Where is the REAL Josh Cribbs?
by Devil DOG on Dec 12, 2010 4:53 PM EST
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Averaging 21.4 YPR on kickoffs and 8.3 on PR with a season long of 36, eventually we have to pose the question...
WHERE IS THE REAL JOSH CRIBBS?
Before the bevy of intelligent Browns fans answers with "he has been hurt" or "they dont kick to him", please hear me out. Where is Josh Cribbs? What happened after "pay the man"? No-one was a bigger supporter of Joshua Cribbs getting signed and remaining a huge part of this team more than I was but for the first time in his career I am seeing Josh get tackled by the first man to contact him. He hasn't even been close to a big return and I can't for the life of me figure why teams sometimes choose not to kick to him. While this week and a few recently have had some short kickoffs (which I believe had more to do with the wind then strategy). Cribbs has seen sufficient touches to make at least a slight difference. The field position that we were so spoiled with (usually around the 35) last year is relegated to our average starting field position a tad past the 20. Josh gets a touch today on an end around and fumbles the football? How in the hell can Josh Cribbs not beat out "Chauncey freakin Stuckey" as an every down receiver or go to guy on third down? Are we that damned that Stuckey is our look to receiver on third downs...? Seems like it to me...and could you imagine being in that coaches meeting talking about designing third down plays for that kid. WTF? Throw in the fact that Jake Delhomme is a terrible option for us at QB and you have the recipe for a Bills upset in cold conditions where we should have run the ball 40 times. Did Jake even convert a third down thru the air today?? I dont think he did. Why Seneca Wallace isn't playing until Colt gets back is beyond me and will ultimately cost Eric Mangini his job. In my opinion, he needed to get to 8-8 to really make a statement for himself to stay. Brian Daboll could be an even worse play caller than Maurice Carthon (How in the hell does a fullback translate into an offensive coordinator anyway) if that is even possible. Seems to me that play calling shouldn't be rocket science. I mean, I could probably take my son who is 15 and plug him in and just from his Madden Football proficiency could be just as effective. If it's third and 6, then run a route thats 6 yards plus, or throw in the flat with a blocker....hmmm, now that could be an answer. Why is it against the law to run the ball on 3rd and 3 when we average 4.5 YPC and Delhomme cant hit the broad side of the barn with his passes? I am sure many of you are as frustrated as I am but the positive side of all this is that we are one of the least talented teams in the league and seem to be competitve (minus Jake Delhomme) in all the games thus far.
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I was never in favor of giving him a new contract. He signed a contract that HE agreed to, and started whining that it wasn’t enough. Then why did you sign it in the first place?
While I do love him as a player, I feel like he doesn’t have to prove his worth for a new contract anymore. Also doesn’t help his stance that since the emergence of Peyton Hillis, we really don’t rely on him for offense as much as we used to. Last year, from piss poor efforts by DA and Quinn, we needed his help on offense. Not so much anymore. As for as his effectiveness on kick and punt returns, I really don’t know why he isn’t doing well there.
The saga continues.
He signed a contract that HE agreed to
Before he became the best KR of all time, he had a UDFA’s contract. He was giving us Hall of Fame numbers for peanuts.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 12, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Jake is my hommeboy
Ugh.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 12, 2010 10:15 PM EST reply actions
Four dislocated toes, just four weeks ago. OOUUUCHHH. I think we need to keep this in mind.
I am guessing the guy is still in a world of pain out there. Especially out on a cold wet field…
Give him another week or two. I’m optimistic. Cribbs the playmaker will be back soon.
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 13, 2010 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously. Could you imagine trying to run with 4 dislocated toes.
I hate it when guys get on Cribbs about the contract. He has more than earned his dollars in Cleveland. Cribbs is a good man.
A good man with a woman’s haircut.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Way to be a sexist. And no, his haircut is awesome.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 14, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
It hurts just trying to think of running on 1-2 dislocated toes. From what I know about dislocated joints, a dislocated toe may function similarly to turf toe but worse. you may be fully “healed” from turf toe after a week, but the pain may linger for a long time, the swelling will still stay, and you may not get full movement and cutting ability for weeks. Many players have been hampered by this. I believe that dislocation is similar but maybe a bit worse, so its not that surprising that 4 dislocated toes are doing so much.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Some injuries you can play through (with a couple of pills or a shot..) without necessarily aggravating / causing a longer recovery time. I’d be curious if this is the case with a dislocated toe (i.e. is it slowing his recovery by playing him…).
"Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 15, 2010 7:59 AM EST up reply actions
Like I was saying, dislocations in general depend on the case. there are some where you can pop them back in and have almost full motion after a couple days. there are also other cases where the pain and the limited motion can last for weeks. This is why I suspect he isn’t 100% healthy (adding onto the fact that he doesn’t look 100% healthy)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
The biggest concern is that once a joint dislocates it has a propensity to continue to do so. Without reconstructive surgery most joints never return to the same condition they were in originally. Mel Gibson’s shoulder on Lethal Weapon is an example. Yes a fictional horrible reference but it’s the same issue. I say this from experience and having multiple doctors tell me the same.
Resident of Believeland.
by browndawgbacker on Dec 17, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
i think he is even more hurt than we know of and hes just that damn determined. give him another shot after this year. also he has been giving a 150% to learning the wr role, traditionally when that happens a pr numbers fall (devon hester) . but im sticking mainly with the injury the guy is a stud and lets as great clevelanders that we are leave him alone until we are SURE hus better. foot and leg ijuries make it hard to cut the way that man does (like no one ive ever seen) lets support him instead of trample guys
Not the same since the ink was still wet on the new contract – Another in a long list of curses for the Haunted Cleveland Browns.
Seems like that everywhere. Guys whine for a new contract and then once they get it they don’t perform like they did before the new one. Either they get hurt, they get into trouble or they get lazy. It seems rare that they do better after they become the typical overpaid athlete. I admire San Diego for sticking to their guns on those guys holding out on them.
There is a special place in hell for Steelers fans.
It seems rare that they do better after they become the typical overpaid athlete
Your post is confusing, you mention hurt, I would imagine to relate it to Cribbs, but then make the above statement. Cribbs got hurt because he wasn’t the typical overpaid athlete, it’s all the reason he is still going out there, when he should probably not be playing.
One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.
I agree with this. He is going out, when he probably just shouldn’t. Its not like he is sitting on his millions, he is trying to earn his paycheck, but he should just sit on his toes (though that probably wouldn’t help the pain.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
My big question about Cribbs: Has he gained weight? He seems “thicker” than before. I know that even 5 pounds makes a big difference in my sports performance. Cleveland winters will do that to you… stuck inside with all that food around.
Brownsyup
He was talking about having to lose some absurd amount of weight before training camp, I was actually wondering if he lost too much. This discussion usually leads to a 90-post argument, though.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
The Eric Steinbach argument.
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 17, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Injury explains the last 4 games...what about the rest?
Its not just his lack of production, but look at the fumbles. While he hasnt lost any he has 6 fumbles on 35 offensive touches (catches and runs).
Cribbs has never been an elite punt returner, having career numbers that rival Dennis Northcutt in that regard. But his kick returning has been up and down. The fact that he is going on 28 years old and has yet to really find a niche outside of Special Teams (which he doesnt even play anymore) is why i was against giving him a big contract. The guy is a gimmick offensive player and a usually solid ST player… thats it. Not some world beater, not some star we can build around.
he looks better when the rest of our team looks bad.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Dec 15, 2010 5:44 PM EST reply actions
Dennis Northcutt was one of the better return men in the NFL when he played for us…
his pick sexes put us over the top
by North Coast Flea on Dec 17, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
One area where the Browns have been above-average in the post-Kosar days is kick returners.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Dec 17, 2010 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
Wow I actually under rated Northcutts punt return ability (I hadnt looked up the Stats). Looking at them makes me realize Cribbs deserved a raise this past offseason as much as Romeo Crennel after 2008.
Cribbs
2010: 8.2 (15th)
2009: 11.9 (4th)
2008: 8.1 (17th)
2007: 13.5 (3rd)
Northcutt
2006: 11.1 (4th)
2005: 10.5 (5th)
2004: 12.0 (3rd)
2003: 8.2 (21st)
by Justin Kowalczyk on Dec 18, 2010 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
Cribbs got his for kickoffs.
One of the Fins players said he was in complete shock because he thought they were going to crush the Browns. That is just bad coaching if that is the case.
and he got way too much for a KR guy only… because he isnt much of a help on Offense at all.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Dec 19, 2010 3:24 AM EST up reply actions
he is when healthy.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 20, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Last year yes he was. But the NFL is a “what have you done for me lately” league and Cribbs hasnt done much of anything since getting his contract.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Dec 21, 2010 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Would you have gotten rid of Peyton Manning when he was playing like Jake Delhomme?
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 26, 2010 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
you mean when he was a rookie? Or for a 4 game stretch not an entire season? And the answer to both is no for the reasons I stated. Cribbs seems to have a good year followed by an ass year. My biggest concern is if he looked so good last year simply because he was the only bright spot.
by Justin Kowalczyk on Dec 27, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
So the going rate is about $7 mil per touchdown? Cuz thats what he is making this year ( signed a 3 year $20 million dollar deal) and has 1 TD
by Justin Kowalczyk on Dec 21, 2010 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Only 7.5 of which is guaranteed. Most of the $ is tied up in incentives based bonuses, and I am assuming a lot of these are bonuses such as a bonus for a return TD, bonuses for a pro bowl appearance, etc…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
No. no No.
My opinion is that Cribbs has been mis-used/underutilized.
He should NOT be any ever-down WR (as much as we need him).
Coming in for screen passes, special occasions, Flash package? YES.
My hunch is Daboll or someone tried to pull him slightly out of his element and make him what he isn’t- taking the focus away from kick returns, which is clearly his forte.
we need Josh Cribbs focused 100% on special teams (albeit w/some offensive looks factored in).
The TD’s, momentum, special teams tackles and field position alone are an EXTREMELY valuable asset that we’ve missed out on this year.
by discoinferno083 on Dec 15, 2010 9:43 PM EST reply actions
This.
a Delhomme [a·del·homme·] -noun
1. an interception that is returned for a touchdown
2. a useless, drive killing checkdown pass
The problem is if you put him in the game and the other team knows what we are running, that works against us.
He’s got to be able to do enough things that even if you put him in the game, the defense can’t narrow down the plays we might run to < 5.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I’m fine with this as long as it doesn’t affect his ability to return kicks/punts.
I’m hoping it’s all the injury, otherwise it may be that he’s been trying to focus on becoming a WR, which might be a lost cause, in which case, the returning is far more important.
a Delhomme [a·del·homme·] -noun
1. an interception that is returned for a touchdown
2. a useless, drive killing checkdown pass
I agree, returns are where he’s proven he’s all-world and a weapon. I guess my point wasn’t that he needs to be an effective full-time player on offense, just that if he isn’t, he is going to look ineffective out there at times, and he will need to; he’ll need to be a good decoy or he’ll need to relax the other team by being on the field and not making plays.
If every time he steps on the field and the opposing team points out his number and knows screens, end arounds, flash package plays, or “special” things are happening, none of those things will work. If he steps on the field and the defense “knows” a screen is coming, only we throw it deep, that’s perfect.
I think most teams would play normally at first, knowing our personnel but not reacting too strongly to Cribbs. If we then run a Wildcat play for 20 yards, they’ll pay special attention to him. Then we’ll need him to be a decoy. Eventually I think a defense would settle back in to the point where they aren’t reacting one way or another, but they are structurally stressed, which is exactly where we want them.
Of course, this is all theoretical and if we can’t throw it deep or block or complete passes, we’re doomed anyway.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Ok, I completely get what you’re saying now. I can agree with this.
Hopefully the coaching staff is relaying to him a similar message, that is about the returning being priority #1. Well, after he is back to 100%.
a Delhomme [a·del·homme·] -noun
1. an interception that is returned for a touchdown
2. a useless, drive killing checkdown pass
Of course, this is all theoretical and if we can’t throw it deep or block or complete passes, we’re doomed anyway.
Indeed. It’s a shame that the best usage of Cribbs seems to be beyond the grasp of our offensive planners, complications like his injury and our revolving QB cast aside.
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 16, 2010 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
I was unawares we were playing the fake Josh Cribbs.
If he was seriously underpaid in years past, then I think it’s ok that he’s a bit overpaid now. He accumulated his stats for the Browns, so it’s not like we signed him to a big FA contract and he Andre Rison’d us. Or LeCharles Bentley’d us.
I’d have to speculate that teams are more aware of Cribbs, and looking at our other offensive weapons, he has to be a big part of their game plan. If you look at our WRs as a whole, who would you rather try and contain for four quarters, Cribbs or Robiskie. I could guess that teams are more worried about Cribbs, given his track record, than even Chainsaw Massaquoi or Stuckey fingers.
There's a new sheriff in town, his name's McCoy
Chainsaw Massaquoi
This made me choke on coffee a little bit. Good stuff.
Resident of Believeland.
by browndawgbacker on Dec 17, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
I think Cribbs is starting the show the effect of all the incredibly hard hits he has taken on returns. Josh really doesn’t try to make you miss him. He tends to try to go through you. I also don’t see the special teams blocking like we had in past years.Josh needs a seam so he can get up to speed. That usually didn’t happen in the past until he was at the 15 or 20 yard line. Now he is getting his first contact at that point. 3rd I agree with many who say the focus on WR ala Devon Hester has hurt too. A specialist is generally better in most things than someone who is a generalist. My family Dr. isn’t the one who performs surgery. Let Josh be a P/KR and a flash player and draft some REAL receivers.
Let Josh be a P/KR and a flash player and draft some REAL receivers.
I don’t necessarily disagree, but he was starting to develop into a decent WR. He had a few clutch catches earlier in the season. not bad for someone playing the position out of necessity.
I think he’s a valuable weapon on offense, but he should be used intelligently and sparingly. This would allow him to focus on returns and still master what he needs to do on regular teams.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
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