Delhomme? Wallace? McCoy?
by emily522 on Oct 24, 2010 5:15 PM EDT
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Going into the season, the Browns management finally had a solid plan at quarterback (for once). Jake Delhomme was going to be the starter, Seneca Wallace would be the backup, and rookie Colt McCoy was going to be the third string “redshirt” and learn from Delhomme. Holmgren made it clear that McCoy would not see the field in 2010, despite everyone’s curiosity about the rookie’s abilities at the NFL level. However, with some exceptions, many agreed that a year of sitting was best for him and the team.
Of course, plans don’t always work out the way you want them to.
When the Browns signed Delhomme, there were mixed emotions. Some were okay with the move, but others (B19K comes to mind) adamantly opposed it. In the preseason, many Browns fans, including myself, were optimistic about Delhomme’s abilities to at least manage the game, make the necessary throws, and help the Browns win some games. Delhomme completed 79.2% of his passes in the preseason with 2 TDs and 0 INTs. Could the struggling Delhomme, who threw 8 TDs and 18 INTs in his final season with Carolina before being benched for Matt Moore, revitalize his career in Cleveland?
Well, looking at Delhomme’s stats, it hasn’t been pretty. While he did get injured during the opener, it’s still ugly. In 2 games played, Delhomme had a 55% completion percentage, 1 TD, and 4 INTs, making for a QB rating of 48.2. Of course, the injury did account for some of his poor play. And when Delhomme was injured against Tampa Bay, Seneca Wallace had to take over as the starter.
In 5 games, Wallace completed 63% of his passes with 4 TD and 2 INTs, giving him a QB rating of 88.5. His scrambling abilities helped him to extend plays, and he was giving the Browns a better chance to win than Delhomme probably could. So keeping Wallace as our starter didn’t sound like a bad idea, right? Well, the injury history of this team crept up on us again, and Wallace was injured against the Falcons as well.
Five games and two quarterbacks later, Colt McCoy became the only viable starter against the Steelers. So, there the Browns were, a 1-4 team getting ready to head into Pittsburgh with a rookie QB making his first career start. The same QB they planned on sitting for a year or two. The media and the majority of Browns fans prepared for the absolute worst. Rotoworld, which we all know and love, even likened Colt to a lamb getting ready to be slaughtered. So we all held our breath as he lined up under center at Heinz Field for the first time.
Despite the loss, McCoy surprised many. He looked confident, poised, and his much talked about accuracy showed throughout the game. He finished the day 23-33 with 281 yards, 1 TD, and 2 INTs (one of which should have been a catch). This wasn’t against a bottom ranked deense, this was against the “steel curtain”. And with Delhomme and Wallace still injured, McCoy had to start today against the Saints as well. His numbers were pedestrian: 9-16, 74 yards, 0 TDs or INTs. However, McCoy made good throws (some of which were dropped) and didn’t put the Browns in any poor situations.
Now it’s the bye week and this organization has some thinking to do. With Delhomme and Wallace getting healthy soon, who do you start? Delhomme and Wallace aren’t part of this team’s future. Delhomme is aging, and Seneca is a permanent backup. Despite Colt’s two decent games, we still don’t know if he’s the answer. We still have to wonder if we should go for a QB in the first round of the draft or stick with Colt in 2011. So wouldn’t it make sense to start him the rest of the way in order to clarify if he’s part of this team’s future as well?
Sound off, Browns fans.
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No reason to apologize, it was a good breakdown. Well done.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 24, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t see either Delhomme or Wallace giving us a better chance to win than McCoy, not to mention I would like to get more chances to evaluate him. Basically, I don’t see how an argument against starting McCoy could possibly hold water.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
My only concern is that McCoy playing was never intended this season and was the result of injuries. Now that the two injured guys will be returning, they may want to get back to their original plan.
Tom Brady was never supposed to start in the 2001 season either (or ever really).
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 24, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, to me, the argument that he wasn’t supposed to play so will now go back to the bench is a worthless one.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
It’d be hard to criticize Mangini and the coaching staff after what we saw today, but I will definitely be scratching my head if, come the 7th, McCoy is back on the bench.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
What did you see today? He still only threw for 74 yards
I met a fairy today that granted me one wish. "I want to live forever," I said. "Sorry" said the fairy, "I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"
"Fine" I said, "I want to die after the Browns win the Super Bowl !"
"You crafty bastard," said the fairy.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 24, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
He managed the game, and do we really expect Delhomme or Wallace to do anything different than that?
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
by Browns town on Oct 24, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn’t throw any picks, and he showed that he can throw deep.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Oct 24, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
he threw 14 passes. He wasn’t given the chance to throw any picks. And he can throw deep so he’s a starting QB? I can throw the ball 40 yards at least and I suck
I met a fairy today that granted me one wish. "I want to live forever," I said. "Sorry" said the fairy, "I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"
"Fine" I said, "I want to die after the Browns win the Super Bowl !"
"You crafty bastard," said the fairy.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 25, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Nothing anyone says is going to make you see any different so why even ask questions? I saw the glass as half full and you saw it as completely empty. I never said he should be the starting QB because he made one throw (accurately) down field. I think he should be the starting QB so we can evaluate the kid, but in Holmgren we trust, and if he says sit him, I have no problem.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Oct 25, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Fans are seeing a drop of water in the glass and are pretending like it’s enough for nourishment. I’m looking at it for what it is….absolutely nothing so far. We have gotten to the point where our QB is the QB of the future because he didn’t go out there and embarrass himself?
And I don’t understand why people are still putting so much faith in Holmgren. He isn’t doing anything to contribute to the development of anyone on the team. He’s a babysitter; so if colt or anyone else turns out to be anything don’t think it’s because of him.
I met a fairy today that granted me one wish. "I want to live forever," I said. "Sorry" said the fairy, "I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"
"Fine" I said, "I want to die after the Browns win the Super Bowl !"
"You crafty bastard," said the fairy.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 25, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
We have gotten to the point where our QB is the QB of the future because he didn’t go out there and embarrass himself?
I don’t think anyone is calling McCoy the QB of the future. I think we’re saying that we’d like to give him more experience in games so we can see if he can become one some day. He’s certainly not there yet, and I think everyone here knows that.
And I don’t understand why people are still putting so much faith in Holmgren. He isn’t doing anything to contribute to the development of anyone on the team.
How do you know that? Are you in the teams meetings and at practices? Do you know how much Holmgren talks to the coaches and to the players? How can you assume that you know what Holmgren is and isn’t doing with the team?
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 25, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
How do you know that? Are you in the teams meetings and at practices? Do you know how much Holmgren talks to the coaches and to the players? How can you assume that you know what Holmgren is and isn’t doing with the team?
Because he said it??
All throughout the draft whenever he was interviewed he spoke on how he gave total control to Heckert and Mangini
So you tell me how a person who didn’t draft a player, and isn’t coaching him, is somehow the reason why he will be a success one day?
I met a fairy today that granted me one wish. "I want to live forever," I said. "Sorry" said the fairy, "I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"
"Fine" I said, "I want to die after the Browns win the Super Bowl !"
"You crafty bastard," said the fairy.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 25, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
uhh, wrong:
“Then,’’ Holmgren said, laughing, "the fates were telling me something. We had to pick [McCoy]. I said to Tom, ’Let’s pull the trigger.’ I tried to run this draft the way Ron Wolf used to in Green Bay. Everyone contributed. But I kind of pulled rank a little bit. I said, ’Let’s do this.‘’’
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 25, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
facts, who needs ’em!
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Oct 25, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Fans are seeing a drop of water in the glass and are pretending like it’s enough for nourishment.
No, that’s just what you convince yourself of so you justify this kind of sh*t.
Have fun wallowing around in your own melancholy.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
by Simmsinns on Oct 25, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I’m looking at it for what it is….absolutely nothing so far. We have gotten to the point where our QB is the QB of the future because he didn’t go out there and embarrass himself?
The kid went 23/33 for 280yds against the Steelers Defense (Enough Said)
He only went 9/16 for 74yds against the Saints, but without any turnovers (Game Management)
These are all far from doing nothing, and as a rookie nonetheless. Nobody has said (even realmccoy) that he is the man yet. However, he is showing positive signs that he could be.
And I don’t understand why people are still putting so much faith in Holmgren. He isn’t doing anything to contribute to the development of anyone on the team.
I’ve read several articles, as well as heard interviews, that Colt has supposedly went into Holmgren’s office and talked strategy and general QB coaching. I’m not sure why you assume Holmgren is just sitting in is office babysitting. He probably helps out anytime he can with player development.
You should really consider seeing a psychologist to manage your constant negativity and spitefulness. I feel it hinders you often.
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
The kid went 23/33 for 280yds against the Steelers Defense
Doesn’t mean anything. Not only were the steelers playing against the run the entire game, but they’re not un-human just because they’re good. Fitzpatrick just threw for almost 400 yards and 4 TD’s against the Raven’s defense. Given the right circumstances, anyone can make a stance against any team.
He only went 9/16 for 74yds against the Saints, but without any turnovers
He wasn’t given enough autonomy to have the chance to throw any ints. I think of the coaches not having enough faith in him to attempt to throw for more than 1/4 of what the opposing QB did speaks more on him that his “spacktacular” 74 yards.
And plus you’re exaggerating the Saint anyway. They kinda suck this year, regardless if they won the SB or not..
Colt has supposedly went into Holmgren’s office and talked strategy and general QB coaching.
yea, I’m sure a pep-talk really encourages him to go out and make himself into the best QB in the league. Holmgren should charge every team in the league for a QB pep talk.
I met a fairy today that granted me one wish. "I want to live forever," I said. "Sorry" said the fairy, "I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"
"Fine" I said, "I want to die after the Browns win the Super Bowl !"
"You crafty bastard," said the fairy.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 25, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
so when he has good stats, it’s meaningless, and when he has “bad” stats it’s b/c he’s not good? is that the summary?
just trying to get a hold of your (faulty) logic.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 25, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the steelers playing against the run the entire game
Hyperbole.
He wasn’t given enough autonomy to have the chance to throw any ints.
More hyperbole. It only takes one throw to give up a pick.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Oct 26, 2010 3:21 AM EDT up reply actions
He threw a nice 50 yard pass to Cribbs which resulted in the interference call. The coverage was good (up until the interference) so a bad throw could have easily resulted in a pick.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 26, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
And that’s just one example.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 26, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
talked strategy and general QB coaching
How is that a “pep talk” — it sounds like coaching to me.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 26, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
As Brad and Kimble mentioned, you are way off base. Holmgren has the best QB coaching credentials on the planet and we know that he has had conversations with McCoy. Considering this, I’d say the burden is on you to show why you don’t think he contributing to McCoy’s development.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 25, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
by Villeslgr on Oct 25, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
JaMarcus russel can throw the ball 70 yards , and he really sucks!!!!
Lifes A Dance, You Learn As You Go!
by findlaybrownslover on Oct 25, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
he showed the fact that he can handle the position of NFL QB and had the poise was maybe not a 1 game fluke.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
This is ridiculous, how has he shown that?
All I see is people justifying his play by saying he played with “poise”. Everyone is using that word and probably couldn’t tell me what it even means, let alone how it correlates to a starting NFL QB.
Brady Quinn played with “poise” his first game. So did Jemarcus Russell, Alex Smith, JP Losman, and pretty much every rookie QB who isn’t running for their life. And now he’s has proven something by running a pedestrian offense, throwing for less yards than Colston had receiving, dumping the ball off and playing with a lead?
I’m so convinced McCoy is the QB of the future for this team, for doing yesterday what I could have done given the chance!
I met a fairy today that granted me one wish. "I want to live forever," I said. "Sorry" said the fairy, "I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"
"Fine" I said, "I want to die after the Browns win the Super Bowl !"
"You crafty bastard," said the fairy.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 25, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
1. I get tired of people saying “I could have done what (insert name of pro athlete here) did.” No you couldn’t have. Stop it.
2. If you really believe that Brady Quinn, at any point in his career, looked like Colt McCoy did in the last 2 games, I don’t know what else to say to you. Quinn had a great game against an awful Detroit team, a decent game against an average Denver team. Never, even in those games, did he seem to “get it” like McCoy has.
What does “get it” mean?
All I’ve heard from damage controlling browns fans is cliche’s that really don’t mean anything. How did Colt “get it” by throwing 2 int? How does Colt “get it” by not being asked to throw more than 5 yards? How didn’t Brady “get it” specifically and how do you know when a player “get it” and when one doesn’t?
You talk about them getting it but i don’t even think you “get it”
I met a fairy today that granted me one wish. "I want to live forever," I said. "Sorry" said the fairy, "I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"
"Fine" I said, "I want to die after the Browns win the Super Bowl !"
"You crafty bastard," said the fairy.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 25, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Negative for the sake of being negative I bet you are a joy to be around in real life……
“get it” means he is not running around trying to figure out what he needs to do witht he football and no you could not do what he did this past weekend or you would not be talking about how you could do it you would be doing it!
by Brownsfan4ever on Oct 25, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
So are yo saying that is what Quinn was doing when he first started? Once again you’re essentially saying McCoy had poise because he didn’t look like he never picked up a football before. I don’t think any profession football player making millions a year will look like that regardless if he sucks or not.
I met a fairy today that granted me one wish. "I want to live forever," I said. "Sorry" said the fairy, "I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"
"Fine" I said, "I want to die after the Browns win the Super Bowl !"
"You crafty bastard," said the fairy.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 25, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I get tired of people saying "I could have done what (insert name of pro athlete here) did."
Without getting into the broader debate, let me just endorse this statement wholeheartedly. Saying you “could have done X” is especially ridiculous when it comes to the NFL, and especially at the QB position. Most of us would die — very close to literally — if six or seven NFL defenders rushed to get us. We couldn’t even do what Brady Quinn could do.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 25, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, brady quinn and Russell did show some poise their first game. thats why I said it showed it maybe wasn’t a fluke. with those guys it was and sometimes it is, and thats why I had a “wait and see” attitude.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Brady’s “poise” was hit and miss. It was never consistent. McCoy has shown that for his first two games it is consistent with him. Will it continue remains to be seen. I’m sorry, but he did just fine yesterday. He was only asked to throw 16x, that is the OC making play calls. He managed the game when we had a lead, which is all you need from a QB at that point.
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
First of all you have to define what “poise” is. Is poise not making mistakes? Well he threw two interceptions the first game, and didn’t throw enough to second to have the chance to throw any INT’s. Is poise running the plays? Well Quinn ran the plays just as well his first couple of starts, and was given MUCH more control and responsibility. Is poise showing confidence? Well Quinn showed just as much confidence his first two starts as McCoy did, if not more for the fact that he knew the browns mortgaged their future for him. So now all I continue to hear is irrelevant.
I met a fairy today that granted me one wish. "I want to live forever," I said. "Sorry" said the fairy, "I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"
"Fine" I said, "I want to die after the Browns win the Super Bowl !"
"You crafty bastard," said the fairy.
by The Licensed Pessimist on Oct 25, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
quinn’s “first starts” were in year 3. not week 6.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 25, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
quinn’s "first starts" were in year 3. not week 6.
Well, actually, his first starts were in the middle of his second year, but your point still stands.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 27, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
He kept us in front of the chains and didn’t turn the ball over. Pretty much exactly what everyone wanted from Delhomme and Wallace.
In his second start, on the road at the defending Super Bowl Champs in his second start.
If that is something you can’t find any good in, you just enjoy being unhappy.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 25, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
He should earn the starting job, not back in to it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I said in another thread that I was sticking to 11-5 until the math proved me wrong, but that was in fun. Realistically I don’t expect the Browns to see the post season this year. Given that we don’t have to worry about those stakes, the question of who to start, to me, becomes an exercise in deciding what will be best for the team long term.
Getting more wins than last year would certainly be a psychological boost, but does starting Delhomme or Wallace significantly increase the odds of that happening? I’m not so sure it does. McCoy has shown so far, albeit in limited action, that he can make smart decisions, can throw accurately, and doesn’t seem to get flustered easily.
On the other hand we saw Delhomme make several throws in the Tampa game before his injury that missed being interceptions only because the DBs in coverage were underachieving. Edge: McCoy. We saw Wallace run out of bounds behind the LoS and consistently fail to make accurate throws to receivers down the sideline. Edge McCoy.
I won’t deny that we have a very limited body of work to judge him on, but the data that we do have looks to me to be enough to argue that he has earned another start at least – which will give Delhomme and Wallace another week to heal – to amass more data and look for consistencies, and that will allow for sounder judgements in looking towards the future.
First paragraph agree.
It isn’t that Colt doesn’t deserve a start, its that he might not deserve it over Delhomme.
In the NFL you aren’t supposed to lose your job to injury. Once you come back, you are supposed to walk back in to your starting job unless you were clearly outperformed (Tom Brady). Delhomme is a longtime vet, a pro bowler, and he’s played in the super bowl. For a rookie to take his job away mostly because of injury doesn’t make me feel that Colt has truly earned it.
Maybe he played better, but he would need to have thrown for over 200, and had a positive TD:INT ratio against the Saints for me to feel like he really earned the job. If Colt is in any way ever questioned as the leader and as the best QB for the team—even in the back of a teammate’s mind I think that does more of a disservice to his career than sitting him does.
And practices count, too. And of course none of us can speak to either’s performances there.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
So the fact that he threw for nearly 300 yards against PIT just gets thrown out the window? He didn’t have gaudy numbers for NO, but he took care of the football. Something we’ve yet to see our other QBs do. We’ve also seen that he can throw an accurate deep ball, something else I haven’t seen our other QBs do.
No, it doesn’t go out the window, Mr. facetious.
Our other QBs were often asked to play entirely different roles in the offense (Delhomme). When they threw as much as Colt did at pittsburgh, they ended up with INTs. So did Colt. Seneca has played twice as many games and thrown the ball twice as many times and he has the same number of interceptions as McCoy.
I thought McCoy’s play against pittsburgh was pretty good, all things considered. I thought his play at New Orleans was not as good. Neither game blew me away to the point where Colt HAS to be the starter from here on out. Nothing I’ve seen tells me he is definitely the best QB on the team right now, that he has earned the job, or that we definitely shouldn’t draft a QB this April.
I like him and he’s showing some promise, but that’s all it is at this point.
His deep ball wasn’t exactly the epitome of accuracy in the Saints game. The thing he did well was underthrow vs. overthrow. In that situation with the DB out of phase, you want the underthrow if the pass has to be off. But the pass was off. Ideally, that ball drops right down into Cribbs’ breadbasket where the defender can’t make a play on it. He had a few nice deeper throws in the pitt game. He isn’t Peyton, and I believe Delhomme can make those same throws.
Maybe he is the QB of the future, but the future isn’t now.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
/reality check
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Oct 27, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
We’re 2-5 and you’re worried about the present? Colt and Seneca’s play has looked mighty similar minus the stupid mistakes with Colt. He has the same number of interceptions sure, but he’s a rookie who’s played in 2 games now and both of his interceptions came against the best defense in the league.
Seneca has hit his ceiling. Colt can only go up. It’s not like we are looking torwards playoffs.
I know you’re being humorous, but let’s be honest. We’re in a division with the Ravens and Steelers. We won’t win the division, and the team that does will most likely have a wild card birth. Even if they don’t the AFC Wild Card race looks like its going to be pretty tight this year.
This also makes me wonder, how many of say the past 10 seasons has the AFC North had more than 1 team in the playoffs?
2001-2002 Ravens Steelers
2002-2003 Steelers Browns
2005-2006 Steelers Bengals
2008-2009 Ravens Steelers
2009-2010 Ravens Bengals
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
So 5 out of the past 9 seasons? I wonder if any other divisions can say that. Certainly makes a case for the toughest division in football.
Late 80’s, we used to consistently put 3 of the 4 teams in the old AFC Central into the playoffs — usually us, Cinci & Houston, but then the Steelers would sometimes get in for Cinci or Houston.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 28, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I do tend to be a little more optimistic than most, but in all honesty, I don’t think we probably will end up making the playoffs. I was mostly saying that to be humorous. But… You never know :) I like to think that when I root for my Browns, I am rooting along with the Almighty because He is a Browns fan. So it’s unlikely we make the playoffs, but a possibility :)
Oh, and question- How do the playoffs work? I was under the impression that the team that wins the division makes the playoffs no matter what and then whichever team has the best record out of all the non-division winners is the wildcard team. Is that not the case?
We won’t win the division, and the team that does will most likely have a wild card birth.
I think this is where the confusion came from.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Oct 28, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
10-6 baby!
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Oct 27, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, no need for pessimism — 11-5 all the way!
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 28, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You are misinterpreting what I say.
This year is probably all about improvement: the chance that we make the playoffs is very, very small.
But earning the job whenever he becomes the starter is the best thing for Colt’s future (if he has one).
Colt can and will improve, and his continued development is the only shot at a franchise QB we have on our current roster.
But making him earn his job (not walk into it due to injury) is what will help his development the most. In case you don’t remember, Holmgren’s plan was to sit him this entire year.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I think Seneca is the better option to start over Jake.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Oct 27, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s fine, and from what we’ve seen on the field so far it’s an informed opinion. I am of the opinion that Jake hasn’t gotten enough healthy time out these for us to really know. Practices and things we as fans can’t really know for sure would factor into my decision if I were making it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
That is absolutely true. We’ve only seen 2 quarters of healthy Delhomme.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Oct 27, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Jake Delhomme getting his job back is wasting time.
As we all know this year is all about the future. We all expected that McCoy wouldn’t start because he wasn’t ready, but he has looked decent in two of the toughest road venues in the NFL.
I don’t care if he isn’t better than Delhomme or Wallace right now (I happen to believe he is), if him playing this year makes him better in the future, I am all for it.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 27, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m with you and I would add to that, if you have the chance to evaluate the kid so we have a little more knowledge on what positions we need in next years draft, then leave him in. I also think based on his only two games, he is just as good as the other two.
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
I don’t really care that he is the best QB now for the sake of winning games this year. Screw this year.
I care that he is the best QB whenever he takes the reins permanently (insofar as that word exists in the NFL) he does so with authority. That he earns the job. Not that I think Colt has character issues (quite the opposite) but I think this is the way for him to become a leader by earning the respect of his teammates.
Part of setting Colt up in the right situation is allowing this to happen. Even if a veteran in that locker room is the ultimate team player, he will want to win games because he is a competitor. If there is even a shadow of a doubt that a rookie playing the most important position on the field is hurting the W-L record, I don’t think that’s the best thing for Colt and the situation for him to lead.
Everyone earns their job, everyone has to keep earning their job once they’ve earned their job.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I agree with the bit about players earning their jobs. The players have to know that if they want to get on the field, it’s going to take more than bringing the coach an apple or not sleeping with his wife or whatever. But this is where it gets really hard.
Last year a lot of people seemed to be in agreement that it was hard to get a clear evaluation of the receivers we had because of the QB play. This year I’ve read several comments that suggest (or flat out state) that or WR play is pretty poor, which should make it just as hard to get a good read on the QBs.
But getting back to who should start, I think the Browns could get away with saying that they want to give Delhomme and Wallace another week to heal “because those ankle injuries can be tricky and we don’t want to re-injure them just as they’re getting better.” That would allow them to see a bit more of McCoy’s work as they are pondering draft strategies and trades in the off season.
I don’t think this is about what Mangini says; I don’t think the media appearance is what is important. The players know how healthy they are and what the doctors are telling them. I think the locker room’s impression of this is much more important.
But you are right there might be a way they can do that with regards to the locker room.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
i feel like the “who gives us the best chance to win” question is, at worst, unanswered b/w these 3. considering the fact that emily is right about the limited futures w/ this organization for jake and wallace, and the dire need to answer the quarterback question on this team, i just can’t see a good reason not to start mccoy. we can evaluate as we go, of course, but it seems like you have to stick with him.
Irony?
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 25, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
yes, irony … and also a theme that’s been used around here (and around letsgotribe) a few times.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 25, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
1 was intentional. i tried to put more in but the formatting looked like it would be screwy (hat tip to the preview button)
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 25, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I just hope he gets an NFL snap before his career is over.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Oct 24, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
This may be front page worthy.
Also, if you can keep writing like this, I vote for you to possibly be the first woman minion on SBN!
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 24, 2010 10:45 PM EDT reply actions
Weren’t you a minion?
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Oct 24, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
Heyo!
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Oct 24, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Zing!
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Oct 24, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, there goes my Sunday.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 24, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
There are some of us who voted for Seneca or Jake. To give our minority a voice, I really don’t know who should start. BUT, we saw how well Colt performed last week after watching from the sidelines for the first four games. Imagine how well he could play after watching from the sidelines for the remaining 9 games.
I’m not trying to be completely facetious. I will be happy to watch Colt play. I just don’t know if it might be better for Colt’s long-term development to learn by watching – and I think there are only about 10 people who can give a definitive answer I would trust; the rest are simply talking heads who have never coached up a HOF QB.
We have a strong indication that the kid has the head to make it in the league, and if it is best for him to learn the intricacies from the sideline then so be it. In other words, I won’t be crying bloody murder if Jake returns to the starting job in two weeks. Colt has gotten his taste for blood. It might be good to learn a little more about the hunt from an old veteran.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
well stated, and very fair. i, too, will trust holmgren et al to make the right decision for colt’s development. an important factor, i would imagine, is establishing whether or not the browns need to use a high draft pick on one of these potential “franchise” qb’s entering the draft this year.
however, it seems hard for me to believe that a qb can learn appreciably more watching games than he can playing in them. tape study, etc., i’m all for that. but there’s no learning like experience, at least in my opinion. and that’s what i’ll tell mike holmgren when he calls me…
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 25, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
So basically, Colt blew his load last week and needs time to get ready to go again. Eh… not buyin.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
no, thats not what he’s saying. He’s saying it still might be better for Colt’s long term development to sit the rest of the season.
I voted for Colt to start, but I won’t be angry if they go with someone else.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Oct 25, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll only be angry if we go with Jake. I’ll be disappointed if we go with Seneca. I’ll be happy if we go with Colt.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
i tend to agree with you. at this point the qb that gives the team the best chance to win is up in the air, and colt’s “on a roll” (is 1 a streak?) right now, so you may as well stick with him.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 25, 2010 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I really don’t think Jake would be as bad healthy as he’s been hurt, but I can’t really prove that, so we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
I also have a much lower opinion of Seneca Wallace than most other people here.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Oct 25, 2010 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
These points are all fair, but I believe that if a QB is protected enough and surrounded by decent playmakers, the best place for them to learn is on the playing field.
Even if we go to Delhomme, I hope that McCoy can get a couple of pre-scripted series in.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 25, 2010 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be nice if we had playmakers other than Hillis and Cribbs – and they really aren’t playmakers in a sense that they can make one play to change te game.
That’s as far as I will go down this path of pessimism and negativity. Before this goes any further, I’m very excited by what Colt has shown and I really think he will be the most fun and enjoyable as a fan to watch.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Oct 26, 2010 9:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
they can make one play to change te game
doesn’t this define josh cribbs’ career so far?
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 26, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
separate qb controversy topic … how could playing matt leinart this year possibly have been worse than the derek anderson / max hall merry-go-round in arizona? larry fitz has got to be thrilled…
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 24, 2010 11:58 PM EDT reply actions
Yup.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 25, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I lost a lot of respect for the Arizona coaching staff/front office because of this. I don’t think Leinert is good and I think Anderson is a joke, but this was handled terribly. Awful way to attempt to replace your HOF QB- by cutting the guy groomed to replace him before the season.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Yeah, Leinhart seemed to get screwed over by the Cardinals. The coaches must have really not like what they saw from him, either with his attitude or work ethic or something, to let him go like that without a solid replacement.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 25, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
This, but even worse. Of all of Anderson’s deficiencies, I thought his lackadaisical attitude was one of the more understated. I just don’t buy that it was work-ethic related. I feel pretty comfortable in my assessment in Anderson, and for Arizona to flat out give him the starting job with only an undrafted rookie behind him was irresponsible. Especially when you had another feasible, if not great, option. Especially when you were a super bowl contender just a year ago.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 25, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Leinart’s base salary for 2010 was $2.5 Million. If he takes 55% of the snaps in 2010, his base rises by $8.5 Million in 2011. If he takes 70% of the snaps in 2010, his base rises by 11 Million.
That’s a lot of money. The Cards decided he wasn’t worth it. I can’t say I blame them.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Oct 25, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point. I didn’t realize his salary was so dependent on playing time.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 25, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a textbook example of a bad contract. Low on guaranteed money, high on easy to trip escalators (like the extra $15 Million he got at the end of his rookie season for taking 45% of the snaps on offense).
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Oct 26, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
So what? It’s not like there was a cap, and could it have been any worse than playing DA? (The answer to that question is no.)
I don’t think you hand a guy 10+ if you think he sucks, cap or not. This was my argument against playing Quinn last year. Bad teams pay bad players a lot of money because of the “it’s not my money” attitude.
Right. Salary cap or not, no owner wants to spend $10 million on a player if he’s going to suck when that money could be used other places. Every owner, no matter how rich he is, only has a finite amount of money to spend on the team.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 26, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
very good point.
still feels like you can establish whether he’d be worth it or not through, say, 7 games, no? especially since he’s been in your offense for the last several years. i was just surprised, as RK points out, that they punted on the guy for DA and the gnome from BYU. definitely not saying leinart is a hall of famer (or even a matt cassel…)
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 25, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. If they had as low an opinion of Leinert as it appears they did, they absolutely had to realize it before now. Warner retiring wasn’t a shock and he was 900 years old anyway. Put it this way, the Browns had the worse QB depth chart in the league from 2008-09. Right now, they have 3 better QB options than the Cardinals do.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 26, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
The chance of spending $6 M, in an uncapped year, trying to salvage whats left of what was a top 5 team in the NFC would be worth it.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 26, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I tend to think they had enough reason to evaluate that he just is not good. Whisenhunt is a good coach, he wouldn’t cut Leinart if there was any chance that he would have been fine.
That’s what I’m thinking. He’s been there a few years, and they had seen him in practices and preseason games and in film room and meetings and everywhere else, so there must have been something about him, either with his talent or attitude or anything else, that made them decide he wasn’t going to ever become a good QB.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 26, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I went with McCoy. he managed the game, didn’t make any really bad decisions, and was pretty accurate again.
also, I can’t stress enough how important I think it is to figure out if we need to be looking at QB in the next draft. After 2 games of Colt, we have promise; after 9 more games of Colt, we’ll likely have the answer one way or another.
I think we look QB if Holmgren can identify someone that could be a franchise QB regardless of how McCoy plays. Not that I don’t think McCoy can be the guy, but we won’t have a definitive answer after this season and we should never let ourselves get in the way of ourselves looking for a franchise QB.
This is probably correct. Holmgren collects QBs. He drafted a half dozen when he had Favre (including Detmer, Brunell and Hasselback) and he had Steve Young backing up Montana for years.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Oct 25, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
but we won’t have a definitive answer after this season
McCoy sucks…decision made
McCoy excels…decision made
I’m not sure why you think we wouldn’t have a definitive answer after this season.
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
Because even great QBs can have terrible Rookie seasons. Troy Aikman comes to mind immediately.
"My mother always told me: ‘You will see the light of people when they hit adversity. You’ll get a good sense of their character." - Ironic words from LeBron James
For the love of Joe Thomas.....
by North Coast Flea on Oct 25, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
the weapons around Aikman were also flat out terrible. No good WRs, a Porus O-Line, and no running game…Similar to Josh Freeman last year. Now Freeman has better weapons around him and actually is in a position to succeed (not trying to compare the 2, just their situations)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
And obviously the truth lies somewhere in the middle for McCoy. He has a pretty good line, good running game, good TEs, questionable coordinator, and nothing at WR… at all.
Kimble, maybe you were being facetious, but it is pretty clear to me that McCoy, on this team, is not going to suck, nor “excel”.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
I agree. he has a much better line than these guys. I think his situation does lie similar to what sanchez had last year except much less at WR. there, you had a good running game, a good O-Line and a very solid TE…or maybe Flacco his first year.
granted, these guys did have one good WR, but If colt can be at least as good as Sanchez was, i will be pleasantly surprised.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
(I happen to think McCoy could easily do better than Sanchez, but I happen to think Sanchez was terrible last year. Like it may have been the worst season ever by a QB that played in a conference championship game.) But, I get your attempt at finding a comparison.
And whether it is Aikman or Sanchez or Flacco, the point is none of these guys were clearly awesome or clearly great their first year. They played for the exposure and because their coaches thought it was the best thing for their development.
If McCoy continues to play after Delhomme and Wallace are healthy, this is the only reason why.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 25, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally agree. Very few QBs do great their first year in the league (Flacco and Matt Ryan were the exception). Many end up being somewhere around where colt is (like a Bradford).
I am totally in favor of him playing if they think its the best thing for his development.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
ok, I voted for Colt. Why? Because this season is shot, just like last year and the year before.
Now, to facts; the browns line is better than we have seen in years. This line is not the quarter back killing line of the past. Jake and Senaca are not going to lead this team to a superbowl and neither is Colt. But some day maybe Colt will, who knows.
The worst case is we draft another QB next year, the best case is we find out we don’t need to
Very well put.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 25, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
On a side note, has Vickers ever made a clean catch?
Every time we throw him the ball it looks like it is covered in grease.
There’s a reason he is a blocking fullback . . .
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Oct 25, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he graduated from Braylon’s Pass Catching Camp.
Or his favorite movie is Drop Zone.
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Oct 25, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Good thing is, when he does finally make a good catch, the D won’t be ready for it.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 25, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
saving it for the Super Bowl
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?
by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
They canned these guys for Bill Cowher.
Stupid.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 28, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I voted for Delhomme.
I want Colt to earn this job. I honestly think bumping him back down to #2 for a little might help him long-term. He has film of himself to watch. He can get some real reps in practice instead of “mental reps”. He will have had a taste of playing time and he will want to earn more, not that he doesn’t already.
A part of me would like to see us get a few quality WRs out there (or at least put Evan Moore on the field) before we continue to play Colt. Another part of me doesn’t want to wait that long.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
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