Falcons Capitalize Off of Joe Thomas' Bad Day and Cleveland's QB Situation in 20-10 Win
| ATLANTA FALCONS (4-1) |
GAME #5 | CLEVELAND BROWNS (1-4) | |||
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VS. | ![]() |
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| 20 | 10 |
The Browns failed to win their second consecutive home game of the season as they fell to a pretty good Atlanta Falcons team by a final score of 20-10. You can chalk up a fifth straight game in which the Browns have been competitive or in position to win in the fourth quarter, but the fact is that this team is only 1-4 right now. We don't have it as bad as some teams do, which is something to be optimistic about.
Let's get to the review of the game. With the team back on the losing side, we'll begin with the goat first, and the game ball second...
WEEK 5 - ATLANTA FALCONS VS. CLEVELAND BROWNS (COMPLETE GAME REVIEW)
Goats of the Game:
- Joe Thomas: For as often as the Browns' elite left tackle deserves a game ball week in and week out but doesn't receive one, it's too bad that I have to highlight the time that he is a goat. It's not even worth mustering up any of our lovable "Joe Thomas / Pancake" type of jokes to make light of Thomas' performance. The fact is, he was beaten by Falcons defensive end John Abraham consistently.
Thomas gave up two sacks and another quarterback hit to Abraham, which qualifies this as Thomas' worst game as a pro by far. After the game, I'm sure Thomas was upset with the way he played, not only because he gave up a couple of sacks, but because of the impact those sacks had on the game.
The first sack, which happened right before halftime, resulted in Seneca Wallace's high ankle sprain. That led to a chain reaction of events -- Delhomme having to come in when he wasn't healthy, Delhomme re-injuring his ankle, and now the team forced to start Colt McCoy and sign Brett Ratliff against the Steelers this week. You hate to pin all of that on Thomas, but if Abraham hadn't gotten to Wallace, this review and our preparations for this week's game would probably be a lot different.
Abarham's other big plays on Thomas came on a sack in the first quarter, and then on a quarterback hit he got on Delhomme after the Browns were already down 20-10 in the fourth, resulting in an interception. Thomas' bad day isn't meant to take anything away from Abraham though, who definitely deserves a game ball for the Atlanta Falcons for the way he handled an all-Pro left tackle.
Awarding the Game Ball:
- Scott Fujita: I already highlighted why I gave Fujita a game ball in this week's Gameball post, so here is the cliff notes version: for the second week in a row, he stripped a quarterback of the football to give the Browns excellent field position. I remember Ryan Kelsey citing in the offseason how D'Qwell Jackson could never make those types of plays. So far, Fujita has two sack+fumbles the past two weeks, as well as a blocked field goal.
General Thoughts:
- Falling on the Fumble vs. Returning the Fumble: I figured I'd lead off this week's top point with something that seems to be a trend for our defense. While we aren't forcing many interceptions, we're coming up with key fumble recoveries while the game is close (i.e. within three points). So far, I remember four specific instances where our defensive players have fallen on top of a fumble to secure the football rather than trying to return it.
In Week 1, it was Eric Barton who did it against Tampa Bay. The past two weeks, it has been Kenyon Coleman doing it an unfathomable three times (talk about being in the right place at the right time!). It's hard to argue about Coleman's decision, because when he has recovered the football, it has set up a short field for our offense, and we probably would've been pissed at him if he tried to scoop up the football and run, only to muff it and allow the opposition to recover.
But then, I take a look at other games around the league where opposing teams are able to scoop up the football in a similar situation and take off. Case in point -- Kerry Rhodes did it against the Saints, and it resulted in a touchdown. Granted, that is a safety (Rhodes) doing it versus a lineman (Coleman), but with our quarterback situation the way it is now, I think our defense has to take the risk of scooping+running to put some points on the board. With the short distance he had to go, Coleman is a big man who could've possibly rumbled in for a score -- or if he gets tackled trying to pick the ball up, maybe someone like Eric Wright shoots in for the recovery and takes it the distance?
This might seem like nitpicking at its finest, but our team should take advantage of getting points any way they possibly can.
- Wallace Before the Injury: It's a real shame that Seneca Wallace had to leave with an ankle injury, because he was having a fantastic first half. His throw to Mohamed Massaquoi that just missed a touchdown was a thing of beauty, and so was his quick read on a version of the wheel route pass to Peyton Hillis for a touchdown.
Another underrated aspect about Wallace is his decision to not force a screen play. The past two weeks, we've tried to run a screen pass to Hillis three times. For whatever reason, each time, the defense has literally been all over the play. Wallace has made the smart decision each time by just tossing the football into the ground and moving on.
The whole time Wallace started the past several weeks, I kept praising him, but I always had the asterisk that Delhomme should play when he was ready. Now, it's only fitting that since Wallace is injured, I change my mind. While I still defend Delhomme to an extent, largely because he was still hobbled, Wallace has shown a type of consistency week in and week out against pretty good defenses that I didn't think he was capable of. For the areas I have pointed out that he lacks in, his consistency and ability to move the chains often was admirable.
- Where it All Went Wrong: Delhomme's first "real" drive of the game came in the second half after Fujita's fumble. I was bummed that Wallace had to leave after an impressive start, but I was under the impression that Delhomme's injury was healed enough that he could come in and manage the game well, especially with a short field to work with.
First play, Delhomme hits Robert Royal for seven yards. The next play, Joshua Cribbs fires the ball to Lawrence Vickers for ten yards and a first down. Great! Two plays, and we're already in a 1st-and-goal at the 7. That's when my heart started to sink. On the next play, Jake Delhomme inexplicably threw the football amidst 2-3 defenders to Cribbs over the middle. That's the type of risk/non-necessary play Wallace hasn't tried to make since he started. After a nice run by Hillis, the Browns had 3rd-and-goal at the 2. Hillis always moves forward, so I thought we'd go for it on the ground on both plays...
- Delhomme's Center-Exchange Issues: ...on the handoff, Delhomme appeared to pitch the ball straight back to Hillis on what should have been a single back handoff. On replay, Delhomme simply never had the football under control when he came out from under center. Luckily Hillis recovered the ball, but it was a wasted down and the Browns had to settle for a field goal.
Hillis told Delhomme, "you owe me one," but the veteran quarterback wasn't able to repay him. Are the center-exchange issues a problem of Delhomme's, or center Alex Mack's? Considering the problems only come up when Delhomme plays (as opposed to Wallace, or even Quinn and Anderson from last year), I'd say it's a Delhomme problem.
- One Last Chance: It's amazing how close the Browns were to winning this game, despite the 20-10 outcome. Remember, Cleveland was down 13-10 and had the ball at midfield in the fourth quarter with just under five minutes to play. For once, I liked the playcalling that Brian Daboll used in the fourth quarter drive -- he mixed in Peyton Hillis runs, Joshua Cribbs lined up in the wildcat a couple of times, and then key third down throws from Delhomme to Chansi Stuckey.
The drive was going good, but on 2nd-and-6 the Browns ran a pitch play to Hillis. There seemd to be a potential big opening, except for Eric Steinbach being driven back too deep by his man, allowing the tackle to be made on Hillis for a loss. The next play was the dagger.
- The Final Dagger: On the next play, a 3rd-and-7, the Falcons brought a free blitzer. Delhomme threw in the right area (where a receiver was open near a first down), but Kroy Biermann tipped the ball high in the air, stayed with it, and intercepted it as he fell to the ground. Biermann then got up and ran 31 yards for a touchdown just before Chansi Stuckey could tackle him.
I was upset at Delhomme on the play for not going after Biermann -- did he not think he could reach the ball? I know it would've been tough, and maybe impossible, for Delhomme to catch Biermann, but the defender was on the ground when he made the pick. If Delhomme had gone after him immediately, maybe he gets a hand on him, forcing Atlanta's offense to go on the field. Who knows what would've happened from there.
- Hillis' Day: It certainly wasn't a 100-yard day for Peyton Hillis on the ground, as he finished with 10 carries for 28 yards. Considering Delhomme's ankle, it was surprising to see the Browns go pass-happy in the third quarter. There was a stretch where they threw the ball six straight times. One of those throws was a near-touchdown miss to Joshua Cribbs, but I'd still like to see the Browns commit to the running game there. If Hillis was too banged up, then give Jerome Harrison some room to run on the outside. He had 6 carries for 6 yards, but he still has the ability to break the big run.
- More Active Backs: Next week, if Hillis is healthy enough to play, I think you have to activate James Davis. Not necessarily to give him carries, but given Hillis' thigh/quad injuries, you don't want to be down to just one extra running back.
- Eric Wright Improves: After a two-game struggle, it was great to see Eric Wright back in a groove. He was in a mismatch early when Tony Gonzalez lined up wide on him, but the throw was a bit off and Wright nearly intercepted it. Wright also made a few good tackles, or at least reads on plays to hold up a player and allow other guys to jump in and make the tackle.
- The Safeties: I'm having a real difficult time determining if our safety coverage has anything to do with our cornerbacks being "beaten" or "burned" on deep plays. The FOX announcers seemed to think that on Roddy White's long touchdown over Sheldon Brown, that Abram Elam was supposed to stay home and be in the middle of the field there. Instead, Elam came up to help double team Tony Gonzalez.
- First Half Troubles for Ryan: Quarterback Matt Ryan especially struggled in the first half, going just 6-of-18 for 75 yards. Our offense played decent, but it would've been nice to build a bigger lead considering Ryan's early struggles, which had a lot to do with a combination of good coverage and a solid pass rush from Marcus Benard, Matt Roth, and company.
- Massaquoi's Catch: It was good to see Mohamed Massaquoi involved a bit more in the gameplan; so far, I haven't seen any issues with his hands this year. Unfortunately, he just barely missed getting his second foot in for a first-half touchdown. I don't think the Browns should've challenged because I don't think he had the football in his hands yet when his "first of three" feet were down.
- Missing Robiskie: While slot receiver Chansi Stuckey continues to make an impact on third down, Brian Robiskie's return game was pretty uneventful. You almost wouldn't believe he played, but you can see his jersey in the picture at the top of this post trying to chase down Biermann. He finished the game with one catch for five yards.
- Blocked Field Goal: How great was it to see another blocked field goal, this time from rookie safety T.J. Ward? That's two kicks taken off the board in the past two weeks. While Shaun Rogers isn't registering the blocks, he's probably drawing enough attention to let other guys get free.
- Special Teams Tackles: The Browns had four special teams tackles against Atlanta. The leader was Nick Sorensen with two, followed by Joe Haden and T.J. Ward having one each. Haden also made an acrobatic play to allow a Reggie Hodges punt to be downed at the one yard line. The Browns forced a three and out thanks to a nice tackle on third down by Eric Wright, but a Delhomme sack and delay of game killed the Browns' short field.
- Turner Rips Browns: I can't defend the Browns run defense after this week's game, as they gave up 140 yards on 19 carries to Michael Turner. With that said, consider this:
-55 yards on 1 run - This came at the end of the first half, but the Browns blocked the field goal, so no damage was done.
-37 yards on 3 runs - This came with under two minutes to play in the game, and the Browns down 20-10 and at times just trying to strip the football rather than "stuffing" the run.
That represented 4 carries for 92 yards that netted no real points. The rest of the game, Turner had 15 carries for 48 yards, a 3.2 YPC. Turner still deserves credit for his runs no doubt, but it didn't necessarily hurt the Browns in this game.
- More Wildcat Used: If I recall correctly, a bit more of the Wildcat was used (four times in total) with Joshua Cribbs. That included 2 runs for 11 yards, 1 pass for 10 yards, and 1 handoff to Hillis. We're going to need to use it three times as often this week against the Pittsburgh Steelers, but I probably say that type of thing every week, don't I? Cribbs had a nice 34-yard kick return in the game too to set up good field position.
- Brownies: Looking at the stat sheet, I almost forgot that Peyton Hillis did have a fumble early on, but the defense forced a quick punt...it was nice to see the Browns bring a lot less all-out blitzes, and instead focus on generating pressure from the front four or five...Shaun Rogers played apparently, but how much is the question again because he didn't register a single statistic...while I expected Delhomme to play this past Sunday based on the media reports saying he was healthier, it seemed like Colt McCoy should have still been the No. 2 quarterback.
We've already started talking about it, but next up the Browns will do battle with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Bring out the trash-talking, because despite the Browns' shortcomings at quarterback, we are going to give Ben Roethlisberger hell in his return week there's no chance that we're leaving Pittsburgh without a victory.
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Instead, Elam came up to help double team Tony Gonzalez.
If you watch this play again, you’ll see the LB covering Gonzalez dump him off to Elam and cover absolutely nothing in the flat because he didn’t know Roddy went deep, I’m assuming.
It still seemed like a bonehead play by the LB.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 12, 2010 11:19 AM EDT reply actions
I think Gocong. From the replay I saw, I could only see the number on the right hand side and it was either a 1 or a 4 (most likely a 1). gocong is 51 and costanzo is 54 and I doubt they had costanzo playing in that situation.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Gocong would sound about right.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 12, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I checked the replay on nfl.com and from what I can tell there were two LB’s in the middle of the field before the snap. Gocong is on the left and someone else with a 5x number is on the right.
Gocong ends up blitzing late and whoever the other LB is sees Gonzalez, seems to account for him and then just drifts off into no man’s land on the left side instead of staying with him.
Roth was on the line so it wasn’t him. If i’m seeing the 5x right that leaves Barton as the likely suspect (although both Maiava and Costanzo have 5x numbers).
by Monsters of the Midway on Oct 12, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
drifts off into no man’s land on the left side instead of staying with him.
Exactly.
Costanzo is strictly ST and Maiava is on IR.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 12, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
either way, it was one of our 2 ILBs.
I wasn’t looking at the beginning of the play but I tried to find the number of the guy who was guarding the TE and it seemed to be ending with a 1.
Unless there were 2 TEs on the play…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Time Wasted
I hated seeing delhomme run the clock out to end the half and the third quarter. Whether those were his decisions or the coaching staff’s, something could have been tried instead of letting time run out…I don’t get it.
Thanks, amidst all of the points of my review, I always forget to bring something up that I had wanted to. The third quarter one wasn’t as bad since we’d still have the ball and weren’t down by multiple possessions. However, to close out the first half, as discussed briefly in another thread, I’d like to see the Hail Mary try there.
Although, Atlanta could have easily taken a timeout right away and forced us to punt. They seemed a little off guard that we rushed the offense back out there after not converting the third down, and then Jake just let the clock expire. Maybe he didn’t think he could get a throw far enough or would make a stupid throw since he can’t move very well. If he got picked on a duck, all we would’ve had probably were five offensive lineman to contend with a fast defensive back and an entourage of blockers. Donovan McNabb almost got pick six’ed on his Hail Mary pass at the end of the fourth quarter versus Green Bay.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Oct 12, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Got to disagree on DLs trying to scoop the ball unless it bounces right into their laps. They aren’t used to handling balls and even if they do get up and run, there is a fair chance they get caught from behind and get the ball knocked out.
Now Barton’s recovery in Tampa: he should have gotten up and ran.
by HenryDawg on Oct 12, 2010 11:49 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Now Barton’s recovery in Tampa: he should have gotten up and ran.
No he shouldn’t of.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 12, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m of this train of thought, he went with the smart play.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Oct 12, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
seems like this has to be the coaching. mangini seems like the type of guy who would insist upon focusing on the fundamental action of recovering the fumbled ball … and at some point in the future, once they’ve done it enough, he’ll “trust” the defense enough to try to do something with a recovered fumble.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 12, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m just greedy for some defensive touchdowns, especially since Coleman is recovering these in situations where it isn’t a pile-diving situation (i.e. there aren’t ten guys jumping at it).
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Oct 12, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
and with the way our offense has been playing, we need to be a little bit greedy. we are forcing turnovers on D, but we are not having those electrifying, big turnovers that change the course of a game. we have only had one interception (out of 3) that had any sort of return. when we do this, we are relying on our offense to march down the field.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
They aren’t used to handling balls
Unless they are Shaun Smith
by da36chamberz on Oct 12, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Massaquoi’s Catch: It was good to see Mohamed Massaquoi involved a bit more in the gameplan; so far, I haven’t seen any issues with his hands this year. Unfortunately, he just barely missed getting his second foot in for a first-half touchdown. I don’t think the Browns should’ve challenged because I don’t think he had the football in his hands yet when his “first of three” feet were down.
Actually going by the NFL game book Momass has caught 9 of 20 passes targeted to him TY. Watson 23 of 35, Hillis 20 of 25, Stuckey 15 of 23, Cribbs 13 of 24. LY Momass caught 34 of 95 passes targeted to him. I cant really blame a rookie WR with the slop at WR for LY. With McCoy about to come in for the next 2 Wks or so i dont think it’ll get better for him.
Yikes, pretty bad numbers for MM. I said it at the time of the almost touchdown catch – a NFL receiver needs to be aware of dragging that last foot on that play. We seen dozens of WR do that every week.
by dgcambridge on Oct 12, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris said off his hands.
That stat is purely if he catches what is thrown in his direction.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 12, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Go back and look at the 1000000000000000000 comments I have logged on catch rate. Not really a meaningful stat.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
yes but in absence of coaches tape to break down i’ll still submit it as a decent guideline to start with. Until the NFL starts putting out coaches tape on a direct TV package (which i dont have) its better than nothing.
I don’t have tape, and I don’t have stats, but i do remember massaquoi getting a lot more looks than others downfield. Even with the best QBs, the farther away from the LOS you go, the lower the chance the pass will be completed. This is why hillis has the best ‘hands’ based on catch rate right now and harrison was the same last year.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Stop it. This argument has been beat to death, was brought back as a zombie and beat to death again.
The overall census was that it is a worthless stat.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 12, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Double dead zombie horse.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Oct 12, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d hit it.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
by Villeslgr on Oct 13, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn’t get close enough to hit it with anything but a bullet. Ever play Resident Evil? Zombie animals are nasty.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Oct 15, 2010 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
For sure. (Don’t click if your squeamish, movie gore)
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
What do you mean? I think Milla Jovovich is hot.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 16, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a fan of the movies, they twisted the storyline from the game, added in a (the) main character that never existed, changed everything, and just about everything I’ve seen in the new one’s trailer is ripped straight out of RE:5.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Oct 16, 2010 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw the first one and liked it. Probably the best of the recent zombie movies I’ve seen.
"And the 2010 National League Central Division Champs are the Cincinnati Reds!" -- Marty Brennaman
The first one was good. It was first and last good Resident Evil movie. The worst of all of them is Afterlife (the most recent one).
Still, as far as zombie flicks go, Zombieland is incredible. Also a comedy and action.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
It means nothing.
Even if the stat is accurate, Any intelligent person would take a WR who has a 50% catch rate for 100 yards and a TD over one with a 100% catch rate for -5 yards and a fumble lost.
I really don’t want to beat the already dead horse, so please do not make me.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
It’s not better than nothing because it leads to incorrect assumptions or baseless arguments.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
MoMass has also gotten a larger portion than others of worse passes. the passes thrown to wallace have not been as good of passes as the one thrown to the other players.
Thats also probably because cribbs, Hillis, and Watson are mostly getting short passes which seneca is much better at throwing on target.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
i also highly recommend: !http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/teams/stats/2010/cleveland-browns/index.html
Click on the player, then click on the splits. I’m sure that there are plenty of stats monsters that can use this. My goal is to help make DBN guys some of the smartest peeps in the SBN league for their team
Aren’t we already? I mean, we do have Rufio after all.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Oct 12, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
We already are.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 12, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
My goal is to help continue making DBN guys some of the smartest peeps in the SBN league for their team
Fixed ;)
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Oct 12, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
NFl.com, cleveland browns.com confirm Ratliff signed, Aiken released.
by discoinferno083 on Oct 12, 2010 4:55 PM EDT reply actions
You make a good point with the safeties. Right now we have Elam and Ward. Elam has been know throughout his career as more of a pass rusher / run stopper type, and we’ve all seen the Oregon highlights and watched Ward so far and he’s definitely a hard hitter / don’t go over the middle against him type. So we don’t really have that pure free safety that can read the routes and the QB. I have nothing against Elam, but Ward is part of our future and looking ahead (sorry we’re 1-4 and still in rebuilding mode) I wouldn’t mind seeing Elam go elsewhere and bring in a pass coverage type safety.
I agree. I am not a huge fan of Elam. Ward is our FS now but I see him more as our SS in a Adrian Wilson mold (style of play wise). We need that Antrel Rolle or Ed Reed; a guy at FS who can pick one off and take it to the house.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
The safeties are absolutely non playmakers in the passing game. I give Ward a pass as he is a rookie, and because he brings alot to the table in other areas. But how is it possible that in 5 games our starting safeties have exactly zero interceptions and 1 pass defensed between the 2 of them. That is absolutely ridiculous. You just cant play with 2 strong safeties and no playmaker ballhawks.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
And yes, I will prolly add in a later post that Earl Thomas would have helped significantly in this area.
Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"
are you advocating thomas over haden at 7?
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 13, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know, our defense seems to have been doing a good job without a playmaker at the safety position. having one would definitely be helpful, but I think the current play of our defense should tell you that it isn’t 100% necessary.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Oct 13, 2010 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Interceptions aren’t always the best indicator of quality pass defense. I have seen Asante Samuel consistently get ripped for playing poor D simply because he is trying to go for picks.
I am not saying our safeties have been good, but it’s an odd complaint since we have only really been badly beaten twice in the passing game, and both times it was pretty clearly from poor cornerback play.
In response to Monsters of the Midway above, only wanting the full width of the comment space:
Off of that replay it is actually kinda hard for me to figure out what our coverage/concept is.
It looks like we are in a fire zone concept: rush 5, 3 underneath zones, 3 deep zones. Typically, this is played like a cover-3:

Brown and Wright carry their men deep in the outside two deep zones. At least one of the safeties should be coming up to play an underneath zone. Sometimes teams do run a 2-deep fire zone but it does not look like we are doing this to me. This is what it would look like:

The strength of the formation changed when Atlanta shifted their TE, as long as we determine the strength by normal rules. If you look really closely at the replay at about 3 seconds, Ward is touching his helmet way off to the left of the screen. I believe this is our sign for a change in strength.


Because Ward knew the strength changed, my guess is that we were not in 2-deep or 3-deep at all, but something called Quarter-Quarter-Half. It is essentially rolling the safety to one side, putting one CB man-on-man against the deep routes on one half of the field, and having two defenders for deep routes in the other half.

I truly think Brown thinks he has help coming in the middle of the field because of his technique. He clearly wants to maintain outside leverage on White, pushing him to the middle of the field. This is the opposite of what should happen if Brown is in man-0 or if the Browns were playing an inverted 2-deep shell (i.e. if Brown had NO help deep and inside):


(notice how he widens to stay outside of White)
It also makes no sense to roll coverage away from Roddy White. So I think the problem was that the coverage/call should have been "QQH to White’s side of the field" but the safeties were playing "QQH to the strong side". These were the same side before the motion. After the motion, Brown ended up playing one, the safeties another. I don’t know who exactly to blame the miscommunication on, but my money is on Ward if I had to guess. So Ward was rolling to the defense’s left and he should have been rolling to the right.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Oct 13, 2010 1:25 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
nice post. From what it sounds like, it was a good play by atlanta. They move the TE over (gonzalez I believe) and then the ‘strong’ side changes. They get cleveland to shift the coverage over to the other side which leaves less help on white.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I am betting they saw us changing strength and noticed a pattern in how we play this. It takes one time where we run it just like they saw it on film and they get a huge play for a score.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I guess the question is if the coaching staff placed a major emphasis in Ward shutting down Gonzalez instead of helping White. If his primary focus was containing Gonzalez, then he may have made the correct choice as per guidance from the staff, and we would have to question whether or not the coaches should have been more concerned with White beating us (which is what I would have preferred.)
And this is why I come here. Thanks for such an extensive reply.
by Monsters of the Midway on Oct 13, 2010 7:17 AM EDT up reply actions
If you look really closely at the replay at about 3 seconds, Ward is touching his helmet way off to the left of the screen.
I’m trying to find this but I can’t identify Ward anywhere on the screen. He doesn’t come into view for me until after White is already in the end zone.
I definitely see the change in strength when Atlanta’s other TE shifts. But the only defender I see motioning at all appears to be the Mike LB and he is pointing in Sheldon Brown’s direction.
by Monsters of the Midway on Oct 13, 2010 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Ward’s body does not come fully into the screen. You almost have to look at his shadow. He is the safety to the top of the screen (defense’s left), I believe. He flashes in for <1 second with his hand on his helmet.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’m telling you, you need to front page these things to get them more exposure. Outstanding again.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Oct 13, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks Chris. This one was a little quick and dirty, maybe next week I’ll front page something.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
twss
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
by Villeslgr on Oct 13, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This helps clarify what the Mike LB was doing. His actions seem illogical on the how play went down but he went right where the scheme dictated.
This really goes to show me how little I understand about what’s actually happening on the field. Thanks again.
by Monsters of the Midway on Oct 13, 2010 7:26 AM EDT reply actions
reply fail :(
Should be above in Rufio’s post.
by Monsters of the Midway on Oct 13, 2010 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions
It is a Shame
I think this team has to be surprised with Hillis and Watson and the defense which has been very good, NOT GREAT, but definitely good enough to 3 and 2 if not 4 and 1 (talking about the defense play has been good enough for those records) The QUARTERBACK play has been the real trouble. At this point I would rate Wallace a couple notches if not more above Delhomme, but as it has been said Wallace is a good back up not a starter. Delhomme has been awful. This team is much better than 1-4. MUCH MUCH BETTER. I hope Mangini and Ryan get to continue their path.
Question is, is there a quarterback out there the Browns could sign or trade for (without mortgaging the ranch) that could get this team winning this year (meaning more wins from here on out than losses, not expecting a miracle) and hopefully keep the sucess going as the Browns draft a quarterback in next year’s draft? Is there any quarterback out there AVAILABLE now that the Browns could use?

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