
- Keep Favre under control so he doesn’t just start chucking it downfield

The way to win this game for the Browns is to somehow get an early lead. This could come from special teams but might also be created by something shifty and clever on offense. If the Vikings gain an early lead and can play conservative power football it is going to be a long day for the Browns and Browns fans.

Good luck Browns and enjoy the game Browns fans!

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Sep 10, 2009 10:42 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow - Vikes Site Should Strengthen

Their analysis. While I agree the Vikes have a great shot at becoming an elite team – what have they really accomplished to make those claims? Just for starters -

1. BQ is not a statue at QB. He is able to roll out and is a far superior athelete to the old man.

2. Mangini was not fired for his secretiveness as much as his poor handling and the eventual performance of Brett Favre.

3. Favre is a risk. He is 40. You have to question his work ethic due to his recent habit of skipping camps. The Browns best chance to win is if Brett throws some picks.

by realmccoy on Sep 10, 2009 11:34 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Favre was truly terrible at the end of the season last year. He was very much responsible for the Jets’ tanking at the end of the season. I don’t see why the Vikes are so sure he is going to help them… it is just as likely that he’ll hurt them. And if he gets injured (highly likely) they’ll be scrambling and it might mean a couple of losses while they get re-oriented to the backup. Though I think Farvre is a hall-of-fame QB, I think it was a mistake for Minnesota to pick him up, especially with no training camp.
Oh, and ain’t if fun to see him backpedaling and saying he might not be able to play all 16 games as he has a torn rotator cuff in his shoulder and a cracked rib? I mean, as an elder athlete I know how difficult it is to keep your body going and cope with these nagging injuries. I don’t wish anything bad on Brett but I think it is inevitable.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Sep 10, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Play hard, and play smart. Keep penaltys and turnovers way down
 Stay in the game and steal it in the 4th quarter.

by Grockcubs on Sep 10, 2009 12:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm a vikings fan and posted one of the comments highlighted above,

specifically this one: “By the fourth quarter, their defense will have already spent about 30 to 35 minutes on the field; they’ll be pulling at their socks and AP will rack up an additional 100 yards or so in the 4th quarter.”

I didn’t intend that as a slam at the Browns; I was just stating (in probably a slightly exaggerated manner) what I thought was a very legitimate point: The Vikings, between AP and the west coast offense, run a very ball control type of game, which will eat up the clock and keep the defense on the field.

The Browns are likely not going to be able to run well against the Vikings; if they’re going to move the ball it is going to have to be downfield. Even if they are succesful at that and score, it is not going to be with long drives.

So I think that time of possession will be a key factor in this game, and that typically pays off in the 4th quarter. It is going to be very hard for any defense (not the just the Browns) to be able to stop Petersen running if they are tired, and I think the Browns ‘D’ will be tired.

We’ve all seen it late in games. It gets tougher and tougher on every play and yes, the defensive players are often literally bent over as if they’re ‘tugging at their socks’ when they are that worn out.

Hope you guys have a great season (but not against us). I saw Jim Brown play back in the 60’s and I still tell anyone who asks that he is the best to ever put on the uniform.

by Migrant lurker on Sep 10, 2009 1:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough.
I like the Vikes helmets but I hope they get pwned in the nubsauce by the Browns. Other than that, have a nice season.

Brownsyup

by Brownsyup on Sep 10, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fairly spoken. I expect to see screens, short passing, and some gadgetry deployed by the Browns to get around possible running difficulties, though. We’ll see.

I look forward to watching the Favre experiment all year long with you folks. Of course, I hope the Browns write a surprising first chapter!

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Sep 10, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don’t think any of what you’ve said here is unfair. i’m not sure a favre-lead offense would ever be characterized as “ball control”, but w/ AP and your line, i can see the minny offense being very much under control.

i’m interested in the minny fans’ reaction to the favre signing? excitement? apprehension?

also, just as a general question … if a defense is on the field so much as to be tired, wouldn’t it stand to reason that the offense is equally as tired? granted, tired defenses have manifested themselves over and over in football, but i’ve always been curious as to why the offense must be much better conditioned than the defense in this “so much time on the field leaves a defense exhausted” theory.

I reserve the right to complain about Gimenez at 1B and Carroll in the OF, no matter the facts. - FredOx

by DontCallMeJoey on Sep 10, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, don’t forget AP’s fumble woes.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 10, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I always figured the D was working harder than the O over the same period of time because the D is often reacting and having to adjust to what the O is doing. And when all of the defenders swarm to the ball they are often covering more ground than their offensive counterparts. Not sayin’ that’s right, but that was always my impression.

by JustBob on Sep 11, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How else would you move the ball? Backwards? Becuase that’s bad.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 10, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t disagree with you about your running game being able to eat up clock, but if BQ does in fact start, he will complete short passes and have the ability to eat up some clock and sustain long drives as well.

by rufio on Sep 10, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone else totally stoked to see some Josh Cribbs on some quick screens?

by Bernie19Kosar on Sep 10, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yo! I’m totally excited about this.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 10, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think people are forgetting that Quinn is just as susceptible to throwing picks as favre is because of his lack of experience and most importantly Jared freakin Allen. If anything I think the vikings will avoid putting Favre in high risk situations, and they may be successful if AP has his way at the running game

by Rocland on Sep 10, 2009 1:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Quinn has had enough experience to play like a regular QB. Everybody understands he is susceptible to throwing picks; that’s the nature of being a QB. And Favre will put himself in high risk situations regardless of what the Vikings try to do.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 10, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Has old man river played 4 quarters?

I’m sorry, but the Vikes act like Farve isn’t going to be a liability. Mangini knows how’s to bait Farve. He witnessed an entire season of teams exploiting Farve’s “grip it and rip it” style. Our D is going to be licking their chops for a pick six. And we’ll see how quick his wrangler’s snap back into shape when 6’4 350 pounds of Number ’92 comes landing on him.

Don’t give us any respect. Write this off as a victory or just another warm-up game to the real season. Bring your cocky attitude to our house…just don’t be surprised when we cordially introduce your teeth to our fist.

I think the Browns are gonna win…24 – 17.

by the irish chop on Sep 10, 2009 2:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow, with that comment I was expecting you to call a shutout. 70 – 0.

by SpecialBrownie on Sep 10, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Favre.

There is little doubt in my mind that Favre will make mistakes, everyone does. I just really see Favre as an upgrade over Gus Ferotte who basically got us into the playoffs last year. You can’t even put the two on the same level. So with that being said our teeth are really looking forward to meeting your fist. Game on gentlemen!

by Hagar the Horrible on Sep 10, 2009 3:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think the key will be for the Browns defense to find something that works and stick with it until it stops working. When I saw the Titans start reducing their rush last night I knew they had lost the game. Hopefully the Browns play callers on both sides will be smarter than that.

by JustBob on Sep 11, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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