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by Combat Medic on Dec 27, 2010 7:29 AM EST
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Long time DBN follower. I am a native of NE Ohio, but haven't lived there since '03. I'm in the military, and was stationed overseas from '04 until June of this year. It's not easy following your favorite NFL team outside the U.S., particularly when your team is not a perennial winner or big market team. Thank god, I discovered DBN in late 2007 and have been a devoted reader ever since...this has been a welcome oasis from the Browns flotsam that manages to come out of the mainstream sports network sewers. I would just like to say that I appreciate so much all of you Browns fans, from Chris, Rufio, Emily, SB, BB, to the ever-eccentric Mooncamping--even Bross, who has slowly grown on me. I won't waste any more space trying to name everyone, but suffice it to say, if you are a regular poster on here, I am familiar with your (online) persona and appreciate your perspective and input. That said...
I am perplexed by the strengthening anti-Mangini camp I see reflected in the postings here. (This may be a mis-perception on my part, so apologies if I am incorrect.) As someone who primarily knows the post-99 Browns, I see a team now who is more competitive and competent, week-to-week, than any I have ever seen. I still have very vivid images of the 2008 Cleveland Browns [shudder]...not to mince words, they did not belong on an NFL field. I was honestly embarrassed to admit I was a fan! (I still admitted it, don't get me wrong, but I don't normally care if my team is considered "trendy" or "a winner" or "not a total clusterf*&k") That team was an abomination before god and man, and yet, over the past 2 years, the ship has slowly turned around. Not just a slight course adjustment, either. You can say whatever you want about Mangini...he's not "friendly", or he doesn't wow the media (as if that's something to value in a coach--my gosh, that is so important to winning football games!), he doesn't announce his starting QB (because he's had such a reliable #1 option there); the man has done a complete 180 with the football culture in the Browns locker room. I can honestly say that I don't cringe when I watch football games; I know that, even when my team makes mistakes, they will generally look like they belong on the field with their opponent. Yes, even with Mr. Delhomme under center. Because I know you were going to bring it up.
Now, before you confuse me with Mr. Mangini's sockpuppet, let me clarify: I do NOT think he is the greatest football mind ever to coach the Browns. He's not infallible, and he has definitely made mistakes. HOWEVER, I have seen nothing from him to indicate he is anything other than a bright, young football coach with lots of upside, though lots to learn. Why there seems to have been a Cleveland media lynch mob desperate to run him out of town since day 1, I'll never understand. I get that "controversy sells", but, assuming you are genuinely a fan, at some point, you have to root for your city's team to win. Honestly, what do they think we are missing out on by being patient another year?! Coming into this year, I don't think anyone REALLY expected us to make the playoffs...not with Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and (lest we forget) a Bengals team which WON THE DIVISION last year. Yet, because we had some wonderful and highly-improbable wins against top-notch NFL teams, suddenly it's a travesty we aren't preparing for a deep postseason run. (?!) We lost to a Buffalo team with similar talent (away), by a few points; we lost to a division team, with much better talent, the Bengals (away), by a few points. We were COMPETITIVE, and (this cannot be emphasized enough) despite a roster devoid of standout talent and depleted by injuries. The very fact that we could speculate about making the playoffs that late in the season is a testament to the coaching staff--to hold them over the fire because they didn't make them is extremely unfair. We have made martyrs of them, based on their own success! Only in Cleveland...what's the name of that coach we used to have? Belli--someone?
Well, this post is getting a bit long in the tooth, so I should wrap it up. Summarized: 1.) Thank you to all of you DBN writers/contributors/editors/mods, you have given me detailed, heartfelt Browns coverage I couldn't put a price on; 2.) Mangini deserves some patience, because, if nothing else, what do we have to lose (oh my gosh, a losing season? How would the Browns faithful ever cope?!), and what do we have to gain (potentially some stability, and a "system", like a good NFL organization). Remember where we were two years ago, and what was asked of Eric Mangini (rebuild this organization from the rubble of Romeo Crennel/Phil Savage/et al.); 3.) Go Browns, beat Pittsburgh!
4.) It's 4:29 PST, 27 DEC 10, and Braylon Edwards still sucks.
This is a fan-created post. Dawgs By Nature assumes no responsibility for the content listed.
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I agree with your assertions. I believe Mike has to look at the facts. The head coach IS doing his job. The O.C. is pedestrian at best and as far as keeping him, that’s going to be an even tougher decision. Ryan’s unit plays well at times but look at the age of our players on defense (who were brought here to play and help instill a system). As far as Mangini’s draft getting busted on we NEEDED wideouts. The only standout drafted after Mo n Ro, IMO, is Mike Wallace but look at his system. He drafted Mack, and Maiava and Francies still have upside. I see it as being a very good team in the terms of this: we have 60-70 percent of the talent of the top teams in this league as our 1’s. We have exponentially less talent in terms of relieving those guys. Why wouldn’t we keep building?
by 489favegame stat on Dec 27, 2010 10:11 AM EST reply actions
While there’s no way to totally divorce “evaluating talent” from “coaching” in a way that doesn’t render the term “head coach” meaningless, I don’t care if Mangini had a good draft in ‘08. I am quite happy with Tom Heckert calling the shots. (IMO he was the big off-season acquisition, not Mike Holmgren.) Mangini is who I want coaching right now, not worrying about personnel decisions. He may or may not have an eye for talent, but I frankly don’t care; I just want him as coach, not GM.
I realize this is not a popular assertion, but I don’t really have a problem with Daboll. He’s criticized for being too conservative, but then the best games we’ve had featured lots of “trick” plays. I think we forget sometimes that trick plays only work when you use them rarely. My personal feeling is that Daboll is fine; not great, mind you, but adequate for the job. Big caveat to this: I am by no means an expert, and if Rufio or another one of you Subject Matter Experts (SME’s, in military speak…I will probably throw that out there again, so you’ve been warned. We love our acronyms!) can point out how Daboll is a dumbass, I will bow to your wisdom.
Favegame, you make an excellent point about the age of our defense. I have loved the play from TJ Ward and Haden, but in the DL/LB corps, we are rather gray about the temples. I love the leadership we’ve gotten out of Fujita and Bowens, but we are lacking an heir-apparent there. I have all the love in the world for bluecollar guys like Brian Shaefering and Matt Roth, but we need some blue-chip talent in our front 7.
by Combat Medic on Dec 27, 2010 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Just saying some on here bust on him for the ‘09 draft. But if you compare his as to Heckert’s, I think maybe Mangini held his own (I am basing this solely on Hardesty as a reach versus Davis). I didn’t care much for the ’08 draft either.
by 489favegame stat on Dec 27, 2010 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough with the Davis v. Hardesty comparison. It’s hard to evaluate drafts until several years have passed, and having the benefit of hindsight is, well, obviously a huge benefit. I just wanted to make clear that Mangini’s performance as GM is immaterial (to me), I am just grading him as a coach.
by Combat Medic on Dec 27, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Mangini’s performance and input are critical to this team’s success moving forward. Hindsight or not, we have had 2 consecutive good drafts. That IS a benefit GM or HC.
by 489favegame stat on Dec 27, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
Certainly, we cannot afford to whiff on our draft picks once, much less years in a row. I think the Browns 99-on are a graduate case-study in why this is so debilitating to an organization. I do not wish to give the impression I don’t believe Mangini has/should have an impact on the personnel we bring on board; rather, I consider this largely tertiary to his ability to coach the talent we already have.
Give him solid players, and he will put a solid team on the field every Sunday. Whether he puts those solid players on the roster, or someone else does, I could care less. Succinct as I can make it.
by Combat Medic on Dec 28, 2010 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
The point wasn’t made to exalt Mangini’ s drafting prowess, Everyone knows thats moot now. The point was made that I disagree with the detractors that use the 09 draft as fodder for negative Mangini sentiment this year. I’m just a cheerleader. BTW, what is secondary to coaching but before talent evaluation which you described as tertiary?
by 489favegame stat on Dec 28, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Ah, I did not realize what you were driving at.
BTW, what is secondary to coaching but before talent evaluation which you described as tertiary?
Nothing; I used the word incorrectly. “Secondary” would have been the correct term.
by Combat Medic on Dec 28, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
I agree on the draft. maybe we shouldn’t have gotten 2, but they are showing some promise. There is no way anyone would have predicted this out of Mike Wallace. Mike wallace had elite speed, but had a thin frame and not amazing production in college. He was similar to jacoby ford in that way coming out.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
welcome aboard. I appreciate your passion for the Browns.
I posted similar sentiments right after the game yesterday. Mangini is building something, but we can’t expect him to give us the Great Pyramids overnight. The last thing we need to do is continue the shitty coaching carousel we’ve been on since 1999. Stability is key, and he has shown enough to be allowed to continue building.
Thank you, Dawgnuts; I just do not understand why Cleveland (in the media, at least) insists on waiting for the Messiah to come and deliver us, rather than put in the hard work to build a team from the ground up. John Gruden, Bill Cowher, Dungy, et al.—they cannot take our current roster to the Superbowl. No one can. Let’s try giving our head coach the confidence to be assertive, make the call, build his own system, and see how it works. As I’ve said before: what’s the worst that can happen? Cleveland weathers another losing season?
by Combat Medic on Dec 27, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
John Gruden, Bill Cowher, Dungy, et al.—they cannot take our current roster to the Superbowl.
Rec, rec, and again rec.
I am effing hurdling you and you can't stop me.
by JustBob on Dec 29, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Great first post. Welcome aboard. I agree with pretty much everything you say here. I think that the wins over NE and NO got people’s hopes up too high, and raised expectations to a level they really didn’t belong at. If we go back and look at our predictions for the season, most of us thought the browns would end up around 7-9. While we can’t get there any more, those predictions were made assuming KC, JAX and TB would suck, which certainly hasn’t been the case. I think if we were to make our predictions over again knowing how good the competition was, we might pick them somewhere around 5-11, with wins over buffalo, carolina, cinci, and maybe a couple surprises.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
Thank you, NTN, I was searching for your handle when listing posters I follow on DBN; sorry I couldn’t find that particular memory cell :-)
I could not agree more—I was definitely indignant about the losses to KC and TB, until I saw the rest of their season. No shame there, they are “for real” NFL teams, and they deserved the wins. (No mention for JAX because I already believed they had the more talented roster coming into the game, and while I always root for my team, I didn’t expect a win.)
by Combat Medic on Dec 27, 2010 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
I think that the wins over NE and NO got people’s hopes up too high, and raised expectations to a level they really didn’t belong at.
I totally agree with this sentiment.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
On behalf of all DBN posters and readers, thank you for your service to our country.
Mangini should not be evaluated based on where we came from. Crennel was a flat out bad head coach and any average coach would appear to be improvement.
Perhaps Mangini is as good as half the coaches in the NFL. If a proven better than average head coach shows interest in the Cleveland job, we should hire that coach. If not, and a proven better than average offensive coordinator shows interest in that position, we should hire that person. Otherwise, the prudent course would be to avoid upheaval.
Ye damned whale!
this is exactly it. Always take the best option available. Change for the sake of change is not what this team needs, but if a proven NFL coach wants the gig, and has a better resume than Mangini, you have to make the upgrade.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 27, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
“Change for the sake of change” is not a position any reasonable person would articulate (even if that is their motivation); it’s not defensible. I take issue with the idea that there is ANY coach out there who could walk into Berea, take the reins, and put the 2008 Browns in contention within two years. No. Friggin. Way. If you want to argue that there’s a coach out there who can take Mangini’s Browns as they stand now, and contend for the title next year—well, first of all, this better be one heckuva draft!, and second, that’s an admission that the team Eric Mangini has assembled here is solid—perhaps you can make a case, but why go through that turmoil? Just imagine it, a whole off-season dedicated to building the talent on the roster, rather than wondering who will be standing on the sidelines. Crazy, I know.
by Combat Medic on Dec 27, 2010 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
On behalf of all DBN posters and readers, thank you for your service to our country.
+1000
by Bernie19Kosar on Dec 27, 2010 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Many thanks, to you and Elsandito, and everyone else who thanked me. I am not really comfortable with people thanking me for my service. I never know what to say…I spent the bulk of my career overseas, surrounded by other military personnel. We don’t habitually thank one another for our service, except to be funny, or at re-enlistment/retirement ceremonies. I was hesitant to even mention that I’m in the military, but A.) I was having a hard time coming up with a log-in that wasn’t taken, and B.) I wanted to explain why I don’t live in OH anymore, and why I find DBN such a valuable resource . Suffice it to say, I do everything I do for people like you guys, and you don’t need to say thank you, because I have gained so much knowledge and (unbeknownst to you) Browns-fan camaraderie from you. We’ll call it a draw :-)
by Combat Medic on Dec 27, 2010 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
1) Sweet SN.
2) We lost Danvail to the service nad we try to accommodate him when he rarely checks in for a season update. Military posters are nothing new, don’t worry. But regardless of what you may or may have not done, the fact that you had the courage to sign your name where I would not, means the world to my, and hopefully everyone’s, freedom. Thank you.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 28, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
Let me put a spin on saying Thank you. My Military career as an MP during Desert Storm, consisted of Handing over my MRE’s to Iraqi POW’s and checking body cavities for documents and explosives,( yes gross, I know) they just surrendered by the truck loads.
There was one person that we held in higher honor then anyone, that person was our company medic. Any of us idiots could take a life but it took a real man to give it! So from a war veteran, sincerely Thank You.
Our only "Mistake by the lake" was caring what other bucktooth, inbred, unemployed, suicidal, uneducated, depressed, disloyal, rascist burnt out steel towns thought of us!
I respect the guys in the service because I know I don’t have the guts to put my life on the line for my country.
I respect the hell out of the military.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Hypothetically, what if our coaches had the talent in Green Bay to work with? That team is so stacked with talent it’s ridiculous. Shouldn’t McCarthy be run out of town if they don’t win the SB? Now more players are coming out and supporting Mangini. They know what’s up.
by 489favegame stat on Dec 27, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Say Mangini is in the top 14 HC’s out there (at least). He’s got the 28th best team in terms of overall talent. Maybe worse.
by 489favegame stat on Dec 27, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
And please don’t bust on me. I know 16 is half. I just think he is higher.I forget how I have to be so literal on here at times.
by 489favegame stat on Dec 27, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
bross is coming for you.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 28, 2010 2:48 AM EST up reply actions
Crennel was a flat out bad head coach and any average coach would appear to be improvement.
I have a real problem with this line of reasoning. I have heard this argument many times over the past year or so, essentially summed up as, “Browns fans have become so used to terrible, the idea of ‘average’ is an upgrade.”
Now, there is a mote of truth here: upgrading from “awful” to “average” is a step in the right direction. However, implied, but not stated, is the contention that there exists a coach who can skip “mediocre” and go straight to “top of the league”.
Yes. Ruminate about that for a minute.
Terrible team.—>New coach—>Contending for Superbowl?
Get real. There may be some rosters out there who are missing naught for talent, merely the vision to lead them (Bengals?), but this is NOT one of them. Let’s keep some perspective, honestly analyze the talent we have, and give someone the chance to lead us out of the darkness.
by Combat Medic on Dec 28, 2010 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
There may be some rosters out there who are missing naught for talent, merely the vision to lead them
Houston, Tennessee, San Fran, Minnesota, New York G’s…
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 28, 2010 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
I used to like Singletary but man…he messed up.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
He had no experience as a coordinator before becoming head coach and it showed. He should have worked as a DC a few years before becoming a head coach, which would have given him more experience making calls during a game and running a team and prepared him better for being a head coach. If he goes somewhere as a DC for a few years and learns from his mistakes at SF then he might make a good head coach again some day.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 28, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
It’s possible but he’s going to have to stop getting in shouting matches with his players. In the end I think the same things that made him great as a LB might not allow him to be a good HC in the NFL. I would absolutely take a chance on him as a coordinator.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I know. I liked the guy. Plus, when I had madden, I always made him my HC. He somehow was a good HC and was always available in one of my madden games.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
I was a little disappointed about Singletary (at San Fran).
I used to be a fan of the Bears back in the mid 80’s and vividly remember following their legendary ’85 team. IMO Singletary was one of the greatest linebackers ever to play the game, in large part because of his leadership and raw intensity and vision. He was probably the all time greatest “defensive quarterback”.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. -- Vince Lombardi
by burntorangeandbrown on Dec 30, 2010 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
Minnesota has to be the one that sticks out the most. It seems like there are no flaws on that team, and yet…
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 28, 2010 2:50 AM EST up reply actions
The first team that springs to mind for me, too. I don’t really follow teams that aren’t in the AFC, and especially the AFC North, but just looking at the roster—how has Minnesota not won a Superbowl in the past three seasons?! Yikes.
I also was surprised by Singletary’s lack of results. I didn’t think the 49ers were world-beaters coming into this season, but I guess I read enough ESPN fluff pieces to think Mike was a great coach, and that SanFran was on the verge of a renaissance. Well, live and learn. If I cared more, I might review what the local press was saying about him 1-2 years ago and see how right their predictions were. I’m so often amused by the “amazing” hindsight I see in media pundits. Honestly, I would respect them more if they were overly optimistic…any jackass can claim that the current coach won’t win a Superbowl. 31 out of 32 coaches won’t in any given year…oh my gosh, only 3.1% of all head coaches will win the superbowl each year! real ballsy prediction there, champ.
by Combat Medic on Dec 28, 2010 3:18 AM EST up reply actions
What you’ve done here is project me to be one who grades coaches only on their won loss record. I have no illusion that hiring a better head coach will get us to the SB within a year or two. Hiring a better coach will lead to better coaching. It will accelerate the process of getting Cleveland to the playoffs.
That Cleveland has insufficient talent to contend is no excuse for keeping a coach of average talent when a superior coach is available. Superior coaching makes even bad teams perform better.
I wanna go fast
Superior coaching makes even bad teams perform better.
I think we’re already seeing this. More importantly, I think on a team with inferior talent it’s difficult to evaluate coaching for those of us without more access to the team. It’s not impossible, but it’s harder than it is to look at the Vikings and figure out childress is a bad coach.
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools" -Hemingway
by notthatnoise on Dec 28, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Coaching evaluation is about in game management for one. This being in game decisions (playing not to lose) and clock management. It’s also about pregame preparation (preparing game plans and preparing players to perform ((proper tackling, proper pass routes, opening a game with energy and having stamina to finish)) . It’s about evaluating personnel to have a team’s best chance to win and to develop young talent. It’s about getting players to believe in you.
None of these attributes depend upon rostering championship level talent. Perhaps neither you nor I possesses the experience to evaluate coaches, but the trained eye of Mike Holmgren does.
In my humble opinion, one who has observed pro football since 1956, I consider Mangini to be an average NFL coach. Of course I will defer to Holmgren as I could be totally wrong.
But the notion that having a less than stellar roster prohibits someone from properly evaluating a coach is BS.
I wanna go fast
I’m also tired about this crap where we blame assistants. If a receiver runs sloppy pass routes 60/100 times where he could be running sloppy pass routes 20/100 times or less as an acceptable standard, the buck stops at the head coach. He should identify the issue and have it corrected. If tackling is sloppy, he should be focusing on that instead of sneakier ways to blitz defensive backs.
I wanna go fast
I don’t really think the routes are sloppy.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Certainly not in Robo’s case. He looks like johhny on the spot out there. Really crisp and precise. Maybe too much so at times.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
Sloppy’s not what I was after.
I think he knows precisely where he should be and what he should be doing, but needs to unlearn some of that just a bit. To better react to what the DB does and to take advantage of it rather than just hit his marks. To loosen up a bit and be more instinctive.
Dawgs by Nature -- where Hitler, apparently, 'did some good things'.
by golanbatrac on Dec 31, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
The coaching staff said he was being too robotic earlier in his career.
Some of the routes we run like the 2-man concept/stick, scat, and the run-n-shoot routes require the WR to react fluidly and “just play” without overthinking.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
I totally agree with this. With a team liks us or the lions, its hard to tell if Mangini or Schwartz are bad coaches, because they have teams so devoid of talent (but are still both competitive).
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Elsandito, I do appear to have painted you with a reactionary brush you do not deserve. My post is probably better read as a rant against the "fire the coach, it’ll fix everything" idea I see floated by many fans, rather than a reply to you specifically.
I don’t argue against the idea that a better coach will lead to a better-coached team (who could?) Rather, I believe we have more to gain by stability as we build our team than we would from a coaching upgrade. The extreme dearth of talent on our roster negates (to my mind) any advantage we gain from a better head coach (in regards to clock management, or pre-game planning.)
I suppose if you believe Mangini lacks the ability to recognize and develop young talent, or that he cannot get the team to believe in him, then you have a lucid argument for firing him now. I just do not believe that either assertion is correct. Obviously, my opinion has no bearing on anything, and you are welcome to have your own (how generous of me, I know!)
Oh, and I concur that blaming assistant coaches and exculpating the head coach is a non-starter; as you say, the buck stops at his desk.
by Combat Medic on Dec 28, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
It takes a certain amount of time to learn things. That includes (especially) football players. If you fold them in year after year into a consistent philosophy it will take hold much quicker in a rookie as opposed to a one year old system where the vets are still asking “huh”? Win now has been the mantra in the NFL but we don’t have enough talent. If Holmgren fires Mangini now he might as well play monopoly in the dark with mentally handicapped people next year. What do we lose by giving him the third of his four year contract next year. I don’t want to win now I want to be a perennial playoff contender two years from now.
by 489favegame stat on Dec 28, 2010 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
Holmgren is either going to listen to the win now majority or he is going to do what he was brought here to do which is foster/mentor/correct.
by 489favegame stat on Dec 28, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
If Holmgren fires Mangini now he might as well play monopoly in the dark with mentally handicapped people next year.
Amusingly put, agree or disagree!
Never underestimate the powers of Josh Cribbs.
by RelapsingDawgCatcher on Dec 28, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
What we lose is the opportunity to hire a much better coach if that coach is available now. We cannot assume that the same coach or opportunity will be available to us at any time in the near future. What if we had said that Holmgren would make a good president, but let’s wait another year and give our guy more time? Next year rolls around and Holmgren has already made a commitment elsewhere. So, maybe an equally good president is available when we decide we are ready or maybe he isn’t. You take the guy you can get.
I wanna go fast
Kinda like signing Jake Delhomme to be your starting QB.
2010 Official DBN League Fantasy Football Champion.
"There are a lot of Steelers fans around the city so I hope people go to work and kick those Steelers fans.’’ - Josh Cribbs.
by TheDriveStillHurts on Jan 1, 2011 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
I understand your point, and it is a good one—if you assume there is a much better coach to be had. I don’t think there is one, at least amongst the candidates I’ve been hearing suggested. What metric do we have for rating any given coach better or worse than another? W/L records aren’t terribly convincing to me, unless the sample size is very large. (They may be convincing to you, I’m not saying I discount them out of hand.) Personally, I think after one more season we will have a much clearer picture on Eric Mangini’s abilities, given a chance to build his system.
by Combat Medic on Dec 29, 2010 7:03 AM EST up reply actions
is no excuse for keeping a coach of average talent when a superior coach is available
I totally agree with this, but I am not sure if this applies.
First: Are we sure that mangini is only average?
Second: Who is this “Superior” coach out there? Maybe Cowher, but that is it I can think of.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
You the man Mr. Medic. Thanks for your service and hope all is well.
It’s not a lie if you believe it.
Hardly. Just a guy who has a slightly unusual job…no big deal. Thanks for being a Browns Cleveland fan, despite all the reason not to! I love our city, and anyone who fights for her.
by Combat Medic on Dec 27, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you for entertaining my dumb football ravings. You know, it was probably a year from the time I started following DBN and the time I watched “Major League” again, and realized the significance of your name. I had a serious “AH HA” moment, I felt like such an idiot. I mean, c’mon, you even had a picture to help my retarded ass! I still occasionally look at your name, then glance at your avatar, and say, “oh yeah—from Major League!”
by Combat Medic on Dec 28, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
I knew it would be the height of rudeness not to include that, somewhere. Because he does, and we owe it to society to let them know:
Braylon Edwards STILL sucks, and it’s 8:08pm PST, 27 DEC 10
by Combat Medic on Dec 27, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I forgot to mention: everytime I see your avatar, I laugh. I know the backstory for you using it, but still…there’s nothing in the world that can excuse Phillip Rivers for EVER making that face, even for a second. Too. Effin. Funny.
by Combat Medic on Dec 27, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Awesome.
Also love that I was mentioned. Brought a smile to my face.
ROHC THE SOHC.
by SpecialBrownie on Dec 27, 2010 10:12 PM EST reply actions
I have LOL-ed at many a comment by you, so I’m glad I made you smile.
by Combat Medic on Dec 27, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve been reading a lot of your comments in other posts. You have some great input and an intelligent discussion style. Great to have you here Combat Medic!
by Monsters of the Midway on Dec 28, 2010 8:10 AM EST reply actions
Welcome aboard. I totally agree on giving Mangini a chance. He came in and inherited a team with such a pitiful level of talent (then again, he helped that by trading away K2 and BE but those moves look smart in the long term now IMO). Halfway through the season last year, the team was considered by the PD, the worst team since expansion. There was also significantly more talent and upside on the horrible 1999 team compared to last year. people seem to be forgetting the state of this team when mangini signed up. Even if you told me we were getting H&H, I would be still very surprised by the competitiveness of this team if you talked to me 12 months ago.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Good perspective on everything bross.
2010 Stats
Kellen Winslow 63 receptions, 702 yards, 5 TD’s
Ben Watson 61 receptions, 696 yards, 3 TD’s
Braylon Edwards 1 DUI, 1 bad beard, still dropping passes and criticizing other wide receivers (on his own team) for doing the same.
by Monsters of the Midway on Dec 29, 2010 3:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yep. I pointed out that I thought those deals looked good in the long run. BE has been better on the field, but he is maybe even more of a distraction off the field. Plus, we are getting K2 production at a fraction of the price. in fact, when you consider defenses played and how much the team throws…K2 should be destroying watson. Adjusting for SoS and the amount that the player is on the field, Watson has been significantly better.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Intensive Purposes? I could care less...
your whole argument is a fallacy!
Interesting. At the time, I was sorry to see Winslow go; I loved watching him play. I was ambivalent towards Braylon leaving, and quickly came to rejoice in it.
by Combat Medic on Dec 29, 2010 7:06 AM EST up reply actions
I liked Winslow and was initially upset about the trade as well. I never lumped him in with Edwards as I thought he always gave 100% on the field. After a few days and hearing about his contract demands though I was fine with it. Six years is too long for a guy with his medical history.
Ben Watson coming along this season just makes it all the better.
by Monsters of the Midway on Dec 29, 2010 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
I’m late to the party, but welcome and thank you for the compliments :D
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