Trading up
by A_James on Jan 22, 2010 11:21 AM EST
132 comments
I haven't posted much, but I read a lot here and the one possibility I haven't seen talked about is the Browns trading up. They have 11 draft picks and I really don't see them drafting 11 guys. Just to many to sign and a big hit on the cap for several mediocre players. Does anyone think there is a chance of them using some of those draft picks to trade up to possibly have a chance at Suh or to get Berry for sure? Maybe there is they one guy they really want and have the picks to get up there.
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I’d agree to an extent. As Dorn mentions, I don’t think Suh is an option at all, and Holmgren/Heckert would have to be absolutely in love with a player to move up. Could that guy be Bradford? Who knows. I do know that the entire draft will keep my attention, which is a 180 degree change from the 2008 draft.
You are reading my signature.
Somebody educate me on the cap hit perspective. I had just assumed that only applied to the guys who made the final roster – which I wouldn’t expect all of those picks to do. Do teams really take a cap hit on rookie players who are cut before the regular season?
Yes. Any player with a signing bonus in their contract would affect our cap, even if they don’t earn a dime of their non-guaranteed money. I am pretty sure 100% of money we actually pay players counts on our cap at some point. NFL teams just fudge where and how that money is accounted for.
I think a lot of 6th and 7th round picks’ contracts would have minimal guaranteed money, though. And those are the guys that are usually cut in <1 year.
Slot #7 is very high. Any slot higher, except first overall to remove all doubt, is dubious because it´s just too hot up there to get any guarantees.
The only player feasible at first overall is a QB. And the only one worth that is Jimmy Clausen. The way they are shopping him around at later positionings is hypocritical, he´s a franchise QB. The Jay Cutler of this year´s draft so to speak.
Now, I know this is begging for ridicule, but that´s how I see it.
Otherwise slot #7 is perfect for taking a stand, and thus putting the other drafters at ease, helping with relations. So if you think Berry, Suh is viable at #7, we might put in our bids at that spot.
The Jay Cutler of this year´s draft so to speak.
you really think claussen is a head-case who is extremely interception prone?
I actually agree with that statement. Or that’s what I think he’ll become when he hits the NFL. Haha.
If I hear "There's always next year" one more time...
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 23, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, cause he throws soooo many INTs, right?
by TheRealSlimShady on Jan 23, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Or that’s what I think he’ll become when he hits the NFL.
Somebody doesn’t know how to read.
If I hear "There's always next year" one more time...
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 23, 2010 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
No, I’m just saying that it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to say Clausen will be an INT machine when he throws so few now.
by TheRealSlimShady on Jan 24, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Some QBs can throw very few picks against lesser competition, but then struggle against better defenses. See: Chad Pennington in regular season vs. Chad Pennington in the playoffs.
Back to Clausen, it is plausable that a college QB who doesn’t throw INTs could throw a bunch in the NFL. It makes less sense that Clausen would be that kind of QB because he doesn’t have a lot of physical limitations.
That’s not what he meant, I don’t think. MC loves Cutler from what I remember. That’s why he said this:
he´s a franchise QB
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 23, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
I would rather have Eli Manning than jay cutler (bradford is getting manning comparisons but I think he is an even better decision maker)
I’m not saying Cutler is a franchise QB, just explaining what MC thinks and why he compared Clausen to him.
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 23, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
I am all alone with mooncamping (scariest sentence I have ever typed).
Jay Cutler is still one of the 10 best QB’s in the NFL. You can’t knock a guy because he had a poor season in which his best passing targets were a RB and a former CB.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 23, 2010 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
I still think Cutler is good as well, but don’t know if I’d put him top 10 at the moment. The Bears are a mess right now, and it’s not entirely Cutler’s fault.
Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers, Warner, McNabb, Favre, Romo, Schaub, and Roethisberger are all better than Cutler in my book. Eli Manning, Matt Ryan, and maybe Vince Young and Joe Flacco are right around Cutler. So he’s middle of the pack.
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 24, 2010 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
I have him in front of Romo, Schaub and Roethlisberger.
I could be talked into putting Ryan in front of Cutler though.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 24, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
Romo, Roethlisberger, and Schaub are all much more efficient than Cutler. Career Y/A are 8.1, 8.0, and 7.8, respectively, compared to 7.1 for Cutler, and all three have a higher completion %, more TD’s and less picks (on average) than Cutler. So, in other words, each of them completes more of their passes, for more yards per attempt, and with more TD’s and less interceptions. I don’t really see how Cutler is better than any of those three.
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 24, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
This is how I got to my thinking.
Matt Schuab has done it for one full season. He has the talent, but until he is a little more consistent, I think Cutler is better. Schaub has been the starter in Houston 3 years and he has played in 38 games. That isn’t cutting it for me.
Big Ben has up until this season, never been asked to carry a team by himself. In Cutlers two seasons as a starter in Denver Cutler never had a 1,000 yard passer. If you put Cutler in Pittsburgh, I think that Cutler puts Ben’s numbers to shame.
For Romo, it is somewhat like the situation that of Ben. Romo has been surrounded by excellent playmakers (Owens, Witten, Austin, Barber, Jones, and Glenn as his first season as a starter) and usually a good defense (from ‘06-’09 ranked 13th, 9th, 8th and 9th).
Cutler had Marshall, a full on bad ass, Royal, and Scheffler. His defenses in Denver (19th in ’07 and 29th in ’08) were bad. His running attacks were middle of the road. In other words, he did more with less than Romo.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 24, 2010 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
Matt Schuab has done it for one full season. He has the talent, but until he is a little more consistent, I think Cutler is better. Schaub has been the starter in Houston 3 years and he has played in 38 games. That isn’t cutting it for me.
If last year was considered bad, Cutler has done it for two seasons.
Big Ben has up until this season, never been asked to carry a team by himself. In Cutlers two seasons as a starter in Denver Cutler never had a 1,000 yard passer. If you put Cutler in Pittsburgh, I think that Cutler puts Ben’s numbers to shame.
As much as I think Big Ben is overrated he has done what a QB is supposed to do. Win. A QB’s job isn’t to throw for tons of yards and TDs, it’s to lead his team to victory, and Big Ben has done that consistently enough to remove himself from Dilfer territory as just a beneficiary of a good team.
Put Cutler’s numbers in Pitt. Do they still win the Super Bowl with him?
Cutler had Marshall, a full on bad ass, Royal, and Scheffler. His defenses in Denver (19th in ’07 and 29th in ’08) were bad. His running attacks were middle of the road. In other words, he did more with less than Romo.
What really did Cutler do besides throw for a bunch of yards? We all know he can throw the ball over the field. His two good years, Denver went 7-9 and 8-8.
The Great Jake Plummer led Broncos went 10 – 6 and 13- 3 before Cutler arrived. When Cutler replaced Plummer the Broncos were 7-4 and finished 2-3 to end the season.
Obviously win loss records aren’t the be all end all to judge a QB but all Jake has shown is that he can throw for a lot of yards and lose.
All that said, I think Cutler has great talent but until he shows that he knows how to use it consistently and intelligently he’s a Brett Favre without all the good things that make you forget the bonehead things.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
As much as I think Big Ben is overrated he has done what a QB is supposed to do. Win. A QB’s job isn’t to throw for tons of yards and TDs, it’s to lead his team to victory, and Big Ben has done that consistently enough to remove himself from Dilfer territory as just a beneficiary of a good team.
Really? This again?
Put Cutler’s numbers in Pitt. Do they still win the Super Bowl with him?
Hell yes they do. That is my opinion but Ben’s stats in the Super Bowl season of ‘05 are low. 2,300 yards and 17 TD’s. Cutler may throw 6 more INT’s but he also throws for 1,500 more yards.
What really did Cutler do besides throw for a bunch of yards? We all know he can throw the ball over the field. His two good years, Denver went 7-9 and 8-8.
With zero defense and a middle of the road running game. Are we really using team records for a gauge of a QB’s worth? I guess you think that Mark Sanchez is a top 4 QB in the NFL right now?
Obviously win loss records aren’t the be all end all to judge a QB but all Jake has shown is that he can throw for a lot of yards and lose
Not only is not the end all be all, it shouldn’t even matter one bit.
All that said, I think Cutler has great talent but until he shows that he knows how to use it consistently and intelligently he’s a Brett Favre without all the good things that make you forget the bonehead things.
And what are those good things that Cutler is lacking? He has thrown a lot of INT’s (up until this season his INT totals haven’t been alarming). Cutler throws into coverage way too much because he trusts him arm more than his head right now. Cutler is still 26. Start of next season Sam Bradford will be 23. Cutler has yet to hit his stride.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 24, 2010 2:43 AM EST up reply actions
The good things Cutler is lacking are “escapeability”, magicienesque play action fakes, better accuracy, a more full understanding of what defenses are trying to do, the ability to get his offense on the same page, and a better sense of when to audible. Not saying Cutler can’t do it, but he isn’t close to as good as Favre was in his prime.
Obviously Cutler still has 10ish years to get there.
They had Jay Cutler trapped in the pocket all year, sometimes with no runningback. It´s like driving a Ferrari at Demolition Derby.
by mooncamping on Jan 24, 2010 7:37 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
i rec’d because i knew his comment being green would make people mad.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Jan 24, 2010 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
Hold on. There’s only one rec.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I would rather have him in the pocket than outside of it. he can scramble but I think he is a much better pocket passer. when he scrambles, he makes a lot of risky throws. a majority of his interceptions are outside of the pocket.
Reply fail.
If I hear "There's always next year" one more time...
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 25, 2010 8:47 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, but from what I read his comment had nothing to do with the Ferrari discussion a few comments above it.
If I hear "There's always next year" one more time...
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 25, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Bernie said Shannahan used Cutler perfectly, which I really agree with because Cutler was rolling out of the pocket a lot doing PA fakes on bootlegs off of their zone blocking scheme, which I thought utilized Cutler’s mobility perfectly. He’s fast for a QB, but not a guy you want running like Vince Young.
Therefore, yes, he’s a mobile QB who you want moving and throwing on the run, but comparing him to a sports car is waaayyyy too far, and that comparison was the beginning of all of this talk about him inside/outside the pocket.
I’m not saying that a guy being on a winning team makes him good. I’m saying that the things that Cutler has actually accomplished do not make him a top 10 QB and the fact that his teams don’t win either drops him lower.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
With zero defense and a middle of the road running game. Are we really using team records for a gauge of a QB’s worth? I guess you think that Mark Sanchez is a top 4 QB in the NFL right now?
Their D sucked but in ’07 they had the 9th ranked rushing offense ahead of dallas and just under 200 behind Pitt. In ’08 they had just over 100 more yards rushing than Dallas and just under 200 more rushing yards than Pitt.
Every player on a team plays a role in that team’s success. Cutler has played a role in amassing yards.
In 2007 when Pitt lost in the 1st round Ben had 32 tds and 11 ints, so he can put up stats too. Eventually Cutler has to do something more than just throw for a bunch of yards. So far he hasn’t which is why he’s not a top 10 QB.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Eventually Cutler has to do something more than just throw for a bunch of yards. So far he hasn’t which is why he’s not a top 10 QB.
I can understand where you are coming from on that.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 24, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Has anyone in history been able to pander more success while still being completely oblivious to his own averageness?
by Chief WaDrew on Jan 25, 2010 2:22 AM EST up reply actions
He’s stated that he had nothing to do with that SB run or win.
He compared Flacco this year to what he’s always been. So he knows he’s average.
If I hear "There's always next year" one more time...
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 25, 2010 8:48 AM EST up reply actions
Sadly. This is true. =’[
If I hear "There's always next year" one more time...
by SpecialBrownie on Jan 25, 2010 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure if I said this, but I think he has all the talent to be a top QB but he just hasn’t shown that he will ever get it and produce. A part of me was hoping that we could have got him this past off season (before I saw what it would take to get him, no one is worth that).
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Schaub is also throwing to Andre Johnson, who is not human. He is also throwing in Texas in a dome, and not outdoors in the Windy City (or Denver, it’s pretty cold/windy here too). Cutler’s line is also not good at pass pro (but was very good in Denver). There are lots of factors to those numbers. None of those guys could have put up good numbers on the Browns this year.
I’d still put Schaub ahead, along with Manning, and Ryan. Romo is not better than Cutler, and neither are Rothlisberger, Young, or Flacco.
This is almost 100% my opinion, though I begrudgingly rate Roethlisberger ahead of Cutler. After this year, when he had a terrible run game and they became a pure passing team, it’s hard to use the standard dismissal of him.
I think that (Ben ahead of Cutler) i’s fair, and really to the larger point I think it says something about the QBs in the NFL: there are a few elite guys, a bunch of average guys, and a whole lot of not-so-good guys.
Cutler is pretty clearly in that second group. Maybe that still means he is in the top-10 or top-however man, but at some point after Brees, Peyton, Brady, maybe Rivers, etc. there is a huge dropoff.
What you perceive as a head-case (Jay Cutler) is probably the most coachable QB in the NFL. He´s always thinking, reevaluating, adapting. He´s a consummate pro, he never gives up, and if the game didn´t end, he would beat you, beat anyone presently in the NFL. His skill set is undeniable, even to his biggest critics. The Brett Favre comparisons are dead on, he makes average receivers great. True, compared to Peyton Manning he is lagging in terms of command and efficiency, but getting there is as assured as Amen in church.
He played uphill in Denver and downhill in Chicago. It is mystifying that the odds have always been stacked against him even on his own teams. But unfortunately the fans have not had his back, and his teammates have not been able to pick up the slack.
If you believe in this guy, he´s super human. He´s your guide to football heaven and hell.
How Cutler handled his situation in Denver was beyond forgivable. What in the world makes you say he is “probably the most coachable QB in the NFL”?
And he did give up, on the Broncos.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Jan 24, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think Jay Cutler was the most mature party in the whole pressure cooker, culminating in even putting a leash on Bus Cook, to salvage the situation. Even his Dad, showed poise by returning the potentially compromising playbook, that was sent to Jay Cutler, which must have been a terribly scary walk into the team headquarters. He was John Wayne for his son.
A Denver QB has to be very tough, yet almost unnaturally congenial.
Jay Cutler can be a live wire, but he is under no circumstances a head case.
In all the ugglyness, that was passed on by media proponents either vying for him or vilifying him across the nation, he was a class act towards the Broncos fans and Pat Bowlen. He still gets much respect around Denver, even if they persist that he could not fill the mold that was John Elway.
Jay’s daddy returning a playbook in person was John Wayne like? I don’t know where you are from, but we have a much higher standard for comparing people to John Wayne in the United States. Guess what? The US Postal Service is a wonderful thing.
A Denver QB has to be very tough? I don’t know why this is more true than any other NFL QB. But I know one thing that is clear as day, Jay Cutler was NOT tough enough to be a Denver QB. He failed at that.
He wasn’t a class act to the Broncos organization when he refused to return phone calls by his new coach and GM and owner. He pouted his way out of Denver. Lucky for them, the Bears made one of the worst trades the last decade.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Jan 25, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I´m glad you don´t know where I´m from, the way you lay into people.
And guess what? John Wayne would have been proud. There was a reason Jack Cutler chose to deliver the playbook back in person, and that was McDaniel´s insistance that a Pro needs to be at a coaches beckon call by telephony at all times. And that it was indicated that the appointments and mini-camp attendance were mandatory even though they weren´t, and thus legal implications were brought into play, as well as putting Jay Cutler into a situation where his loyalty towards teammates and fans was questioned. They even put the cuffs on Bus Cook by allowing the media to call him out for speaking for Jay Cutler, given no chance to repudiate. Another reason may have been that everyone got so personal, if not slanderous, that Jay´s problem became Jack´s problem.
I´m not going to get into an argument about toughness, when you´re shopping intolerable states. The Broncos fans would tell you, he´s plenty tough, in case you don´t know culminating in playing through symptoms of undiagnosed and untreated Diabetes. The reason he was ultimately let go, was indeed due to fan affinities, namely him not being their cup of tea. You´re in the best tradition, by calling him a head case, as some of them also routinely doubted his sanity based on whatever insulin level he may be having.
Once again, he was on leave, and McDaniels began pressuring him the moment he held his first press conference, publicly proclaiming that settling the QB situation was his top priority. The fans did their part by planting in his brain that Jay Cutler was an unruly personage, and that Josh McDaniels was to be the disciplinarian.
It wasn´t about pouting, it was all about cojones mixed with common sense. In my mind Jay Cutler carried this conflict, by standing up to wrongful expectations. When he finally got the call for Chicago, he was there in a snap, and I think no matter how you put it, he represents and upgrade over Orton and Grossman. So apart from the Bears finally having an undisputable talent, he also gave the Bears fans some much needed breathing room from themselves, since they are prone to be critical of their QBs. I haven´t heard much complaining, despite Jay Cutler´s futility.
I didn´t want to get into details, because it was uggly. But everyone involved ended up on their best behavior. The fans were thankful essentially because the blame Jay game ended, and they could concentrate on building a fresh new team. I think, we haven´t heard that many complaints out of Denver either, despite ending up 8-8.
You know somewhere in this blob, I found some points that I agree with, although I have been on Cutler’s side during the whole thing since the beginning.
It´s a blob, because to give a play by play lends itself to convolution. There was so much to keep in mind as the situation was pushing up against an unknown future. The best they could do was keep all the factors in mind, while being upstanding towards their own ethics. The pared down version, has very few strategic decisions while the actual events were ripe with possible swayers and determinants.
Yeah, Jay Cutler carried a lot of weight out of Denver, but I´m happy to say that those concerns were lifted off of him in Chicago. I have a feeling, that the critique of him there extends to what he does on the field. As it turns out, he is not their anointed one either, but fans there are smart enough to realize he´s a top tier talent. So now the onus is interception prone. But does that make him any less dangerous?
Sadly the critique can go off the field. from what I have heard from reports of people who have witnessed him off the field he plays how he is. arrogant, a little wild, and overconfident.
That´s hearsay. How would you like a throng of strangers following you around, expecting you to be weird?
A lot of people display the traits you name, when aggressively trying to have fun.
Another aspect that comes to mind in that context is, where are his friends to allay the extreme focus in these social situations?
Going out is to let your hair down, who else gets followed around into bars and clubs?
From now on when I get the bars i’m going to aggressively try to have fun. It sounds so much better than going for a drink.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
It is an exception to hearsay: the present sense impression exception to hearsay.
If you want to get legal on me i will get legal on you. people who have witnessed his actions have described him as immature and sometimes arrogant. he plays the same way (ergo lots of INTs).
if we’re speaking of more than one occasion, it would be evidence of reputation for a particular trait more so than present sense impression.
wouldn’t they have to make the statement at the time that he is being immature and sometimes arrogant?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
But i’m thinking the point is that they have to make a statement at that given time. They can’t come back later and say I thought this.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
actually they can…maybe that isn’t the exact hearsay exception that fits but I know in a court of law they can state of what they thought at a certain time and it should be admissible.
If you got that technical in court, they would hold you to a higher standard, you might have a hard time achieving.
Hearsay, means a second hand account in simple terms, and is not limited to use in court.
by mooncamping on Jan 29, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
but you are forgetting hearsay exceptions.
present sense impression (A statement describing or explaining an event or condition made while the declarant was perceiving the event or condition)
excited utterance (statement under stress or excitement)
Business records.
Reputation as to character. (Reputation of a person’s character among associates or in the community.)
I would say my information about cutler fits multiple hearsay exceptions.
yes, technically. i misunderstood what villeslgr was saying. however, none of this applies to anything we’re talking about. it isn’t like we’re suing cutler for being a douche. we’re just talking about how he is one.
Can he sue us? Or is our speech protected?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
he could technically try to sue us for slander. but
1. a lot of what I have heard are from reports of people who have witnessed him off the field
2. Slander suits are nearly impossible to prove. even with all the evidence, the defense lawyer usually has to be incompetent for the plaintiff to win.
You´re putting up a good front.
I don´t think you´re sueable, you lack reflection.
It´s not about winning or losing, it´s about everyone having a good impression of the character represented.
It doesn´t matter what tools jurisprudence gives you, it´s about adequate usage.
You proliferate, making us assume you are academically sound. You´ve made one mistake, you assume we should know what you know.
The court must not expect you to be educated, but they must expect you to be intelligent. You Sir, are not intelligible.
Don´t get me wrong, it´s nice to have someone who knows this stuff.
But such excludable approaches (anyone who hasn´t studied laws) lend themselves to a rapid exchange of responses and consequences, rather than human discourse.
Such cases are second rate, and point to distrust and inconsequential participants.
I had to come back to this.
Regarding Jay Cutler, what are you saying in simple terms?
How is this set of legal lingo applicable to him?
The thing is, maybe you know more than I do, regarding what you might call “escapades” around town?
If so, would you be so kind as to delineate what you know?
I support Jay Cutler. If I had a selection of all QB´s in the league, he is my choice.
Is there anything that might sway me?
This is all written word so it would be libel not slander.
The sporting gods hate Cleveland, they give us false hopes, then yank it out from under us like a tablecloth.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 30, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
I´m content that your utterances displayed here, count as critique towards Jay Cutler, as put forward by your pseudonym, or screen-name as it is called here.
It gives me great pleasure, that prohibiting a change of heart or mind, you will not flip flop on the issue. It´s nice to know where your adversaries are, even if it´s only a virtual space.
To count as libel or slander you must first be considered capable of thus harming Jay Cutler´s reputation.
Fortunately you´re in good company, and thus not likely to be singled out as a prime constituent of his critics. Although your posturing as a legal expert does set you apart slightly. It would seem to make you prone to be seen a ringleader of sorts.
I have no interest in accosting anyone, I´m interested in honest exchange of opinions.
If your opinion of Jay Cutler is bad, let that stand, and don´t pretend that your understanding of some legal figment, leads you to conscientiously oppose him.
what?
The sporting gods hate Cleveland, they give us false hopes, then yank it out from under us like a tablecloth.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 3, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
Are there terms, regarding a potential dismissal of Jay Cutler by the Bears, based on general perception of off the field issues?
Would we sign him, if this was the case?
I think he would ask for more money than he’s worth.
The sporting gods hate Cleveland, they give us false hopes, then yank it out from under us like a tablecloth.
by North Coast Flea on Feb 4, 2010 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
I´m glad you don´t know where I´m from, the way you lay into people.
And guess what? John Wayne would have been proud. There was a reason Jack Cutler chose to deliver the playbook back in person, and that was McDaniel´s insistance that a Pro needs to be at a coaches beckon call by telephony at all times. And that it was indicated that the appointments and mini-camp attendance were mandatory even though they weren´t, and thus legal implications were brought into play, as well as putting Jay Cutler into a situation where his loyalty towards teammates and fans was questioned. They even put the cuffs on Bus Cook by allowing the media to call him out for speaking for Jay Cutler, given no chance to repudiate. Another reason may have been that everyone got so personal, if not slanderous, that Jay´s problem became Jack´s problem.
I´m not going to get into an argument about toughness, when you´re shopping intolerable states. The Broncos fans would tell you, he´s plenty tough, in case you don´t know culminating in playing through symptoms of undiagnosed and untreated Diabetes. The reason he was ultimately let go, was indeed due to fan affinities, namely him not being their cup of tea. You´re in the best tradition, by calling him a head case, as some of them also routinely doubted his sanity based on whatever insulin level he may be having.
Once again, he was on leave, and McDaniels began pressuring him the moment he held his first press conference, publicly proclaiming that settling the QB situation was his top priority. The fans did their part by planting in his brain that Jay Cutler was an unruly personage, and that Josh McDaniels was to be the disciplinarian.
It wasn´t about pouting, it was all about cojones mixed with common sense. In my mind Jay Cutler carried this conflict, by standing up to wrongful expectations. When he finally got the call for Chicago, he was there in a snap, and I think no matter how you put it, he represents and upgrade over Orton and Grossman. So apart from the Bears finally having an undisputable talent, he also gave the Bears fans some much needed breathing room from themselves, since they are prone to be critical of their QBs. I haven´t heard much complaining, despite Jay Cutler´s futility.
I didn´t want to get into details, because it was uggly. But everyone involved ended up on their best behavior. The fans were thankful essentially because the blame Jay game ended, and they could concentrate on building a fresh new team. I think, we haven´t heard that many complaints out of Denver either, despite ending up 8-8.
It was also widely speculated that Jay Cutler was worth two first round picks, and some clubs flirted with actually tendering that amount in the 2009 draft.
Chicago got the A-Ok, because they had the QB collateral, the Broncos fans insisted on, along with the more frugal 1st round pick in 2009 and 2010: “On April 2, Cutler was traded to the Chicago Bears along with a fifth-round pick in the 2009 NFL Draft. In return, the Broncos received quarterback Kyle Orton, the Bears’ first and third-round selections in 2009, and the Bears’ first-round pick in 2010.”
He is a much less and much more arrogant version of favre. favre could make all the throws, but because of that, he would try to on every play. that led to a lot of interceptions early in his career. cutler is the same way but worse. his mechanics rival tim tebow in how bad they are. Because he can throw on the run, he tries to every time. there is a difference between being able to do a lot of things and trying to do to much. peyton manning can do a lot of things but he doesn’t try to. he knows his limits. cutler is like that frat guy who is always drinking 15 beers, throwing up, and passing out. he tries to do to much and does not know his limits.
but on a coachable sense, i would say he is one of the least coachable QBs in the league. what he showed us during the offseason was his personality. he shows it on the field too. he is arrogant and a headcase. if anything he is uncoachable because he doesn’t listen to coaches well, is arrogant, and is set in his ways mechanic wise and it will be very hard to change.
He is not always adapting or reevaluating. he thinks he can do it all and therefore he can try. he can throw the ball across the field 50 yards across his body and on the run. he throws interceptions this way. after throwing an INT while trying to do too much, he doesn’t adjust and reevaluate, he just does it again
but on a coachable sense, i would say he is one of the least coachable QBs in the league. what he showed us during the offseason was his personality. he shows it on the field too. he is arrogant and a headcase. if anything he is uncoachable because he doesn’t listen to coaches well, is arrogant, and is set in his ways mechanic wise and it will be very hard to change.
You have no idea on any of this. This is 100% opinion. Only his coaches know how he takes to directions.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 24, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
It is not 100% opinion.
If he was an extremely coachable guy, do you think they would have kept him?? probably. any guy who is a headcase is hard to coach because of that…was braylon easy to coach??? Heck no! It is pretty obvious that he wasn’t.
He DOES have bad mechanics and they get worse every year. He makes up for this b/c of talent though. He consistently makes dumb plays like throwing across his body on the run. most QBs wouldn’t dream of doing this but he can actually make it work b/c of his arm strength. tell me one coach who thinks this is bad mechanics?? I guarantee you someone along the way told him it was a bad Idea. He still does it and even when he messes up because of it, he does it again because he can.
If he was an extremely coachable guy, do you think they would have kept him?? probably.
Once again, opinion. You and I have no idea if Cutler is coachable or not. How does him demanding a trade have anything to do with a player being coachable or not? Unless you have been his coach, you have no idea.
IMO, I think that Josh McDaniels is an a*shole. He has had three coaches leave this offseason for lateral moves. That is much more telling than anything Cutler did.
any guy who is a headcase is hard to coach because of that…was braylon easy to coach??? Heck no! It is pretty obvious that he wasn’t.
Who says that Cutler is a headcase?
He DOES……he does it again because he can.
What does this paragraph have anything to do with what I was talking about?
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 24, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
IMO, I think that Josh McDaniels is an a*shole.
are you trying to disprove an opinion with an opinion?? IMO, josh McDaniels is a pretty good coach from what we have seen so far.
He maybe be a good coach but from the outside looking in he comes across as a guy I would not buy a drink for. Being a good coach does not preclude one from being a donkey crevice.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
by Villeslgr on Jan 24, 2010 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Recced for the creative way you said asscrack.
The sporting gods hate Cleveland, they give us false hopes, then yank it out from under us like a tablecloth.
by North Coast Flea on Jan 25, 2010 6:02 AM EST up reply actions
are you trying to disprove an opinion with an opinion?? IMO, josh McDaniels is a pretty good coach from what we have seen so far.
No, but I have a lot more evidence in a much shorter amount of time.
by Bernie19Kosar on Jan 25, 2010 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
I agree on McDaniels. He has had problems with Cutler, Brandon Marshall, and Tony Scheffler all in 1 season. At some point, you have to look at McDaniels and not just assume that the players are all spoiled.
at the same time, cutler and especially marshall already had problems before he came there…that is blaming a coach for some things completely out of his control.
I’d try to trade most our draft picks, except our 1st and 2nd rounders. We really don’t need to get much younger, we just need good talent.
We only need to draft about 5-6 players i’m thinking. So lets trade to get better picks, or acutal players from other teams.
Here’s the thing: other teams aren’t going to want to trade good players for a bunch of low round picks. So that’s not gonna happen.
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 23, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
This is not the case. We’re not playing Madden here; you need to cast a wide net in order to stockpile talent.
True, and people to get injured and you have to have replacements who can hold their own. That said, are we going to better improve the team by drafting less players in the 1st-3rd, or by drafting more of them in the 4th-7th?
Most of the time, I am all for more picks, but we don’t really have any massive holes on the team, except for CB and S. I would love to improve at LOTS of other areas, but we absolutely need another CB and another S who can play.
I strongly believe that good-to-great CBs are much more often found in the 1st and early 2nd rounds. That isn’t to say you can’t find Asante Samuel in the 4th, it just happens a lot less often. We have a bunch of guys who are hard working, good character guys who lack elite talent. We have a good amount of role players, what we really lack are elite talents.
For this reason, I don’t think I would mind packaging 2-3 picks in the later rounds to move earlier in the draft. Especially knowing that we have a lot of later round picks. I would be disappointed if we Ricky Williams-ed our draft.
I think it will take far too much to move up very far from #7. Maybe moving up to 5 or 6 would be realistic, but getting a chance at Suh would probably require a bunch of valuable 2nd and 3rd rounders, if not several 1sts.
I would not at all mind moving up into the 2nd or 3rd rounds, and I think packaging some of our later picks could do that for us. I don’t think we have room for 11 rookies next year, but we do have plenty of holes to fill. I think the more picks we have in the 2nd/3rd rounds, the better.
To answer the original post more to the point, yes indeed, those 11 picks are prone to be traded for the type of professionals we could plug right into the depth chart.
In fact, I think we should accumulate more draft picks, by trading the two QB´s we don´t want, and not a few of the uselessly stockpiled 4-3 players. And, um, yeah, prior to the draft. The coach is still new basically, the Prez is new, the FO is new to a degree, and the team sucked. What better time than now? What is required is Mike Holmgren to dedicate himself to the traditional Browns 3-4, and Big O Randy Lerner to reassert himself with a new mind-set.
In my player acquisition schemes, I need only 4 players from this draft.
You know what the heck, here they are:
G Sean Luvao, Arizona State
CB Justin Woodall, Alabama
NG Torrell Troup, UCF
FREAKY FLANKER, ?
This was boiling hot at times, but most people around here also know, that I think Eric Steinbach should be our center. Since there are guys who would stack probability against that to rival the Burj Dubai, of course I have alternate plans.
In this context, I´ll also look at Texas Tech center Brandon Carter.
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