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Tom Heckert 1/12 Presser: Introduction to Team, Working With Mangini and Holmgren

New Cleveland Browns general manager Tom Heckert met with the media for the first time today to introduce himself and answer questions. Joining him were team president Mike Holmgren and head coach Eric Mangini, demonstrating how there will be a lot more heads involved in the decision-making process this year. Here are some of the highlights from the press conference...

Link to Full Transcript | Link to Audio of Press Conference

The Decision Making Process

Mike Holmgren

“Before we start the questions I just want to say a couple things. First of all, there’s a lot of curiosity as to responsibility. You’re ready to ask questions right now, I know, about who’s to do what, who’s going to make the call on draft day, [who’s in charge of] the 53-man roster, [who is going to negotiate with] Josh Cribbs. I know you’re dying, you’re ready. Just relax. Just relax for just a second here (joking).

What we’re going to do is, and I mean this, it was my hope and it will continue to be my hope that the decisions this organization makes going forward will be handled by these fellas right here. I trust them. I believe in them. They’re good football people. Responsibilities will be defined. They will be defined, but right now we’re working that stuff out. At the end of the day, however, if we pick a player in the draft, if we make a decision on releasing a player, whatever it happens to be, it’s a decision that has been thought through, come to a conclusion by a lot of discussion, maybe some arguing, but at the end of the day that decision is not a Mike Holmgren decision, an Eric Mangini decision, Tom Heckert decision. It’s a Cleveland Browns decision and I want you to believe that and that’s how we’re going to do business from now on. Hopefully then we make enough good decisions to get it going in the right direction. I know now you won’t have to ask any of those questions that you were going to ask (joking)."

Thoughts: I still don't have a clue what George Kokinis contributed as our general manager, and soon his name will be long be forgotten. It'd really be refreshing to see all three individuals -- Mangini, Holmgren, and Heckert -- continue letting their voices be heard and letting everyone know that they are working together to make the best possible decisions for this team.

Thinking Ahead to the Draft

Tom Heckert

(On how excited he is about having 11 draft picks and his draft philosophy)- “First the picks, the more picks you can get, the better we are, so that’s great. The philosophy is, everybody says ‘the best available player,’ and that’s the ideal situation, is to not have a need. Obviously, Eric and Mike and I will get together and we’ll figure out what our needs are and see if we can solve something in free agency. That’s the best case scenario, is to get some of your needs done in free agency and then worry about the draft and then take the best available player, because that’s the last thing you want to do, is force a pick in there just because of a need. That’s our goal, is to hopefully build this team where you don’t have to do that. You can draft the best player that’s available and then you don’t have to worry about reaching for somebody.”

(On how much of the draft he did in Philadelphia and how it will work here)- “It’s going to be very similar to that. I’m going to do the same thing, I’ll get the scouts in and I’ll set the board along with Mike and Eric. It’s like what Mike and Eric said, ‘It’s going to be a Cleveland Browns’ decision.’ I’ve had this question asked over the last 10 years, it’s never going to be one person saying, ‘I want this guy,’ when five other people don’t want that guy. That just never works. We’ll come up with a player that we think fits our scheme, our organization and that’s the kind of guy we’ll take.”

(On if someone will spend more time on the draft than the others)- “That’s my job, to watch everybody, set the board and give Eric and Mike, and try to weed it out a little bit. To have them look at the players we are going to take or the guys that we feel, as scouts, are good for this football team.”

(On if he brought scouting and draft information he had done in Philadelphia with him here)- "The stuff that I've already done this year? I've got to be careful about that (joking). Yes, I have the stuff that I've done this year. I have that with me."

Thoughts: Mangini's trades last year certainly set up the new staff with the ability to find a lot of new talent and even take some risks on some players (or trade up at certain spots). Heckert has already been preparing, so there's no reason to believe our staff will be behind in the draft department.

More on Quinn's Injury and QB Situation

Mike Holmgren

(On what he has concluded about Brady Quinn)- “Brady hurt himself of course and I was asked yesterday, about [it]. He saw his doctor in Carolina and then he will be in town next week to see our docs here. I have not studied him enough to make a good judgment on that. I know quarterbacks pretty well and I want to meet him in person and talk to him. I haven’t done that since the combine, when he was coming out. I will say this, for a team to do well, the quarterback has to play well.

How they won games at the end it wasn’t the quarterback but the ratio of runs to passes in the last four weeks of the season were remarkable. Normally you can’t win that way. You can have the greatest running game in the world and play good defense, but if you only throw six balls a game you are not going to win. We’ve got to look at that. I want whoever is playing quarterback for the Cleveland Browns to be the right guy, and I want him to succeed because when he succeeds the team will do well. I’m going to reserve judgment on that.”

(On if Quinn’s doctors concluded that he does not need surgery)- “That is my understanding, yes. Now again, he has another meeting next week.”

Thoughts: It should be a given that Brady Quinn has more upside than Derek Anderson, but Quinn didn't do anything to show the new staff he should be our starting quarterback next year. I'd like to see him remain under center and focus on other areas, but perhaps we sign a veteran free agent in an attempt to compete right away. It worked with Kerry Collins for at least one season in Tennessee, although Quinn's probably past the time to 'sit and develop.'

Shifting Offensive and Defensive Strategies

Eric Mangini

(On if he sees his offensive and defensive philosophies changing with input from Holmgren and Heckert)- “I think one of the most important parts of my philosophy is flexibility. That’s something that I know we’ve talked a lot about in here and that’s what has driven the types of players that I’ve always liked coaching and looked for. You want to be able to take new ideas and fuse those ideas into, whether it’s the playbook or game planning and that becomes the Browns’ identity. There are a lot of different things that you can do and there is a lot of studying that you do in the offseason as to how you can improve the system.

What is unique for us and really good for us is to be able to pick Mike’s [Holmgren] brain and build on the things that he has done very well for a long time. I’ve talked a little bit about Bill Callahan in the past and Brian Schottenheimer, and the different groups that they came from and the ideas they brought in, and that became the Jets’ philosophy. It was a fusion of all those different ideas. If you don’t look into those things and try to improve every year then you stop growing and you won’t have that opportunity. This is a good situation.”

(On if he will keep his staff intact)- “Right now everybody’s in place. Tom Myslinski, the strength coach, his contract is up and we won’t be renewing that. Besides that, I don’t foresee anything in the immediate future, but I’d be open to looking at things and seeing what other opportunities are out there.”

Thoughts: We shall see (regarding the coaching staff).

Cribbs Going Public on Contract Situation

Mike Holmgren

(On if he is okay with Joshua Cribbs going public with his contract talks)- “I’d rather that not happen. We’ve been at this a long time haven’t we? Is anyone surprised? No. That’s just the way it is. I said what I said, I’ll say it again. We as an organization will not negotiate in the press. We will not do that, but, I love Josh Cribbs and I’m hopeful things work out and everyone is happy at the end of the day. It is what it is as they say, and so, we’re going to keep trying though and hopefully they keep trying. We want him to be here and we want him to be successful because he is a good player for us.”

Thoughts: The positive news of keeping Mangini and getting Heckert on board have calmed the Cribbs frustration temporarily, but it'll be a hot topic as the date to begin trading a player approaches.

What Does Holmgren Think of Jerome Harrison?

Mike Holmgren

(On his thoughts on Jerome Harrison)- “I love him as a player. I thought what he did at the end of the season was remarkable. The fact that it appeared as though the teams that Cleveland played knew that’s kind of how it was going to go and still they got it done. 286 yards, is that what he had in that one game? That’s a lot of yards. Again, that’s a decision. I know Eric was happy with him, who wouldn’t be? Someone had to step up and get that done. [With the] weather, when it gets cold and you can have a good running game and you can control the clock, all those things, it’s nice to have a guy you can give the ball to like that. I like him a lot, clearly.”

Thoughts: We've got our starting running back for the 2010 campaign. Besides being able to hit the hole quicker than Jamal Lewis, Harrison can thank FB Lawrence Vickers and the offensive line for that.

A Quickie on Donte Stallworth

(On if they have made any final decisions on Donte’ Stallworth yet)- “Not yet, Tony (Grossi), not yet, but soon we will. We will let you know what’s going on, but not today.”

Thoughts: This will be an interesting one. I think I'd be willing to accept Stallworth back, and he would probably move right into the starting lineup (although I still prefer him as a 3rd/4th receiver). It might be a moot point down the road since he never seems to stay healthy anyway.

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The more I think about it, the more I think that Brady Quinn probably won’t end up panning out. He’s been here for what? Three years? Next year will be his 4th in Cleveland. I mean, if he’s competing against QBs like Romo or Hasselback or McNabb or anyone like that then yeah, it makes sense that he wouldn’t start. But as it stands, he was behind Charlie Frye and DA in year 1, he was behind DA in year 2, and he started behind DA this year and really didn’t do anything spectacular when he finally got his starts. I think if he was going to be the QB of the future, he’s had plenty of time to take control.

Normally, I’d be all about giving him another year because I think he can be a decent QB. But I think with Holmgren coming in, Quinn’s days are probably numbered here. I think Holmgren is going to want a great QB and I don’t think Quinn has what it takes. Bummer, I really like the guy.

by shep615 on Jan 13, 2010 12:24 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think this is the great unanswered question for the 2010 Cleveland Browns: what the f do we do at QB?

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think this is the great unanswered question for the 2010 Cleveland Browns every single year: what the f do we do at QB?

by emily522 on Jan 13, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What a confusing comment… I tried to simultaneously frown and smile at the same time.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Isn’t that a sad-but-true statement!

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 14, 2010 9:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No way! Toni Grossi answered it today in the Plain Dealer! Due to a combination of how the big 3 talked in this press conference, it’s quite obvious that Holmgren and Heckert think we need an upgrade at quarterback. And due to the jobs Heckert and Holmgren have had in the past, that means our 3 options are Hasselback, McNabb, and Kolb. So we have it narrowed down to 3, with fairly hog certainty.

… Although I kinda get the impression that Toni Grossi is full of shit, most of the time. So maybe we still don’t know what the f to do at QB.

by shep615 on Jan 14, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not buying that. McNabb?

by Western Reserve on Jan 14, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, he’s on a one year deal and he’ll turn 34 next season… I guess depending on how Reid feels about Kolb vs McNabb he might be willing to trade him. Still, though, I highly doubt it.

by danvail on Jan 14, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It may be likely that they keep both of them. Then Kolbs get the job when McNabb retires.

by emily522 on Jan 14, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That makes good sense, assuming Kolb can get it done for them.

I really do hope our new masterminds solve our QB issue next season. Even if they do though, we’re still going into another year saying, “What the f are we going to do at QB?”

I look forward to the day when we’re going into an offseason saying, “OK, now that we’ve solved the QB issue, what are we going to do about…..?” instead!

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 14, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I look forward to the day when we’re going into an offseason saying, "OK, now that we’ve solved the QB issue, what are we going to do about…..?" instead!

Ugh, don’t well all?

by emily522 on Jan 14, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think they’ll both be back. If I’m Andy Reid then I probably let Kolb go and draft someone later in the draft. I think McNabb still has probably 2-3 years left in him, and I’d think he probably keeps the starting position as long as he’s in Philly. So… in 2-3 years Kolb will be 27-28. If I’m Andy Reid then I want my franchise quarterback to be a bit younger when he takes over.

Could be wrong, though. That’s just what I would do.

by shep615 on Jan 14, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Plus Kolb might be looking to start by then.

by danvail on Jan 14, 2010 5:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know though, they could view it as an Aaron Rodgers situation. The guy had plenty of time to learn and was awesome from the get go when he became full time starter.

by Roger Dorn on Jan 14, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yup, that’s what I was thinking.

by emily522 on Jan 14, 2010 5:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was about to say when reading this…“wait, but isn’t grossi full of shit?” thank you for acknowledging that…

by bross09 on Jan 14, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think this is the great unanswered question for the 2010 Cleveland Browns: what the f do we do? at QB?

Fixed.

"I don’t dance too much." --Mike Holmgren

by johnnyphoenix on Jan 13, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

2010? We probably look to free agency for a veteran ‘stop-gap’ QB. If Quinn pans out great…then we have a solid, veteran backup. If he doesn’t, well, we have a solid ‘stop the bleeding’ QB for the remainder of the season and address the QB issue as our number 1 priority in the next offseason (providing we even have a 2011 season).

"I don’t dance too much." --Mike Holmgren

by johnnyphoenix on Jan 14, 2010 4:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s my thought as well. DA is history, we have no reason to think Ratliff will be a credible starter (sorry moon), and BQ is amazingly still an unknown quantity. I’d vote to give BQ the chance, but I feel like we need that credible fallback position.

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 14, 2010 9:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

and there are enough FAs out there with starting experience who could be solid (hasselbeck, orton, tavaris jackson, jason campbell, pennington, carr if he can return to end of texans career form)

by bross09 on Jan 14, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

shep…just saying in quinns defense.

year one…He was a rookie and although these last couple years, many rookies start right away, it isn’t always smart…couch wasn’t supposed to start right away…He also never had a shot at winning the job b/c he got to camp late. He never got a real shot at moving up b/c DA had that great season

year two…now that was crennel being an idiot. yes, DA was coming off of a good yr, but he waited way to long to pull DA after he was pitiful…then BQ got a freak injury.

year 3…He never got a chemistry going with the offense b/c mangini’s idea of not announcing the starter (which was criticized by just about every expert) hurt the chemistry b/c neither QB had any with the offense. he was pulled way too early after playing some of the best Defenses in the league…Again, mangini kept DA in too long (probably to keep BQ from having his snap bonus) and then when quinn got in, he was better. granted, the last couple of games he wasn’t great, but we were relying on the run game and never got the pass established. we also had 3 games at home out of our last 4 and it is hard for most QBs to play well in cleveland in december…he didn’t look good in KC either, but he still could get another shot.

He has only started and finished about half a season (a few half-games). he hasn’t truly gotten a chance. most young QBs do not really start to show you something sometimes, until about start 10-12…

DA was the exception to that…flourished early on but flamed out…

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agree with some of this; however, i think quinn was one of the big reasons we relied on the run so much at the end, not a victim of it. if quinn would have shown that he could establish the pass, we would have done it.

by Dawg Nuts on Jan 13, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed. At the same time, some of the teams we faced were elite pass defenses. Cincy was number 6, Denver was top 5, Oakland, baltimore, and pittsburgh were all in the top 10. the passing defenses he faced were in general, better than the rushing defenses too. even the chargers (who in fact were the 11th pass defense). we faced in general (especially when quinn played) very good passing defenses, but not great running defenses.

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But I think with Holmgren coming in, Quinn’s days are probably numbered here. I think Holmgren is going to want a great QB and I don’t think Quinn has what it takes. Bummer, I really like the guy.

Yeah, it sucks. I was so pumped when we drafted him and then… disappointment. Well, that’s the life of a Browns fan, haha. I really like Brady too. He seems like a nice, classy guy. But I also think his days are numbered. I think I would be okay with giving him one more season, though. If he doesn’t work out, then we could draft Locker possibly next year. I just hope we don’t take Jevan Snead like I’m seeing on some mocks!

by emily522 on Jan 13, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I always do that. It’s meant to be a block quote.

by emily522 on Jan 13, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’d personally like to grab Ryan Mallet next year, but now i’m talking two drafts ahead, which is exponentially dumber than trying to predict one draft at a time.

I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.

by notthatnoise on Jan 13, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I like mallet too. I would have taken him as the first QB maybe…coming out he would have been the third best QB (even with locker) IMO…but I wouldve drafted him high b/c of upside. if he improves next yr…i WANT him…i would even trade up if I have to. Imagine if joe flacco played at an elite college under an excellent coach…that is mallett IMO.

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oh but it’s funner

They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best

About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback

by Villeslgr on Jan 13, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you can be even crazier with your predictions

I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.

by notthatnoise on Jan 13, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

“And with the ____ pick in the 2011 draft, the Browns select… LeBron James!!!” crowd goes wild

by shep615 on Jan 13, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The more I think about it, the more I think that Brady Quinn probably won’t end up panning out. He’s been here for what? Three years? Next year will be his 4th in Cleveland.

I completely agree, unfortunately.

I would like nothing more than for him to end up working out but quite honestly I have not seen anything other than a few brief ‘flashes’ of respectability. Of course, he has gotten very little help from his supporting cast, but I’m looking more at his own mechanics and decision making first and foremost. Anyways, I’ll be hoping for the best preparing for the worst, and the reason I still have a modicum of hope for him is that he keeps the turnovers down.

"I don’t dance too much." --Mike Holmgren

by johnnyphoenix on Jan 13, 2010 2:57 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

He’ll get an honest shot with Holmgren though….I am certain of that, and that way at least we can move on with a clear conscience (something we probably shouldn’t have in how we handled Couch).

Let’s pick up a solid veteran for the time being to help mentor him, and who can take over the reigns (should he continue to struggle) until we find a long-term QB solution. I just really don’t want to see us build a pretty damn good team with our lack of QB our Achilles heel.

"I don’t dance too much." --Mike Holmgren

by johnnyphoenix on Jan 13, 2010 3:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It’s a tough situation. I think most coaches and FOs believe, I think rightfully, that QB is the most impactful position on the field. Right now, though, there aren’t a lot of great options for 2010. I wish there were better options in the draft, really, but I don’t see it (at least not yet). I wish there were a Drew Brees in free agency, but there most certainly isn’t.

Maybe there is a Matt Schaub-like situation in Philly. That’s my biggest hope right now, but it’s a long shot. Heckert might be able to work it, though.

I could see us picking up an old vet and letting him fight it out with Quinn. I’m not excited about that option, really, because it would probably mean TWO more QB changes in the near future.

I’m so damn tired of waiting for our Quarterback. We haven’t had him since we broke Couch.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I just feel that kolb will cost too much…if the cost is relatively cheap (like quinn and a later round pick) I might consider it….yes Kolb had a 89 QB rating…in 2 starts…and one of them (where his QB rating was 121) he was playing KC…a horrible team. If you take BQs first 2 healthy starts of his career (buffalo in ’08 he was injured) his QB rating is an 89, and the defenses were maybe slightly better…

It is way to early to tell for Kolb…

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s why you don’t trust a small amount of game tape but the opinions of Holmgren and Heckert.

Also, even if Kolb cost the #7 pick, we would win. We could start him, evaluate him on a year’s work, and go from there. Meanwhile you haven’t given him a $20M bonus, which is likely what taking a Clausen at that pick would require. Also, you don’t waste 2-3 years waffling on whether or not the draftee has had a fair shake.

Worst case scenario: Kolb for the #7. He sucks. We suck. You draft again next year around the same spot, and maybe there are better options at QB then. One year turnaround.

Best case scenario: Kolb is good. We have a QB we can build around. We pay him in 2011.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think kolb is worth the #7 pick…he at MOST is worth our 2nd round pick and probably not even that.

When guys do not play, they end up dropping in value, even when playing backup to McNabb. Quinn probably wouldn’t have netted us more than a mid 2nd rounder last year and has not only sat on the bench the same amount of time as kolb, but played about as much as kolb has played right now. he was also drafted about 15 spots higher. Kolb is worth giving up one of our third rounders IMO at BEST and compete against Quinn. he was a system QB in the NFL and had 2 starts only in a hybrid offense (West Coast with somewhat of a vertical passing game) with very skilled receivers.

i dunno how you are so high on kolb. his first 2 starts mirror Quinn’s first 2 healthy starts.

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i dunno how you are so high on kolb. his first 2 starts mirror Quinn’s first 2 healthy starts.

Like I said, I am not judging based on a small sample size of stats. Also, I’m not necessarily big on Kolb. If Heckert and Holmgren, however, were to decide he’s worth the #7 pick and pull a trade, I’d be ecstatic. I trust their judgement on QBs, especially one that Heckert has been monitoring for years.

When guys do not play, they end up dropping in value,

Like Schaub?

I don’t think kolb is worth the #7 pick…he at MOST is worth our 2nd round pick and probably not even that.

The money isn’t so bad at #7, but you have to realize that the old paradigm that the #1 overall pick is necessarily the best simply doesn’t apply in a the NFL as it stands. A $30M bonus before you ever get to see a player take an NFL down drastically affects the relative value of a pick. This does come into play at the #7 pick as well. The money you have to tie up for a rookie devalues that pick. Therefore, the difference in value between our first and second isn’t as large as it should be or as you seem to imply.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I do agree with the fact that the difference in price is there. I am not talking price, I am talking about value. the difference in value (from player projections) in the draft between the two picks is about the difference btwn Joe Haden (or Clausen) and Golden Tate (or OT anthony davis or Kyle Wilson).

I understand schaub and I am not saying Kolb will be that good. If heckert has seen something in practice I woudln’t mind that much taking him for our second (trade) I just do not want to give up a number 7 pick for a 2nd round guy with limited experience in the NFL who was considered a system guy in college (case keenum who isn’t projected high b/c of a lack of skills put up good numbers in houston too).

I do trust the judgement of Heckert b/c of his relationship with kolb, however I would NEVER be ecstatic about trading away our 7th overall pick for an unproven guy. Not that i wouldn’t completely hate it, i would just say “ehhh”

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would NEVER be ecstatic about trading away our 7th overall pick for an unproven guy. Not that i wouldn’t completely hate it, i would just say "ehhh"

We’ll just have to agree to disagree here. If our GM believes he’s found our QB of the future and says A) he can start right away and B) we won’t have to give him years of the benefit of the doubt and C) we don’t even have to pay him much in the first year and D) it will cost us one 1st round pick… well then I’m just going to be pumped.

I would NEVER be ecstatic about trading away our 7th overall pick for an unproven guy. Not that i wouldn’t completely hate it, i would just say "ehhh"

You can’t look at projected player VALUE without looking at price. Without price, you’re looking at skill in a vacuum, which isn’t what NFL teams do.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess we disagree…never said I would protest, but I wouldn’t jump for joy

yes…not saying he isn’t valuable…just still unproven…

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I just don’t like Kolb. I didn’t like him in the draft, and I wasn’t in love with what I saw from him when he played in the NFL. 7th pick = not worth it.

by rufio on Jan 13, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve liked what I’ve seen of him, but admit it’s a small sample.

by danvail on Jan 14, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t feel he ever really got an honest shot.

year one DA was great.

Year 2, crennel sabatoged it for him by deciding to play him too late…and he had that freak injury

year 3 Mangini pulled him 2 early after 2+ unimpressive games against elite Defenses. He got back in too late (probably b/c of the snap bonus) and performed okay at times…he also played a lot in the cold (steelers game…)

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

“Unimpressive” is being kind to the quarterbacking that was displayed in those two games.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

actually he looked pretty good against Minnesota…but he didn’t perform that great against denver’s D which was playing better then, but was still, third in the league against the pass…baltimore also had a great D…and he struggled in his first start back against them…while cincy imploded the last few games, their passing D when we played them the 2nd time was still a top 5 D.

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

actually he looked pretty good against Minnesota…

You mean he looked average against a below average passing defense.

Regardless, not too many people have expressed concern over Quinn because of his stats. Personally, I’ve expressed concern over his accuracy, which at this stage in his career is unlikely to improve considerably.

I don’t think he’s terrible, and I think he could have some good years in him down the road, but I don’t see him as the Browns QB for the next ten years.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Minnesota is about average…

Kolb torched a bottom 10 defense in both running and passing (KC) and was average against a bad passing defense in NO.

The point is, the jury is definitely still out on kolb. 2 pretty good starts against bottom 10 passing Ds does not a star QB make. He could be good, yes, but like Quinn, the jury is still out on Kolb.

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

MIN ranked 22nd in passing defense efficiency according to the opponent adjusted stat at FO.

KC was 21st, and NO was 9th. So, no, your point does not stand.

Further, I’m not taking a hard stance on Kolb’s value.

Finally, I am, however, taking a hard stance on Quinn’s value, which I find relatively low due to his accuracy issues which I don’t believe will improve much.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I saw NO as 25th on nfl.com

I dunno what the FO means or where you got these stats…I would just like to see it.

I also said (which does stand) that Quinn did play a lot of good Ds and who knows about kolb…Quinn put up similar numbers in his first 2 healthy starts against similarly ranked defenses.

My point is that the jury is out on both and I don’t believe we have enough info to officially close the book on quinn and we do not have enough info to judge kolb’s value (although heckert probably does).

whatever happens, it doesn’t make sense to trade a first rounder away for a second rounder with insignificant playing time over the course of 3 years on the bench.

you seem to comparing it to the schaub trade, which was considered risky at the time but did end up panning out (because he did have andre johnson to pass too…). schaub did have more experience…That trade was also considered steep b/c it was a current 2nd rounder, the next yrs 2nd rounder (which ended up about 15) and moving up 2 places in the first

the actual value of a 7th (but I do not know for certain) is more than moving from the 10th to the 8th, the 42nd pik and about the 47th pick the next year…this is just what I assume the value of a 7th is. Either way, don’t get me wrong. I do like kolb but I would not say he is guarenteed to be a great player.

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

FootballOutsiders.com

They use some fairly complicated formulas to level the playing field and provide informative stats. Other stats, like total pass yards against, are stupid stats to look at. They offer blind looks at totals without any regards to quality of opponent, time spent on the field, etc.. These stats attempt to account for that type of variable.

we do not have enough info to judge kolb’s value (although heckert probably does).

Again, all I’m saying is if we end up trading for Kolb, even at the cost of the #7 (which if I had to guess is higher than he would cost), then I’ll be happy. Not because of my judgement of Kolb, but because of our FO’s appraisal.

the actual value of a 7th (but I do not know for certain) is more than moving from the 10th to the 8th, the 42nd pik and about the 47th pick the next year

Maybe, according to some obsolete chart, but again that’s not the point. I’m not debating Schaub vs. Kolb.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree I would have confidence in our FO.

I am just saying that first of all, he is not like peyton manning or something…second of all, he is not the only quarterback and is not guarenteed to even be a good starter…

I don’t mind taking him, just saying for the 7th pick, i wouln’t do it.

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

he is not the only quarterback and is not guarenteed to even be a good starter…

Come up with an option that is a guaranteed good starter and I’ll listen.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Kyle orton is a FA

so is Tavaris Jackson (who was not horrible as a starter, is much more mobile than the immobile kolb, and spent a year holding the clipboard for favre)

David Carr was not a horrible starter when he improved. He had an 81 QB rating over his last 3 yrs. He also didn’t have a great supporting cast and was in a good division…I would honestly love carr. he has looked good in backup duty

Hasselbeck was decent enough this yr since he was healthy

Jason Campbell. He gets tons of criticism but the last 2 years he has been very solid (this yr, about as good of a QB rating kolb had in those 2 games). he is a good starter

If pennington can recuperate from injuries, he is at least a good starter.

All of these guys are free agents and have shown they can be good starters in the league. some have question marks (pennington with injury, tavaris with inconsistency some) but all have less questions IMO than kolb.

I would honestly love carr…

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Carr doesn’t even like playing football. His last significant action came in Carolina, where he sucked something fierce. He was worse in Houston. Looking good in two games of backup duty does not mean you’re a guaranteed good starter.

Hasselbeck was decent in 2007, but has been poor the last two years. Certainly not a guaranteed good starter. Also not a long term solution.

Campbell was below average this year, solid last year. Not that I’d hate to add him, but I don’t think he’s anything close to guaranteed good.

Pennington could be good for us if we held onto Quinn and drafted a QB with upside fairly early.

Jackson isn’t as god awful as most think, but I’m not sure he’ll be available. MIN should try to keep him.

Orton has been a surprise in Denver, but so much so that I’d be shocked if he became a FA.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn’t hear car didn’t like to play football. I was just pointing out that last time he got major time on a halfway decent team (not the panthers) he did good. I guess I skipped over those years but he still was consistently good for 3 yrs…something that CANNOT be said about kolb.

I know hasselback is not a long term solution.
There were a lot of injuries on that team…especially on the O-Line. Walter pace was on IR, they had 2 more players on IR, 2 more guys missed a few games starting due to injury, and pace’s replacement missed a few games so their 3rd string LT had to play a few games. nate burleson missed time and their running game was horrible. IMO, the supporting cast was not that much better then the browns (and he was also injured).

Like pennington, hasselbeck could be a good option this year when healthy

Campbell not only didn’t look horrible but got better in just about every stat category. better comp% (almost 65) more yards per attempt, more touchdowns, but more fumbles and interceptions. as a QB he looked better…overall, he might have looked slightly worse b/c of the fumbles which were mostly fumbled snaps). he did have better receivers but a much worse O-Line (which is their weakness in washington, and their center is not that good).

The point is, just getting a guy b/c there is no one else is not good logic…especially when there are other guys.

I agree somewhat with the criticism you have but it is not like Kolb is guarenteed to be better. he had 2 good starts…it was a big risk when houston traded for schaub and it got a lot of flak…not all trades like that will work and just b/c that did, doesn’t mean if we trade for kolb it will…plus the supporting cast in houston is much better than here (at least at receiver, and TE)

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Look, I’m not sure how many times I need to say this, but what the heck:

I’m not taking a hard stance on Kolb’s value.
I’m not necessarily big on Kolb
if we end up trading for Kolb… then I’ll be happy. Not because of my judgement of Kolb, but because of our FO’s appraisal.

I don’t know that Kolb is the answer. If we were to make a big trade for him, though, that would mean our FO did think that. THAT is what would make me happy. Not getting Kolb, but getting a young QB that could start right away that our FO has enough faith in to spend big on.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with this…

I am not even disagreeing with you…You might have said you are not necessarily big on kolb but your tone. your tone is implying that. Now I am not saying he isn’t a good option, just that there ARE better options out there. I do trust heckert b/c he saw the guy play and probably saw him some in practice. it is like the schaub trade except we get inside info…

You DID however not only suggest that we take him with the 2nd round pick but that he IS the answer.

Also, even if Kolb cost the #7 pick, we would win

you said we would win with kolb…I dunno how much clearer you can state that he is the answer…except saying “he is the answer”.

I don’t think we are on that different wavelengths either.

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Context… I was saying that we win versus drafting a quarterback with that pick.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah…But you seemed to be just hyping up kolb and a logical person would think that YOU think he is worth the pick because you talked about his cost being that pick

you also said with him WE WOULD WIN…that is saying he is the answer. if you do not think that for certain, do not talk about how we will win with him…it will give any sensible person the wrong Idea…

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, the implication is there. I do actually think Kolb could work well, but it’s a relatively superficial opinion so I’m purposefully avoiding trying to defend it and instead concentrating on fact.

Also, I said “we would win” and then described in detail how we would win the transaction versus drafting a QB with the #7. Of course the pretense to the entire scenario is that Holmgren and Heckert are pulling the trigger, thereby implying their appraisal of Kolb was as a quality starter.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yes. when you put it that way, I totally agree. Also, I don’t think a lot of ppl are suggesting draft a QB either just b/c we don’t need a completely unproven rookie at the position. but implication aside, you did make very good points and I would not mind us getting him, although I would hope for nothing more than a second.

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 10:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s fair.

by danvail on Jan 14, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This made me laugh.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 9:09 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I say I agree when I do agree…

I am just disagreeing with his wording which implies something he doesn’t mean…

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 9:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I just really don’t want to see us build a pretty damn good team with our lack of QB our Achilles heel.

So … Jim Sorgi is right out?

by JustBob on Jan 14, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I really think he played extremely well last year when he was healthy. His mechanics were solid. 85-90% of the time, his accuracy was awesome.

The problem is that this year he regressed from that. His accuracy was terrible. His mechanics were not worse, not better. That’s scary.

by rufio on Jan 13, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah that’s what I’ve seen too. I didn’t like trading up to draft him but once we did I really, really wanted him to work out. I just can’t see it happening with the accuracy problems. It’s really disappointing.

by danvail on Jan 14, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I loved most of that draft. I wanted Wright really bad before the trade, and then thought we had no shot once we traded up. Then we somehow managed to still get him.

I don’t know, I really think that Quinn can get back to 2008 form. He was accurate. His mechanics were mostly good. But I think this year was a pretty clear signal that 2008 form is probably Quinn’s ceiling. That would get the job done for 2010, but it wouldn’t be the kind of guy you want to build the franchise around. Just glad we have Holmgren now.

by rufio on Jan 15, 2010 1:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s probably a fair approach. Quinn will have to show us something in 2010.

by Western Reserve on Jan 15, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The eyebrow skew is genius. Being photoshop buddies rock!

If I hear "There's always next year" one more time...

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 13, 2010 9:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rec for hilarious reference

Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!

Damn it feels good to be a Buckeye!

FKA BLAZER_FAN_199. Now an author for the Jackets Cannon! Check it out!

by Andrew Tolliver on Jan 13, 2010 9:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

With the mess as its been how can you tell?

Crennel seemed to have a personal beef with Quinn. And with the OC situation the way its been and the QB coach (Ha) how can you really evaluate Quinn? Not like he has played that much anyway. Look at Vince Young. He finally seems to have figured it out.

As regards Cribbs, I think that he was told take it or leave it and Holmgren does not deny that happened but I BET he never bought off on the take it or leave it part. The way he DID NOT ANSWER the question spoke volumes. He did not want to hang anyone out to dry at this time.

by burmafrd1944 on Jan 13, 2010 8:25 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Crennel seemed to have a personal beef with Quinn.

Or maybe Crennel had a QB who became an alternate for the Pro Bowl. I’m not trying to say DA was the next Montana, but I don’t think anyone expected Quinn to start his rookie year and after the year DA had it makes sense that he would start in 2008.

They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best

About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback

by Villeslgr on Jan 13, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly. There is no evidence whatsoever that Crennel had a problem with Quinn. Zero.

by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 13, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How could Crennel have a problem with anybody?

He just stood there looking confused…..
…..And he’s still out there. He can’t be bargained with, he can’t be reasoned with…he doesn’t feel pity, or remorse or fear. And he absolutely will not stop being confused, ever, until WE have LOST .

"I don’t dance too much." --Mike Holmgren

by johnnyphoenix on Jan 13, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Roll on snare drum. Everybody laugh.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

/just watched the watchmen

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I just saw Optimus die.

I’m still pretty broken up about it.

If I hear "There's always next year" one more time...

by SpecialBrownie on Jan 13, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

it was such an obvious, ill-advised, and repetitive pun that there was no way i could let it go.

i was even booing and hissing myself as i was typing it.

You are reading my signature.

by rolub on Jan 13, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I liked it.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

TWS- oh wait you meant his food, right?

They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best

About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback

by Villeslgr on Jan 13, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You have been on fire sir!

by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

two people have already taken care of the Crennel part, so i’ll tackle the cribbs part. I’m pretty sure in his press conference holmgren said something to the effect of

That take it or leave it stuff, I think that went out a long time ago. I’m not sure you ever say that.

so that seems to indicate it wasn’t a take-it-or-leave-it offer

I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.

by notthatnoise on Jan 13, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree. Sounds like a dodge to me. Why would Cribbs lie?

by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 13, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Cribbs hasn’t really said anything about take it or leave it that I’ve heard. He’s just whined and complained that he wasn’t paid within 2 days of the end of the season.

The agent is the one that has fed us the BS about take it or leave it.

by shep615 on Jan 13, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

cribbs (or more precisely his agent) would lie because it makes the fans angry at management, and right now angry fans are the only leverage he’s got.

I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.

by notthatnoise on Jan 13, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

also, when he says “I’m not sure you ever say that” he means he can’t think of a situation where he would say that, including this one, meaning he never said it.

I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.

by notthatnoise on Jan 13, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In my opinion, this gives a really vague statement a lot of weight. After all, whether he said it isn’t the question – it’s whether the organization did.

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 14, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s not a dodge, it is coachspeak for “that’s absurd, we don’t do take it or leave it offers That might have happened, but it was take it now or leave it now, and we’ll talk more down the road. I can’t think of a situation where you would ever say that”.

by rufio on Jan 14, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t really understand this. Why doesn’t Holmgren just say that, if somewhat more diplomatically?

I’ve said this before, but I’d hoped Holmgren would say plainly that the whole ‘take it or leave it’ thing was an error or a misunderstanding, and make a show of pushing the reset button. I still think that "That take it or leave it stuff, I think that went out a long time ago. I’m not sure you ever say that." is a nonanswer worthy of a professional politician.

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 14, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno, he had to answer the question quickly and in front of lots of people? The question could have been dodged a lot more. Implying that you never say “take it or leave it” is a pretty clear sign that Cribbs’ offer wasn’t a “take it or leave it” one.

People are just far too worked up over the Cribbs issue.

by rufio on Jan 15, 2010 2:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

People are just far too worked up over the Cribbs issue.

Guilty as charged, but anyway….

I dunno, he had to answer the question quickly and in front of lots of people?

But it’s not like he didn’t know people were going to ask, with that bit at the beginning about “… who’s going to make the call on draft day, [who’s in charge of] the 53-man roster, [who is going to negotiate with] Josh Cribbs…”

I think I just hate issues that could be cleared up with a minute’s worth of straight talk, or are based on someone’s prevarication.

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 15, 2010 9:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

exactly…

Quinn was good this yr and last yr when healthy and not playing an elite defense, or playing in cleveland in december (exception: KC but he might have gotten injured in that game)

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s a lot of exceptions.

And I don’t see how anyone could say that Quinn was good this year. He has clearly regressed from last season and his accuracy is not good enough to be a quality starter. You can make all the excuses you want but the stats don’t lie.

I really hope he comes back next year and plays much better but we certainly can’t count on that to happen.

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 14, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree He didn’t look great…Maybe good wasn’t a good word. I was thinking more okay. He did face some tough defenses though, though that isn’t much of an excuse. I more am commenting agreeing that he deserves a look under holmgren.

by bross09 on Jan 14, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Encouraging discussion, debate and even arguing sounds like a mature approach.
As it stands it´s nice to see these guys speak freely about what they intend to do, it means they can settle in and acclimate, before they delineate what is Browns and what is not.

by mooncamping on Jan 13, 2010 8:33 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. I hope they remain this open!

by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Jan 14, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah if that isn’t a death stare from Mangini, I don’t know what to call it.

Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!

Damn it feels good to be a Buckeye!

FKA BLAZER_FAN_199. Now an author for the Jackets Cannon! Check it out!

by Andrew Tolliver on Jan 13, 2010 9:26 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Call it the way Mangini looks all the time. That’s probably just his neutral expression, but people think it looks like a death stare. Probably why Grossi hates him.

by rufio on Jan 14, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

His stares illuminate what people hate about themselves, so they in turn despise him for seeing into their souls and knowing they are pathetic.

I saw it in a movie once.

They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best

About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback

by Villeslgr on Jan 14, 2010 12:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh then it must be true.

Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!

Damn it feels good to be a Buckeye!

FKA BLAZER_FAN_199. Now an author for the Jackets Cannon! Check it out!

by Andrew Tolliver on Jan 14, 2010 9:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well gosh, if Grossi hates him we should probably get rid of him.

by Roger Dorn on Jan 14, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yes…we should always listen to grossi’s opinion on people…

by bross09 on Jan 14, 2010 5:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i really like the way things look and feel with the organization right now. i’m probably more optimistic now than i’ve ever been about this team (since the return). whether it pans out or not, its nice to know we finally have people with a clear track record of good decisions and winning football.

by Dawg Nuts on Jan 13, 2010 10:14 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I like that we are actually talking football from the front office and not a whole lot of spin.

http://prideofcleveland.blogspot.com/

by Red-Right-88 on Jan 13, 2010 10:40 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, isn’t that nice? Let’s hope it lasts.

by danvail on Jan 13, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I actually miss the spin. Other organizations already have a few ideas of what we want to do in the offseason and can use it against us. We could use a smokescreen or two soon.

by rufio on Jan 14, 2010 12:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Is this kind of an extrapolation, or are there specific things they’ve said that you think could come back to haunt us?

by danvail on Jan 14, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought I saw somewhere else that Heckert specifically talked about the passing game with regards to the draft.

From that; I think it’s pretty clear we want WRs/pass-catching TEs, and a QB this offseason. We won’t be picking a WR or TE at #7. If we like Bradford, that’s leverage someone would have over us.

Savage was able to trade down to get Wimbley and got an extra 6th because he knew exactly who Baltimore wanted. Baltimore was able to give up only a 6th because they knew exactly who Savage wanted.

The stuff with regards to BPA/needs was a little much for me, too.

Coming from the GM, especially. Holmgren or Mangini could be vague enough to mean Xs and Os or players.

Its just little stuff, but it matters. But, like a good running game, we could use it to set up some “play action fakes”. As long as the other teams don’t have a good grasp on what we will do on draft day, I’m fine with it.

by rufio on Jan 15, 2010 2:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

(On if he will keep his staff intact)- "Right now everybody’s in place. Tom Myslinski, the strength coach, his contract is up and we won’t be renewing that. Besides that, I don’t foresee anything in the immediate future, but I’d be open to looking at things and seeing what other opportunities are out there."

This isn’t the first time they have said something like this. I’m following the Daboll watch closely. It seems to me that they will keep him (and everyone else) unless one of the guys they want become available.

Kinda sounds like what Holmgren thought about Mangini. Sure, there might be better guys to do the job, but those guys aren’t available. A change for marginal improvement is not worth the loss in stability.

fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com

by Ryan Kelsey on Jan 13, 2010 11:46 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

damn it! what will we do without tom myslinski? holmgren must go!

by Dawg Nuts on Jan 13, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree 100%.

Dawgs By Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Jan 13, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m guessing that Daboll is getting another season, maybe with some helpful tips from Holmgren.

by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 13, 2010 9:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m guessing that Daboll is getting another season, maybe with some helpful tips a good kick in the ass from Holmgren.

Fixed.

"I don’t dance too much." --Mike Holmgren

by johnnyphoenix on Jan 13, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Kinda sounds like what Holmgren thought about Mangini. Sure, there might be better guys to do the job, but those guys aren’t available.

This goes against other things Holmgren has said. Care to explain why you think this?

by rufio on Jan 14, 2010 12:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, even if he thinks that then of course he’s not going to come out and say that. But I think he’s at least partially right. I think it was a combination of there not being anyone available that he really wanted right now and he didn’t think it would be fair to fire Mangini after only one season, especially coming off a 4-game winning streak.

by Buckeye Brad on Jan 14, 2010 8:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course he wouldn’t say it. He just would have fired Mangini.

by rufio on Jan 15, 2010 2:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This is the language that leads me to believe that they are waiting for better options to become available:

t I’d be open to looking at things and seeing what other opportunities are out there

Now that is Mangini re: assistant coaches. Holmgren has said similar things the past couple weeks re: assistant coaches and generally about all positions. Seeing what the other opportunities are. There is also heavy speculation, matched with apparent fact, that the list available coaches was something less than overwhelming.

Put it this way, if Andy Reid were out of a job, Mangini would not have been retained.

fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com

by Ryan Kelsey on Jan 14, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But all it has been has been speculation. Just like all the speculation about Mangini “definitely” losing his job. Holmgren seemed to back Mangini and the impression I got was that if he doubted for a second that Mangini could be a long term success, he would already be gone.

by rufio on Jan 15, 2010 2:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

if he doubted for a second that Mangini could be a long term success, he would already be gone.

Therein lies the difference of opinion. You seem to be suggesting Holmgren’s retention of Mangini is some sort of full faith or carte blanche. It likely wasn’t at the time he was retained, and it likely isn’t now. If you want to put all your eggs in one basket with Mangini, fine, but I seriously doubt Holmgren is.

by Western Reserve on Jan 15, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I loved watching the dynamic of the group, too. I always thought Mangini was a fairly decent speaker… Good charisma, always knew what to say, etc… But then when he’s thrown in with Heckert and Holmgren (especially Holmgren) he looks more like a freshman in highschool in his first speech class.

by shep615 on Jan 13, 2010 12:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

“One decision-maker goes one way, the other decision-maker goes the other way….and this guy’s sayin’,….”Whadda ya want from me?’

"I don’t dance too much." --Mike Holmgren

by johnnyphoenix on Jan 13, 2010 5:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I get your imagery, but this is exceedingly weird. Sort of like Salvador Dali on crystal meth.

by drjeo on Jan 13, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I get your imagery, but this is exceedingly weird. Sort of like Salvador Dali on crystal meth.

Relax, will ya? Ya flip right out, what’s got into you? I’m breaking your balls a little bit, that’s all. I’m only kidding with ya…and you’re getting fucking fresh. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you.

"I don’t dance too much." --Mike Holmgren

by johnnyphoenix on Jan 13, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

come on man, Im just breakin you balls

go back to shinin’ those shoes…

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t get it. Explain?

by shep615 on Jan 13, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think he saw Goodfellas I’m guessin.’

"I don’t dance too much." --Mike Holmgren

by johnnyphoenix on Jan 14, 2010 2:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah…so there is no point breakin’ his balls over it…

by bross09 on Jan 14, 2010 11:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

does this mean that joe pesci will beat up holmgren in a bar fight???

by bross09 on Jan 13, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

More like the Drive thru.

http://prideofcleveland.blogspot.com/

by Red-Right-88 on Jan 14, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

lol…you got the reference though, right?

by bross09 on Jan 14, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait Holmgren actually left that message?

by danvail on Jan 14, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah he did.

"I don’t dance too much." --Mike Holmgren

by johnnyphoenix on Jan 14, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If that is true I have a new hero

I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.

by notthatnoise on Jan 14, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know. AWESOME.

by danvail on Jan 14, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

classic!!

http://prideofcleveland.blogspot.com/

by Red-Right-88 on Jan 14, 2010 11:25 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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