Browns Pro Bowlers
by Cursor on Oct 27, 2010 9:41 PM EDT
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PrintI've seen a lot of improvement in this year's Browns compared to last year's team. A lot of new faces have had an impact on our team. Let's do our part in honoring our outstanding players and voting them into the Pro Bowl. So who does everyone think are sure to be in the Pro Bowl or worthy of the Pro Bowl? Mine: Peyton Hillis, Lawrence Vickers, Joe Thomas, Ahtyba Rubin, Scott Fujita, T.J. Ward, Reggie Hodges, and J. Cribbs.
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Hillis? I like him and all, but he’s 17th in the NFL in rushing yards and averages a good, but not great, 4.4 yards per carry. He’s definitely not worthy of the Pro Bowl (at least not yet).
And we’re not getting 5 Pro Bowlers, not even close.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 27, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Remember BB. The Pro Bowl is about voting, not stats.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 27, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What does that even mean?
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 27, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like him and all, but he’s 17th in the NFL in rushing yards and averages a good, but not great, 4.4 yards per carry.
Popularity has just about as much to do with the Pro Bowl as stats if not more.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 27, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, first of all, the voting is done by a combination of players, coaches, and fans, so it’s not just about who is popular with the fans like the other sports’ All Star games. The players and coaches usually know who the best players are, and they certainly use stats as part of the argument.
Secondly, Hillis isn’t exactly a popular player anyways, so I really don’t know what your point was with that comment. Are you trying to argue that Hillis should be in the Pro Bowl despite his average stats? Or are you saying that he’ll get in because you think he’s popular? Or are you just disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable like you often do.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 27, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t think it is TOTALLY unrealistic to think that he might get in because of popularity. Especially if he starts running wild when the schedule gets a little less brutal than it has been recently.
Maybe I’m off the mark and going crazy, but it seems like most of the positive stuff the media has to say about the Browns has centered around Hillis and the run game. And did you see that pic of him on ESPN.com after we beat the Saints? That picture was BOSS. Had to raise his national popularity.
In the end, I don’t think it will happen. But I don’t think it’s totally outside the realm of possibility.
AFC is going to be loaded at RB though.
CJ, McFadden, Foster, MJD, Mendenhall, LT and Jamal Charles are all in the running as well.
Probably who can stay healthy best.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 27, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
MJD is not having a Pro Bowl year yet. That could change, though. The Jax defense is so awful that they put the offense in such a hole early that they can’t run the ball after midway through the second quarter.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Oct 28, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Or are you just disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable like you often do.
Always have to throw that in there don’t you?
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 27, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I really don’t know what the point is of your comments. I’m not sure if you’re actually trying to make a point or if you’re arguing just to be argumentative, because you do that all the time and it’s hard to tell when you actually have a point and when you don’t.
But I take it from the fact that you didn’t answer my questions that you were just being argumentative, so please stop. It’s very annoying to everyone (and you do it to everyone, not just me).
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 28, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Okay, I want to know who keeps following you around just to rec you everytime you comment me and also, don’t antagonize me or bait me and we won’t have a problem.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 28, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t bait you. Stop making stupid, pointless or irrelevent comments and we won’t have a problem.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 28, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
What does that even mean?
Or are you just disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable like you often do.
I don’t bait you. Stop making stupid, pointless or irrelevent comments and we won’t have a problem.
Sure you don’t. I made a relevant comment that you twisted to make it seem like I was just talking crap which you always try to say. I say you just stop caring what I say and we won’t have a problem. You say that a lot and obviously it doesn’t stick. Doubt I’ll stop anytime soon. Some others are fine with how I talk, it’s not like I’m alone.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 28, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, I’m not going to stop caring what you say, because your comments are a reflection of this blog and my job is to make this blog as best as possible. Comments like the ones you made the other day to Bernie — where you needlessly attacked him in a lame attempt at a joke — are not necessary and do not add anything to this blog. And if you think anyone “likes” it when you do things like that then you are greatly mistaken.
What exactly was your relevant comment that I twisted around? You made a comment that didn’t make any sense so I asked you what you meant. And you have a long history of making irrelevent comments just to pick a fight with someone (such as the comments to Bernie that I refenced above) so I obviously assumed you were doing it again.
If you want me, and others, to take you seriously, then start making intelligent comments and stop saying stupid things just to attack someone else or trying to be funny. I’m going to give you the same advice that I gave bross when he first got here — comment less and think about what you’re saying more. Maybe then you’ll start making more sense and people will take you seriously.
But, no, I’m not just going to ignore your comments and let them go because it’s my responsibility to promote good, intelligent discussion on this blog. And if you aren’t going to stop then maybe you need to find another place to talk about the Browns, because this place obviously isn’t for you.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 28, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And a boring one at that.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 1, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Quit poking the bear.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Nov 4, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Or ripping the fur of Sandy the Squirrel?
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t have a horse in this race, but recs are not anonymous. Bernie19Kosar rec’d all three comments, and golanbatrac rec’d the one just above.
All of this information is available on individual profile pages.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Yep.
I think Brad is a fantastic moderator and my appreciation of what he does has grown since I have been named one as well. Sometimes you have to be the heavy.
When I agree with someone 100%, I rec it. That is why I rec Brad’s comments. The reason I didn’t say it was me, is because I was trying to avoid a 75 comment argument/discussion on why I am a douchebag.
But since it is out there, Brad is 100% correct. The fact that he needs to repeat himself over and over to certain people is tiresome for myself and surely others.
Now, how about those Browns?
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 28, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I should add that if anyone ever has an issue with anything I say or do, feel free to email me at Bernie19Kosar@aol.com
(This is 100% not argumentative, just wanted to make sure that everyone knew this so we don’t crush this thread with a scratch fight.)
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 28, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I still owe you an email about Inception! I had almost forgotten. I’ll get on that if you’re still interested.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Always. The South Park episode on it cracked me up.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 29, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally agree. Though I get into my squabbles on here with brad, I generally find him fair and usually to be right (and a great moderator)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Thank you bross! And I appreciate the efforts that you’ve made to change your methods and frequency of commenting since you first got here many months ago, and listened to the advice that I and others gave you. You have become a very valuable member of our community.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 29, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Well said.
Personally, I rec for all kinds of reasons (i.e. humor, agreement, vote, ect.), so it actually kills any kind of importance mine might have had.
As for the Browns, I’d say about 94% chance Joe Thomas makes it again. I don’t think that one game will have much of an impact in terms of the Pro Bowl, we also know rep means a lot. As for Cribbs, despite the rep comment, I think he misses it this year unless he turns it around here and runs one or two back. His long is a 34 so far, doesn’t cut it.
That got me thinking, does anyone think spending a lot of time improving at WR possibly cost him focus (or something) at returner? It might be off the wall, but is it all a possibility? He definitely had to put in a lot of time to make that jump he has this season, but enough to effect something that seemed to come natural to him before? Perhaps defenses are just better prepared, or I’m looking to far into it. He just hasn’t looked like his old self at returner, lost the explosiveness. Is it just me?
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
That got me thinking, does anyone think spending a lot of time improving at WR possibly cost him focus (or something) at returner? It might be off the wall, but is it all a possibility?
I think so. I think the same thing can be said for Hester.
Plus I think teams are getting smarter about kicking to Cribbs.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 29, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I did as well…not really b/c I care but more just to be a dick. :)
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
by Kimble_79 on Oct 29, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I for one think the BB kind of came out of nowhere with this
Are you trying to argue that Hillis should be in the Pro Bowl despite his average stats? Or are you saying that he’ll get in because you think he’s popular? Or are you just disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable like you often do.
I think SpecialBrownie made his points in a straightforward, non-argumentative way. Even if his points have no merit, his comments shouldn’t have warranted this response.
Agreed- He’s a Cleveland hero, but outside of Cleveland I am afraid he’s probably just about average.
Eh, he has a pretty good following outside of Cleveland. I think it’s due to the infrequency of good white running backs.
Sadly, this. Also the fact that no one else really runs like him and because Bronco fans are still making noise about it because they’re still pissed.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 28, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know – I have family in Denver and they would all vote Hillis. They love him out there and hate McDaniels for letting him go. I think we underestimate his popularity a wee bit because, well, he is a Browns RB.
by browndawgbacker on Oct 28, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s what I said. I don’t know if I worded it wrong.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 28, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we underestimate his popularity a wee bit because, well, he is a Browns RB.
I would say its quite the opposite. While I love Hillis and am glad he’s on our team, I think we all think a little more highly of him that what is reality. He’s a damn strong runner and has helped this team improve immensely; but I don’t think he’s cracked into the top tier of RBs in the AFC just yet, in either talent or popularity. We’re just giddy about finally having a decent young RB that lays the wood (so to speak…)
McDaniels’ wife knows all about it.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Nov 4, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Hilis is on course to squeak past the 1,000 yard mark and would be the first white running back since Craig James (for the Pats) back in, erm, 1984?
I think?
Look at the attention that french sprinter who broke the 10.0second 100m got.
For good or bad it just might propel Hilis up the rankings.
Welcome Joe!
Go Seneca!
Hodges. I don’t think anyone else has earned it this year (including Thomas).
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Oct 27, 2010 9:59 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
-TJ Ward. TJ ward is 2nd in the league and 1st in the AFC in tackles among D-Backs. Strong Safeties generally aren’t cover guys and he has actually been not bad in coverage for a SS. Tackles don’t mean everything, but he has made some big plays, including TFLs, hits on the QB, and bit hits on special teams. If considered as an SS, yes.
-Joe Thomas. JT had one bad game against a possible future HOFer. He is still one of the best LTs in the league and has improved as a run blocker to the point where we run to the left tackle twice as much as we do to th RT.
-Fujita. Fujita should definitely get consideration. Unlike the Clay Matthews and Demarcus Wares of the world, the guy actually is a force against the run too and focuses on it a lot. Though he doesn’t pile up the sacks, he is a force on the field in other ways. he racks up QB hits and QB pressures, forced fumbles, and tackles for a loss. He has a knack for the big play at the big time (sacks to get the team out of FG range, INT brees in the red zone, blocking a kick).
-Vickers. Plain and simple, vickers is one of the best blocking FBs in the league.
-Hodges. Definitely deserves punter consideration. #2 in the AFC in Net average, #1 in net yardage, #1 in rushing yards, #2 in punts inside the 20 (including #1 in punts downed, not caught), and he is #1 by FAR in average yards per punt return (3.5). Yes, a lot of the credit does go to the coverage unit, but what would any punter be without his coverage unit?
-Ben Watson. He is more of a longshot right now. However, he is 4th among AFC TEs in catches and 5th in yardage…however Dallas clark is now hurt. He also catches a higher % of passes for first downs than Hernandez (who is right behind him in stats) and Gresham (also up there in stats).
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
agree on JT and Vickers. I also like Mack to go. I’m afraid outside of our own fanbase, all most people know about Boss Ward is the hit on Shipley, so he won’t make it this year.
overall, I think wwe have 4 players that will be strongly considered and close to making it: JT, Mack, Hodges, Vickers. I think in reality, JT and Mack make it.
Joe Thomas will go.
Mack will probably go as well.
Cribbs will be the KR.
Outside of that, I don’t think we are good enough, team wise, to send any others.
I dunno if cribbs will be. he hasn’t been all that impressive as a KR this year, but might get it by name only. I forgot about mack. he quite possibly will go as well.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Cribbs will be the KR.
I’m not so sure. Brandon Tate is having a better year so far.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
I’d say rep and popularity have a say in it but, I can’t.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 28, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
thomas (although he doesn’t seem to deserve it through 7 games) and pontbriand. maybe hodges. that’s it.
by DontCallMeJoey on Oct 28, 2010 12:49 AM EDT reply actions
jeeze, Joe Thomas had one bad game and all of a sudden he’s not a pro-bowler? Joe Thomas could be strictly average for the rest of his career and still go to hawaii every year off of reputation. That’s just how it works for linemen.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
We’re the Browns though, nobody but Browns votes for us apparently.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 28, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Lomas Brown agrees with you.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Oct 28, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Pontbriand should always go. His only bad snap of his career happened because Serensen put his hand in the way.
by rebuilding year on Oct 28, 2010 1:11 PM EDT reply actions
I can honestly say I see 3 Browns in the ProBowl
Joe Thomas will get in on reputation, Ward because how cool will it be for there to be 3 safeties from the AFC North there, and Hodges. Anytime a punter runs for 68 yards on a single carry he has to be pro bowl material.
I'm getting tired of saying this: Dick LeBeau’s system is so complex very few rookies can make an impact.
"It would be tough for me to care less about their opinion, to be honest with you." Mike Tomlin
No way TJ Ward goes, and I’m sure he wouldn’t deserve it. He’s been great for us, but he’s not the best safety in the AFC in his rookie season, but don’t worry too much, he will be in time.
And the awesome fake punt was great, but that’s just a cherry on top of the delicious sundae that has been his season thus far (98% punting, 2% rushing).
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Ward might go as a backup, especially since tons of guys will skip it due to “injury” or the super bowl.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Oct 28, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
It depends on if he is listed as a SS or FS. he is listed by position on NFL.com’s stats as a SS but plays a bit more FS. If this is as a Free Safety, then possibly. If this is SS, I disagree.
He definitely has a chance at SS. it is wide open right now for the Strong Safety position. Chris hope has been good in coverage and is always a good run stuffer. However, outside of him its mostly pure run stuffers. Only whitner I would say is significantly better in coverage than him.
Plus, they might end up sending 3 guys because of injury.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I honestly haven’t looked into his potential competition at the position, but that’s awesome if there’s a legitimate shot at him being one of the best safeties in the AFC as a rookie.
And I really kind of seem him as a hybrid SS and FS, he can cover like a FS but lay the lumber as good as any SS.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
yeah. Thats how I see him as a player. I am just talking about for the pro bowl and which position he will end up being counted as when it comes to the pro bowl.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I not even sure if the NFL recognizes the difference between FS and SS when considering the Pro Bowl.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 29, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
i assume the other 2 safeties you are talking about are reed and polamalu. reed hasnt played all season and troy’s stats don’t warrant a pro bowl. i havent watched much of him, im just going off of statistics. I would say chung and griffin are the best so far.
Is there anyone else putting up ridiculous numbers like Ward for consideration of ROY?
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
I’m actually surprised by the amount of media attention Ward has garnered, I would not be shocked if he won DROY.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Oct 29, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Suh is the leader (4.5 sacks).
As much as I may regret this sentence, Earl Thomas has played very well also.
by Bernie19Kosar on Oct 29, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Suh also has an INT
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 29, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Pre – season doesn’t count. Just ask James Davis.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Oct 29, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Hillis has been playing hobbled and has no legit no 2 RB and hardly any passing game to help him out. That he’s able to do what he does is pretty ridiculous. He won’t make the probowl cus he’s too low profile, but not because he isn’t good enough.
I’ve got Cribbs, Thomas, and Vickers, mostly all on reputation.
Moisture is the essence of wetness.
doesn’t really matter anyways. they’ll all be sitting the game out to get ready for the super bowl.
Jake is my hommeboy
by davus on Oct 30, 2010 9:52 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Thomas. Mack, Hodges, and Cribbs have outside shots.
I think Hodges deserves it based on that fake punt alone if his averages are within 5 yards of the best in the AFC. Mack might not be one of the best centers yet, especially if we are to consider older players’ reputations. He’s close though. Cribbs has a chance based on the popularity and name he has established, but I am not sure he deserves it based on his play to this point.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
First post
Hodges-but one run does not make a pro bowl punter. His average placement alone should make Pro Bowl worthy. The run is just icing on the cake.
Thomas should be in the conversation, as should Mack. Health and no more bad plays that result in 6 points for opposing defenses and ultimately the game. Mack will have a tough go as there are some pretty good centers in the AFC.
Hillis-he’s go plenty of respect and popularity among fans, media and other players. 4.4 ypc is actually pretty good behind a average line and a tough schedule. Additionally, 6TD’s in 7 games. Only CJ(8), Arian Foster(8) and Mike Tolbert(7) have more.
While I wouldn’t put TJ in the PB yet, he should be in the conversation for rookie of the year. Unfortunately Sam Bradford is a media darling and “his story” is far more interesting to tell so I don’t think anyone will beat him for that award. A fine for an illegal hit doesn’t help TJ’s case either.
There is a special place in hell for Steelers fans.
The run is just icing on the cake.
This is kinda how I feel. If it is close, give it to the guy with the sweet fake and run. If you shank all of your punts but make one good run, you aren’t a pro bowl punter, you are a RB.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Even if you wanted to vote in a statistical sense, he would be a good choice. I believe you get to vote for 3 RBS.
He is 6th in yards, 4th in Yards Per Carry, 3rd in TDs, 3rd in the top 10 (in AFC total yards) in % of carries for 1st down.
You definitely take Foster, and Probably CJ2K (though he ranks below average in ypc and first down % but thats also because he runs against a good deal of 8 man fronts), and also possibly DMC and Jamaal Charles.
The question Remains, does Hillis’ high % of first down runs and TDs mean he is better than Charles and DMC who haven’t been getting into the EZ much?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
he runs against a good deal of 8 man fronts)
If you are a DC, how do you play our lack of passing game? I am going 8 man box and/or Cover-4/Cover-0 all day. Let the Browns try to throw to the outside.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
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