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Mike Holmgren 1/11 Presser: Tom Heckert Hired, Cribbs Negotiations, and Quinn's Injury

The Cleveland Browns named Tom Heckert as their new general manager, an announcement that was all but confirmed several days ago. Team president Mike Holmgren spoke with the media today on several topics; I'll highlight some of them here.

Link to Full Transcript | Link to Audio of Press Conference

Regarding Tom Heckert's Duties

(On if Heckert will have control of the 53-man roster)- "Yes, he's going to set up the 53-man roster, but I would temper that just a little bit. He and I are going to be in close communication on that. That will be his responsibility."

(On what he believes are Heckert's strengths)- "If you look at his resume first of all, he has got tremendous experience in the league. I think he has a tremendous work ethic. He is very, very bright. He's been successful. He's done a great job in both Miami and Philadelphia. Lastly, his personality is one [where] he's a great team player and very impressive guy. I think when you get a chance to talk to him and meet with him you'll see that as well."

(On how much Heckert had to deal with draft in Philadelphia and if that is a big part of what he'll be doing here)- "Terry (Pluto), Andy Reid and I are really good friends. Andy thought the world of Tom. I think they worked hand in hand, but clearly Tom set up the board, ran the personnel side of that. As you approach the draft you, of course, you funnel down those meetings from assistant coaches, scouts and everybody down to the decision makers and I think that's what happened in Philadelphiaand that's what will happen here. Tom had a lot to do with the success they had in Philadelphia in personnel. If you asked Andy Reid he would tell you the same thing."

(On the relationship between Heckert and Mangini and why Heckert withdrew himself from consideration last year)- "They've been together all day today, I'll tell you that. They seem to be doing fine. I didn't hear any yelling down there. I went in there a couple times. I think that's a good question to ask Tom tomorrow to be honest. I could give you my answer, what I think his reasons were. Ask him tomorrow, he'll tell you. It had nothing to do with Eric. I had something to do with, I believe he'd tell you, about his situation in Philadelphia, what he wanted to accomplish there and so on. Absolutely ask him tomorrow."

Thoughts: No surprise here, as this was pretty much what was mentioned last week. Assuming Eric Mangini was responsible for acquiring players like Matt Roth and Evan Moore, hopefully he receives a fair amount of input still as well. I'm looking forward to Heckert's press conference tomorrow.

Job Security of Assistant Coaches

(On if the assistant coaches will be back in their current roles next season)- "That'll be Eric's call. Of course we've talked about it. He's going through that right now. My feeling is, in our initially conversations, is that he was pleased with how the guys did this year. That's not to say that if someone became available that a change might take place. All in all, I think that we're still a little bit away from that. As of right now things are pretty much as they were last there. There could be a couple changes though down the road, but not yet."

Thoughts: I have a feeling Brian Daboll will be back next season. It's probably the right thing to do at this point, because if he doesn't do well next season from the get-go, pressure can easily be placed on Mangini from the front office to replace him.

'Take it or Leave it' to Cribbs?

(On where things stand with Joshua Cribbs' contract)- "I said it the other day, I believe I said this, that we would like Josh here, certainly. He's a part of the Browns and a wonderful player for us. He has got three years left on his current contract. It's almost unprecedented to change that dramatically in this business. Having said that, what we've tried to do is absolutely reward him for what he's done and what potentially he could do in the future and we have a difference of opinion. You guys that have covered sports for a long time realize that that happens. Everybody, I think, wants this to work out and I'm no different. We will continue to have dialogue, if possible. We're looking at ways now maybe to change what's going on with Josh and the offer and we'll see. We're getting new people in here and trying to get people in place. I'm new. I'm still hopeful that [to] everyone's satisfaction we can work this out."

(On if was not a ‘take it or leave it' offer made to Cribbs)- "That take it or leave it stuff, I think that went out a long time ago. I'm not sure you ever say that. The one thing that I think you have to try and avoid is negotiating against yourself. Any sort of negation is, in my opinion, a two way street. My hope is that we can get this to a win-win situation. Yes, I think there's a chance. There's light at the end of the tunnel hopefully."

Thoughts: It was certainly a calming demeanor presented by Holmgren. I still have faith that things will be worked out, especially now that a general manager is officially on board.

Update on Brady Quinn's Injury

(On Brady Quinn's injury)- "I met with our training staff today. I don't believe he is going to need surgery. He needs some time, clearly. As far as the specifics of the injury, again, we can talk about that little bit tomorrow, but I don't believe he is going to have to have surgery."

(On if Quinn has a lisfranc injury)- "That's the first thought, yes."

Thoughts: Hopefully he doesn't need surgery! Either way, it might be moot if Holmgren is able to lure Matt Hasselbeck to the Browns.

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What are the odds of Hasselbeck to the Browns?

by emily522 on Jan 11, 2010 10:30 PM EST reply actions  

I actually like that…I think seattle is done with him…if we only have to give up one of our 3rd or 4th rounders and a draft pick I will not mind it.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Hasselbeck would fit very nicely right now…not to beat a dead horse, but Quinn in no way did himself any favors this year in terms of solidifying himself as our starting QB for the long term. He was awful more than he was good, or even mediocre at that.

"I don’t dance too much." --Mike Holmgren

by johnnyphoenix on Jan 12, 2010 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Think Jim Mora “Playoff” voice:

Hasselback?! Hasselback?! Are you Kiddin’ me?! Hasselback!!?"

http://prideofcleveland.blogspot.com/

by Red-Right-88 on Jan 12, 2010 7:36 AM EST up reply actions  

What’s that? Ah — Hasselbeck? Don’t talk about — Hasselbeck? You kidding me? Hasselbeck? I hope we can just resign our players.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 7:57 AM EST up reply actions  

IMO Hasselback has seen better days, he couldnt make good use of TJ housemensadah…killed the spelling but we remember the guy that was with the Bungles.

http://prideofcleveland.blogspot.com/

by Red-Right-88 on Jan 12, 2010 8:30 AM EST up reply actions  

I bet what I said was what jim mora Jr would think (if still coaching the team) if we WANTED to trade for him

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 9:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Houshamazilli. …Championship!

by Chemo on Jan 12, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Housh sucks. He just doesn’t know it yet.

by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 12, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Hasselbeck is getting “washed up”. He has been injured the last few years and we need to get a younger QB in the system. Hasselbeck was good back in the day, but please not in Cleveland.

by holmes213 on Jan 12, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I am not a big fan, very injury prone at this point. Might be okay as a stop gag. My expectation is that the Kevin Kolb rumors will heat up leading to the draft given Heckert was the Eagles GM.

by Roger Dorn on Jan 12, 2010 9:05 AM EST up reply actions  

If anything, McNabb and Vick get canned.

Kolb is their starter of the future my friend.

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 12, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

I would love to get Kolb. I would give up two 2nd round picks for him.

Andy Reid said yesterday that McNabb will be the starter next year. That could change, of course, but they can’t keep both McNabb and Kolb forever. I would be happy with either of those two, whichever one they want to get rid of.

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 12, 2010 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I think I would give up the #7 for him. I would want Philly’s third back, but I think even straight up I would give up the #7.

by danvail on Jan 12, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t like giving up picks, especially for a QB that could be good but hasn’t proven to be a good starter over a long period of time. yes he looked good in a couple spot starts, but so did DA…who knows what would happen once the league got a scouting report against him and started to gameplan against him.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Why wouldn’t you just take Clausen or Bradford with the 7th pick?

I think that Matt Schaub trade would be a pretty good indicator of what it would take to get Kolb. Two second rounders and the Falcons moving up 2 spots in the first round by swapping picks with Houston.

Personally, I am not sure that I would give up a high second for him.

by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 12, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Presumably because you think that Kolb is better than Claussen or Bradford. I’m not sure if I think that — though the fact that Kolb has completed NFL passes is appealing — but that’s why you’d do it.

I like trades like the Schaub trade. I think that was smart all around. There’s a lot more data on NFL players than college players, so if you think you’ve identified a solid backup, go get him.

by Chemo on Jan 12, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

1. Kolb will caost waay too much and I would not pay much for him honestly.

2. yes…he has 2 more career NFL starts than bradford…wow, we know so much more….

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

He also has two (or three?) years of NFL practice time. That helps immensely.

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 12, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

yes. somewhat true, but it is still too much of a gamble to give up a high round pick.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

So does Quinn. And Quinn doesn’t cost us a top ten pick or two seconds or whatever.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 12, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Quinn also hasn’t played as well as Kolb has this year. He has seemed to get worse since last year, not better, and that’s going in the wrong direction.

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 12, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Last year he had a Probowl WR and a ProBowl TE and he didn’t have to deal with injuries to both starters on the right side of the o-line.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 12, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

To be clear, I’m not saying that Quinn is the answer. I’m saying that we still don’t know what we have in Quinn and that a choice between Quinn and another unproven guy that would cost us a high pick or multiple high picks isn’t much of a choice at all.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 12, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed. I have not seen enough on either to make a decision.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Completely agree. Regardless of Quinn and whether he pans out or not, it’s just too steep a price to trade away that pick.

by Western Reserve on Jan 12, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

but 2 starts does not a season make. yes kolb looked good when starting but in extremely limited time…the whole point is, IMO, he is not worth giving up major picks for (especially our first rounder). He had a lot of questions coming out as being a system QB in a non-pro style offense in houston. Eagles are also not the traditional (truly) pro style and run more than many teams out of the shotgun.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Brad is right: because Kolb has years of NFL experience, is ready to start now, and would actually come a good deal cheaper than the #7 QB draftee.

Personally, I think he’s significantly better than Quinn, but that’s not what I care to discuss as I’ve done that to death here in the past. Long story short, he seems to be able to make all the throws and I don’t think Quinn can.

by danvail on Jan 12, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

He has years of backup experience…like quinn…his first 2 starts mirror quinns first 2 starts except slightly worse, and against slightly worse defenses…for all we know, he could perform just about as well ad Quinn (who, for the exception of KC where he might have been injured, played well as long as he wasn’t playing a top 10 passing defense.

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

No to Kolb. Maybe to drafting a QB.

by rufio on Jan 14, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

There are rumors that the Browns want to ditch Quinn and Anderson

Here are the main candidates:
-McNabb (I’d love to have him. A rookie qb could sit on the bench for two seasons or so and learn under him.)
-Hasselbeck (Same.)
-Kevin Kolb (I think the Eagles will move from McNabb and keep Kolb. Also, I’d rather not trade a high draft pick for someone who hasn’t had much starting experience. Kolb looked good but Philly’s WRs, etc. are much better than ours. I’d rather get McNabb or Hasselbeck to mentor a rookie.)

Other possibilities include:
-Michael Vick (NO!!!), AJ Feeley (Who?), Josh McCown (Who?), Trent Edwards (Uh…)

by emily522 on Jan 14, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Charlie Frye.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 14, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh how could I forget? He’s #1 on my list.

by emily522 on Jan 14, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe the Raiders would give us Gradkowski back!

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 14, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

what about pennington, orton, or tavaris. all these guys are FAs

by bross09 on Jan 14, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m sure all decent FA QBs will be considered.

by emily522 on Jan 14, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

…which means “according to Tony Grossi”.

Which means, pure speculation, combined with internet re-reporting of speculation.

by rufio on Jan 15, 2010 2:36 AM EST up reply actions  

combined with making up stuff that doesn’t make sense…

by bross09 on Jan 15, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

The number 7 pick for Kolb? No thank you.

Quinn: 10 TDs and 9 INT; 66.8 career QB rating
Kolb: 4 TDs and 7 INT; 68.9 career QB rating

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 12, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, 4 of those interceptions were last season and when he only had one start and played sporadically. This year he started three games when McNabb was hurt and looked pretty good (741 yards, 65 comp%, 4 TD’s, 3 Int’s). I would take him; he’s looked much better than Quinn has any time this season.

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 12, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

On a perrenial playoff team with multiple weapons. Quinn had next to nothing to work with.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 12, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Ugh. Everyone thinks that every other NFL has everything that we don’t, but it’s just not the case. We have a better line than Philly, ya know. QB was the weakest point in this offense.

by danvail on Jan 12, 2010 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

possibly about the line…philly did have a good line..

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Quinn had coaches that didn’t know how to work the passing game. Running is arithmetic, skill, and effort. Passing is harder. I didn’t see much in the passing game that I liked from Daboll, besides the fact that he occasionally had Cribbs pass. I saw a lot of stuff that Philly ran that I liked.

Philly’s offense is very, very good. Don’t try to argue that ours is close to on their level.

by rufio on Jan 14, 2010 12:15 AM EST up reply actions  

straight up Kolb for Quinn I might do it…MIGHT…but the guy I do not feel will be worth the picks we would have to give up. he was a late second rounder and hasn’t proven anything significantly yet…anything more than our third rounder would just be ludicrous.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

It doesn’t matter when those INTs were, unless Kolb was playing with a significant injury. He looked flat out bad in some of those games. You know you can’t just take away INTs willy-nilly like that. A pick is a pick is a pick.

Quinn had pretty good stats last year, and look how that turned out.

I would be 1000x more confident about a healthy Bradford.

by rufio on Jan 14, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Well if I recall the game correctly, Kolb came in cold in the 2nd half against a Baltimore team that was playing lights out D and the Eagles were already way down to the Ravens. From what I recall, the rest of the team was pissed at Reid for benching McNabb in the first place, and it seems like the team had given up by half. I don’t know how much I blame Kolb for having horrible numbers in his first half of football given those circumstances.

He did look pretty good in limited opportunity this year.

by Roger Dorn on Jan 14, 2010 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not taking them away will-nilly, but I’m saying that he came in off the bench without much preparation and with hardly any playing experience, so a few interceptions aren’t a big deal. After all, look at how many excuses people make around here for Quinn — he played against a great defense, he was taken in and out of the lineup, he had bad playcalling, etc.

The point is that this season, after more experience and with a chance to play a couple games as a starter, he’s peformed much better (as you would expect). Now I’m certainly not saying that he’s certain to be a star because we don’t know that yet. But I think his performance this season in the games he started is a much better sample of his talent and abilities than a couple games last year when he played sporadically. I think if Quinn had played like that in a few games then most people here would be saying that he’s destined for stardom.

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 14, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Luckily we are paying some smart guys now to figure out if a guy like Kolb is good enough.

by Roger Dorn on Jan 14, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Isn’t this all about Kolb for #7 overall? Do you not want someone more certain to be a star than Kolb?

Maybe it’s me, but I don’t see him as the next Matt Schaub.

I wasn’t trying to say that Quinn was the better player than Kolb. I was not making excuses for Quinn’s play. The comparison I want to make is:
Quinn played in a terrible offense with terrible pass catchers around him this year and threw too many picks.
Kolb played against a good defense and was in and out of the lineup and threw picks.
Both of them threw those picks. Both of them are accountable for how they played. Just because Kolb is the one that is hot right now doesn’t mean he is worth our 1st rounder—or really even close.

The fact is that both have small sample sizes for their stats, both have been inconsistent, and both have less than 1st-round-worthy resumés.

I would probably play Kolb over Quinn in a game for my life tomorrow, but that doesn’t mean acquiring Kolb would be the right thing to do.

by rufio on Jan 15, 2010 2:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I never said that I’d trade Kolb for the #7 pick; I think someone else did but that wasn’t me. No, I would not do that because he certainly hasn’t proven himself yet. I said I’d give up two 2nd round picks for him if Holmgren likes what he sees of him on film and thinks he can continue to play like he did in this starts this season. That may be high, but I’d definitely give up our 2nd round pick this season and maybe another low pick for him. But not #7, I agree with that.

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 15, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I do agree quite a bit with this. Kolb wasn’t even a first rounder or had first round talent. that doesn’t mean much but I would only give up our 2nd and a later round pick at most for him. I do think kolb could be good. On this one, i would have to go with heckert over holmgren. heckert has seen him play more (and probably seen him in practice). heckert drafted him and has the best Idea out of just about anyone (except andy reid and morninghweg) of what kolb can do. with having heckert it is like having inside info that the rest of the league isn’t privy to.

by bross09 on Jan 15, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Kolb and McNabb will be free agents next year. I’m not so certain that getting Kolb this year for what we would have to give up is worth it. Especially if we have to resign for a big contract if he produces as well as we hope he does when we could just let him sit the bench again this year and then try to sign him next offseason if we still want him.

They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best

About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback

by Villeslgr on Jan 12, 2010 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Take that back Kolb is a free agent in 2011. McNabb will still be signed.

They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best

About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback

by Villeslgr on Jan 12, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions  

they are all signed through 2011…

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Eagles said that McNabb in QB next year, but it is early.

by holmes213 on Jan 12, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I doubt if they give up McNabb at this point. He had an amazing year and kolb isn’t sucking up money sitting on the bench.

by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 12, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

The future’s looking bright guys. Now let’s just have a good draft!

by emily522 on Jan 11, 2010 10:32 PM EST reply actions  

Rotoworld said BQ might miss OTAs with a lefranc(?) injury.

Holmgren always makes things seem right in the world. Very, very good PR speaker.

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 11, 2010 10:34 PM EST reply actions  

Lisfranc surgery.

It is a nasty injury. Dwight Freeney had it. Found an interesting read on-line about the injury.

by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 12, 2010 2:19 AM EST up reply actions  

He doesn’t need surgery, I thought?

by rufio on Jan 14, 2010 12:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah…I just read that too. this comment was I think before that came out (which was about a day ago)

by bross09 on Jan 14, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Does anyone think that the picture was taken while he was singing the “5 dollar footlong” song?

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 11, 2010 10:38 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

Rec for making me laugh.

by emily522 on Jan 11, 2010 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

 and low like Clark Griswald singing

That’s the Mississippi…the mighty Mississip…the Old Miss…the Old Man…Deep River, my home is over Jordan

They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best

About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback

by Villeslgr on Jan 11, 2010 11:47 PM EST up reply actions  

lol…i love those commercials…especially the sexual innuendos that go along with it and that the girls all look extremely excited (at least more than the guys).

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

This bit about Mangini grabbed my attention:

I should culminate with saying that he showed a willingness to work as a team player. I think he was thrust into a position where he had to accept a lot more responsibly than was fair, through no fault of his own.

Sounds like Holmgren believes Mangini is blameless in the Kokinis fiasco.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 11, 2010 11:04 PM EST reply actions  

He’s also ripping on Learner, of which I approve.

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 11, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t see that.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 11, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

That he was thrust into a position with a lot of responsibility that was not under his control.

Basically calling out Learner’s ineptitude.

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 12, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I see it as calling out Kokinis’ ineptitude. But we are probably both reading way too much into it.

fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com

by Ryan Kelsey on Jan 12, 2010 12:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Dunno, we know so little about good ole’ Kokinis it’s impossible to ascertain just what happened or who’s to blame.

"I don’t dance too much." --Mike Holmgren

by johnnyphoenix on Jan 12, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions  

This. You can analyze Holmgren’s statement here and maybe get something out of it, but we are clearly working in the dark to make sense of all this.

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 12, 2010 1:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Did anyone see/hear Josh Cribbs on the Scott Van Pelt show on ESPN this afternoon? He restated his desire to play in Cleveland so I think all the talk about demanding a trade was just posturing. They didn’t talk about the contract situation very much — most of the discussion was on the Browns season, the weekend playoff games and the success of MAC players in the NFL (I never realized how many Kent St. guys were in the league) — but they did touch on it at the end. But he did say that he hoped to be playing for Mangini next season and the team wanted him back.

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 11, 2010 11:12 PM EST reply actions  

KSU has the most active and starting players than any other MAC team.

Edelman, Cribbs, Elam, Harrison, and Gates are the only starters I think there are.

Notable retired football players – Lou Holtz, Nick Saban, Jack Lambert.

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 11, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Saban and Houltz were former coachs who got their start from KSU actually. Also add to that group Gary Pinkel and Dom Capers.

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 11, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I never realized there were so many notables.

by emily522 on Jan 11, 2010 11:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I wonder what makes and un-notable?

http://prideofcleveland.blogspot.com/

by Red-Right-88 on Jan 12, 2010 7:38 AM EST up reply actions  

leave that up to the wikipedia ppl. they decide what is notable and what isn’t.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 7:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Daniel Muir, a DT from the Colts, is also from Kent (and was mentioned by Cribbs). I’m not sure if he starts but he plays quite a bit judging from his stats.

It’s rather odd that Kent St. would have the most NFL players from MAC schools since they haven’t been particularly good at football over the past decade. Other MAC schools have won more often but they seem to turn out the most NFL players for some reason.

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 11, 2010 11:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, I didn’t include him because he doesn’t start but he is a starter capable player.

And this is the general conundrum. We have good players but it doesn’t really come together through the season.

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 11, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

good list…the MAC has a surpisingly good list of players in the NFL…ppl outside of the midwest where the MAC is based do not realize it.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

good list…the MAC has a surpisingly good list of players in the NFL…ppl outside of the midwest where the MAC is based do not realize it.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

good list…the MAC has a surpisingly good list of players in the NFL…ppl outside of the midwest where the MAC is based do not realize it.

by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 12, 2010 2:26 AM EST up reply actions  

wait…why did you type the same thing I did…because I typed it twice??? my computer was screwing up

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 2:50 AM EST up reply actions  

He’s just having some fun. Relax.

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 12, 2010 8:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I figured…I just wasn’t sure if he was actually messing with me…i don’t mine, but my internet was wierd late last night.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 9:12 AM EST up reply actions  

sometimes the internet tubes get clogged. pour some draino in it next time.

You are reading my signature.

by rolub on Jan 12, 2010 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah..or maybe just jiggle the handle and flush.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

My basic take on the Cribbs situation: whatever. I was considering writing a longer post on it, but the bottom line is I think it is all much ado about nothing.

We ain’t trading him. He ain’t sitting out for 3 years. He’ll play for the Browns in 2010.

Will he get a raise? Sure. But he’ll take whatever offer is on the table sometime around June 1.

fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com

by Ryan Kelsey on Jan 12, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with all of this now.

My childish crying has warn off.

Cribbs doesn’t have to balls to sit, nor play without fire. We won’t trade him, we’ll still change our offer, he’ll accept it before season’s start regardless of what he says now.

Cribbs has no leverage whatsoever.

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 12, 2010 12:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Good to see people are finally relaxing a little about Cribbs…we have a long way to go before we really need to start worrying big time about that.

"I don’t dance too much." --Mike Holmgren

by johnnyphoenix on Jan 12, 2010 12:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m still a little pissed about it myself, if more hopeful that it will all blow over.

I will say that “That take it or leave it stuff, I think that went out a long time ago. I’m not sure you ever say that.” was as much of a non-answer to the question of how the offer was presented as possible.

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 12, 2010 1:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, the take it or leave it, if it really happened that way, should NOT have happened…but I’m not crazy about the timing of Cribbs or his agents either…ah well.

"I don’t dance too much." --Mike Holmgren

by johnnyphoenix on Jan 12, 2010 2:48 AM EST up reply actions  

i tend to agree with holmgren, that “take it or leave it” isn’t done that much anymore. why would the team say that when maybe they could give him just a little more than they initially offered and satisfy him? being hard asses at this point wouldn’t make a lot of sense.

by Dawg Nuts on Jan 12, 2010 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

If a little more would satisfy him, why didn’t they just give it to him? Notice that Holmgren didn’t say they didn’t do it. He said, “I think that went out a long time ago.”

My boss: “I hear you’ve been goofing off and playing Halo at your desk all day.”

Me: “Does anyone really do that sort of thing any more? I mean, didn’t people get that message last year?” (as I quickly close Halo on my computer)

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 12, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

reasonable points, but maybe they were just trying simple negotiations. offer him 1.4, he complains, you say “you’re right josh, you are worth more, how about 2.1”, he says “okay, that’s more like it.” maybe they’ve always been prepared to give him 2.whatever, but offering him that upfront might have made him ask for more.

i know this is a huge oversimplification, just an idea. you’re just as likely to be right.

by Dawg Nuts on Jan 12, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I really hope you’re right!

I was just hoping Holmgren would say the whole ‘take it or leave it’ thing was a big mistake or a simple miscommunication, and make a show of pushing the reset button.

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 12, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah, it would be nice to just forget this ever happened and quietly givehim a reasonable pay raise. the fact that this has become an issue at all is bad news.

by Dawg Nuts on Jan 12, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

honestly, i say the browns continue to work with BQ next year and draft leFevour to bring him along next season learning the plays from the sidelines. i think bringing hasselbeck in would just be the wrong move and a waist of money.LeFevour has in my opinion as equal football readiness and smarts to play in the nfl as Bradford and Clausen do. I am starting to think that we may be in a position to get Haden with our first pick in the draft, although i think we should trade down for some extra picks and think about taking Hughes from T.C.U, he has a great ability to get to the qb and is quick off the ball, to have him on one side and Wimbeley on the other,plus Rodgers up the middle would instantly upgrade our defense. Some may not agree with me on this but i think we can find good secondary players in F.A.!

by findlaybrownslover on Jan 11, 2010 11:16 PM EST reply actions  

I disagree somewhat. I think Lefevour is good but he will need at least a couple years as a backup.

I do like haden although I would like to see him gain weight and become a safety.

Hughes is good but IMO, our inside LBs need more work than on the outside. You said u do like wimbley, but I also really like roth and think he can really produce. I see our 2 rush ends, wimbley and roth, contributing about 15 or so sacks combined nex year if they both r healthy all 16 games…that isn’t a bad number of sacks.

I also would rather have rogers on the end and draft a guy in the later rounds as a NT…a big guy. I like rubin and at NT, roger’s skills at pass rushing are underutilized…

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 12:18 AM EST up reply actions  

LeFevour a product of the system? They ran every play from the shotgun. Might not be a bad thing, but thinking Couch, all the TTech and Houston QB’s here.

http://prideofcleveland.blogspot.com/

by Red-Right-88 on Jan 12, 2010 7:40 AM EST up reply actions  

But don't go down the couch road. he only failed because he might have had one of the worst supporting casts in history. he also developed injuries probably from being sacked 60 times a year...

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 7:59 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s why you can’t just look at raw stats, especially yardage and TDs.. It doesn’t matter what system a guy plays in: is he accurate? How good is his arm? Can he make reads?

People invest way too much in the “system QB” stuff, IMO.

by rufio on Jan 14, 2010 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, here are LeFevour’s stats at CMU:

Freshman:
3031 yards, 63.7%, 7.81 Y/A, 26 TD, 10 INT

Sophomore:
3652 yards, 65.4%, 6.73 Y/A, 27 TD, 13 INT

Junior (missed 2 games):
2784 yards, 66.8%, 7.4 Y/A, 21 TD, 6 INT

Senior:
3428 yards, 69.7%, 7.54 Y/A, 28 TD, 7 INT

Seems like he has good accuracy and doesn’t turn the ball over much.

by emily522 on Jan 14, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah. that’s what I’ve noticed.

I watched him play and he wasn’t overly impressive…I look at the stat sheet and he had over 260 yards. mostly b/c they passed it 40 times. I dunno how he will function outside of the spread but he does have good accuracy.

by bross09 on Jan 14, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the yardage is the stat you want to throw out because of a system. The TD:INT ratios and completion%s are somewhat valuable, and a good part of his resumé.

You gotta watch tape (and probably a lot of it) to figure out his reads and how quickly he is making them. His arm looked strong enough in the bowl game.

by rufio on Jan 15, 2010 2:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree. I have seen him play and he is an efficient QB but he also might get a lot from the system. he is definitely accurate and a good leader but he has never played under center. with that said, my opinion of watching him play is he has the accuracy and poise to be an NFL QB eventually but not right away. if he sits for a year or two and then plays, he can be an effective QB

by bross09 on Jan 15, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Jeez, can we not turn every post into a draft thread?

fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com

by Ryan Kelsey on Jan 12, 2010 12:19 AM EST up reply actions  

My thoughts exactly.

Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, Heart! By your powers combined he is BUCKEYE BRAD!

Now go BB! Mod like you’ve never modded before!

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 12, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow . . . I don’t know if I can handle all those powers.

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 12, 2010 9:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Captain Planet…absolutely amazing.

by Uriah33 on Jan 12, 2010 12:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

This is what happens with a shitty team like the browns (no disrespect…i still love ya brownies). when the season ends everyone looks towards the draft… I am fine talking about holmgren’s love for the 5 dollar footlong.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Hah! I must admit I was thinking the same thing. That’s just me, though….

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 12, 2010 1:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Andy thought the world of Tom. I think they worked hand in hand, but clearly Tom set up the board, ran the personnel side of that.

This makes me so freaking happy. The Eagles always seem to make smart moves on draft day. I have always liked how they address both lines in every draft. Heckert may have not made the pick, but he made the board. Awesome.

It wasn’t his call in Philly, but the Eagles have made only 1 first round draft pick the past three seasons. The reason I mention this is that 2/3rds of this teams brain trust (Mangini and Heckert) comes from teams that have shown a pattern of trading down. It worked out great last season (as I stare at my Alex Mack poster). I can’t wipe the smile off my face.

He[Cribbs] has got three years left on his current contract. It’s almost unprecedented to change that dramatically in this business.

He made this exact comment in his first presser. I don’t think this front office is going to offer Josh more than 2 mil a season. The three years left is just too much leverage. JC is going to have to break in this stalemate.

by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 12, 2010 2:38 AM EST reply actions  

By the way, I haven’t seen a nickname for our GM/HC combo.

Let’s keep it that way.

by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 12, 2010 2:38 AM EST up reply actions  

He-Man
HeckMan
Manert
Heckgini
QueenLatifahRod

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 12, 2010 2:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I like QueenLatifahRod.

Probably the only Cleveland Browns fan in all of Sydney, NSW.

by skipkirk on Jan 12, 2010 5:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m partial to Manert.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 12, 2010 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Manert strikes me as the best as well. Plus, if they end up being slow and clueless, we can start calling them Manertia.

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 12, 2010 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Excellent.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 12, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know why, but Heckgini made me laugh.

You are reading my signature.

by rolub on Jan 12, 2010 9:32 AM EST up reply actions  

that just sounds ugly…i can’t imagine if they actually morphed into one (I have never seen heckert…going on an internet search for a pic

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

He-Man and the masters of the universe

I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.

by notthatnoise on Jan 12, 2010 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Don’t we also have to include our “czar” in that combo? How about HolmHeckMan?

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 12, 2010 9:03 AM EST up reply actions  

HoHeini

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 12, 2010 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

this gets my vote. sure to inspire juvenile giggles from all of us.

by Dawg Nuts on Jan 12, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

agreed about philly’s decision making.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 2:51 AM EST up reply actions  

cribbs

i’ve been telling people to just wait till holmgren got his people in place then he would do cribbs right,it sounds to me like that’s exactly what’s he’s doing. CRIBBS AINT GOING NO WHERE & HE’LL PLAY IN 2010. mark my words

by brownie76 on Jan 12, 2010 9:42 AM EST reply actions  

it sounds to me like that’s exactly what’s he’s doing

Man, I don’t know how you got this out of what he said here….

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 12, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

exactly wut i was thinking

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Something that stuck out to me from the press conference was that Holmgren openly discussed Quinn’s lisfranc sprain.

Mangini wouldn’t have done that unless he had to. He may have mentioned the injury but then would have said "I respect that you have questions but I don’t have anything more to say at this time. " That was the kind of stuff that made the media turn on him.

by Bumblyjack on Jan 12, 2010 10:56 AM EST reply actions  

Agreed, although there might be a slight difference in the sense that everyone is usually more open right after your team’s NFL season is over.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by Chris Pokorny on Jan 12, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah…its easy to be open after a 5-11 season, disappointment, and a regime change.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha, Mangini probably started in a cold sweat when he heard Holmgren disclose the injury.

by Roger Dorn on Jan 12, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Instead of adding a new thread:

Heckert presser live now.

You are reading my signature.

by rolub on Jan 12, 2010 2:14 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks for the link.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 12, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

what whats Heckert’s background?

by The Licensed Pessimist on Jan 12, 2010 2:35 PM EST reply actions  

nice

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 12, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

all of this sounds like general talk that sounds nice…there is really nothing in what they are saying…they are just nice words.

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 2:39 PM EST reply actions  

About what you’d expect, no?

by Roger Dorn on Jan 12, 2010 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah…about what I expected…general terms, positive tone…etc…

by bross09 on Jan 12, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

heckert was huge reason vick went to philly…vick will be playing in clev next season count on it

by Cavs4 life on Jan 12, 2010 5:29 PM EST reply actions  

I’ll buy my #7 Browns Jersey now, and you’ll refund me when he doesn’t come?

by Nat on Jan 12, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d go root for Buffalo.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 12, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Philly has an option of Vick for next season, so if they want to keep him then they can.

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 12, 2010 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

that’s not happening. sorry.

by Dawg Nuts on Jan 13, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

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