Ask a New England Patriot
by NinjaZX6R on Nov 2, 2010 12:08 AM EDT
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PrintHey there folks,
Bill Belichick (check out the link lol) returns back to Cleveland, Ohio with a surprising 6-1 New England Patriots facing a 2-5 Cleveland Browns. Last time New England played the Browns, we won 31-17 back in 2007.
We have a bunch of knowledgeable bunch of bloggers at Pats Pulpit, and we will gladly answer any questions you have...so fire away.
Rec this...so it stays on the most rec'd fanposts.
Thanks
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Well, first question, just out of curiosity, how did you become an OSU / Pats fan, seems like an odd mix? Follow up, (and be honest) who comes first?
- – -
Next question, what do expect from Brandon Tate going forward, legitimate / consistent deep threat, just your return guy, or both?
Also, how about Danny Woodhead, what do you want or see his role being with the Pats in the long term?
- – -
Lastly, what’s your take on this whole Moss thing? Do you want him back (+ your free 3rd rounder)? I think we know the Pats are one of the few teams he’ll actually try to play well on at this point.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
well
1) I lived in NH for 8 years and about 2 years in MA followed the Pats then…then ..family moved to Ohio (Dayton) and I attend The Ohio State University…my fav player will always be Mike Vrabel (still pissed @ the trade) …loved watching him (though i barely have any memories) play for OSU and the Pats. I’m hoping the Pats get Cam Heyward w. that Raiders pick
I bleed Scarlet and Grey first…I’m still pissed off @ the Wisconsin game more than i am of the Jets game in week 2.
2) Tate- IMO he is still learning on the job. I think he is still a deep threat and a kick returner (kick offs only). He doesn’t command a double team like Moss does and that imo, has clogged up the inside lanes for our possession WR’s like Wes, Elderman, Branch. Still learning how to get separation from the CB.
3) Moss- I was pissed @ the trade…but after the win against the Ravens and the Chargers…it went down…but after his press conference yesterday….my heart melted and I want him back….but under two conditions…low salary…and on occasions..run inside routes
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
I bleed Scarlet and Grey first
Smart choice. It’s the same for myself.
I want him back….but under two conditions…low salary
I honestly wouldn’t be all that surprised if he cleared waivers and agreed to resign with NE for less pay. I still think it’s more likely some team doesn’t mind picking up the 3+ million dollar tab and unless it’s a contender than Moss will enjoy playing for, that team will be severely disappointed.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
my fav player will always be Mike Vrabel
A funny side-note – Mike Vrabel’s dad was my principal in High School
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
Another side note — Mike Vrabel goes to my church. We saw him at mass this summer with his wife and kids, and my wife couldn’t stop talking about how hot he was.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
...
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
So it wouldn't be a surprise that, for a linebacker, he scores a lot?...
11 TD receptions, I mean…
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
i think he has 1 more...got one from cassel 2 weeks ago
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
Another week, and Vrabel scores...
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
His dad though……not so much (far right)
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 4, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
He looks like a little Holmgen.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Nov 5, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
With an r in it.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Nov 5, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
…Yep, I concur, weirdly.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, how about Danny Woodhead, what do you want or see his role being with the Pats in the long term?
I think so…he is quicker and I’ve seen him block Ray Lewis and few other blitzing LB/Safeties pretty well.
Before we picked him up…i actually wanted the Pats to draft Brandon Saine in a Kevin Faulk type role…but after watching him play…i don’t see that happening.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
Saine has been pretty good in the passing game. Not so much running the ball.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I like his ability as a 3rd down back....He just reminds me of a semi Kevin Faulk
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
Here's my take on Woodhead
Danny Woodhead certainly carries the “underdog” sentiment with the fans and the media. Small guy, small school, cut by one team, picked up by another ETC, ETC….. Kinda like a smaller version of Kurt Warner, meaning, every time you hear the guy’s name it’s accompanied by the “stocking shelves” story.
Don’t get me wrong, the guy is electric and makes great plays for us…. BUT, he does it within a very specialized scheme. I just don’t believe Danny could be effective in a smashed mouth offensive scheme. In my opinion, he’s the recipient of a being in a perfect situation for his specific set of skills.
Woodhead tends to get touches when the defense is keying on another sort of play. The goal seems to be to get him the ball when the defense is spread the furthest. If he can break the plain of that first line of defense, he’s dangerous because he’s such a slashy runner. 90% of his carries not only come out of shotgun…. but they occur when the O-line is blocking in pass protection mode. If the Pats suspect the defensive of a lot of “speed rushing” around the outside of the tackles, they’ll give it to this guy on an inside handoff when the bulkiest part of the D-line have taken themselves out of a running play. Woodhead is at his best when they can get the guy the ball a few yards away from the grasp of a defender. He’s just not capable of shaking off would-be tacklers in a congested backfield. If a play calls for a RB to blast through small creases in the line of scrimmage, you can count on Green-Ellis to the the ball carrier. Danny is a small runner with great moves, but certainly is no Barry Sanders when it comes to using strength moves to shake tacklers!
When I consider the contributions this guy makes for the Pats, I have to believe he was cut by the Jets simply because his skills don’t match well with their offensive strengths. Unlike most teams….. I find the success of our passing game often dictates the effectiveness of our running game and not vice-versa. Young Mr Woodhead fulfills his role VERY WELL. But, I’d disagree with the notion he’d be effective fulfilling the multiple roles one associates with feature backs.
by Bills friend on Nov 5, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
1. I hate Wes Welker. This isn’t a question, just wanted to tell someone new.
2. Is Aaron Hernandez the most dangerous passing weapon in that offense now?
3. Logan Mankins going to play against us?
4. Josh McDaniels is pretty much thought of as a douche around here. What do Pat fans think of him now?
I hate Wes Welker. This isn’t a question, just wanted to tell someone new.
Why?
Is Aaron Hernandez the most dangerous passing weapon in that offense now?
The offense moved to a ‘throw it to a open guy’ type offense since Moss left. The Pats kinda use him like how the Colts use Dallas Clark…same size about the same height…..
one of our writers says its a death by smurfs offense…since Wes, Brance, Edlerman Woodhead are all below 5’9
Logan Mankins going to play against us?
Probably not…dont want to rush him back like Revis and suffer an injury
Josh McDaniels is pretty much thought of as a douche around here. What do Pat fans think of him now
Why? He is from Ohio…
we still like him and miss him as our O coordinator
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
I think we see McDaniels as a douche because he couldn’t seem to take any for the team and shipped off all the talent on that roster because they were in his “doghouse.”
He has run that franchise into the ground because of this.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
The media also proclaimed him the next “Mangenius” when he joined Denver, while every talking head ripped Mangini last year. We have a lot of arguments on this board about the media being biased against Cleveland – well, the whole Mangini witch hunt last year showed the ugly side of many writers and reporters. Meanwhile, we looked at Mangini as rebuilding the team, and making a lot of tough choices, while McDaniels is just playing with tinker toys.
Don’t get us wrong, the ill-feelings have passed for many of us as the guy is revealed for what he is AND – this is most important – we easily stole a wonderful piece of candy from the baby… Hillis is a beast!!!
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Nov 2, 2010 8:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yeah
I didn’t mind trading Jay…but Brandon Marshall…come on…and then trading for Tebow…yeah…bad moves
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
Dude, it’s Edelman. Come on now.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
…Unless that’s Woodhead’s first name, which is odd.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2010 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Opps my bad lol...Kent State fan huh? lol
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
Why? He is from Ohio…
actually, yeah. He is from NE-Ohio, the same city Bo and Tom Dimitroff are from.
But we just hate him because he is a giant D-Bag.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Why? He is from Ohio…
So is LeBron James.
by emily522 on Nov 2, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
hate wes welker why ?
i get the brady bashing but welker that is a new one….
we are going back to the who ever is open system that was so successful for us that being said hernandez is getting open quite frequently and has really good run rac ability. great 4th round pick another steal for BB.
logan prob wont play against u guys most likely first start against the steelers although if he is in game shape which is doubtful he might get some playing time.
once mangini screwed us and bb over it kind of hardened our skin to coaches leaving. i think josh and eric should have stayed under bb wing a little longer but i know its hard to turn teams down when they come calling.
Did Mangini really “screw” you by leaving? Or are you talking about the whole spygate thing?
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
didnt screw us per say
i think BB had high hopes for him as a def coordinator. and going to our archrival wasnt very fun. there were also rumors of him pirateing some mid level players from us. it was just a bad situation of the apprentice gone bad,.
i think BB had high hopes for him as a def coordinator. and going to our archrival wasnt very fun. there were also rumors of him pirateing some mid level players from us. it was just a bad situation of the apprentice gone bad,.
Oh, so if you had the chance at a head coaching job but it was the rival of the team you coordinate you wouldn’t do it? Bullsh*t. There is some Patriot bias in there.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, chill. He is talking about what he thought created a bad situation. He is a guest here and he’s not trolling.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 2, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t say he was. That comment isn’t suposed to have a “jackass” vibe to it.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh hey, BB comment me again, shocked.
And there’s no need to say that. I answered that it didn’t mean to sound like that. Tons of people here do that and then say they didn’t mean for it to sound jackass-y, why do I get commented by the mod about it then.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Please stop the “everybody else does it but I’m the only one who gets picked on” routine. It’s not true and it’s getting very old real fast. Obviously I’m not the only one who thought your tone was unnecessary. Why don’t you try some self-reflection for once instead of always getting defensive and blaming everyone else.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 2, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
You cry every single time BB comments on one of your post. I think it’s getting pretty old. And most of the time, I completely agree with what he’s saying… And I guess I could be wrong, but I don’t think that I’m the only one that agrees with what he’s saying most of the time when he says something about you (or anyone else, for that matter).
by shep615 on Nov 2, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
I agree and i have been on the wrong side of BB before. I just try not to be antagonistic and have realized even if I do believe that everyone it out to get me (which is really never the case), saying that and complaining about it gets me nowhere.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
no there isnt specialbrownie
i never blame a man for doing what he thinks best for himself or his family. if its a coach or a player. we dont walk in their shoes. i was just stating of some of the stuff that went on during his departure. there was a lot of stuff that went on that we as fans dont even know about. there was 0 bias in there.
excuse me, but in the NFL, how does someone “pirate” some mid level players?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
oops....
was the HC of the Jets in 2006.
Also he took another FA patriot player (can’t remember the name)….its an un written rule in the Bill Parcell that former coordinators from the Parcells tree don’t take each other’s FA players unless they asked permission first.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
he took two players. one was a Special Teamer who might not have been getting a contract from NE anyways, and a backup return specialist who was a FA.
Oh yeah, he picked up a guy on waivers too. When it comes to a DC/OC going to a HC job, this is minimal “poaching”. He pretty much took the last 2 guys on the Pats bench from 2005.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
he also tried to take some NE staff w. him...thats a no no in the Bill Parcells code
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
so?
you still haven’t answered the pivotal question:
once mangini screwed us
HOW????
He might have pissed of Belichick, but he did things that people in the walsh tree have done and practices that are common everywhere else in football…and his was in fact down down compared to the average.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
i didnt say mangini screwed us
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
well…this all started from a comment by a pats fan that said belichick screwed you guys. then it got talking about how Mangini was raiding the team, which he didn’t do any more than other HCs do…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Mangini kicked off the 'Spygate' thing, supposedly...
And no, that wasn’t an invitation to rake the coals of Spygate. It’s just interesting to note that Mangini will be part of the organisation that supposedly had iffy videos (although apparently most teams were doing it), and at the first opportunity rats out his ex-employer after an antagonistic divorce.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
(although apparently most teams were doing it)
I am very interested as to where this came from.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Same. I assume it’s just a Patriot excuse to make themselves feel better about it.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
no other coaches have said it many times
jimmy johnson said it on national tv . brian billick said it. the patritos werent the only team doing it they were just the team dumb enough to get caught. i wouldnt say most or put a number on it but they werent the only team doing it.
1. Sources please.
2. If this is true, I’d assume they were executing it much more heavily than anyone else.
3. Don’t get coaches tape mixed up with signal stealing.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
its really old news
there is no way the patriots were the only team trying to get a competitive advantage. they got caught breaking a rule they got punished. it wasnt what they were taping it was where they were taping it from. but they did cheat and got what they deserved.
The only thing taped was defensive signals which are legal to film, just not in the location where it was filmed. They filmed from that other location to make easier what they had already been doing by hand…recording the signal, and then the scoreboard.
I don't think so. Homey don't play dat.
…right…
So, you’re saying what you guys did was legal, found an easier way to do it, then it was illegal?
1. I’m pretty sure what you were doing was illegal in the first place.
2. What I just described is the definition of cheating.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Umm…no, it was legal, especially during the day of the game, but again, it was WHERE it was taped. In that JJ article below, he says he routinely did it. So, it’s not illegal to do it…..the location was the part that was.
I don't think so. Homey don't play dat.
Okay, there’s a difference between actually watching a game through observation and saying “Hm, when they put their head on their hand, they get a sub to come in for them.” Or “When the QB meshes his hands together, they huddle up.” Seeing signals through observation of coaches tape and real life observation is different than filming the sideline purposefully for intent to fins specifics of signals to specific formations and plays.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
right and they were the only team to do it
they did cheat i 100 percent agree with u but dont sit there and think they were the only one doing it. and u know what if mangini knew they were doing it i am sure it helped his career dont you think??? knowing the signals made the defense that he was the cordinator of a little better if they are cheaters so is he. i have never denied they broke the rules they got punished and they are not the only team doing it.
they did cheat i 100 percent agree with u but dont sit there and think they were the only one doing it. and u know what if mangini knew they were doing it i am sure it helped his career dont you think??? knowing the signals made the defense that he was the cordinator of a little better if they are cheaters so is he. i have never denied they broke the rules they got punished and they are not the only team doing it.
I do not think this. The funny thing is, is that when Mangini became coordinator, your defense actually got worse. But it’s alright Romeo’s success in KC is obviously from the fact that he cheated years ago and already knew everyone’s signals.
One more thing, they were stealing defensive signals for their offense to use, so why would that benefit Mangini?
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah cause mangini is no romeo
and he was young and working his way up the ladder. spygate is such a waste of time i dont know why i let myself get dragged into this arguement.
Because you know you probably lose it but your instinct to protect your Patriots compels you to argue?
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
i didnt lose anything
i know what went on with spygate. i am ok with it. i admit it is hard for me to be unbiased towards bb as he is the coach of my favorite team and also the best coach ever in my opinion. but i understand why cleveland fans hate him i dont agree with it but i understand it. so i respectfully say agree to disagree as ron burgandy says. good luck on sunday i really believe its going to be a close game and a good one to boot.
i know what went on with spygate.
Nobody has really any clue what truly happened. So, this argument is really all speculative anyways. Nothing to get red – faced about.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
its just a game
i am not upset. i talk sports to relax.
Bill Belichick has a long way to go before he can even hold Paul Brown’s hat as the best coach ever.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Nov 4, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Pfft, he hasn’t even gotten close to Shula who is not close to Landry who is also still miles away from Brown. Also, there are still many more coaches to go before he even hits Shula.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
i stand corrected
i have no problem admitting when i am wrong. bb is no paul brown.
but i understand why cleveland fans hate him
we have no special dislike for him that other organizations/fanbases don’t. you are not the steelers, BB does not hold a special place in most of our hearts for hatred.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Well, he was a former coach so technically it’s different for us.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of people still have not forgiven him for getting rid of Bernie Kosar.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
yeah that was a tough call one he has
said he messed up. he was a young head coach and as u know he isnt too soft around the edges. he makes the hard decisions for the better of the team i still remember the shock when he cut lawyer milloy not in kosars class but close or when he didnt give drew his job back and then traded him to buffalo. or even more recently he traded seymour and randy moss and kind of nudged bruschi towards retirement. they were all fan favorites and tough pill to swallow but every one of them were the right calls for the team.
thats true. I personally don’t remember that, but it doesn’t seem belichick hate is anything more than disliking his personality and coaching style in NE.
I think there would be a similar amount of hate if he didn’t coach in cleveland ever.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
no he gets a little more venom
in cleveland u know when u cut the teams hometown hero bernie kosar.
…because a pats fan has unlimited knowledge of belichick hate in cleveland.
many older fans dislike belichick. however they dislike him at New England and care little about his time in cleveland.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
not unlimited but
a lot of the fans old enough to remember bb time in cleveland dont like him. i am guessing youre not one of them junior.
wow. nice way to be condescending.
I said somewhere on here that the older fans I know (family, friends, friends’ family) do not hold a grudge on him because of that…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
dont like a taste of youre medicine
u acted like i was way off base for suggesting that peole in cleveland dislike of bb. it has faded over the last 15 years esp with all the heartache the sports fan has endured in cleveland. i can see why they would not like him it would be like a new coach coming into the patriots and cutting tom brady at the end of his career that would not go over well here. but yes some people i have talked to on here just this week have stated they still think badly of that decision. its good for me but bad for uy guys cause bb had the browns going up till that piece of crap art modell pulled the rug ut form under browns fans. browns went 11-5 in 94 and beat parcells lead patriots in playoffs he is the last coach to win a playoff game for the browns and in 1995 he had them cruising with a 3-1 record after 4 weeks then modell announced he was moving the team before week 5 and the team went down the tubes they all quit. if that didnt happen u guys might be praising bb and i would be out of a dynasty. i apologize if i offended u i didnt inted to start any trouble over here in youre house.
by brady12mvp3 on Nov 4, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
dont like a tast of youre medicine
I was never using pejorative-laced language. you too were the one that made a blanket, omnipotent statement about cleveland with nothing to back it up
yes some people i have talked to on here just this week have stated they still think badly of that decision.
I saw one. So does that outweigh the over 1 dozen people I know that don’t care anymore? If the team was still here, maybe there would be a bit more anger at BB for his actions, but Modell was very good and changing the focus of the anger.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
at the risk of being chastised again for saying I’ve been a Browns fan for many decades (ya you special), I do hold a grudge aginst BB. Not only did he get rid of Bernie, he got rid a lot of our multirole players (backup WR’s special teams). He really didn’t get anything for getting rid of them either, and it made us weaker. BB is very lucky his BS works in NE.
No talking. Talking doesn't play football, talking isn't going to make you practice harder or play harder.
…because a pats fan has unlimited knowledge of belichick hate in cleveland.
he’s closer than you are on this one, bross. there’s a lot of leftover angst directed toward belichick in cleveland b/c of his time in cleveland.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 4, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with DCMJ. Many Cleveland fans still hate Belichick because of what happened in Cleveland, like cutting Bernie Koser.
bross, you shouldn’t attack someone when you don’t know what you’re talking about. Also, you don’t speak for all the fans in Cleveland any more than he does.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 4, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can't post up the facts now, because the search engine is off for some reason.
want me to post them?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Here it is:
1. The NFL said that no advantage was gained.
2. Matt Walsh (one of the filmers) said the tapes were never used on game day. Oh, he confirmed that no walk-throughs were taped.
3. Taping by teams is allowed on game day, to only problem was WHERE they taped, to THAT they taped.
4. NFL taping instructions say that the filmer should show the game clock as well as the action on the field.
5. One of the tapes included an opposing coach smiling and waving to the filmer (who was wearing Patriot garb).
6. Their is NFL film of the Patriots filmers on the field wearing Patriot garb.
7. Other coaches (including Jimmy Johnson for the Cowboys) said that he routinely taped.
8. Most coaches said it was no big deal.
9. A professional scouting organization (no affiliation), said that the film provided no more data than what they would already have had. At most, it just stream-lined the process.
10. The same organization pointed out, that from a logistic point of view, it would have been virtually impossible to use any of the game tape on game day. There is simply not enough time.
11. Teams employ people in the booth to try to steal signals. That is why teams change them throughout the game.
12. Parcells said that teams that don’t change their signals deserve to get them stolen.
13. The Patriots went 18-0 after the incident, and were 1 blown coverage by Asante Samuels (the guy that was supposed to cover Tyree) away from 19-0.
I don't think so. Homey don't play dat.
by AtomicDawg on Nov 4, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
There we go!
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
1. What they did was illegal. Teams can film on gameday but you can’t film when, where, and what the Patriots filmed. The NFL, who writes the rules on this concluded as such. Whining about how you were doing something everyone was doing is ridiculous. If everyone is doing it, everyone should be fined and penalized appropriately.
If it doesn’t give you a competitive advantage, it shouldn’t be illegal and your beef should be with the rule itself. The fact is it does give teams a competitive advantage and the Pats’ staff were caught doing something illegal.
2. The Giants WON that game. You didn’t lose it, they made plays and they won the game. They beat one of the greatest teams of all time in the super bowl. Yes, some of your players could have made more plays but they didn’t. The Giants made more plays and they won. End of story, get over it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
1. What they did was illegal. Teams can film on gameday but you can’t film when, where, and what the Patriots filmed
Just ‘where’, although ‘where’ might dictate the ‘what’ to a certain extent. If it was under covered seating, everything they did was legal.
If it doesn’t give you a competitive advantage, it shouldn’t be illegal and your beef should be with the rule itself.Belichick’s beef was with the rule itself – it wasn’t clear what counts as allowed seating in the first place. For instance – teams with removable roofing. What’s ‘covered’ if the roof can move in and out?
2. The Giants WON that game. You didn’t lose it, they made plays and they won the game.To a certain extent. Asante Samuel dropped a ‘gimme’ interception in the final Giants drive that would’ve iced the game. The Giants made plays, but you could equally argue that Samuel ‘lost it’, as much as any individual player can do in a crucial moment.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
If it was in a grey area, Bill knew he could get in trouble. He went for it anyway, it paid off bigtime, and then he got caught.
The Giants won that game against incredible odds, give them some credit. There are plays I bed they’d like back too.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
please don’t say they weren’t sure whether or not it was legal. the league had sent out a memo that season outlining this exact rule.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 5, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
And the memo was why they were punished. Belichick took his case to Goodell and was fined and such because he was found to be in breach, but it doesn’t mean it wasn’t still questionable.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 5, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
That's what NFL Commissioner Goodell said, yes.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Here’s the Jimmy Johnson source B12MVP3 was referring to.
I don't think so. Homey don't play dat.
by AtomicDawg on Nov 4, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
QQ: Did you ever steal signals?
JJ: Oh in a heartbeat, yeah. Yes I did.
Q: Via video, Jimmy? Or no?
JJ: Oh yeah, I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league. Just to make sure that you could study it and take your time, because you’re going to play the other team the second time around. But a lot of coaches did it, this was commonplace.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
From the same interview:
JJ: That’s what I’m saying. I was saying one of Marty Schottenheimer’s scouts, Mark Hatley, who has passed away now, Mark told me that’s how they did it, and Howard Mudd their offensive line coach with Kansas City, who now coaches for Tony Dungy, he was the best in the entire league at stealing signals.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This portion isn’t really relevant. The part that is relevant is at the end of the first block quote.
Everyone steals signals if they can, and this is 100% legal. If I know you are in inverted cover-2 every time you pat your belly and rub your head because I just watched you and realized the pattern, this is 100% within the rules.
The taping was the problem.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I included both for posterity.
JJ saying he stole signals, and JJ saying he did it by videotaping. They fit together rather well, and the second half would make no sense without context.
And he says it was ‘commonplace’.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Everyone steals signals if they can, and this is 100% legal. If I know you are in inverted cover-2 every time you pat your belly and rub your head because I just watched you and realized the pattern, this is 100% within the rules.
I told them this 4 days ago Ruf, they don’t listen.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 5, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Bill Parcells said that if you don’t change your signals regularly, you deserve to have them stolen and used against you.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 5, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
that doesn’t justify anything.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 5, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Who said I’m justifying anything, ever? I simply stated what Bill Parcells said.
Thanks for trying to pick fights, though. It’s really appreciated as a visitor here.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 5, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
based on our earlier discussion, this sounds like you were trying to justify Bill stealing signals. sorry if that was not your intention.
Also, you are entirely too sarcastic. You made a valid point. you weren’t trying to justify anything. but frankly, the sarcasm makes me think you are just trying to be an ass.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 5, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Jimmy Johnson said so.
And apparently Dungy and Holmgren agreed.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
that’s a stupid rule.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
what I mean is, do you really think Bill would respect that rule?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Lets see:
-In 1990 when belichick became coach of the Browns, they picked up 3 former Giants; Joe Morris, Matt Stover, and Lee Rouson. thats just in 1990 (not including guys like Pepper Johnson he took in subsequent years).
-In 2000, he sniped Otis Smith and Jets Rookie Marc Megna.
So, he is just a hypocrite.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
again...he did it but he might have ok'ed by Bill Parcells
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
so we are supposed to assume that
a) mangini sucks because he did it
b) belichick is okay though
just because he MIGHT HAVE ok’ed it with parcells even though you have no proof of that? Even if parcells did "OK’ it which I highly doubt anways (not that he would flat out refuse but that parcells would give him his blessing to take his own players), its still stupid to do this and then say your Coordinators can’t.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Relax, dude. It wasn’t even him that made the original comment. No need to jump down his throat.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 2, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
well…
I pointed out that belichick did the same thing he was criticized for, then he seemed to shrug it off like “oh, parcells probably let him have the player”
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Again, see my comment below. Parcells left the Giants before Belichek took over for the Browns. I remember it quite clearly. That was the year the Giants beat the Bills in the Super Bowl; we hired Belichek and Parcells retired as Giants HC. There were conflicting stories about whether the Giants were pissed that Belichek didn’t take over for Parcells or whether they were happy to see him go.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 3, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That Giants organisation imploded...
Apparently the owners wouldn’t speak to Parcells, and Belichick was basically carrying messages between them.
It might’ve meant Belichick was on better terms with the Giants ownership, but if you:
a) see your mentor being treated like a dog, and
b) are being treated like a messenger boy
Would you want to take on your mentor’s old job in the exact same set of circumstances?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Bill Parcells retired before Belichek took the job. Again, Bross, you really need to check your facts.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 3, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that is irrelevant to the point that belichick DID snipe players from the giants. all that means is that parcells definitely didn’t let him have players,
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Huh? That is some real weird logic. If Parcells left the organization, Bill B was not taking any players from him.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 3, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yes. he wasn’t taking players from him b/c he wasn’t there.
It may not be his former coach there, but he still took players from his previous team. that was the basic point.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
The basic point...
…is not stealing from the team, but from the coach.
by Richard Hill on Nov 4, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I honestly don’t see it that way. does the coach own the players?
I don’t see the difference between if a coach is there or not. I guess thats just me.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
does the coach own the players?
In the Parcells/Belichick coaching tree, pretty much.
Let’s put it this way – when McDaniels got his HC role in Denver (with Belichick’s blessing), he took with him ex-Patriots like Russ Hochstein, Jarvis Green, and Jabbar Gaffney.
When Scott Pioli went to Kansas and hired ex-Patriots coordinators Weiss and Crennel to work with Coach Haley, the Pats traded QB Matt Cassel and LB Mike Vrabel to the Chiefs at the bargain price of one 2nd round pick.
If you ask nicely, Belichick will give you players. If you steal them, gloves come off.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
If BB really requires people to ask nicely before signing free agents or making waiver claims, he’s even more of an ego-maniacal ass-hat than I thought.
This is the NFL, if he’s going to be pissed at people for trying to legally make their team better, he can cry me a river.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
only 2 people really know what happened
everything else is speculation. and it was written that mangini talked to players a little too early to try to recruit them to the jets. its all in the past and was overblown then. it was just 1 part of the crapstorm that was created. i am sure bb has his reasons to be upset at the time i doubt it was for nothing.
It sounds to me like he was pissed that Mangini didn’t stroke his ego on the way out.
it was written that mangini talked to players a little too early
Unless you can find me a link, I won’t believe this. Also, if there were any truth to it I’m sure the league would have looked into it.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
dont believe it then
On January 5, 2007, between NBC’s two Wild Card games, Peter King said that it is widely believed that Chatham’s signing with the Jets early the prior offseason is one of the major reasons Patriots coach Bill Belichick is upset at his former defensive coordinator and current Browns head coach Eric Mangini. King said the signing broke a code among coaches in the Bill Parcells coaching tree, which says don’t touch each other’s players.
i cant find a link but that is on matt chathams wiki page. i remember reading in the paper at the time it was widely speculated that mangini talked to chatham before he was officially a free agent . something happened between these 2 and only they know what it is. everything else is speculation i dont blame mangini for leaving he did what he thought was best for him.
by brady12mvp3 on Nov 4, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
like I’ve said multiple times, the idea that you don’t sign players from the other guys team is ridiculous. I don’t care if that’s the unwritten rule in the Parcells coaching tree, it’s a stupid rule.
Again, sorry if I don’t take your recollection of what you read in the paper as fact. I’m not accusing you of making it up, I’m sure that’s what you think you read, but that doesn’t mean it’s what you actually read.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
like I’ve said multiple times, the idea that you don’t sign players from the other guys team is ridiculous. I don’t care if that’s the unwritten rule in the Parcells coaching tree, it’s a stupid rule.
Oh, so when Romeo signed McGinist, he was no longer on the Belicheck Christmas Card list?
Boo.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
i am tapping out of this
really is a moot point. bb has his reasons to be upset with mangini if they are logical or good reasons according to others is a matter of perception i guess or opinion. we dont know all the facts.
The one thing the Belicheck tree is good at, is keeping facts away from everybody else.
This is a fact at least.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
f they are logical or good reasons according to others is a matter of perception
I would say something being a logical reason is a matter of logic. logic begets logic but there is no logic in the line of thought for belichick.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Actually, no
From what I saw, Belichick counselled McGinest to go to the Browns. McGinest learned he was being cut or not being re-signed (I forget which), but was prompted to go to Cleveland.
Don’t say Belichick didn’t do anything for you, ha.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
i agree it is ridiculous
i know what i read. i know what was speculated by the media at the time. and i agree with u it doesnt make sense to me either. bb knows whats up he knows why he was upset at the time he has his reasons i am sure. it was speculated that mangini was contacting chatham during a time when he wasnt a free agent yet and trying to recruit him and others to go with him. . wouldnt shock me to be true or not. it wasnt that players signed there it was the way he supposedly did it that was shady according to the media.
So, a coach can’t walk up to a player and say "Hey, I might be getting a new job soon and when you become a FREE AGENT AND CAN WILLINGLY CHOOSE WHERE YOU WANT TO SIGN, I want to know if you’d wanna check my team out.
It couldn’t be because the player had a better chance to play on that team, or had a better opportunity, or liked Mangini more?
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
no special brownie he cant do that
when a player is under contract to another team a coach cant do that.
Mangini was a coach under contract with the same team. Which means those players are just as much as his players than any other coach on the Patriots. He can’t bring up a hypothetical situation? Or bring up a situation that breaks no contract? Or ask what the players intentions are once his contract is up? I doubt contracts are that binding. 1. I’m not saying he did do it, but there are always general loopholes to contracts.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Which means those players are just as much as his players than any other coach on the Patriots.
Actually, no, since Belichick is also the GM as well as HC. Belichick, as GM, is a level above Mangini.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Not wen Pioli was there. I’m pretty sure he was GM
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Not by role
Belichick made all the decisions, and Pioli put them into practice. Pioli was the administrator and Belichick the decision-maker, and they made a good team.
That’s not putting down Pioli at all – he and Dimitrioff both had influence and respect on and from Belichick – but at the end of the day, it was always Belichick’s call. That was always clear, and why he took heat for personnel decisions like letting Milloy walk instead of it being directed at Pioli.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I’m sure he has his reasons. I just don’t think they’re good, which, as you said, is a matter of opinion I guess.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
so you really think
that bb is just mad at mangini for no reason whatsoever or because he is a jerk ? i am sure bb isnt perfect in the matter he has a flawed personality that is for sure but i just dont agree that mangin is the innocent victim that he is portrayed to be.
1. Belicheck comes off as a huge jerk, I don’t anyone who thinks otherwise.
2. When Belicheck doesn’t get what he wants, he seems like he gets pissy.
3. He seems like the person that holds a huge grudge over something extremely minor.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
i agree somewhat
bb hates the media his press conferences are comical to listen to. you can listen to a press conf after any win or loss and he will say the same thing. if he wins he says we looked good out there we played 60 minutes or we just made more plays then them. if he loses he says we got outplayed and outcoached. but really who cares i dont his job is to coach the football team not be funny like parcells or provide entertainment. he is not my friend he is not a role model he is a football coach thats really good at his job. he has flaws in his personality but who doesnt.
Woah, we weren’t arguing his personality, we were arguing if it had to do with Mangini, which I think it does, based on the quirks of BB I seem to notice.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
This is a manufactured media-based opinion
just because a coach doesn’t give information doesn’t mean he is “smug” or “arrogant” or “jerky”.
“Smug” according to dictionary.com means:
1. contentedly confident of one’s ability, superiority, or correctness; complacent.
I would certainly not consider BB to be content. What successful coach is ever content?
Complacent? means self-satisfied; please with your situation. Huh? BB is always trying to get better. Which videotaping signals would prove, correct?
I don't think so. Homey don't play dat.
What in the hell are you talking about? You just through tons of crap into this that was never there.
1. I did not base my feelings on the type of person he is due to the fact that the Belicheck system thrives on withholding information.
2. I never used the word “smug”, so wtf are you talking about?
3.I also never used the term complacent or assumed he was content.
So, shut up a little.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
You said “comes off as a huge jerk”. Did you not? Or do you not comprehend anything you say?
I don't think so. Homey don't play dat.
What did that have to do with anything you said though? Nothing.
Reading comprehension, my friend.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
you dropped the ball on interpreting that definition. the definition never says he is content in general, it says he is “contentedly confident of his abilities,” and I would assume most coaches are.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Emphasis on speculation.
comes off, seems, seems.
That’s why he goes fishing with Sean Payton in the offseason and hangs out with Jimmy Johnson to bounce ideas off each other. Shrug.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I never said any of that. BB could be mad at Mangini for “stealing” his players or for going to a rival or for spygate. I just don’t think those are good reasons.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
you realize too that Chatham was a career Special Teamer at the bottom of the roster…and he was just ONE player.
Anyone who would get upset at a friend for doing something as minor as that has some serious ego problems (like serious enough that he might actually need help)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
yeah you guys are right
its all belichicks fault he is the devil. i give up. we dont know all the facts.
That’s not what we’re saying but the thing about the facts is..you don’t.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
i am out
good luck on sunday and with the rest of the browns season.
Let me clarify. You don’t know all the facts and obviously neither do we. It’s the ideal with the Belicheck system.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
thats what i have been saying since the begining
everyone wants to blame bb for the whole thing and make mangini the victim. bb has his faults he isnt perfect but i am 100 percent sure he has his reasons for this and maybe he is doing mangini a favor for not saying anything who knows. i dont. its a whole media blown up crapstorm that has nothing to do with football.
Again, nobody is saying that.
We don’t have all the facts, you’re right. but what we do have isn’t kind on Bellichick. You keep saying you are 100% sure he has his reasons, and I’ve never disagreed with you on that. All I’ve ever said is I think they’re bad reasons. If his reasons are spygate, stealing players, and going to a rival without Bill’s blessing, I don’t think he has good reasons.
You are right there could be things we don’t know about, but to assume there is something we don’t know about that makes BB look better is a little too much blind faith for me.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
well thats youre opinion
and we will just have to agree to disagree. mangini isnt innocent in this whole non football related non issue.
you realize too that Chatham was a career Special Teamer at the bottom of the roste
As was James Harrison for the first three years of his career.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
so Chatham will be james Harrison?
Harrison is an exeption to the rule and when it comes to late bloomers, he is about as late as it gets. Harrison emerged in his 6th year. Chatham played in new england for 6 years. the odds are astronomical that he would break out in his 7th year. In fact, he retired after only 2 years with the Jets. this is a stupid comparison (exeptions to the rules as evidence are dumb…plus, harrison was more than a career special teamer anyways…)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
He never got a chance...
He was behind Willie McGinest, Roosevelt Colvin, Mike Vrabel and Tully Banta-Cain on the depth chart – each of those guys have 10 sack seasons to their credit.
Mike Vrabel ‘never got a chance’ in Pittsburgh, and even considered retiring when his rookie contract with the Steelers was up. He was convinced by the Steelers coaching staff to stick with it and try free agency, and that went rather well.
Chatham was obviously good enough that his loss riled Belichick up. You think you know more about 3-4 OLBs than Belichick does?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
well…If he was such a great talent, why didn’t he break out in 2006-2007? he wasn’t behind 10 sack guys, in fact the OLBs in 2007 combined for a total (starters and reserves) of 7 sacks.
Chatham was obviously good enough that his loss riled Belichick up.
Its not obvious. there are more explanations than the fact that he was a special talent. it could be the Ego that Belichick has shown on multiple occasions. There is no evidence to suggest he was anything special
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Same reason Vernon Gholston didn't
The Jets struggled at developing OLB talent under Mangini.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
a) gholston was a rookie
b) he hasn’t improved under Rex Ryan.
If you seriously think that if BB or someone other than mangini was the coach in NY, that Chatham would = Harrison?
If not, then you seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing (and subtly throwing an insult at our current coach)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
If you seriously think that if BB or someone other than mangini was the coach in NY, that Chatham would = Harrison?
Did I say that?
Chathan was good enough to keep a roster spot on Superbowl winning teams. He was also good enough that Belichick wanted to keep him.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
a) you made the comparison that he could have ended up coming out of nowhere like harrison
b) you pointed out that a possible reason he didn’t in with the Jets is because, using gholston as an example (and a weak one at that), mangini can’t develop OLBs.
What were you saying than? you made the comparison and if you don’t think he could have (at least had any reasonable probability to) become as good as james harrison if BB was still coaching him, why make it?
Wanting to keep a guy and being good enough to be on a roster do not inherently make someone a very good player (not saying he is bad either…)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
James Harrison stuck around the Steelers roster (although he was cut and resigned half a dozen times as a rookie). He learned the system, stuck around, and turned into the 2008 DPOY.
Matt Chatham was, like Harrison, good enough to stick around on a roster full of All-Pros and 10-sack OLBs. He wasn’t a roster casualty despite having 4 guys above him who all got 10-sack seasons. That suggests he had value of some sort.
Whatever value he had that Belichick wanted on the roster would’ve been still in NE but for Mangini. Whether he tampered or not is moot, but Chatham would’ve remained a Pat if it hadn’t happened. And the fact that Mangini couldn’t find a use for Chatham suggests it wasn’t like he was taking Chatham to be a centerpiece of a Defence, like Bart Scott to Rex Ryan’s D. It didn’t help the Pats, it didn’t help Chatham, and it didn’t even help the Jets or Mangini.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
And the fact that Mangini couldn’t find a use for Chatham suggests it wasn’t like he was taking Chatham to be a centerpiece of a Defence
No. that is not what it suggests at all. that could be the case, but maybe he couldn’t find a place for him because Chatham isn’t a starting caliber player in the NFL. there certainly weren’t great OLBs on the Jets.
Matt Chatham was, like Harrison, good enough to stick around on a roster full of All-Pros and 10-sack OLBs
but by this comparison to harrison, you are inherently comparing the players, if not then the comparison has little meaning.
That suggests he had value of some sort.
yeah, obviously. I never said or implied he had no value. A better comparison would be a guy like Ray Ventron or Nick Sorensen on the browns. these guys’ situations are much more comparable.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
pre-steroids.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't think it's so much an ego thing as a respect thing...
Remember, NFL coaches/GMs have to deal with each other as equals on a long-term basis – trades, practice squad signees, free agency, etc.
If they leave New England on good terms with Belichick, Belichick will treat them long-term as equals and be courteous as such. When they blow out of town and tamper with players on the way out (Mangini supposedly told Branch what Branch would earn as a Jet just before Branch held out for a new, giant contract – suspicious much?) then Belichick isn’t going to deal with you as a GM, basically because you’re not to be trusted.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
no. its an ego thing. Belichick is just a throwback to the old school dictator coaches with the huge ego. The respect thing is directly tied in with someone’s ego too. the fact that they feel they deserve utmost respect from everybody and anyone who doesn’t give them that is shunned.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Ah, the scourge of the internet, pocket psychologists. I hope you’re certified for that.
I’m sure a guy with 5 Superbowl Rings ties his ego to the fortunes of backup LBs… Because that makes sense.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
wow…really…
Did I say Belichick was specifically bad for coaches? No, I actually pointed out that its fairly common for coaches to have quite large egos.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Belichick's known for being cold-blooded in personnel issues...
Drew Bledsoe, Lawyer Milloy (in particular), Ty Law, Randy Moss, Asante Samuel, Deion Branch, Logan Mankins.
He’ll happily pull the trigger on trades of well-loved or important players with no ego or emotion involved.
You think he’d get more wound up about someone ‘stealing’ Matt Chatham than he would about having to rid himself of Milloy?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
what does this have to do with Chatham at all?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
no. its an ego thing. Belichick is just a throwback to the old school dictator coaches with the huge ego.
I’m sure you can put 2 and 2 together.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
…but you are comparing apples to oranges. you are comparing a guy that he might have had an interest to keep on the roster to guys he got rid of.
you say that he doesn’t mind getting rid of important players. then why was he so upset about someone taking away chatham?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
you say that he doesn’t mind getting rid of important players. then why was he so upset about someone taking away chatham?
Because he doesn’t mind trading away or losing players if they go out the ‘right’ way – Cassel’s trade to Kansas, which was mutually beneficient, comes to mind.
The fact that Chatham was a bit-part player is precisely the point – he was upset that protocol wasn’t followed, just as he was upset that protocol wasn’t followed by Brad Childress in the Garrett Mills claim of waivers. It’s not the players, it’s the breach of the unwritten code of NFL GMs/HCs.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
he was upset that protocol wasn’t followed
doesn’t this sound a bit dictatorial?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Even if it does - so what?
He earned his stripes when he got 5 Superbowl Rings. And he learned it from Parcells, who got his stripes via 2 Superbowl Rings.
Mangini was a HC because he was plucked from Belichick’s coaching staff. At the very least, you owe the guy enough to at least follow the code of professional ethic he brought you up in. Belichick’s organisation is run that way, Mangini was taught within that culture, and he owes the fact he was selected to be a HC to the fact that the Pats system works.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
well…I said it was just Belichick being dictatorial and ego had something to do with it (and it inherently does because dictatorial situations generally lead to enlarging an ego). He does get leeway to be dictatorial after the SBs. Not saying he didn’t. Just pointing out that a lot of this may be b/c of the dictatorial nature.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
You're inserting 'ego' again for no reason
Belichick is a dictator by role – he’s HC, GM, and at the moment has no listed OC or DC.
It’s not an ego thing. I don’t think Belichick has his ego piqued by roster moves. Respect, perhaps. But not egotism.
Maybe you don’t know how to separate the two concepts, but Belichick isn’t egotistical in roster moves, or else he’d never admit his draft picks or trade moves were wrong.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, it has nothing to do with his ability to coach.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Nov 5, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
In the Parcells/Belichick coaching tree, pretty much.
Let’s put it this way – when McDaniels got his HC role in Denver (with Belichick’s blessing), he took with him ex-Patriots like Russ Hochstein, Jarvis Green, and Jabbar Gaffney.
honestly, this whole part seems pretty moronic to me and just shows that these guys are on a huge ego trip in reality.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
That's why you're not an NFL GM.
There are only 32 GM spots at most and 32 HC jobs at most. You have to deal with those guys as equals for the forseeable future – for trades, free agents, practice squad arrangements, etc.
If you can’t trust the other guy to do things in a particular way, you choose not to do trades to mutual benefit with them. If you build a level of trust that they won’t screw you over, you might do them a favour or two knowing they will reciprocate at some point.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
You have to deal with those guys as equals for the forseeable future
So mangini didn’t treat belichick as an equal? I don’t think this has anything to do with treating them as equals.
Like its been pointed out, other coaches do this too, but why is it that a certain self-important coaching tree feels that thats a no-no. Ego definitely has something to play with it and you are being a complete apologist if you keep denying that.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Uh huh...
I’m sure Belichick, with all his 5 Superbowl Rings and decade-leading win-loss record, is driven by ego in regards to roster transactions.
Brad Childress certainly is – he trumpeted how he ‘stole’ Harvin from Belichick:
“New England was right in there. They were right behind us [with the 23rd pick],” Childress said. "No, they didn’t think we’d take him [because of off-the-field] issues. Remember, they have our receivers coach there now. So they thought they could hold … and he’d come to them.
“They were down there working him out the day after I was there. And [Harvin] wasn’t supposed to tell anybody, and I was trying to pull that out of him, who that was. So, it was a little cat-and-mouse game that occurred.”
Belichicks ego-driven vitriol-laced reply?
…
Oh. Right.
Belichick’s booming, ego-laced reply when he ripped a 3rd round draft pick from Childress in exchange for 4 games of Randy Moss?
…
Again, clearly an egomaniac.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m sure Belichick, with all his 5 Superbowl Rings and decade-leading win-loss record,
so that breeds humility huh, and a guy can’t have an ego because he is successful.
please tell me, what PROOF is there, besides a reaction by belichick (which no one knows the cause of) that Chatham was WORTH getting that pissy over?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
please tell me, what PROOF is there, besides a reaction by belichick (which no one knows the cause of) that Chatham was WORTH getting that pissy over?
What PROOF do you have? lol
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Why is the burden of proof on me?
You’re the one asserting silly things like “Belichick’s ego is tied to the fortunes of 3rd string OLBs”.
Maybe you should provide proof it was an ego thing, and not a breach of NFL GM etiquette.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t really know that it was his ego, but I can tell you with certainty that it was not a breach of NFL GM etiquette for two reasons.
1. You yourself said it was something exclusive to the Parcells coaching tree.
2. It’s not against the rules. In the NFL, there is no friendly etiquette about talking to someone’s players. It’s either legal or it isn’t. other than that, everyone is going to do what’s best for themselves, as they should. I would flip shit if I found out Tom Heckert had to ask permission from Andy Reid to pick someone up off of waivers.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
1. You yourself said it was something exclusive to the Parcells coaching tree.
The Parcells/Belichick tree is half of the NFL at the moment, especially in the AFC.
In the NFL, there is no friendly etiquette about talking to someone’s players. It’s either legal or it isn’t. other than that, everyone is going to do what’s best for themselves, as they should. I would flip shit if I found out Tom Heckert had to ask permission from Andy Reid to pick someone up off of waivers.
EDEN PRAIRIE, Minn. – Vikings coach Brad Childress is the typical tight-lipped NFL coach, but he opened up on a radio interview last weekend. And Childress revealed an apparently tense conversation he had with Patriots coach Bill Belichick about a couple of players each team wanted to pass through waivers and put on the practice squad.
Childress said Belichick called to ask him not to claim tight end Garrett Mills, offering to avoid picking up a player the Vikings cut as a reward. Childress declined.
"He didn’t really care for that," Childress said Sunday morning on WCCO-AM. "He was trying to leverage, but you always find out who is honest and straightforward."
Story continues below ↓
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So the Vikings claimed Mills, the Patriots claimed linebacker David Herron, and Childress later realized he said too much.
"That’s a case of me being a little too colorful," he said at his Wednesday news conference. "You guys wonder why I stand up here and go, ’Yep, no, and maybe so.’ Bill’s and my conversation should stay between Bill and myself."
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If half of the NFL doesn’t follow that etiquette, how can it be NFL etiquette? This is not anything the NFL does, it’s something some people from one coaching tree do.
as far as your quoted article, isn’t that evidence in my favor? BB tried to make a deal with Childress, and Childress didn’t do it. I don’t see how that goes in your favor here. Childress didn’t obey any kind of etiquette, he took a player he wanted, as he should have.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Because Childress is the only one who jumped the gun
Belichick called up everyone else, and none of them touched Mills. Childress jumped the gun on it, and was punished.
And remember, this is Childress. He’s not exactly the poster-boy of sane NFL decisions. If Childress breaches a form of NFL etiquette in his personal bizarro-world, isn’t that a pretty good reason for everyone else to do it?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I’m sorry, but for me to accept this line of logic you’re going to have to show me that the Vikings were last in the waiver order, that no one else put in a claim, that Bellichick called everyone else, and that somebody actually agreed to a deal. Otherwise, as far as I’m concerned you’re making this up because it fits your angle.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Can’t, of course. Everyone but Childress keeps their conversations with Belichick public. I guess the best indication is that Belichick doesn’t go around claiming people off other GMs waivers, since that’s clearly the precedented response.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
really? I types “New England Patriots waivers” into google, and even with all the randy moss stuff, the fourth link down was about the Pats plucking Josh Barret off waivers.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Indeed.
Mike Reiss thought it was a warning:
Q. Do you think the waiver claim of safety Josh Barrett is in retaliation/sends a message to the Broncos about all the players they claimed/acquired from the Pats last year? — Joseph K. (Andover, Mass.)
A. Joseph, I do think that is part of it, but not all of it. I think the Patriots like Barrett as a special-teams player and that was certainly part of their thinking. You don’t pay a player $470,000 this year and then in the $1.5 million range as a projected restricted free agent next year if you don’t like the player. At the same time, I think this move is like a brush-back pitch in baseball, telling Josh McDaniels to back off the plate a bit (e.g. free-agent signings of Lonie Paxton, Jabar Gaffney).
Like I said, there’s a precedent when coaches overstep the bounds. The fact it’s only happened twice in my knowledge shows most toe the line. If anything, that’s evidence that there is an unwritten rule of how to treat each other’s rosters within the Parcells/Belichick fraternity.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
and
3. They have tried to imply that Chatham was a hidden Gem that could have turned into James harrison. This is the proof I asked for (this scenario). Without the argument that he was a decent player, it makes no sense until you consider ego.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
That’s not ‘ego’. It’s following the rules. The fact that Reiss suggests there are rules says enough.
Rules > ego-trip. ’Nuff said.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I wasn’t responding to that comment anyways. however, please give me another explanation to why someone would get SO upset over one small breach of rules and pretty much shun another person?
to me, the explanation that makes the most sense is a larger than average ego that interprets the actions as a personal insult. If this isn’t what you believe, please enlighten me.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I think it was more than just rules
it was of mutual trust, and mangini broke that trust.
At east that’s what I think.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
bross, you’re giving opinions just like they are. There is no PROOF for any of it, so stop acting like such a jerk.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 4, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
To be fair, Mangini seemed to be really upset when the Jags picked Don Carey up instead of him going back to us after clearing waivers. Maybe there was something like this that happened back then.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
i guess i started this on accident
screwed us was prob the wrong term. it was a case of apprentice gone bad. i really think eric leaving to go to the jets whoo bb hated as a orginization really bothered bill. then there were rumors of mangini going to patriot players and tryingh to recruit them to the jets a little earlier then he should have . then there was the spygate thing i dont think eric ratted bill out but i dont know for sure and if he did oh well bb broke a rule he deserved it. . i think bill just didnt think mangini was ready after 1 year as a def cordinator i think mangini is a real good coach and i think some of this crap was just overblown media crap from the pats/jets rival. bb has lost quite a few coaches that he coached with for a lot longer then eric mangini ,weiss crennel brad seely and nothing like this happened when they left. i guess we will never know the whole story but i dont blame mangini for it. i apologize for my miswording my statement sometimes my thoughts get lost in translation between my head and fingers hahaha
I think whenever a coordinator leaves a team, it has the possibility to create friction. I’m sure every coordinator has became good friends and trusts in some of the other coaches he works with so it would only be natural to try and take those guys with them. I could see where your coming from though.
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
Correct
Josh McDaniels is the obvious comparison to make with Mangini. McD was being scouted heavily by a few organisations who wanted him to be a HC; he approached Belichick and said so, and basically asked for advice and counsel.
Belichick thought he was ready, and even prepared a ‘bible’ for McDaniels of his own making, basically setting out a step-by-step guide to starting to mould a franchise as HC. McDaniels did things the right way and was rewarded for it.
Mangini blew out of town, dobbed in Belichick for ‘Spygate’ and was then basically antagonistic to his old employers and mentors.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Eric Mangini took a head coaching job when it was offered to him, like any sane coordinator would. This whole idea of “He should have asked for permission” is ridiculous.
was then basically antagonistic to his old employers and mentors.
I have no idea where this came from. From everything I saw Bill seemed to be the one who got upset and never wanted to speak again. Mangini even said in an interview this year that he still looks up to Bill and would love to repair their relationship.
even prepared a ‘bible’ for McDaniels of his own making, basically setting out a step-by-step guide to starting to mould a franchise as HC.
We all see how well that’s working out.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We all see how well that’s working out.
Well, he’s got the manipulation aspect down, so that’s a start.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Mangini even said in an interview this year that he still looks up to Bill and would love to repair their relationship.
You mean when it looks like he might lose his job after Holmgren shows up? Boy, I don’t see that as suspicious at all…
We all see how well that’s working out.
McDaniels has the same success rate as Mangini did in his first coaching job, and a similar success rate to Mangini’s overall record. And McDaniel’s success rate in Denver is actually superior to that of Belichick’s first HC gig in Cleveland.
Considering McD is mid-30s and is bound to improve with age, that’s not a bad jumping off point.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
so since Mangini and McD have similar success rates, all of that stuff about how it worked out better for him to obey BB is crap right?
Also, Mangini just reiterated how he feels about Bill yesterday, so I don’t think it has anything to do with fear of losing his job.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Shrug
Belichick doesn’t need to talk about how he feels about opposition coaches. Belichick has job security.
I don’t see it as entirely unconnected…
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I really don’t see how they’re connected at all. How does Mangini saying he wants to repair his relationship with a former friend have anything to do with finding another job?
Also, I can understand you not seeing it this way, but I think most of us are pretty confident in Mangini’s job security. As long as he wins another 2-3 games I think he’s pretty safe.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I disagree. what makes you think so?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I thought he was pretty safe until Holmgren started talking this week.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
We’re only 2-5. If we end up with 4 or even 5 wins I could see Holmgren either (a) wanting to coach again or (b) wanting to get his own coach in there. I’m not saying it will happen, or that it should happen, just that I wouldn’t be to certain about his job security right now. There are still many games left to be played and I think we need to get to at least 6 wins to be sure that Mangini is coming back.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
if the team keeps playing the way the have been and mangini is fired I will have to seriously question Holmgren’s ability in his new position.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
here’s a hypothetical:
- browns finish 6-10 and maintain a similar trajectory to what we’ve seen thus far
- jerry jones fires phillips and comes calling after holmgren to be his coach
- holmgren tells YOU it’s your decision, NTN: i want to coach again, so either you lose me in all capacities to go coach DAL, or you let me fire mangini and be coach and prez here.
what do you do? what do you do…
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 4, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
what do I do? first I lose a lot of respect for Mike Holmgren. then I let him go.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
fair enough. personally, i’d have a really hard time letting holmgren walk out of the building given the (apparent) structure he’s brought to the organization and his history as a winning football guy.
but i am a mangini fan, and i think the above scenario (which OBVIOUSLY has an amazing chance of playing out) would be pretty unfair to him.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 4, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
it wouldn’t be an easy decision, believe me. I think as long as Heckert stayed though I would have to keep mangini.
I would lose respect for the guy because he’s said repeatedly that he is doing this now, not coaching, and he wants to see this through. anything less is going back on his word.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s nice that this team is playing well and keeping the games close but we really need to start winning more of those close games. I know we just beat the Saints, and that was great, but if we lose the next 4 or 5 in a row then are we really making that much progress?
Of course, this is all hypothetical and we could keep getting better and end up with 6 or 7 wins, but if we end up with only 4 wins then are we really making much progress? Keeping games close is nice, but as Herm Edwards says “you play to win the games.”
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 4, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we are making progress as long as we continue to play the way we have. the gap between this team and the playoffs is talent, not coaching.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
the gap between this team and the playoffs is talent, not coaching
i agree with you, except to say that with daboll at the offensive controls the ceiling seems to be “playoffs”, as opposed to “contender”.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 4, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
How does Mangini saying he wants to repair his relationship with a former friend have anything to do with finding another job?
Because if you damage a relationship with your friend, you talk to your friend, not the press. If you talk to the press, you’re doing it for another reason entirely.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
unless: a. your friend won’t talk to you (which is the case here), and/or b. the press asks you 12,000 times about it (which is also the case here).
regardless of the motivation, i think mangini is too smart to think that he could ever be on a belichick staff again.
(and i agree w/ BB that mangini’s job security is way up in the air)
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 4, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
unless: a. your friend won’t talk to you (which is the case here), and/or b. the press asks you 12,000 times about it (which is also the case here).
Belichick doesn’t talk to the press about Mangini; funny how the reverse isn’t true, and funny how Mangini only starts talking about it when Holmgren turns up and could turf him out next season.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Mangini talked about it last year before Holmgren showed up.
you’re also ignoring the first point. BB won’t talk to Mangini. he has shown zero interest in it. If the guy won’t talk to eric, what’s wrong with eric trying to reach him through the press?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I’d say because that’s not how Belichick does things, but by all accounts Mangini knows where Bill’s office in Gilette is. He also knows the Patriots phone-number. I’ve never seen anything to say that Belichick would slam the door in Mangini’s face or hang up the phone; just that he wouldn’t pursue talking to Mangini on his own accord.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
what’s because that’s not how Bill does things?
You’re right, I don’t have anything to prove that Mangini has tried contacting Bill, but it seems pretty obvious to me the guy would like to mend the relationship, and Bill has no interest.
Also, I’m still waiting to hear why this has anything to do with Mangini’s job security.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Because he was full of bluster and ripped his ex-employer
and now he’s singing the praises of his employer?
If you’re job-hunting, you don’t slander your previous boss, because any prospective boss would go “hmm, do I really want that vitriol aimed at me one day?”
He’s all sunshine and light when he’s got no job security…
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
when was he ever full of bluster and ripping his ex-employer?
he also never said anything bad about the jets, and boy would it have been easy to.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Isn't that the point?
He was full of crap when he was ‘Mangenius’ in NY with a winning record, and shut his mouth when the Jets flopped and he was on the cutting block.
Holmgren turns up to the Browns, he’s all contrite again? Suspicious.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
i think you’re mis-remembering pre-browns mangini behavior. if anything, the guy has pretty much been a belichick clone in that he has frustrated media and fans alike w/ his clandestine and secretive methods (see: naming browns starting qb in 2009).
the “mangenius” moniker certainly wasn’t his creation.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 4, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
True, but he certainly played up to it
He was definitely full of bluster the first year in NY (and had a winning record).
Which is the real Mangini? The Rex Ryan-like one? Or he contrite current one?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
not sure we’re going to get together on this one, b/c i can’t remember anything approaching “bluster” from mangini at any point in his HC career.
also, the only thing that jets-mangini and jets-ryan have in common would be waistline…
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 4, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
not anymore...looks like Eric lost a lot of weight
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
You guys really need to stop using BB to refer to both myself and Belichick — it’s really confusing.
I also want to point out that I haven’t talked to Mangini, either, but he’s more than welcome to try reaching me through the press.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 4, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
lol...call Bill B "The Hoodie"
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
i cant beleive this many posts have been
directed towards the hoodies and eric manginis strained relationship. really who cares if hoddie wont talk to mangini?? who cares that they are in a tiff???? the hoodie doesnt have to like anyone he doesnt want to for any reason he sees fit it doesnt have to good reason to everyone. this crap was overblown 4 years ago.
by brady12mvp3 on Nov 5, 2010 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
So, essentially, Belichick is the equivalent of a Mafia Don, from whom one must seek permission before leaving the “family”?
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Nov 4, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Naw dawg, it’s a gang, MothaF*&ka.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, for much of the same reasons
And if you’re going to rip Belichick for the ‘silliness’ angle, you should direct the vitriol at Bill Parcells, since that’s where it came from. Belichick didn’t invent it, he just followed it.
And since you’re talking about the ‘family’, you should look at which other coaches in the NFL do the same – Parcells ‘offspring’ Tom Coughlin, Sean Payton, Belichick, Tony Sparano.
And then one step removed, you have Josh McDaniels, Romeo Crennel, Dick Jauron, Bobby Petrino, Steve Spagnuolo, and NFL administrators like Falcons GM Thomas Dimitrioff and Chiefs GM Scott Pioli.
Eric Mangini’s the exception to the rule.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
just because other people follow the rule doesn’t mean it’s a good one.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Just because half of the GMs and HCs in the league do one thing?
When half of the deal-makers and -breakers in the league do it one way, it does make it a good one.
If means that if you don’t follow the rules, nobody is going to play with you vis-a-vis trades and the like.
Funny how the Browns didn’t get any traction on trades until Holmgren came in. Unless you’re super-happy about losing Kellen Winslow?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
If means that if you don’t follow the rules, nobody is going to play with you vis-a-vis trades and the like.
Can Al Davis hiring and firing coaches non-stop(except this year so far so good), help?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Funny how the Browns didn’t get any traction on trades until Holmgren came in. Unless you’re super-happy about losing Kellen Winslow?
Obviously you aren’t a Browns fan so you haven’t been following this as closely as us, but yes, I’m super-happy about losing Kellen Winslow. I’m not alone either. His knees are a time-bomb, he was never that amazing to begin with, and we were lucky to get something for him while we could.
I’m also ecstatic that we lost Braylon Edwards. That guy couldn’t catch a cold, hated cleveland, has off-the-field issues, and is a grade-A ass-hat.
I’m even happy about the draft day trade that let the jets pick Sanchez.
These were all Mangini moves.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
And obviously you have no taste for an ironic tone. I was clearly implying that trading Winslow wasn’t exactly the best thing the Browns could do, as an example of how the trade the Browns were doing under Mangini weren’t exactly robbing the rest of the league blind.
While I do see ridding themselves of Edwards as a good thing, it still says something that the only trades Mangini wangled were to rid the locker-room of talent. Funny how he didn’t get a Matt Cassel-like QB talent from Belichick in trade like some of the other Belichick offshoots.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I really don’t get where you’re coming from here.
I’ll repeat myself: the winslow trade was a good one.
I think it would be hard to call the Cassel trade anything but even. The Pats got a high second and the Chiefs got an unproven QB and an old LB.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
And that unproven QB and old LB are starters and veteran team leaders on a team that’s 5-2.
For a second rounder? Yes please.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Matt Cassel is a decent QB, I can’t argue that. but he still hasn’t proven anything. He was bad last year and he’s played a good half a season. I’ll wait to pass judgement.
as far as Vrabel goes, just because someone starts and is old doesn’t make them good or a leader.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
True...
but every report I’ve seen out of the Chiefs camp by young defenders starts off with “Mike Vrabel has been a huge help”.
I can find some, if you’d like? They crop up regularly enough, if you’re not going to take my word for it.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I’ll take your word on leadership, and don’t get me wrong it’s something that gets underrated sometimes. But 9 times out of 10 I’ll take talent over leadership.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
read my sig. ;)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
credit to SMP of course. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
the browns are full of smart, motivated, team players. Look how far that’s gotten them.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
How has this season compared to, say, last year?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
And Dallas, the Vikings and Chargers are chock full of talent. A calming and respected influence in the locker-room goes a long way to make up for coaching deficiencies and the like.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Mike Vrabel probably has been a huge help in the locker room. However, you can still be a backup and be a good locker room presence and leader. He hasn’t really been much on the field so why can’t he be a backup/rotational guy and let someone with more potential and more talent take a starting role?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Point being?
You’re just picking arguments for the sake of it. Belichick traded Vrabel to the Chiefs for a discount because the Chiefs did things by the rules.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
You’re just picking arguments for the sake of it.
actually not. I am just merely pointing out that someone doesn’t have to be a starter to be a leader.
Belichick traded Vrabel to the Chiefs for a discount because the Chiefs did things by the rules.
Is that why he did it? they play by the rules so he gave them the hometown discount?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
It actually was a hometown discount.
BB just basically gave Vrabel to them. I think there were reports that we could’ve have gotten a 2nd with cassel alone, but if not, BB just basically said: “Well how about we give you guys vrabel so we can have a 2nd? Thanks.”
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Partly, yes.
The Pats wanted to move Cassel because he was on the Franchise Tag at $14M per season, and Brady was on the same kind of pay – that means $30M or so was tied up in one position.
Vrabel was on a fairly high wage, too, but was the incumbent starter and probably worth the cash given the youth at LB for the Pats. However, Belichick seemed happy enough to shift a young, gifted starting QB and a veteran, gifted LB for only a 2nd round pick.
Compare that to the value given up for Cutler (1st rounder + Kyle Orton + odds and ends).
It was a deal for mutual benefit done between teams who trusted each other, because of their familiarity within the ‘system’. And it seems both teams benefited from it.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering Belichick’s “cold-bloodedness” when it comes to roster moves, I have to think the inclusion of Vrabel meant he felt that his time that whatever intangibles Vrabel brought to the team were not outweighed by his actual talent level and his price.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
This. They were all smart movies IMO.
I thought K2 was amazing to begin with but seemed to lose something after multiple knee injuries…But I totally agree about the Time Bomb Knees
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
by talking to Dieon Branch in 2006 while he was a patriot when Eric was the
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
I can understand how a coach going to your hated rival isn’t fun – The Browns once had a pretty good coach on their staff by the name of Bill Cowher.
Granted, it was about 4 years after he was in Cleveland, but it still wasn’t fun.
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
I also don’t have the stomach to read the insanely long argument above ^^ – although I did read a little bit, and here are my thoughts:
1. I think it’s pretty common nowadays for new coaches to get players from their former team to come to their new team. It’s easier for the coach, if they are implementing a new system, to have some people they are familiar with. They also have spent the most time with those players day-in and day-out and know more about their talents.
2. I used to like Belichick, that is of course until he cut Bernie Kosar in favor of Vinny Testeverde. While Kosar might have been nearing the end of his good playing days, at the time it was the worst thing that happened since the Drive or the Fumble.
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 4, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
hate wes welker why ?
Two reasons. I think he is massively over rated. I get tired of hearing how awesome he is.
Second of all, he killed me in my fantasy championship last season (PPR).
I didn’t say they were good reasons.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 2, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I also hate Wes Welker. Let’s start a club.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 2, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
This guy sleep with your wives or something?
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
“Your” as in all of those here who hate Welker, their wives.
I mean, Edwards is easy to hate, but what did Welker do?
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
I hate Welker through no fault of his own. I hate him because I believe he is the most overrated player in the NFL.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
how
He had 3 100 receptions in the last 3 years….and changed the slot receiver position (@ least in NE)…i dont remember any slot WR in NE that ran routes like he does.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
His best season without Moss:
67 catches/ 687 yards/ 1 TD
4 games without Moss this season?
14 catches, 102 yards, 0 TD’s.
That isn’t anything special. He was a creation of Moss.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 2, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
he also is 8 months removed from his ACL surgery...and isn't quite 100%
he is still running his routes w. his knee brace.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
If he has 100 receptions in 2011 if healthy, then maybe an argument can be made that he wasn’t all because of moss.
but then, there will be pats fans that complain he is 30 and therefore got old. fans come up with excuses all the time.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Correlation does not imply causation
Where have I heard that one before…
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
one correlative effect. however if we were to have significant correlative evidence such as that Welker did little before he came to New England, that offense can help inflate WR stats (a la brandon lloyd this year in the same offense, Sam Aiken last year, Stallworth, etc..), the fact that Moss gets double covered and WRs tend to do better when he is on their team, and the fact that he is sucking now.
this is a lot more than one correlative effect. in fact, some (like the offense) really isn’t correlative at all. correlation is however necessary for causation and when causation occurs, correlation inherently also occurs (but not the other way around). Causal relation relies on much more than being implied by a correlative effect and relies on some counterfactual dependence (which the combined evidence i shows goes to prove). Oftentimes, it is truly impossible however to observe causal effects, and the best we can do is make a causal inference; and in a hypothetical case like this, the best we can do may be just a causal inference.
/endrant
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I’m not buying it, I think it’s just as plausible that all he needed was a good QB.
Welker is a great receiver? Slightly overrated? Well that depends on who you talk to, but a great WR.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
well, thats your opinion.
and the whole correlation implies causation was obviously just trying to attack me in a funny way…but like most ribbings or attacks we see (especially in today’s political climate…that’s all i’ll say about that), they are unfounded.
Well, also thank you for also pointing out the fact that tom brady makes everyone look a lot better. its not like he had bad QB play in Miami; they ranked 13th in passing yards and 4th in passing attempts so he had enough opportunities.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
It was a joke, not an attack, lighten up. Yes, we have a difference of opinions here.
But Joey Harrington and his 68.2 quarterback rating are not good, at all.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
yeah, sorry. Still in rant mode. I needed to get out of rant mode and thenkfully, now I am chill.
Yeah, Joey harrington was not a good QB when it came to rating. however, is there any evidence that negative QB rating negatively affects players on the field? I am not talking like DA bad, I am just saying if a guy is throwing picks but still moving the ball down the field, the picks don’t matter when it comes to WR stats.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I believe that Welker's best year before NE
he led ALL Dolphin receivers. It’s not his fault the Dolphins weren’t very good, and they went 1-15 the next year without him. Does that imply causality?
Just saying he may have been a victim of circumstance.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 3, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think calling him a victim of circumstance is incredibly ironic.
Jerome Harrison led the browns in receptions last year. someone has to do it.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 3, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Would he beat Welker, if Brady threw to him?
If so, he may be a victim as well.
Yeah, someone has to be the best on the team, but is the team bringing out the best in that someone? Would he be better elsewhere?
Welker has never asked for accolades, so any credit he gets is given to him. He’s a worker that has done good in his situation. Are his numbers down because Moss isn’t there (Wes gets extra coverage) or is it because of Wes’ knee or is it because there are more targets for Brady to throw to?
Only time can answer that one.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 3, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
you missed the point. you said welker leading the dolphins in receptions showed that he was good without brady.
Jerome Harrison led our team in rushing yards and receptions and may be out of the NFL soon. Leading a bad team in a statistical category doesn’t make a player good.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Actually my point was that Welker did as well as he possibly could in his surroundings.
He started on special teams and became the fourth receiver and was working up the depth chart.
He is not a rare physical talent. He is a guy that works his butt off with what he has. I like that in a player.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 3, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
He is not a rare physical talent. He is a guy that works his butt off with what he has. I like that in a player.
Me too. Doesn’t mean that he is any good.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 3, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I still don’t see how any of this makes Welker any more than an average receiver who was lucky enough to play with Moss in a wonderfully designed offense.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
lucky enough to play with Moss AND Brady. let’s not understate brady’s impact on the situation.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 3, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
good point, though I also think Brady has benefited from the situation. He never put up amazing numbers until they basically abandoned the run.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 3, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly though, he only truly benefitted in 2007. that was one freak year.
He definitely has benefitted when it comes to yards, but since the year they won the SB, he has put up 3600 yards, 60 comp %, and 24 TDs like clockwork (except one year when he had 3500 yards and another where he had 3 TDS.
I don’t think you can say he benefitted at all to the scale that Welker did. Welker was an average slot receiver that turned into a pro bowler, whereas brady just went up a half a step.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Only one player in NFL history, Gale Sayers, had more all-purpose yards in his first three NFL seasons than Welker did with the Dolphins; Welker holds the Dolphins’ all-time records for total kickoff returns, kickoff return yardage, and total punt returns.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
So he’s Josh Cribbs.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I was going to say that exact same thing but I ended up deleting it. Bravo.
I mean, it’s the Dolphins.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
And that's a bad thing?
I’d gladly have Josh Cribbs.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I love Josh Cribbs, but he’s a kick returner, not a great WR.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
If Josh Cribbs put together 3 consecutive 100-reception seasons...
would he then be a great receiver?
Oh. Wait. Isn’t that what you’re arguing against? Hah.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
That's a good point. lol
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
the sarcasm isn’t necessary. I know some of my fellow posters aren’t exactly being civil, but I don’t think I’ve crossed that boundary yet.
If Josh Cribbs put together 3 straight 100 reception seasons on this browns team, he would be hall-of-fame worthy. If he did it with Moss and Brady in New England’s offense, I wouldn’t consider him particularly special.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Brady’s only had three 100+ reception players. Ever.
Troy Brown. Wes Welker. Randy Moss. Troy Brown was Welker-ish, and was an absolute gem of a player. Yet only he got one 100 catch season in the Pats uniform, and only 554 receptions for the Pats in a 15 year career. Welker put together 330 in 3 years…
Nobody else playing under Brady has had near that kind of production. Either all of Brady’s WRs since ever were mediocre, or Welker is truly special. And yes, that is including the effect Moss had on that offence.
Deion Branch never had a 1000 yard season in New England, yet the Seahawks foisted over a first-round draft pick for the guy. Welker’s had three of them. What would he he worth on the trading block?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Keep in mind
Welker has to:
A) Beat his receiver on the line
B) Catch the ball
C) Run after the catch
He was excellent in all three of those. He beat DBs, caught SEVERAL first downs, and had a great YAC.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Wes Welker’s Y/C is always really low, he’s nothing more than a check-down option.
As far as catching the ball goes, he damn well better, he’s an NFL receiver who is never going to be a big-play threat.
I’ll give you beating his man off the line, but from my (admittedly limited) viewing of Welker, it seems like play design usually plays a big role in how he got open, not athletic ability.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
not always.
He runs across the middle a lot, which is difficult for any WR because the middle is where they get hit harder than near the edge.
He is great at catching the ball, even over the middle. He is like the kevin faulk of WRs, and is VERY clutch.
Welker gets about 5 yards after the catch this year. That’s very good.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
he gets about 8 yards total though. those plays are designed for him to catch the ball just pass the line of scrimmage and grab a few yards after the catch.
again, he has good hands and he goes over the middle well. But you’ll excuse me if I’m not impressed by 8 yards/catch.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
you should.
The pats in 2007 had about 7 yards a pass. Not to mention that is still considered a lot since the line of scrimmage starts 10 yards away on 1st down.
And if he catches it in 3 yards, then get 5 YARDS AFTER, that’s very good.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
passing yards per attempt is very different from yards per completion. in 2007 the yards per completion was 12.1, so as you can see Welker is way below average on that one.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Okay. 8 yards is still considered a lot for WR no?
Especially since he doesn’t run deep routes.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
not really. 8 yards total per catch isn’t that great. thats below average for a TE. Even before when he was averaging 10-11 ypc in previous years, thats still significantly below average.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
this offense
is all about getting short yardage, and getting first down after first down.
so getting 8/10 yards to get a first is a lot, or at least does help a lot, especially in our offense.
Yes, Moss made his stats go up, but his skills are still the same. the teams are just focusing on him and covering him more.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
yes. that is what the offense is about. however even in a shorter passing offense, that is not that good. the West Coast offense emphasizes short, horizontal patterns yet you didn’t see jerry rice averaging 8 ypc.
Welker is averaging almost 3 yards less per catch than the average for the rest of your team (which is skewed a bit by his receptions and when you take those out, the # is up to 4)
Even in an offense that emphasizes short passing, 8 yards per catch is not particularly good.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
that is not that good. the West Coast offense emphasizes short, horizontal patterns yet you didn’t see jerry rice averaging 8 ypc.
Your comparing Jerry Rice to Welker. pah-LEEZ!
Welker is averaging almost 3 yards less per catch than the average for the rest of your team (which is skewed a bit by his receptions and when you take those out, the # is up to 4)
He does get about 5 yards after the catch most of the time.
Even in an offense that emphasizes short passing, 8 yards per catch is not particularly good.
First down and 10. Pass to welker, he picks up 8 yards. Of course that’s not good. Not good at all…
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Your comparing Jerry Rice to Welker. pah-LEEZ!
well…better comparison than Chatham (who is a S-Teamer) to James Harrison.
I am comparing offenses and pointing out that being in a horizontally based passing offense does not mean that a player is going to average 8 yards per catch.
I also don’t get what YAC has anything to do with what I said.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
James Harrison was a special teamer for 3 years, too.
More to the point, Mike Vrabel was nothing more than a special teamer for the duration of his rookie contract at the Steelers. He wanted to retire instead of test free agency, but the Steelers coaches told him to go for it and test the waters. The guy now has 3 Superbowl Rings and was a Pro Bowler.
At the point Chatham left the Patriots, his career was no more and no less distinguished than Harrison’s or Vrabel’s after their rookie contracts.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
James Harrison was a special teamer for 3 years, too.
but chatham was a special teamer for 6 years and by that time in the league, Harrison I believe won DPOY (or maybe it was the next year, but he still had 8 sacks).
you know what, this is irrelevant to my post anyways…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Harrison only got his shot on the active roster because the Steelers cut Joey Porter (controversially, no less) for salary cap reasons, and because LaMarr Woodley and Lawrence Timmons were slow to pick up the playbook.
Matt Chatham didn’t have that luxury.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
…well he did in NY when they had no one who was any sort of pass rushing threat…but you will find a reason why its not his fault.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Gee whiz, it’d never be coaching, would it? Hah.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
you did try to imply that…but look at what Mangini has done with guys like Matt Roth and Marcus Benard…and don’t try and say “oh rob Ryan was the DC”…well mangini had a DC too in NY.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
well…better comparison than Chatham (who is a S-Teamer) to James Harrison.
moot point. Doesn’t say anything to what I just said. You cannot compare Rice to Welker. Nuff said.
I am comparing offenses and pointing out that being in a horizontally based passing offense does not mean that a player is going to average 8 yards per catch.
Of course not, but our offense is based on YAC. And welker does that efficiently.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
You cannot compare Rice to Welker. Nuff said.
wasn’t comparing players, but how players put up statistics in an offense. it would have done me no good to name his #2 WR that no one would have known.
He definitely is very good at YAC.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
But rice is physically and athletically better than welker. Therefore, unfair comparison in terms of statistics in an offense.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Welker's 2008:
16 games
111 receptions
1165 yards
72.8 yards per game
10.5 average
64 long
6.8 yards after catch
57 first downs
3 TDs
All that, and that’s with Matt Cassel at QB.
I repeat; 6.8 yards after catch for 111 receptions?!
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
so he is a guy that gets a lot of screens and turns them into 8-9 yard gains and catches a lot of short slant routes over the middle? I think I already know that.
Interesting you would include 1st downs because he barely got over 50% of his catches for first downs which was barely better than Lance Moore. In fact, if you compare his first down % with NE with the career ones of other slot guys like Lance Moore and Davone Bess, it is about 5% lower. Just something interesting to chew on.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
He was used instead of the running game.
They’d often pick out Wes Welker on first down to set up a 2nd-and-short. Why do you think Brady was so happy to bomb it to Moss so often?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
They’d often pick out Wes Welker on first down to set up a 2nd-and-short.
and lance moore was never used to do that? however, his career first down % is significantly better.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Does Lance Moore have three consecutive 100 catch, 1100 yard seasons?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
considering they both played in the slot.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Lance moore has an excellent QB, but he also doesn’t get a lot of targets. Moore is a 3rd option in that offense, but that is also an offense where the 4th or 5th option gets as many targets as the 2nd option when passing the ball.
This is an offense where the #1 guy gets 69 targets, but the difference between the 2nd option and the 6th option is 15 targets. the 6th passing option gets 28 targets while the 2nd option gets only 43. Name me an offense where the #2 gets that few of touches?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Ours.
But it’s also hard to say who is #1, #2, or #3. The #1 option is the guy we complete the pass to really. Sometimes it’s welker, sometimes it’s not. Welker fits in this offense, because there is more than one guy that can do almost as much as welker can(ie. branch, woodhead, edelman, hernandez).
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
welker, for the purposes of targets is the #1 option in that offense too. the argument is welker vs. moore too and Moore doesn’t get nearly as many looks as Welker. (about 12 less total this year.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
that may have been if you DID include this season
to which I say: The pats target multiple guys now. Before it was only moss and welker, but now brady throws it to more than ust welker, which is the reason why he is no longer the sole receiver that gets the most forst downs on the pats roster.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
from 2007 to 2009
welker led the league in YAC. thats not tom brady thats not randy moss thats not the system thats wes welkers talent. another pointless arguement.
This is a serious question about Welker.
How has the new rule with moving the umpire hindered his route running across the middle? From what I have seen, he loved using that pick to get open.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
so does Peyton
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
That's a good one
I think they’ve got around it somewhat by using the new guys – especially Tate and the TE/WR Hernandez – to run picks just above Welker’s routes.
Hernandez especially is useful, because he’ll line up on the line, or in the slot, or in the backfield, and move around to wherever. If he’s set up to run a pick on Welker’s route, he’ll flex out to wherever they want him, so he can run out and chip any defenders on Welker. It’s worked fairly well thus far.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I really liked the Pats draft this season. They got a lot of players I would have loved to have here (Spikes, Hernandez, Deadrick).
But the Hernandez pick was genius. If you watched any UF games, you saw that whenever Florida last year, they went to Hernandez. As long as he stays away from the sticky icky, he will be a good one.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
he was the only gator i liked on that team...well..him and Cunningham
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
It was a two-fer
They took Gronkowski in the second (he was projected as a first until he hurt his back; he’s not had issues since). He’s a stud blocker, occasional receiver and bona fide End Zone thread. He’s a big lad – 6’7", 270lbs – and loves getting his hands dirty blocking.
It also frees up Hernandez to play a lot more in a Dallas Clark-like slot receiver role, where he excels because he’s not a natural blocker on the line.
I always wondered whether Ben Watson would fit better as a Dallas Clark-type because he’s ridiculously fast. He was good enough as a blocker, but at ~250 and 6’3" he’s nowhere near as physical as a Gronkowski is.
Having Gronk allows Hernandez to flex out.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
i still think ben watson running down champ bailey on that pick in the playoffs a couple of years ago is one of the most amazing football plays i’ve ever seen. for that reason alone i was stoked when the browns scooped watson.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 4, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
that was a great play by him
for a TE to chase down a CB diagonally…amazing…
funny…of the pics that used to be around the front office in MA…all of them were either TD’s or game winning FG…except for one…his play.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
Agreed wholeheartedly
Although as a Pats fan who followed his whole career, it irked me that the play he was most impressive on was basically a defensive play, considering he’s a TE.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with all of this…especially the fact that Watson would have thrived in a Clark-type role.
I loved the pickup of both Gronk and Hernandez and after that draft, I was truly lauding the genius of Belichick.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
he was 2nd and was only about 10 yards ahead of the 3rd. So its not like he was the dominant option.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Sorry, he lead in CATCHES:
Wes Welker 67 for 687 1 TD
Randy McMichael 62 for 640 3 TDs
Chris Chambers 59 for 677 4 TDs
Marty Booker 55 for 747 6 TDs
He’s not a #1 receiver, he’s a possession receiver, so catches are his deal.
He doesn’t have the talent to be a #1 option.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 3, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
DYAR (defense adjusted yards), 86; 2nd on the team.
DVOA (defense adjusted value per play), -1.1%; 3rd on the team behind the TE MichMichael.
his DYAR and DVOA are comparable to Deion Branch in 2006 who got 53 catches, 725 yards, and 4 TDs. he was only a slot option so he got less snaps, but he would at best, be as valuable as Deion Branch or Derrick Mason were that year…and this is excluding TDs I believe.
Thats another thing, Welker does nothing in the end zone. the TE had more TDs than him. If he gets 100 catches in a season, considering his catch/TD rate, he would only have 4 TDs. If you take out the one outlier year of 2007 where Brady got 50 TDs, it drops to 3. He is ineffective in the end zone, even for a possession guy.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
He had two TD catches in week 1 of this season.
Ie – his first game only 8 months after having his knee surgically repaired after tearing not one, but two knee ligaments.
He has 3 TDs on the season, and the Pats have only played 7 games thus far.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Ie – his first game only 8 months after having his
So? this proves nothing man
He has 3 TDs on the season
3 TDs in the first 2 games (2 in a huge blowout of Cincinnati). I will eat a pair of dirty socks if he gets another 3 this season. he hasn’t gotten any since and none since Moss left.
It is a SSS (though not significantly bigger than the 4 games this year moss was here), but since moss left, he is on pace for around 70 Catches and 550-560 yards. Thats comparable to Kevin Walter’s injury plagued 2009. If this is more than just a SSS, he definitely is overrated.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
he hasn’t gotten any since and none since Moss left.
He hasn’t been asked to – they have a 6’7" TE to throw to and a run-game that’s scored on every trip to the Red Zone in the last 2 weeks.
I just know teams like the Jets treat him as a threat and often tag their best CB (up to and including Darrelle Revis) to bang him around on the line. You don’t put your best CB on a guy who’s merely ‘okay’ as a slot receiver.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Thank you!(was about to reply)
Not only Gronk, but herndo, woodhead, branch, and edelman. When you have THIS many weapons, and teams focus mostly on welker, your other guys are going to get more production than welker most likely.
He’s still a big threat, and teams treat him that way. So we just throw to the other open guys to make them pay for it.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I just know teams like the Jets treat him as a threat and often tag their best CB (up to and including Darrelle Revis) to bang him around on the line
Before this season, Welker never saw Revis.
This is the exact point I am making. Moss and Brady created Welker.
You want to point out how many weapons the Pats have now, fine. That doesn’t change the fact that without Moss, Welker isn’t near the same player he was.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
He won't be putting up the same stats,
but Welkers skill suddenly diminishing because moss left doesn’t make sense.
We still have the same welker, it’s just that BECAUSE we no longer have moss, teams focus on him more(thus decreasing his stats), and opens up for the other guys.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I understand this, but that is what my issue is. Many people, not saying you, lavish all sorts of praise on Welker, but when the cookie crumbles, he is a guy who thrived as the safety/check down guy.
I’m not saying that the guy is worthless, I just don’t think he is a top 32 WR in the NFL.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Lavishing praise on Welker? From the very article YOU quoted:
The only problem for the Jets is that Revis could not cover Wes Welker and Moss at the same time. Though Revis did a solid job containing Moss, Welker had a field day against the rest of the Jets secondary, catching 15 passes for 192 yards.
“Welker and Brady, they’re a one-two punch,” Revis said. “They got the best of us. [Welker’s] a great player, and he beat us today.”
Darrelle Revis, he who called Randy Moss a ‘slouch’, says Wes Welker is a ‘great player’. But what does Revis know?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He didn’t cover him. I don’t know what else you want from me.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
he is def top 32
i would love for you to name 31 wr better then wes welker. he is def top 20 in the nfl. he had 123 catches in 13 games last year moss or no moss give me a break. from 2007 to 2009 he led the nfl in YAC. i agree 100 percent he isnt a superstar wr but overrated or as low as u are putting him is ridiculous.
It's like saying
Anquan Boldin is not that good either, and that he was a product of Larry Fitz.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
well…maybe his best season (his rookie seasons) was without Fitzgerald. And look at what he is doing now without Fitzgerald (and mason is nice, but Mason and Housh<<Fitzgerald and Breaston)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Wes Welker isn’t a number one WR in this league. Hence the top 32.
You can think different, but as he is showing us right now, he doesn’t have the talent to be a productive #1 WR in the NFL.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 5, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
But every team doesn’t have a “#1 WR”. The Browns certainly don’t, neither do the Rams or Bills or Raiders or many other teams. So just because you don’t think he’s a #1 WR, whatever that means, doesn’t mean there are 32 WR’s better than him because there aren’t 32 #1 WR’s in the NFL.
This is the problem with labeling someone a #1 WR, because that definition is so vague and meaningless. It’s like referring to a starting pitcher as a #1 or #2 guy. There aren’t 30 #1 starters in MLB, so just because a guy isn’t an ace doesn’t mean that he’s not a top 30 pitcher in baseball.
I don’t really want to get in to the argument about Welker’s value, because I really don’t care, but your logic is flawed.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 5, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I said that because I didn’t want to waste any time (mine or anyone else’s) listing the WR’s that I would take over Welker.
Honestly, I could easily name 50 WR’s I would take over Wes Welker.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 5, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
OK, that’s fine. I find it very hard to believe there are 50 WR’s better than Welker in the NFL but I’m not going to get involved in that discussion.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 5, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
In no particular order:
1. Santonio Holmes
2. Steve Johnson
3. Lee Evans
4. Braylon Edwards (SEE WHAT YOU MADE ME DO?!?!)
5. Jerrico Cotchery
6. Brandon Marshall
7. Davone Bess
8. Anquan Boldin
9. Derek Mason
10. Hines Ward (DAMNIT!)
11. Mike Wallace
12. MoMass
13. Josh Cribbs
14. Brad Smith
15. Ocho
16. T.O
17. Reggie Wayne
18. Austin Collie
19. Pierre Garcon
20. Kenny Britt
21. Randy Moss
22. Andre Johnson
23. Kevin Walter
24. Mike Sims-Walker
25. Mike Thomas
26. Dwayne Bowe
27. Vincent Jackson
28. Malcolm Floyd
29. Brandon Lloyd
30. Hakeem Nicks
31. Steve Smith (NYG)
32. Mario Manningham
33. DeSean Jackson
34. Jeremy Maclin
35. Santana Moss
36. Miles Austin
37. Dez Bryant
38. Greg Jennings
39. Percy Harvin
40. Roddy White
41. Marques Colston
42. Robert Meachum
43. Lance Moore
44. Mike Williams (TB)
45. Steve Smith (CAR)
46. Mark Clayton
47. Larry Fitz
48. Steve Breaston
49. Micheal Crabtree
50. Johnny Knox
That’s my list. Not saying you have to like it, but I would trade Welker straight up for anyone on that list.
(Derek Mason was the hardest one to put on there.)
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 5, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
hahaha thanks for the laugh
i cant even respond without trolling. but josh cribbs momass and brad smith really. thats enough i am out.
Without working knee ligaments, Welker isn’t the same player he was.
That’s an injury it takes two years to recover from; Welker had 8 months. He’s not 100%, and he says he doesn’t feel 100%, and he’s not producing to 100%. What an amazing coincidence that is…
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I’m not saying the knee injury isn’t part of it, but Randy Moss not trying/being there is a much bigger issue.
Maybe he will get healthy and improve, but I personally doubt it. No WR who exploded with Moss was able to do it post Moss.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
He hasn’t been asked to – they have a 6’7" TE to throw to and a run-game that’s scored on every trip to the Red Zone in the last 2 weeks.
so he hasn’t gotten significant looks since moss left. you say its because they have a good run game and good TEs. maybe its also the fact that he is overrated and maybe not the best offensive weapon on the team.
He is not an okay slot receiver. he is an excellent slot receiver but has significant limitation because he only fits the role of a “slot receiver” a slot receiver itself is merely a complementary piece to the puzzle.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
so he hasn’t gotten significant looks since moss left. you say its because they have a good run game and good TEs. maybe its also the fact that he is overrated and maybe not the best offensive weapon on the team.
It’s more than likely the former.
Think about this, ever since welker was injured in 2009, Brady was VERY ineffective against baltimore. Welker was his safety blanket, and he was gone. A bad offensive production is what he got out of it in return.
He is not an okay slot receiver. he is an excellent slot receiver but has significant limitation because he only fits the role of a "slot receiver" a slot receiver itself is merely a complementary piece to the puzzle.
That can be true. We do use him in the slot by the way, as well as sometimes on the edge.
Regardless of where he lines up though, his skill is still the same. If he DESTROYS people in the slot, then he’ll do good on the edge as well. Its like Having a #2 corner covering the slot. He’ll do VERY well, but he’ll still be a good performer on the #2 receiver. His skill had not changed at all.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
so Brady is very ineffective for one game without welker and suddenly its because welker is great? talk about small sample size.
Regardless of where he lines up though, his skill is still the same. If he DESTROYS people in the slot, then he’ll do good on the edge as well.
This is not entirely true. a WR on the edge calls for a different skill set to be effective and also generally is facing a different matchup.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
even though his skill set is VERY similar to hines ward? The only difference is that he is smaller really.
Yeah I know. Small sample size. It was the first, and last, game Brady payed without welker that season so I wanted to mention it.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I've seen welker get several screens and first down passes
on the edge this year.
You won’t see it as much as when moss was here, because we have a variety of other weapons.
Consider this too: We had moss through our first 4 games. The best game welker had, I believe, was the 1st one.
But then our coaches decide to use MORE of our weapons. We got Danny Woodhead as well.
Safe to say, that even WITH moss, welker wasn’t being targeted as much because other WRs and TEs were gettingmore open. And after moss left, our offense, as well as welker’s production, still remained the same.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
screen passes don’t truly measure a player’s ability to play on the edge. they are specifically designed as YAC plays for a guy to use his elusiveness and speed.
as well as welker’s production, still remained the same.
Actually, not. his production significantly dropped when moss left.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
And the Pats played better teams since Randy left.
Unless you’re wanting to say the Bills are in the same league as the Ravens, Vikings or Chargers defences?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
well the Jets have a good passing D and the bills are 6th in opponents passing yards per game.
Lets break it down to #s. the games without moss, the teams he played gave up similar stats to the #2 and slot WR, giving up a total (per game, added each ones per game average) of about 18 receptions and about 140 yards for 3 games. Welker during that time got 14 receptions and 102 yards. So his raw Defense adjusted yards were -38
During the 4 games with moss, teams averaged (through 4 games) giving up around 22 receptions and 170 yards to slot guys. he got 217 yards during that time (and 26 receptions) so thats +47 defense adjusted yards.
Statistically, he did significantly better with moss than without him, considering how well said teams do against a #2/Slot guy (considering he plays a bit of both)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I don't think we are arguing if he would put up the same number without moss.
we are arguing that welker still has the skills he had in 09, 08, and 07.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
he still has all the skills. I never said otherwise (which is confusing then why we would be arguing about it instead of what he would do without moss…so I think you might have tried to change the argument).
He definitely still has the skills, but how will those skills translate into production?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I would go back to try and quote but, this is WAY too long. lol
My main point was that welker’s skill is still the same with and without moss. His production will be low due to:
A) Added weapons
B) teams focus more on him now than before
but his skill set remains the same. Because his skill set remains the same, he is still considered a VERY good WR.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
You’re not taking into account how the Pats O changed outside of Moss.
For the first several games, the Pats had a RB tandem of Laurence Maroney and Fred Taylor, who were very ineffective.
Now the Pats have Danny Woodhead and BJGE running it with a lot more effectiveness in certain situations. However, they’re limited RBs, and the Pats are using Welker in a different way to make up the shortfall. It’s not good for Welker’s stats, but they’re using a lot more of the ‘long-handoff’ underneath passes to him to freeze LBs to allow the RBs to run.
It means Welker’s stats have gone down to some extent, but the run game overall (and Welker’s short passes are really extensions of the run game) has gone up.
BJGE ran all over the opposition last week, and a lot of that is the way Welker was putting pressure on the outside OLBs to take account of him in horizontal routes.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
the pats though are actually passing more (4 more times per game) since moss is gone. If the overall running game is used more and welker is an extension of the running game, shouldn’t those 4 more targets be going to welker? I am just confused at some contradictory stats here.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
The Pats picked up Danny Woodhead and used him since Moss left as a RB/WR – he’s basically a Welker clone.
They line Woodhead up at RB and flex him out to run Welker routes, so the extra passes are going to a Welker-type guy, just not necessarily Welker.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
okay. that explains some of it.
In the last 3 games, the team has thwon a total of 13 more passes than a 3 game average of pre-moss pats. Woodhead has 17 targets so he accounts for that, plus 5 more targets. So welker is getting 1-2 less targets per game which explains some of the dropoff but not all (if we are assuming that every single target woodhead got would have been intended for welker before him)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
True...
but every passing game is a game that the talented rookies – Hernandez, Gronkowski, Tate (who’s basically a rookie), Woodhead – have learned that system a little better.
They’ve also picked up another vet possession receiver in Deion Branch, who hit almost 9 catches for 100 yards receiving in his first game. That’s the shortfall.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
…but doesn’t the pickup of branch just replace the production of Moss? we are forgetting about him too.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Moss caught 9 receptions.
What production?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 5, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
140 yards and 3 TDs in 3 games (then one game where he didn’t do anything). thats still production.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
And he dropped another 5 passes and dropped 2 gimme TDs.
Branch made up for Randy’s 9 receptions in his first game, and you were the one going by number of receptions as the indicator of production.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 5, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Hines ward has a significantly upgraded skill set. I guess they are similar in the fact that they are both best over the middle, but ward can do so much more. Ward has always had more straight line speed and ability to separate deep.
Yes, he is smaller. that means he is less likely to win jump balls. he also doesn’t have the strength of Hines which helps him to beat press coverage. Ward is also a better leaper which combined with the height advantage he has, gives him about 6 more inches vertically that he can go u to get the ball (counting the advantage in vertical leap and height, but not even yet considering arm length and vertical reach). Ward is also one of the best in the league at fighting for the ball (I dunno how good welker is in this category).
Welker does not at all have the skill set of a hines ward and its these differences that make ward a very effective player on the edge.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I tell you this:
means he is less likely to win jump balls. he also doesn’t have the strength of Hines which helps him to beat press coverage. Ward is also a better leaper which combined with the height advantage he has, gives him about 6 more inches vertically that he can go u to get the ball (counting the advantage in vertical leap and height, but not even yet considering arm length and vertical reach). Ward is also one of the best in the league at fighting for the ball (I dunno how good welker is in this category).
Welker doesn’t have to win jump balls. He easily separates from his defender, and catches it in space.
He does have the strength of hines ward. He blocks like an animal.
doesn’t need to leap.
Welker is great at fighting for the ball.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
He does have the strength of hines ward. He blocks like an animal.
He is a good blocker, but I don’t think he has the strength of a ward.
Welker doesn’t have to win jump balls.
thats because he generally plays in the slot and when he plays on the edge, he is very often going across the middle or catching a screen. these types of routes don’t need jump ball skills or leaping skills, but to be a legitimate receiver outside of the slot, you do need those skills.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
thats because he generally plays in the slot and when he plays on the edge, he is very often going across the middle or catching a screen. these types of routes don’t need jump ball skills or leaping skills, but to be a legitimate receiver outside of the slot, you do need those skills.
Like i said above:
Welker doesn’t have to win jump balls. He easily separates from his defender, and catches it in space.
He doesn’t need to jump as much, because he usually catches when separated from his defender.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I am not disagreeing with you at all. I am saying he doesn’t need to for his role with the offense. However, Ward plays a more versatile role in the Steelers offense so he does need to win jump balls.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I was thinking in terms of physicality and separating from defenders.
in terms of shorter routes, welker beats ward imo.
long routes, I think ward will have the upper hand.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
shorter routes, Welker>Ward
Medium Ward>>Welker
Deep (even now) Ward>>>>Welker
I won’t deny that Welker has the upper hand in short routes.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
ummm... welker Would probably be tied with medium routes.
he does sometimes run more than 10 yards deep, and he mostly gets the catches.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
so Brady is very ineffective for one game without welker and suddenly its because welker is great?
Yes. In a sport where it’s all about playoff performances, the fact your offence splutters when you don’t have your go-to guy says a lot.
You’re saying Welker isn’t good because he hasn’t performed in the four games since Moss left, yet you’re going to say that Brady not being good for the playoff game that Welker wasn’t available means nothing. Well done.
Playoff appearances mean more than 4 regular season games. Just ask Superbowl MVP Deion Branch after 3 seasons of mediocrity in Seattle.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
You’re saying Welker isn’t good because he hasn’t performed in the four games since Moss left, yet you’re going to say that Brady not being good for the playoff game that Welker wasn’t available means nothing
didn’t say it means nothing, but yes. You want to know why? Look at what tom brady was before wes welker. He was an all pro QB who was already close to being a first ballot HOFer (if not already considered one). Before brady? Welker was a solid, but unspectacular slot receiver.
Plus, the sample size for the absence of Moss is 4 times the size of the one bad game brady had.
Playoff appearances mean more than 4 regular season games
No. a game is a game. If a QB has one bad game without a WR but it happens to be a playoff game, it doesn’t weigh more than a WRs 4 games while not playing next to a possible HOF WR. that is not effective empirical analysis.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
If a QB has one bad game without a WR but it happens to be a playoff game, it doesn’t weigh more than a WRs 4 games while not playing next to a possible HOF WR. that is not effective empirical analysis.
And that’s where a fan of a team that wins a lot of playoff games might disagree with a fan of a team that does not.
Pats fans don’t generally rate seasons by stats, they do it by playoff victories.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Pats fans don’t generally rate seasons by stats, they do it by playoff victories.
thats all fine and dandy, but that shouldn’t mean you should ignore sample size. the game might mean more to you as a fan, but thats subjective. In a vacuum, looking at statistics, it has less meaning than the games welker has played without moss…and aren’t we arguing statistics?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Joe J was a beast of a slot receiver for us. We called him Mr. 3rd down. Doesn’t mean we would have been good lined up as #1 or #2.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Nov 5, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I just don’t anything special.
I think he is a decent WR who can beat LB’s in small areas. Put a player with actual talent (Harvin) and you would see something very special.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 2, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s still early for Harvin, but I think Wes Welker is better.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
I’m inclined to agree with you. It’s no coincidence Harvin exploded when Moss came to the Vikings.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 2, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I think all slot receivers benefit...
…from an elite deep threat. Davone Bess, Percy Harvin and Wes Welker all play their best when the field is stretched with a big threat. Are they great players? Is the scheme what makes them great? Does that fact that they’re great because of the scheme make them less of a great player?
by Richard Hill on Nov 2, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the answer to the first question depends a lot on how the defense reacts to them and whether or not they are still able to make plays or open things up for other people.
I don’t think scheme can make anyone great. The best that coaches in the NFL can hope for is to get their players in good matchups. No one gets wide open in the NFL because of scheme (perhaps the confusion a scheme causes, but that’s another issue).
I don’t think stats can answer these questions. I that great WRs are able to beat you all game or force you to spend more defensive attention on them. They will keep working hard even when the coverage takes them out of the progression. So if Welker is opening things up for guys on the outside in the absence of Moss (and if he isn’t sulking like Moss while doing it), that puts him above “good” to me.
If we are talking all-time greatness, it might be another story.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Welker could have 10 straight 100 catch seasons
and he still wouldn’t get put in the HOF.
He good, but he’s not flashy, and he incites these types of arguments.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 3, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I would take him on the Browns in an instant. He isn’t Andre Johnson though.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
With our receiving corps, saying that we would take him is not really saying much. By the way, I’m a Welker fan and dissent from the (apparently) prominent view here that he is overrated.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 4, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont think he is a superstar in the moss/rice/johnson mold
i think he gets a little too much credit for his stats or because for the last 3 years he has been in the perfect situation with the pats offense moss and so on. i know that adds prob 25 percent of production for him. but he is better then some on here are portraying and would be a huge fan favorite anywhere he played cause he catches almost everything and takes huge hits and gets right back up. he is 8 months removed from blowing up his knee he isnt 100 percent yet. all i am saying is he is a very good slot reciever and a very good football player.
I that great WRs are able to beat you all game or force you to spend more defensive attention on them.
In 2008 and 2009 the Jets put Darrelle Revis on Welker in one-on-one matchups. Not Revis on Moss; Revis on Welker. What does that suggest?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
That he’s Brady’s outlet because Moss takes up half the CBs normally on the field.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions
He did rotate on welker at times in the game.
It’s just that NY wants to keep Revis’s reputation as the best corner in the league(Which Nnamdi hold imo). Also they wanted a major positive from that game.
Don’t ALWAYS trust news sites as sources for sports. There can be a lot of bias, lack of primary sources, and something else that I forgot. lol
I learned this in English Comp when my teacher was talking to us about the reliability of sources. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I don’t believe the NY Post has any interest on protecting Revis’ reputation.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
OH you have no idea.
They praise the HELL out of him in NY.
BUt anyways, it’s not really about protecting revis, but more out of trying to gain a positive from that game.
They are not going to say that revis covered moss, and sometimes welker. IT doesn’t seem very positive when you say, “Revis covered Moss all game, and took him out.”
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I seriously have no idea why you think a newspaper cares about gaining a positive out of a game. Outrage and controversy sell more papers.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
BAD news sells. yes.
But would NY Jets fans REALLY read a column that has NOTHING but negatives from a game? Wouldn’t you WANT to fit in a positive, to keep them reading and interested?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
It’s New York.
Everything there is negative.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
there would be easier positives to find if they really wanted to, but I still doubt they did.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Fair enough I guess.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Hah, selective reading
a) the Pats face the Jets at least twice a year, as divisional rivals. You picked the one game where Revis covered Moss… and Welker killed the Jets.
And from that very same article:
The only problem for the Jets is that Revis could not cover Wes Welker and Moss at the same time. Though Revis did a solid job containing Moss, Welker had a field day against the rest of the Jets secondary, catching 15 passes for 192 yards.
“Welker and Brady, they’re a one-two punch,” Revis said. “They got the best of us. [Welker’s] a great player, and he beat us today.”
Boy. Revis says Welker is “a great player”. But, of course, Revis is known for being super-complimentary to opposing WRs…
You know what Revis said about Moss? That Moss is “a slouch”.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I think Revis covered welker a bit as well that game though.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I haven’t seen anything from Wes Welker that makes me think he is better than Davone Bess.
I think that Welker was in the right place at the right time. Any decent player could walk into that position, with those surrounding pieces, and put up 100 catches.
Look at what Julian Edelmen did replacing Welker. I’m not saying Welker isn’t horrible, I just think he is an average WR who was in the center of the perfect storm for a slot guy. If it was Bess who benefited, I am sure Bess would have posted those numbers. Same for Edelman, Robiskie (I SAID IT!), etc.
Place a truly special talent in that spot, ala Harvin, and you would see some truly fantastic things. Too bad Childress is a moron.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 3, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
…and bess has possibly been better than welker this year without tom brady and finally having a #1 WR on his team.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
did bess tear up his knee 8 months ago?
look is wes andre johnson or jerry rice or larry fitzgerald no he isnt. does moss help him of course he does to think he doesnt is ridiculous. but to say he is overrated i dont think is fair either i think he is rated just fine as one of the best slot wr in league when fully healthy. when he gets to 100 percent we shall find out how good he is. my estimate for welker without moss is still approx 70 to 80 catches around a 1000 yards and a few tds not too shabby from a slot reciever. if he was on the browns u would love him trust me the dude can play ball.
He kind of annoyed me when he was on Tosh.0 though. I doubt he ever wins me back from that stunt.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I think its fair because people look at his stats and rank him one of the best overall WRs in the league. He is probably the league’s best slot receiver but thats like saying you are the league’s best change of pace back or the NBA’s best energy forward. it generally has little meaning.
1,000 yards with 70-80 catches. thats 12.5 yards per reception.in a year where he got significant looks on offense, as a slot receiver, he has never averaged more than 11 ypc.
So I see more like about 850 yards with 80 catches or 70 catches and just under 800 yards. I will agree with you on catches. without moss, his catches likely drop about 30. However, they are still inflated due to the offense and Tom Brady.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
What are you saying about Edelman?
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 3, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
i had high hopes for edelman this season
and for 1 reason or another he hasnt had the impact i or many fans were hoping for. started the season a little nicked up then got healthy and hasnt produced in limited chances so far. i think he is a great athlete and was amazed on how quickly he picked up the wr position last year he is still learning i am sure i still have high hopes for him in the future.
You usually don’t see people back to their normal speed until they are ~2 years out from that surgery, but people can play about 6-9months out from it.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Indeed
Which is why Pats fans were blown away when Welker scored 2 TDs in his very first game of the season back after injury.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
TDs for WRs are largely due to circumstance. I am not really impressed by TDs alone as a stat for WRs.
If he was breaking tackles and running away from people en route to 60 yard TD catches, that’s another story, but that sort of thing isn’t covered in normal stats.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
True, although I think the fact he was on the field was remarkable, and that he was on the field often enough to score twice even more so.
Put it this way – the PatsPulpit faithful at the time of the injury were envisioning Welker being on IR for all of 2010. After there was news he was recovering well, even the most optimistic thought he’d be on the PUP-list until week 8 or so. I don’t think anybody envisioned him playing full-time and scoring 2 TDs in week 1.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 5, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That isn’t anything special. He was a creation of Moss.
Actually, that’s not entirely true.
Only one player in NFL history, Gale Sayers, had more all-purpose yards in his first three NFL seasons than Welker did with the Dolphins; Welker holds the Dolphins’ all-time records for total kickoff returns, kickoff return yardage, and total punt returns.
One player in NFL history was more productive overall than Welker in his first 3 years in the NFL. If you’re counting, that means he actually got more yards in his first 3 years than Randy Moss did in his. Go figure.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Randy Moss didn’t return kicks.
Also, that just means he was the best return man on the team, which doesn’t really say a whole lot. total returns means nothing about Welker, it means his team scored a lot, and if he had the most total returns, he damn well better have the most yards.
It’s an interesting statistic, but it doesn’t really mean much.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Randy Moss didn’t return kicks.
Yes he did. He returned 18 punts in 1998 – 2000, and 2 kick-offs in 2002 – 2004. Of course, that’s not where his value lies.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 4, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
ok, when I say he didn’t return kicks, I meant that it wasn’t close to his primary job. 20 total returns in 6 years seems to say he was doing it in emergencies only. Moss was too busy being one of the best receivers in the league to return kicks.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 4, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
ok, it is actually interesting to me that he he returned kicks at all.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
wow…you are really going to argue that 12 years ago he returned 18 punts so he is a kick returner.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
No. Has returned kicks != kick returner.
He’s done it.
He hasn’t made a living off of it.
A lot of young players start as returners until they prove their worth on the field. He proved his early, so they didn’t really use him there much.
Is it my imagination, or are there a lot of edgy people on this site that are looking for arguments where there are none.
I’ve never had this experience on any other SB Nation site.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 4, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
To be clear.
Welker has kicked off, and kicked field goals.
(So has Ochocinco)
They’re not kickers.
Cassel has punted.
He’s not a punter.
Glad I could clear the air.
Good luck on Sunday, and I hope neither team has injuries.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 4, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No problem. Just a little different.
Used to just chatting, and now it feels a bit more like a cross-examination.
It’s all good.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 4, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Trust me, many of us here get annoyed by these kinds of arguments.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 4, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s quite a change of atmosphere.
You come in here with stats about x or y, and not only do they rip whatever you bring as meaningless, but your entire integrity or sense of logic is being questioned by daring to bring such meaningless things as facts to the board…
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I have skipped a lot of the arguments above, but stats are sometimes just numbers without a whole lot of meaning. I really don’t think you can assess Welker’s greatness/lack thereof without breaking down large amounts of film, which no one has done.
I think BK19 has admitted that he just has a personal dislike for Welker, which I think is legit. I think he is a little overrated because people gravitate to more productive players in better offenses, but he’s a very good NFL player.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
A quick summary of what I believe makes Welker "great" (and then I'll stop)
Welker had more total yardage than anyone in their first 3 years of an NFL career (except for Gale Sayers), but apparently that doesn’t count, because most of it was Punt and Kick return yardage for the ’Phins.
So I point out that he’s had 3 consecutive 100 catch, 1100 yard seasons (which only he and Brandon Marshall have done), and apparently that doesn’t count because he was playing with Randy Moss, which makes Welker more productive than his talent warrants.
So I point out that Randy Moss’s three most productive consecutive seasons came playing opposite Wes Welker.
At the very least, Welker should get props for being in perhaps the best 1-2 WR tandem around, certainly post-2000. At most, Welker should be elevated into the status of a ‘great’ WR. He’ll never make the Hall of Fame, but how many WRs can say they made Randy Moss better?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 5, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I think BK19 has admitted that he just has a personal dislike for Welker, which I think is legit.
This is true. He slept with my wife.
No, he didn’t.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 6, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Welker hangs out with Playboy Bunnies, and Ashley Dupree (of Eliot Spitzer fame)
Although that’s probably just giving you another reason to hate the guy.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
his mom didn’t like the fact he went to the mansion
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
that’s hilarious. This actually elevates my opinion of the guy.
Let me also say this, because I’m not sure it’s been clear. I have zero problem with Wes Welker. My main problem is the media. I can’t fault you fans for having a very high opinion of the guy. I mean, we think Peyton Hillis is the best thing since sliced bread. But the media treatment of the guy is what annoys me.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I agree. He is not a bad player, but is a ridiculous media darling.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
(question mark)
Over here, I hardly hear anything on welker… It’s mostly about the surprise of our defense, some numbers, offensive efficiency, who looked good, who didn’t.
I hardly hear anything on welker.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I don’t want to start another 500 post argument. suffice to say i disagree with you.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
okay. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Sign me up for that category. I am one that “Z’s” right through these kind of talks, just happened to see your comment and thought I would weigh in.
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 4, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, he has done it. that doesn’t mean he is a “Kick returner” (i.e. a player responsible for catching kickoffs/punts). He was an emergency returner for ONE YEAR and the guys in front of him got down. thats like saying josh cribbs is our emergency RB or QB. Moss is as much a returner as cribbs is a QB.
Is it my imagination, or are there a lot of edgy people on this site that are looking for arguments where there are none.
pot calling the kettle black? NTN says that he didn’t return kicks. You retort with pointing out that he returned 20 total punts and kicks in his career. you in fact agreed with NTN and I was pretty much saying the same thing, just a bit snarkier :)
Maybe its you who is edgy and looking for arguments where there is none.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Not calling the kettle black
He said he didn’t return kicks (not that he wasn’t a kick returner by trade), I showed he did. A little trivia.
He said he meant it wasn’t his primary job, at which point I agreed. It wasn’t. Arguing it was would be stupid.
You came along after I agreed and said,
“wow…you are really going to argue that 12 years ago he returned 18 punts so he is a kick returner.”
I wasn’t arguing any such thing. I was just bringing up a piece of trivia that many people (at least in New England) didn’t know: Randy Moss returned kicks and punts.
I like trivia (see my sig). I wasn’t being argumentative. I’ve been trying to interact as nicely as possible. I even quit using the title block in the replies (when I remember) because Bernie19Kosar said you don’t use them over here.
When in Rome….
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 4, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
irrelevant trivia is what really started all this mess.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Hahaha. Ok.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 4, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
bross, stop it. He never called him a kick returned, he just responded to NTN’s comment. Your comment was both completely wrong and in a snarky tone that wsn’t necessary. You need to stop attacking all these Pats fans who are just here talking football. You’re making all of use Browns fans look bad.
He wasn’t looking for an argument at all, he just responded to someone’s comment. You need to tone down the attitude.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 4, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
+1000000
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
i want your dog....he/she looks so cute!!!
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
You wouldn’t want him, he’s a Browns dog through and through. He’s my couch companion on game days and even howls when (and that’s a rare when) something good happens and I start cheering. Sorry, not gonna give him up!
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
You need to stop attacking all these Pats
I really am not. I lashed back when this guy said I am looking for arguments which I am certainly not.
saying someone else is looking for an argument in itself is often fishing for a divergence to ad hominems.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
wow…you are really going to argue that 12 years ago he returned 18 punts so he is a kick returner.
That comment you made most definitely made it sound like you were looking for arguments, because he never said that. So why don’t you just admit you were wrong and apologize instead of continuing to argue about it.
You (but not just you) have been involved with meaningless arguments with these Pats fans in this entire thread, and you are attacking them for no reason. Once again, please stop this because you are making us look bad. Remember how you said a few weeks ago that the Bengals blog was full of idiots? Well, you’re making us look the same way right now. Just stop.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
I didn’t mean to fish for arguments. I didn’t want to fish for arguments and I am sorry if many saw it that way. That was my fault and I am sorry.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
…and Josh cribbs has only 1,000 less APY in his first years and he didn’t play WR in any significant role. You can rack up a ton of APY just by being a return guy on punts and kickoffs.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Point being what? Josh Cribbs is a threat every time he gets near the ball. I don’t care whether he’s a PR or KR or Wildcat QB or WR or is just standing there hoping someone hands it to him, Forrest Gump-style, he’s a legitimate game-changing threat.
If you’re going to try to rip Wes Welker by comparing him to Josh Cribbs, I need not say anything. Cribbs is perhaps the most talented and dangerous footballer on the Browns roster, and putting he and Welker in the same league actually makes any argument I may or may not wish to pursue for me. Thanks.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Point being what?
point being that someone pointed out that Welker as he is today is a creation of moss. you counter with his work in Miami which was mostly special teams. not only is this irrelevant but it doesn’t prove jack squat about his ability as a WR.
Josh cribbs is a great returner. Wes welker was a very good special teams player. However, we were never arguing special teams and we diverted from that once you started talking about his ST play and comparing him to sayers (who did much more in his first 3 years outside of ST)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
How many 100+ catch seasons must a guy get to be considered a WR?
Jeez.
If he has all sorts of records as a special teamer, he’s clearly got NFL-quality athleticism and physical gifts.
If he’s got 3 consecutive 100+ catch seasons (something only he and Brandon Marshall have done, by the way), then he’s clearly more of a WR in the way that Devin Hester or Dante Hall weren’t.
What else must the guy do? He’s not allowed a slight down year after coming back from a horrible injury?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If he has all sorts of records as a special teamer, he’s clearly got NFL-quality athleticism and physical gifts.
yeah, but that doesn’t automatically mean he can be a 100+ catch receiver without help.
you don’t get the randy moss effect do you. Marcus Robinson, Nate Burleson, Dwayne Bates. they all had inflated stats when playing next to moss.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
As did Percy Harvin...
Does that mean Harvin’s a sub-standard WR, too?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Did moss make Chris Carter?
Or was chris carter playing very good before moss went there?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
comparing apples and hand grenades there, man.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 4, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
please, please, please, stop putting words in people’s mouths. Nobody is saying Welker is a sub-standard WR. In fact, most of us have been saying he is clearly above average.
It means Harvin benefited from Moss. It means Harvin is good but not great, just like Welker.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
At what point can you say a WR is great? I’d have thought three consecutive 100+ catch seasons (which only two receivers have done, ever) constitutes.
The Pro Bowl voters have agreed in recent years. I’m not saying he’s Jerry Rice, but at some point he’s just so productive you have to tag him with ‘greatness’. Doubly so when he’s even more productive in playoffs (which is when Randy shrunk, even in the 2007 super-team run).
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
please don’t use pro-bowl voters as support for your argument. David Garrard was a pro-bowler last year.
He has certainly piled up receptions, no doubt about it. There is definitely something to be said for a guy who can do that as consistently as Welker, and he deserves some praise.
but Colt Brennan put up some pretty ridiculous stats, and nobody thought much of him. He thrived because of the system he played in, and everyone knew it.
I’m not saying circumstances have had as big of an affect on Welker’s stats, but to think that he hasn’t been extremely lucky involves some rose-colored glasses.
I don’t think we’re going to get anywhere on this, and only time will tell who is right. I appreciated the discussion, but we should probably leave it here. Good luck on sunday (but not too good).
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
in regards to Colt Brennan
he hasn’t played a regular season snap. He only played pre-season.
http://www.nfl.com/players/coltbrennan/profile?id=BRE307886
Unless I have misunderstood you?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
sorry, I meant in college.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
There ya go! ;)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
please don’t use pro-bowl voters as support for your argument. David Garrard was a pro-bowler last year
Only as an injury replacement; Welker was in as first-string despite being on IR. Garrard was what, fifth string?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Let me put it another way. Just because people vote you to an all-star game doesn’t make you good. Derek Jeter started the all-star game this year and he was awful all season.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
True
But Welker did it without inflated TD stats. That’s saying something – voters recognised him as a clutch third-down performer instead of just some recipient of TD bombs like a few other players.
Voters love INTs and TDs – which is why route-jumping awful CBs like Asante Samuel go to Pro Bowls. Welker didn’t have either.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I think it’s far more likely that there are a lot of Patriot fans out there who voted for their guy and didn’t really care about who deserved it. See Jeter as an example again.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Randy Moss got to the Pro Bowl, too...
Which suggests there are so many Pats fans that they can split their votes on WRs and still get their guys elected…
That, or they actually earned it. Either/or.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
But Welker did it without inflated TD stats. That’s saying something – voters recognised him as a clutch third-down performer instead of just some recipient of TD bombs like a few other players.
now you are just making certain statistics have less merit just for the sake of your argument. TDs HAVE merit, and the problem is welker stops being effective when its time to get a score. that means he would have to be either taken out of the game or the D would cover him less. How often does welker get it on a quick screen for his TDs or how often does no one cover him b/c he is barely a threat and he gets a TD?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Belichick gameplans for the other team’s weaknesses.
He clearly saw the Bengals as having a weak Red Zone edge defence against screens, drew up several plays, and got two Welker TDs out of it.
Welker’s very useful in the Red Zone, because he runs underneath checkdown reads and can score from them (as he did in Week 2). Randy (and now Gronkowski) are primary Red Zone reads and Brady often finds them first time. That’s partly because Randy and Gronk are great, and partly because Brady is Brady.
The fact that Brady is good enough to find his #1 option doesn’t mean Welker isn’t good, it means that when Brady does have to use his checkdown and his checkdown scores (4 or 5 TDs a season or so), it’s because Welker turned a broken play into a scoring one.
That’s a sign of weakness? Turning a checkdown into a TD?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
have to use his checkdown and his checkdown scores (4 or 5 TDs a season or so), it’s because Welker turned a broken play into a scoring one.
That’s a sign of weakness? Turning a checkdown into a TD?
Oh, its definitely a strength to turn a checkdown into a TD. however, you kinda proved my point that he is only at best a checkdown option in the end zone.
I am not saying he can’t make plays in the RZ, but those are strictly limited to checkdowns and screens.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Oh, its definitely a strength to turn a checkdown into a TD. however, you kinda proved my point that he is only at best a checkdown option in the end zone.
Keep in mind, that that’s because of Gronk, BJGE, Woodhead, and sometimes Branch.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
So what?
He’s 5’7". Of course he’s going to be the underneath option.
And that’s not necessarily the case even then – check the Danny Woodhead TD against the ‘Phins, and you’ll see Randy Moss and Wes Welker drawing a CB and S each in the End Zone, and Woodhead on a horizontal route who turns it upfield into a TD. Welker was being treated like a primary read by the defence, so Brady picked out a Welker-clone underneath who scampered in.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Welker was being treated like a primary read by the defence,
that doesn’t mean he will be effective catching in the EZ like a primary read or that he can work downfield like a primary read. Its smart to cover welker like he is a primary read because if he gets a pass in a way that plays to his strengths, he is a good primary read.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
If he’s not effective catching in the EZ like a primary read, then the ’Phins DC is negligent because his defence treated Welker like he was capable.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
because he is covered when running a primary option does not mean that he is always very effective in the EZ on these plays. he is productive enough that a DC should have a guy on him wherever he goes on the field.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
well, at this point he is only a slot guy but is not a substandard WR, nor is Welker. However, Welker still had tom Brady. Look at how bad Brett Favre was. that is not at all a valid comparison b/c Welker still had Brady and Harvin had Favre’s suckitude.
(Plus, lets not forget we are comparing a 2nd year player who was less removed from recent health issues to a veteran in his prime)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
You know Wes Welker’s best season came with Matt Cassel throwing at him, right?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
that is irrelevant to comparing 2010 Harvin to 2010 Favre. we are not comparing 2008 welker. we are comparing welker this year to harvin this year.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
However, Welker still had tom Brady.
In 2008, Welker didn’t have Brady, and still put out a 110 catch, 1100 yard season.
we are comparing welker this year to harvin this year.
Sure. Let’s start off the comparison by looking at which of them is coming off extensive knee surgery. Ding ding ding!
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
…and which one had serious migrane headaches that almost kept him out of games but he played through them.
In my opinion, the better QB play affects welker more than the lack of 100% explosiveness from the surgery.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
In my opinion, the better QB play affects welker more than the lack of 100% explosiveness from the surgery.
And in Wes Welker’s and Tom Brady’s opinion, you’re wrong.
I’m bored of this. If a WR getting three consecutive 100 catch, 1100 yard seasons (which only two guys have done) isn’t ‘great’, I don’t know what is.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
its great stats but doesn’t represent great player. NTN brought up Graham Harrell in college. I give you Kyle Orton so far this year. Welker and orton are both solid talents and quite good players, but they are probably not “great” even though they have great stats.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
How long does he need to string great stats together to be considered great?
You’d think three record-setting consecutive seasons would seal it – one season’s by definition a one-off, consecutive seasons you have to think he’s consistent, three seasons of it was unprecedented (Brandon Marshall gave his third consecutive 1000 yard season in the same timeframe of Welker).
Is Brandon Marshall a ‘great’ receiver? And if so, why don’t you rip Marshall for having Cutler as a QB?
This is it. I can’t be bothered pursuing this further. But it still stands that there are two guys with three consecutive 1000 yard seasons. Did it help to have Randy Moss on the other side? Sure.
But Randy’s been in the league 12? 13? years and none of the other WRs he’s played with had three consecutive 1000 yard seasons. Nor has any WR that played opposite Jerry Rice, Terrell Owens, Chad Jackson/Ochocinco, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, or any other premier WR you’d care to name.
Also, turn it on its head. Randy Moss had his three most productive years (2007-2009) playing opposite Wes Welker. He caught 43 TDs in 1998-2000; he caught 47 playing opposite Welker.
That’s it. I hope your DC and HC don’t think Welker’s great, either. It’ll be fun watching him eat single-coverage if he gets it. Hell, tag a slot receiver on him. Haha.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How long does he need to string great stats together to be considered great?
If he can put up 80-90+ catches and 900+ yards without moss, yeah thats all that would do it. its just hard for me to believe he is more than an excellent slot WR who was a product of a great situation until I see him produce when the situation worsens.
Also, turn it on its head. Randy Moss had his three most productive years (2007-2009) playing opposite Wes Welker. He caught 43 TDs in 1998-2000; he caught 47 playing opposite Welker.
Didn’t you try to at one point shrug off TDs as a stat with little meaning? Maybe that was someone else but I am pretty sure that was you.
I disagree anyways. what is worth more, one TD catch per season or 132 yards (the average amount of yards more he got)? I would take the 132 yards because by simply knowing that a football field is 100 yards, 132 is more than enough needed for 1 TD.
years and none of the other WRs he’s played with had three consecutive 1000 yard seasons
then welker is maybe better than a lot of them, which I wouldn’t doubt. there were a couple WRs that got 700ish yards next to moss but were out of the league a couple years later.
Burleson also put up a 1000 yard season but was gone the next year, Moss left (and burleson kinda sucked). they never got 3 years together, but burleson has developed into a good WR. He is the only one I would say could have put up 3 consecutive if he played 3 consecutive with him. Then again, I don’t think Burleson is better than welker so there you go.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Wes Welker is a good kick returner.
That doesn’t prove that he isn’t a creation of Moss.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
wow bernie
with all due respect you couldnt be wronger. welker def gains some stats fromm having moss in the lineup. but leading the nfl in yac and haveing 3 100 catch seasons takes talent no matter who is on the team. 123 catches last year in 13 games.
the YAC is a function of where he catches the ball, not some amazing skill.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 5, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
The YAC stat doesn’t hold much water with me.
Let’s say he catches 100 screen passes for 800 yards with 8.0 YAC. Andre Johnson catches 100 passes for 1600 yards but has 2.0 YAC.
Do you see why I don’t use YAC as a measuring stick for WR’s?
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 5, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
agree to disagree
all due respect , win lose or draw on sunday i now hope welker torches the browns….. bottom line wes welker to a patriot fan is a fan favorite cause we see him week in and week out . we know how good he is we see the heart and the great plays he makes week in and week out. did moss help him yes did brady help him yes . this year welkers knee isnt 100 percent so we wont know till he is healthy how much the moss effect has on him my guess not as much as u suggest and not as little as i do. good luck on sunday .
Is there a concern about this being a trap game? Listening to the sports talk, I sense that New England fans are overlooking Cleveland – a lot of Mangini trashing and smug confidence given “the best record in the league”. While it is different in the lockerrooom, it’s hard to overlook this as the epitome of a trap game.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Nov 2, 2010 8:28 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Nah, I don't see that happening.
We trash Mangini because we dislike how he left the organization, not because of the team he’s associated with. We’ll be happy to see him do poorly regardless of what team he’s with. This team still follows the “one week at a time” mantra and won’t overlook the Browns.
We’re definitely seeing this as a trap game, especially due to how the Browns play up to their competition’s level.
by Richard Hill on Nov 2, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
especially due to how the Browns play up to their competition’s level.
I think this is a way of saying we aren’t as bad as our record indicates. We have had a tough schedule.
roger dorn
i agree with that if u look they were in most of the games and they are in a really tough stretch right now. they will be prepared and it will be a close game.
i dont believe in trap games as much as the next guy
and i know bb knows that cleveland can beat them if they arent prepared. cleveland is coming off a bye week has had 2 weeks to prepare and is playing at home and just took the defending super bowl champs to the woodshed. mangini knows bb system another advantage for cleveland mangini has beaten the pats before. bb has purged this lockerroom has gotten rid of some bad apples adalius thomas . shawn springs, moss to a extent not as bad as the others. and he has drafted a lot of captains of major college teams last couple seasons if that was just a coinky dink i am not sure i would like to think bb put a little more stock into getting goo football players that have a history of leading. zoltan mesko was a captain as a punter that doesnt happen too often. this team has a 2001 feel to me i am not saying the ending is going to be the same i am saying week to week they find a new way to win and are playing better then the sum of the parts. i think i saw a stat that cleveland has beat the last 3 defending champs so they get up for big games !!!!
i dont believe in trap games as much as the next guy
I think a lot of people believe in “trap games” – so I’m not seeing your point on this.
From my POV, your response brims of confidence – which is a leading cause of good teams getting caught in a trap game. In this case, the Pats are coming off a high-profile win over Minny and have (arguably) the best team in the NFL (Pittsburgh) approaching next week, while the Browns had the bye week and consider this game to be the biggest on its schedule for several weeks (I think the Mangini-BB feud still trumps the history with the Jets).
Don’t get me wrong – the confidence is not misplaced. The Patriots have earned the “best record” in football the right way, by defeating some good opponents. I’m not predicting a Browns victory. I just think that trap games are a psychological fact of the schedule and it is very difficult for human beings to automatically have perfect focus…
Good points about the Pats drafting character-guys. The Browns are trying to imitate that approach, and we are finally feeling good about the team being on the right path.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
IIRC, we were the closest to beating them in their Perfect regular season.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
i disagree they were close
but i would say the ravens were the closest.
philly, colts, jets (2nd game-maybe)
plus i think…just my opinion….BB didn’t want to embarrasses Romeo
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
Can’t be that. Browns had the ball down one possession before a turnover for a TD that made the game wider margin than it was.
IIRC, we were the closest to beating them in their Perfect regular season.
Wow. Your memory fails you. We played a decent game against them that year, but we really were not close to beating them. There were several that were much closer — especially, as mentioned, the Ravens and also the Giants on the last regular season game on a Sunday night (I think).
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 2, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Not as many as you are exaggerating it to be.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200710070nwe.htm
We lost 34-17. We were down 20-0 at halftime and 20-3 at the end of the 3rd quarter. I don’t see how that can be classified as being close to beating them.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
Or even close to “the closest to beating them.”
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Nov 2, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, hey look, BB replied to me.
Peyton Hillis is my Hero.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
And so did two other people to also say that you were wrong. Yet, somehow, you still can’t admit it and instead complain about me replying to you as if I’m the only one.
Do you realize that every time someone show you that you’re wrong, you get all defensive and complain that people are picking on you? You were wrong, just admit it. It’s not that hard, and people will take you a lot more seriously if you do.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
No, people don’t, you do.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, out of all the trams they thrashed that year, the fact the Browns came as close as they did, with only the amount of teams ahead of us that have been mentioned is still admirable and does not necessarily consider me wrong. We still came close for what we were and how they were beating others.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
what we were was a 10-6 team that was down 20-0 at the half and 20-3 going into the 4th quarter.
The Jets, Giants, Ravens, and Eagles games were all clearly much closer and those teams had a .438 winning %, which drops to a .375 winning % when you take out the 10-6 giants.
I don’t see at all what you mean.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
And once more, where have you been? I definitely do my fair share of admitting I’m wrong around here. You just nitpick at the things I stay adamant about because apparently that’s wrong and it discourages discussion and what not I guess.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 2, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh no. BB, you broke the rules. How dare you comment on an SB post. And then you broke the cardinal rule and SAID HE WAS WRONG! msdfjkdfhgoien!
I, for one, am ashamed. You should know better by now.
Precisely. Thank you for your sarcasm.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 3, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh no problem.
Just curious… In your mind, does this mean I’ve joined the witchhunt for SpecialBrownie that can’t reply to something of yours without being accused of following you around just for the sake of pointing out everything wrong that you say?
You were high on my list you it’s going to take you a while to slide but you are slowly but surely doing so.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 3, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok.
All joking and sarcasm aside… It seems to me like you were wrong and BB (along with 2 other people, btw) pointed it out. It seems more productive (to me, anyway) to just say something like “You know, we were down 20-3 at the end of the 3rd quarter and we lost 34-17. Maybe we weren’t as close as I thought we were or closer than every other team.” or even “well, we can just agree to disagree” instead of pointing out that big bad BB is commenting on something you said again.
From where I’m sitting, when he says you’re wrong (and a lot of the times I’ve seen it he hasn’t been the only one to say you’re wrong), it’s normally for a pretty good reason. It seems like he’s pretty spot-on most of the time. Whether he’s following you around or not (I don’t think he is), it doesn’t look good when you complain that he’s commenting on you again instead of owning up and saying you may have made a mistake. I like most of the stuff you post- I don’t have anything against you, really. It’s just that posts like this get on my nerves. And it seems like you think that BB is the only one that has a problem with it. He’s not… I’m fine with dropping it, but just so you know, he’s not the only one that has a problem with that stuff.
by shep615 on Nov 3, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The thing is, is that I don’t think I’m wrong and Dorn agrees.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 3, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
all due respect but you and dorn are both wrong
it was 10 -0 at the end of first quarter. then it was 20-0 at the end of the second quarter. then begining of the 3rd it was 20-3 on a dawson fg. then 20-10 on a td catch by tim carter. then ben watson scored for the pats making it 27-10 pats back up 17. then kellen winslow scored 27-17 still up by 10. then the pats closed out the scoring with a defensive score final score 34-17. so dorn was incorrect the browns after the first quarter never got it to a 1 score game and the pats never led by less then 10 points from the first quarter on. the browns were not that close on ending the perfect record barely top 5 if u ask me.
That’s perfectly fine if you think that way, but then give reasons why you think you’re correct. You never did that; you just complained that people were disagreeing with you.
I gave you the link to the box score and posted scores to show why I thought it was wrong to say that the Browns were close to beating them. Intead of telling me why you disagreed with me and giving facts, this was your reply:
Oh, hey look, BB replied to me.
That’s it. No reasonable argument, no facts supporting your statements, just complaining that I replied to you (as if that was somehow against the rules). Your lack of reponse to my comments made it look like you didn’t have any facts to support your argument, so instead you just took a shot at me. That is what people here have a problem with. It’s perfectly acceptable for you to think you’re not wrong, but give reasons why you think that way instead of taking shots at people who disagreed with you and you’ll get a much better response.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 3, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I laughed at “Big Bad Buckeye Brad”.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Nov 4, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
And 10 points down.
That’s not really close. ‘Close’ is when it’s less than a TD, or better yet, would be ended one way or the other by a FG.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Dude we got rocked. Blasted. Thoroughly beaten.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
You guys are misremembering the game. The Browns had the ball with a chance to tie, but we had a turnover that went for 7 and led to the final score not being that close. We were trailing by a lot the majority of the game but made it competitive in the end.
we never had a chance to tie. we had a chance to be down by 3, but never to tie. we were down 27-17 after coming back from being down 20-0. I do not consider 10 points a “close game”. we still lost by 2 scores.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
And the Pats were already in “just close the book on this game” mode.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
yeah. Thats a better way of putting it than they kinda let us get back into it…
that game was out of reach and we were lucky to get within 2 scores and that was only for a couple minutes.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
also the Giants on the last regular season game on a Sunday night (I think).
Yeah, I’ve always thought the Giants were closest to beating them in that final game. That’s a huge reason why so many astute observers (and compulsive gamblers) made so much money that Vegas sports books actually recorded a net loss (and a big one) on that Super Bowl.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
in order of ending the perfect season in reg season
1. baltimore won on last second play.
2 philly
3 giants in reg season finale actually had a 2 td lead at one point i think.
I remember Philly was close without McNabb too.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 2, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont believe in trap games as much as the next guyI think a lot of people believe in "trap games" – so I’m not seeing your point on this.
I think he’s saying that he doesn’t believe in trap games as much as other people do, which goes along with what you said.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 2, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe, but usually when people use that phrase they mean they are just like “the next guy,” so I can see the confusion.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
But he said that he doesn’t believe as much as the next guy, so that seems to clearly indicate that he has a different opinion than other people.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
i seemed to have confused people
i was simply trying to say i dont believe in trap games. some people do i dont. i think every team knows any team can beat any team in any given week and i sure as heck know bb prepares 1 week at a time. i apologize for confusing people. its just my opinion which could easily be wrong hahaha. heres is to a good clean game with no injuries!!!!!
it obviously doesn’t clearly indicate anything, since there is confusion.
think of it this way, the skeleton of the saying is “I ______ as much as the next guy.” fill in the blank. He “doesn’t believe in trap games as much as the next guy.” To a lot of people, this sounds like he’s saying most people don’t believe in trap games.
I understand now what he meant, but please don’t act like it was clear from the original post.
Note: brady12mvp3, I’m not trying to rag on you or imply you should have been more clear or anything, it was just a misunderstanding.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
and i know bb knows that cleveland can beat them if they arent prepared.
I don’t think its as much if Belichick takes the browns for granted but whether the players do. I don’t think he is the type of coach to take any team for granted. however he has to prepare his players psychologically that the browns will still play tough and if not, they may mentally take the browns for granted.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
i only spoke for myself about trap games
as i stated i dont believe in them as much as the next guy meaning some people do some people dont. i know bb will have his team ready for this game and the pats have come off a brutal stretch where they have won 4 in a row vs miami baltimore san diego and minny. so i guess youre right it could be a trap game i just think bb will show a lot of film on what the browns just did to the defending champs. bb knows about the any given sunday theory. the bb and mangini fued is for real it has dulled a little cause he is no longer on the jets. bb felt betrayed by mangini when he left for the jets 1 cause he didnt think he was ready and 2 bb hates the jets orginization. but i have respect for the browns orginization i wish them better times in the near future that city deserves a winner!!!
Just to beat Mooncamping to the post… Your water beetles with the new TE should run circles around our behemoth linebackers. And we just don’t have the classic OLs to get to Brady soon enough to disrupt the flow of the game. All will be good though if Gisele makes the trip as women weaken legs and we hope Tom has a sub-Brady game – he is getting up in years and consistency always falters on the north-side of 30. We also have a chance as the classically constructed OG Mankins (can we get a torso to hip ratio here?) will be sitting out this week. Hopefully Rogers went light on the cheeseburgers.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Nov 2, 2010 7:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
HA!
You Patriot fans will understand by the end of the week.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 2, 2010 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Made too much sense.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Nov 4, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep, I did my best, though…
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Nov 4, 2010 9:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is a question for both groups of fans.
Do you celebrate No-Shave November?
***FREE FREEBRADSHAW***
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 2, 2010 8:38 PM EDT reply actions
Nah, the wife doesn’t like it if I let “The Boys” go for more than a couple of days. They get real itchy too.
What does that MEAN - TO PLAY US OUT?!!?!?
Thats not what I was referring to.
***FREE FREEBRADSHAW***
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 3, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
…Wow. There are women on this site bro.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 3, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey Shady. Who’s the guy posing with Justin Bieber in your avatar. Tony Siragusa?
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Nov 2, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is that Golic? I don’t have my glasses on. Looks more like Siragusa.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Who is Siragusa?
***FREE FREEBRADSHAW***
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 4, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The fat Golic look a – like who does the field reporting for Fox.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
here
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
Oh, ok I know him. Not a huge fan.
***FREE FREEBRADSHAW***
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 5, 2010 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
You are the funniest guy ever.
***FREE FREEBRADSHAW***
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 4, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Looking at the pic, as far as Shady goes, no-shave november isn’t anything different than another month.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
by Browns town on Nov 3, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m gonna have to disagree there.
***FREE FREEBRADSHAW***
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 4, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
All in good fun, but your pic does suggest that your ability to grow a beard is about as good as Brady Quinn’s chances of being a quality QB.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
Well it probably looks like it because in that picture I was 15
***FREE FREEBRADSHAW***
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 5, 2010 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
That picture is over a year old
So you’re 16 now? I’m a fairly hairy guy, but even I couldn’t grow a beard at age 16.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
It’s possible. I was growing a goatee after my freshman year of high school and then a full beard the summer after my sophomore year. A pretty legit one, too.
Well I doubt I’ll grow a real beard to be honest, but I’ll see how far I get.
***FREE FREEBRADSHAW***
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 5, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
That picture is over a year old.
***FREE FREEBRADSHAW***
by TheRealSlimShady on Nov 3, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to celebrate...
…No-Shave Febu-Wavery, which is a festivity for follicles.
by Richard Hill on Nov 2, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yes. Myself and the rest of the RAs from my residence hall are having a competition for no shave november. We all shaved our face clean the day before no shave november started, and we’re not shaving for the entire month of november (obviously). Then we’ll vote on who has the best beard at the end of the month. Whoever wins gets a free meal at Smokin’ Charlie’s (an AMAZING bbq restaurant).
I’m kinda a hairy dude, so I’m the favorite to win. I want me some Smokin’ Charlie’s.
And PS- This is the first time in 2 years that I havent had my beard. I don’t like it one bit.
How well do you think the Pats will hold up to the Browns running game (assuming we don’t fall far behind early on and jump on the pass wagon)?
No back has broken 100 yards against us this season.
Maybe you’ll be the first.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 3, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
i wanted the pats to get Peyton H.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
Good thing for you guys that Brad Childress is a moron.
AP should have broken the 100 yard mark in the third quarter.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 3, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, Belichick was the moron...
…they used their worst run defender on the line for the entire first quarter. Peterson hasn’t struggled to gain yards against other teams, even while splitting series with Toby Gerhart. The Patriots just adjusted.
The line isn’t dominant in itself- it’s the linebackers that have been doing a stellar job in reading plays and hitting gaps.
by Richard Hill on Nov 4, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Adrian Peterson got 7 carries in the second half.
Childress is a moron.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Vikings were behind so they have reason to throw more often...
but you’re still right; Childress is a moron.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
also I think he had more than 7 carries.
I remember reading around 12. 7 in the 3rd, and 5 in the fourth I think.
I’ve been trying to find the stats, but unfortunate I couldn’t. Know any good sites for diverse information?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Best place I have found is the Yahoo PxP recap.
Here is the one for the Vikes-Pats.
Sadly, it was only 7 carries for Peterson in the second half. I can’t imagine how that is a good idea, especially when it was a one score game until two minutes left.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks.
They were down by two TDs. Running the ball in the 4th quarter will not only mean running down the clock, and maybe wasting TOs, but also risking not getting that much either.
They had to pass it.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
You are right, they were down 11 with 2:25 left in the third.
Personally, I still think that is plenty of time to give the ball to Adrian Peterson.
When it comes down to it, Childress did the hardest thing in the NFC. Stop Adrian Peterson.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Peterson did fairly well in the first drive, but after that was negated for the most part. The only guy who looked dynamic was Harvin, which encouraged them to throw more often.
More to the point, he only ran it 7 times in the second half, and his game total was something like 3.7 yards per carry. He didn’t carry often enough in the second half to really damage his stats, so it goes to show that he just wasn’t running effectively against the Pats overall. Why bang a broken drum, etc?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
When that drum is Adrian Peterson, you better bang it (That sounds all sorts of wrong).
I’m not saying that they should have turned into Nebraska of the 80’s, but outside of CJ, the most dangerous weapon in the NFL is Adrian Peterson. He can take every single carry to the house.
I’m not a Viking fan, but I would feel much better with the ball in Peterson’s hands than Favre right now.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
As would I.
If anything, they used Peterson incorrectly. The Pats D-line had the Vikings O-line’s number, so they should’ve adjusted to take that out of the equation and emphasise Peterson’s strengths – tosses around the outside, swing passes, maybe screens, dumpoffs behind linebackers.
By all means, give Peterson the ball. But if he’s struggled all game to run up the gut, just stop him doing that. Find another way to use him.
(As a side-note: Peterson did have 5 receptions for 50 yards and RB Toby Gerhart had 5 for 67. They used Peterson to catch the ball, but I wonder if they didn’t use him enough or they should’ve found ways to use him more effectively in space.)
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
Find another way to use him [Peterson].
It comes back to the point that Childress is in over his head.
How someone can have Moss, Harvin, Berrian, AP, Shanicoe and Gerhart and not figure out a way to use them is beyond me.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't trust Childress with a pair of safety scissors.
Let alone weapons like that.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 4, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not that there’s anything wrong with that!
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 4, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
this is an utterly meaningless stat. it shows that you have at least a decent run D, but it shows nothing more. Pats fans have touted this and it seems like they are trying to say you have a top 10 rushing D.
However, the pats are tied for 10th in total yards allowed by a rushing D, 21st in FOs DVOA rankings for rushing D, 14th in allowing 1st downs, and tied for 8th (with 5 teams) in yards per carry.
Definitely a very solid rushing D, but I think the “100 yards” stat is a bit misleading about its dominance.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
They’ve got a good rushing D, there’s no questioning that. But I’m not sure he was really trying to say that their D has been dominant only because of the 100 yards stat.
I think they’re pretty dominant, though. I’m not sure what this 21st in FOs DVOA stat is, but the other stats you gave are pretty impressive. 10th in total yards allowed means that they’re better than 66% of the league in that stat, and 8th in yards per carry means they’re better than 75% of the league in that stat. 14th in allowing 1st downs isn’t all THAT impressive, but it’s still dang good.
Plus, it’s not like they’ve been facing… I dunno, Lee Suggs or anyone like that each week. They’ve held AP, LT, and Ray Rice under 100 yards.
All this to say… If we’re going strictly on stats, I’m kinda afraid of their rushing D and I’d call them dominant. But I’m not sure that’s even what the guy was going for in the first place.
and 8th in yards per carry means they’re better than 75% of the league in that stat.
Like I mentioned, they were also tied with 5 teams for 8th. the next team is 13th. so they are really only “better” than 13-32.
the DVOA stat is value per play, adjusted to the opponent. it is how well they are at stopping the run per play, adjusted per opponent.
14th in allowing 1st downs isn’t all THAT impressive, but it’s still dang good.
I wouldn’t call it dang good. it is only 3 total first downs in 7 games less than the Mean for the NFL. so, I would consider that above average…I don’t see why those 3 first downs makes than “dang good”.
I am not afraid of their Rushing D, but their rushing D is definitely something to gameplan against. They are probably only the 4th best rushing D we have faced however, behind KC, Pitt, and Atlanta. They are definitely good, but its not like we haven’t faced harder.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I may just be easily impressed. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I’m so used to the Browns sucking so bad at defending the run in recent years that mediocre/above average run D looks a lot better than it actually should to me. And you raise a good point that we’ve faced better run D’s.
How does the Browns run D compare with these stats?
-15th in yards
-1st in the league in opposing rushing TDs (NE is still top 10 though in the back half)
-8th (tied) in ypa
-3rd in 1st downs allowed
-The browns have allowed the 12th most carries while the Pats have allowed the 23rd most.
-The Pats rank 18th in % of rushing attempts that go for 1st downs with 22% while the browns rank 1st in this category with less than 15%. (or, every 4.5 carries against the pats goes for a 1st while every almost 7 for us goes for a 1st)
-the browns are 11th in DVOA.
I can even give you where you should run it on each team. For the pats, run at their DEs. their DL statistically doesn’t seem to be getting much of a push (haven’t seen them a lot on film) and teams have had the most success running right at the DEs. For us, run to the left side. The right side has both Roth and Coleman. Fujita plays Right side, left side, and ILB sometimes. The problem against the run may be Benard.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
We might not be the best at stopping the run. I would give the steelers that.
however, we have been one of the best at containing the run, limiting big plays, and limiting rushing 1st downs (though we probably have a ton of passing 1st downs b/c its always 3rd and 8 but they convert)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
The Pats have got a very young secondary...
so they’re playing a lot of quite deep coverage and give WRs big cushions off the CBs. It invites QBs to take the easy dink-and-dunk passes for 3 or 4 yards, and most do. That means opposition QBs are facing 3rd-and-2 and see CBs still backed up 10 yards off the LOS. As any QB does, they take the short pass and convert the third down.
It gives the Pats atrocious 3rd down stats, but it means they haven’t given up many deep passes at all. And if/when the opposition gets into the Red Zone, that field compresses up and suddenly those gaps in the zone are non-existent. That’s when the pressure comes on, and the Pats are 6th best at forcing interceptions and 10th best at forcing fumbles thus far. They’ve also been surprisingly effective at limiting oppositions to only Field Goals, or as Childress found out last week, snuffing out 4th down attempts on the Goal Line.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
The browns are tied for 7th in Fumbles Lost and Colt has only thrown 2 picks in 2 games which would put us in the top half if he played every game (top half at limiting picks). This strategy will work in the browns favor because teams have been forcing the browns to go deep in many games. The browns don’t live and die by the deep ball, they have done more of the dink and dunk passing.
The browns have struggled in the RZ so we may see a lot of field goals.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
We usually substitute Bernard situationally.
Also, our pass defense and probably our offense have some say in these stats, as they would in the Patriots’.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I would say so.
the fact that our pass D is so poor and we generally are down for more time in games than we are up is why we give up more yardage than the pats, but still manage to be a more effective run D.
Its all like gears in a machine.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Depends on what's asked of him...
…the Patriots won’t use him on 3rd down because they have Danny Woodhead, who is a better blitz picker-upper and is better in the draw and in the receiving game. BJGE is a two down back, so it really depends on what type of a groove the Patriots offense gets into. If Brady can air the ball early on, he’ll have a great game.
by Richard Hill on Nov 4, 2010 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's my best effort at your question.
First of all, it’s a great question and one you may get 5 different answers on. Here goes anyway:
My personal opinion is that BJGE is a “good” back…. but not a guy I consider any type of “feature back”. Just remember this: Most teams like to run the ball well and use the pass when necessary…… OR….. to create effective play action situations. The Pats are almost polar opposites of that. They pass well…. spread out the field, then run the ball, some of which are gimmicky rushing plays out of the shot gun.
The danger of playing him as your work-horse RB is the fact you can never count on the guy getting a whole bunch of carrys…. EVEN IF HE’S RUNNING WELL! The amount of running plays the Pats run is completely contingent upon the effectiveness of the passing game. The Pats are not going to line up and play smashed mouthed football. I just don’t think they’re built for it. I’d say about half (maybe more) of the running plays the Pats run are in situations where they hope the opposition is playing for pass. Play action fakes the Pats utilize in the middle of the field are usually extremely lame. I think they do it just because it’s a part of the play call and not something they do to freeze linebackers and such. I point that out to because I think they use those $hitty fakes to set up the really effective ones they do which are clearly in goal line situations. There are time where Brady fakes out the damn camera men.
BJGE and Moorhead are very different runners but both operate extremely well within this scheme. The goal is generally to get them into the open field and let them do their thing. Danny is the slashy runner while BenJarvis is more effective in putting his head down and drag a linebacker or saftey for an extra 2 or 3 yards when the first contact is made.
Does he have the ability to be the “feature guy”? My thought is NO, but I’m thrilled to have the guy operate within the context of this very specific system.
by Bills friend on Nov 4, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
What the h*ll am I saying?
I was so focused on my point that I called the guy Moorhead…. WTF? I’m an idiot, please excuse me.
by Bills friend on Nov 4, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Is Eric Wright that bad??....cause i live in Cbus and radio pple here bash him
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
He’s been on the slide this season.
He basically lost us at least 2 games.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 4, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The short answer is yes, he is. But he is losing a little game time now to Haden and he can still play special teams well as he showed in NO. However he has a history of very good play and could, we pray, get back into form at any moment. (I can’t believe I just wrote that)
by browndawgbacker on Nov 4, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Your first mistake is listening to sports radio people in Columbus. The only local personality on the radio in Columbus who knows what he’s talking about is Herbstreit, and he’s not on that often given his ESPN duties. Most of the local sports radio guys here are just flat out awful.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
i like the comman man and torg....
can’t stand herbie….his love for boise st…is pissing me off
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
I hate those two guys (common man and torg). They are a perfect example of everything that’s wrong with sports talk radio. Both of those guys are idiots, and all they ever do is degrade or make fun of every other team in college football. They’re just your typical OSU homers who think all of football should revolve around them (but, of course, they complain that everyone else in the country hates OSU). I’m so mad that they moved to the late afternoon show last year because now they’re on during my drive home from school. Luckily I have XM radio so I can listen to Scott Van Pelt on ESPN radio.
I actually don’t mind Bruce Hooley when he’s talking about OSU sports, but he knows nothing about baseball. Ever since he said that the Indians should have traded Sabathia for Jeff Francour I’ve lost all respect for him on that sport. Spielman is pretty good about football as well, but they can’t talk about any other sport. Herbstreit is great.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 4, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I love the SVP show.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m still coming to terms with the Boise State thing, but what I do trust about Herbstreit is that he has done his homework and if he thinks Boise State is really that good then his point of view is worth entertaining. I don’t think he’s doing it to get publicity, I don’t think he’s doing it to make waves – I think he thinks they are really that good because he’s watched the games, watched the tape, and has a much superior knowledge of college football than I do. I may not yet agree with him, but his making the point has made me entertain the possibility that he might be right in a much stronger manner than I would otherwise.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
of course BSU is "good"
cause they play crap conference games week in and week out and probably dont have to game plan every week like how other SEC, Big ten, Big 12, Pac 10 do.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
they beat both Va Tech and Oregon State who were ranked top 25. they are just playing THAT well and their resume will be improved if they soundly beat Nevada. they obviously don’t play those types of schools week in and week out, though through no fault of their own. they have struggled to schedule tough Non-Conference games b/c no one wants to play them, and if they do Boise state has to go on the road usually.
Once they join the MWC, they will be playing TCU every year and other tougher teams.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
not true
Nebraska wanted to play BSU in a home and home series but BSU wanted to play twice @ home and once @ Nebraska and they wanted equal money shared between the two schools.
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
that is one case. I think I heard about that. that is the only team that BSU has truly refused. Most of the time, a big team like a Nebraska won’t even give them a home and home and will give them a minimal amount of $ for 2 road games. Yes, BSU wanted equal money, but no one is going to give it to them. teams want to play BSU in their home stadium and not give BSU any $.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I am a Bill Belichick fan.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Nov 4, 2010 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
i can’t rep to being a “fan”, but in my mind he is definitely the best nfl coach since paul brown, and only bill walsh is really a close second. the word “genius” gets thrown around way too often in the sports universe, but if ever someone could be said to be a football “genius”, belichick would have to get the vote.
that said, he’s a scumbag of epic proportions.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 4, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally agree…except i would rank Walsh slightly ahead of Belichick (but I definitely agree with the premise). he is definitely an excellent coach and a brilliant defensive mind.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I can’t really disagree with you. I think he’s a grumpy old curmudgeon, and I don’t like the guy’s personality, but he’s a very, very good football coach.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I think he's funny. lol
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
he’s funny, but in that way a grump old man is funny.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
by patriotguy2 on Nov 4, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
Party over here
Dick Butkus, Former Chicago Bears Linebacker
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game."
what...you pple dont read my post....
Bill Belichick (check out the link lol)
:(((
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
he wants to party w. you
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
by NinjaZX6R on Nov 4, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This picture is so awesome. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
ha....i didn't see that u already posted it....
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
You took too long.
Plus the opportunity presented itself, due to us talking about how funny BB(Bill Belichick for those of you who have the initials BB in this blog) is. lol
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Aye, To much Belycheek is to much.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
is this a reference to that one south park episode?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, kind of. Just the Belycheek part.
How do I reech deees keeeeeeds?!?!!?
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
haha yeah!
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
wilco
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
+1
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
they also referenced My Neighbor Totorro
Which I thought was freakin’ funny.
in the episode before that one, they made a reference to A Clockwork Orange, my #4 favorite movie of all time. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
No, no, no.
Watch the spoof where they make the CEO of BP do the “What Should I Do” commercial. Fricken’ hilarious.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 5, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh. I was never really bothered by the Kosar cut. Testaverde was the better option at that point in Bernie’s career. And Belichick is as good a coach as you’ll ever find. I love that he chose his very first press conference as head coach of the Jets to resign from the Jets. He’s also hilarious.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
the cut was tough, but if i remember correctly he cut bernie during a week in which testaverde was hurt, leading to a memorable start by todd philcox. that just seemed like kicking dirt in the local hero’s face unnecessarily.
and i think the kosar-related bad blood toward belichick goes back to when he initially benched bernie, which (again, if i remember correctly) came a week or maybe 2 after bernie had successfully lead the browns to a big monday night victory over the 49ers (who were awesome at the time) by calling all/most of the plays in the huddle/at the line of scrimmage.
E-Me: a friend is a big jets fan, and he was STEAMING the day that belichick bolted from the jets … i told him, “not to worry. belichick is a bum.” call me soothsayer.
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 4, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
He did the same thing in New England.
Belichick didn’t want to re-sign the veteran leader on the defence – Lawyer Milloy. So he let Milloy walk, and Milloy signed with the Pats divisional rival Bills. The Pats were hammered by the Bills in week 1 of the season. After that, as Shutdown Corner notes pithily:
When Belichick released safety Lawyer Milloy a few days before the start of the 2003 season, Tom Jackson of ESPN said the following of the Patriots players on national television: “Let me say this clearly: they hate their coach.” The Pats hated Belichick so much, they won the next two Super Bowls.
He Bernie Kosar’d Lawyer Milloy, but won the hardware to make people forget.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
a little soul searching for the DBN crew … reading through much of this thread, we kind of come off as childish dicks in some of these arguments. let’s bring it back to neutral, huh?
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 4, 2010 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
this thread almost needs to be re-started.
As an aside (back to the topic), I have more questions for us than the Pats.
who’s going to cover Welker?
Will we get pressure on/INT Brady?
we need someone to step up and play huge for us. whos’ it going to be?
by discoinferno083 on Nov 4, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
This thread almost needs to be re-started
I was thinking th same thing.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
ha....last time i check in here...5 hrs ago...there was about 300 +comments
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
would it be possible to seriously do this?
by discoinferno083 on Nov 4, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
if B19K...lets me do one...i'm down...its close to 600 comments
never seen a pats post on another blog go above 300….congrats…you guys talk to much :)
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
It’s mostly a few people arguing about Wes Welker. We need to create another thread to actually talk about the game.
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 4, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
its up to you guys...your blog...your rules
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
agreed….I skipped more comments than I read….it’s hard to find the actual discussions, if they are there
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 4, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Welker.
Some of you think he is overrated. I just want to say that welker is a very good receiver, both in the slot, and outside. But since some of you have already established that he is a great slot WR, I think the argument is about overall WR.
What makes a WR very good? Is it catching? TDs? Coming up in the clutch? Yards? I think they all have a hand in their success.
Welker, in truth, is a clutch WR, no matter where he lines up. He is very tough, and is known for getting about 5 yards after the catch, whether he catches within 3 yards, or 8. He gets us first downs, and stretches the defense underneath by forcing a LB on him.
He is very good at catching the ball. Open field, and in coverage.
He doesn’t get all the TDs, and at the moment, he doesn’t get as much targets as he used to due to us having more of a diverse offense. We have stressed to win in more than one way and winning just by passing welker the ball will not happen.
Also, some of the things that you guys expect welker of… if you think about it, not EVERY WR is a complete one. Randy Moss can’t get YAC, and he is not always clutch for example. There are only two WRs, maybe three, that imo, have all around talent, and that’s Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson. Fitz can be in that category too, as well as a couple others.
It’s WHAT those receivers DO with that talent that makes them great. I already mention welker, but I’m sure Eddie Royal, desean jackson, steve smith, davone bess, hartline(dolphins), and more have a certain talent that makes them a very good WR. (If you have different takes on these WRs, let me know. I am open for knowledge. :))
The talent that welker has, quickness, blocking, clutch, reliable. This is what makes him very good, and very dangerous. He isn’t DeSean Jackson, but neither is Davone Bess.
Say what you want about welker, but although he is unlikely to get the stats he had when moss was here in the last 3 years, he’ll still have the same skills he has been known for, and be a very productive WR for us in the offense.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
by patriotguy2 on Nov 4, 2010 9:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
i have a request … can you, bross and comedic please take any further discussion of welker or belichick’s ego to a private, not-here place? thankssomuch
by DontCallMeJoey on Nov 4, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I came in late(this afternoon I think. lol)
but I am very sorry for having the debates get out of hand.
This was me trying to get everything out.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
:)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Done, I’m bored with it anyway.
Interesting crowd you’ve got in here. They’re pretty quick to pick a fight, ha.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
They’reBross is pretty quick to pick a fight.
You can have him if you want…
j/k bross
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
by Browns town on Nov 4, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s funny, I’ve never seen another fanbase ever call anything Welker anything but special. Even the Jets fans give Welker due deference – although it’s of the “I h8 hiz guts but hiz gud, i hoep he gets hhit by a bus” type.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol!
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I apologize for starting this.
I am the one who freed Cthulhu.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 5, 2010 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I like more SP references. Well played.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Was there a Lovecraft inspired episode of South Park or something?
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
There was an aspect of the episode that was inspired by Lovecraft, yes.
See, DP’s (formally BP) second drilling in an attempt to stem the oil spill accidentally opens up a gateway to another dimension, causing the entire gulf to be attacked by enormous alien creatures. Hayward determines that they will need to drill on the Moon in order to change the gravitational pull on the Earth and quell the swells on the ocean, which will allow them to place a cap on the gateway. Unfortunately, in the act of doing this, they inadvertently release Cthulhu, making things worse as Hayward sends out another “we’re sorry” campaign.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
who is mysterion?
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 5, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Should’ve watched the episode dude.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 5, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I was actually just referencing the first episode with him where the big question was “who is mysterion” It wasn’t an actual question.
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
I thought (insert who Mysterion really is) was Mint Berry Crunch. He’s the only one who I can’t figure out. WHO IS MINT BERRY CRUNCH!?
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 5, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I didn’t think he was mint berry crunch…but I am so confused!!
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Like I said, I know them all except Mint Berry Crunch.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 5, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
i liked the BP oil episode
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
I personally was a bit disappointed. Not because it was a bad episode. It was a solid episode. I just felt that the BP spill was one of the best opportunities in pop culture to make fun of. It was a fat pitch down a middle and they hit a slow roller that went between the short stop and 2nd. a weak single when I expected extra base hits (if you want it in a baseball analogy)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I just saw this episode tonite…..loved the Clockwork Orange reference.
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
+3 billion
Freakin amazing movie.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Our honor defend we will fight to the end for OHIO!
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
OT, sorry, but are you an OSU student or alum?
(sorry if I missed you saying it somewhere, skipped over the welker drama)
current tOSU student
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
As a goodwill gesture to heated Browns fans in here, an object of mutual derision:
That is all.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 4, 2010 10:20 PM EDT reply actions 10 recs
LOL that is awesome!
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
stop stealing my pics KIWI!!!
:)
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
I don’t know if it makes you feel any better, but a lot of us hate the jets.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
also this picture is awesome.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
why....just wondering
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
Braylon Edwards
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 4, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
understandable.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
ohh...i have something for you then...wait a min
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
here
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
by NinjaZX6R on Nov 4, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
nice
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 4, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I assume we all have our reasons. mine are, in no particular order:
-overratedness
-I don’t like rex ryan
-Braylon Edwards
-The Sanchise
-the way they backed into the playoffs last year
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Rob Ryan though – gotta love his Grizzly Adams look.
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 4, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I love him as a DC, I don’t think I’d want him as a head coach. That’s a personal preference though.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 4, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I don’t think he’d be a great HC – I think he’s right where he needs to be
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 4, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure how overrated they are. I know they got quite a bit of hype before the season, and many people here thought they wouldn’t be that good, but they’ve looked pretty good so far. I think they’re certainly one of the best teams in the AFC (and hence the NFL).
. . . says the man from Columbus.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 4, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
they are doing better than I expected so they may not be overrated, but for some reason, I just want them to flop over and fail. I can’t truly put into words all of why I hate them, I just do I guess.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Oh, I would also add the stupid j-e-t-s jets jets jets chant.
And Ken O’Brien
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 4, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
who doesn't? lol
According to a poll before the regular season I believe, the jets were considered the most hated team in the nfl.
:)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
ok..question for you browns fans...
would you take Sanchez w. that 5th pick?…….
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
I didn’t want him then, and still don’t want him. Looking back, we got a great Center in Alex Mack. Yeah, we whiffed on Brady Quinn, but he got us a good RB in Peyton Hillis, so it all worked out for the better.
This might just be avatar bias, but I like McCoy better than Sanchez.
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 4, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
i always liked colt...(watching him play for 4 yrs)...even though he broke my heart in jan 2009
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
Yes, I was not on the McCoy bandwagon in 2009, but once he became a Brown we patched things up
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 4, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Question(I don't know if this was brought up).
Who will be your starting QB? And what do you think of him?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Eric said it was McCoy
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
McCoy is starting this week. Most people here want to see more of him, and they are very encouraged by what he has done in his two starts so far, but we’re still cautious about saying he’s our QB of the future.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
I could be wrong, but I believe I read somewhere it will be McCoy. I like him better than the other QBs on the roster. Here’s my take on him:
-he’s got the most potential
-he escaped Pitt with a decent showing, factoring in the fact Pitt is one of the top D’s, and we have next to nothing at WR
-he didn’t put up huge numbers against NO, but he managed the game well and had no turnovers
-he seems comfortable being in the game, and it looks like he has good leadership
Seneca Wallace did a decent job filling in for Delhomme, but he’s always been a backup, and should probably stay in that role.
Jake Delhomme just scares me every time he drops back to pass – he hasn’t played a lot for us though, but he still scares me.
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 4, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I like what I saw from McCoy through highlights.
He seems to fit your offensive style better. he ma not have a strong arm, but he seems to have good decision making and accuracy.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Don’t let him fool you. McCoy’s had a strong arm before college. He has been well coached (daddy was the HS coach BTW) and knows what it takes to win. He may or may not win the game for us but he will put it out there. That is the kind of play and attitude that will turn this franchise back into what it used to be.
No talking. Talking doesn't play football, talking isn't going to make you practice harder or play harder.
I’ve got a Q6600 (quad core @ 2.4GHz) and 4GBs of DDR2 1066 MHz… and this thread is slooooow.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
i have my netbook out now...and its hating this thread
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
My Macbook is still fine. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
..
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
You still watch GA? It’s awful now. Hasn’t been good for awhile. Also why I stopped watching Desperate Housewives.
Well, my girlfriend makes me watch it with her haha. Also makes me watch Desperate Housewives.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 5, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Hernandez or Zach Miller? With our inability to cover the TE, I’m thinking Hernandez.
DeSean Jackson is playing Sunday. Yes!!!
Knock this shit off bross. No one should have 111 posts in a single day in a single thread.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Nov 5, 2010 12:01 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
you actually counted all his comments?
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
CTRL+F, “bross09” is a good way to get an estimate, assuming people won’t be typing “bross09” in all of their comments. But now you have to minus at least 3 to the count because I said “bross09” that many times here.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
It was 108 when I finished counting. He posted three times in the time it took me to type two sentences and hit the post button.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
You really counted the old fashion way? Impressive.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
No. I did the Find/F3 bit. There are ways to autogenerate a post count, but it wasn’t worth getting up and moving to my other computer.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
I see, yeah with Google Chrome (my preferred browser of choice currently) the find feature displays the amount of results.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Smart move
I wonder how many hits I’d get on any DailyNorseman page of “fire Childress”…
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 5, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Those are legit rants though. What vikings fan wouldn’t be pissed at this point? Bross, however, has gone on a 100+ comment rant about a player and a coach for another team. Idle time, thy friend is bross09.
"There is a small, but important difference between peeing in the pool and peeing into the pool." - Demitri Martin
Oh, indeed
I tried to console them with the idea that giving up a third-round draft pick was the price to get a new coach, much like how the Pats gave the Jets a first-round pick to secure Belichick.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 5, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
So, just because I am a movie buff,
Is it okay if I ask everyone their favorite movies? :)
My top 5:
1) City of God
2) Battle Royale
3) Shawshank Redemption
4) A Clockwork Orange
5) Resevoir Dogs or Pans Labyrinth(still working on the list).
:)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
5 favorite:
1) Star Wars
2) Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure
3) The Godfather
4) The Mutilator
5) Into the Wild
5 best:
1) Godfather
2) Shawshank
3) Forrest Gump
4) a bunch of others
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 5, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Watched “Into the Wild” the other night. Great movie
"Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it."--Big Tom Callahan
what type of movies do you like?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Entertainment.... hmm.....
look at Quinten Tarentino movies. :)
What movies do you like though? Need an idea…
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
haven't seen Bill and Ted's and The Mutilator.
The rest are very good movies. Nice.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
the mutilator is an incredibly cheesey 80s slasher flick. it’s also the only movie the director ever made.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Nov 5, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I can live with that. lol
Seems sweet. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
if you like terrible 80’s slasher movies you should check out a movie called “silent night deadly night.” It was written by one of my friends’s dad, and spawned a few sequels (which he was not involved with). It’s about a kid who has a traumatic experience with santa clause as a kid and snaps one christmas when he has to dress up as santa and goes on a murderous rampage.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I have no clue why but Baseketball will always hold a special place in my heart.
Then it’s Transformers (both of them).
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 5, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I liked the first one.
Haven’t seen the second, but I’m truthfully not to excited about it. idk
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I thought the first Transformers was a fun time, not great, but fun action flick. The second one was a disaster, and I wish I hadn’t watched it. Not like the worst movie ever, but just not entertaining, for myself anyway.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
yeah... I heard it was...
which is why I might not see it any time soon. don’t want me to cry for the transformer’s franchise. :(
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Such a lie. Number 2 was dope. I just don’t think you’re as far entrenched into Transformers as me. I personally loved the fact that they incorporated Jetfire and Optimus’s ability to form into one.
On a side note: Apparently driving through town with Transformers masks on at stop lights will get you padded down and searched. I learned that tonight…
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 6, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, you probably looked like you were going to rob a bank or something.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Nov 6, 2010 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Welllllllll. He pulled me over for my plate being in the windshield, noticed me twitching a little bit, patted me, searched me and it was cool. Never think your tint is too dark that no one can see though. Apparently, pulling a mask off and setting it between your legs is enough for him to turn the fog light on which got me to twitch even more.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 6, 2010 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, the fact a second cruiser pulled up made the situation even more twitchy for me. Add in the fact I’m fresh off a suspension and forgot my registration at home… yeah. But he was cool. The other cop bs-ed with me while he searched my car. Town cops are always nice, it’s Sheriff’s and Statey’s that never let you off.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 6, 2010 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, screw all of that. Never agree to be searched.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
I had nothing to hide and if I did deny the search he would’ve written the ticket, so.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 6, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Shocking. A Chick flick list.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 5, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoa now. Casablanca is like the #2 film on AFI’s list, and Breakfast at Tiffany’s is a classic. Titanic isn’t the best movie ever, but it’s one of my favorites. There’s a difference between a chick flick like Legally Blonde and one like Casablanca.
I agree. Casablanca and Breakfast at Tiffany’s are both good movie. Titanic, well…
The best chick flick ever is When Harry Met Sally.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
would you consider Annie Hall a chick flick? both that and Harry Met Sally are Rom-Coms. If so, I would say that is my #1 with Harry Met sally coming in at #2
(OT: I have eaten at the place where they filmed “I’ll have what she’s having”)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I like Titanic.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I liked Titanic.
As for chick flicks in general, I know at least 3 or 4 fairly "mucho"ish men say that The Notebook is fantastic. Personally, I have no interest in it whatsoever.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
I had a chance to see the Notebook, but didn't feel like it for some reason.
I’d like to though.
Also, another “sort of” romance movie that’s very good: 500 Days of Summer. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Romance films for the most part simply don’t interest me. It’s not that I dislike them, I just don’t have the motivation to sit down and watch most of them. Of course there are exceptions, i.e. I was excited to see Slumdog Millionaire and really liked it, though it couldn’t hold it’s own weight in my top list. However, I probably won’t see 500 Days of Summer for the lack of motivation reason I mention.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Trust me man
500 Days of Summer is a movie that you’ll NOT expect at all. It is VERY unique, and very funny. You’ll like it. Hell, if you’ve seen Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, it’s around in that area.
Slumdog was good, but I thought it was slightly overrated. idk, a love story, tied in with a gaming show? maybe that’s why I felt it slightly overrated, but I never really knew the full reason why.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I hated slumdog. I thought it was the most boring, predictable movie to ever win an oscar. But this is just personal taste I guess.
500 days of summer is fantastic.
The notebook is also not very good.
Another romance I’d like to throw out there is “The Painted Vale.” It’s got Edward Norton, so how can you go wrong?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I hated slumdog. I thought it was the most boring, predictable movie to ever win an oscar. But this is just personal taste I guess.
Agreed. It seemed like a poor attempt to meld a great storyline concept (how gutter-dweller learned enough to win a gameshow!) to a Forrest Gump-like finding-boyhood-love story.
The whole latter part wasn’t particularly necessary, and was clearly an invention of the movie-maker as an attempt to get the Oscar nod a la Forrest Gump – the novel it’s based on was quite different, and the girl he wanted to marry was a prostitute whose pimp wouldn’t let her free. The latter isn’t as Oscar-friendly as the Forrest Gump/Jenny dynamic (not that I’m cynical).
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 6, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
wasn't disney involved in it? Can't remember...
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
The Notebook got me my girlfriend so thumbsup.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 6, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I totally agree. While Titanic and Breakfast at Tiffany’s aren’t my favorite movies, they are classic cinema. if AFI had a list of the top 10 romance movies (not rom-coms) I bet it would be Casablanca, then Titanic, with Breakfast at tiffany’s being somewhere on there too.
Casablanca is one of my favorite all times movies. It is hands down a spectacular masterpiece
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
The AFI does have a Top 10 Romantic Comedies list. The various and sundry AFI lists are pretty bad though. Lots of very mediocre movies. If your looking for a good movie, TSPDT’s aggregate lists are much better.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
I know they have a romantic comedy list. however Titanic, Gone with the Wind, and Casablanca are not Rom-Coms. There are good romantic movies that aren’t Rom-Coms.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
That’s the home page. There’s more than one list. Here’s the one for the 21st century:
http://www.theyshootpictures.com/21stcentury_films1-50.htm
As far as almost every movie being in black and white, to each his own, I suppose….
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
I didn’t see the 21st century list. Thanks, hopefully I can find some good movies. As far as black and white, I just don’t think I’m going to watch movies from 30+ years ago. Watching movies from the 80s is a stretch for me.
why is that?
I’ll give you a list of great movies from the 80’s and some years before.
Hell, Star Wars came out in ’79 I believe.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Eh... I guess so..
Well… The Terminator and I think Commando(both Arnold movies), Re-Animator, Gremlins, Ghostbusters…. These are just some variations of movies that I may recommend.
I have to consult my list as well, but I don’t want to find it at the moment. lol
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Oh, and DEFINITELY Schindler's List!
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
and?
black and white movies tend to be very good, if you watch the right ones.
Dr. Strangelove anyone?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Dr Strangelove reminds me of Brad Childress…
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 5, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I just watched that for the umpteenth time last Saturday. Never gets old.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
(Your not supposed to fight in here. This is a WAR room!"
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
by patriotguy2 on Nov 5, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I need to try and watch it sometime. I like Kubrick and feel like I’m not doing him justice as a fan having not seen this yet.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
you must.
it’s somewhere free on On Demand if you have it. It should be under tuner classic movies or something like that. Just in case you ever feel like watching it. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
plus
it may be on youtube. o_o
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I watch most movies that are over a year old (as in, not in theaters and released on DVD) for free anyway. ;-) Unless I own the DVDs/BluRay already.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
It came out in the 1960's.
i don;t think you pay for it either. ;)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
also another site you can use:
type in watch movies in google, and click on the first link. ;)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
here it is:
http://www.watchmovieslinksonline.com/
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Oh I know, there a few other decent ones too. I used that just yesterday to re-watch Blindness. Speaking of, I really like that story. It reminds me of zombie / virus outbreak, only a new twist. Also has a outlying message about our society as a whole. Good film worth seeing, as long as your not one of those types that harps on “OMG why didn’t he do this” or “OMG i so would have done this instead.”
Considering the situation, the movie gets a lot of unwarranted flack for precisely that reason.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
eh. it looked pretty good.
might check it out.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I REALLY want to see Casablanca dammit!!!
Im going to make it my mission to see that within one week if I remember. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
1) Godfather
2) Shawshank
3) Lawrence of Arabia
4) Raging Bull
5) Casablanca
(had to do 10)
6) Its a Wonderful Life
7) City Lights
8) Dr. Strangelove
9) Star Wars
10) (tie) Apocalypse Now and One Flew over the Cukoos nest
To put this topic back to football, if I ranked each one in terms of QB rating starting at 100, Apocalypse now would be 97 (so they are all very closely ranked)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I've seen maybe half of those.
I have a top 30 list. lol but I might need to change it a bit.
Movies I haven’t seen from your list:
1) Lawrence of Arabia
2)Raging Bull
3) It’s a wonderful life(thought abut seeing it)
4)City Lights
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Its surprising that someone hasn’t seen its a wonderful life…I guess I just expect that most people have because its on every christmas if you know where to look.
The best way to see Lawrence of Arabia if you can is on a big screen. its a sweeping epic and I got a chance to see it on a legit movie screen.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
very nice.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I really like so many movies, it would be impossible to just pick 5….so I’ll post a top 5 off the top of my head, and spare you a list of 30 movies:
1) Kingdom of Heaven
2) Belly
3) Texas Chainsaw Massacre (1974)
4) The Devil’s Rejects
5) Boondock Saints
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
I can give you my top 30 if you want. I decided also to spare you guys. lol
I haven’t seen #1, 2, 4, or 5.
I want to see #1, 4, and 5. Haven’t heard of Bellie. I’ll look into it sometime. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
you asked for it
City of God
Battle Royale
Shawshank Redemption
A Clockwork Orange
Let the Right One In
Schindler’s List
Pan’s Labyrinth
Reservoir Dogs
Brazil
Pulp Fiction
The Godfather
The Devil’s Backbone
District 9
Inglorious Basterds
The Dark Knight
Sunshine
Watchmen
Kick-Ass
Inception
Terminator 2
Memento
American History X
V for Vendetta
Silence of the Lambs
Dead Poets Society
Sin City
Fight Club
Unforgiven
Curious Case of Benjamin Button
28 Days Later
Macbeth(polanski)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Of course, there are many other movies I'd love to mention.
I’m a movie buff. )
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Awesome list, mine is below. It’s fairly big, but could be expanded. It would take me time though, because I feel the need to create tiered groups, as some of them don’t exactly compare to the top ones, if you know what I mean.
Just a random movie picked from that list, Watchmen was the biggest disappointment I’ve ever had in the history of my being a movie buff, (age 12-14 I started). Seriously, biggest disappointment, and I say that having sat through 3 Star Wars sequels.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
why did you think it as disappointment?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I thought it was VERY dramatic
and the characters were great. The movie seems to have many meanings in it: Life, Existence, Sacrifice; and the story was very engaging(although slow in the beginning, which I never usually mind). Of course, this is only my opinion. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
The problem was that I had read the source material about 2 months before release. It was (the graphic novel) honestly the greatest piece of literature I had ever experienced, and yes reading it is an experience.
This basically made me have unrealistic expectations for the film, I had set the bar so high, so close to release, that it all came crashing down as I set in the theater on midnight watching the movie.
The source material was simply above and beyond what I was watching. I felt, throughout the duration of the film that I was simply a retelling of a story I had just heard only the tweaked parts, excluded vital lengthy elements, and changed the ending entirely. This retelling, simply put, was not nearly as good.
I just seemed to me that they (Zack Snyder & co.) basterdized the material to create a movie that would be more relate-able to the general public so it could make more money. The story, in it’s whole (as is the only real way it should to be told to get the best experience) is more suited for a mini-series of about 12 hour-long (or so) episodes.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Also, the entire Ozymandias character was done atrociously. Despite only having a supporting role, he is the most vital, yet delicate character of the whole story. In the movie, they ruin basically every aspect of him, I don’t even know where to begin. The person they cast doesn’t fit who he is at all. “This skinny **** is supposed to be one of the strongest men in the world?” He does things in the story that are completely inconsistent with the way the actor looks. The costume re-design was just awful, and again didn’t match who Ozymandias was. Most importantly, the film portrays him incorrectly, and thus causing the film to lose every bit of its credibility, (again he needs to be a certain way for the whole story to work). He has a superiority complex, so honestly believes that he is the wisest and most powerful person on Earth. Yet, in the film he comes off as insecure and unsure of his actions. He also walks a very thin line between Well, the last part I was going to discuss his motivations but at this point it’s actually pointless, because the movie dumbs it so far down that it’s irrelevant.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
keep in mind, the books are always better than the movie(except I heard that bladerunner is better than what it was based off of. I don't think it was a book).
For example: A Clockwork Orange was amazing, but the book far exceeds the movie.
The books make us have high expectations, but the truth is, you have to keep in mind the audience your showing it too, as well as the fact that the graphic novel IS one of the greatest pieces of literature. How can a movie stay in stride with that for less than 3 hours(3 hours and 20 minutes I believe in the special edition)?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I don’t know if the book was better than the movie. I tried to read the book but the language was really confusing. then again, I tried that in 7th or 8th grade…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
It's a difficult book to read.
I haven’t read it, but several of my friends have.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Are you guys referring to A Clockwork Orange or Watchmen? I’ve never read A Clockwork Orange so I can’t comment on that. But if you’re referring to Watchmen, I just read it about 2 years ago (still feels like just a few months back), and I can say that I was completely engrossed in the story from the first few pages. I found it extremely well written. The difficult part does come later on as the story becomes more complex, you just have to be comfortable re-reading a page or two if you missed something. It’s not something you’d ever want to rush through.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
I once had a hard time reading comics, but I got used to it. I will read it sometime though(I was referring to Watchmen).
As for A Clockwork Orange, it is written mostly in nadsat(look it up), so it will be difficult to read at first.
You will get used to it eventually though.
It’s a very, very good book(and short too. I think it’s only a little over 170 or 180 pages).
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
fight club is another instance where the movie is better.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I totally agree. The message just isn’t conveyed as well through the movie. there are so many underlying themes in the book such as Jacks Oedipus complex that don’t truly come out in the movie.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Oh, and I started at around 17 I believe.
I was more into video games before that. And football. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Thanks. Of the movies on your list:
Great Movies:
City of God
A Clockwork Orange
The Godfather
Inglorious Basterds
Silence of the Lambs
Unforgiven
Good Movies:
Battle Royale
Shawshank Redemption
Schindler’s List
Pan’s Labyrinth
Reservoir Dogs
Pulp Fiction
The Devil’s Backbone
Terminator 2
V for Vendetta
Dead Poets Society
Fight Club
Movies I Didn’t Much Care For:
Brazil
District 9
The Dark Knight
Watchmen
Memento
American History X
Sin City
28 Days Later
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
I haven’t seen any of the rest as of yet.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
You have a very interesting taste in movies. Just out of curiosity, how would you describe it? Actually, I’m curious as to what about the movies in the “didn’t care for” list do you dislike? I’m not asking for you to justify it by any means, again, I’m just curious. Generally speaking, I think a lot of folks that like the movies in the first to lists, in turn, also like some of the others. I’m just interested if those had something in common that you disliked?
(I don’t want to sound snobby at all, if that’s the way it comes off. I only ask because I respect your opinion.)
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
I’m not sure they have anything in common other than the fact that they didn’t do anything for me and I don’t care to see any of them again.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Brazil I can understand, only because it requires a lot of deep thinking and the meanings of everything/.
Like the fly in the beginning, getting stuck in the machine, represents how even a mere organism can destroy the most high tech of equipment. Thus, the faults of a machine.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
A lot of people my age (20s) really dislike 2001 A Space Odyssey for the same reason. I liked it.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Bam. I like movies that challenge you to think.
A lot of people unfortunately don’t…
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I agree. I love movies that make you think. I like shows that make you think a bit. I like music that makes you think.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
+1
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
But Pulp Fiction? T2? SCHINDLER'S LIST???
eh… to each his own as they say…
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
let’s see it….I’d do one but it would turn into a top 100
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 5, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t have a top 5, but some of my favorite movies are Fight Club, Boondock Saints, The Hurt Locker, American History X, etc. I’ve seen a lot of movies though, but not a lot of the movies I’m hearing here.
I’ve always wondered has anybody else ever seen RocknRolla or Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels? They’re 2 fantastic movies but not many people seemed to have seen them.
I almost wrote in Lock Stock, but replaced it with Boondock Saints. This is why I can’t make a top movie list. I would add Hurt Locker too, forgot about that movie and it was awesome.
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
by da36chamberz on Nov 5, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll give this a shot anyway.
1.) RocknRolla
2.) American History X
3.) The Hurt Locker
4.) Get Him to the Greek (I don’t care that it just came out, I’ve already seen it 4 times.)
5.) Collateral
6.) Blow
7.) Gladiator
Some recommendations:
Lord of the Rings(I kinda like them).
Alien, and Alien 2.
Children of Men
Fight Club
Reservoir Dogs
Kick-Ass
Inception
Terminator 2
Memento
V for Vendetta
28 Days Later
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Reservoir Dogs or Memento
Both are awesome and entirely unique in there own ways. Both are done by brilliant directors.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Indeed.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I’ll have to watch Children of Men tonight.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
HIghly recommend it.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Damn it! This happens to be the one movie I can’t find streaming online… yet.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
lol
you’ll find it. You try megavideo?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
also, try and watch the movie called Ink.
I find it a very good movie. It’s independent.
If you have netflix, it should be on the “watch it now” area.
Here’s the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5I1SavGyA
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
By far the best movie on that list.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
if you don't mind foreign films...
City of God, Battle Royale, [REC], The Devil’s Backbone, and I can name others. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I have wanted to see City of God for a really long time. I just haven’t sat down and wanted read subtitles (not that it’s a big deal to me, it isn’t) I just haven’t been in the mood. Same goes for Pan’s Labyrinth, which I also really want to see.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Well I can't force you to watch them,
but if I could I would(jk. lol). They are VERY VERY VERY VERY good. especially city of god. And when you see Pan’s Labyrinth , make sure you see Del Torro’s other film, The Devil’s Backbone as well. Both are amazing.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I think we have similar tastes. Patriotguy2’s recommendations list is spot on, I’ve seen them all outside of Children of Men. I think you’ll enjoy them.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Oh you must see Children of Men then. lol
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Have you seen Snatch? As far as Guy Ritchie movies go, Lock Stock and Snatch are my two favorites. If you haven’t seen the latter you should check it out.
He then married Madonna and made Revolver, which was downright awful.
He then divorced Madonna and made RocknRolla, which I enjoyed, although not as much as Snatch or LS.
Lock Stock and Snatch. Will add to netflix movies. :)
As well as snatch.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Have you seen Reservoir dogs?
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
My all-time favorite movie list:
1. Fight Club
2. Pulp Fiction
3. The Departed, The Dark Knight, Inception, The Shawshank Redemption
7. Saving Private Ryan, Goodfellas, 300, District 9, The Social Network, The Prestige
13. The Hurt Locker, Zombieland, Kick-Ass, Seven, Smokin’ Aces
Movies that I admit are not great, but for some reason I love or really liked:
I am legend, The Boondock Saints, The Hangover, Gran Torino, Avatar, Full Metal Jacket, V for Vendetta, Avatar, Saw
Lastly, Fight Club and Pulp Fiction (and to a lesser extent, Goodfellas) were movies that changed my life for ever. I saw them both around age 13. They would change the way I look at movies from that point on. By the way, I love discussing movies, but I do not need to hear why a movie on my “admitted not good list” sucks.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Damn!
I forgot Full Metal Jacket and The Departed for my list…. ah well.
Still need to see hurt locker and seven(I’d probably love that movie too). Other than that, great list.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
You will love Seven. I’ve been reading through your posts on here and I can tell you, it is awesome and right up your alley. It’s a different genre than Fight Club, but David Fincher knocks this one out of the park too. They guy is an amazing director. It’s really intersting to see him tackle so many completely different types of movies but still does an awesome job.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
From the trailer
it reminds me of the game Heavy Rain. That alone, I know, I would love the movie. I’ll try and see if I can find it online this week or something. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
fincher knocks everything out of the park except benjamin button (which wasn’t enrirely his fault because the concept was bad and was just a remake of forrest gump in a sense) and haven’t seen social network yet
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Exactly how was it even close to forrest gump?
the feelings are the same, but other than that, they are completely different movies.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I felt the way it was written and the patterns and the development of characters were the same.
Even if it wasn’t I still felt the concept it was based off of was pretty weak. I actually read the short story and mildly enjoyed it. when I saw the movie coming out, I was excited because of Pitt/Fincher. Then i thought about it and realized that it probably wouldn’t adapt well to the screen. IMO, it adapted about as well as I thought it would.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I think it’s because both movies give an outlook on life that people really never thought about. It’s because of this, that I love that movie.
Although both movies do do this, I think they have different ideas to give on life as a whole. Forrest Gump gives you one thing, while Benjamin Button gives you another thing. Both have the same purpose, but different in it’s story telling. They both give you that same feeling, but they both have different ways of giving you that feeling.
imo, they are both very good movies.
(although I’ve seen forrest gump SO much, thanks to middle and highschool school using it as a fall back movie, that I’ve grow tired of it. :))
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
I loved forrest Gump, but IMO the storytelling of benjamin button falls a little flat.
Like I said, this may have to do with the fact that it doesn’t translate into a movie well and the adaptation is also overly drawn out.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
and on this note
I shame myself for not remembering Blade Runner. :(
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Fight Club is on my lists of movies to see.
The others on my list are:
-dirty dancing
-annie hall
-the sound of music
-to catch a thief
-the graduate
-it’s a wonderful life
-the reader
-bringing up baby
-giant
-atonement
Luckily, these are in the Clemson library except for a few.
-bringing up baby
Grab The Philadelphia Story at the same time. Grant / Hepburn double feature. Both are hilarious.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Fight Club is drastically different than every other movie on that list, just as a note. Don’t let that keep you from checking it out though.
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Never seen Sound of Music huh? Good flick.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 6, 2010 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions
You will love atonement. Haven't seen it though. lol
You should check out The Illusionist.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
With our offense
he is just as likely to get 6 catches as he is to get 2.
I would say that our offense is that diverse at the moment. I wouldn’t know.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
You know, despite all our differences and arguments and movie discussions and stuff like that… We’re all Browns fans next week, eh?
Anyone > Jets. Although I’d probably pick the Browns > any NFC team I wasn’t particularly fond of; it’s just that extra familiarity with AFC teams that make me more fond of them. It’s the same in the Superbowl – if the Pats can’t be there, I’d rather it go to a team I have respect for, and most of those are in the AFC.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 6, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Good to know someone else holds a special place in their heart for AFC teams against NFC.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Nov 7, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
how did my post turn into a top 10 movie list?
lol
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
Anything can happen. :)
But I might be to blame. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
lol I was wondering that too… I’m surprised no one has put the kibosh on the movie discussion :p But whatevs. It’s all good :)
it's certainly a more friendly discussion
than about welker and coaches and such. A good change of pace. :)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Question for the Browns fans
who is your must underrated player? every team always knows their one guy who no one else knows, who’s yours?
Dick Butkus, Former Chicago Bears Linebacker
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game."
Tuba Rubin. Nose Tackle. Big. Athletic. High motor. One of the strongest players in the league. He owns the middle of the field.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
I’d say so, but he is still mostly a situational guy and there are still some questions on how he can play the run…plus I think he gets a bit more recognition than Rubin
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I was gonna suggest him. I totally agree, plus like most NTs, doesn’t get enough credit (Ngata is ridiculous this year but isn’t putting up ridiculous stats)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Pats fans have complete understanding in the value of a good NT, stats be damned, so we’re with you there.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
by Comedic.Sans on Nov 6, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I like this selection. Rubin is very. very under the radar and he doesn’t get the respect he deserves for the job he does.
by johnnyphoenix on Nov 7, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Who’s yours?
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
Maybe Jermaine Cunningham or Devin McCourty.
Cunningham can pass rush very well, and has very good instincts on the run.
McCourty has been solid in coverage so far, and if it weren’t for Suh being beastly, he would have a very good run for defensive rookie of the year.
Others can give you more detail on them.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
this
heard some nfl experts say McC is far the best rookie CB this year
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
great game by the browns...i'm still shocked.....good luck for the rest of the season
Non Sibi Sed Patriae.
I love my ZX-6r Kawasaki.
I bleed Scarlet and Grey...A Buckeye for Life
Pat McAfee -Colts punter-"@StampedeBlue I hope your website gets exposed for a complete joke. There’s no reason for you to do that, and its completely ridiculous."
Ugly game on the Pats part, ugh
Good luck for the rest of the season. Perhaps it shouldn’t be Wes Welker’s elite-ness that’s in question, but Tom Brady’s since his injury. Ugly, ugly performance on his part, two TDs notwithstanding.
Also… you can keep Mangini if the Pats get Brian Daboll back? Please?
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
A few weeks ago we would have had to pay you to take Daboll back. Careful what you wish for.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
I think that Brady struggled because no one was making plays for him. He had a lot of dropped passes today.
by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 7, 2010 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Indeed
The only vet WRs, Branch and Welker, are both fairly banged up at the moment, and everyone else is a rookie or has a rookie’s amount of experience. And this week, they sure played like it.
Token southern hemisphere guy - 14,688km from Foxboro. That's 9128 miles, for you heathens.
I may really dislike your team, players, and coach but you guys are a really awesome group of fans. It’s been a fun week. Good luck to you in the future!
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
:)
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Great ass-kicking guys. I'd like to ask a favor, if I may....
Could you do the same thing to the Jets next week?
Thanks!
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 8, 2010 5:39 PM EST reply actions
We’ll certainly try our best to!
Anderception [an·der·cep·tion] -noun
1. the logical end result of a Derek Anderson pass
I'll be rooting for you Sunday!
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 8, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
as long as you whup the steelers…don’t you play them next too?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Yep.
We have an opportunity to help each other out.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 8, 2010 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
Well, we got the Steelers for you
I was hoping after the bad FG you guys would ice the Jets for us, but it was a good game.
Good luck on the rest of your season.
My life has been a trivial pursuit. Trivia: where three roads meet.
The more you know, the more you know that you don't know.
by SlotMachinePlayer on Nov 15, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
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