Update on Cleveland Browns QB Situation vs. Jets
by Chris Pokorny on Nov 11, 2010 11:30 AM EST
in General News
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PrintIf there are any doubts on who will start at quarterback this week for the Cleveland Browns, then let's clear it up right now: Colt McCoy will make his fourth consecutive start versus the New York Jets. Head coach Eric Mangini won't commit to him as the starter verbally, but let's take a look at the other two quarterbacks this week...
- While Seneca Wallace returned to practice on Wednesday and moved around well, he did not cut into McCoy's playing time with the first-team offense. Wallace ran the scout team, something that I imagine Brett Ratliff had been doing before. Wallace will continue doing the same thing in Thursday's practice.
- At last, Jake Delhomme will return to the practice field Thursday for the first time in weeks, but will be very limited. There is no way that he would be in line to even be considered to start in this week's game, although he could possibly be the team's No. 3 quarterback.
For McCoy to be getting all of the first-team practice reps, it wouldn't make sense to put Wallace or Delhomme back under center given McCoy's play the past couple of weeks. Cleveland has been bringing out the trick plays though, so if the Browns want to stay creative this week, maybe we could see Wallace come in for a few plays out of the Cyclone.
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I wouldn’t mind seeing the Cyclone package a bit when we need to give Peyton a rest. Obviously, we don’t have much of a 2nd RB option, so mixing up the Wildcat/Cyclone in those spots wouldn’t be a terrible idea.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 11, 2010 11:47 AM EST reply actions
Speaking of, anyone seen word about Bell?
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 11, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Isn’t the Iowa State team that Wallace played for called teh Cyclones?
Stuckey watch: At least 10/30. Not sure at the moment. Point is, he's on pace to win me the bet.
by BrownDawg1409 on Nov 11, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, that’s why they gave that package it’s nickname.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
That’s also why when it’s just Cribbs, it’s the Flash Package. But commentators ignorantly just call it the wildcat.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 11, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Stupid
Columbus til I die, Columbus til I die. I know I am, I swear I am, Columbus til I die!
Editor of The Cannon, a Columbus Blue Jackets Blog. Check us out!
by Andrew Tolliver on Nov 11, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
There are so many different variations now on a bunch of different teams that “wildcat” has basically just become a generic term to make it easier for the announcers. Personally, I’m a wildcat purist: 2 RBs (one getting the snap) and an unbalanced offensive line (stacking the tackles).
I think announcers should really start calling just a “direct snap” when they see a team run it.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Still think this is were Cribbs could help out.We should use him like MetCalf was back int he day.Cribbs would rock as the change of pace/swing out RB
by Brownsfan4ever on Nov 12, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
Colt McCoy looked great ad libbing it in the pocket. When plays broke down, he got us some yardage scrambling. This week we should look to protect him however. If he can scramble I hope it´s outside the tackles with his arm cocked. Otherwise look to defenses to correct the cocky QB from Texas when he thinks he can run it.
Open the playbook, up a little more for McCoy,this week,and watch how he handles the offense. Where did you get the idea that this kid is cocky? This young man has never been cocky, confident yes, sure of himself, yes. I’ve watched him play,his entire college career, I’ve watched a lot of his interviews, and to my knowledge he has never said one cocky thing. It’s always about team, locker room, working hard to get better, and help his team win. Period
Browns, Indians, and Cavs,
Cleveland Fans, Support all of your teams.
still responding to moon seriously I see.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 11, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
I guess, I missed the joke, Please fill me in.
Browns, Indians, and Cavs,
Cleveland Fans, Support all of your teams.
by dawginhouston on Nov 11, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Nope. I’m revisited the concept though. It will be back up next week. (It’ll likely be a fanpost rather than fanshot.)
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Eh, I liked how it was going but I suppose that’d give it more press time. You should ask Chris to front page it weekly. Why’d you take a bye this week though?
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 11, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
I was rethinking how I wanted to do it, and by the time it was Wednesday I didn’t have any shoops done or even looked into this weeks pictures. Generally, the less days the page is out, the less time people will have to do any themselves.
But yeah, the piece needs a long shelf life to do well, and FanShots drop too quickly. (However, I preferred the simpler formatting.) I’m really hoping missing this week doesn’t discourage the other photoshop folks here, I’ve really enjoyed them.
It’s entirely up to Chris if he wants to put it on the front page, I would never ask for it.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Marcus Benard just collapsed at a media event after practice. Not good. Hope you get better big man!!
Resident of Believeland.
by browndawgbacker on Nov 11, 2010 1:24 PM EST reply actions
I’ve been a Mangini backer from the beginning, but this whole refusal to say who the starting QB is is getting real old and is real lame.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 11, 2010 1:44 PM EST reply actions
I’m down with it. It does make the opposing DC’s job harder because he doesn’t know who to prepare for.
He’s fooling no one. And it’s a lot better to just commit and give our QB the confidence. Holmgren specifically criticized him during the offseason for this and I almost get the feeling he is still doing this to just show that he is the boss.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 11, 2010 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
i actually think a lot of the qb management goes through holmgren, or at least passes over his desk. but i agree that he’s not fooling anybody.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 11, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
No. Holmgren is not naming the starting quarterback at all, and definitely is not behind this bs about not naming McCoy.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 11, 2010 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
a. i don’t think you can possibly know that as definitively as you state it
don’t we have to believe that mangini is smart enough and holmgren remains interested enough to have holmgren at least weigh in on qb decisions? i’m not saying holmgren is making the qb decisions, but there’s little doubt in my mind that he’s kept up to speed on them. if not, we’re wasting a resource, quite frankly.by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 12, 2010 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
sorry … that wasn’t supposed to be bold. that was supposed to be point b
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 12, 2010 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Two resources. Holmgren and Gil Haskell.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Nov 12, 2010 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
Holmgren and Haskell are there if Mangini wants them. Holmgren probably makes his opinion known but Mangini has the say on who starts. Mangini knows who the boss is, everyone knows who the boss is.
Everyone in that organization from Holmgren down to the box office salespeople has to work in sync—that includes Mangini. The coaches and FO have to work together, and this is something All 3 of the head honchos have said publicly.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
What happens through the media and what happens in house are completely different. Get over it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Exactly right.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Nov 11, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
He’s fooling no one.
Tom Brady’s shoulder disagrees.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Nov 11, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think not being officially named the starter will have any effect on Colt McCoy’s confidence. The kid seems overflowing with confidence.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Nov 12, 2010 8:38 AM EST up reply actions
If not being named a starter destroys hid confidence/ability to play, he shouldn’t be in the NFL.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Nov 12, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
bingo.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 12, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone, including the opposing coaches, knows that McCoy is starting. He should just name him the starter and stop fooling around. This is stupid.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 11, 2010 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. Rex Ryan was making fun of him (justifiably) for this. Fooling nobody.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 11, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
It isn’t about this week, it is about every week. The one week where he does this and something surprising happens and it gives us a huge advantage in the game is what makes it worth it. I am borderline laughing at your short-sightedness.
No one in the NFL falls for a pass to the quarterback, or a lets up a 68 yard run to a punter, or a lateral on a kick return, or the fumblerooski either.
You make your runs look exactly the same as your PA passes, you make your pressers where the obvious thing is going to happen look exactly the same as your pressers where you have something up your sleeve.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
by rufio on Nov 11, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I am borderline laughing at your short-sightedness.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 11, 2010 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree with you here. As BB and TDS stated, everyone knows who will be starting. Its not going to surprise anyone. Teams falling for a trick play does not equal who will be your starting QB. They know who is starting.
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
Why does it matter? Someone with an orange helmet will be the starting quarterback. Its not like in years past where the coach was picking the lesser of 2-3 evils. How long has it been since we’ve been able to say that?
There is a special place in hell for Steelers fans.
It doesn’t to me. I just think for people to keep claiming that its mangini’s way of surprising the defense is ridiculous at this point. I don’t care if he doesn’t name the starter for the rest of the year. Point is…don’t claim its to surprise the defense b/c its not.
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
You’re not getting it. Trick plays only work because 99% of the other plays are normal plays. If 99% of Mangini’s answers are evasive and seemingly unsure in a situation like this (everyone “knows” who is starting and they end up being correct: the obvious thing happens) these are like the normal plays.
The the 1% of the time where Mangini seems unsure about someone due to injury, replacement, whatever, and everyone “knows” what is really going on but the obvious thing doesn’t happen, that’s the trick play for big yardage. The other team spends time preparing for Josh Cribbs and the Wildcat but he’s out. Or puts in a wrinkle to be able to double-team Shaun Rogers on every play but he’s out. This would matter a lot more if we had more good players.
Our coaching staff—for reasons beyond me—will beat you to death with a play until you are throwing things at your TV because you know what is happening. Then they will beat you to death with it some more. When you have given up all hope, then they go with the constraint play and it always kills. Remember when we put Cribbs in motion behind the IS Zone run like 400million times last year, only to never give the ball to Cribbs? We ran it again and again and again, and you always “knew” the ball wasn’t going to Cribbs. Then the one or two times per year we gave it to him, he went for 30+ yards.
Mangini is giving it to Harrison up the gut on those plays right now in this press conference. He wants to make everyone behave exactly like you all are behaving; thinking you know exactly what is going to happen. Then, one week he actually will be keeping a secret and everyone will be totally fooled.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
We ran it again and again and again, and you always "knew" the ball wasn’t going to Cribbs. Then the one or two times per year we gave it to him, he went for 30+ yards.
This is exactly like something I brought up in the post game thread.
Last game we had Cribbs run the Wildcat. Each time he ran it, he took the ball and ran it to the right, to our weak side of the line. IT WAS PISSING ME OFF!
Then, on the fake, CRIBBS RAN IT AGAIN TO THE RIGHT! OH WAIT, STUCKEY HAS IT TO THE LEFT!
Touchdown.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 13, 2010 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
real old and is real lame
Can you explain?
I’m not quite seeing it as “real old” since neither of the other QBs had been active over the past couple weeks when Mangini refused to name a starter. Throughout, he seems to have the true benefit of injuries.
And how is it “real lame”? The team has played well over the past three games and won two in a row… (After winning two games convincingly, how can we argue about Mangini’s decisions for managing his team and managing his message?)
At this point, opposing teams should expect only one thing – the unexpected.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
I’ll post this here, hoping people see it:
Going to the game Sunday. Unfortunately, I don’t have the cash to buy a new jersey. I do own a Brady Quinn jersey from a few years ago. I’m going to be a homer and put tape over the name and need something clever. Something referencing Peyton Hillis/Quinn in Denver. Even something like “Thanks Denver!” Any suggestions?
by DisplacedBuckeye on Nov 11, 2010 4:13 PM EST reply actions
Well, because it’s ten, you can also duct tape the “1” to a “4”. Then BAM! 40.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 11, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Brilliant. Adapt and overcome.
Resident of Believeland.
by browndawgbacker on Nov 11, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
“Myoplex”
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 11, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Many, “Now I’m done” jokes were made in my household when he got traded. Not sure how you could work that into a jersey though
"There's nothing that cleanses the soul like getting the hell kicked out of you." Woody Hayes.
Missing something here.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 11, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
Didn’t you see all those Brady Quinn Myoplex commercials?
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 11, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
McCoy will be adding the trickery and twists this week as the offense will rely heavily on the no-huddle, muddle-huddle, and hurry-up throughout the game. I think McCoy has established the confidence of coaches and players
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
Then why can’t he even be named the starter for this game? I really think Mangini is acting like a clown for this.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 11, 2010 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Good Lord. Why does it matter?
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Nov 11, 2010 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
If EVERYONE knows Colt is the starter, why is EVERYONE so upset that Mangini doesn’t name him the starter in the press? Wouldn’t that just confirm what you already know? Who the heck cares? I sure don’t. I care if the coaching starts looking bad but I certainly could care less if the stupid media knows every decision the team makes.
One big advantage I see is that the idiots in the press go bonkers about it and it leaves them less time to talk about the rest of their stupid theories, conjecture, and “a source close to the Browns” quotes.
Brownsyup
One big advantage I see is that the idiots in the press go bonkers about it and it leaves them less time to talk about the rest of their stupid theories, conjecture, and "a source close to the Browns" quotes.
You know, I hadn’t considered the deliberate idiosyncrasy as misdirection theory before, but I kind of like it. Sort of like leaving a small error in plain sight so that the kind of people who look for such things will find it and feel vindicated without digging further or immediately manufacturing something else to pick at….
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Nov 12, 2010 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
deliberate idiosyncrasy as misdirection
Smokescreen?
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Nov 12, 2010 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Tom Brady’s shoulder agrees.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Nov 12, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
I do not understand this joke Golan.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 12, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
not sure if it still happens, but for a period of years brady appeared on the pats injury report every single week (i think listed as “probable”, but on the injury report, nonetheless) w/ a “shoulder” injury.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 12, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, so this whole thing is a Belicheck thing, not necessarily just Mangini.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 12, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I like to think mangini is doing it just to spite the PD.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 12, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
That last part totally makes sense. Then again, the first article I saw (like on monday or even late sunday) about the browns on ESPN was about this situation and nothing about our win that I saw. But its good to keep the idiots busy. Its like throwing a rubber ball in a group of dogs or showing a shiny object to idiots.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
not sure why they would do that because the main plan is run the ball eat up the clock. if u no huddle or such u have to go fast or it doesnt make sense/work
No huddle causes defensive confusion. Also it inhibits substitutions so the defense wears down. You can call run plays from the no-huddle.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 11, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
I honestly think we have different phases of the game where we want to “shift gears” so to speak and eat clock at different rates.
Hurrying up can present a set of conditions to the defense that make them easier to score on—especially in a situation like ours where we probably are not more talented than the other team. This is why a lot of teams who are traditionally non blue-chip teams run odd/spread/hurry-up offenses in college. They aim to change the logic and conditions of the game to increase their chances of being a David and taking out a Goliath.
We don’t just want to simply chew clock all game. We want to score and get a big enough lead while minimizing risk, then chew clock.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Building on this, Mangini and Daboll have made it obvious that they prefer the no-huddle, and that was something weighing heavily in Quinn’s favor last year (when compared to DA). Now, they have a legit QB to run it. (And before someone jumps down my throat, I am not saying an elite QB).
That 4th down play from our 38 last game reveals the level of trust McCoy has gained. I don’t think we would have gone for it – and certainly not with a play of that complexity with any of the other QBs…
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Nov 12, 2010 8:33 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
You mean where they send him to the line with the ability to run the sneak or not, or run any of about 6 plays of his choice? I think they trust Delhomme with that. Seneca hasn’t shown that he has the ability to run the offense like that based on the amount of runs into 8 man fronts and passes into 7 man fronts that I remember.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Seneca has no clue how to audible nor does he feel like he needs to. It’s aggravating.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 13, 2010 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think he’s being given the choice.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 13, 2010 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
If McCoy is given the choice, no doubt Seneca had the choice.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 13, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Hi folks – just found this on the UT site (I guess they compiled / posted it recently after retiring Colt’s number? – not sure). Just wanted to share it for anyone who’s interested (career ‘highlight reel’ of McCoy in action with the Longhorns…)
by burntorangeandbrown on Nov 11, 2010 9:55 PM EST reply actions
That’s what I was thinkig before the Steelers game. McCoy is capable of getting away from those hits and he’s done a great job of being slippery so far. He’ll be fine.
by Legoman0721 on Nov 12, 2010 8:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It’s getting to be a bit annoying listening to the TV announcers talk about how clean McCoy’s uniform during the games. Hopefully, this week we will hear more talk about his field vision and command of the game.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Nov 12, 2010 8:26 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That’s a good thing, just ask anyone who’s started at QB for us before. A certain pic of Kelly Holcomb comes to minds atm.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Nov 12, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Its clean because he keeps it clean. By this, they are implying that “oh, he has a great O-Line and the teams they play can’t rush the pass”. New England got a good pass rush on him, but he was able to escape.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Spoken like a true Jets fan ;-)
(took a look at your profile)
I’m not worried about Colt. He’s got the ‘IQ’ factor which is going to help him a great deal in getting through his rookie year (not to mention his great scrambling ability). Not only does this give him an edge in quick reads of defenses and running the offense. It is also why he is so good escaping trouble, protecting the ball and avoiding turnovers. I’ve seen him outrun more than a few D backs in the NFL already. Yes, his game at Pittsburgh was a bit rough, but hell, it was his 1st game ever played in the NFL – have to keep that in mind. Since then, no turnovers, no interceptions, just one sack. That’s against the Patriots, and against the Saints AT New Orleans.
Your Jets are looking really good this year and certainly have a great defense.
But dude – what happened to you guys coming off the bye week – Green Bay comes in and shuts you guys out?…
by burntorangeandbrown on Nov 12, 2010 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
colt is going to get hurt playing with the big boys. hope seneca is ready.
Yeah… I guess the Saints and Patriots aren’t “big boys”. I hope Brunell has his arm warmed up cause the Jest are more likely to need him. Oh, and I hope they have some good backups on defense because Hillis is going to be knocking your guys into next week.
After seeing the Jets barely beat the likes of Denver and Detroit and get blanked by Green Bay I’m not exactly scared for the Browns.
Brownsyup
don’t forget the steelers, who are bigger big boys than the saints or the pats, at least on defense. colt somehow managed to avoid getting hurt in that game, too…
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 12, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
And the Steelers are a team that is on record as having at least one player who deliberately tries to hurt players on the other team, and who took two of McCoy’s offensive weapons out of the game with dirty hits to the head.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Nov 12, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
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