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A Frustrating Finish: Poor Play by Offensive Line Leads to 24-20 Loss to Jaguars

JACKSONVILLE FL - NOVEMBER 21:  Maurice Jones-Drew #32 of the Jacksonville Jaguars breaks out for a big run that would lead to the winning touchdown during a game agaisnt the Cleveland Browns at EverBank Field on November 21 2010 in Jacksonville Florida.  (Photo by Mike Ehrmann/Getty Images)

CLEVELAND BROWNS (3-7) GAME #10 JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS (6-4)
VS.
20 24


If you didn't notice, the beginning of the title in this week's post is a direct comparison to last week's review, which began with, "A Close Finish: ..."

This week, "frustration" is the best way to convey my thoughts on how the Cleveland Browns played on Sunday. I'm still trying to figure out how any NFL team could have a 6:0 turnover ratio most of the game, not give up any special teams touchdowns, and still lose. It's unfathomable, but typical of a Cleveland Browns team that has shown it can't consistently finish in close games. The creativity in the gameplan offensively seems to be correlated with the projected competitiveness of our opponents, something that has prevented Cleveland from building upon leads before the fourth quarter.

Let's get to the review of this week's game, starting with the goats and then the game ball...

Star-divide

WEEK 11 - CLEVELAND BROWNS VS. JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS (COMPLETE GAME REVIEW)

Goats of the Game:

  • The Offensive Line: The whole unit seemed to struggle, preventing Colt McCoy or Peyton Hillis from getting into a groove in the second half. McCoy was sacked six times, and for the first time this season, we saw Hillis hit at the line of scrimmage and gang tackled before he could even get started. More on this in the general thoughts section below.
     
  • Phil Dawson: From trying to kick field goals myself, I know how incredibly difficult it is just to get a 30-yarder through the posts. That's why I had a tough time listing Dawson as a goat for missing two 51-yarders. On the same note though, he is in the NFL, where kickers are expected to make those type of kicks at least half the time. The weather didn't seem too bad. Also, it's not like Dawson doesn't have the range -- he drilled a 58-yarder in the preseason. Dawson needs to make at least one of those field goals to give the offense some points that they were so desperately lacking.

Awarding the Game Ball:

  • Abram Elam: To summarize what I said in the game ball post, Elam's two turnovers especially stood out on the defensive side of the ball. His first came in the second quarter when he intercepted an option pass by Maurice Jones-Drew. His second came near the start of the third quarter, when he stripped Jones-Drew after an eight-yard run, scooped up the football, and returned it for a touchdown. It's too bad none of our other defenders scored touchdowns on their turnovers, because our offense certainly wasn't going to help them.

General Thoughts:

  1. The Right Side: I'm not going to give Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, and Alex Mack a complete pass for the demise of the offensive line against Jacksonville. The big change in this game was the right side of the offensive line. Rookie Shawn Lauvao earned his first start of the season, and right tackle John St. Clair was back for the first time in weeks. The Browns were without Floyd Womack most of the game, who was hampered by a sore left knee.
     
    If Sunday's game against Jacksonville was any indication of what we can expect from the Lauvao-St. Clar tandem, then I don't want to see that group together the rest of the season. Womack is supposed to return to action this week against Carolina, but it is unclear whether he'll be at right tackle or right guard. My guess is that he'll man the right guard position.
     
  2. Missing Cribbs: I took a greater appreciation to what Joshua Cribbs offers the Browns after seeing the game against Jacksonville. On kickoffs, I was baffled by how slow Clifton Smith looked compared to Cribbs. On offense, Cleveland really struggled. If Cribbs had been available, you can almost guarantee he would've been involved in several of those drives-after-turnovers in the third quarter. Carlton Mitchell seemed to replace Cribbs in the blocker role in one-receiver sets at times. My guess is that the defense found that easier to defend Hillis, believing Mitchell was no threat to get the football.
     
  3. McCoy's "Rookie" Debut: This was the closest that McCoy came to looking like a "rookie," which is really just another way of saying he struggled at times. While tucking and running has proven to be an advantage for him at times -- it led to a touchdown flip to Peyton Hillis early on and then an awesome first-down scramble in the fourth quarter -- he seemed to pull it down early a few times and play right into the hands of the pass rush. He also was almost inexplicably picked off when he threw the ball right at the chest of a defensive lineman rather than throwing the ball out of bounds. His first-quarter long pass down the sideline to Mohamed Massaquoi was underthrown big time.
     
  4. Under Two Minutes to Play: This week's "one minute drill" under McCoy was a tougher situation to work with, having to go the entire field with no timeouts. Early on, he didn't lead Massaquoi to the sideline close enough which kept the clock moving. Later on, he threw a pass over the middle to Chansi Stuckey. With no timeouts, unless that ball is thrown at least 10+ yards down the field, you don't even try to throw it. It was thrown at the line of scrimmage, and Stuckey, despite his desperate attempt, couldn't reach the out of bounds line before being tackled. McCoy then had a nice sideline pass to Evan Moore, putting the ball at the 29 yard line with 13 seconds to play.
     
  5. The Final Play: With 13 seconds left, you have to recognize the scenario. Any completion that is not in the end zone or does not get the receiver out of bounds is going to result in the end of the game, because there's no way the team would have time to run up and clock it. McCoy seemed to be well-protected on the play but fired early over the middle to Ben Watson. I'm guessing he hoped he could hit Watson in stride and go a few more yards for the score, but that's difficult to do when the defense is playing back. McCoy's pass was deflected by a defender right before it reached Watson and then was intercepted by the same defender to end the game.
     
  6. The Bad Garrard: This was a weird game for Jacksonville. They are usually hot or cold as a team. This week, they had the "bad" David Garrard -- the one who threw for three interceptions and also fumbled. However, on defense, they looked like a shutdown unit. More times than not, if one aspect of the Jaguars' game is cold, so is the other. As much as I fault Cleveland offensively, Jacksonville's defense played very well.
     
  7. Sick Feeling: After the Browns only scored three offensive points on four straight turnovers in the third quarter, I had a sick feeling in my stomach, despite Cleveland having the lead. It seemed inevitable that Jacksonville would eventually get things together on offense. Before I get to the late defensive collapse, I'll give credit to some more of our defenders.
     
  8. Brown to Ward: I guess we found out a way to get T.J. Ward some interceptions -- he needs a few tips from cornerback Sheldon Brown. On both of Ward's interceptions, Brown defended the pass and Ward grabbed the live ball while it was still in the air. It was Ward's first two interceptions of the season.
     
  9. Rookie Party: After seeing one rookie do it, Joe Haden felt compelled to get his second interception of the season too. Haden had a nice 31-yard return before...ahhhhhh!!! Look out from behind! You know you cringed when you saw Kasim Osgood racing toward Haden ready to hack at the football from behind.
     
  10. Gocong Recovers Two: After having one fumble recovered in his career, Gocong looked like a pro in gathering the ball twice against Jacksonville. He quickly fell on top of the ball when Haden lost it on his interception. A little later, when Ray Ventrone jarred the ball loose from Garrard, Gocong was the recovering player.
     
  11. Jaguars Strike Back: Jacksonville was down by a touchdown when they started their drive with 9:47 to play. They were able to slowly march the ball down the field, eventually getting a 1st-and-goal from the five. On first down, Matt Roth and Shaun Rogers combined for a big sack, setting up a 2nd-and-goal from the 14. After a second down incompletion, the Jaguars were forced into a 3rd-and-goal from the 14 with 3:41 to play.
     
    I felt really good about our chances to win at that point, despite our offensive struggles. I felt that it would be very tough to get a throw into the end zone from that distance, and there was enough time on the clock that I think Del Rio would've opted to kick a field goal. That means Cleveland would've had a four point lead with about 3:30 to go. Instead, the Browns somehow allowed Jacksonville's only threat from that distance, Marcades Lewis, to post up like a basketball player at the one, catch it, and then fall forward for a touchdown. Ray Ventrone was in on the coverage with Mike Adams out.
     
  12. A Little Moore Too Late: It is now borderline irritating that Evan Moore is making huge catches but isn't being thrown the ball until late in the game. He recognized McCoy rolling out on the ensuing drive and positioned himself down the sideline for a 38 yard reception. Maybe I am just way too confident in Moore, but I seriously see this guy being capable of putting up Pro Bowl type numbers as a tight end, or above average numbers for a wide receiver. If there is one player gripe I have this season, it's been the fact that Moore isn't a starting receiver.
     
  13. First Down Needed: After the Moore completion and McCoy's run, Cleveland faced a 1st-and-10 from the 18. Jacksonville had all three timeouts, but given the time on the clock, with one first down, Cleveland basically would have been able to attempt a field goal with no time left. On that drive, I didn't mind trying to grind things out with Hillis again, but I wish the pitch play would've gone to the left side and on first down rather than second down. McCoy was sacked on third down, leaving Cleveland with 2:51 to play and a three point lead.
     
  14. "False Hope Part III, The End": Our special teams unit did a good job forcing Jacksonville to start their drive at the 13 yard line. Things were looking good since Jacksonville had no timeouts left...that is, until the Jaguars connected on a 75-yard screen pass to Maurice Jones-Drew before he was stopped at the one by Joe Haden. At that moment, I felt like I was just punched in the gut again -- it was the same feeling I had after Santonio Holmes' touchdown a week earlier in overtime. Jones-Drew scored a little later with 1:20 left, and Cleveland couldn't retaliate. Ugh.
     
  15. Started With One, Ended With Another: The problems for Cleveland started on offense in the third quarter with the poor play of the offensive line. It ended, however, with the defense then failing to get stops. I know you can't expect them to hold the lead forever, but giving up a touchdown on 3rd-and-goal from the 14, and then basically yielding a 75-yard screen pass touchdown at two minutes to go, within a span of a couple of minutes, is unheard of.
     
  16. Special Teams Tackles: The Browns had nine special teams tackles. Leading the way was Nick Sorensen with three tackles, and Eric King had two tackles. The solo tackles went to Chris Gocong, Titus Brown, Jason Trusnik, and the now IR'ed Blake Costanzo.
     
  17. Negative Plays to Mike Bell: Remember when Peyton Hillis had the awesome 47-yard catch and run in the second quarter? The problem is that after a big play like that, Mike Bell had to come in. He actually ran for one yard, higher than his average, but in the end, it was a wasted play. I'm convinced that if Hillis needs to leave the game for a breather, the Browns should just try a pass play because running the ball with someone else just isn't working.
     
    The next play after that involved Bell as well, on a failed screen pass. Because McCoy didn't get Bell the ball soon enough, Brian Robiskie was flagged for pass interference for blocking early. That set the Browns back 10 yards. Dawson's field goal from 51 yards then fell short.
     
  18. Wright Goes Down: Is it a coincidence that when Eric Wright had to leave the game early that our defense had four interceptions? It was as if Jacksonville couldn't pick on anyone anymore. Joe Haden was beat on a deep, deep ball at first, but he had great recovery speed and was able to defend the pass well.
     
  19. Brownies: Banged up throughout the game, Ben Watson didn't have a catch...Brian Robiskie couldn't haul in a third down slant pass, but McCoy should've fired it sooner...Reggie Hodges continues to punt the ball well...after McCoy's injury, I don't think their is a right or wrong answer as to whether or not Seneca Wallace should have entered the game...however, being without Cribbs, Cleveland could've incorporated some creativity had they involved Wallace somehow.

Next up, the Browns take on the Carolina Panthers. I won't be taking this game for granted, but at the same time I consider Carolina the worst team in football. Cleveland needs to respond after the disappointing effort against Carolina with a tough, well-executed gameplan against the Panthers.

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Just when you think the bad luck has left the building the old Browns show back up and find ways to loose. There were some great plays and some really bad ones. Heartbreaking in the end. Good write up Chris. I am with you 100% about Evan Moore. Why oh why is he not on the field more often? He is huge and should draw double coverage depending on who else lines up. Elam was great. Robiskie is still not producing and I still have my doubts that he ever will. I hope the O-line steps up this week because you know Carolina is watching to see who got run over in Jax and they will make a play for it the same way.

p.s. Please get better Josh Cribbs. You are missed on and off the field and it shows!!

Resident of Believeland.

by browndawgbacker on Nov 24, 2010 10:07 AM EST reply actions  

Did anyone catch Jimmy Donovan with the 6 o’clock news on Monday or the Point After show? I’ve never seen him so incensed at the team. He wasn’t really putting the blame on mangini but i think if Daboll had walked into the building when they recorded the shows Donovan would have outright punched him in the face. Even Grossi on Monday was slamming the offense calling it “primitive” (Donovan did as well).
When your own play by play announcer and the guy timid as a hamster local beat writer shreds your team than you know you have problems.

by sleepy042 on Nov 24, 2010 10:10 AM EST reply actions  

If there’s anything that you can count on, it’s that Grossi is wrong about everything. This wasn’t Daboll’s fault. Not much you can do when your line is getting pushed into the QB on every play.

We really need help on the right side, and the sooner Steinbach becomes a backup, the better.

Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Nov 24, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Disagreed

Brian Daboll is a terrible offense coordinator and I whole-heartedly blame him for the Browns lack of an offensive imagination this past Sunday. There are things you can do when your O-Line is getting bullied and we tried none of those things…..That being said, I do not endorse Tony Grossi OR his reports! lol

by TMONEY8385 on Nov 24, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

he tried it at times, but he should have tried it more. that being said, the way our O-Line was playing, even great playcalling may not have made much difference.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Nov 24, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Kosar made a good point. If the other team can shut down your two WRs with just 2 DBs, there’s gonna be a lot of defenders at the LoS.

I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.

by JustBob on Nov 24, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Part of the reason people can do this is that we don’t run routes to get open with the WRs really. They run entirely too many go/fade routes and to think we could execute the sight adjustments of the run-n-shoot (which we try to do) is laughable.

Get them over the middle and let them run a route with a break in it every once in a while.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Nov 25, 2010 1:12 AM EST up reply actions  

when the guys on the field aren’t doing their jobs, no plays are gonna work.

i do think though that the run was obviously wasn’t working so why not throw, but hey, the passing wasn’t much either…and McCoy just was a little gun shy. He had those same problems at TEXAS, he would be hesitant to get rid of the ball under pressure. It will just take time to mold him into the QB we want him to be.

Every day may not be good, but there's something good in every day.

by allsides on Nov 24, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep, execution was the real problem. It’s hard for the OC to get creative when the players can’t do their jobs. WRs weren’t getting open (we heard “coverage sack” a lot), and we couldn’t pick up the blitz. As said elsewhere, we really saw the value Cribbs brings to the offense. We have nothing more than vanilla without Cribbs.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin

by Spidey on Nov 24, 2010 4:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

One thing that gets neglected is how good of a blocker at the WR position Cribbs is. I think he really opens the field up outside on the running plays.

by Roger Dorn on Nov 24, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I kind of disagree. Clearly the line needed to play better, but Daboll reverted to being awful against the Jags.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Nov 25, 2010 1:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Really? Steinbach is still outstanding at times, and better than most a lot of the time. Unless you’re saying he becomes a backup because we have 2 all-pro guards ahead of him, there are more pressing areas of concern. Yates and Luvao are promising and Womack continues to improve. I don’t think you can have too many quality OLs but I do think its one of our strengths.

From the analysis I saw this week, we didn’t have the proper blocking schemes for the 4 man front running stunts. They weren’t getting out-physicalled, they were exposing gaps in their blocking and Jville took advantage – I blame Daboll for that or whoever is responsible for the blocking schemes. Overall though I think they’ve played really well this year.

by HenryDawg on Nov 26, 2010 6:49 PM EST up reply actions  

It was good planning by JAX. We had a rookie QB (mostly responsible for setting the blocking assignments), and an entirely new right side of the line (lack of chemistry), and St. Clair (lack of talent?).

Teams use largely the same blocking schemes as every other team. You have BoB (big on big, back on backer), zone, and hybrid. Most of the time, most teams use BoB or hybrid schemes.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Nov 26, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, incomplete thought. Most of the setting of the blocking scheme has to be done on the fly, once the defense sets it’s front. Daboll can’t be out there doing this on the field.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Nov 26, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Haden has three picks on the year (Roethlisberger, Sanchez, and Gerrard).

Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Nov 24, 2010 10:16 AM EST reply actions  

Sorry, forgot about the Sanchez one since it was a punt pick.

Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.

by Chris Pokorny on Nov 24, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

You know you cringed when you saw Kasim Osgood racing toward Haden ready to hack at the football from behind.

Ain’t that the truth.
I saw the fumble coming from a mile away. Screamed “NOOO” before it happened.

It’s not a lie if you believe it.

by Brownie's Year on Nov 24, 2010 10:38 AM EST reply actions  

I was yelling for him to hold on to the ball. The funny part was he had it pretty high and tight until the moment before the tackle.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Nov 25, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with what they said on the Point After. Our offense lacked any sort of imagination, like someone decided that since Jacksonville was rated 28th or 29th (I can’t remember which) on defense, Peyton Hillis would simply be able to run all over them. It really seemed to me like our coaching staff got arrogant after beating New Orleans and New England, and playing so well against the Jets. Also, you really have to credit Jacksonville for putting together a great defensive game plan. They knew our O-line was banged up and they exploited it all afternoon.
It’s really too bad that after the defense played so well, the offense couldn’t capitalize on any of the turnovers. If they had, it never would have come down to that 75-yard screen pass to Jones-Drew. I think that if our offense could have turned one of those turnovers into a touchdown, it would have been an entirely different game in the fourth quarter.

by duke4711 on Nov 24, 2010 10:39 AM EST reply actions  

Maybe the reason I’m always such a glass half full kind of guy when it comes to the Browns is that I don’t get STO on my television.

Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Nov 24, 2010 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

it was on channel 3 at 7 pm my friend

by sleepy042 on Nov 24, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t live in Cleveland. My channel 3 is the Athens Ohio PBS affiliate.

Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Nov 24, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

word…..Cat in the Hat at 6 pm Mon-Fri

by sleepy042 on Nov 24, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn’t realize you were a fellow Athenian.

I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.

by JustBob on Nov 24, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not. I’m about an hour north of Athens.

Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Nov 24, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m always such a glass half full kind of guy when it comes to the Browns

This made me chuckle because you seem to be the opposite of this most of the time.

by HenryDawg on Nov 26, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Not at all.

Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Nov 26, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

yep. you’re always one who is quick to share my optimism.

by Dawg Nuts on Nov 27, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

1 minute drill

This whole article and all these comments and not one person mentions that MJD shouldn’t have been tackled on the freaking 1 yard line at the end of the game? Seriously? You guys really thought the Browns (or any NFL team) was gunna stop the Jags 3-4 straight times in that situation? Way to waste nearly a minute and a half there and give your rookie QB 1 minute to march all the way down the field instead of 2 minutes 11 sec….BIG difference right there.

by TMONEY8385 on Nov 24, 2010 11:48 AM EST reply actions  

That particular subject has been very nearly talked to death on this site. Just not in this particular instance. Check out the game thread and the post game thread if you’re interested.

Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Nov 24, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I promise you if we had allowed Jax to score on the first play, people would have called Mangini cowardly and called for his head.

by Roger Dorn on Nov 24, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed, and I’ll never support allowing the other team to score.

1. we could have stopped them and held them to a FG.

2. they’d already turned the ball over 6 times; if you turn it over 6 times in one game, you could certainly turn it over a 7th time.

by Dawg Nuts on Nov 24, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

My initial reaction in the game thread was ‘I kind of wish he had scored there’, but I can find no fault with how it played out. I think you have to go for the stop, even if it did cost us 30 seconds or so.

Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.

by golanbatrac on Nov 24, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ll have to read the game thread. I didn’t see that yet. I’m just saying the defense was on the field the WHOLE game. Half the players just got done chasing MJD 70 yards down the field and you want them to line up at the 1/2 yard line and make a goalline stand 3 times in a row to force a field goal or turnover??? All I kept thinking was how much time we were wasting for McCoy. To golanbatrac: It was more than 30 secs. And to Roger Dorn: I don’t think anyone would have noticed, cared or called for Manginis head if he allowed JAX to score there. It was a waste of time to try and stop them from that close is all I’m saying. My opinion anyway

by TMONEY8385 on Nov 24, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m just saying the defense was on the field the WHOLE game.

actually, Jacksonville barely won the time of possession battle…by only about a minute. this is just false.

Half the players just got done chasing MJD 70 yards down the field and you want them to line up at the 1/2 yard line and make a goalline stand 3 times in a row to force a field goal or turnover

actually, yeah. Its an excellent test for a Defense. a truly stout defense can man up and make those stops.

It was more than 30 secs

yeah, he said 30 seconds or so…stop arguing semantics. just because it was 40 doesn’t mean you should nitpick his comment.

I don’t think anyone would have noticed, cared or called for Manginis head if he allowed JAX to score there.

It is possible that no fans would have disliked the decision to let them score. lets assume that no fans cared. you still have to consider the psychological aspect to the players. these players are taught to do anything to win and make a stop. however, what message does it send to the defense if do this? they feel like the coach doesn’t trust them, they may be filled with self doubt, doubt about the coach, or feel betrayed by the coach. this can cause many problems that can have long term consequences in the locker room.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Nov 24, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I completely agree with your last point. poor message to send in my opinion.

by Dawg Nuts on Nov 24, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

It was a waste of time to try and stop them from that close is all I’m saying.

quitter.

by Dawg Nuts on Nov 24, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess I’d rather be a “quitter” than a loser?

by TMONEY8385 on Nov 24, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

in the grand scheme of a season, Defense feeling like the coach gave up on them>>1 close loss (by greater than I am referring to the negative impact on the season)

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Nov 24, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Winner

They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best

About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback

I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?

by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT

by Villeslgr on Nov 24, 2010 7:41 PM EST up reply actions  

THIS. that was pretty much my reaction too in my mind. I don’t fault them for trying to stop the Jags nor do I fault haden for his tackle.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Nov 24, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, players on defense are paid and they play to stop the other team. If a team lines up planning to give a team a td, that’s a team i don’t want to be a fan of. You line up play d and you work to hold them to a field goal.

They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best

About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback

I understand, as a big daddy come and take my spot type of demeanor?

by mooncamping on May 14, 2010 7:24 AM EDT

by Villeslgr on Nov 24, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I think a team like the steelers says hey we can stop them….that is why they are elite. they are not in the endzone until they cross that goalline, nothing is inevitable…..another fumble? penalty? fumbled snap?

Every day may not be good, but there's something good in every day.

by allsides on Nov 24, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Ugh I hate to say it but the steelers probably wouldn’t have given up 75 yds on a screen pass with 2 mins left.

by HenryDawg on Nov 26, 2010 3:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

This was really the issue.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Nov 26, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

We almost stopped them for -4 yards on first down. If we made that tackle, you would be singing a different tune.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Nov 25, 2010 1:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Also, hindsight is 20/20.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Nov 25, 2010 1:15 AM EST up reply actions  

McCoy get enough work this season?

wow, he did play 5 games, and if he is unable to come back, I hope it is enough work to start next season on the run.

it is odd enough that we’ve had 4 different high ankle sprains(delhomme two), but odder still that all 4 were caused by the guy that Joe Thomas should have been blocking.

McCoy’s injury play was where Thomas and Steinbach doubled down on a insideman, and on the bootleg, McCoy had no chance to get away from the OL. Maybe he wasn’t supposed to be blocked, but seems kinda dumb to ask your QB to do evade an unblocked LB.

Every day may not be good, but there's something good in every day.

by allsides on Nov 24, 2010 2:22 PM EST reply actions  

Yes, on the bootleg fake the run is supposed to constrain the DE/EMOLS. We are supposed to leave him unblocked so it looks exactly like the OS zone play. Teams do this all the time. Sometimes the EMOLS guesses right and it goes for a loss, I believe this same thing happened in the Monday night game.

When a OT blocks down, that usually keys the DE to squeeze the run.

JT did block the guy who initially sprained Delhomme’s ankle, he took him to the ground. Delhomme hitched and held on to the ball so long that he had time to get up and take him down.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Nov 25, 2010 1:18 AM EST up reply actions  

yes, i just wish i could sit in the film room and hear everything they say,discuss…..how many times does one player look bad when really it was another that didn’t do their job….we as fans don’t always get that info.

Every day may not be good, but there's something good in every day.

by allsides on Nov 25, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I am only going by how things are usually coached and what plays look like to me. The vast majority of the time, that is supposed to be the OT blocking down and leaving the end man on line of scrimmage free.

Teams also usually time their routes off of the drop of the QB. When he hits his back foot he should maybe hitch once and then throw. The QB should have already been through his progression and have some idea of what the defense is due to the information he got before the snap and during the drop.

The OL should know the depth of the drop and they should know how long they have to block and where the QB should be.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Nov 25, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I understand why people resent the idea of “quitting” on a play. I do.
Last thought though: What happened to this idea of “playing the percentages” that Bill Bellipuke always gets so much credit for? You really think the chance of the Browns stopping JAX for a FG or turnover was a “high percentage” play?
You can call me a quitter but I think I’m more of a realist. I love the Browns and there was just no way we were ever going to stop them at the goalline. And technically I didn’t quit on the team….I just liked their chances of executing a game winning drive with 2:11 left better than I liked their chances of doing it with 1:00 and no timeouts.

by TMONEY8385 on Nov 24, 2010 2:23 PM EST reply actions  

If he gets on on that play, we have do have a better chance of winning, especially knowing now how that last drive goes….

think abou this, though: I wonder if JAX would have played a tighter D if they knew we had 2 min. to go down the field rather than barely over 1?

I like our chances better with over 2 minutes, because I didn’t see them running the dreaded prevent defense.

Every day may not be good, but there's something good in every day.

by allsides on Nov 24, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

If you want to talk about high percentage, the D was playing a helluva lot better than the offense for the majority of the game, so I think that would make the goal line stand the higher percentage option. Yes, Colt was able to drive down the field at the end of a game, but not get the score. That’s what a prevent defense is supposed to do.

I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.

by JustBob on Nov 24, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually don’t resent the idea of quitting, I would have allowed them to score myself, but it would have been a gusty call and could have put his neck on the line more.

by Roger Dorn on Nov 24, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I have seen other coaches do this. I believe it was McCarthy of the Packers off the top of my head.

by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 25, 2010 1:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I should add, I don’t consider it quitting, I consider it proper clock management.

by Bernie19Kosar on Nov 25, 2010 1:43 AM EST up reply actions  

as a coach you try to do what gives your team the best chance to win….it is not quitting at all, as i’ve heard before, ‘you try to win the game!’ if the coach feels that letting him in gives us the best shot, so be it.

kinda ironic that we cannot tackle the guy for 74 1/2 yards yet finally get him when it actually turns out it would have been better not to!

Every day may not be good, but there's something good in every day.

by allsides on Nov 25, 2010 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

wasn’t McCarthy the guy that was criticized because he DIDN’T let the offense score?

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Nov 25, 2010 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes but that was a different scenario. Letting them score would have given them like a 2 percent chance of winning instead of a 0 percent chance.

by HenryDawg on Nov 26, 2010 3:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

thats very true. I thought he was saying McCarthy did let the offense score. this situation I think was different. plus, our defense has been pretty good statistically against the run in short yardage situations this year, up until the last game or two.

I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!

by bross09 on Nov 26, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

If Womack comes back and plays right guard, that leaves St. Claire at tackle. Jake and Seneca are gonna need a lot of tape on their ankles.

I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.

by JustBob on Nov 24, 2010 3:46 PM EST reply actions  

I think Womack would take RT and whoever was left standing would take RG Lauvao would be my #1 choice.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Nov 25, 2010 1:20 AM EST up reply actions  

That would have been my prediction for Womack as well, but I was commenting on Chis’ prediction in GT #1.

I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.

by JustBob on Nov 26, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I like the way Evan Moore battles for the ball – but you have to notice that he is always blanketed and McCoy needs to get a perfect pass in there to him. We need some receivers who get some seperation as well.

Note to Bill Byrne "Because you aren´t Texas and you´ll never be Texas"

by realmccoy on Nov 24, 2010 6:43 PM EST reply actions  

I think Moore helps McCoy much more than the other way around.

ROHC THE SOHC.

by SpecialBrownie on Nov 24, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

very often Moore’s receptions are jump balls. those don’t have to be perfect throws at all.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Nov 24, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree.

"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by rufio on Nov 25, 2010 1:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Yea, same. A jump ball in the wrong spot will get picked.

by Roger Dorn on Nov 25, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t say they could be bad throws.

"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway

by notthatnoise on Nov 26, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

My complaints about the game are the O-Line, QB and Offensive Coordinator.

I’m not sure whether I would fault OL or QB more for this loss. It’s true that the OL was getting beaten on every other play, but it’s also true that McCoy took too many sacks. The sacks killed us in this game and half of them I felt were McCoy holding on too long. A QB needs to know when his time is up. When the OL is getting beat so often, you just can’t stand there and hold on to the ball.

I also fault the OC for not making adjustments that would allow us to move the ball despite the fact that we had a real battle on the line of scrimmage. We should have used more screens and more timing passes. The lack of imagination during the game has been mentioned already, but I’d like to mention that we could have put Wallace in at any time and let him shake things up a bit.

by 9James on Nov 25, 2010 7:33 AM EST reply actions  

Playbook on NFLN did a good job breaking down why the OLine struggled with a stunting 4 man front. We’ll probably see the same this week so hopefully they learned something.

Daboll is awful at making in game adjustments. Probably why we always lose in the 4th.

Donovan said Moore was only on the field for 3 or 4 plays – that is inexcusable. Sometimes this coaching staff seems just stupidly stubborn.

by HenryDawg on Nov 26, 2010 3:20 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Sometimes this coaching staff seems just stupidly stubborn.

Belicheck tree

his pick sexes put us over the top

by North Coast Flea on Nov 27, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

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